#its def a bigger issue when it comes for my understanding of humans and social code

[purring-tiefling]

(doing a poll so you can give me an answer without interacting non-anonymously. lurkers i luv u)

quick overview: me & my gf are in a long distance relationship and we're watching different youtube vids on a discord call every day.

last vid we watched was actually a remix of a song we both liked. she also liked the remix and said so, and i disliked it and said (with a positive tone) "well its good that one of us liked it!"

her: "you didn't have to say it like that. you could've kept quiet"

me: "but- how would you prefer me say it? 'i didn't really like it', like that?"

her: "you didn't have to say anything at all"

me: "but i sent you music i liked some time in the past and you openly said you didn't like it?"

her: "but you were asking for my opinion by sending it to me. i didn't ask you to comment on this video"

me: "so... why do we even watch anything together if not for hearing opinions?"

her: "just 'cause?"

this might be me being anti-social or neurodivergent in some way or whatever, but i don't understand this interaction.

the thing i commented on negatively (it literally wasn't even that negative, i tried to turn it into a positive thing, but okay) wasn't something she made or had personal investment in. if she showed me her art, for example, and i didn't like it, i wouldn't say anything bad unless given permission to. or if the maker of that remix was with us in the room/call, i would just say it's nicely done.

when our opinions are the same (even if negative), it's perfectly okay to say it outloud, but this time they were different, and i was basically told to not say anything negative? like i get that hearing that something you liked your partner didn't like, because i've been there before with her, once again with music; i've been really upset actually, but those are MY feelings, not hers, and i value all of her opinions. i've worked on myself so i don't get upset when someone insults my passions, which is what i think is healthy and i recommend this to everyone. and in this situation, i think my opinion was really devalued. once again, i get being upset... but i honestly wouldn't have the strength to tell my loved one to not say her opinion if it's negative

and this point is a repeat of what i asked her: why watch anything together if not for sharing our opinions, whatever they may be?

and here comes time for the poll. so i knooowwww these categories can be too steep, but imagine this: you're in a call with us and we turn to you to decide who's right, or, at least right-er. who would you choose? this will help me understand humans a bit better. please help me im definitely fucking neurodivergent

[commajade]

ik this is from before but ive been thinking about the trans man butch post and idk... i don't like the idea of including attraction to trans men in lesbianism and when i was reading it i was like well good for the author but im not...attracted to trans men...and thats not part of being lesbian. like idk when this was written and if its older I get how diff norms could have impacted her understanding but yea...and also the line talking abt how the lover wants her like a man bc his thinking changed after starting T stuck out to me as weird too. and i mean maybe the modern understanding of sex hormones is just a lot diff so i wont go on about how thats not how T works but i feel like lesbians are usually very off put by someone "wanting us as a man"? food for thought ig

the thing is though, that it genuinely does not matter whether u think that person's experience is valid. ur allowed to judge that person and disagree, and u would be probably be aligned with a lot of other lgbt ppl around them. and it's ok if u disagree with me! this is the internet not an in-person and long standing lesbian social community, u r not accountable to me beyond basic human decency. i personally don't see a problem with it because people have all kinds of journeys with their identity and within lgbt social circles and butch and femme are relational social roles within a specific social and political context and the issue of transitioning while being butch is much bigger and much more difficult than we know and the author expressed that struggle beautifully.

i am absolutely not saying that because i don't see a problem in that story i'm allowing attraction to trans men to be a part of the definition of lesbianism. there's a difference between what actual people historically experienced and what is a correct on-paper definition of sexualities and lgbt social roles. i agree that i am not attracted to trans men and attraction to trans men should not be considered a part of the definition of what a lesbian is. there are actually trans men on this website that call themselves butch and make weird posts about gay men and lesbians having sex being normal. and it's gross, really really gross. another example of this would be bi femmes. on the internet i'm gonna be uncomfortable when a lot of bi women with no affiliation to or knowledge of lesbian bar culture and no love for butches call themselves femme but historically, bi women were an important part of butch femme bar culture and gave up a lot and gained a lot from taking on the responsibility of that social role, which continual rejection of men and wanting butches instead is a part of.

queerness is by definition outside of words, everything we do is resistance to language and outside of language and breaks apart language. the danger in these kinds of stories is when people use them as proof for ideas that are trying to disrupt our social formations and community structures and make our words meaningless, make the word lesbian no longer mean what it does. but the story doesn't do that, there's a reverence for lesbianism and the butch femme community that the narrator is terrified of losing the subversive power gained by becoming a part of that community and social structure. and about that section the narrator was put off by that too, terrified in fact.

