#katherine de la pole
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une-sanz-pluis · 1 year ago
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After Catherine died, Gloucester summoned Tudor before the council under a safe conduct; he sought sanctuary at Westminster. He maintained his innocence of any charge and was released, but on his way to Wales was arrested. His goods, worth £137 10s. 4d., were seized and he was consigned to Newgate prison, whence he escaped in January or early February 1438. After his recapture by John, Lord Beaumont (d. 1460), he returned to Newgate, and was then transferred to Windsor Castle (14 July) in the charge, soon afterwards, of Edmund Beaufort. Released in July 1439 on a £2000 recognizance, he was pardoned all offences on 12 November. Thereafter he was a member of the king's household; his two sons were in the care (1437–42) of the earl of Suffolk's sister, Katherine de la Pole, abbess of Barking, at the king's expense.
Ralph Griffiths, "Tudor, Owen [Owain ap Maredudd ap Tudur] (c. 1400–1461)", Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (2004, updated 2008)
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richmond-rex · 2 years ago
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Hi! I'm trying to read up on the York princesses' early lives and I can find frustratingly few details on the same. I was specifically curious about their various childhood betrothals that ultimately never came into fruition due to the death of their father, but I can barely find anything online beyond the bare basics (essentially: the names of the people they were betrothed to). I was wondering of any specific details of all their individual betrothals survived, and if they changed across the years of their father's reign?
And in Bridget of York's case - since she's more elusive to find than her sisters - was she destined for a church path since birth? I've seen some sites claim that her grandmother Cecily Neville named her with no actual evidence beyond her piety, but I always assumed it was her parents who was more likely to have done so? Both Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV were connected to St. Bridget and Elizabeth was also very pious.
You know a lot about this era so I hope it's okay to ask, sorry if the question seems out of the blue!
Hello! Sorry for taking so long to reply, I had to sit down and look up some things because the story of the betrothal of Edward IV's daughters is quite murky. I will talk about the betrothals that were done during Edward IV's reign because after that it's another thing entirely.
Let's talk about Bridget first. Was she destined for a church path since birth? There's no way of actually knowing this, but it's entirely possible she was. On a practical level, as the king's fifth surviving daughter, a competitive dowry to be used in a foreign marriage alliance would be hard to achieve (more about Edward IV and dowries in a second). More concrete evidence though does come from her name. I haven't found many noblewomen named Bridget in late medieval England but the one I did find, Bridget Holland (daughter of Thomas Holland 2nd Earl of Kent, Richard II's half-brother), indeed became a nun. Like Bridget of York, she seems to have been the youngest of 5-6 sisters.
Saint Bridget of Sweden was a very popular saint in England and she was especially revered by the English royal family (who since Henry V's time were patrons of a Bridgettine monastery at Sheen, Syon Abbey). Elizabeth of York and Margaret Beaufort would go on to commission the printing of a list of prayers popularly thought to have been written by St Bridget. For the Yorkists, however, St Bridget held particular importance because one of her prophecies had been used to justify Edward IV's right to rule. Cecily Neville in particular owned a copy of St Bridget's revelations which she later bequeathed to her granddaughter Anne de la Pole who not only also became a nun, but rose to the highest rank of prioress at Syon.
Cecily Neville was Bridget of York's godmother. Traditionally, godparents were the ones to name ('christen') the child at their baptism. Of course, most time the parents had their input too before the child was brought to the baptismal font. Elizabeth Woodville was also devoted to St Bridget. Interestingly, Cecily left her religious books to the two granddaughters who became nuns: Anne de la Pole, which I commented on above, and Bridget. Bridget received Cecily's Legenda Aurea (a collection of saints' lives), a book about St Katherine and another one about St Matilde.
To me, it seems entirely possible that Cecily Neville might have planned Bridget's career as a nun from the very beginning. It's quite likely that Edward IV and his wife Elizabeth vouched for the idea too, considering how important St Bridget's prophecy had been for Edward's legitimisation as king, they might have made a promise/vow to dedicate one of their children's lives to the Church as many catholic people still do today. I've seen the speculation that Bridget was sickly/had some kind of impairment from birth that would make her less desirable in the marriage market but I don't think we need that as a reason for her going into a convent.
Now going into the other princesses. We already know about Elizabeth of York, right? First, she was betrothed to Warwick's nephew and heir, George Neville, as a way to appease him in 1469. Then she was offered to Prince Edward of Lancaster but Margaret of Anjou went on to choose Anne Neville which was probably for the best, as Edward IV's suggestion, at a time when Edward V was about to be born, was probably just a ruse. Elizabeth's hand was also used as bait to bring back Henry Tudor to England in 1476. And again, it most certainly was a ruse as by that time she had just recently been betrothed to the Dauphin of France. She would be known as Madame la Dauphine until France called off the betrothal in late 1482.
Mary of York occupied 'the rather unfortunate position' as Ross describes it, of being her sister's replacement in the marriage alliance with France in case Elizabeth of York died before the wedding took place. It would not be until 1481, by then a time when many doubted the French marriage would even go through, that Mary was betrothed to King Frederick I of Denmark. She would die the next year in 1482.
Anne of York was first suggested to marry Philip, the future Duke of Burgundy, in 1480 as a part of a tentative Anglo-Burgundian alliance against France that Burgundy desperately wanted but that Edward IV only toyed with to pressure France into honouring their marriage alliance and wed Elizabeth of York and the Dauphin Charles. In the words of Charles Ross, Edward IV's biographer:
Edward quite ruthlessly exploited the duke’s desperate need of English support to get Anne’s marriage on the cheap. Maximilian had wanted a dowry of 200,000 crowns with Anne; Edward, on the other hand, regarded paying no dowry as part of the price of signing an alliance with Burgundy. When Maximilian argued that it was quite unreasonable for the bride of one of the wealthiest heirs in Europe to have no dowry at all, he still had small success in persuading her father to release the purse-strings. The original marriage treaty, signed on 5 August 1480, was modified by supplementary agreements on 14 and 21 August, which effectively released Edward from paying any dowry on condition of releasing to the duke the first year’s instalment of the pension of 50,000 crowns which he was demanding from Burgundy.
Here we must remember that Edward IV wanted to marry Elizabeth of York without paying any dowry at all. On the contrary, France was to pay for Elizabeth's upkeeping until she was married to the Dauphin. Edward IV, whilst dealing with Brittany to marry his son Edward to Anne of Brittany, heiress to her father's duchy, established that if the Duke of Brittany had a son before their children married, one of his daughters was to marry the duke's new son, and that Brittany—not him—were to provide his daughter's dowry. Ross cites a Breton scholar that snarkily remarked that ‘to marry his daughters without dowries was the objective which this miser [Edward IV] set before himself in the last years of his life’. Harsh.
However, Edward IV did agree to pay Cecily's dowry! Although admittedly it was much cheaper (20,000 crowns) than Edward IV himself was asking for Anne of Brittany's hand in marriage to his son (100,000 crowns as the heiress of Brittany, 200,000 in case her father had a son). Cecily of York was first betrothed to James III's heir, the future James IV, in 1473 as part of a truce between England and Scotland that allowed Edward IV to go to war against France in 1475. The truce with Scotland fell through by 1480 and by 1481 Edward IV was committed to a war against James. The next year Edward was willing to back James III's brother Alexander against him, with the condition that Alexander was to marry Cecily ‘if the said Alexander can make hymself clere fro all other Women, according to the Lawes of Christian Chyrche’.
Alexander backed down after the English invasion of Scotland, and James III once again suggested Cecily marry his son and heir as part of the peace terms but Edward IV called off the betrothal for good later that year and demanded the repayment of the dowry portion he had already paid to Scotland. It seems Edward had decided to renew the war against Scotland by that time (November 1482) and back Alexander as king again. Amazingly, Alexander would go on to make peace with his brother yet again in early 1483. So by the time Edward IV died, Cecily's betrothal to Scotland's heir was cancelled for good. Richard III would wed her to Ralph Scrope, Baron Scrope's second son and a man that was part of Richard III's northern affinity.
I haven't found anything about Katherine of York's betrothal during her father's reign. She was probably too young, being born in 1479. EDIT: There was a plan for Katherine to marry Isabella of Castille's heir Juan as proposed in 1482. See reblog in the notes.
And that's it! Basically, Louis XI's peace treaty with Burgundy in December 1482 frustrated at least two of Edward IV's marriage plans. The Dauphin of France would marry Margaret of Austria (Mary of Burgundy's daughter) instead of Elizabeth of York. On the other hand, Burgundy, no longer in need of Edward IV's help, was under no obligation to go through with the marriage of Anne of York and the young Philip of Burgundy. Edward IV's falling out with Scotland also meant Cecily's betrothal was called out.
By the time Edward IV died the only betrothal that was likely to go through was Prince Edward's with Anne of Brittany, so whenever I see people saying that if it wasn't for Edward's death Elizabeth of York would be queen of France, Cecily queen of Scotland, Anne duchess of Burgundy etc I can only assume the person saying that doesn't know much about the upheavals of the 1480s — or Edward IV's own disinclination to pay dowries for the marriages of his daughters.
I hope this answer was of some help, and once again, sorry for taking so long to reply.
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edwardslovelyelizabeth · 5 months ago
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Who are the people attending Elizabeth Woodville's funeral?Are they all her relatives?
Hi! Yes, her three daughters - Anne, Katherine and Bridget as well as her only son Thomas Grey with his wife and their daughter (Elizabeth’s granddaughter), her nieces and nephews, Cecily’s husband - Elizabeth’s son-in-law, Edward IV’s closest male relative Edmund de la Pole.
Mourners were soon arriving, however, three of her unmarried daughters arrived on Tuesday 12 June, Princesses Anne (born 1475), Katherine (born 1479), and Bridget (born 1480) and her daughter-in—law, Cecily Bonville, the wife of her eldest son and marchioness of Dorset. With them was an unmarried niece, Elizabeth, the daughter of Katherine Woodville, sister to the dead queen and dowager duchess of Buckingham, a grand-daughter, one of the daughters of her son the marquess of Dorset and yet another niece, Elizabeth, Lady Herbert in her own right as the only child of William Herbert, Lord Herbert and Earl of Huntingdon and Pembroke; and his first wife, Mary, another sister of the dead queen — the herald-narrator is apparently not aware that the sixteen year-old heiress had just been married in the king's presence on 2 June to his favourite, Sir Charles Somerset. There also arrived Lady Egremont, Dame Katherine Grey, and Dame Guildford, either the wife of Sir John Guildford or his son, Sir Richard, a family closely linked to the Woodvilles and Hautes. Part of the narrative seems to be missing at this point; it probably reported that these ladies knelt around the hearse according to their rank, while Dirige was sung. On Wednesday 13 June a mass of requiem was held while the three daughters knelt at ‘the hed’, their gentlewomen behind them. That same morning arrived Thomas, Marquess Dorset, the queen’s son, and Edmund de La Pole, son of the duke of Suffolk, the closest living male relative of Edward IV, Henry Bourchier, Earl of Essex, a nephew of the dead queen by her sister, Anne, John, Viscount Welles, who had married Cecily, the second surviving daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville, Sir Charles Somerset; the brand-new husband of Elizabeth, Lady Herbert and, last of the seculars, Sir Roger Cotton, Edward Haute, her second cousin through their common grandfather, Richard Woodville, Master Edmund Chaderton also came, once treasurer of Richard III and now chancellor to Queen Elizabeth of York.
from “The Royal Burials of the House of York at Windsor: II. Princess Mary, May 1482, and QueenElizabeth Woodville, June 1492.” by Anne Sutton and Livia Visser-Fuchs
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medievalistsnet · 1 year ago
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historicwomendaily · 6 years ago
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the granddaughters of cecily neville, duchess of york
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inky-duchess · 5 years ago
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Fantasy Guide to Royal Households and How they Work
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When I say Households, I mean the entourage that follows around the royal family. The household went everywhere with them to care for their needs from the people who would empty their chamber pots to their noble companions. Most royal households are basically the same as noble ones, only on grander scale. Every royal had a household and an entourage as well as every noble at court.
Palace Personnel ~ The Commons
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The commons were an intregal part of every household. They made up perhaps 80% of the work force. Royal courts were often on the road and never spent more than a few months at every palace. The court was constantly moving. Some positions were not permanent, meaning certain servants did not travel with the court because they were employed at the palace only. They would be paid by the Monarch's paymaster.
