#kat-bat-thegreatandterrible

[thelordofgifs]

I want to ask about elves!!

What do you think the particular motives of the feanorians who pushed for the second and third kinslayings were? I mean C and C were probably bitter but do you think it went deeper than that?

Why do you think their followers went along with it, twice?!

YAY ASK ABOUT ELVES I HAVE NO INHIBITIONS ATM AND WILL ANSWER ANYTHING

hmmm yeah I think C&C’s bitterness was the main thing – but also the Nirnaeth was such a turning point. Maedhros failed in every way imaginable. He had lost all his personal and political authority, and ofc Fingon was dead (not to mention his close friend Azaghâl and ally Bór! like Fingon’s death was the Main Thing but it wasn’t the ONLY thing) so I really don’t think he was in a state to restrain C&C from doing what they wanted to (and Celegorm is explicitly named as the leader in the 2nd Kinslaying). But the Nirnaeth was where Maedhros and his brothers put all their eggs in the basket of “get the two Silmarils that Morgoth holds instead of the one held by other elves” – and when that effort failed so dramatically, they were like “welp might as well try the one that’s gonna be easier to get hold of”.

In but two remain I put forward the argument that it was Amras who argued most strongly for attacking Sirion – which is partly backed up by an early draft where the twins (then “Damrod” and “Diriel”) are the ones who push for the 3rd Kinslaying, with M&M only going through with it reluctantly. “Don’t let our brothers fall into Everlasting Darkness for the sake of your faulty conscience” is imo pretty compelling reasoning.

Of course this doesn’t answer the question of why their followers went along with it – and in fact we have two extremes, the servant of Celegorm who abandoned Dior’s sons to die in the Second Kinslaying, and the Fëanorian followers who turned on their own lords in the Third Kinslaying. I don’t really have a good answer for why these people went along with their orders for as long as they did (and I am WAY too drunk to make a stab at figuring it out now). But tbh I think if you were still following the Fëanorians post-Nirnaeth, when they were “scattered like leaves in the wind”, you probably weren’t very normal anyway.

[thelordofgifs]

3, 9, 10 for the ask game. The tolkien fandom (and canon) has a lot of... takes, so i'm interested to hear your opinions!

(choose violence ask game)

did 3 and 10 here!

9. worst part of canon

look I know there's been some pushback on this take but Tolkien... really isn't great with women. Yes, the female characters he writes are fascinating and complex when he can be bothered to write them; they're also often props in male characters' stories. The most egregious example of this is Aredhel's death imo - what little we know about her is SO interesting but like. her story mainly takes place in the chapter titled "Of Maeglin", and her death is really just part of Maeglin's tragic backstory, not as a culmination to any arc of her own. Finduilas gets this treatment too, and it's really the combined weight of their fridging that bothers me. Kill these women if you have to! But make it because their own tragic flaws caused their demises, not to make the dark-haired emo boy even sadder.

[thelordofgifs]

hello I was the previous anon, sorry about my weird phrasing but I wasn't sure what type of getting the orcs were going to do

anyway please accept this shit comic I made of how I imagine this scene

fingon: quit telling people I'm dead

curufin: sometimes I can still hear his voice

I need to send this before I decide I hate it

I need to tell you that this is quite simply the best thing that has happened to me in many days and I am absolutely SPEECHLESS with joy!!! My silly little fic got a COMIC this is amazing and also you’re the funniest person on tumblr ❤️❤️ this is exactly how it went down

And your phrasing wasn’t weird at all, that was just me making a vague and not very good joke (and also trying to avoid spoilers: WILL they get got by orcs??)

Thank you so much again this is just brilliant and I’m so incredibly honoured ❤️❤️

[thelordofgifs]

I saw that idea and I had to do it

I wanted him to look like the dog on the original poster but his eyes turned out huge which is vaguely disturbing! I tried to do the eyes looking in the same directions as the dog's but it was so funny looking I couldn't

Anyway here's the original image

I LOVE THIS SO MUCH THANK YOU THIS IS EVERYTHING AND HE’S SO CUTE

[thelordofgifs]

📝 and 💗 for the ask game please!

(WIP It Good ask game)

Did 💗 here!

📝Share a snippet of an unposted WIP, with or without context.

Without context it is! Have some Russingon.

