#kyman meta

[kymantruther]

cupid ye was more kyman than it was style

seeing as south park episodes aren’t gonna come until march, this gives me the time to talk about cupid ye…which i’ve wanted to after the episode came out but i figured i wouldn’t have enough time to. so i really planned this analysis to be after all the episodes were made for s26…but again seeing as they’re on break, i took my chances.

so this is the perfect time for me to talk about cupid ye and how the episode always read more kyman than style to me. this may sound absurd considering the episode phrases stan and kyle’s relationship in a romantic way, but i find that’s all it extends to. let’s review the episode for a bit so i can elaborate. sure, the phrasing implies some sort of romance between stan and kyle, and there’s even a scene where stan is stammering and love struck when kyle talks to him. But we don’t ever see stan act upon this. notice how throughout the entire episode stan NEVER confronts kyle about how he misses hanging out with him? i see people call kyle a bad friend for “ditching” him, but it’s a notion i never got. stan never said anything to kyle about it, kyle’s not a bad friend for wanting to have fun with someone else, it’s not ditching in the slightest (unless you’re going to try and actually imply kyle belongs to stan and should only be around him 24/7). how was kyle supposed to know stan felt this way? he was having fun with tolkien, kyle’s suddenly villain for having fucking fun??? i can only blame stan in this situation because all he did was avoid the problem and act like it didn’t affect him (when it did).

even at the end of the episode, he only confronts tolkien not kyle. this just signifies to me there’s a clear communication problem in stan and kyle’s friendship. for an unknown reason, stan doesn’t want to address things with kyle. with this fact in mind, that scene where stan is nervous to talk to kyle at lunch suddenly doesn’t look so cute anymore, in fact, it demonstrates a legitimately problem of stan’s.

it’s no wonder stan and kyle’s friendship is breaking off, stan can’t even discuss his feelings with kyle. he does nothing but mope around and feel sorry for himself when he could literally fix the problem if he talked to his super best friend.

but opposed that to cartman in this episode. what does cartman do in the episode when he realizes he did something wrong? he acts. he realizes he’s gone way too far with the rumor about kyle running hollywood and he actually does something about it. sure, stan can stand in front of kyle to protect him (which tolkien did too so even that’s not a style moment lol) but cartman’s the one who forced cupid ye (arguably himself) to take his meds to save kyle.

cartman got kyle in this mess but he got kyle out of it.

and let’s talk about the initial synopsis for the episode too.

the synopsis says cartman is jealous. watching the ep, it appears stan is jealous, and he is. so why would it say cartman is jealous? because cartman is projecting. cartman ordinarily doesn’t care if stan and kyle have a fallout, actually he typically relishes in them. but that’s only because he gets kyle to himself (ex: assburgers, cbaa). but this time, tolkien and kyle hang out. so cartman takes stan’s jealousy and acts like he’s doing it for stan and his friendship with kyle, but in reality he’s doing it because he’s jealousy. just as the synopsis says.

and i don’t think it’s a coincidence cupid me, cartman’s gay conscious, is in this episode about cartman being jealous of tolkien and kyle’s friendship. in their valentine’s day episode at that ;).

so to summarize, it’s incredibly surface level to say this episode was style. this episode was kyman to the core and just furthers the theory that cartman is in love with kyle.

[rx-aysgl]

On Kyle's Side: My Personal Take on Cartman And Kyle's Dynamic From Kyle's Point Of View

This is a four part essay in which i explore Cartman and Kyle's relationship, focusing primarily on Kyle's perspective. As said, i have broken it down into four different parts titled:

Sense of Identity

Martyr Complex and Competitiveness

Cartman

Their Relationship

There will be an extra chapter where i will make some additional commentary.

Hope you guys enjoy.

1. Sense of Identity and Selfishness

In the show Kyle is always concerned about “doing the right thing”, at least that's what he likes to tell himself. Though in reality, he is extremely selfish when push comes to shove and the reason for that stems from his constant questioning of his own identity and his stance in things. This makes him come off as rather inconsistent in a lot of ways. As a result, Kyle feels very lost. So what does he do? He decides to base his opinions and feelings and thoughts off of his environment because his own existance overwhelms him so much (eg. the "Tooth Fairy Tats 2000" episode). This puts him into this vicious cycle where he keeps getting lost even more due to not being able to pinpoint his own frame of thought and latching onto the external world that consists of many different people who have found their own way in life who also keep changing constantly and thus leaving all kinds of contradicting impressions on him. Throughout the series we see him try to change his apparence, religion, even his personality for the sake of fitting in (this also correlates to his martyr complex which i will get to). He creates this moral code for himself that he conditions himself to stick to in order to find his own identity and feel a sense of belonging but the sheer inconsistency of said moral code causes him to come off as indecisive, sometimes as a people pleaser and sometimes a hypocrite.

His defiance of a stable frame of mind pushes him to act on instinct and his momentary emotions while his refusal of self-acceptance causes him to distance his true self from others he considers close to him (Stan), hence the selfishness. It makes sense because how could someone get close to another when he can't even make peace with his own identity?

The reason i am mentioning this is to point out that since Cartman is so extreme in his beliefs and deliberately commits so many evil and selfish deeds, Kyle is obsessively drawn to him because it is so easy to call out and oppose him. Their polarity makes Kyle feel a sense of self he doesnt allow himself to truly make peace with and sugarcoat how fucked up he can be just like all the people in South Park that have wronged him but not enough to channel these feelings into. Cartman keeps Kyle grounded. Just like basically every other kid in the show, Kyle has done terrible things but he is so concerned about being right that he has to have Cartman by his side to make him escape from his own inner conflicts by reflecting it directly onto Cartman, the one person he is actually much more similar to more than he likes to think but he can only subconsciously acknowledge it.

