#it's not that fun imo to see oh i hate x character for ooc or unrelated reasons

[eorzeashan]

say what you will about Hunter but it's incredibly funny to me that if you choose to attack him when he says "I've dreamed of this--you and me tearing each other apart," he calls you a liar for calling him a 'sick man with sick dreams'. why are you mad i'm getting right to the ripping and tearing. i thought you wanted this. *eight's stoicism ruins hunter's romantic mood yet again*

it also reminds me of how ffxiv's zenos yae galvus will say 'hmph, still playing the part of the hero,' if you choose to not accept him. in more ways than one, these two characters are very alike in being obsessed with a hero-figure who finds them repulsive for trying to get close to them, and makes their own parasocial relationship with them in their mind and through mutual violence.

[xx-fruitboy-666-xx]

my CURRENT personal ranking of devilman content in terms of my preferences... subject to change if/when i consume more content

original 1972 manga (PLEASE LOOK AT ALL THE RYO MOMENTS. MIKI "THE HANDS" MAKIMURA. ZENNON AND SATAN INTERACTION. [ZENNON IS CONCERNED ABOUT HIS DEMONS!! INSTEAD OF DISREGARDING THEIR LIVES!!] SATAN MONOLOGUE IS ALSO STELLAR)

2. 1987 OVAs (PLEASE LOOK AT ALL THE RYO MOMENTS #2. THE ENGLISH DUB IS HILARIOUS AND SO BAD THAT IT'S GOOD. SILENE GIRLBOSS MOMENTS)

3. cb chara (i love how Silene and Kaim get more character development. a very light and funny series)

4. cyborg 009 vs devilman (still watching this actually)

5. amon apocalypse (designs are STELLAR, plot is not faithful to the manga. admittedly i only watched like 10 minutes of this)

6. crybaby (i don't like how Silene is rewritten to be hypersexual AND ALSO raped by Akira at all (ooc for Akira imo), i wish Miki had more moments to be an absolute badass as in the manga, and i hate crybaby Ryo's design oh my god why are you doing that to him WHY ARE YOU REMOVING ALL HIS NEURODIVERGENT ANGELBOY SWAGGER) (i love Jenny's design though she looks the coolest here) (also this particular adaptation was much more uncomfortable to watch for me relative to the ones above but that is likely the point given that the director said at one point that crybaby is meant to resemble what he figures Go Nagai would've done for the manga in the 70s, if i am not mistaken?)

7. devilman lady (only read the last 2 chapters and i hated it to begin with and all the summaries of the other chapters i hear. its only redeeming qualities is Michael's existence and how Satan and Akira get to team up at the end)

and where do i put that really weird spinoff demon king on here? it contradicts other lore that go nagai made!!

I HAVE NOT READ/WATCHED:

2004 live action (looks like dogshit, smells like dogshit, taste like dogshit??)

devilman grimoire (it looks fun!!)

violence jack (i think i would dislike it as much as, if not more than, what i know about devilman lady but that's because Ryo x Miki is such a thing i dont like and then it only seems to get more horrendously worse from there)

1972 devilman anime

amon the darkside of devilman (i'm sorry, i cannot get past the design... it does not look good to me)

shin devilman

neo devilman

the devilman lady anime (is it also dogshit? can i touch it? can i whack it? can i lick it? will it irradiate me with 376 kilograms of pure plutonium?)

anything else i have not listed i haven't consumed

did i mention that ive only been in this fandom for like 6 months?

EDIT: i do not outright hate seeing crybaby stuff and you are free to post any devilman content around me or discuss any of it with me! i just wanted to rank my personal preferences for what i know so far

[brw]

when did this fandom collectively decided to hate on hank (mccoy) and reed richards? i feel like a lot of people who hate on reed do simply out of pack/follow mentality bc at this point the xfandom decided that he is a mutantphobe sentinel-maker and a bad husband to sue but new people just accept it as the ultimate truth.

RIGHT??? VERY GLAD YOU SAID IT.

like. idk where they're getting this idea that reed is mutantphobic! like yeah he supported the superhero registration act but talk to ANY fantastic four fan and they'll tell you that was out of character. his literal back story for his powers is him going "no <3" to the government and stealing back his rocket like??? why is he suddenly NOW sucking government cock it makes no sense for him??? and within ff stories he's almost always been supportive of mutants! the fantastic four were SUPER close to the x-men. jean looked up to sue and reed especially. jean and johnny almost dated. it's only in zdarsky's x-men/ff run (which again, ask ANY fantastic four fan and they'll tell you that was not flattering for the characters in the SLIGHTEST. like events like that are not the best way to get introduced to a character! you can't make hard opinions on a character you've read 4 issues of lmao please for the love of god actually talk to people) where they decided to make reed and the rest mutantphobic. and i HATE that that was the introduction most x-men fans had to reed and sue. usually they're a lot better lmao i can assure you all that.

