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yaboylevi · 5 years ago

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Hello there! I couldn't help but notice that salty anon asking about your stance on Levi so I'll ask again because it sure sounds interesting! Do you mind telling us how you feel about him?

Okay, so the original question from a dumb hater was how I could even support a romantic ship between Eren and Levi if I am not a Levi fan*.

*If a ”Levi fan”, like that idiotic anon meant, is someone who excuses all of Levi’s bad behaviors, then no, I am not a fan.

Premise no.1: I’ve loved Levi for so many years, he’s been part of my twitter handle in the past, is in my Tumblr url, icons on various social media, I have a lot of merchandise and not only for “the sake of the ship”. I genuinely used to love him to the point that he was my favorite character alongside Eren, I couldn’t pick one. So I guess I am a bit of a fan, after all.

Premise no.2: I am a gigantic bag of salt about this topic so tread carefully if you’re easily offended. I won’t sugarcoat my VERY BIASED opinions, and if you strongly disagree, that’s perfectly fine. I won’t change my opinion with the information we currently have, because this isn’t a gut reaction I spent two seconds on, I actually soul searched (lol) for the reasons as to why I felt so negatively about Levi. He was my fave, and I felt deeply hurt and confused and frustrated, so I thought long and hard about it. I am open to change my mind if anything else comes out of him in the future.

Also, I have already spent a lot of words on how I feel about Levi’s character as of late, here, here, and here, here, here and here for example, also here and here (I haven’t exactly been silent about it lol) but let me reiterate it into one incomplete post. It’s really freaking long, and a wall of text at it. I don’t expect people to put up with this messy rant, but suit yourself if you want to.

@ the people who sent these new questions almost a month ago, I’m sorry this isn’t the reply you hoped for. If you guys want a more positive take on this, just look through my ereri meta tag.

Levi as a character can be simplified in 3 points, in my opinion: 1) the deep, caring feelings he has for his comrades and as such the responsibility he feels for them and their deaths; 2) his violent side and how he resorts to violence to solve situations. These 2 merge together into 3) what used to be his main goal, free humanity. He lent his strength (that at times he uses for violence/to get his way) to the cause: helping in freeing humanity inside the walls because the sense of freedom is worth everything.

So, harsh opinion: I believe he has lost sight of his goal – as Isayama has stated in the past even though I didn’t wanna believe it because it made zero sense and cheapened everything I loved about Levi – and he has fallen back into his worst behaviors. Add to that a lack of active presence and engagement in the actual story, and you get this predictable, background character that I can’t for the life of me enjoy currently. Because apparently, he forgot how to live on his own without Erwin’s guidance (and here I’d have another bag of salt to pour but this would get too long, and I don’t have the patience to word it in a way that wouldn’t bring me the ire of his fans).

I don’t know if Levi is really supposed to be seen this way, but at least to me, the focus has been mostly on this: his anger/violence/flaws, and his lack of involvement.

I never liked the way he resorted to violence to “resolve” not life-or-death situations or simply to vent his frustrations, in the first place. It’s something Eren had to let go of, he was rewarded when he used his wits, abandoning pure rage for the sake of revenge, and it’s always been Isayama’s intention, imo, to show as much with the story in general and with Levi as well, as Levi has never been rewarded for it either.

So, witnessing his character revert AGAIN to kicks and straight-up sadism, as a fan, has been a big disappointment. Then, the shift of his goal because “saving humanity” wasn’t Erwin’s goal, after all, has been another point of disappointment – but this happened way before the current arc. His obsession with “making the dead soldiers’ sacrifices worth it” can be commendable, but the way he’s going about it is totally blind and dictated by anger and loss of hope, in a way, so I don’t see it as something positive either. He lacks vision, he lacks a voice in the things that are happening around him as if he doesn’t care whatever happens to all of them, as long as he can make Zeke suffer and kill him. I know it’s not totally the case, because we have seen (and I want to believe) that he still cares about his comrades who are still alive, as seen during the battle in Liberio and his reticence at following direct orders to kill Eren, but at the same time, the obsession with “repaying the lives of the dead” is making him being absolutely heartless for the sake of his “hope” (like, I’m paraphrasing here but he literally went “let’s go to war again and let Historia become a shifter if she so wants to, who cares, more deaths, yay”), though he himself doesn’t seem to care about hope and freedom and all this stuff that much anymore, or he would’ve spoken up about the mess Paradis and Hange were throwing themselves into, like Eren did.