finally, note that the passage never did firmly establish whether the narrator's partner considers himself a trans man completely. he could be a nonbinary transmasc lesbian like me that went through medical transition. he could be a trans man that still considers himself butch and that would be none of my business, he has def already been taken to task about it by his own community based on their own definitions of what being butch means. these terms come with sacrifice, they come with automatic rejection from society, they come with punishment both physical/legal and emotional, they aren't taking this shit lightly.

lesbian and trans experience is complicated and not going to fit neatly into any kind of narrative because we're communally writing the stories and definitions as they suit us and the community we have made. in general yeah saying lesbians are attracted to trans men is transphobic and lesbophobic but this is real people we're talking about, with real experiences that do in fact happen. it's not an idea, it's just what happened to those people. they're people of incorrect gender and incorrect desire which is the definition of what being lgbt is, and they should be considered as real human beings living through hell just to be who they are and survive. i don't think it's my role as a reader to further punish this person who's lived through more hardship for being gay and trans than i have, whose story is being very vulnerably told so i can benefit, so i can see some of myself and feel some connection in the past as a young nonbinary transmasc butch lesbian.

[flying-elliska]

about that last Axel/Maxence interview, French culture, identities vs universalism, and Pride. Discourse, I guess. 

my tl;dr is that even though bits of the interview sounded extremely Straight TM and might have annoyed me a lot more if it was anyone else but them (lol i am so whipped) I think overall their hearts are in the right place and i really wish the internet shouting factory was a better place to have a nuanced debate about this instead of just harassing them constantly about every little thing, which of course means they’re going to understandably shut themselves off, and miss some points they could have learned from. So this post isn’t really about the interview per se, it’s more about the experience of being in an international fandom for a French thing, and something i’ve been struggling to put into words since the beginning. Warning this might get a little conceptual, i’m kind of woolgathering here.

French culture is (to make a big problematic generalization) much more geared towards the universal than Americanized global culture. This def has some positive aspects (like higher levels of politicization, critical thinking, social solidarity/sense that society should be held together by more than business/capitalism). But it’s also one hell of an issue when it comes to articulating minority rights and the place of communities. It makes it impossible to have a conversation about racism, islamophobia without accusations of ‘fuelling communautarism” and wanting to sabotage the Republic and it’s constantly instrumentalized by the right in disgusting ways. It’s made it much more difficult to have laws to ensure the equal place of women in power ; made gender studies suspicious ; made the concept of Pride a lot more fraught. Another thing is that the language of identity/community is, in general, not a positive thing, and is associated with the specter of nationalism and war. So the whole thing of ‘being proud of your identity’ is a lot less of a thing in mainstream culture ; it exists in activist communities that are very influenced by global activism and the Internet. It’s not until I went to study in the Netherlands (which is in general much more ‘globalized’) in an international student environment, with gender studies and discovering tumblr on top of that,  that I really understood how cool it could be to have a specific queer identity. It’s still jarring to me how much, fhowever, American politicians or public figures talk about their heritage, where they’re from, their specific identities. It’s like a lot more of a taboo in Europe. So in France, especially on the left, they will talk much more about general principles and values. It’s...a problem when what is ‘general’ is completely socially and politically constructed. It’s a real conceptual straightjacket at times. At the same time that it does give a lot more space for in-depth discussions that are about concrete measures and plans, it takes away some key perceptives for those measures coming to fruition in a way that respects everyone and doesn’t reproduce power dynamics. It’s endlessly frustrating.... I’m not sure there is any culture yet that has found a good way to deal with differences, though. It’s an enormous work in progress (or regression, sadly, in a lot of places nowadays.) And a lot of my French queer friends are uncomfortable with labels/the concept of identity. They feel like it’s tokenizing and putting them in boxes. 

Coming back to Skam France and that interview for a moment. When Axel and Maxence talk about approaching their characters from the point of view of them being just human, I totally believe their hearts were in the right place. In the French mainstream there’s been way too many portrayals of queer characters othered in a bad way, shown as disgusting, unnatural, over the top, etc etc. Or they’re presented as token, sexless, second rate stories for brownie points. So, starting from a place of respect and care, I think this is what they wanted to sidestep. They’re for all we know, straight, so they worked from the place of “love is love”, their own experiences with love so they could make it raw and real, and the fact that these are universal experiences and I don’t think they could have done anything different. What they did feels very humanizing, normalizing, and good. It’s just, when it comes to those interviews, I don’t think they have much of a framework for identity/difference as a good thing. 

I feel like this is something skam france struggles with in general (and most skams too, since they’re set in Europe mostly where this kind of thing is a pattern.) Might be part of the reason s4 had so many problems, because in the end they had this need to end up with ‘but it’s a thing we all go through and now we’re all friends and we need to talk and yay!!!” and a difficulty honoring the specificities of Imane’s identity. S3 is so good very probably because it had a gay headwriter, but I don’t know if the straight members of the team recognized the extent of this. 