Scullion: The scullion was a relatively easy position to fill so they were often changed as the court went from palace to palace. They would be responsible for scrubbing and cleaning the servants quarters and the kitchens. They would scrub floors with lye, scour pots with sand, sweep put the fireplace and clean up after the other servants. They were the first to rise in a castle and tasked to light all the fires in the kitchens. Scullions would just be employed to the palace and serve a multitude of chambers
Laundress: The laundress was responsible for the cleaning of anything made of fabric in the household. Since they are handling unmentionables, they knew what happened behind closed bedchamber doors. They knew when the King visited the Queen or hadn't, they knew when marriages were consummated or not and they knew when the Queen and royal women were not pregnant. They often sold secrets to pad their pockets. Laundresses might be permanent staff but sometimes not.
Minstrels: The minstrel was a commoner hired to play an instrument or sing for the entertainment of the royal. A royal might staff a few at a time but they would always have one on hand. The minstrel would likely come with their masters as they travelled. The minstrel might serve the main royal household but a royal might retain their own.
Cook: The cook was one of the most important servants in the household. They would have the task of overseeing the running of the kitchens and keeping supplies in order. They would likely be on call at all times. Henry VIII's cook was often woken in the night because his royal master wanted a midnight snack. The cook was a valued member of the household and would have been highly sought after if they were a very skilled cook. They would have travelled with the joint. Cooks were apart of the greater royal household but often royals retained private cooks for their own use.
Maidservant: The maidservant cleans the castle. She would sweep the floors, scrub them, empty the chamberpots, get rid of the ashes from the fire and ready the fire for later. She would make up the bed or strip it for the laundresses. She would wash anything that needed washing including furniture and ornaments. She was likely not a travelling servant and would be strictly employed at a single palace.
Jester: The jester was the hired entertainer. Working under the master of revels, the jester had the daunting task of making the monarch and their family laugh. They would tell jokes, tell stories, cause havoc in the court for laughs and lighten the mood. The most successful jester of all time was Will Somers, jester to Henry VIII. Will broke bad news to the infamously bad tempered monarch and got away with things that would have sent others to the block. Will survived most of Henry's reign, his head intact. Jesters would be apart of the main household though each royal might have one of their own.
Positions within the Royal Household ~ Noble
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Nobility were always welcomed at court. They eat at court, slept at court and were cared for by the monarch. Some nobles had to sing for their supper and most were hired as royal servants. They weren't exactly scrubbing floors and would be paid handsomely with land that would generate wealth for them
The Steward/Seneschal: This person was the head of the royal's staff. They would have the task of running the lands and servants their master or mistress. The steward served as a backup and assistant in all the tasks even representing their master or mistress when they were unavailable. Would be a high ranking noble. Each royal household would have them.
Treasurer of the Household: The treasurer was the accountant and pay master. They would be in charge of ensuring debts were settled, wages were paid and the household was running within the budget. This was a coveted position because it gave the treasurer insight into the financial situations of the royals. Such info was wroth its weight in gold. Each royal would have one.
Usher: The Gentleman Usher would be in charge of escorting guests into the royal chambers and into the royal presence. They would act as a go between their royal master/mistress and the guest often going back and forth with messages. It was just as coveted as the position of chamberlain but with less responsibilities.
Master of Horse: The Master of Horse was in charge of seeing to the horses of their master. They would oversee the grooms or the stableboy/hands who were employed at the stables to actually care for the horses. The master of horse would ensure that the stables were in order and the horses were up to parr in order to bear royalty across the kingdom. Each royal would have one but there would a main one who acted as overseer.
Master of the Wardrobe/Mistress of the Robes: These are the nobility who are employed to look after the clothes of the royal they serve. This would mainly involve a managerial position, overseeing the inventory of the royal wardrobe (a warehouse like building that housed the clothing) and placing orders for new clothes. It was a tidy job that rarely involved getting the hands dirty. Each royal would have one.
Chamberlain/Valet: The chamberlain is employed to look after the Lord's bedchamber. This was the most sought out position as they effectively were the gateway into the royal presence. Their main task was making sure their boss was comfortable and happy. Could be a well born commoner or a noble. Each royal would have one.
The Page: All royal households had pages. They would be a young noble boy about seven years old sent to their royal master. He would be in charge of tidying up after the lord, carrying messages to other servants and occupants of the castle and serving him at meals. Unlike others on the list, the page would not be paid. His experience was his payment as he would learn the running of a court and how to be courtier. Each royal would have one.
Squires: Squires were like pages though they only served the men. They would accompany their royal master to battle, look after his armour and mail, ensure that his lord's horse was saddled, caring for their master's weapons. The squire would always be a young nobleman on the cusp of becoming a knight.
Governess: The governess is a noblewoman woman employed to oversee the Monarch's children's household. She would be the first teacher a royal child would have and would oversee the nursemaids who would have care of the physical person of the child. She would be appointed when the child was four or five. Notable governesses include Katherine Swynford (wife of John of Gaunt and mother to the Beaufort line), Margaret Pole (wife of Tudor Loyal Sir Richard Pole, sister of the last York heir Edward of Warwick, daughter of George Duke of Clarence and niece to King Edward VI and Richard III), Kat Ashley, Margaret Bryan, Madame de Maintenon and Baroness Lehzen. Most unmarried Princesses retained their governesses while Princes generally outgrew their governesses after they were breeched.
Gentlemen of the Privy Chamber: They were the male companions of a King or Prince, sort of like ladies in waiting but manly. They would accompany the King or Prince everywhere they would go and shared duties with Groom of the Stool (royal toilet paper dispenser) and the Chief Gentleman of the Chamber (overseeing the staff and maintaining the chamber). They would help their master get ready, serve him at the table and organize hunting and games to keep him entertained. Gentlemen and companions where often chosen for their connections as well as their master's own opinion. Henry VIII's gentlemen included: Sir William Compton (ward of Henry VII and heir to rich lands), Sir Henry Norris (the grandson of William Norris who fought with Henry's father at Stroke and a relation to the Yorkists Lovells), Sir Anthony Denny (son of Sir Edmund Denny Baron of the Exchequer) Sir Michael Stanhope (brother in law to Edward Seymour, Duke of Somerset), Charles Brandon (ward of Henry VII and son of Tudor Loyalists)
Ladies in Waiting and Maids in Waiting or Maids of Honour: These are the female attendants to the Queen or Princess. Ladies in Waiting were married while the Maids were unmarried. They would have to attend their mistress wherever she went, help her get ready, keep her chambers in order, write letters for the Queen and maintaining her honour. They were chosen for their connections. Using Katherine of Aragon as an example, her Ladies in Waiting included: Maria de Salinas (daughter of Juan Sancriz de Salinas secretary to Isabella, Princess of Portugal and a Spanish courtier in the service to Katherine's parents, wife of Baron Willoughby de Ersby), Elizabeth Howard (the daughter of Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk, sister to Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk and wife to Thomas Boleyn, ambassador to France), Anne Hastings (daughter of William Hastings, 1st Baron Hastings, wife to George Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury and Lord Steward.), Agnes Tilney (wife to Thomas Howard, Earl of and 2nd Duke of Norfolk.), Elizabeth Scrope (wife of John de Vere, Earl of Oxford, a loyal Tudor lord), Margaret Scrope (wife of Sir Edmund de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk cousin to the King), Anne Stafford (sister of the Duke of Buckingham, married Sir George Hastings, Earl of Huntington and daughter of Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham (cousin to the King) and Lady Katherine Woodville (sister of King Henry VIII's grandmother and his great aunt by her marriage), Elizabeth Stafford (sister to Anne Stafford wife Robert Radcliffe, Lord Fitzwalter and Earl of Sussex around). Their connections are what got them their places and you can see why they were chosen.
Accommodation
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Accommodation can be a difficult thing to sort both as a writer and a steward. You might have a palace of 200+ bedchambers in which you must house a staff of 500-/+, a varying amount of nobles, the royal family (of a varying amount) and their own households. When assigning rooms it is best to think of a Russian nesting doll. Start from the inside and work your way to the outside.
The best rooms go to the monarch, their consort and their children/siblings/parent(s). These chambers would include the bedroom, a drawing room/ common area, a privy, a closet (a small chamber that can be used for prayer or work). They would be furnished with the best cloth, the best candles and whatever furniture brought by the resident since most royal courts travelled from palace to palace. They will also have chambers for their personal servants such as ladies in waiting and grooms.
The second best set of rooms would go to the highest ranking nobles/people in the court. These rooms would be less fancy and a little smaller. These would be given to from titled nobility descending from those of Ducal rank (Dukes/Duchesses) or even members of the council such as Thomas Cromwell in Tudor times.
The next set would be considerably smaller, perhaps minus a closet or a drawing room. Given to lower nobility.
The next level of chambers would be smaller perhaps only the bedroom and a common area given to minor nobles.
The last set of rooms would be small and only hold enough room for a bedroom. Servants would have to sleep on the ground on pallets beside their masters.
Any other guests at court would have to stay at off-site locations around the palace in the city. Some nobles at houses around major palaces just in case they arrived late or were kicked out of court.
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period-dramallama · 3 years ago
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Tudor Queen, Tudor Crown: a review
Yeah I'm not bothering to finish this book. Life is short and my to read list is long.
Let's begin with the book itself. It's bad. It has been through spellcheck, but the editor was either lazy or non existent. As a result, there are sentences that do not make sense. Here's some examples- all from the first 40 pages:
"Set a dangerous precedence"
"Ridiculing her to high dungeon"
"The King was loathed to send her back to Spain" [because he wanted her dowry]
"Gracious largess"
"The draft filled hall" (to be fair I think that one depends on whether you're American or not)
"The damp castle was all but inhabitable"
"They had their heads loped off".
As to the history.... the author's background seems to be in mythological retellings. Not necessarily a bad approach. However, she does not have an eye for detail. She confuses the Poles and the de la Poles- they were two different families. She says it was Mary's uncle, not her cousin, who was Holy Roman Emperor. Her dating also means Anne was born in 1508 or 1509- I don't know of any historian who thinks she was born after 1507. She calls Katherine of Valois "Katherine Valois." If she had bothered to Google Katherine, this could have been corrected.
Speaking of Katherine of Valois, she says Owen Tudor "cuckolded his sovereign by tumbling his wife". I'm fairly confident that Katherine and Owen didn't get together until after Henry V was dead.
This is literally on page one of the book. Granted, it may be one of the ways the author is 'retelling' but still. Page one. And Owen is not the only historical man to get unfairly treated in this book.
The author seems either to exaggerate the facts, or misunderstand their significance. Exhibit A: Henry "invested one boy after another giving them titles and lands recognising them as his." However many illegitimate sons Henry had, he did not do this. He did it with just one son- Henry Fitzroy.
When it comes to Anne's execution, the author has this to say: "For Anne Boleyn was no Katherine of Aragon. The Dowager Princess' dignity was so great and her character was so pious, no one would have ever credited such a charge. Anne Boleyn's repute however was entirely different."
Leaving aside the fact many people-who didn't even like Anne- didn't believe the charges... does the author think it is a coincidence that Henry's princess wives got annulments while his commoner wives got either executed or threatened with execution? Of course Katherine of Aragon wasn't arrested or beheaded, there would be consequences abroad for that. Charles V could only put up with so much.
The novel also implies at one point that Henry has soldiers murder Katherine of Aragon... but what about the autopsy? If Katherine met a violent death, why would the autopsy talk about the ominous condition of her heart and ignore literal stab wounds? Why?
Now on to the retelling... I saw there would be a chapter from Elizabeth's POV in 1548 and I thought to myself "oh god she's going to have a torrid passionate affair with seymour isn't she".
And I was right.
Much original much retelling very unpredictable wooooow so groundbreaking never seen that before
Basically Elizabeth is swept off her feet by seymour because he's so hawt and she has never felt lust before and I know exactly what the author is doing. She's trying to spin it as Elizabeth being Empowered and Taking Charge of Her Sexuality. Babe. You can't Hades/Persephone a real life case of child abuse. And the distinction between shipping twisted ships and shipping Elizabeth/Seymour is the same as the distinction between thirsting after fictional villains and thirsting after Manson/Bundy/Dylan Roof etc. Why not make OCs if you want this story so badly? Who knows you might even end up with a story that's...original....
The author stated at the end of the book that she wanted to write Mary as not being in love with Philip. It would be interesting to have Mary and Philip have a more nuanced and strained relationship than simply 'Mary loves Philip, Philip doesn't love Mary."
(There's a double standard in these kinds of novels where Seymour lusting after teenage Elizabeth makes him the sexy bad boy but if Philip lusts after adult Elizabeth then he's a terrible husband betraying his poor wife. Go figure.)
That's not what we get though. What we get is Mary and Philip consummating their marriage with no foreplay and with Philip not caring about Mary's physical pain while it happens. Cheap, lazy, unimaginative.