2. Martyr Complex and Competitiveness

Another very essential aspect we need to pay attention to is Kyle's martyr complex. Kyle feels the need to not only to do the right thing but also to “sacrifice himself” for it. He is so self righteous to the point that not only does he not acknowledge his own flaws he also thinks he has to be and is some kind of heroic figure to others (eg. "Ginger Cow"), though this is more subtle compared to the other aspects of his personality.

The martyr complex causes Cartman to be seen as an even easier target than he already is and Cartman is more than willing to exploit Kyle for it hence feeding his very own complexes. They mutually feed off of each other to the point they are obsessed with each other and need each other. I would also like to point out that Kyle often shares some of his most vulnerable moments when Cartman is by his side in a suprising way (eg. choosing to stay by Cartman's side in the "You're Getting Old" and "Ass Burgers" episodes as an escape from Stan's depression at the time, crying with Cartman in "Kenny Dies" etc.) and vice versa. Though this is hard to notice on Cartman's side because Kyle conveys his vulnerability via confusion, sadness and desparation whereas Cartman does so via anger, jealousy and revenge.

3. Cartman

Cartman chastising Kyle like this most likely stems from how he believes Kyle was the catalyst to how fucked up he turned out to be due to his constant agression and bullying towards him in the earlier seasons, where he was mostly just a spoiled brat and nowhere near as bad as he is now. His pent up fury leads Cartman to also feel an extreme amount of envy towards Kyle with the reason of Cartman being a little more capable than Kyle at recognizing how him and Kyle share many similarities (being very emotionally driven, selfishness, neuroticism, stubbornnes, a habit of denying their own mistakes) who is in full denial of it on a conscious level. Cartman does try to get closer to Kyle and also the rest of his friends and seek their validation in the earlier seasons but as time goes by he realizes more and more that Kyle does not get the same treatment as him regardless.

Therefore, Cartman blames Kyle for his suffering and takes it all out on him in various disgusting ways because he thinks that Kyle deserves all the terrbile things happening to him.

It is very important to take into consideration how abhorrent Cartman's upbringing was and how influential it is to the way he feels towards Kyle. All of his childhood; he was raised with all kinds of abuse, neglect, extensive bullying and was depraved of almost all positive emotions. The result of this is Cartman ending up percieving positive emotions in a very traumatized, distorted and disturbing way. With this gradual build-up and "Scott Tennorman Must Die" being his breaking point by spreading fear to all of South Park and feeling an overwhelming amout of attention on him that he craved so much, Cartman ultimately comes to the conclusion that he can only and only validate himself by inflicting negativity on others. Independent from being conventionally "positive" or "negative" emotions, post-Scott Tennorman Cartman correlates all of his emotions to seeking attention and asserting himself as much as he can in means of a defense mechanism and in means of validating his own existance. His real feelings are filtered through a broken perspective, of which are conveyed intensely to the people he feels strongly about like Kyle or Liane.

How this all comes back to Kyle lies in the fact that Cartman also "benefits" from the way Kyle caters to his own problems via their seemingly very polarized relationship, not only does Cartman keep Kyle grounded as mentioned but Kyle does keep Cartman grounded as well.

At this point, their individual vicious cycles have become one, a constant play of cat and mouse; with both of them unable to differentiate which one is which, ever chasing.

4. Their Relationship

Describing their feelings towards each other as solely hate wouldn’t do justice to the times they tried so hard to keep the other in their lives (eg. the "Smug Alert" and "Skank Hunt" episodes) not only for the sake of just existing in each others lives or keeping in touch etc. but also to keep each other in their individual loops they are in, of which they cannot maintain with anyone else.

As a consequence Kyle and Cartman’s mutual obsession with each other leads them to go such lengths as saving each other multiple times. However, since there is a perpetual competitiveness between them due to Cartman's evny towards Kyle and Kyle's insatiable need to prove himself to be better than Cartman, they simply cannot stand each other’s happiness, especially if it involves someone really close to them, like a partner. Cartman ruining Kyle's potential romantic relationship with Nicole in "Cartman Finds Love" and Kyle trying to ruin Cartman's relationship with Heidi in "Doubling Down" and Kyle being unable to appreciate Cartman finally changing his ways for good and having a loving relationship and family in the Post Covid specials are all examples of both of them selfishly trying to involve the other in their own issues they should be able to deal with on their own, only have they not been such self absorbed people.

Their rivalry brings out the best and the worst in each other and they both know deep down that they are just like each other and they both hate it and feel an odd sense of comfort in it. That is exactly the reason why they simply cannot stand when the one of them goes on to have a happier life than the other. Not only do they feel as if they have lost some kind of battle but they also feel abandoned when it happens.

Extra Thoughts:

I find their relationship to be extremely complex and honest to god it has my multi media overthinker ass climbing up the walls and shitting furnitures. They are my favorite characters in the show and analyzing both of them was such treat to me. Due to some things i have mentioned in this essay especially on the last chapter, you can interpret some of them in the same vein as some kind of shipping subtext, even though this essay is essentially written in means of sheerly exploring this dynamic as it is. I honestly like keeping things really ambigious without necessarily categorizing relationships as romantic or platonic but if written properly i can enjoy both renditions of this relationship.