Another point of dissatisfaction is that it seemed to me like he was forming stronger bonds with the 104th and he was becoming better at voicing his opinions without becoming violent, but I guess he either regressed, or I always read him wrong. His violence in 114 was downright revolting to me, I felt nauseous and, in a way, I’m glad he got k.o’ed. It put a stop to his metaphorical downfall, at least — I see post-timeskip Levi as a cheapened, worsened, “hyperfocused-on-just-one-side-of-him” version of the Levi I used to love in earlier arcs and he was only getting worse, imo.

And, as a special mention re: his violence and his relationship with Eren… It was interesting to observe how he slowly changed in regards to Eren, learning how to lift him up and get the best out of and for him, caring about and paying attention to Eren’s emotional state when no one could or would. It was also very interesting how he opened up to Eren just because he wanted to help him, always, from the beginning. THAT’S what really made me fall for the ship and for Levi.

Also, he thought that violence wasn’t the answer with Eren, and I guess I can excuse him for his behavior in Shiganshina because it was a charged challenge of sort for every character. But he really did think that nobody could make Eren submit with violence, yet he’s the one who tried to do exactly that as soon as they met again in ch.105. I was so disappointed that their relationship seemed to have regressed so much, I kept being hopeful only because of his face/words after the kick: he felt betrayed and saddened by Eren, so it meant he still cared deeply about him. And yeah, he does, but the reasons are also partially…bad.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe he cares about Eren as a person, the boy he met and decided to protect all those years ago, but now saving Eren has become deeply intertwined with saving his last remaining goal: making it up to the dead soldiers (and I’ve already explained why I think it’s not a “positive” goal). And it’s unfair and a skewed view, imo, because Eren really didn’t have much to do with every single death. But I think it’s Levi being desperate about it all, he clings to it or he’d lose it if he had to, um, reconsider his current mindset. He’s like…grasping at straws, I feel. Like he was doing with Erwin when Erwin revealed his true colors. Levi ended up reconsidering his own ideals and goals, back then, but in a bad way (he had no goals of his own, he just blindly followed Erwin, who cares about humanity, right? Even though he seemed to care oh so much before).

I guess it’s the downfall of the “Hero”. @/Isayama, was this necessary? Is this entertaining? I am personally not a fan of this, there were so many ways to challenge Levi’s belief & trust in Eren, and to still have Levi be an active player. This just feels like a cheap way to get him out of the picture and turn him into a really secondary character. He doesn’t feel like a main player in this arc.

So long story short, I’m very disappointed in his development. I was willing to go along with it in the hopes that it would be leading us to something very interesting and it seemed it could go into a good direction as I stated here. But when he seemed to be confirmed basically dead (literally, or anyway when it comes to his importance in current events), I’ve kind of lost all hope in regards to his character, and I felt so done about it. He is either gonna stay this way, or there’s gonna be some small, cheap, background-ish closure (though atm I fail to see how, seeing as the story is about to end) and if that’s the case, I fail to comprehend the purpose of his arc, then. I don’t think his is an unreasonable development, I just fail to see how the direction Isayama has decided to “develop” him in has any relevance to the story and its themes, as he used to be a major player with some good-ass, relevant presence in the story. As I said in some posts I linked above, Isayama may have lost motivation to develop Levi any further and dropped it from the “main players” roaster, probably when he decided to change Levi’s motivations halfway through the story (because yes, the problems I have with Levi started towards the end of Uprising).

I used to be a great Levi fan, if my username and icon are anything to go by, and I still like him when I reread some parts as I stated elsewhere, because I really, really love when he interacts with the 104th or like, with his subordinates or even Hange. It’s fun to watch and even cute, when he’s not being a violent arsehole. So it’s really a shame that it’s come to this.