Part of me also...really feels the ideal behind what they said in that interview. That it’s really cool that Pride serves as this place for everyone to connect with a side of themselves that is more colorful and expressive, to let go of clichés about gender roles and love and etc. That the LGBTQ+ community does have a lot to teach the world at large and that therefore it’s amazing that straight people are there as well, that everyone should join really, connect with the parts of themselves that are maybe a little bit fluid, liberate themselves. I get wanting to be a part of that, and the idea that queer love can serve as a sort of refoundation of our conceptualization of love in general ? Amazing. Even for newcomers.  I hate gatekeeping, in general. And at the same time I can understand why it rubs people the wrong way, what they said, that it’s important to recognize the specific history and pain, that it’s not (only) about love in general but about this specific kind of love that needs a moment to be visible, not erased, and that it’s important, who speaks and is given a voice. There has to be a place for constructive criticism. And I want queer history and culture to be recognized on its own merits, too, as something wonderful, not just to be dissolved in vague concepts of ‘love’. But it’s part of this much bigger and complicated conversation. 

I don’t really know where I’m going with this lol. All in all, some of the things they said did make me cringe, and I wish they educated themselves maybe a tad more on certain things, but I love their enthusiasm and their devotion to their work. The cancel/pedestal dichotomy on the internet is exhausting. I think Skam is like...one of those signs that the conversation is becoming more interesting and more complex. I think it serves a very important perspective, rooted in empathy and the need for connection, even if it can be a bit blindsided by its own mission at times, a bit too swamped in ‘everyone just needs love’ to be as sharp as its subject deserves. And I feel reducing all this to a debate about how two actors are or are not problematic is incredibly unproductive. If it serves as a springboard for deeper conversation, good. If it’s a way to heckle and feel important on twitter it’s like...sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nope. This reminded me of Lucas coming out to Arthur and Basile - in the end, the thing is, I prefer allies who are enthusiastic and outspoken and can reach people even if they’re clumsy, over people who just shut up and say nothing out of a fear of being ‘problematic’. 

[madigabz]

1-21-18

Yesterday was so busy at work I slept until 2:30pm today...I was still able to get one thought in before I passed out & that was me calling you my bf on the phone. I didn't mean to do that. I am trying to find out where to move to. If I stay here or go to South Carolina. I like it here and I don't want to be away from my siblings bc so much bs happened months after I moved to Colorado and I hated not being there 😞

I know we aren't dating. Honestly Alan, I have expected you to be with other people this whole time. Just like Valentyne giving you trust issues, you have given me them as well. You say you live in the present, but that's really contradicting when you're comparing me to that cunt in any aspect. Even if you don't fuck someone as soon as you get out- I'm going to get old. And if you need new pussy/ arm candy, like you do $ I have no luck. So please don't sugar coat your intentions and lie to me. I'm sorry I hurt you but to be honest with you; I never expected to end up in a relationship with you. Read this draft I found the other day about you

"1-16-13 when i said id stop talking to you you said shit happens-you said you would of neverrr been with me if makayla lived closer-you said shit happens if you get put back into foster care-you dont care if ppl are in your life or not-you walk away easily-you get pissed off easily-you get closer to me then ignore me and sometimes tell me you want to be done-you called me a bitch and you wouldnt sit in the back with me for whatever reason when we went to detroit then you fucked me at whits gmas..why do you think i slept on the couch?-you barely text me or talk when we hang out-you dont explain yourself all that much anymore-you like being right too much or proving your point :p-you rather be pissed off then fix it, even if what you heard was a rumor

you know me-i could tell you anything-you like the things people hate-youre real, sometimes-you see life the same way i do i think-you can be a gentlemen and drive or wipe off my car or just be sweet or cute-we have a five second rebound with each other-youre honest-you dont like getting close to people-youre stubborn-youre so adorable 🙂 <3-im scared that youll just walk away and be able to do it like i was nothing-you make me feel special when you say some of the things about why you like me & how i make you feel-you make me happy the way not a lot of people can-you play xbox too much and you arent social-youre playful-youre cute with kids-you do you and you dont change for people or around people-you always mess with me and attempt to give me hickies!!!!-you warn me and mess with my head-and you give up on a lot so easily-but i always have fun with you laughing and smiling

ill never meet another you thats for sure

and youve taught me how to be more independent and not put up with shit

even though i put up with a lot of your damn shit lol

i dont think we will date or ever get along all that well, itd never work i feel like but i wanted you to ask me out so badly especially when i found out you were going to! But im happy i met you even if youve made me feel really shitty before you were def one of those people to come into my life to learn from them. I trust you and I trust you with my happiness so I hope we can just make the best out of everything."