As to the quality of the story... not nearly enough dialogue. There's so little dialogue that the dialogue is in italics, no different than thoughts. Why write a story if you never let characters talk to each other on the page? I don't want the story summarised for me dammit I want to see and hear it happen!
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algebraicvarietyshow · 4 years ago
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The National Garden should be composed of statues, including statues of Ansel Adams, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Muhammad Ali, Luis Walter Alvarez, Susan B. Anthony, Hannah Arendt, Louis Armstrong, Neil Armstrong, Crispus Attucks, John James Audubon, Lauren Bacall, Clara Barton, Todd Beamer, Alexander Graham Bell, Roy Benavidez, Ingrid Bergman, Irving Berlin, Humphrey Bogart, Daniel Boone, Norman Borlaug, William Bradford, Herb Brooks, Kobe Bryant, William F. Buckley, Jr., Sitting Bull, Frank Capra, Andrew Carnegie, Charles Carroll, John Carroll, George Washington Carver, Johnny Cash, Joshua Chamberlain, Whittaker Chambers, Johnny “Appleseed” Chapman, Ray Charles, Julia Child, Gordon Chung-Hoon, William Clark, Henry Clay, Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain), Roberto Clemente, Grover Cleveland, Red Cloud, William F. “Buffalo Bill” Cody, Nat King Cole, Samuel Colt, Christopher Columbus, Calvin Coolidge, James Fenimore Cooper, Davy Crockett, Benjamin O. Davis, Jr., Miles Davis, Dorothy Day, Joseph H. De Castro, Emily Dickinson, Walt Disney, William “Wild Bill” Donovan, Jimmy Doolittle, Desmond Doss, Frederick Douglass, Herbert Henry Dow, Katharine Drexel, Peter Drucker, Amelia Earhart, Thomas Edison, Jonathan Edwards, Albert Einstein, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Duke Ellington, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Medgar Evers, David Farragut, the Marquis de La Fayette, Mary Fields, Henry Ford, George Fox, Aretha Franklin, Benjamin Franklin, Milton Friedman, Robert Frost, Gabby Gabreski, Bernardo de Gálvez, Lou Gehrig, Theodor Seuss Geisel, Cass Gilbert, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, John Glenn, Barry Goldwater, Samuel Gompers, Alexander Goode, Carl Gorman, Billy Graham, Ulysses S. Grant, Nellie Gray, Nathanael Greene, Woody Guthrie, Nathan Hale, William Frederick “Bull” Halsey, Jr., Alexander Hamilton, Ira Hayes, Hans Christian Heg, Ernest Hemingway, Patrick Henry, Charlton Heston, Alfred Hitchcock, Billie Holiday, Bob Hope, Johns Hopkins, Grace Hopper, Sam Houston, Whitney Houston, Julia Ward Howe, Edwin Hubble, Daniel Inouye, Andrew Jackson, Robert H. Jackson, Mary Jackson, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, Steve Jobs, Katherine Johnson, Barbara Jordan, Chief Joseph, Elia Kazan, Helen Keller, John F. Kennedy, Francis Scott Key, Coretta Scott King, Martin Luther King, Jr., Russell Kirk, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Henry Knox, Tadeusz Kościuszko, Harper Lee, Pierre Charles L’Enfant, Meriwether Lewis, Abraham Lincoln, Vince Lombardi, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Clare Boothe Luce, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, George Marshall, Thurgood Marshall, William Mayo, Christa McAuliffe, William McKinley, Louise McManus, Herman Melville, Thomas Merton, George P. Mitchell, Maria Mitchell, William “Billy” Mitchell, Samuel Morse, Lucretia Mott, John Muir, Audie Murphy, Edward Murrow, John Neumann, Annie Oakley, Jesse Owens, Rosa Parks, George S. Patton, Jr., Charles Willson Peale, William Penn, Oliver Hazard Perry, John J. Pershing, Edgar Allan Poe, Clark Poling, John Russell Pope, Elvis Presley, Jeannette Rankin, Ronald Reagan, Walter Reed, William Rehnquist, Paul Revere, Henry Hobson Richardson, Hyman Rickover, Sally Ride, Matthew Ridgway, Jackie Robinson, Norman Rockwell, Caesar Rodney, Eleanor Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, Betsy Ross, Babe Ruth, Sacagawea, Jonas Salk, John Singer Sargent, Antonin Scalia, Norman Schwarzkopf, Junípero Serra, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Robert Gould Shaw, Fulton Sheen, Alan Shepard, Frank Sinatra, Margaret Chase Smith, Bessie Smith, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Jimmy Stewart, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Gilbert Stuart, Anne Sullivan, William Howard Taft, Maria Tallchief, Maxwell Taylor, Tecumseh, Kateri Tekakwitha, Shirley Temple, Nikola Tesla, Jefferson Thomas, Henry David Thoreau, Jim Thorpe, Augustus Tolton, Alex Trebek, Harry S. Truman, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Dorothy Vaughan, C. T. Vivian, John von Neumann, Thomas Ustick Walter, Sam Walton, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, John Washington, John Wayne, Ida B. Wells-Barnett, Phillis Wheatley, Walt Whitman, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Roger Williams, John Winthrop, Frank Lloyd Wright, Orville Wright, Wilbur Wright, Alvin C. York, Cy Young, and Lorenzo de Zavala.”
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minervacasterly · 4 years ago
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The caricature of Margaret Beaufort:
From pop culture POV and the POV of those influenced by it, this powerful matriarch is all of the following: Religious nut case! Bitch. She killed the princes in the tower! Old and ugly! Screw her! She and her son were the worst thing that happened to England!
And yet her son became the founder of a dynasty that reigned for more than a century and continues to fascinate us. Now on to the real Meg Beaufort. In the White Queen she is all this and that but the real Meg was no religious nut case and she certainly didn't plan the murder of the Princes and you can debate me countless times on this but there is no concrete evidence that she did! Richard had more than enough motive and opportunity to kill the Princes and oh wait before I get the Ricardians on my case, I don't hate Richard. I actually find him interesting, I wouldn't find him interesting if he was perfect. Richard had learned from his brother's mistakes but made mistakes of his own. If he produced the boys then that would've propelled them to sainthood and the last thing he wanted was a cult was already building around Henry VI. What happened with this last monarch is fascinating and you might be wondering -hey! Isn't that the guy they smothered with a pillow in the White Queen? Yeah, that's the one. Except there are so many theories abounding to his death. The first one comes from Bettini who wrote three weeks after the Lancastrian king's death that it was Edward NOT Richard who gave the order. At the time the blame was solely pinned on Edward, so let's not confuse contemporary sources with secondary. Rous and Vergil writing in the Tudor period pinned the murder on Richard and even early Ricardians say that he did it, but with one major difference -*under* Edward's orders. If this is so, one thing we can all agree, if Richard gave the order or personally took care of Henry, it was all done under his brother's command. But this backfired, soon people were attributing all sorts of miracles to this guy, he became more famous in death than he had ever been in life. Edward tried hard to suppress this cult but he couldn't and Richard did the next best thing. If you can't beat them, join 'em! He cashed in on the cult and officiated a reburial of the dead monarch and started all new kinds of celebrations for him but people still talked as they always do. Now if he had produced the dead children as he and his brother had done with the Lancastrian king, then it would've been chaos, complete and utter chaos!
Margaret Beaufort's sole aim up until the princes disappearance in the summer of 1483 was to gain back her son's lands and bring him back safely. She was forced to give him up before after the Lancaster line had been wiped out from the face of the earth by Yorkist forces, ending to some historians' view, the wars of the roses in 1471. Margaret would not see him until the aftermath of Bosworth in 1485. She had little to worry about the first years of his exile, he was with his uncle Jasper, his father's brother. They intended to sail to the French court, a court his uncle knew very well but landed in Brittany instead because of the bad weather. Brittany was not on good terms with the French and they had their fair share of enmity with the English so it served the Duke well to have two valuable English hostages, one who had a considerable (if debatable) claim to the English throne via his mother. Edward attempted to coax the old Duke into give up his charge and while the Duke never believed Edward's intentions, some of his ministers did and those who didn't just wanted to cash in on the juicy rewards. Henry was an intelligent youth who was far from the serious and mama's boy he's depicted in today's fiction. He loved to laugh, play, joke and gamble. But he was aware how valuable he was and at one point feigned sickness and took sanctuary in a church when he suspected his future voyage to England was a hoax -which it was -and that small trickery on his part saved him.
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By 1480, Margaret had more than enough to worry, but she wasn't giving up on her son's legacy. With Edward's promise to marry him to his eldest daughter, Margaret continued to rely on the faith that gave comfort to so many women in this period, and Edward's promise, albeit a fake one, was something she never let go of. The accession of Richard and Anne changed all that. Always an opportunist at heart, she tried to curry favor with the new regime. Whether she agreed with it or not -we will never know but her husband was an official in Richard's government and she had more than enough reason to believe that Richard would grant her her request to bring her son back. After all he was more busy convincing everyone his brother had never been legally married to Elizabeth and securing his position. But surprise, surprise for Margaret and everyone involved. Her life was never easy, it was one obstacle after another and this was no different. The boys' disappearance changed everything and Buckingham's rebellion gave her a chance she had never considered before. Her moment to shine had come. She was no longer looking to bring her son back as a mere earl but as a king so she started plotting with the queen dowager through her Welsh doctor. After a lot of plotting and intrigue and tragedy at Richard's court, her son's shining moment came and thanks to the defection of his stepfather from Richard's camp to his side, he won. There is a famous myth that his stepfather, Thomas Stanley found the crown in a thorn bush but this is likely Tudor propaganda. Richard's treatment afterwards was one that's always given by the victor to the loser, stripped of all his clothes and shamefully paraded, he was then written as the worst monarch that ever lived.
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And while I do agree there needs to be a better assessment of Richard, doing the same to Margaret and Richard is just as dumb. She was born in 1443 and a year after, John Beaufort, her father and Duke of Somerset died. Many said at the time that it was because of suicide because of his terrible leadership in France. Truth or not, Margaret was now a wealthy heiress and her wardship was widely sought after. William de la Pole, the crown's favorite tried to marry her to his son, but after he was murdered, at only nine years old Margaret was brought to court to swear that she never intended to marry his son. Later she rewrote history saying that it was because of a godly vision that told her that it was her destiny to marry Edmund Tudor and establish a great house, that she denied it. Margaret married at only 12 and Edmund Tudor, anxious to get his hands on her wealth, didn't bother to wait. He impregnated her less than a year after and she gave birth in January 1457 when she was months away from being 14, to her only offspring. The birth damaged her, she never had any children with her other spouses. She had a happy marriage with her next spouse, Henry Stafford and they celebrated their anniversary in big style every year and even housed Edward IV in their hunting lodged in one occasion. This doesn't sound like the power hungry, vindictive Margaret of TV. And that's because she wasn't! She was very learned and founded and refounded many colleges, chief among them: Christ's College which had previously been God's House and St. John's in Cambridge. Aware that only the privileged few could attend these institutions she voiced her concerns in 1479, and her attempts bore fruit when Wimborne College was established posthumously in 1509, which was later renamed Queen Elizabeth's school. She also established the Lady Margaret Beaufort Professorship of Divinity at Cambridge in 1502 and the first women's college in Oxford was named after her.
In spite of her joy of seeing her son crowned, she could not help herself. Fisher and many contemporaries described how she cried -a clear sign of a woman that doesn't care about power- and when asked why, she responded because she had lived through so many kings and princes who had been murdered and killed in battle. Who knew if her son was next or if his reign would last. She cried the same tears of grief on her grandson's joint coronation with Katherine, fearing that his reign would face the same troubles.
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Margaret passed away days after in 1509, after a long life of hardship and triumph.
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shalebridge-cradle · 4 years ago
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Historical References in What Are You Going to Do With Your Life - Chapters 10-12
Chapter 10
Boleyn mumbles something about a priest. W. S. Pakenham-Walsh (1868 - 1960), Vicar of Sulgrave, Northhamptonshire, had a strong interest in Anne Boleyn. He claimed to have a series of spiritual experiences after praying at Boleyn’s burial site, and contacted clairvoyants to channel her spirit in the hopes she might become his guardian angel. He also claimed in his diary that he had contact with Henry VIII and other notable members of the Tudor court.
While witchcraft was often punished via the death penalty, Henry VIII made the law explicit in 1542 (though it was later repealed no later than 1547, under Edward VI). Several witchcraft laws were made in the UK over the years, in 1563, 1604, 1649 and 1735. These were all repealed and replaced with more general consumer protection laws, and the last person to be indicted for witchcraft (under the 1735 act) was imprisoned in 1944.