AND HANK. like i... i get the hate he gets! and honestly i am SO pissed he is now the x-writer's genius of choice to make fuck ups. like i hoped with sinister in krakoa (which makes no sense bc he is a mutate but that's a WHOLE different rant) hank could catch a gotdamn break listen to some oingo boingo make some fun little machines go on a date with his avengers bf but nope! they made him a fascist! AGAIN!!!! LIKE JFC HASN'T HE SUFFERED ENOUGH???????? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. like as much as x-fans like to dunk on the avengers (which imo is bullshit tbh like. events never make characters look flattering you can't read avx and decide that that is the most canon version of the characters that has ever been lmao) hank in my humble opinion was probably at his best there. smart, but not the go-too smart guy. he was shown to like fun and go on dates and go to parties but also still was very well-read and intelligent which especially recently x-writers haven't seemed to be able to balance. like ok. i admit i love hank's feline design its the one i use whenever i write him BUT. the personality change? vile. i mean it was realistic at first but its been drawn out wayy too much and i am just so tired. hank has always had a little bit of mad scientist in him but he was never a fucking fascist lmao. it doesn't make sense! anyway. yeah. hank is a good character and honestly deserved better treatment from fans. it's not his fault none of the recent writers like him 😔

now here i get to answer your question with my humble thoughts! i think both of them are hated on so much, reed especially, is because they're autistic coded. again, reed especially, who is mostly shown as low-empathy, which non-FF fans repeatedly like to make fun of and dehumanise him for. like tbh the AMOUNT of people who say "oh he's abusive because he doesn't love sue he loves science" like bro i. i'm begging you read a comic. or "he's abusive for not wanting franklin to go to krakoa" like bro the island is a cult. they have orgies. both apocalypse and sinister, both of which who believe in eugenics and "survival of the fittest" theory, one of which who has notably manipulated people into sleeping with each other to create the most powerful mutant possible to the point of creating a clone, are both given government seats. like can you NOT see what's wrong with that??? not to mention like. one of the first of franklin's powers to manifest was precognition. precogs aren't allowed on krakoa like its straight up not safe for franklin. like i agree he shouldn't have microchipped him w/o concent but again. talk to an ff fan please...

anyway yeah. a lot of it is refusing to actually read the material and deciding that after having read like 3 events/crossovers that you know everything about a character that's been around for 60 odd years. honestly like. have a lot of x-mutuals who i love to death so this isn't directed at them but tbh the x-comic fandom here is the most toxic out of all the comic fandoms here. like for the love of god stop acting like you know everything about a character n their opinions after reading one event. like if you can understand bad writing when it comes to your fave... maybe listen to people who are fans of that team or character when they tell you its ooc??? just a thought.

anyway reed richards and hank mccoy good they deserve SO much better then what they get. it's not cool to hate on autistic coded characters n you just make autistic people feel alienated and awkward. and listen to people who actually read the comics on the ppl ur insulting before you make any anti posts tbh like it is SO annoying

[kojoty]

oh ya i made a short thread on twitter but ill put this under a cut but here’s some of my loose thoughts about endgame. if you don’t wanna read it: over all, I felt there were some really good character beats and good endings to character arcs, and they did a good job of utilizing callbacks in a way that grounded the movie and made you think of the GOOD parts of the mcu (which was smart of them bc the mcu is bloated and unforgivable half the time, so calling to the best parts of it helped to make you remember why you LIKE these characters. manipulative? yes. but that’s how movies work). On the other hand, they butchered a lot of character moments, were sociopathic towards any character that had any issues with masculinity, and sidelined every female character so thoroughly I’m astonished that no one is talking about it. 

rest of my thoughts below the cut.

endgame did this really fun game with me personally where it would take really good and fun character beats and ruin them as sociopathically as possible

LEBOWSKI THOR: Has ptsd, acknowledges that he's having a panic attack, is textually Not A King anymore and passes the helm off to Valkyrie so he can become an Asgardian of the Galaxy, is cute and has long ass hair. oh but also literally every single joke is sheer fatphobia

TONY: has a proper send off, genuinely had an engaging storyline with his daughter, a truly harrowing dilemma when he finds out about time travel... But also HE kills thanos which is undeserved, and that speech about ULTRON? DEFENDING ULTRON? HELLO? It was so ooc and ANGERING.

