#like dont get me wrong whats happening is a horrific human rights violation

[rebellum]

>see post saying something shockingly bad happened but that also seems suspicious because its not really something that can be enforced on a large scale

>google it

>situation is so different it's the same as saying a lake is literally the pacific ocean because they're both water

[boreal-sea]

#but what would you call the many palestinians held under 'administrative detention'?#that is- without trial?#why do we have such a need to legitimize abuse when its committed by a state?#i mean#i think i would consider many of the prisoners of guantanamo bay as hostages of the usa#i would call what happens there as a pretty inhumane and horrible thing to do#and also i dont think what weve seen of israel on the international stage has demonstrated them being beholden to the law#it just doesnt seem like you're making a good argument for why we shouldn't use the word hostage in cases of state oppression#and i dont think the distinction makes a meaningful difference#because why would the israeli govt care what words we use when we speak up against their oppression of palestinians?#you think theyll hear us out if we simply call them prisoners?#im sorry if this is all over the place#im not here to write an essay or 'prove you wrong'#i just dont get it#the whole question of what is and isnt legal seems irrelevant when states like the us and israel blatantly disregard human rights#and constantly violate international laws

They're still "legal prisoners". It's fully possible for abuses to be legal AND for them to be atrocities. It's not difficult for me to see both of those things as true at the same time. America has a very long history of legalized abuse. Slavery was legal! It was an abuse of human rights and it was legal. The immigrants the US is holding at the border? Technically, they are also being "legally detained". That doesn't make it less horrific that some of them are literal children, that they're dying in detainment, being kept in cages and treated as animals. And like you said, Guantanamo Bay is another legal atrocity the USA is committing under the full blessing of the law.

Like I said. Lots of heinous shit is "legal" in the country it's happening in. Other countries might disagree, but that's a whole different nest of hornets.

That's why I think "is it legal" is an extremely important question - because if it's legal, you're dealing with a form of oppression that has been codified into law, which personally I think takes the abuse to a whole different level. State-sanctioned abuse is a whole different type of atrocity. An atrocity being legal doesn't make it less atrocious, and in my opinion, often makes it more disturbing. A government using the law to abuse people needs to be called out as such. You can't yell at a government that you think they're doing something illegal, because they can just point at the literal laws in their country and say "nuh uh".

I think it's important to differentiate different kinds of prisoners, because I think it does harm to all prisoners to pretend they're all the same.

There are legal and illegal prisoners.

Legal prisoners are technically, by law, being held legally. You may not agree that they got a fair trial, and it's absolutely fair to look at these systems and go "you are abusing the law to arrest, charge, convict, and imprison people unfairly. This may be legal, but it is inhumane and unethical". But you can't call this out if you ignore the fact that technically, those prisoners are "legal", because you're trying to call out a system of abuse that has been codified into law.

But we also need to be able to differentiate a codified system of abuse from illegal prisoners like human trafficking victims, kidnapping victims, and hostages. "This prisoner is a hostage and their life is up for ransom in order to manipulate someone else, which is not only illegal, it is an incredibly inhumane and unethical thing to do to a person. All hostages are innocent, and all hostages are in immediate, life-threatening danger because the people holding them are not beholden to any standard of law".

If you call all prisoners hostages, you're not going to get very far, because the legal system you're trying to critique will just shake its head and say "we're not holding illegal prisoners, they went through our court system and were convinced, this was all legal".

And if you treat hostages like legal prisoners, you legitimize terrorists and kidnappers by pretending they have some kind of legal right to be holding their victims. They do not. No one has a right to kidnapping and ransom.

[bestworstcase]

Hey, me and my friend are developing our own Tangled History Lore the involves the Saporians, and in our instance, Demanitus helps Corona take over Saporia by stealing Zhan Tiri’s created memory wand and wiping their memories of the invasion except for the Saporians who helped Corona.

Now, Saporians have grown up with no history of the past other than small events, barely care about their heritage, and are still somewhat against Corona.