In order to clarify some things, i can enjoy romantic kyman ONLY AND ONLY in the condition of Cartman bettering himself over the years. I know it would be really difficult and may seem impossible to most of you but i find it an interesting and challenging story to think about and create content for. I believe that Eric is forever gonna stay as an asshole and i do not expect him to become an angel in the future. However I also think of him to be a really traumatized 8 year old, who is a really fucked up product of his really fucked up environment, a child who is smart enough to learn to be a better person, especially to those he values as his friends if given the proper opportunity. I do not think that their relationship will ever be a conventionally and classically an ideal one, especially from an outsider's perspective but Kyle and Cartman (and the entirety of South Park's cast) are both very far from being ideal human beings in the first place. At the end of the day, relationships can be very complex and unhealthy in real life, they always come in different colors and shapes. It is okay to explore a relationship in fiction without thinking it is the ideal relationship or the relationship you want to have in your own lives. It is okay to explore a relationship because it is interesting and well-written. This is what media literacy is all about.

As a disclaimer before some dumbass ship discourse happens, there are ofc some lines not to cross like the romanticization of inc*st, p*dophilia, r*pe and things like ww2 aus and shit btw. That being said, if you cannot separate fiction and reality to the extent i talked about in the previous chapter, this is your stupidity. Stop making it everybody's fucking problem.

anyways im gonna be extra deadass rn if someone gave me a 100k word long collage au that is written properly i would eat that shit up like theres no tomorrow. it doesnt even have to be romantic i just want more of them they are so interesting 😭😭😭 they also funny as fuck so the 2012 yaoi becomes even funnier. what a great dynamic godzamn 😭😭😭😭

Thanks for reading!!!

[roostertuftart]

I saw someone say the other day that style would never work because Kyle needs someone that challenges him and

1. Idk where you got the idea Stan doesn’t challenge Kyle because oh boy does he

2. Also like. Idk? Challenge him how? Fight with him? It’s fine if you like kyman or whatever but Kyle is a really insecure character who CRAVES having people stand by him and support him. If anything, having Stan support him more (and vice versa Kyle supporting Stan) is what their relationship needs to work, not someone who’s gonna fight with Kyle and give him a hard time constantly/leave him to fend for himself more

[numbknee]

Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: South Park Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Kyle Broflovski/Eric Cartman, Kyle Broflovski & Stan Marsh Characters: Kyle Broflovski, Eric Cartman, Stan Marsh, Kenny McCormick Additional Tags: Relationship Problems, Secret Relationship, again...barely secret lol, Aged-Up Character(s), Kissing, Making Out, Fear of Discovery, Friendship Problems, Canon-Typical Antisemitism, Arguing, Relationship Negotiation, kyman has taken over my life help Series: Part 3 of i'm with stupid Summary:

Kyle and Cartman struggle to keep their relationship a secret, yielding less than favorable outcomes for everyone involved.

(inspired by this post from the lovely @victimized-martyr because GOD the meta is so damn good 😭🙏)

[victimized-martyr]

do you have any bitterness towards style shippers? since you mentioned you don’t like shippers that harass other shippers

nah. I have bitterness towards assholes that make a habit outta harassin other ppl— i don’t care whether if they ship style or not. That’s not to say I don’t notice the majority (or at least a vocal percentage) of style shippers tend to be antagonistic towards kyman shippers. So, I am wary when I come across someone who says they like style. but in my experience, there are many styles who also ship kyman or are just chill.

I’d much rather come across someone who ships style and we simply agree to disagree, and talk about other aspects of the show, because there’s so much to appreciate and laugh abt sp. Or, happily discuss our point of view!

[cheesy-poofs]

Why Kyman?

This was a long time coming, so I decided it would be fun to touch upon some of my feelings on this ship Its mostly because its the ship I decided to stick with and I'm not a huge shipper in general. Honestly I didn't ship anything for most of the time I watched the show. Style, Kenman, Bunny, ect. never appealed to me because I thought they would work the same as friends (not that I have anything against those ships). Cartman and Kyle are a different story, though.

These are my feelings as of now, and are always subject to change. This is less of a meta post, and I mostly made it to think through some of my feelings about Kyman and some other ships. I touch upon some controversies lightly. This is not meant to be a discourse post, however.

Well, let's proceed. I wrote this all in one sitting, so its not well-thought out or anything, I might clean it up later or specify things better but in the meantime, I'm posting this raw.

First off, I'll touch upon how I ended up getting into it.

As for when I realized I loved Cartman and Kyle's dynamic a lot, it begun in the episodes "Tonsil Trouble" and later on "Cartman Finds Love" which made me appreciate the humor of the ship. When I finished watching the show, I thought it would be fun to look into the different ships of the fandom and decide what I liked. This actually begun with Candy (Cartman x Wendy) because I enjoyed their episodes and thought they were funny. But something felt like it was missing in that ship; it just didn't feel like there was enough there, and my interest in it was short-lived.

Then I came across my first Kyman fic, and if its not evident, I ended up really liking that fic...and reading a ton more Kyman fanfics and falling deeper into this ship. I don't read fanfics anymore because a lot of them don't quite capture the characters in a way I enjoy, but it did lead to me obsessing over Kyman and rewatching most of the episodes about them.

Then I made this account. I lurked on here for a while but I think I started actually posting on Stan/Trey's birthday. I was happy to see a lot of other people who still enjoyed Kyman, let alone South Park. I didn't touch social media during my first binge of the show, save YouTube or sometimes Pinterest. I also had no friends who liked South Park at the time, which was part of the reason I made a Tumblr in the first place. I wanted somewhere I could actually see people who were as obsessed as I was/am.

This was when I learned that Kyman was controversial. Honestly, I never thought of Kyman as "Nazi x Jew" because I didn't define them as characters purely based upon that. I never really saw Kyman as a wholesome ship either, but I kind of liked that aspect because its a fucked up relationship on both ends. They're just fictional characters who often do really fucked up things because apart of South Park's humor is kids doing things they normally don't do. That's why I roll my eyes at people trying to argue which ships are "abusive" or not because it doesn't matter. They're not real. You can have distaste for ships or be uncomfortable with Kyman because of the nature of the ship, that's fine. But its really not as bad as people make it out to be; not inherently.