Maedhros sighed and brought his fingers up to rest on Fingon’s head. “Beloved,” he said carefully, “I have been where you are, you know.” “Oh?” Fingon asked, more bitterly than he intended. “When my father died,” said Maedhros, “and left all of it on my shoulders – I know how overwhelming it feels.” “It is different,” said Fingon. “My father loved me.” It was cruel, perhaps one of the cruellest things he had ever said to Maedhros; and he could see that the barb had struck, for the uneven line of Maedhros’ shoulders was suddenly tense. But in response he only said, mildly, “He did – perhaps even as well as you deserve.” “Then why,” said Fingon, “then why did he—” Tears were stinging at his eyes. He closed them before they could fall, and pulled Maedhros into another kiss. Maedhros sighed into his mouth again, but when Fingon’s hand began to drift from Maedhros’ back down to his hip, he pulled away and then stood up.

Thank you for the ask <3

[thelordofgifs]

🌤️ and ☔ for the wip ask game

(WIP ask game)

🌤️Share your favorite piece of dialogue from your WIP.

I like most of the dialogue in sore must be the storm (which is the only reason I keep working on it, that thing is SO HARD) but here's a random little snippet of it:

“You do not know everything,” said Fingon. “You are not always right.” “I rather think I am wrong oftener than most people,” said Maedhros. “So you say!” said Fingon. “So you say. But that is all an affect. In public you will happily claim every mistake you ever made and several you did not, as though Thingol of Doriath was ever moved to pity by the Noldolantë. But in your heart you maintain the conviction that you know best, and yet you must labour to protect the ignorance of us poor fools who have not seen true darkness.”

☔Is there a fic concept you have that you'd like to just explain and share because you're not sure you'll ever write it? If so, what is it?

Another one!! One of the first ideas I actually noted down on my Sticky Note was a Russingon WW1 AU featuring lots of blood and angst and drama, and probably a version of the rescue from Thangrododrim, and historically accurate detail, and possibly Maglor as the framing narrator, and possibly a lot of epistolary sections (if the entire thing isn't epistolary), and period-typical homophobia and probably an eventual happy ending. The vibes of this fic are SO CLEAR TO ME OK. But it would be so much work to research and plan out and write, especially because I don't know much about WW1. Its title would be no morning glory, from the Taylor Swift song The Great War which was written about them.

[thelordofgifs]

11 and 50 for the ask game?

(fic ask game!)

11. Are you partial to a certain character/pairing or are you more equal-opportunity? If you are partial to any character/pairing, why do you think that is?

I definitely play favourites! In silmfic Maglor and Maedhros are my two preferred characters – in almost any piece of media I enjoy I will latch on to the tragic codependent siblings, they make my brain go fuzzy. “I don’t see why everyone is so obsessed with romance,” eleven-year-old-me used to think disgustedly, “that’s BORING and OVERDONE, my favourite person in the world is the small sibling anyway, I am going to be COOL and DIFFERENT and invest all my creative energy into writing about angsty sibling relationships!” To my lasting mortification, eleven-year-old-me was right. (And the small sibling is still my favourite person in the world.) Anyway. M&M are both fascinating characters separately, but it’s their doomed and guilt-ridden relationship that gets me, which is not a surprise to me.

50. Answer any question of your choice, or talk about anything you want to talk about!

I… think I’m just going to ramble about tfs here because when do I not do that (and you’re now the fic’s official artist so ❤️). Hmm what are today’s thoughts. Let’s talk about Maglor because his storyline so far has been quite important to me actually! Maglor was badly injured at the end of Part 1 and has been basically bedridden since; nonetheless, with the exception of Parts 2 and 3 when he was unconscious, he’s taken a pretty significant role throughout. This is quite deliberate. As I’ve groused on tumblr recently, I have a chronic pain condition myself (not the sort that leaves me bedridden thankfully but it still isn’t fun) and I like the idea of a character being able to make important, plot-changing decisions while being confined to a sickbed; I like exploring how there are so many more ways than physical action to affect the narrative. Maglor can’t fight at present – he can barely walk, in fact – but he’s still achieved a lot! Winning Lúthien’s friendship (and her pity), trying to get the Silmaril back from Thingol, although admittedly that didn’t work, resisting the Oath long enough to get through the Girdle again; most of these moments have been relatively undramatic but they’re all there and Significant. And Maglor seemed like a good character to give this arc to because his greatest weapon has always been his voice, his charm and persuasiveness and, when that fails, his sincerity.