And yeah, I’m sure some people may have noticed already, but the ereri content on my blog has become quite scarce, S3 and the shitfest that went down there in regards to Eren&Levi parts also dampened my hype for the ship, my dissatisfaction with Levi’s character and the way his interactions (or lack thereof) with Eren went recently just pissed me off. But I loved this ship for like 5 years, I’m attached to it, and I am capable of separating the good parts of it from the bad ones (though it’s become increasingly difficult). And most importantly, I still love the way their canon relationship was developed up until before the serum bowl. Almost nothing has happened with them since then, so that’s why I was still really hyped for the next 2 years, but recently, and with Levi’s return, I’ve just grown more frustrated and bored with it.

After all, I fell in love with the romantic fanon ship BECAUSE the canon relationship was so interesting, had potential, and seemed to be going some incredibly cool directions, as both the characters seemed to be similar, had the same goals and understood each other on a basic level. It turned out to be almost nothing in the end, but alas.

So, how can I ship them if I don’t like one of them?

I still like Levi, especially when I reread the early arcs. This doesn’t mean I have to accept the worst sides of him that have apparently taken over his whole personality. His violence ISN’T a flaw I - or anyone, imo - should accept. Snoring IS a flaw we can/have to accept if we love someone. Violence is something that must be overcome. My annoyance with people implying they are better fans because they accept and embrace and excuse him and his violence, compared to those who don’t like that, is also a factor in my frustration. Understanding why exactly he’s the way he is is part of being a fan of a character, wishing for him to become a better person and ultimately letting go of toxic (yeah) acquired behaviors, imo, is better than defending and hyping them up. Some people even LOVE and WISH that violence will be his downfall because it’s violence for the sake of avenging [redacted] so it’s sooo romantic. lmao, ok. And I won't even get started about the ones who SERIOUSLY say that adult characters don't need to change, because I'm gonna start laughing for 3 hours straight. Dudes, there's not an age where you stop changing. If you stop trying bettering yourself at age XX, then I already know you're a shitty adult irl, goodbye.

Anyways, back on track. As I said in another post I may have linked above, I thought his encounter and resolution with Kenny would have amounted to something in this regards, since Levi used violence to get acknowledgment and to feel like he was “worth” something, imo, but it was only a set up for serumbowl. Wasted chance.

And I get it that violence is the way he was taught to deal with things, but 20 years have passed since then and he had a whole character arc in Uprising about opening up, trusting, feeling trusted in return, and feeling good and grateful and happy about that BECAUSE he was open with his squad and learned that it was better to use words rather than fists. So I thought he had grown out of it at least a bit. But I mean, there are other characters who have regressed or haven’t changed at all after their supposed character arc, and that dampened to a great degree the enjoyment of such characters for me (Historia, Ymir, Reiner), so whatever I guess? I can definitely see it’s something of a “cruel” way of storytelling Isayama really seems to like, maybe because he wants the characters to suffer. I guess you can’t have a story if all of your characters become better people and overcome their flaws…well, actually you can, but I guess Isayama doesn’t want this to be that kind of story.

But anyway, just to be clear, it also ties in with wanting the characters you love to better themselves and let go of things that ruin their lives or that have roots in trauma. Wouldn’t you want that for someone you love, even and especially in real life? So, if his violent tendencies have been portrayed as “wrong”, Bad Coping Mechanisms, and rooted in childhood trauma, why is it so frowned upon in this goddamn fandom to wish for him to let go of them, since it’s something that has caused him and characters around him pain or distress or downright failure. Overcoming these flaws would mean he’d feel better about himself, and others, and his past, etc. Why is it SO wrong to wish him the best? Lmao, I don’t get it.

So when his “real fans” be like “Levi’s violence is a part of him, you don’t love him for real if you can’t accept that part. anyway he’s perfect the way he is”, I’m like…that’s actually bullshit. I just want him to be a better person, just like I wanted to be a better person when I had detrimental (for me and for the people close to me) behaviors due to mental health stuff.