Recently, I've reconsidered my feelings about Cartman, but that doesn't ruin Kyman for me because, at the end of the day, I ship them purely for fun. I don't take this show that seriously. I also don't get people trying to argue that Kyman is less tropey than other ships because its honestly just typical "Enemies to Lovers" (which isn't a bad thing, but let's be honest with ourselves, its a huge fandom trope). I have no issues with people shipping Style even if its not my thing, and I'll admit a lot of Kyman shippers have this weird superiority complex. I probably used to, but I try not to come off that way anymore. When I say Kyman is the most interesting ship to me I try to make it clear that its only my very subjective opinion. I'm biased because its the first ship I latched onto, and I still enjoy it a lot and find comfort in it.

So to summarize some of my current feelings; I think Cartman is (obviously) a horrible person, and I think people try too hard to soften him up or make excuses for his actions. I enjoy people going over why Cartman is the way he is now, yes, and I think Cartman is a really damaged kid and I get sympathetic of him sometimes myself. He's my favorite for a reason, he wouldn't be the same character if he wasn't awful. But even if I've been a bit of a "Cartman apologist" myself, I've come to accept that he will likely always be awful, and that's fine; that's by design, that's his purpose in the show, and I love him for it. I think people feel guilty for liking Cartman when there's no reason to, just because you like him doesn't mean you're okay with his actions. There might be some dumbasses who idolize Cartman, but they probably shouldn't be watching South Park anyway. Let's not forget what kind of show this is:

I don't like it when people try to exclude Cartman either, because South Park would be nothing without him. I think about "The Death of Eric Cartman" a lot and how it shows that the boys could leave him anytime, and Kyle even admits that he knows Cartman thrives off attention (ironic since Kyle tends to give him a lot of attention, its a big reason why Cartman is so obsessed with him). My point is that the boys still choose to hang out with him despite it all, because they actually don't hate Cartman completely. Yes, they do sometimes, and they'll obviously say that they don't care about him, but often their actions show the opposite. Either way, he's a very significant part of the show, and I do not want to see the sanitized show other fans want this to be.

I don't think Kyle is quite as bad as Cartman (however I would argue Cartman, Stan, and Kyle are all huge assholes and deserve each other). Regardless, it won't stop me from shipping Kyman because I purely like the way they work off of each other, and I personally only care about Kyle when he's paired with Cartman. That's why Kyman is my only Kyle ship.

I thought this post would end up being longer, but I think I touched upon most of my thoughts. Remember, this isn't exhaustive, nor is it definitive. I essentially try to look at Kyman from a neutral perspective, acknowledging both of their faults while also not taking it too seriously, especially given what show we're watching. They're both interesting, layered, and morally questionable characters with a lot of episodes I really like. That's the gist of it.

[bunbun206]

Convert me into Kyman it confounds me but I an intrigued. I understand it yet I'm confused. /gen /pos

I might not be the best person to ask this. A lot of my enjoyment of Kyman comes from the fact that I think as a duo they’re really funny and I enjoy their antics when they share the same goal. There’s other things I like about Kyman like i feel like they need each other to heal I guess. I’m particularly drawn to the idea of obsession and being obsessed with someone but not knowing why that I feel like Kyman embodies well. But I’m not a super big analyst and I wouldn’t be able to properly convey to you why I exactly like this ship. I think @victimized-martyr and @numbknee has some great Kyman meta stuff that I think is worth checking out.

[north-park]

... just saw a very bad """""""meta""""""" like damn kymans really watch the show with salami over their eyes

[stankyler]

how is it not a red flag to you that your friend that you've interacted with for less than a year has alienated and harassed so many people who use to be her friend or people who disagree with her interpretations on the show. Remaining ignorant will not do you favors.

this is batshit insane.. i’ve also stopped talking to a lot of the same people because personally, i don’t like how they act! we dont “alienate” people for “disagreeing with interpretations,” we cut them off because they’re dicks about it.

i’ll tell you what i’ve seen in my few months active in this fandom again. i’ve seen ella willfully involve herself in one controversy; she expressed dicomfort over an au that highly fetishized cartman’s abuse of kyle. and i know it’s fetishized because the creator has claimed to ship kyman and personally, having that context (especially as a jew,) feels incredibly fucking icky. ella had every right to do this. that isn’t “different fandom views,” that’s an issue of genuine discomfort. after i expressed support that she spoke out, roostertuftart, who i’m sure you’re here on behalf of, booted me from her discord server. but no, we’re the one’s doing the alienating.

every other thing i’ve seen her get shit for has been the direct result of other people harassing her for her harmless interpretations. i have not ONCE seen her say anything like “masc kyle is an F Tier Take” or “people who disagree with my kyle interpretation are morally reprehensible.” both of which have been said about her harmless headcanons! and so she creates a long and well-constructed meta discussing exactly what canon material she uses to support her headcanon, because she’s passionate about it! but since everyone who disagrees with her thinks this is some kind of fucking playground battle they start going “oh she’s being passive aggressive” “she hates anyone who disagrees with her takes” as if it’s about you?

in regards to the callout post, yeah she could’ve done better. but even then, conflating the act of sending an nsfw fic link (which unlike fanart requires you to click that you’re old enough to see it AND to put in the effort to read it) in a channel that had minors in it with “interacting sexually with children” as if it’s real life fucking grooming is absolutely low. ella has clearly learned, as i know for a fact she actually goes out of her way to avoid interacting with minors online.

all the while ella has been very supportive of my opinions, even when they’re different from hers! she has shown me more kindness and patience than ANY of the people who claim to be on the side of internet safety, or claim to be above this “circlejerk” mentality they keep accusing us of. which- by the way rooster should understand is simply not the case, given his stated reason for getting in the aforementioned au debate was that he wanted to defend his partner from slander. but when we want to defend our friend it must be because we’re a clique right? get it straight.

the amount of anons i’ve gotten vaguely threatening that i shouldn’t trust ella because she’s a fugly slut but have not given me any proof of this “harassment” she apparently does is STAGGERING. and quite honestly, i find that to be proof enough that the people who so vehemently hate her are incredibly fucking childish. GET A LIFE!