Tarot was a regular set of cards for most of its history, used in various, but similar, trick-taking card card games. It became associated with ancient wisdom in 1781, when Antoine Court de Gébelin wrote an essay claiming (with no evidence) that ancient Egyptian priests had distilled the mystical Book of Thoth into the cards.
“Psychic is Greek, and clairvoyant is French. One is about thinking, and the other is about seeing.” Psychic comes from the Greek word psychikos (‘of the mind’) and clairvoyance is a combination of two French words (‘clear’ and ‘vision’). Catherine of Aragon was known to speak both French and Greek, as well as Latin, her native Spanish, and English.
Cunning man (or woman) was another word for folk healers.
In 1532, Catherine Parr’s brother-in-law from her second marriage, William Neville, was accused of treason for allegedly predicting the king’s death and his own ascension as Earl of Warwick (a title made extinct during the Wars of the Roses, but would be recreated in 1547 and twice after that). He went to at least three magicians to confirm this prediction, all of which agreed that it was meant to be true (it wasn’t). One of these magicians was Richard Jones of Oxford, who was imprisoned and questioned on the matter. He did his best to exonerate himself of responsibility. I have found five references confirming his existence – but many of them claim he had a sceptre he used to ‘summon the four king devils’, which he used for divination purposes.
Chapter 11
Jones of Oxford was taken in for questioning as part of the Neville affair, and he did his best in his confession to exonerate himself. Neville’s claims of a prophetic dream showing himself as Earl of Warwick were now a “fair castle” which Neville assumed must be the castle of Warwick, and a shield with “sundry arms I could not rehearse”. He did admit to writing “a foolish letter or two according to [Neville’s] foolish desire, to make pastime to laugh at”. No treason, just jokes, please don’t execute me Thomas Cromwell. Jones claimed to take his alchemy seriously, however, and wrote that “To make the philosopher’s stone I will jeopard my life, so to do it,” if the king so wished. He would require twelve months “upon silver” and twelve and a half “upon gold”, and was willing to be imprisoned while he worked. Jones made a similar offer to Cromwell, but there is no evidence either man accepted. Jones was released in exchange for revealing incriminating evidence against another figure of interest. The other magicians caught up in this incident, William Wade and a man known only as ‘Nashe’, had perfected their disappearing act and were not sent to the Tower.
There is a story that Elizabeth I attributed the destruction of the Spanish armada in 1588 to John Dee’s wizardry. Given that, as mentioned, Dee was out of favour with Elizabeth at the time, this is likely untrue.
Elizabeth I’s death was in March of 1603, after she became sick and remained in a “settled and unmovable melancholy”, sitting on a cushion and staring at nothing. The death of a close friend in February of that year came as a particular blow – that of her second cousin and First Lady of the Bedchamber, Catherine Howard.
James I (or James VI, depending on where you’re from)… James I of England was also James VI of Scotland. His mother was Mary Queen of Scots, who was executed by Elizabeth I, and his great-grandmother was Margaret Tudor, Henry VIII’s sister.
“Anna, born Duchess of Jülich, Cleves and Berg.” This was how Anna signed hers’ and Henry’s marriage treaty, known as the ‘Beer Pot Documents’, because someone drew a stein at the bottom.
Bowling, as a game, can trace its origins back to ancient Egypt, and has been quite popular the world over throughout history. Henry VIII was an avid bowler himself (when Hampton Court was remodelled, bowling alleys were included with tennis courts and tiltyards), but banned the sport for the lower classes. The law against workers bowling (unless it was Christmas and in their master’s presence) was repealed in 1845.
We return to the ground, because from it we were taken. Paraphrasing of Genesis 3:19.
The (possible) first appearance of the word ‘alligator’ in the English language is from Romeo and Juliet. The description of The Apothecary’s shop mentions “a tortoise hung, an alligator stuff’d, and other skins of ill-shaped fishes”. Traditionally, medieval apothecaries and astrologers kept skeletons, fossils, and/or taxidermied pieces on display to demonstrate their worldliness.
The anger over calling the alligator ‘William’ could come from Parr, or from Anna. Her brother’s name, Wilhelm, is often anglicised as William.
Midsomer county does not exist and never has. It’s the setting for the long-running mystery TV show Midsomer Murders. Incidentally, Catherine Parr’s native county of Westmorland existed at one point, but no longer does (the area is now in the county of Cumbria). She is not the only English-born queen who this applies to; Jane Seymour’s Wiltshire and Anne Boleyn’s Norfolk still exist (and have since antiquity), but Katherine Howard was most likely born in Lambeth, which would have been in the county of Middlesex at the time. The area is now under the ceremonial county of Greater London.
“Honestly? Margaret Pole’s was worse.” Margaret Pole, Countess of Sailsbury and the last of the House of York, was kept in the Tower of London for two and a half years for her supposed support of Catholicism’s attempts to overthrow the king, before being informed of her death ‘within the hour’ on the 27th of May, 1541. She answered that she did not know the crime of which she was accused (and had carved a poem into the wall of her cell to that effect), but went to the block anyway. It allegedly took eleven blows from the inexperienced axeman to separate her head from her body. There is another story that she tried to run from the executioner and was killed in the attempt, but this is likely a fabrication. Regardless, pretty much everyone thought this was not only a bad idea on Henry’s part (killing Margaret removed any leverage the king had on her rebellious son, Cardinal Reginald Pole), it was also pointlessly cruel and a painfully undignified end.
(She was also Catherine of Aragon’s lady-in-waiting, and governess to Mary at several points.)
That everyone around her, bar a few visitors, would actively benefit from her death… Yet another quote of Elizabeth Tyrwhitt’s testimony: Parr, on her deathbed, claimed she was “not well-handled” by those around her; “for those that be about me careth not for me, but standeth laughing at my grief, and the more good I will to them, the less good they will to me”.
Chapter 12
According to a lady-in-waiting, Anne Boleyn claimed she would rather see Catherine of Aragon hanged “than have to confess that she was her queen and mistress”. This incident is probably the origin of the lyric “somebody hang you!” from Don’t Lose Ur Head.
Catalina uses a few Spanish phrases in this chapter, which don’t get directly translated. The first, No se hizo la miel para la boca del asno, directly translates to ‘Honey is not made for the donkey’s mouth’, and essentially means ‘Good things shouldn’t be wasted on those who won’t appreciate them’. Lavar cerdos con jabón es perder tiempo y jabón is ‘Washing pigs with soap is a waste of time and soap’, and is meant to indicate some things aren’t worth the energy.
…like that dream she has where she is cut up by a servant… An autopsy was done on Catherine of Aragon as part of the embalming process, which revealed the growth on her heart. This was done by the castle chandler (a dealer or trader) as part of his official duties.
Jane Seymour got rid of most of the hallmarks of Anne Boleyn’s tenure during her own queenship. The extravagance and lavish entertainments were banned, along with the French fashions Boleyn had introduced – including French hoods, which Boleyn is wearing in the portrait we have of her. Jane, as mentioned, wore a gable hood in her portraits.
“I don’t know why I’m so surprised that people care about what I say.” In the words of nineteenth century proto-feminist Agnes Strickland, Jane “passed eighteen months of regal life without uttering a sentence significant enough to warrant preservation”, which is kind of a mean thing to say. Seymour certainly said things during this time, we know this from reports, but there aren’t any direct quotes from her during her time as queen.
Here’s the painting mentioned, from 1545, during Catherine Parr’s tenure. Jane is on Henry’s left.
It was only after her death that Henry ‘loved’ her, but she is certain that he mourned for only for his own loss. There are reports that, during Jane’s labour, doctors advised Henry he might lose either Jane or Edward. Henry is claimed to have replied, “If you cannot save both, at least let the child live, for other wives are easily found.”
Countdown is a British television game show that revolves around word and number puzzles. It has been going for almost forty years, and is one of the longest-running game shows in the world, with over 7000 episodes.
“I saw a ghost bear kill someone, once.” Anne isn’t making this up. Supposedly, the incident occurred in 1816, when a Yeoman Warder saw a ghostly bear somewhere in the Tower of London. Terrified, he tried to stab it with his bayonet, only for the weapon to go through the image and strike the door behind it. The guard died of shock later on. A similar event happened in 1864, where two guards witnessed “a whitish, female figure” gliding towards one of the soldiers. The soldier in question charged this figure, only to go straight through it, upon which he fainted.
Elizabeth was imprisoned in the Tower of London for a little over two months in 1554, as a result of Wyatt’s Rebellion against Queen Mary. The rebellion was also the likely reason for the execution of Lady Jane Grey – both she and Elizabeth were Protestants in line for the throne, and therefore ‘more suitable’ as ruler. Both Elizabeth and Jane Grey denied any involvement, but the latter’s father and brother (also executed) were direct contributors.
“… you did die, Elizabeth was really upset about it…” Elizabeth took the news of Parr’s death badly. She refused to leave her bed, and was unable to go a mile from her residence, for five months following Parr’s passing.
Not because she liked that bearded potato man, God no… I found this deeply cursed engraving (first produced in 1544) in one of my books on the six wives, and now I want you all to suffer with me.
Anne of Cleves reacted poorly to being told her marriage would be annulled – some accounts say she fainted, others says she cried and screamed. Both could be true. The reasons given were threefold – One, the marriage was unconsummated (From testimony given by two servants, Anne thought a kiss goodnight counted as consummation – likely untrue, but this is the only reason that actually has merit). Two, Anne was precontracted to Francis of Lorraine (Untrue – the betrothal would only take effect if Anne’s father paid the dowry, and he didn’t). Three, Anne was not a virgin as claimed, based on the description of her ‘breasts and belly’, a Tudor way of saying Anne had previously given birth (untrue, and conflicts with the testimony for reason one). The annulment went through without Anne’s involvement, but (probably looking at the examples of her three predecessors) she accepted the ruling and kept herself from being banished, beheaded or otherwise.
(Other fact that has no bearing on reality – while researching Anne of Cleves, one of the pages that came up was The Simpsons Wiki. Apparently she’s the only wife who can claim the honour of having been in two episodes. :/)
Dogs don’t need to answer for their sins, they don’t have any. Katherine Howard was reportedly fond of animals in general, but had a particular soft spot for dogs.
She did the right thing. She told the truth. She died for it. Katherine Howard insisted, to the end, that she had no pre-contract of marriage to Francis Dereham. Would she have survived if she said she did?
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treeofliferpg · 4 years ago
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Guía de escritura: Séquitos reales y cómo funcionan
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Recordamos que el siguiente texto no ha sido redactado por el staff de ToL, solo lo hemos traducido para que pueda llegar a más personas. La autoría pertenece a @inky-duchess. Podéis leer el post original en su  tumblr así como en este mismo tumblr bajo la etiqueta “idioma original”.
Para todos aquellos que disfruten de los roles históricos y de desarrollar a sus personajes en el escenario de un castillo de alguna corte, os traemos este texto donde se explica un poco en qué consiste cada cargo/empleo, así como cuales hay. Pensamos que podrá ayudaros a dar más realismo a vuestras tramas. Empecemos:
Cuando digo séquito, me refiero al séquito que sigue a la familia real. La familia iba a todas partes con ellos para atender sus necesidades de la gente que vaciaba sus orinales a sus nobles acompañantes. La mayoría de las casas reales son básicamente las mismas que las de los nobles, solo que en mayor escala. Cada miembro de la realeza tenía una casa y un séquito, así como todos los nobles de la corte.
Personal del Palacio ~ Los plebeyos
Los plebeyos eran una parte intrínseca de todos los castillos. Constituían quizás el 80% de la fuerza laboral. Las cortes reales estaban a menudo de gira y nunca pasaban más de unos meses en cada palacio. La corte estaba en constante movimiento. Algunos puestos no eran permanentes, lo que significa que ciertos sirvientes no viajaban con la corte porque solo trabajaban en el palacio. Serían pagados por el tesorero del Monarca.
Pinche: El pinche era un puesto relativamente fácil de ocupar, por lo que a menudo se cambiaban cuando la corte iba de palacio en palacio. Los pinches se encargarían de fregar y limpiar los cuartos de servicio y las cocinas. Fregarían los pisos con lejía, fregarían las ollas con arena, barrerían la chimenea y limpiarían después de los otros sirvientes. Eran los primeros en levantarse en un castillo y se encargaban de encender todos los fuegos en las cocinas. Los pinches solo se emplearían en el palacio y servirían a una multitud de cámaras.