PEPPER has a daughter n the scene where they discuss POSSIBLY LOSING HER and framed as pepper consoling tony and helping tony come to the conclusion and she BARELY thinks about her daughter once it's SO sociologically framed as TONY'S STORY ONLY NO PEPPER'S ALLOWED. THE MISOGYNY. THiS PART IS LITERALLY MIND BOGGLING Pepper is LITERALLY NOT ALLOWED OR WRITTEN TO HAVE ANY AUTONOMY THAT ISN’T ABOUT TONY’S CHARACTER ARC. Considering pepper has been a Very Strong Female Character in the mcu (and there’s criticisms to be made about that construction imo already), making her a Mom really relegates her to a VERY specific kind of misogyny . She, and Morgan the daughter, are tony’s PRIZES, his fantasies of domesticity, and pepper loses ALL of her characterization as a strong willed woman who talks back to and doesn’t take shit from tony because of Baby. It’s literally despicable.

GAMORA is from 2014 now and that's fine but it literally ERASES both movie's Gamora characterization and she's missing now. like HELLO? actually sidenote this film HATES WOMEN. IT HATES WOMEN. CAROL does NOTHING, VALK is barely there, OKOYE and SHURI barely do anything...

Like woo hoo fun feminist scene at the end :D but does it do anything? does it mean anything? A 5 second action sequence doesn’t negate theme after theme after theme of ‘women don’t matter past their use for men’ that is present throughout this ENTIRE film. It’s... It’s so WEIRD.

Nebula is the only woman who is allowed to DO anything in this film and even then, her struggle and past with thanos is completely sidelined to give captain america maaaaaan paaaaainnnnn and it's just UGH cry me a river steve. go play bingo you old bitch.

More gripes: Steve's arc was awful and I genuinely think it's disturbing that they turned Peggy into a "prize" for steve to have (despite her having kids and a husband, now that's erased from our canon). Plotholes of ‘he knew about x y and z and did NOTHING about it��� aside, the fact that he erased her husband and kids because he HAD to have that pussy is just............ it’s gross! it’s gross and TBQH it makes Sharon an even worse character in hindsight and it also makes so many scenes with bucky so hollow and flat. 

like im sorry but you can’t have a scene where steve whispers “bucky... is.... alive...” as the EMOTIONAL crux that will get his younger self to stop fighting him and then have his final scene where he LITERALLY DOESN’T EVEN SPEAK TO BUCKY AT ALL AND BUCKY JUST... IS COOL WITH THAT? It comes across as bucky realizing steve was toxic and not for him and walking away and it’s just. It’s SO WEIRD. The construction of their relationship is weird and I honest to god do think the russos hate bucky so much bc bucky is SUCH a homoerotic character by design and giving him any screen time means having to acknowledge that and the russos are terrified of gay people.

the good of that scene: yay sam is captain america ! that's dope! fun callback to the comics with old man steve! the bad: um does anyone else get the vibe that the russos literally hate bucky. and don't think steve cares about bucky at all. hello.

those are my gripes. the good: i thought it was paced well, i thought it was a fun trip and ride, there WAS really cool seeds of characterization and I'm VERY excited to see some of the solo movies and what comes out of them, scott lang was a delight and im glad he got screentime

loki. loki. loki. sambucky is really being set up for the show which is fun.i thought the framing of old thanos vs young thanos was REALLY cool and there were some REALLY cool fightscenes (the one with spiderman getting thrown around the battlefield was dope)

the first HOUR of this movie is literally just 'let's go deep into the logistics of how shattered and scarred a world that got snapped would be' n we get really deep introspection that honestly made me like black widow more than i was expecting (the film was CRAZY to her too tho)

This was... honestly a very strong film for Tony as a character and I think they did a good job minus the ultron rant of making him enjoyable. him and nebula's friendship was FANTASTIC and i wish it had been expanded on bc it was FUN as shit

um. there's a lot i liked actually but. it was over all a fun experience superrisingly and it doesn't FEEL like three hours went by, bc i was engrossed enough in the film that i wasn't thinking about what time it was. id give it like a 60-70 percent over all.

[ducavalentinos]

Hey, what are in your opinion the best fiction and nonfiction books about the Borgia family? And why?

Hey anon!