I jokingly called him a pincushion because I do feel bad about that whole lil stabbing incident – but in a way his whole story in tfs has been about being a pincushion, and doing interesting and important things anyway!

[thelordofgifs]

20 and 25 for the ask game?

(fic writer ask game)

20. What’s a favorite title for a fic you’ve written?

I’m not usually that satisfied with my fic titles, but I think in the breaking is a good one! The line in canon, of course, is “Then the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep our Oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking.” And the fic itself is canon compliant, so titling it after the breaking of the Oath, the thing Maedhros and Maglor are notably Not doing, might seem weird at first – but what I was trying to get at was that this little scene is actually about the breaking of them, the slow unravelling of Maedhros and Maglor and of their relationship. The way keeping the Oath is actually what destroys them 💔

25. Have you ever upset yourself with your own writing?

Yes! Not that often, but sometimes. In tfs when Maedhros was having his delusional episode his POV was genuinely very very painful to write and I had to keep taking breaks from the writing to recover. Poor baby I put him through so much :( gleefully plans more torture for him

[thelordofgifs]

feanor or finwe for the ask game?

(character ask game!)

Did Feanor here.

one aspect about them I love:

This is tricky because I am not a Finwe fan. I guess I like the whole "intrepid king who led his people across the ocean to a new land of plenty" thing?

one aspect I wish more people understood about them

Tbh I think most of the fandom agrees with me on this but Finwe was a terrible parent. His favouritism failed all his children. And blaming Feanor - who was, according to almost all versions of canon except one that makes timelines very difficult to reconcile, a very young child when Miriel died and Finwe remarried - for all this is... not great.

one (or more) headcanon(s) I have about this character

He was, in fact, an excellent and universally beloved grandfather! So he did get it right eventually, it just took him an extra generation.

one character I love seeing them interact with

Most of his grandchildren! I think I'm going to go with Maedhros again though. All those delicious Finwe-Third Finwe dynamics.

one character I wish they would interact with/interact with more

Miriel, perhaps. She dies so early on the story, but I'd love to know more about their marriage.

one (or more) headcanon(s) I have that involve them and one other character

He taught Maglor a lot of very ancient songs from Cuivienen that had mostly fallen out of fashion in Tirion by that time. Later, when Maglor wound up in Beleriand, those songs were pretty crucial in the early days of bridging the language gap with the Mithrim Sindar.

[thelordofgifs]

for the ship ask game finduilas/nienor and erendis/aldarion :)

Finduilas/Nienor - excellent and lovely and perfect!! except it could never have happened which makes me sad. give me more of those fix-it AUs always. I can't remember who made that post recently saying that Turin saw Finduilas as a sister when she wanted to be his wife and saw Nienor as wife material when she was of course his actual literal sister; but they were so right for that and this makes the ship SO SO JUICY. they both deserved so much better :(

Erendis/Aldarion - ohhhh they are SO. the complexity!! The Mariner's Wife is such a virtuosic depiction of a failing marriage actually - the dynamics are so so fascinating and tragic. Aldarion PLEASE be less of an idiot (but also I still sympathise with him often??).

[thelordofgifs]

not really a fic prompt as such but,, any tfs thoughts/snippets you'd like to share?

Yes of course and always!! (Also I promise I still haven't forgotten about your last fic prompt! I want to write a proper thing for it if I can.)

Anyway no actual snippet because I think I can have part 17 out in a couple of hours hopefully (don't let my saying that jinx it) but: here's another bit of rambling about word choice! One of my favourite lines of dialogue from the fic is still this one from part 3: "I dreamed you left me, or else I you," which Maglor tells Maedhros when he first wakes after Carcharoth's attack. I think I've rambled about this before, but a solid 80% of the trauma in M&M's relationship in tfs is about leaving each other: Maedhros left Maglor to go to the parley, and then Maglor left Maedhros in Angband for thirty years. Then in tfs Maedhros left Maglor in Menegroth, and now he has suggested to Maglor that he leave Himring, which Maglor was not pleased about. So that line is still one of the thesis lines for their relationship in the fic.