Lavandera: La lavandera era responsable de la limpieza de cualquier cosa hecha de tela en el hogar. Como manejan prendas muy íntimas, sabían lo que sucedía detrás de las puertas cerradas de los dormitorios. Sabían cuando el Rey visitaba a la Reina o no, sabían cuando los matrimonios se consumaron o no y sabían cuando la Reina y las mujeres reales no estaban embarazadas. A menudo vendían secretos para llenarse los bolsillos. Las lavanderas pueden ser personal permanente, pero a veces no.
Juglares: El juglar era un plebeyo contratado para tocar un instrumento o cantar para el entretenimiento de la realeza. Un miembro de la realeza podría tener unos pocos a la vez, pero siempre tendrían uno a mano. El juglar probablemente iría con sus amos mientras viajaban. El juglar podría servir a la casa real principal, pero un miembro de la realeza podría conservar el suyo propia.
Cocinero: El cocinero era uno de los sirvientes más importantes de la casa. Tendría la tarea de supervisar el funcionamiento de las cocinas y mantener los suministros en orden. Probablemente estaría de guardia en todo momento. El cocinero de Enrique VIII solía despertarse por la noche porque su amo quería un bocado de medianoche. El cocinero era un miembro valioso de la familia y habría sido muy buscado si fuera un cocinero muy hábil. Habría viajado con la corte. Los cocineros formaban parte de la corte real, pero a menudo los miembros de la realeza contrataban cocineros privados para su propio uso.
Sirvienta: La sirvienta limpia el castillo. Ella barrería los pisos, los fregaría, vaciaría los orinales, se desharía de las cenizas del fuego y prepararía el fuego en las habitaciones para más tarde. La sirvienta arreglaba la cama o quitaba las sábanas para las lavanderas. Lavaba todo lo que necesitaba ser lavado, incluidos muebles y adornos. Probablemente no era una sirvienta ambulante y estaría estrictamente empleada en un solo palacio.
Bufón: El bufón era el artista contratado. Trabajando con el maestro de las juergas, el bufón tenía la abrumadora tarea de hacer reír al monarca y a su familia. Contaría chistes, contaría historias, causaría estragos en la corte para reír y aligerar el ánimo. El bufón más exitoso de todos los tiempos fue Will Somers, bufón de Enrique VIII. Will le dio malas noticias al monarca infamemente malhumorado y se salió con la suya con cosas que hubieran enviado a otros a la cuadra. Will sobrevivió la mayor parte del reinado de Henry, con la cabeza intacta. Los bufones eran parte de la casa principal, aunque cada miembro de la realeza podría tener uno propio.
Posiciones dentro de la Casa Real ~ Los nobles
La nobleza siempre fue bienvenida en la corte. Comían en la corte, dormían en la corte y atendían al monarca. Algunos nobles tuvieron que cantar durante la cena y la mayoría fueron contratados como sirvientes reales. No estaban exactamente fregando pisos y se les pagaría generosamente con tierra que les generaría riqueza.
El mayordomo / senescal: esta persona era el jefe del personal real. Tendría la tarea de administrar las tierras y los sirvientes de su amo o señora. El mayordomo sirvió como respaldo y asistente en todas las tareas, incluso representando a su señor o señora cuando no estaban disponibles. Sería un noble de alto rango. Cada casa real tendría uno.
Tesorero de la corte: El tesorero era el contador y el maestro de pagos. Estaba a cargo de asegurar que se liquidaran las deudas, que se pagaran los salarios y que el hogar funcionara dentro del presupuesto. Este fue un puesto codiciado porque le daba al tesorero una idea de la situación financiera de la realeza. Tal información valía su peso en oro. Cada miembro de la realeza tendría uno.
Ujier: El ujier estaba a cargo de escoltar a los invitados a las cámaras reales y a la presencia real. Actuaría como un intermediario entre su señor / señora y el invitado, a menudo yendo y viniendo con mensajes. Era tan codiciado como el puesto de chambelán pero con menos responsabilidades.
Jefe de caballerizas: Se encargaba de atender a los caballos de su amo. Supervisaba a los mozos de cuadra que estaban empleados en los establos para cuidar a los caballos. También debía asegurarse que los establos estuvieran en orden y los caballos estuvieran a la altura para llevar la realeza en todo el reino. Cada miembro de la realeza tendría uno, pero habría uno principal que actuaría como supervisor.
Master of the Wardrobe/Mistress of the Robes (Maestro del guardarropa / maestra de las túnicas): estos son los nobles que se emplean para cuidar la ropa de la realeza a la que sirven. Esto implicaría principalmente una posición gerencial, supervisando el inventario del guardarropa real (un edificio similar a un almacén que albergaba la ropa) y haciendo pedidos de ropa nueva. Era un trabajo ordenado que rara vez implicaba ensuciarse las manos. Cada miembro de la realeza tendría uno.
Chambelán / ayuda de cámara: El chambelán se encarga de cuidar el dormitorio del Señor. Este era el puesto más buscado, ya que efectivamente era la puerta de entrada a la presencia real. Su tarea principal era asegurarse de que su señor estuviera cómodo y feliz. Podría ser un plebeyo bien nacido o un noble. Cada miembro de la realeza tendría uno.
El page: todas las casas reales tenían pages. Eran jóvenes nobles de unos siete años enviados a su señor real. El page se encargaría de ordenar los restos del señor, llevar mensajes a otros sirvientes y ocupantes del castillo y servirle en las comidas. A diferencia de otros en la lista, los pages no tenñian sueldo. Su experiencia era su recompensa, ya que aprenderían el funcionamiento de una corte y cómo comportarse. Cada miembro de la realeza tendría uno.
Escuderos : Los escuderos eran como pajes, aunque solo servían a los hombres. Acompañarían a su señor real a la batalla, cuidarían su armadura y cota de malla, se asegurarían de que el caballo de su amo estuviera ensillado y cuidarían las armas de su señor. El escudero siempre sería un joven noble a punto de convertirse en caballero.
Institutriz: La institutriz era una mujer noble empleada para supervisar los niños del señor de la corte. Ella sería la primera maestra que tendría un niño y supervisaría a las niñeras que se ocuparían del bienestar físico del niño. La nombrarían cuando el niño tuviera cuatro o cinco años. Las institutrices notables incluyen a Katherine Swynford (esposa de John de Gaunt y madre de la línea Beaufort), Margaret Pole (esposa de Tudor, el leal Sir Richard Pole, hermana del último heredero de York, Eduardo de Warwick, hija de George Duque de Clarence y sobrina del rey. Eduardo VI y Ricardo III), Kat Ashley, Margaret Bryan, Madame de Maintenon y la baronesa Lehzen. La mayoría de las princesas solteras conservaban a sus institutrices, mientras que los príncipes generalmente las despedían tras haber crecido.
Señores de la Cámara Privada: Eran los compañeros masculinos de un rey o un príncipe, algo así como damas de compañía pero en hombres. Acompañarían al Rey o Príncipe a dondequiera que fuera y compartirían deberes con el Novio del Taburete (dispensador de papel higiénico real) y el Jefe de la Cámara (supervisando al personal y manteniendo la cámara). Ayudarían a su amo a prepararse, lo servirían en la mesa y organizarían la caza y los juegos para mantenerlo entretenido. Los caballeros y compañeros eran elegidos a menudo por sus conexiones, así como por la propia opinión de su amo. Los caballeros de Enrique VIII incluyeron: Sir William Compton (pupilo de Enrique VII y heredero de tierras ricas), Sir Henry Norris (el nieto de William Norris que luchó con el padre de Enrique en Stroke y un pariente de los Yorkistas Lovells),
Damas de compañía, doncellas (de compañía): Estas eran las asistentes femeninas de la Reina o Princesa. Las Damas de compañía estaban casadas mientras que las Doncellas estaban solteras. Tenían que atender a su ama donde quiera que esta fuera, ayudarla a prepararse, mantener sus aposentos en orden, escribir cartas para la reina y mantener su honor. Eran elegidas por sus conexiones. Tomando a Catalina de Aragón como ejemplo, sus Damas de compañía incluyeron: María de Salinas (hija de Juan Sancriz de Salinas, secretario de Isabel, Princesa de Portugal y cortesana española al servicio de los padres de Catalina, esposa del Barón Willoughby de Ersby), Elizabeth Howard (hija de Thomas Howard, segundo duque de Norfolk, hermana de Thomas Howard, tercer duque de Norfolk y esposa de Thomas Boleyn, embajador en Francia), Anne Hastings (hija de William Hastings, primer barón Hastings, esposa de George Talbot , se casó con Sir George Hastings, conde de Huntington e hija de Henry Stafford, segundo duque de Buckingham (primo del rey) y Lady Katherine Woodville (hermana de la abuela del rey Enrique VIII y su tía abuela por matrimonio), Elizabeth Stafford (hermana de Anne Robert Radcliffe, esposa de Stafford, Lord Fitzwalter y conde de Sussex). Sus conexiones son lo que les dio su lugar y puedes ver por qué fueron elegidos.
Alojamiento
El alojamiento puede ser algo difícil de clasificar tanto como escritor como como administrador. Es posible que tengas un palacio de más de 200 dormitorios en los que debes albergar un personal de 500 personas más o menos, una cantidad variable de nobles, la familia real (de una cantidad variable) y sus propias cortes. Al asignar habitaciones, es mejor pensar en una muñeca rusa. Empieza desde el interior y avanza hacia el exterior.
Las mejores habitaciones son para el monarca, su consorte y sus hijos / hermanos / padres. Estas cámaras incluirían el dormitorio, un salón / área común, un retrete, un armario (una pequeña cámara que se puede usar para la oración o el trabajo). Serían provistos con la mejor tela, las mejores velas y cualquier mueble que trajera el residente, ya que la mayoría de las cortes reales viajaban de palacio en palacio. También tendrán habitaciones para sus sirvientes personales, como damas de compañía.
El segundo mejor conjunto de habitaciones iría a los nobles / personas de mayor rango en la corte. Estas habitaciones serían menos elegantes y un poco más pequeñas. Estos serían otorgados a la nobleza titulada que desciende de los de rango ducal (duques / duquesas) o incluso a miembros del consejo como Thomas Cromwell en la época de los Tudor.
El siguiente conjunto sería considerablemente más pequeño, quizás sin un armario o un salón. Dado a la baja nobleza.
El siguiente nivel de cámaras sería más pequeño, quizás solo el dormitorio y un área común para los nobles menores.
El último conjunto de habitaciones sería pequeño y solo tendría espacio suficiente para un dormitorio. Los criados tendrían que dormir en el suelo en jergones junto a sus amos.
Cualquier otro invitado en la corte tendría que permanecer en lugares fuera del sitio alrededor del palacio en la ciudad. Algunos nobles debían quedarse en casas alrededor de palacios importantes si llegaban tarde o eran expulsados ​​de la corte.
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une-sanz-pluis · 1 year ago
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Hi there! I was wondering if Margaret of Anjou was still alive by the time Henry VII won, would she have been allowed back at England?
Hi! I think Henry VII would have almost certainly wanted her to return to England. While they never actually met, Margaret appears to have been close to his uncle, Jasper Tudor, so her return could have been the result of Jasper's advocation. Margaret's presence could have an legitimising effect on Henry VII's presentation as the Lancastrian heir and the opposer of Yorkist rule. At the very least, presenting himself as Henry VI's heir while Henry VI's widow lived in obscurity and (relative) poverty in France wouldn't have been a great look.
There would have been logistical problems, however. Louis XI had paid a huge ransom for custody of Margaret (50,000 crowns), as well as forcing her to sign over her claim to her father's lands. Probably, any attempt to have Margaret return to England would have required negotiations with Louis XI, promises that Henry would not assist Margaret assert any claims she had to French territories or estates and the repayment of her ransom. I'm not very knowledgable about Henry's diplomatic relationship with France (I'm sure @richmond-rex would know better than me on a lot of this!) but I could see there being difficulties. Was there a broader political will for Margaret's return? Could Henry's government afford? I could see it being put in the "too hard, too expensive" basket, and Henry returning instead to lobby Louis that Margaret be given an increased pension to support herself on.
If Margaret did return to England, she would also have to be provided for as a dowager queen - again, keeping her in relative poverty was not a good look, especially now that it was Henry's responsibility. Henry VII was already having to pay the dowers of two queens (Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Woodville), a third dower would have added to the strain. Worse, Margaret's original dower was considerably higher at 10,000 marks (around £6,667) than the £4500 dower both Elizabeths received). Of course, Margaret would have probably been forced to accept a reduced dower but it wouldn't have made that big a difference on the finances. The best scenario for Henry would be if Margaret followed Elizabeth Woodville's example and gave up her dower to retire to an abbey. But this doesn't seem to be something Margaret wanted for herself - she never sought this out in France, even when money was very tight for her. All of these solutions - reducing her dower, not paying it at all, pushing her to retire into an abbey - were potential minefields for Henry's image as a Lancastrian and a just king.