It’s not even on the same level of wanting him to stop being rude, that’s part of his charm. Violence…is not a cool personality trait, and it’s something you should want him to get over.

–

I still love lots of things that were shown in the manga in regards to Eren and Levi, so I don’t get why I should justify myself for liking them together just because I don’t like some parts of one of them. I still think some of Levi’s best personality traits came out when he interacted with Eren, and I like the Levi who cares about Eren the most. Hence why I ship the goddamn ship. That’s all there is to it, really. Here I talked about what I loved about their relationship, though now I feel like a bit of a hopeful fool.

#nobody will read this 10k words long rant but whatever #shingeki asks #salt #Levi #unnecessary post but it was a good chance at venting #I feel like I haven't even touched one of the main big reason #but I don't want to talk about e*win tbh #arekupacific

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nanigma · 7 years ago

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Ive been meaning to apologize to you properly i really did not wanted to get under your skin but i have just word things real poorly which makes me sound real arrogant. Hope you can forgive me and if not i'll just get out of your way and wish you the best

First of all, “Gays are disgusting and should not exist” was NOT the intention. But using the word “insult” though true for some, was an insult in itself. For that I must apologise. Initially the ask was more than 5 times longer, but character limitations meant many cuts, changes and it got more blunt in order to fit. Then I got tired and sent it as is, I’m sorry for that too. So I have done what I should have in the last ask; split it (whether you intend to carry on reading or not). This is 1/6

2/6. Wouldn’t IS give the option for characters to choose from either gender if that were the case? They could exchange half the S-supports with ones of the same gender and keep the overall amount for constraint concerns, or laziness. The fact that it is made in Japan who still withholds traditionalism and by mostly older men who grew up in that environment supports this theory.

3/6. Even for fictional characters fans like to delve into every aspect of characters as if they were real. It helps to know all about them to write about them. So I assumed your thoughts on Leo were concrete; doesn’t help that your analysis of characters are logical and that others say similar too, so it feels like heterosexuals are looked down on or overshadowed by LGBT that has taken the media by storm. This is where my questions arose from. I guess this is what LGBT community have felt.

4/6. I don’t recall many LGBT events in the medieval era, but in the ancient times of Romans and Celts they existed as the norm. Since the subject was mostly about Leo I was asking in terms of royalty as well, for their line that must carry on it seems to make more sense for heterosexual relationships to be the norm - anything outside of that can go on whichever path they like because they aren’t restrained by royal duties or for some social barriers.

5/6. If I could change Camilla’s armour I would, along with Charlotte’s, Nyx, Kagero, Ophelia, the berserker and Oni classes and do something with Orochi’s top. I would also give F!Corrin leggings like her male counterpart, and make them better in the story that matches with their support conversations so people would stop bullying them. I blame the developers for that. But even if I could change it the damage is done, and people will continue to hate.

6/6. (It seems that you can only ask 5 times before waiting around an hour) And I guess I do have a case of homophobia, its something that I’m still trying to understand and get used to. Though not outright crushing, I do appreciate some of the same gender. Is this what you mean by “…fall in some place in-between.”? Then yes, this would relate to everyone.

(Very long answer below the cut)

Like I said yesterday, I really appreciated this ask (series) and know how much courage it must have taken you to do so (yes, even on anon). I do admit, that some of the things you said really got under my skin, but that was mostly because it’s a very sensitive topic for me, not because your ask was particularly hostile. It was worded very.. unfortunately, true, but I could tell you weren’t outright malicious. You also caught me at a bad time I guess.

1) I didn’t actually think you were trying to say that, but I feel it’s the feeling behind the word “insult”. Of course, you didn’t intend that word either, butI didn’t back then. I just feel that being “offended” (only word I can find right now) by someone elses private headcanon (of a character being bi in this case), is, well, that person’s own problem.. As long they aren’t trying to force their headcanon on others, people are entitled to believe whatever they want about a character. If you really cannot deal with seeing someone elses’ headcanon, unfollow that person or ask them to tag the posts that talk about it. Ultimately, people should be able to talk about their interpretations on their private blogs, and it’s on you to avoid whatever you cannot deal with.