[enbystankyle]

hii i have only started watching sp this year so i am very new LOL i am trying to draw more so hopefully expect art hehe, any 20+ enjoyers lets be besties!!  and its fine if you follow but i dont feel comfortable interacting with anyone under 18 other than art/ meta reblogs 🙏

i enjoy meta about the show, character analysis, and i have been stricken with stankyle illness, but i enjoy other ships too [but pls dni if you like kyman] 

[kymantruther]

cartman when kyle is subservient: ginger cow’s mischaracterization of eric cartman

south park’s “ginger cow”, season 17 episode 6 is honestly quite the er…interesting episode. but despite it’s rampant fart humor and what not, it’s still a goodie, especially in terms of comedy. (idk something about kyle saying “can i please i your piping hot farts in my mouth” makes me laugh every time.) but in terms of characterizing kyman’s dynamic….? that’s where it falls flat.

the episode ignores cartman’s relationship with kyle—particularly regarding kyle’s natural “fighting spirit”. when cartman does or says something nasty, kyle is the first to call him out on his bullshit, granted he’ll only do it if he personally doesn’t agree with what he’s doing (cbaa) but none the less, you can admit kyle often criticizes cartman. and you know how cartman reacts? yeah, he fights back. and it’s key to recognize what cartman does when kyle fights back at him. why mention this? well obviously people aren’t flat—they feel emotions and can be flippant; my case in point being there are times where kyle doesn’t call cartman out on his bullshit and “let’s him win”. let’s take “mr garrisons fancy new vagina” episode 1 of season 9.

in this episode, kyle tries out for the basketball team, whilst cartman hurls beforehand that jews can’t play basket basketball and obviously kyle fights back.

Cartman: This is ridiculous. Jews can't play basketball. Kyle [points right at Cartman]: I beat out YOUR fat ass, Cartman! [a referee's whistle is heard]

but as kyle plays, he isn’t exactly the best. and even his coach reaffirms cartman’s previous statement. this leaves kyle feel hopeless…

Cartman: Nyanyanyanyanyaaanyaaa! You-hoo-hoo-hoo loh-ost! Hahahahahaaahaaa! [No response. Cartman can't get a rise out of Kyle] Kyle, I'm totally ripping on you at a totally inappropriate time. Kyle: I know. I deserve it. Cartman: Yeah, you know why? Because Jews can't play basketball! Kyle: You're right. [this disarms Cartman completely, and he walks away] Cartman: Jesus, that's no fun.

Interestingly enough, as soon as kyle forfeits and doesn’t put up a fight cartman spits that, “it’s no fun”. it’s a clear departure from how cartman reacts to kyle, with the only difference being kyle didn’t fight back. i think this statement alone shows that cartman enjoys the fight with kyle, as the quote reads “he can’t get a rise out him”

and by the way, kyle being subservient to cartman is different to cartman getting his way with him. taking imagination land for an example, kyle ultimately sucking cartman’s balls didn’t come immediately. in fact cartman actually draws the time out when he thinks he’s won. cartman chooses to actively relish the moment by listening to kyle complain, he dresses up and teases him about it (ball famished anyone?). it takes a very long time until kyle sucks cartman’s balls, and the only reason cartman could enjoy it as much as he did was because kyle put up a fight. it’s kinda like the phrase “boys like the chase.”

but in “mrs garrison’s fancy vagina” cartman wins very easily, kyle just agrees with cartman and doesn’t provide any argument or anything. as much as cartman likes to win, it means nothing to him if kyle didn’t fight him before he did.

it’s clear cartman enjoys kyle’s stubbornness, and it’s even stated and addressed in “smug alert”. quote,

Stan: You know, Cartman, you may be stoked now, but I bet you're gonna find that without Kyle around to rip on, your life is empty, and hollow.

and the episode straight up proves stan right with cartman feeling that butters, who is subservient to everything cartman throws at him, is a “lousy jew” because he didn’t have the fighting cadence like kyle. cartman thinks initially he can replace kyle but it’s clear he can’t; nothing can satisfy cartman than kyle fighting back at that moment. so you know what cartman does.

he risks his life to save kyle.

it’s something he didn’t even have to do (and the fact he doesn’t even admit to it???) but it just shows how much he cares about not only his entertainment, but kyle in general, to the point he could die trying to get them back. the truth is, cartman can’t live without kyle around. he likes how kyle has fight in him, and imagination land also as a goodie that advocates this.

when someone dies, often someone who was close to them will start admitting stuff as they pass. they’ll start saying how they feel about the person, who they think the person is etc etc. and obviously south park isn’t immune to this, i mean not only is this a common trope, it can enhance how sad a death scene is. so when in imagination land (2), when kyle is sworn to die, cartman admits something interesting…

Cartman: Godammit Kyle, you never walked away from anything in your life! Now fight! [smacks Kyle around] Fight! Fight! 