It took me awhile to answer this because is always a tricky question for me lol. I think I’m rather picky when it comes to them, but also I’m constantly changing my mind. Anyways here it goes:

Best:

The Poisoner Mysteries, Sara Poole:  So, I must say that the main character, Francesca, can be very annoying and completely unrealistic as a woman in the 14th. But these trilogy has been my favorite so far because the Borgia family is written amazingnly well. I was suprised actually! The writer achieved such a wonderful characterizion of Cesare, a rare balance of giving him his humanity, but also acknowledging his flaws. I adore her Cesare. Her Lucrezia is fine here, didn’t bothered me, she has great dialogues. And her Rodrigo is pretty much how I see him irl. Also there’s a lot of mysteries, which I love. I just had a lot of fun reading it, it was delightful.

Fuyumi Soryo, Cesare: Il Creatore che ha distrutto: I think is brilliant how Soryo showed that serious, historical fiction about the Borgia family can be done without resorting to old clichés and sensationalistic gossip, and still make it fun and entertaining. I’m grateful for the respect and dedication her and her team have showed towards Cesare. And I just love everything about her manga. The main character, Angelo, is great. The relationship he develops with both Cesare and Miguel is so so good! The Medici family is also great here. Lucrezia is adorable! Rodrigo is again, exactly how I see him. And last but not least, the drawings! especially the coloured ones are stunning. So much detail, it’s a work of art, really.

Mario Puzo, The Family: It’s like a classic Borgia fiction, some people hate it, but I absolutely love it! If you must take advantage of all the rumors and misdeeds that surrounds the Borgia family, then I expect you should do it as masterfully as Puzo did it.

Sara Bower, Sins of the House of Borgia:  I love it because 1) The main character is super relatable to me sorry not sorry lool, 2) Bower wrote Lucrezia so so well. A complex, well rounded character, that’s neither a victim nor a poisoner. Which it’s how I see her irl. Her writing is beautiful too. Those Cesare and Lucrezia’s letters had me dying!!!!! That being said, I must say that nowdays her Cesare feels ooc sometimes, and her Vannozza still feels rather harsh and unfair imo. But overall it remains a favorite of mine.

Françoise Sagan, Le Sang Doré Des Borgia: I actually haven’t read the book, but the book is basically the transcription of the tv series, which I watched and it’s my favorite Borgia adaptation! I don’t know how Sagan did it, but her Lucrezia is amazing and accurate and ughh what a queen!

Worst:

Jean Plaidy, Madonna of the Seven Hills/ Light on Lucrezia: OH MY GOD, these books are so cringely bad I think the only reason I was able to finish is because it was my first borgia fiction and even then, I suffered getting through with it. Everyone is ooc af. There is one or two good dialogues between Lucrezia and Cesare, but overall what a disaster! I still don’t understand wth the writer was thinking while she was writing that, nor how you can get the WHOLE family all wrong at the same time??? But yeah, I guess that happens sometimes idk lmaoo.

Sarah Dunant, Blood and Beauty: Listen, if you go to Goodreads, you’ll see how praised this book is. And I do admit Dunant is a good writer. However, she is on this side of my list for a very simple reason: she made me hate Lucrezia. Goddd, she tries way too hard to present Lucrezia as the good girl™, beacon of innocence and goodness, and what comes out of it is this incredibly annoying, dull and stupid character that made me roll my eyes each time I had to read her dialogues like: Oh no, more bullshit! can we just go back to Cesare and Rodrigo? their servants? Juan? Joffre? literally anyone would be more interesting to read than her Lucrezia istg. Also if you are a cesare x lucrezia shipper, just know that in order for Dunant to keep Lucrezia on this ridiculous and unrealistic pedestal, their relationship had to be sabotaged. So don’t be fooled by the hardcover copy, nor the lovely dialogues at the beginning, it gets bittesweet pretty fast. And as if all this wasn’t enough, I still had to read with my own two eyes Dunant claiming her book is as close to real life as possible. Just no. Unacceptable. I realized this ended up becoming a mini-rant, sorry anon! I just really loathe this book. It broke my confidence on Goodreads’s review system, that’s for sure.

Elena/Michela Martignoni, Cuore di Tiranno/Verdugo de Tiranos: Too sensationalistic and badly written. And it does have unnecessary violence against women. It would be one thing if they could back that up with hard evidence, which they can’t. All we have is a bunch of theories, so how their minds went where it did there is kinda disturbing imo. It’s not type of reading.

Dumas, The Borgias: Not so much for how he uses and abuses of all the Borgia alleged “sins”, but because his writing is very confusing. It’s too dry to be fiction, but it doesn’t work as non-fiction either because there are some dialogues sometimes. It’s weird and I couldn’t finish it.

Non-fiction:

So, I kinda answered this one here. I would only add that Woodward’s bio on Cesare is not too bad. I mean there were times I wanted to quit reading it, but his last chapters are ok and he offers a good amount of sources and evidence, which I always appreciate.