Their scene in part 15, when Maedhros wakes up post-stabbing, is a deliberate mirror of the one in part 3; so it was important to me to work the line in again. So, almost immediately after Maedhros wakes up, he tells Maglor, "I dreamed you left me—"

He can't finish the sentence. For Maglor the fact that he left Maedhros in Angband is like, one of the most fundamental facets of his identity. He has rebuilt himself around that failure. Not to say that he's in any way at peace with what he did, but he can absolutely acknowledge it. In fact, he acknowledges it almost too much.

Maedhros, on the other hand, can't even countenance the fact that he might hurt Maglor. That's his little brother! He needs him a not entirely healthy amount and loves him desperately! He would never harm him!

... and the obvious discussion question I am attempting to set up here: how might Maedhros react to the knowledge that he stabbed Maglor?

(Hint: not well.)

[thelordofgifs]

very excited for the next tfs arc, hopefully maglor has time to recover from his many wounds in time to get more pincushion-ed. I love how maglor has the most and least plot armour simultaneously. Any pointed objects in a metre radius spontaneously attack him but he will. not. die. He persists.

Also, very funny that curufin is lost. You don't know where he is, he might not know where he is! He could be anywhere. He could be in your house! He could be in my house! If i see him i will let you know!

where did most of the feanorian soldiers go? If any of them are still loyal i imagine they could be useful later.

Anyway I'm looking forward to the return of everyone's favourite feral woodland princess!

Is thingol's fate going to change in this fic? The feanorions have even less political clout than they did in the silm so he's probably not going to be negotiated with without a really good argument. Without Celegorm and with Curufin missing/not going to do any more arguing and the lack of forces for them to use I don't know how a second kinslaying could happen but I am excited to find out!!

lol I think I’m going to give Maglor a little break from the pincushioning – he has Been Through It lately and now deserves a nice long rest in which to recover and get many hugs from Maedhros and prepare for his next character arc!

WHERE IS CURUFIN. WE DO NOT KNOW. tbh if he’s in anyone’s house it would be yours – he knows how much you love him!! Although I am now dying to see a giant wanted poster for Curufin. Or not even wanted in the criminal sense but more like a lost dog poster. Maedhros and Maglor can stick them up all over Hithlum like hi have you seen our lil brother he’s the absolute worst but we’d like to know where he is

Ok so I actually went down a rabbit hole here thinking about numbers. According to random websites whose sources I have not thoroughly checked, the average fatality rate in a medieval battle would have been about 10-15%, going up to maybe 25% for really bad ones. (Sadly the small sibling is away at university now so my usual source of military facts has disappeared.) Since the Nirnaeth was probably THE worst military defeat in the legendarium, and it involved Balrogs and dragons, we could put an upper limit of like 30% on fatality rates on the battles of Beleriand? Although Barahir somehow managed to get his entire fighting army presumably numbering at least a thousand down to thirteen guys so maybe that’s an underestimate! Also most fatalities taken by the losing side are apparently during the retreat, not the battle itself; and since Maglor managed to draw off the orc armies during the fall of Himring, let’s say that Maedhros lost… 15% of his people in the fight. So definitely a pretty bad defeat, but not awful. Then of the remaining 85%, let’s say 75% went south to Amon Ereb and the last 10% have decided to join up with Fingon instead. But Maedhros has explicitly renounced his command of them, so that lot aren’t really Fëanorian soldiers any more. Meanwhile Caranthir and Amras just received a LOT of reinforcements, not to mention some extremely confusing news about what’s been going on.

Anyway yessss I am SO excited to have our feral woodland princess back and causing trouble!! More than one person in the notes was wondering if she’d show up and stop either the execution or the fall of Himring as a whole and I felt really sad about not being able to do that, but the timelines just don’t work out. But she’s going to have Stuff to do (some of which I know about and some of it I only have very vague ideas about).

Ok so Thingol… I really need to do some thinking about him. What I can tell you is that the fall of Nargothrond, Húrin bringing the Nauglamír to Doriath, and the subsequent death via entirely preventable racism thing is not going to go down the same way in tfs as it does in canon (which isn’t to say none of those things will happen – but if they do happen, they’ll happen differently). So his fate is going to be different, but that doesn’t mean he’s going make it out okay necessarily! My instinct is to just make a bunch of people have conversations and see what conclusions they come to. The AU is going to get into some very uncharted territory soon, and I will absolutely be making everything up as I go.