cartman claims kyle “never walked away from anything”, which of course refers to how frequent kyle bickers back. but it’s interesting cartman brings this up. something that ordinarily would be seen as an inconvenience that opposes him (fighting back) is being regarded as something good, like it’s something kyle should be proud of. the fact cartman confesses this on kyle’s death bed really proves how kyle having that stubbornness is very important to cartman.

so tldr: we can come to the conclusion cartman really likes it when kyle fights back and it’s very important he does.

so why did i say all of this? well because in ginger cow, kyle reacts a bit differently to cartman’s tricks. beings an avid peace lover, when the world has world peace kyle has no problem letting cartman er…fart on him for it.

now i don’t have any issues with how kyle is protracted here, actually it aligns in his character, because we can all totally see kyle doing something dumb or extreme to have peace in the world. but the way cartman is portrayed…

he basically relishes kyle’s servitude. and if you take everything we learned about cartman so far, this is WILDLY out of character. if cartman was characterized consistently in this episode, he would bail the fuck out if kyle started being like “ok yeah sure fart in my face.” like he’d be so turned off, he wouldn’t indulge in that shit at all. now if kyle fought the fart thing it would be different, and cartman probably would’ve enjoyed himself a lot more, the the fact is kyle didn’t and cartman was ok with that??? like who tf are you and what did you do with cartman.

it pretends like cartman didn’t risk his fucking life just to rip on kyle again and have him fight back. like that guy is unhinged for it, and to act like that shit never happened is insane people talk.

like atp you could’ve replaced kyle with butters and i’d believe it; butter is a lot more passive with cartman and cartman likes to have butters listening to his every word. like the episode would’ve been so much more believable in terms of dynamic.

so in summary, ginger cow is funny but it’s not funny enough for me to ignore its blatant mischaracterization of my guy cartman 😩

[ouchmaster6000]

South Park is funny, you shouldn't ban it.

@weirderworld10 @south-park-gifs @southparkdigital @southpark-gifs @green-alien-turdz

@kickstheclown @weedle-testaburger @madame-helen @nabasart @south-park-dimensions

@south-park-fanart-archive @south-park-meta @cartmanbrahofficial @ericcartmn @rraspberryramen

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@ladyybuuggg @fennecfiree @cielsiesta @zuoschlecht @buttfrovski

@crimsondawnstan

@style-and-kyman @urspopinionsareshit @behind-the-blow @binonana @squeege-chomp

@2x2equalsu @wendyisamazing @whatdoessunshinetastelike @toms-rhinoplasty @lamerandgayer

@broflovski-aligned @princessmarionette @candyunicornsateme @imaginationlandtrilogy @igotcredbitches

@styleyaoi @kyles-afro @rhirhidamiengurl666 @smarshley @rockshrimp1989

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@dawn-of-the-posers

a few anons are concerned about this because of the political opinions expressed in the show and held by the creators. these are valid concerns and i want to see opinions to make sure this page is comfortable for everyone!

there is currently one sp character in the queue, i believe, and i’m not sure when they’re scheduled to be posted. i’m not going to take that character out (i’m currently out of town and have just enough scheduled to get the queue through the flight home), but any south park submissions after that will be deleted and ignored just like hp, hb, and hh if that’s what’s voted on.

[theoncomingchaos]

Future Cartman Theory

Cartman has been queer coded for so long on this show it’s pretty undeniable that he isn’t completely straight. I mean there is an ABUNDANCE of evidence to show that he has sexual interest in men; for example, his obsession with getting Kyle to suck him off (Imaginationland) or finger him (Anal probe), the notebook drawings in the game of boys he knows fucking (including several drawings of Kyle), and his experience with cupid me where even his mother’s reaction suggests that he was exploring his sexuality through masturbation (Tweek & Craig-literally done as a beautiful parallel between LGBT kids who have supportive environments and the struggles some individuals still face with their sexuality). These are also, of course, only some of the more blatant examples. 

So, that being said, why the wife and kids?

Honestly, just because he has a wife and kids doesn’t mean he is magically suddenly straight. If anything, it seems even more like a desperate attempt to try and convince himself that he is straight while still struggling with old obsessions and natural urges. (This tendency of trying to fit in and be what others want is also something we have seen him do many times, the most obvious example being when he destroyed his dolls (queer coded interest) to “grow up” like the others said to do.) 

A lot of his relationship seems to be a mixture of his ongoing obsession with Kyle and his desperate need to fit in. Finding a Jewish woman and living a life fully committed to the religion is somewhat like “having your cake and eating it too.” He gets to be straight, normal, and have a “perfect family” through a female and therefore “normal” and safe version of Kyle. 

The reason behind this interpretation is that he is constantly getting sexual with her in front of Kyle, even continuing to fuck her knowing that Kyle can hear them and going so far as to mix in bits of the Jewish faith into their sex talk. In many ways, going beyond using her as a stand-in for Kyle, to crossing the boundaries and bringing Kyle into their sexual relationship. Even all of the lovey dovey scenes with the kids are basically in front of Kyle and or involving Kyle directly.

It’s a show. It’s classic performative Cartman.

Sure, maybe someone could say he just wants to show off how he has the life Kyle should have had, and it’s all just his usual power play, but if that’s the case, why get so sexual about it? If i’s just ordinary rivalry, why not talk more about his new faith, his success with the synagogue, or even about his moral growth (things Kyle would care about and actually be jealous about)? Because as we’ve seen over and over again, part of his obsession with Kyle is sexual. 