Alan, I don't expect anything from you. I do appreciate you and value you so much. But we were never suppose to be together, we are each others soul mates and all that we have done and continue to do is teach each other. I made all these videos this past year, talking about the shit you'd say to me while visiting. Saying to myself that we aren't going to work out 😞 even if I excuse all of the past, you still say shit that isn't okay. I've mentioned everything before so I'm not going to sit here and play the blame game. I know I did this. I sacrificed everything hoping you'd change your views on everything in your life. Values & thoughts. I couldn't do anything to help you see the beauty in this world or even within myself. Bc nothing is enough for you to be happy and satisfied. I am going to mail out everything I read today back in October. You won't want to read once you're out lol. It'll explain so much to you. I appreciate you telling me how you feel and I'm glad you're saying it before you get out. "You need to figure out where and who is best for you and do it." It's not that easy bc the bigger picture isn't about me and my feelings. I gave in and went to see you last month....but I know that all that we go through is a lesson that we are suppose to learn from in this life. Our souls have been through many lifetimes and ALL of our souls have to find our divine purpose in each life/ journey they encounter. We are just in the skin of two souls that have been together in past lives. Just like I said at 17 yos you are someone I am suppose to learn from.

What do you mean about learning from my actions, even my picture perfect as? lol. I know it wasn't smart, I had a feeling that something was going to happen. But I'm wreckless and destructive. I consider as my future as well, but I'm still only relying on myself. Which is the way it should be... but I have always known that I was going to be alone, doing my own thing; living in my own world on this journey. I don't hold anything to anyone. I don't anticipate on people staying or even being the person I project them out to be. And I own my own pain that I self inflicted. I accept that chance & still see people for the beautiful, imperfect human being that they are. People are worth the pain. You are worth the chance. "You can't change someone that doesn't want to change for themself." That just shattered so much hope I had for you. I just want the best for you and for you to be positive and happy. Meditating, eating well, healthy, HAPPY. But idk how to do that for you and the more I try the more my heart keeps breaking. And I keep surprising myself. I think that I can't hurt more, but it's never true. I know it all happens for a reason Alan. I'm trying to be as strong as you've taught me to be. Angel told me I had darkness in me that doesn't belong to me. I hold this cloud too no matter how much I try to shine. There's negative in everyone but you drive to the bad instead of ever being optimistic and seeing the good. You'll see in my letter... being aware and knowledgeable makes you more prone to being sad and having no hope. A new girl at the candlelab, Arin, is just like me. She went to Australia and Australians were shocked over how many ppl are depressed and have anxiety in America. She says they don't touch the food we eat everyday. She says it's the food- sugar and pesticides. America is so far up it's own ass we don't see how shitty everything actually is here. so unauthentic. I believe in karma. But beyond religion, what we believe in, luck or karma- all that matters is how we deal with it. I just ram into so much in my life that I am trying to be more gentle to myself and my feelings. I have been trying to mend myself so much lately. Learn how to handle this. Idk how moms deal with soooo much negativity and crazy shit that happens within her family. Like meme and my mom. So much makes sense to me now. I know nothing makes you happy Alan. Not even me, and everytime you let me go- bc you say "you know you aren't good enough" I run back. Even though I can't love you through it, I still try to pour all of me into you. Because I love you. But both of us are so exhausted already. What's the meaning to life? Being in the present, self love...we destroy our planet and all that we have is this earth. There must be other planets with living organisms. Who knows why we are here. Ppl have babies to try to make themselves feel better and be happy. But the world is so corrupt why keep us around? I'm just sleeping and moving, I'm not "living." Being a virgo my purpose is "I serve." That's literally what life consists of and I actually 100% agree with that and know its true. Aries is "I am." Tbh with you you are the only reason why I want to live and it shouldn't be that way. You have too much power over me and no matter how much I want to trust..I just can't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm not letting myself have the strength to go on on my own </3.It's time. I'm thankful for the trees and that I can swim. I just want to swim away. Just keep swimming for the rest of my life....what's happiness? What's the purpose of life? Self love. That's all that I got. All that I have left. All that I'm trying to get to. I hope everything goes good for your out date too. I don't think we should we fuck. And I understand if you want to be with other people. I've been slowly peeling off the band aid and it's time to rip it off.

I still want to pick you up but I can’t sleep with you. You’re my best friend but I don’t want to lie to myself or you. You know I’m not your future. Are both of us suppose to walk alone our whole lives? You know you got me wrapped around your finger. Do you have to let it linger? I’m sorry I hurt you. I hope all that I’ve done has helped you begin your spiritual journey to the light. Happiness, optimism, self love & rightousness. You’re definitely the reason for mine. Crying all day.

You’ll be out here so soon. Taking on the world and conquering it...I love you warrior.