2) Again, whatever Intsys thinks or intended about the characters doesn’t affect my headcanons.. that’s literally the definition of it. Something that is canon to me, and not canon canon. I am sure they didn’t intend for Leon to be viewed as LGBT, but they know that catering to fangirls is a straight way to $$$, so they probably think of adding bi options in the first place as fanservice or something. I am definitely calling Death of the Author on this one. Their intentions matter zilch to me when I analyze the game. It’s only fair, since my opinion, on it’s own, matters zilch to them either, and I doubt I am going to convince them of making Leo bi in canon. My only way to respond is sharing headcanons which I feel make sense with the established facts… not rewriting the script. I don’t see how I am not allowed to do that because it’s not official canon. Most of fandom is build on headcanons, and I am sure you have your own ideas about a story that the author either didn’t specify or clearly didn’t intend. We are’t just mindlessly consuming media like gospel. Each and every one of us walks away with a different interpretation of it. And I think that can be very beautiful and sometimes even better than what happened in canon.

3) My thoughts on Leon, are that his relationships with men are very close in a way that’s more relaxed and feels more intimate to me than with many of his S-ranks. Part of that has to do with not being reminded of Camilla, but I also feel like there is something he shares with Takumi in particular that he doesn’t with anyone else. If you interpret it as friendship, that’s fine by me. I just think there’s something else to it, and I love being able to explore it in fandom. There are certainly people in the fandom that bash hetero couples, but I find a lot of the time those people are straight themselves and often in it to fetishize gay people/relationships anyway. But for those who don’t do this… you have to understand fandom is a tiny bubble compared to the mainstream audiences. It’s a safe haven for many, who can get pretty aggressive in defending what they believe is “their turf”. Because outside of it.. if you say a certain character is gay/bi/other you’ll get disbelief at best and outright hostility at worst. LGBT are alienated from many places, so they tend to be very concentrated wherever they aren’t. Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to try and drive out others of course. I do have “straight” ships myself, and I am always annoyed when people try to prevent me from shipping them. (As you can tell, I am very adamant on being allowed to “do my own thing” no matter which side).

4) There were multiple non-straight monarchs in medieval times (though opinions vary of course and records are fragmented from those times). Like William II (either gay or ace) or Edward II (probably bi or gay) to name only English examples. Of course, producing an heir is always an issue for royalty, (or aristocrats in general) and it’s certainly interesting to think of Leon being faced with it, which more than one fic has explored in the past. He may deal with it like Philippe, Duke of Orléans did: Fathering kids in an arranged marriage while having male lovers. Or relying on Xander and his sisters (whose offspring are still considered royalty) to keep the line going. Birthright is the only scenario where he is outright forced to have an heir himself, and again, that doesn’t exclude potential lovers, though I admit I don’t imagine him taking one in that route.

5) So you agree the developer’s can be very frustrating sometimes haha;; Anyway, I mainly just pulled out Camilla as an example for unrealistic armour, because I am so used to people who pull the medieval argument being very selective when it comes to the stuff (such as certain GOT fans ardently defending the sexism as historical, but not batting an eye at shaved armpits and anachronistic dresses). My point was that Fates is in a fantasy world and does not adhere to medieval standards in multiple ways, nor does it have to since it’s explicitly not a historical documentary (though I do wish they’d tone down the fanservice too). It just can’t be judged by them, since it’s a product of the 21st century.

6) Being able to admit that is already a good sign, since it involves a lot of self-reflection. I am sure it’s hard to overcome one’s ingrained beliefs, and it takes a lot of time, but I think you are on the right track. So long as you try to keep an open mind about things and educate yourself I am sure you’ll continue to make progress. And yes, I think that most people experience some form of “attraction” (sexual or romantic) for either gender, just to varying degrees. I am glad I could explain this to you, and thank you for taking the time to consider it.

#it's still friday somewhere in the world

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