All of this supposes that Margaret herself wanted to return to England. She may have wanted to return to be close to those allies who had survived the Wars of the Roses, she may have wanted to return to provide better opportunities for her followers like Katherine Vaux (who had remained with her until her death), she may have wanted to return to be closer to the graves of her husband and son, or to better her financial situation. She may not have wanted to serve as a legitimising presence for a new regime, she may have found it painful to return to England after the loss of her husband and son, or been wary of how this new regime would treat her. Given how England had treated her under both Lancaster and York, she may have preferred to turn her back on the country and remain in France. At the same time, her feelings possibly wouldn't have carried much weight - Louis was hardly going to take notice of her opinions when she was all that stood between him and a wad of cash.
An interesting question, one that I don't have an answer for, is how Margaret's survival into Tudor rule would impact on her reputation. Her negative reputation, as promoted by Yorkist writers, was largely accepted and expanded upon by Tudor writers (e.g. the claims she had an affair with William de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk and had been responsible with him for the supposed murder of "Good Duke Humphrey" were 16th century inventions), until it cumulated in Shakespeare's vengeful she-wolf. I think there's a podcast where Katherine J. Lewis remarked that Tudor writers tended to make Margaret the sinner to Henry VI's saint, making her absorb the blame for the "sins" or failures of Lancastrian rule while making Henry blameless. If Margaret had lived and had returned with honour to England, she might have been depicted more positively, more in the line of a tragic heroine as she was in France. Whether or not that more positive depiction would have lasted is another question, especially if she was seen as a financial drain on the country.
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richmond-rex · 1 year ago
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Hi! Thanks for adding to this post! I think I’ve read that speculation about Katherine Haute sometime before too. Katherine Plantagenet’s young age (possibly younger than it’s usually assumed) also makes sense — I did not want to emphasise it that much in the ask I linked because I’m always afraid people will simply take it as me having a problem with Richard III (aka being a hater for the sake of being a hater) but yes, I think it’s very significant that her young age was emphasised. If we forced it, we could argue that she was at least twelve in 1484, the minimal age accepted by the Church for girls to marry, but Margaret Beaufort was married to her first husband, John de la Pole, when she was only six, so that’s certainly not an age guarantee. It’s a pity that she did not survive to the end of 1489, so she certainly died young too. 
Hello! I was wondering if you know when Richard III's two known illegitimate children were born and who their mothers were?
I've noticed that Ricardians, whenever asked, usually resort to claiming that they were born before his marriage to Anne Neville. Which is possible, of course, but really there's no actual evidence or even indication of it? So I'm not sure why this claim is so persistently made other than the belief in Richard III's apparent "virtue" (which I've quoted because it's the word most commonly used)
Hi! Sorry for taking so long to reply! It's especially wild to see how it's so common to compare Richard's virtue to Edward IV's alleged lack of one. It is baffling to me that people don't realise that kind of thinking was entirely fabricated by Richard himself after his brother's demise so that his takeover could look more legitimate: a righteous man putting the corrupted kingdom in order. But what am I saying? According to them, propaganda was invented by Henry VII, so!
I like to point out that both brothers had almost the same number of acknowledged illegitimate children. And yes, despite some insistence to the contrary, it's entirely possible the illegitimate children Richard acknowledged were born during his marriage to Anne Neville, as I pointed out in this ask. We don't know for sure the identity of their mothers either, sadly.
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thebritishmonarchycouk · 4 years ago
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#otd 3 November 1456 – Edmund Tudor, 1st Earl of Richmond died
He was a member of the Tudor family of Penmynydd, North Wales.
Born in 1431 to Owen Tudor & the dowager queen Catherine of Valois, Edmund was half-brother to Henry VI of England. Edmund was raised for several years by Katherine de la Pole & Henry took an interest in Edmund's upbringing, granting him a title & lands once he came of age. Both Edmund & his brother, Jasper, were made advisers to the King, as they were his closest remaining blood relatives.
The brothers were made senior earls in the royal court & had influential positions in the Parliament of England. Edmund was also granted Baynard's Castle, London, & ran a successful estate. He was married to Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond and Derby, after her first marriage was annulled.
Prior to the start of the Wars of the Roses, Edmund liaised with Richard of York & supported him when the King fell ill during 1453-1454. After war began in 1455, York sent Edmund to uphold the authority of the King in South Wales. While he was there, York was overthrown by the King &, in retaliation, Yorkist forces were sent to engage those of Tudor's in South Wales. Edmund was captured at Carmarthen Castle, where he died of the bubonic plague on 3 November 1456.
For more royal history visit: www.thebritishmonarchy.co.uk
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margueritedanjou · 5 years ago
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Alternative universe: the story of Margaret Tudor, duchess of Somerset; countess of Rivers; countess of Oxford.
Born: summer, 1440. Dead: winter, 1520.
Mother: Catherine of Valois, Princess of France and Queen of England.
Father: Owen Tudor, a welsh courtier.
Siblings: Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond; Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke and later Duke of Bedford; Owen Tudor, a monk; Daffydd Tudor, a knight.
Wife to: Henry Beaufort, 3rd duke of Somerset; Anthony Woodville, Earl Rivers; John de Vere, 13th Earl of Oxford. 
-//-
Summer 1440, Hatfield Palace.
In the first hours of a day of late June that year of 1440, former queen of England, Catherine de Valois, struggled to give birth one last time at Hatfield Palace, usual home place of powerful bishops. It was an experience that she was much accostumed to: she was only twenty years of age by the time she gave birth to her royal son, the current king Henry VI of England. After she took the man responsible for her wardrobe as a second husband, the handsome welshman responsible for capturing her heart, Catherine delivered three healthy sons. Edmund, Jasper and Owen, she loved all of them dearly.
Watch them grow, despite the difficult circumnstances ultimately provoked by her former brother by law Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, was a privilege Catherine had much to be thankful for. She lived a quiet life, away from that troublesome court, every now and then in touch with her oldest boy. 
But now, she grew weaker at every effor as she was told to push the baby. Once she did, though, a midwife held the newborn in her arms and told the french princess that this time... the child was a girl.
“A girl”, whispered Catherine, faintly. “Oh, thank the Lord! I’ve been longing for a girl!”
The midwife smiled upon Catherine and slowly gave the baby, now cleansed, to the dowager queen’s arms. 
“How should be named?”
In return, Catherine beamed.
“Margaret”, she told the woman. “After my lover’s late mother.”
*                                                    *                                                               *
Margaret’s early years were not easy. Her mother died as a result of complications due to her long labour. Her half-brother’s council was outraged because Queen Catherine married without the royal approval and thus imprisoned Owen and had the children as wards to Katherine de la Pole, abbess of Barking Abbey and an older sister to Henry VI’s favourite, William de la Pole, earl of Suffolk.
There, Margaret was raised with her elder brothers, although most of her time was spent with the nuns, receiving a proper education accordingly the will of the king of England, her older half-brother for she was too a daughter of royalty through their mother’s side. But not too long she was destined to remain there even though the nuns held some expectation that she’d take the vows. Once released, Owen took his younger daughter under his care as well as that of his eldest sons, although the third one was sent to the Church. 
Not soon after they were released, they were sent to court. By the time, Margaret was nearly eight years of age and had indications she would become a beautiful woman in due time: she had inherited the french traces of her mother, the golden hair and the blue eyes, although her nose and lips much reminded of her father. She was tall for her age and gracious, of sweet temper and quick wit. To Owen’s delight, Margaret was a curious young lady, which again reminded him much of Catherine.
“Father, does His Grace know about me?” She was already aware that her older half-brother was the sovereign of England. “Do you think he will like me?”
As she was his only daughter, Owen was very much protective towards Margaret. He smiled upon her and said:
“Of course he will. There is nothing to be concerned with, just remember to curtsy and always be kind.”
Edmund and Jasper, who were by his side, smiled. The recently ennobled Earl of Richmond added:
“Our brother is very curious to know you, little sister. We’ve assured you that you are the most pious and graceful sister he could have.”
Margaret beam in delight, but she looked at Owen as if in look for confirmation. Owen chuckled.
“He is telling the truth, Meg.” But he did not say that Henry VI wished that his sister had a life amongst the nuns. A sigh escaped him and the concern in his eyes did not go unnoticed by Jasper, who said:
“What’s wrong, father? What worries you?”
Owen decided to tell the truth:
“I did not wish to see Meg spend her entire life within those walls. I wish she had a good life as you boys are entitled to have.”
Edmund pondered at this:
“Perhaps you could tell the king this, then? I’m sure our brother is not unreasonable if you shared his concerns.”
Aware of Henry VI’s pious nature, Owen smirked.
“I am not very sure about that, son.” 
“Or we could appeal to it through his wife, the queen.” Jasper suggested. “She is fond of us just as much.”
Owen pondered this for a moment. He was very fond and protective to Margaret, but he knew Catherine’s wishes would line with his own: his wife once nearly took the vows in her youth, something she never really wanted to. In order to prevent this, she had to convince Queen Isabeau that a marriage to the king of England would be best for their country. That way, it was Catherine’s sister who became a nun, not her.
“I suppose we could do that, but let’s see how this reunion will go.”
Margaret heard it all, not understanding what were the meaning of the look on their faces. They were at court and about to meet the king. What could possibly go wrong?
*                                                                  *                                                *
Even though she was not beyond eight years of age, Margaret knew how to behave herself. She could not forget her manners even if she wanted to, and after she was being schooled by a lady of the Queen’s choice, it was time to meet her brother... and her sister by law.
That day she was dressed accordingly the fashion, styled in a velvet purple gown adequated to her height and chidish body. Margaret’s golden hair remained loose, but carefully combed. Once the lady dressed her and summoned after her brothers and father, they were all ready to go.
Margaret was aware she descended from a long lineage of Valois kings, amongst whom there were two or three saints, although only one was recognized as king. However, she too knew well that thanks to her connection with her brother, the kind man who ruled England and whose devotion was very known, owed her loyalty to the House of Lancaster. But little Meg feared they could ask her questions regarding Henry VI’s ancestry so that she looked at her father and said:
“Will they ask me about His Grace’s family background? I cannot remember his grandfather’s name or how he became king.”
Owen chuckled and so did his sons. Margaret frowned upon them.
“We are not laughing at you, Meg,” he explained, smiling. “But you are a very sagacious and precocious child. He will not expect you to know that, nor will he ask you such a thing. Calm yourself.”
The court was in a merry mood that day, despite the growing tensions between the factions of the Houses of York and Lancaster. Unaware of this, all Margaret cared for was to please her brother.
Once she was announced, the king and the queen looked curiously at that little girl who was eager for their approval. In turn, Margaret was in awe at how they sat regally on their thrones: the image of the king, who surpassed the twenty’s  but still looked young and handsome, sided by his wife, a redhead french woman with fierce but gentle eyes, had Margaret inspired.
“Step forward, little sister.” The king gently commanded and smiled at her. “Do not fret. I might be king, but I’m still your brother.”
Margaret smiled childshily and the queen found herself at the urge to look after that motherless young girl. The blond little one dropped a curtsy graciously and blushed when seeing the queen smiling broadly at her.
“How should I call you?” The queen asked.
“Margaret Tudor, Your Grace.” She replied, anxiously. “I am most pleased that God thought good for me to be at the presence of both of you.”
Henry and Margaret smiled at her. One very pleased for her piety, and the other for how gracious was her manners.
“We think the same, young Margaret.” Said the king. “You remember me much of our dear late mother, may God have her soul. I lament you have no recollection of her at all.”
Margaret blinked, unsure of what to say. Seeing the matter was a sensitive one for the young girl, the queen thought wise to interfere.
“It is very pleasant for me to see we have same names”, said Margaret of Anjou. “I was named after Saint Margaret, she was good and strong and wise saint.”
At a more comfortable matter to speak of, Margaret smiled at her royal sister-by-law.
“That is true, my lady. When I was raised at Barking Abbey, I’ve read about many saints, she is one of my favourite too.”
Queen Margaret nodded in approval. Henry, just as approving, said:
“It looks to me you were taught well in religious matters, my sister.” 
The conversation did not go too long, but as Margaret relaxed, she found herself chatty again--but never too forward to forget her manners. From afar, Owen and his oldest sons watched as the scene went on. He smiled in relief:
“Looks like the king and the queen took a like on her.”
“How could they not?” Said Edmund, with a proud smile on his lips. “She’s a very sweet little girl. I’m sure that the queen will not allow her to be sent to a monastery life.”