So what would happen to the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, who may have been previously allied with Saporia, if they found out Corona and Saporian treasonists took over and wiped their memories

so if i'm following, corona rapunzel's returned the entire nation of saporia and all of saporia's allies ~two thousand years ago when demanitus and zhan tiri were still kicking around and this massive magical conspiracy then went undiscovered for however long—i assume until around the time of the series itself?

which. hm

backtracking a little from your actual question i think it would be worth taking into consideration the limitations of the wand of oblivium—bc in rapunzel's return it's shown that the wand is powerful but can't really be used on a wide scale: the saporians managed to wipe the memories of the coronan king and queen, and being generous perhaps a handful of other aristocrats and important courtiers whom we just don't see on screen bc they're not necessary to the story, and then just relied on the coronan culture of absolute obedience to the king to control the rest of the populace while waiting for varian to figure out a potion that could... either directly reproduce the effect of the wand on a dramatically larger scale or else somehow serve as a conduit for disseminating the wand's magic to many people at once. (personally i think the latter solution was more likely what the goal was, i.e., clementine uses the wand to curse batches of varian's potion and then they suffuse the water supply with the potion or start gassing people with it or whatever the method of distribution ended up being and the curse is transmitted through the material of the potion—but that's a tangent)

so

the question is how did demanitus and his coronan conspirators get around the problem of the wand needing to—as rapunzel's return implies—individually curse every single person whose memories the caster wants to alter? conquest by brainwashing is arduous to the point of impossibility if you're trying to do it one person at a time, esp. when it's possible for cursed people to fight off the magical amnesia with support from loved ones whose memories are intact. and then add to that it being a wand he stole from zhan tiri and his own self-admitted unfamiliarity with magic—this is the man who shoved his soul into a monkey with a spell he knew he barely understood after all—and theres the additional problem of did the coronans even know what they were doing the way a real witch like clementine or zhan tiri would?

and then all magical considerations aside you have the further complication that massive conspiracies are difficult to pull off simply because they require a lot of people to be in the know to make things happen, and you start running into the two-can-keep-a-secret-if-one-is-dead principle. stuff gets out

ANYWAY

this is cynical but assuming there is indeed a two thousand year gap between the memory wiping and then modern day corona, in line with the canonical timeline of tts—which i recognize is not necessarily a reliable assumption with an au but you didn't specify—i honestly dont think a lot would necessarily change if the brainwashing was retroactively discovered somehow. bc by now the hegemony of the seven kingdoms in a world where saporia doesn't exist is well established and... people in power cleave to the status quo. what's going to happen to this sprawling trading alliance if we take corona to task for this enormous violation of human rights that happened literal thousands of years ago? when saporian culture was eradicated so thoroughly that it might as well not ever have existed? who benefits from tearing this system apart now, and who benefits from leaving things as they are and shrugging at past wrongs? (it's so much easier to just say well... that was a long time ago... oh well.)

except for, of course, the saporians themselves, because it was their identity and their home and their culture that was utterly stripped from them—they lost everything, and even the knowledge that they'd lost anything at all was stolen from them too, like, it's hard to fathom a scenario where this information comes out and doesn't lead directly to outrage and unrest from whatever saporian communities are still left—how else can one even respond to something like that?

and from there i mean. it depends on where you want to take the story and how you want to handle it, like, theres a lot of variables beyond "corona did this horrific thing x centuries ago and now we know about it" that could or would shape the direction of events subsequent to the conspiracy being broken up to—like assuming all other things being equal how do zhan tiri and cassandra and the moonstone fit into this, with zhan tiri being (i assume) a saporian sorceress whose work was stolen and then used to eradicate her home? how does varian's partnership with the saporian separatists go when theres this underlying element of them just doing to corona what was done to their ancestors in a desperate bid to maybe scrape back together some semblance of a cultural identity for themselves? how does rapunzel—who has herself run afoul of saporian memory magic, albeit accidentally—feel when she learns this about her nation's history and what does she do about it? etc etc etc and then all these individual character decisions have ripple effects that shape the broader societal and political responses there's not a one size fits all answer, here. it's dependent on the specific shape and structure of the story itself

[womenofcolor15]

ASAP Rocky's Jail Petition Drama! Folks Remember His Ferguson Comments & His #FreeFlacko Situation Is Above Them Now

Celebs and fans are rallying behind ASAP Rocky, who's currently sitting in a Swedish jail for assaulting someone in the streets. However, folks remember when he turned a blind eye to racial injustices happening here. More inside...