At the end of the episode, the idea of going back in time and changing things, going on adventures with his friends like old times, even the whole “someone needing to finger Kenny,” made Cartman feel that he was getting all too close to opening up that box that he’s been trying so hard to keep locked up and buried. If he were truly confident in his new life, wouldn’t he feel comfortable enough to go on the adventure and even explain his concerns to his friends? Wouldn’t he perhaps even believe that he would be led back to his family no matter what? Why run away? If he’s so scared of losing them, it would make more sense to stay and sabotage Stan and Kyle- something Cartman would know full well and be fully capable of doing. The problem is, he can’t because being with them brings back too much of who he really is underneath everything he tries to be. It reminds him of what he really wants, and how different and wrong he feels because of it. 

Not that I ever expect his story to canonically show this struggle, but the subtext has always been there, and I don’t think it is going to go away. Most likely, the group will find a way to go back in time and that is how they will be friends again and have learned a lesson from the pandemic. 

[numbknee]

y’all I’m like.... in shock about how good "cupid ye” was. holy shit. rambling and spoilers under the cut!

first of all, I can’t believe the fans were right about a valentine’s day ep and also tiktok being a centerpoint way before any details of the ep were announced lmao. y’all manifested that shit good for you!!

biggest thing I wanna say is that this was a cartman meta GOLD MINE. like... canon just confirmed that cartman takes meds for psychosis!! I feel so validated for headcanoning him as schizophrenic (and I know a lot of other ppl did too). this would also potentially be another reason as to why cartman is so fat compared to the other kids: a major common side effect of antipsychotic medications is weight gain!! esp with drugs like clozaril or zyprexa. yes we see that he often overindulges with junk food but his meds could 100% be contributing to his appetite!!! gahhh my med student ass loves this shit so much

and can I say that I LOVE that cartman is able to fight back against his own psyche by confronting cupid ye at the end!! he DOES have self awareness! he DOES have a conscience goddammit!!! he’s able to recognize that he’s been off his meds, that his delusions are becoming dangerous, that he’s hurting his friends. and even though it all went to shit he only started interfering because he was sad for stan like 🥺🥺🥺 he fucking cares you guys!!!! i’m so proud of him!!!!! 

but of course my kyman truther ass also interpreted it as cartman being jealous too and subconsciously recognizing that if kyle hangs out with stan more again, he’ll also be hanging out with cartman again since they’re in the same friend group. he can’t ask kyle to spend time with him directly because he’d 1000% suspect cartman is up to something so getting him back in the group through stan is probably the most effective way he could have done it. he’s a smart kid y’all.

ANYWAY that’s enough rambling for now. ‘twas a good episode. maybe I’ll make a better detailed post about interpreting cartman as having schizophrenia (and how it influences his current and potential future relationship with kyle) another day

[victimized-martyr]

3, 5, and 9 for the salty ask list

3.Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

not over an opinion, nah. I like following a variety of ppl w/ varying opinions on a character, ship, or take on the show. I’m a slut for perspective like that. I have unfollowed over ppl’s temperaments tho. Like if they’re an ass who insists a ship is superior to others, or is rude all around i’m like. Bye lol.

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?*

I wouldn’t say it’s ruined it for me, but Kyman has this weird rivalry with Style so it’s hard to separate that from Style works or when discussing dynamics. In the meta I’ve found, Kyman or Style, there’s a bitter regard for the “opposing” ship?? like for kyman it’s “Kyle is less empathetic towards Stan, he’s a bad best friend, whereas Kyle is all over Cartman” and for Style it’s “Kyle’s emotions leave him vulnerable to manipulation and bad influence by someone like Cartman, Cartman is heartless and would never care for Kyle like Stan could”. It’s also tiring to see fics where Style is part of the story and everything becomes like a novella. Bro I just wanna laugh and have my ships be funny, what is thiiissss can’t we all just get along?!? Why’s there gotta be this fight over Kyle? I don’t wanna have to be like “Ugh. look everyone, it’s Style” or have that assumption placed on me simply for being a Kyman shipper ;-; i’m just vibin yo.

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

Ohh sis I greatly dislike Randy. I tolerated him in the early seasons and then everything went downhill from there jfkfkfj. It’s strictly personal preference. He shares a lot of qualities with Garrison and Cartman, Stan too later in the show, so it’s weird that I enjoy their characters but not Randy’s. He’s missing something in the secret sauce for me. Maybe it’s the fact he’s attracted to animals? Or maybe it’s his mustache…

[roostertuftart]

This meta was sent to me during a argument, and while disagreeing with this opinion, I couldn't line up my thought to why. I want to hear ur opinion on this since you're a Kyle fan like OP and has a lot of meta posts about him. thank u for reading this post and sorry for my bad english! https://curiouscat.live/ginzura/post/1191543937

First of all, no need to apologize for your English, and it’s perfectly legible regardless! I’m going to paste the OP’s exact words here because I don’t know exactly how CuriousCat works and I don’t want to original text to get deleted so no one can see what exactly I’m arguing against, so here it is below: 

Ask: What do u think about those ppl who say  shipping kyman is bad bc you’re shipping a jew with a nazi 🧐

Answer: good question! if people really believe that then i can't blame them for not wanting to have anything to do with kyman, however my interpretation is different. buckle up cause this is gonna get kinda long though....

so first of all, cartman is without a doubt, a bigoted person. he's racist, he's classist, he's shown signs of being sexist too (though nowhere as bad as butters lol), etc. the thing is, his anti semitic remarks towards kyle for being a jewish person feel different than his other very backwards beliefs. i'll expand on this. 

take for example the way he treats token, often alluding to the fact he's black, applying stereotypes to him and commenting stuff such as 'your people'. all this because token is black, nothing to do with token's personality or hobbies, it's just because token is a black person. when he shot token it wasn't because token did something to him, it was because token was a black person, and therefore, a threat to him, a white person. with this we can assume that the first thing cartman notes about token is his ethnicity above all else. he doesn't see him as a person but just part of a minority he looks down upon.