Thank you for the ask ❤️❤️❤️

[thelordofgifs]

the new tfs is very good, just,, the parrallels!! The fact that everyone is just,, so mean,, to cufufin (he deserves it). The betrayal of sending maglor away even though he is not really helping by being there right now. I am excited to see how all of maedhros' people react to his extreme breakdown! Fingon really thinks he's doing ok huh! i mean in comparison to everyone else he kind of is but still. I only just read it so im re-orienting my thoughts right now, but it is,,, so good!!!

ohhh thank you I’m SO glad you liked it!! The thing with Curufin is that I do want readers to feel bad for him but also he DOES deserve it. Still very pleased with the savaging Maglor gave him in part 18 actually – let my boy be vicious sometimes! And yes the thing is Maglor is not being very reasonable in his objections to being sent away but. he REALLY doesn’t want to be sent away and he does in fact deserve everything and also the world so they shouldn’t have sent him away :( Fingon is like “I’m so much more hinged and sane than all my cousins I’m doing great” buddy the bar is on the FLOOR here and you are only just clearing it. Tysm for this I always love love love hearing your thoughts 💕💕 (and I think you’ll like part 20 hopefully!!)

[thelordofgifs]

for the ship bingo fëanor/nerdanel and if you have read the unfinished tales aldarion/erendis

I HAVE NOT READ THE UNFINISHED TALES AND I AM DYING TO. Aldarion and Erendis sound SO fascinating actually. I need to get my hands on a copy aaah.

Fëanor/Nerdanel:

They’re so interesting!! Definitely Aman’s hottest couple for centuries before all the love went sour. I’ve talked about how Amarië could forgive Finrod and how Eärwen could forgive Finarfin but god. How can Nerdanel ever forgive Fëanor? He took her children from her – every one of them, they followed him willingly, they chose him over her – and ruined them. But they were all adults with agency: they ruined themselves! For their father’s sake! (Oops that’s actually a direct quote from the latest bit of tfs I think. The Oath is on my mind atm.) That’s devastating.

[thelordofgifs]

The new tfs is great! Maglor is being very foolish and self sacrificial, he should stop, someone need to slap some sense into him, gently, so they don't kill him. I'm curious, do you plan the parallels in the story in advance or do you think of them as you write? Anyway, the story fits together really well with all the reoccurring events and themes. Are there any you are particularly proud of or that no one picked up on? My theory is that curufin will direct his crimes in the correct direction, at the orcs, and possibly die but I hope im wrong!

Thank you so much!! MAGLOR CAN'T BE SLAPPED HE'LL DIE IF SOMEONE TAPS HIS NOSE TOO HARD PROBABLY. Also this is so so kind <3 <3 I generally think of parallels as I write tbh - they almost feel like "cheating" because they're so easy to reverse-engineer! One of my most overused writing hacks for making something meaningful is to just. repeat it. I'm glad it works well! Probably my favourite parallel is the way the m&m scenes in part 3 and part 15 mirror each other; that was very deliberate and actually ended up directing the way the scene would go (Maglor wasn't initially going to give Maedhros the Silmaril in part 15, but then I realised he was Narratively Obliged to. Although that ended up not mattering too much because Maedhros has given it back to him now anyway).

Anyway, good theory!! I have Plans for Curufin - very excited to see what people think of them.

[thelordofgifs]

Túrin or fëanor for the ask game

(or eldacar if you want)

Did Eldacar here but thank you for asking about him!!

Túrin:

I am… not much of a Túrin enjoyer. I don’t hate him, but yeah he just kind of exists for me. Be less melodromatic please. Also I can’t forgive him for killing Brandir like bro??? he did nothing to you???

He’s very bisexual.

Fëanor:

An iconic sexy legend. Like read his DIALOGUE seriously just banger after banger. Not one of my personal favourite characters but undoubtedly just the most guy. His willingness to die on the most minor hills in existence is hilarious and also he spontaneously combusted which is epic.

On a more serious note I think he had some valid points about the Valar, and also considering his personal history with them I can’t blame him for distrusting them. He emotionally fucked up every single person he interacted with and – although his sons were adults with agency of their own – I think it’s hard to forgive the whole asking-them-to-reswear-the-Oath-as-he-lay-dying thing. I do think he loved his children very deeply! He just also ruined them.