Rapper ASAP Rocky (real name Rakim Mayers) is currently sitting in a Swedish jail after he was involved in a street brawl in Stockholm earlier this month. Now, his celeb friends are boycotting, signing petitions, and calling out injustice in his defense.

  Stand in support and request Rocky’s release from Swedish officials! Sign the petition and join the movement at https://t.co/Yapx5a29of #JusticeForRocky pic.twitter.com/HNFVmwUDNi

— A$AP MOB (@ASAPMOB) July 9, 2019

  A petition demanding the Harlem rapper's release from a Swedish prison was launched by his Hip Hop collective, ASAP Mob. They allege he has been denied the right to fair representation and that he's being held in "inhumane conditions." He filed an appeal on Monday (July 8th), but it was denied, so the Swedish court ordered him to spend two weeks in pre-trial detention while police investigate the incident.

  ASAP Ferg responds to people reaching out about ASAP Rocky: pic.twitter.com/7eZvuXCnb3

— XXL Magazine (@XXL) July 9, 2019

  The petition has over 370,000 signatures at the time of this post.

Several of his famous friends have vowed to boycott Sweden until ASAP's release. Rappers T.I., Tyler The Creator, Schoolboy Q, The Game, Post Malone, Lil Yachty, and more are holding their homie down via social media:

        View this post on Instagram

                  Rappers #TylerTheCreator, #SchoolBoyQ and #TI are boycotting Sweden following #ASAPRocky’s arrest over a street brawl. Sweden’s Supreme Court dejected ASAP’s appeal today despite his lawyer’s plea that the rapper is not a flight risk.

A post shared by TheYBF (@theybf_daily) on Jul 8, 2019 at 4:41pm PDT

            View this post on Instagram

                  I stand with @feliciathegoat & @asapferg & will not perform in any venue in SWEDEN until @asaprocky is FREE #injusticeanywhereisathreattojusticeeverywhere

A post shared by The Game (@losangelesconfidential) on Jul 9, 2019 at 3:19pm PDT

            View this post on Instagram

                  Always strive and prosper. Love you very much #justiceforrocky

A post shared by @ postmalone on Jul 9, 2019 at 10:56am PDT

            View this post on Instagram

                  Link in bio sign sign sign #justiceforrocky

A post shared by FaZe Boat (@lilyachty) on Jul 9, 2019 at 12:58pm PDT

    Free @asvpxrocky!!! We targeted all over the world shit crazy pic.twitter.com/MYDdywRj5H

— Tity Boi (2 Chainz) (@2chainz) July 9, 2019

  "Power" star LaLa Anthony joined in on supporting ASAP, but ended up getting dragged for posting up the #FreeFlacko petition:

        View this post on Instagram

                  #LaLaAnthony posted up a petition to #freeasaprocky, and ish went left quickly. Commenters basically said that since ASAP “couldn’t relate” to Ferguson and didn’t feel the need to stand up for black people facing injustice because he’s not Al Sharpton (all of which he said in a #TimeOut interview), folks said they can’t relate to him being locked up in Sweden either. It’s above them now.

A post shared by TheYBF (@theybf_daily) on Jul 9, 2019 at 6:05pm PDT

So, why are folks mad?

People haven't forgot about the time he turned a blind eye to racial injustices a few years ago. In 2015, ASAP made some comments about Ferguson and the #BlackLivesMatter movement that rubbed people the WRONG way.