As they predicted, Margaret of Anjou convinced her husband that his sister could not be sent to Barking Abbey. Instead, she would educate the girl herself, for likewise, Margaret Tudor was a french princess. That decision would mark the Tudor’s life for good.
*                                                                *                                                    *
Despite the difficult parting from his children, Owen was most pleased to see how life was developing for his offspring. Edmund, Jasper and Margaret were all serving the king, their older half-brother. Whilst the former two at times went to Wales to perform royal duties on behalf of Henry VI, Margaret was still being educated by Queen Margaret, as part of her household, and was admitted as her dame of honour.
As years went by and tensions were becoming each time more evident at court, Margaret Tudor began to fear that a civil war could happen at any time. Edmund Beaufort rose to proeminence after the fall of William de la Pole, who was killed upon his leaving to exile. Accordingly to what she heard amongst the royal ladies loyal to Queen Margaret, the Duke of Suffolk was held hostage by pirates who assaulted him and when noticing how valuable -but equally unpopular- he was, the man was decapitated and his body was thrown to the sea. He was found at the sands the next day.
This Tudor girl had never been so frightening as the day she saw her royal sister-by-law frantically cry and angrily curse her enemies. Margaret also witnesed the close bond between the dowager Duchess and the queen. Luckily for her, Jacquetta Woodville saw to this matter would not take Margaret’s mind for so long. In fact, it was by this time that Margaret became friends with Jacquetta’s oldest daughter, a beautiful girl named Elizabeth. 
“This can be a lonely place”, Margaret confided her Woodville friend once. “I’m glad that we are able to bond.”
“People can really be ruthless here”, Elizabeth agreed, happy to make a good friend amongs the false ladies whom she had the unfortunate moment to stress herself with. “Or ambitious. I don’t see how these girls are better than us. My mother comes from an ancient house of France and yours was the queen of England herself!”
Margaret smiled at that.
“I give you true to that, but what does it matter anyway? I’m most happy that the queen, my sister by law, took me to her wings. I was afraid I’d live a monastery life. Not that I would mind that, but...”
“...but you want to see more of the world”, Elizabeth completed and here she smiled too. “There is nothing wrong with that, but I don’t think court gives you another perspective of it. We only move from one royal household to another, and there is not much we can do. Although, as ladies of the queen, we have relatively more freedom than others of higher rank.”
“You are not wrong in that.” Margaret contemplated. They were sewing that day as Margaret and her closest ladies were in the chapel, in prayers. “I was wondering, what are your thoughts of marrying?”
Elizabeth rose her eyes to meet her friends’ and Margaret noticed how stormy they could be. Had Margaret been any more observing, she would have seen something... perhaps... ambitious there?
“I confess I’d like to marry for love like my mother did”, she admitted. “But I need to remember that, first and foremost, I must live a comfortable life. If my husband has a good career and looks after me, it’s all well.”
Margaret took notice that she, too, was a product of a love story. Suddenly, she missed her father.
“I think I’d like that too. But I see it’s not impossible to find love.” She thought of the queen and the king, and how they loved each other. Margaret had heard rumours of the opposite, but she could tell they were untrue. She could see the pride, the concern and the love in Queen Margaret’s eyes everytime she spoke with King Henry. 
As if Elizabeth read her mind, the girl with auburn hair spoke gently:
“I don’t think if it is either, but we must not expect too much in spite of our backgrounds.”
“Duty is what matters, I suppose.” Margaret said, almost to herself. “But I’m glad that we have each other.”
And Elizabeth genuinely smiled at her Tudor friend. “I reciprocate the feeling, my friend. I truly do.”
So the bound between them was formed.
*                                                                  *                                                    *
As Margaret grew, it was not a surprise to anyone who met her in her early years that she would become a very handsome woman. In her fifteen years, she was already a renowned beauty like her friend, Elizabeth Woodville.
By the time her father came to court, it was all of her golden locks, her sweet smile and those blue eyes that mirrored cloudless skies that men talked and poets praised. When hearing of it, Owen quickly sought after Edmund and Jasper to share his concerns, but the former was the one to rapidly assure his father that she had a good reputation and was one to be sought by many men of good position at court.
“It is time for her to marry”, he opined. 
“I see you are going to too.” Owen smiled. “I’ve heard lady Margaret Beaufort is to be your bride.”
“Aye.” Edmund smiled. “But I believe I’m not the only Tudor to marry a Beaufort, father.”
Looking puzzled from one to another, Owen questioned:
“Jasper...?”
But Jasper shook his head. “Nay, father. The one he speaks of is our sister, Meg. The queen suggested to marry her to Edmund Beaufort’s son and heir, Henry. That way she becomes duchess of Somerset.”
Owen could not believe what he heard. “Does Meg know of this?”
Edmund smiled, and his father could nearly spot something mischievous in his son’s eyes.
“Nay, but she will soon be told of this betrothal.”
However, far more serious was Jasper, who added:
“It’s safer for her if she leaves court now. Tensions are growing worse each day, and I find more difficult to conciliate both parties”, he said, referring himself to the opposition led by the duke of York, Richard Plantagenet, against the rule of the house of Lancaster.
Owen sighed and lamented for placing his daughter at court in the midst of the confusion. But, he asked himself, could ever there be a different future for Margaret?
*                                                                 *                                                *
A day after Edmund Tudor espoused Margaret Beaufort, it was the turn for Margaret Tudor to have her day. She was very excited, as a lady in her position should be, and by now she confided every little thing to the queen, whom she saw as much as the sister she never had, but also a mother figure that Queen Margaret felt in her right to play such a role.
“He is a nice man, of good character despite his temper”, said the queen. “But Henry has taken an eye of you ever since he was brought to court, I’ve noticed it. His father was a good man and so is his son. I’d not give you away to him if I thought otherwise.”
“I know, Your Grace, and I’m thankful for the concern you display towards me”,Margaret appreciated the gesture. “I hope this match proves to be fruitful for our house.”
The queen smiled, she had really taken a great fondness for her Tudor sister-by-law. “Your loyalty is enough for us, my child. Your brother is very glad for this.”
Henry Beaufort was, truly, a handsome man. Margaret knew she was blessed in that matter, and courtship seemed to have been done well. He was good, kind, and of a gentle heart. The duke of Somerset was tall and often dressed in rich, velvet robes; his face was clean of beard, due to his young age, but still had beautiful features to look at. He had green eyes and a charming smile which enchanted Margaret.
This was a marriage that, despite its arrangements, would prove to be a loving one. For the Tudors, and the Beauforts, this was a perfect timing for rising.
*                                                          *                                                        *
Sometime before 1460, the new duchess of Somerset’s older brother died of plague. Which was as a result of a poorly treatment given to Edmund in his imprisonment during an indirect conflict against the men who were loyal to the duke of York. 
Margaret did not take the news well, and the memories she cherished of the earl of Richmond only broke her heart further. Soon enough, she understood why Henry was so involved in a long-time-seeking vengeance for what was done to his father.
“I absolutely despise the Yorkists!” She cried out as her husband gave them news. “My whole family is at Wales and I cannot offer them my condolences, my comfort...Or anything at all!”
Henry felt for his wife. Unlike her, he was not obliged to leave his home and had his relatives nearby. But he comforted her the way a husband would, and vowed that they would avenge the death of Richmond someday. 
“Time will be in our favour.”
She looked into his eyes and a smile curled upon her lips. “I love you.” Margaret whispered ever so passionately. 
Henry, who was lucky enough to find love in an arranged marriaged, caressed his wife’s face and said: “And I, you, my precious Meg.”
*                                                              *                                                       *
Despite the happiness in domestic affairs, the wheel of fortune seemed to turn again. As both Tudor ladies formed a bound through letters, another tragedy seemed to blow their house: the death of Owen Tudor in 1461 by the forces of Edward, earl of March who recently became the duke of York as his father had been killed in the year before as a result of the clash of Yorkist forces against the Lancastrians. Margaret of Anjou demanded had York and his second son, Edmund’s heads to be exhibited after the battle that resulted in their deaths to prevent enemies for conspiring against the royal force.
The duchess of Somerset was devastated, as her sister by law and her brother were forced to flee at the same time. Edward of York was now declared King Edward IV and there was nothing they could do but to pledge allegiance to the new king.
Those were difficult times for Margaret, who remained in contact with Jasper and Margaret Beaufort, who was now lady Stafford. At the age of 20, Margaret was close to deliver her first born child (she suffered two miscarriages previously) so she could not attend court. But as they could have their lands forfeit for treason, there was nothing they could do except... to fake a swift loyalty to the victor’s side. 
Advised not to remain in contact with Margaret of Anjou by her husband, the duchess agreed and moved to her mother-by-law’s household in her London apartments so there she could give in labour peacefully. It was there that Margaret gave birth to her son, whom she named Owen after her father. 
“It is a very Welsh name, lady Margaret.” Eleanor Beauchamp commented once the healthy and robust boy was born. “But I understand the difficult circumnstances that led you to this choice. I comprehend it too well”, she sighed, in reference to the death of her husband in battlefield.
“I detest wars”, Margaret said, unable to hold back her weeping. “I miss them. My father and my brother. May God bless their souls.”
“Amen.”
In quiet support of each other, the women observed as the midwives looked after their first Somerset heir born in troubled times. But good news would not take long to reach them.
*                                                                 *                                                    *
Edward the Fourth was very keen to forgive the Beaufort’s treason and, after the churching period, welcomed too lady Margaret Tudor, duchess of Somerset, at his court. There, she saw her husband grow to become the new king’s best friend and attract displeasures from the Yorkists supporters, especially the Earl of Warwick who disapproved this new bounding between the men.
The lack of a queen figure at court did not go unnoticed by Margaret, who remembered her french sister-by-law occupying the now vacant consort throne. Under Margaret of Anjou’s watchful eye, courtiers danced and the musicians played sweet tones of music. She could remember the queen instinguing her for dancing with her other ladies. 
But now, not many danced and the musicians changed. The duchess of Somerset felt somewhat at uneasy and lost, and she missed her family dearly. She wished she could have stayed at lady Beauchamp’s apartaments, but her husband asked her not to: they had to earn the king’s favour to survive these new times.
Therefore, there she was, a Tudor-Beaufort lady looking for the best way to survive whilst protecting her family’s interests. But how long was there before something happened?
*                                                               *                                                     *
Despite the early difficulties to produce an heir, Margaret had given birth to a boy whom she named Owen after her father. Another one was to come next, named Edmund after her brother and Henry’s own father. The family seemed to grown quite fast for she was once again pregnant when Edmund was being christinized. As the boy’s godparents, she chose Margaret Beaufort, lady Stanley and her second husband.
“I’m very honoured you have me in your thoughts”, lady Stanley told her the day they met. “Edmund would appreciate that.”
“I know he would.” Margaret smiled. “I could never forget you and nothing pleases me more than looking after you, despite knowing you are able to look after youself.”
Both women chuckled and the duchess of Somerset inquires after her nephew, Henry, the new Earl of Richmond, who is in custody of William Herbert.
“He is doing well, thank the Lord for that. Robust as ever.” The dowager countess of Richmond told her proudly. “He is being well tutored, as he should be. I’ve recently visited him, but I’m hoping to have his ward back again in due time.”
Margaret nodded. 
“I’ll do whatever is in my power to help easy things.” She said firmly, even more aware of the advantages of her husband being a close ally to Edward IV now.
To which lady Stanley smiled, almost thrilled. “Thank you for your kindness, my sister. This shall not be forgotten.”
*                                                                  *                                                  *
A girl was born in 1463 and received the name Catherine, after Margaret’s mother. She gladly shared her thoughts of the birth with her husband when he came for a visit:
“She was named after her french grandmother.” 
Henry grinned.
“I sometimes cannot believe my connections. Our children have the Valois’ blood.” And mischievously he added: “Could you conceal having our Owen becoming king of France some time?”
At which Margaret laughed. “Don’t get me started with another war against France, my dear.”
Such was the blissful scenario of a domestic home.
*                                                                *                                                      *
Right before Edward IV’s annoucement that England had a new queen, Margaret surprisingly found herself pregnant again. Just as important, she received news from Jasper, but also... curiously, from Elizabeth Woodville, formerly lady Grey.
“Henry!” She called out for him: they were at their privy chambers located at Windsor Castle. “I have two news for you.”
Henry arched his eyebrows, curiosity in his eyes. Recently, he had been reconsidering switch sides back to their house again, but Jasper asked him to delay the “treasonous” plans for later. Margaret, despite as supportive of this as any other in her position (she was a Lancastrian in heart, after all), feared the consequences of this. She was no fool to see how peaceful was the realm under the rule of Edward IV and how loved he was by his people. Regardless, she knew the right of throne belonged to Henry VI, not that man.