now let's address his relationship with kyle. he belittles kyle, calls him a 'goddamn jew', has threatened his life, etc. to the naked eye you would think it's exactly the same to what he does to token but that's where i disagree. he doesn't hate kyle for being jewish, he hates kyle for BEING kyle. is it cause kyle is smarter than him? maybe. is it cause kyle makes has things he doesn't have? maybe. but the point is that kyle's very existence annoys cartman so he has to put him down and the most obvious thing he could possibly remark about kyle is the fact that he's jewish because it's a low hanging fruit. but that's not the only thing cartman has had issue with concerning kyle. cartman tried to make people turn against gingers and emphasized that daywalkers were the worst type. who is a daywalker? kyle, of course. when he found out kyle was partly new jerseyite, he was against that too. he just tries to single out kyle as a menace as soon as he has an excuse for it. and that's why i don't actually think he's a nazi as much as he's a big fucking dick with an unhealthy obsession for kyle. i'm convinced that if kyle wasn't jewish, cartman would still find an excuse to get on his case

furthermore, and this is something that escapes fans a lot, cartman has pretty much stopped calling kyle 'jew' for quite some time now. the development started in s19 where he promised he wouldn't anymore after getting the shit beat out of him by pc principal. he still did in the ninjas episode, same season, but ever since that habit has died. so, in any case, i think cartman is mellowing out…

---

I’m not sure if this is the answer you’re looking for, but honestly, even as someone who really isn’t super fond of both-sided Kyman myself, I kind of agree with a lot of this take and I have for a while, though I don’t think it’s all because of Kyle either. 

Cartman’s feelings towards Judaism seem extremely complicated to me, ranging from fetishizing the religion to outright hating it, and I think in large part this all does come down to his obsession with Kyle. Whether you believe the theory that Cartman is secretly in love with Kyle or not, it’s undeniable that he is obsessed with him and getting his attention. Maybe even having the envy of wanting to be like him in some aspects. 

I’m not going to go into a deepdive into this because I’m not the most well versed about Cartman’s character as a whole, but I can go over how Cartman’s feelings towards Kyle and Judaism seem to work. 

To start off, to say that his anti-semitism entirely comes down to how he feels about Kyle isn’t really true either. In early seasons, Cartman is already spouting out some pretty nasty stuff at Kyle about him being Jewish, and I would argue that this far back, he didn’t yet really hate Kyle or have any real obsession towards him. Not moreso than the other boys anyway- In fact, he even claims to hate Kenny the most, and there seems to be a genuine effort on his part to be liked by Stan and Kyle who tend to pick on him or show their outright hatred towards him- That’s not to say Cartman isn’t an asshole himself, but that seems like how he is towards everyone- He genuinely seems to crave their attention though, especially in episodes like Prehistoric Iceman. We’ve also seen that Liane seemed to have a pretty bad influence on Cartman at this time, teaching him some fairly bigoted shit. It feels likely to me that Liane probably had some if not full influence on Cartman’s opinion on Jews at this time, as she probably did with everything else he believes, leading to his general bigotry towards most minorities that he still holds today. 

What I agree with OP about though is that if Kyle had not been Jewish, Cartman would not be so intent on his anti semitism. I still believe he would probably be in the same way he is racist towards black people like Tolkien, but I can’t see him being nearly as obsessed with it, nor do I think he would fetishize it as much as he sometimes does. Cartman’s hatred of Jewish people in large part is because of Kyle, not the other way around. Of course, this isn’t at all Kyle’s fault and is still extremely egregious on Cartman’s part, but I think it’s important in meta discussions of how Cartman thinks and feels towards Kyle. 

One thing in OP’s post that does bother me however is the last part- Cartman “mellowing out”. I really don’t like the implications that Cartman’s antisemitism becoming more subtle is the equivalent to it being less, or even an improvement on Cartman’s behalf. Like, I do agree that he’s a child who has had a lot of bad influences and that he’s not beyond outgrowing his bigotry, but the show itself hasn’t really given us that just because Cartman doesn’t call Kyle “jew (derogatory)” anymore. We can’t get into his head obviously and see exactly what he thinks of Jewish people now but it’s pretty clear to me that he still holds a lot of antisemitic values and likes to torment Kyle in targeted ways because he’s Jewish. 

Season 21 and the first episode of season 23 are pretty obvious signs of that. In S21Ep7, he straight up told Heidi conspiracy theories about Jewish people and basically convinced her that Kyle has been manipulating her simply because he’s Jewish, as well as even going as far as teaching her that Jewish people are always “trying to get ahead of everyone else”. This isn’t some micro aggression he accidentally dropped despite showing vast improvement most of the time, this is extreme Nazi rhetoric, and it’s just as dangerous and damaging as the shit he was saying before Season 19. In S23Ep1, Cartman uses ICE to have Kyle’s family separated and placed in detention facilities in an extremely targeted act of revenge. He knows what he’s doing, and it’s obvious. He’s not stupid, and I don’t know how anyone can fall for his very clearly fake act in the episode that he somehow suddenly forgot Kyle was Jewish and that this situation would be something Kyle would be extra sensitive to. I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt that OP just forgot about these episodes but this is NOT an improvement in his behavior. It’s just more subtle and manipulative on his part which is disturbing and dangerous in its own right.

And then to talk about Cartman in the recent specials, I think there’s a strong argument for his behavior towards Judaism just seeming really fetishistic and even disingenuous, so even if his hatred isn’t there he’s still pretty antisemitic. 

So yeah, TL;DR, Cartman’s antisemitism seems to mostly revolve around his hatred/obsession with Kyle and he has not mellowed out in any positive ways since Season 19.