In the Time Out interview he said: 

“Let Kendrick and J. Cole deal with that sh*t,” he retorts. He starts rapping from his record, moving his hands while swooshing through the room on his board. He goes into the song “Dreams,” spitting, “I just had an epic dream like Dr. King / Police brutality was on my TV screen—I specified ‘TV’ because I was in London. Why would I feel compelled to rap about Ferguson? I’m not about to say that I was down there throwing rocks at motherf*ckers, getting pepper-sprayed. I’d be lying. Is it because I’m black? What the fuck, am I Al Sharpton now?” He halts the electronic skateboard and looks me in the eye. “I’m A$AP Rocky. I did not sign up to be no political activist. I wanna talk about my motherf*ckin’ lean, my best friend dying, girls, my jiggy fashion and my inspirations in drugs. I live in f*cking Soho and Beverly Hills. I can’t relate. I go back to Harlem, it’s not the same. It’s a sad story. I gotta tell you the truth. I’m in the studio, I’m in fashion houses, I’m in these b*tches’ drawers. I’m not doing anything outside of that. That’s my life. These people need to leave me the f*ck alone.”

  Black Twitter is letting him HAVE it:

  Fuck that nigga asap rocky Im too busy being black in the Bronx to give a fuck about him lol I dont be out there in sweden so thats none of my business

— Juliana King (@Electrickseoul) July 10, 2019

    When unarmed black men were being murdered at the hands of the police, ASAP Rocky was out here like “I don’t wanna talk about no Ferguson shit I don’t live over there, I live in SoHo, Beverly Hills, I can’t relate.” Now look at him

— ashh (@ashhhhlorenn) July 10, 2019

    Lol @ y’all feeling bad for ASAP Rocky who gives no fucks about black people, our issues or all the wrongfully convicted black men sitting in prison. Y’all fucking kill me man

— newilson (@jameswxlson) July 10, 2019

    See when you do clownery, clownery comes back to you . I don’t live in Sweden either beloved . Be easy #ASAPRocky pic.twitter.com/CyHswbbM3Q

— Tierra (@tntcheeks) July 10, 2019

  The online petition alleges ASAP is being held in "inhumane conditions," which include him being locked down in solitary confinement in unsanitary conditions.

On Monday, July 8th, we filed an appeal with the Swedish Supreme Court to have Rocky released from the inhumane conditions and the clear violation of human rights. They rejected the filing, which means Rocky will remain in prison for two weeks. The conditions of the facility are horrific. Some of the inhumane conditions Rocky and his colleagues are facing at the Stockholm Detention Center include 24/7 solitary confinement, restriction of amenities for the most basic of human functions, access to palatable and life sustaining food as well as unsanitary conditions.

TMZ also reported ASAP was being held in a cell next to someone with "severe mental issues who slams his head against the concrete wall and hurls feces every which way... feces that are not cleaned up." A source reportedly told them he was being made to sleep on a yoga mat with no blanket, drink water that was not clean, and had only been given an apple to eat each day during his first five days at the prison.

However, that may or may not be the case.

  here are the "inhumane conditions" where #ASAPRocky is being held ... bruh #TMZ is always spreading false rumors pic.twitter.com/XWHPr7XntW

— InMillyRockINewYork (@RaptdHoe) July 9, 2019

  Fredrik Wallin - the governor of the prison where the rapper is being held - refutes the description of the facility that has been released in the media.

“The Swedish Prison and Probation Service has a policy not to comment on individual cases or prisoners,” Wallin told PEOPLE. “However, we can refute the picture of prison Kronoberg which is described in the article in TMZ. To exemplify, prison staff and prisoners drink the same municipal tap water.” 

Wallin said prisoners at Kronoberg normally live in cells that contain a desk, a bed with a mattress, and a TV. He said the prison was renovated in the last few years, with all the prison cells being reconstructed, leaving the prison in "good condition."

"I have no knowledge on any current diseases in the remand prison," Mr Wallin told Newsbeat.

In fact, Swedish prisons have been considered the model prison system.

Thoughts?

Photo: DFree / Shutterstock.com

[Read More ...] source http://theybf.com/2019/07/10/asap-rockys-jail-petition-drama-folks-remember-his-ferguson-comments-his-freeflacko-situa