“Well, tell me, woman.” Henry instigated. “I am curious.”
She decided to share Jasper’s news first. The Scottish decided to support their cause, so it is almost certain they could work on a new invasion soon. He thus expected that his brother-by-law would raise men to his cause. She also told him that Elizabeth Woodville came after her, asking news about court. 
“I find rather odd that she, as a mother of two and a widow, looks for a way to go back to court”, Henry said.
“She wants my help to interfere on behalf of her rights of dowry, as her husband was killed on our house’s side, so the lands were forfeit to the crown.” And she added. “You must delay Jasper’s plan for a little moment until this is done. I promised her I would do what I could do in my power to aid her cause.”
Henry sighed.
“Was she really that good of a friend?”
At what Margaret smiled, recollecting good memories of old days. 
“Yes, she was. She worths the risk, I suppose.”
*                                                           *                                                          *
But Margaret was shocked to see that there was another intent behind Elizabeth Woodville’s letter to her old friend. Seeking Margaret’s help meant she required to know how court actually worked because she was now the queen of England. When news reached the duchess of Somerset, and that she was summoned at court... the timing could have not been worse.
Henry, seeing where this was going to do, reluctantly admitted to Jasper that he could not aid yet. He would wait until the birth of their next child, and the duke prayed that no harm would befall to his wife. Therefore, he did not tell his duchess the plan he had in mind.
Despite her state, she managed to be received by the new queen, completely unaware of Henry’s plan. 
“You look glowing, my friend!” Elizabeth Woodville exclaimed when receiving the duchess of Somerset in her privy chambers. “I know these circumnstances are far from what we have planned long time ago, but the wheel of fortune can be surprising.”
Margaret worked to smile as well as she could. If by one side she was genuinely happy for seeing her friend again, by the other... she disapproved the new queen’s actions. But as the new consort of England said, the wheel of fortune was really surprising and to that there was no arguing.
“Indeed. You are still as beautiful as the last time we’ve said goodbye to each other.” 
Elizabeth smiled. “Why thank you, I could say the same to you.” She stood and moved to hold the other woman’s hands into her own. “I am truly thankful that you are here, my dear friend. I know not many will take me as their queen, so you are the only one I can truly trust.”
Despite the disprobation, Margaret admitted:
“You are like a sister to me and now my queen. I’m glad that God reunited us.”
Much to her surprise, the queen embraced her in a relief. By this gesture, the duchess of Somerset could tell she had enemies enough to rely on her. But will it be enough for them to endure? Margaret could not tell, instead, she only enjoyed her old friend’s company, forgetting they were different in status now.
*                                                         *                                                              *
It was during the difficult labour Margaret went through that King Edward found out about the duke’s treasonous act. He was so enraged that he rode north to destroy him. Henry knew the risks, and went on with his brothers to join Jasper, Henry VI and the queen. Those were difficult days and it was thankful to the queen’s influence that the duchess was spared of the royal’s rage.
Another health child was born, another girl whom she decided to name Elizabeth after the queen. In completely ignorance of her husband’s plans, she invited her friend to be the child’s godmother. But it was only a matter of time before all matters went worse.
*                                                      *                                                             *
“We must talk”. The queen, at first coldly, dismissed the ladies and invited the duchess for a private conversation. “Are you aware of how recent events were unfolded?”
Margaret Tudor could not hide her red eyes for longer. After churching, she was told that she was now a widow. And because of the treacherous act of Henry Beaufort, all lands were reversed for the crown. Their children, though, were under the queen’s supervision. 
“I was not aware. I swear it, Your Grace.” She could not hold back a sob. Another loss. “I was loyal to the house of Lancaster, but I recognize when the battle is lost.”
The queen was thoughtful and silently observing the dowager duchess of Somerset before her. Something about that Tudor woman reminded her of the days spent together, but also... when herself was Lancastrian. A widow with children. This could be reversed, though, and something started to form in her mind.
“Please, my lady”, Margaret decided to kneel. It pained her pride, but there would be no other choice. She was doing what her sister by law, lady Stanley, dId. She had to survive. “Forgive me.”
Elizabeth sighed again, but once the idea was complete, she conceived a smile.
“I forgive you. You are to serve me as my lady in waiting and I can talk to Edward about the rights of your son’s lands. Owen is now the duke of Somerset, is that correct?”
“Aye, he is.” Margaret mumbled. Her heart was broken, but she knew that her children were well looked after. Even if the queen decided to see her as enemy, the former duchess of Somerset knew the children were innocent of their father’s fault. They would survive somehow. 
“He is going to be well educated for a man of his position. I’ll make sure of that.” Looking thoughtful, she smiled. “I think we could reapproch, could we not, lady Beaufort?”
Seeing there was hope in horizon, Margaret smiled weakly. “We certainly could, Your Grace.”
*                                                            *                                                            *
Margaret Tudor, formerly lady Beaufort, was to wed the heir of the Woodville family, the philosopher Anthony. This would be her next wedding, but at the opportunity where she shared the news with lady Stanley, she was so told:
“You should agree to this match”, Margaret Beaufort told her sister by law. “You are being highly favoured by the queen and this is good, despite the past. King Edward granted his blessing and this union should aid our cause somehow.”
“I’m doing whatever I can for my children.” Margaret confessed.
“I know, my sister. God sees what is in our heart. We must pray, for difficult times lies ahead.” 
Such were the words of the woman who was her cousin by marriage and also sister by law. Somehow, Margaret sensed they would prove truthful someday. In the meantime, Jasper decided to cut short their relations: Margaret must survive, he understood it well, as she had four children to look after. For her safety, she could not be seen tangled to his deeds.
Therefore, in the year of 1466, Margaret remarried. Anthony Woodville was a handsome husband, one also gifted with sharp wit for which she was thankful for. He was very knightly in all his manners, but she was aware he was as reluctant for this union as she was.
“This is something of convenience for us both”, he told her on the night of their wedding. “But I’ll be respectful for you and your children”.
Margaret smiled at his sincerity. “I’m thankful for this, my lord.”
Even so the beginning of their marriage was difficult for her. They had not many differences, as she would come to find out--for she too was fond of chivalry and poetry as much as he was-- but she could not relent the past she shared with Henry. There were moments she could not hold her grief. It took some time for Anthony to comprehend that, but thankfully, he never shared his frustration with his sister.
It would take some time for them to arrange themselves in this union and Margaret was not surprised that he sought pleasure elsewhere. Elizabeth, the queen and her friend, one day came to comfort her.
“I know he cares for you”, she said very gently. “A beautiful woman of wit as yourself is all he wanted, and deserved. But give him some time, he was never one to settle easily.”
Margaret chuckled. She hesitated before confiding her sentiments:
“I’m scared, Elizabeth. To move on.”
Elizabeth, whatever people thought what kind of person she could be, had a kindred heart. She was a good christian, and when she held Margaret’s hands into her own, she knew it well.
“Let God heal it, Meg. It’s time.”
Margaret pondered first, before deciding to agree to it. She could not live in the past anymore. For that, she squeezed her friend’s hand and wept for the dead she would not ever see again.
*                                                                 *                                                 *
As it was the case with Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Tudor was very fertile. It was not entirely a surprise when, a year after her marriage, she gave birth to a healthy child. It was a boy, whom was named Edward, in honour to the Yorkist king. As Margaret predicted, the king was overjoyed with this homage and was deliberatedly the boy’s godchild.
But the wheel of fortune could be cruel too. Towards the end of 1468, her daughter Elizabeth was taken to God’s arms followed by her son, Owen Beaufort. Edmund, her second son, would inherite the dukedom of Somerset and by 1469 he was invested as the 3rd duke of Somerset. 
Yet, stability would be long to last...
*                                                      *                                                       *
The years of 1470 and 1471 were controversial to Margaret for she saw the overturn of events, her brother Henry VI restaured to her throne, the rise of the Tudor-Beaufort-Lancaster again. But not long after, they were definitely defeated.
As the sister by law of queen Elizabeth and king Edward, Margaret and her children of both unions were safe. Still, had not been by Anthony, her husband, she could have done worse.
In matters of her second marriage, Margaret, now Countess Rivers, was finally getting along with Anthony and they were now apparently in happier terms. It was thus not a surprise that she conceived again. In 1473, she gave birth to another girl, whom she named Elizabeth once more. She was followed by a few more: Margaret, in 1475; Richard, in 1477; Charles, in 1480 and the last one, Jasper, in 1482.
The year of 1483 would, however, turn Margaret’s life upside down and she would not know security again for another two years. 
*                                                   *                                                           *
By the time her niece by law was crowned queen consort of England in 1487, Margaret Tudor, dowager duchess of Somerset and countess Rivers, was a survivor. Recently wedded again for the third time, she was now a countess of Oxford by her union to John de Vere, 13th Earl of Oxford. His nephew compensated her and her family for their enduring years under the Yorkist regime.
As the years went by, Margaret saw to it that her children were provided with good marriages. Edmund Beaufort, 3rd duke of Somerset, married Cecily of York, a sister to the queen of England. Catherine was married to Edmund de la Pole. Of her second marriage, Edward, as the new Earl of Rivers, would marry Katherine Plantagenet (Richard III’s illegitimate daughter and a widow of Baron Herbert); Elizabeth would marry John Plantagenet (Richard III’s illegitimate son); Margaret and Richard would both be sent to the church and Charles and Jasper were betrothed to Bridget and Elizabeth Plantagenet, daughters of Arthur Plantagenet, 1st Viscount Lisle and illegitimate son to King Edward IV.
*                                                  *                                                          *
The year was 1520. Margaret was, as Jasper once called her, a survivor. The remaining of the Cousin’s War who outlive most of those she loved and cared for. At the age of 80, she saw the reigns of Henry VI, Edward IV, Edward V, Richard III, Henry VII and went into Henry VIII’s. She was very esteemed by Katherine of Aragon, the king’s wife, to whom she shared many and many stories of her life.
Margaret was also close to Sir Thomas More, who was responsible for writing her memoirs. She was proud even to witness the birth of her grandchildren and helped to raise them. Eventually, though, this thrice a widow, a Tudor woman who became the symbol of the Tudor victory against all odds, was taken to join her family in Heaven in due time.
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goodqueenaly · 5 years ago
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If he had lived. Who had a better claim to the English throne. Charles the Bold of Burgundy, or Henry Tudor?
That depends on a few things.
Who had the better Lancastrian claim? Henry Tudor’s claim derived (in part) from the fact that he was the senior descendant of the last remaining male line of the House of Lancaster - that is, the descendants of John Beaufort, Earl of Somerset, the eldest son of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, and Katherine Swynford. The Beauforts, born before the marriage of their parents, were legitimated by Richard II, but with the added caveat by by Henry IV that the Beauforts were ineligible to succeed to the throne. Henry IV doubtless didn’t imagine a scenario where his line would die out in two generations, but the question remained - if there were no more (male-line) legitimate Lancastrians, could the Beauforts take their place? (It may also be worth noting, of course, that Henry VII’s Beaufort blood came through his mother, the only heiress of John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset.)
As for Charles the Bold, he too had Lancastrian blood: his mother, Isabella of Portugal, was the daughter of Philippa of Lancaster, the eldest daughter of John of Gaunt. That Lancastrian descent was more unquestionably legitimate than that of the Beauforts (and consequently Henry Tudor), but that on its own does not automatically answer the question in favor of Charles. After all, if descent from Philippa of Lancaster qualified one for the throne of England, then Charles would have to stand behind the male heirs of Philippa - that is, the descendants of her two eldest sons, Duarte and Peter. Far from being the obvious Lancastrian heir, then, Charles would have been at best one of quite a few female-line claimants, hoping to take the throne of their great-uncle Henry IV.
That’s only the Lancastrian side. Charles, of course, might have tried to claim the throne in right of his wife, Margaret of York, the sister of Edward IV and Richard III. At that point, however, Charles would have had to contend with the other Yorkist lines hungry for the throne. Both Edward, Earl of Warwick - the only son of George Plantagenet, and last male of the Yorkist male line - and the de la Poles - descendants of Edward IV’s sister Elizabeth, who believer themselves the rightful heirs of Richard III - would have had better blood claims than Margaret (as Elizabeth was older than Margaret). What’s more, while Henry VII didn’t claim the throne as his own wife Elizabeth’s spouse, it certainly didn’t hurt his dynastic prospects that after the deaths of Edward V and his brother Richard, Elizabeth was arguably the heiress to the Yorkist line - more than Margaret of York could claim.
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