#it’s why the cersei Alicent comparison will never make sense

[dulcewrites]

Idk…. there’s something so weirdly misguided imo about people thinking boderline comically evil, vicious women = always complex or well written. Most women aren’t… honestly most PEOPLE aren’t like that regardless of the time period or setting.

It’s why I’ll never get the people who say book Alicent (who honestly is not even as awful as make her out to be but I digress) is more complex or well written than show Alicent. It’s one thing to have a preference, but to pretend what George wrote for basically all the women in f&b is just so deep is fallacy lmao

[dwellordream]

"she's patriarchy-pilled" and why it doesn't apply to fictious pseudo-medieval women

a pretty common meta commentary leveled at certain female characters in ASOIAF is that you can divide the women of the setting into two groups.

the first group is full of strong feminist women who resist the patriarchy in all corners, and who refuse to submit to victimhood. the second group is full of placid, smug sheep, who enjoy being weak and condescended to by men.

reasons why this is bullshit:

comparisons between modern day 'trad wives' or 'red pilled women' who advocate for rejecting feminism and returning to lives of happy homemaking and female submission and fictional characters living in a pseudo medieval world just... don't work well.

Westeros has never had a feminist movement. there is no sense of 'getting back to tradition' because they are still living in a feudal patriarchy. while internalized misogyny can still be displayed in the books, and women certainly judge other women, these characters aren't actually 'rejecting their own freedom', because they quite literally have no choice in the matter.

for example, while a woman in 21st century America might willingly quit her job or drop out of school for a relationship with a man, a female character like Catelyn or Alicent or Cersei... isn't actually sacrificing hopes of a career or an education. they are being shunted down a path with little to no alternatives.

sometimes fans go "well, they could have run away! they could have joined the Faith?" how? with what money and resources? who is going to protect them on the road? how are they going to subvert the will of their fathers/brothers/etc?

don't get me wrong. there are absolutely unironic examples of internalized misogyny in ASOIAF. Cersei, for example, spends much of her time sneering at and degrading other women for being victims or weak-willed. HOWEVER, what many fans don't seem to grasp, is that being sexist towards other women doesn't magically make Cersei 'win' at the patriarchy. she herself is still abused, demeaned, and used as a political pawn, well into her tenure as Queen Regent.

in the endless battle of Sansa versus Arya stans, for example, Sansa stans will often claim that Arya is 'not a victim' and 'deserves less sympathy than Sansa', because Arya for a time is treated as a young boy and has training with a sword. yet this ignores the fact that Arya is still constantly threatened with or exposed to sexual violence, even while masquerading as a boy, and while she can defend herself in some instances, is far from this super-powered action chick on a 'fun road trip in the Riverlands'.

conversely, Arya stans will insinuate that Sansa 'deserves less sympathy than Arya' because 'being at court is what she always wanted' and 'the patriarchy favors her due to her self-serving, submissive ways'. yet this ignores the fact that while Sansa has more material privileges than Arya, being afforded regular meals, a soft place to sleep, and the veneer of civility, she is still regularly viciously abused by Joffrey and his Kingsguard, and ostracized and isolated from the rest of the court. Sansa's not winning any competition here.

to move on to Catelyn, many of Catelyn's proud 'antis' will claim that Catelyn is a woman who willingly and knowingly profits off the patriarchy while condemning women who do not fit that mold. yet while Catelyn and Arya's relationship is complex, we also see Catelyn treat Brienne and the Mormont women, all female warriors, with warmth and kindness, and there is an underlying current of resentment and anger in her chapters towards the men in her life, even though she is in many ways the 'ideal Westeros wife'.

finally, to dabble briefly in HOTD, Rhaenyra and Alicent's different reactions to the prospect of marriage and motherhood are often compared to triumph Rhaenyra's strong will and sense of rebellion. while Rhaenyra's determination to choose her own spouse and her disregard for the ridiculous notion of 'virginity' should be admired, she is also actively groomed by her uncle, a man thrice her age, and she ultimately does agree to an arranged marriage with Laenor.

meanwhile, Alicent is often derided by fans for 'allowing herself to be used as a pawn', yet this ignores the fact that Alicent is a 14/15 year old girl with no incomes or property of her own, who does not even have the threat of a dragon to demand respect. what was Alicent meant to do? kick and scream as she was dragged down the aisle? defy her father and the King, and be, best case scenario, permanently ostracized from court and her family for it? this sort of blatant victim-blaming dominates in the tumblr HOTD fandom.

in conclusion: to claim that women play no role in promulgating patriarchal and misogynistic views is silly.

women do play an active role in shaming and abusing other women, and this is often handed down from mothers to daughters. it allows patriarchs the veneer of genteel nature, in that the 'dirty work' of berating young girls for not conforming is passed off on mothers, sisters, and aunts.

however, in fandom discussions, the the woobification of male characters is so strong that we spend most of our time blaming women alone for patriarchal restrictions and values, as if it were something girls developed in their free time, purely for their own amusement.

to imply that a character in a fictional feudal patriarchy has the same range of choices and autonomy as modern day women do is absurd. the trad-wife movement is defined by its knowing, pseudo-intellectual rejection of second and third wave feminism. the entire point is to turn away from abortion, from birth control, from reproductive and LGBT rights, to leave behind women's suffrage, sex positivity, and criticism of gender roles.

but what do Westerosi women have to 'reject', exactly? they're not playing with the same full deck.

[thattargboy]

What’s your perspective on the fight at Driftmark?

Short answer: I don’t blame Aemond (or. I blame him a little because disrespect, but the kid lost an eye so he gets sympathy points), I especially don’t blame Rhaena or Baela, they did nothing wrong 🥰. I kinda blame Luke and Jace because they were the ones with the knife, but mostly their parents because why was no one watching these kids???? Should there not have been a guard outside their rooms or something????

Very long and repetitive answer: I understand that as soon as Laena died Vhagar was a free dragon, and “technically” Rhaena had no claim over her. That doesn’t change the fact that she was an eight year old girl who has just lost her mother (who had ordered that dragon to kill her and that definitely factors in), so I understand why she felt entitled to try to claim her and why she hadn’t attempted it yet.

So yeah needless to say, claiming Vhagar during the night of the funeral was very disrespectful on Aemond’s part. Does it make sense why he did it? Absolutely. He was like 10 (?12?) being bullied by his big brother and his nephews and he wanted to prove himself by claiming the oldest and biggest dragon in the world because It Be Like That, and yeah he was technically right in like that Rhaena “should have” tried to claim Vhagar. But like I said. Eight year old girl at her mom’s funeral. And also Rhaena understands what it feels like to feel inadequate over lacking a dragon so really Aemond what’s your play?

Also we have no idea that Vhagar would have even accepted Rhaena if she did try to claim her, but honestly I think she would have. No real reason there other than vibes so feel free to disagree.

Ultimately, Baela, Rhaena, Luke and Jace should have gone to guards or their parents if they thought something was going on with Vhagar but then again they were kids so I don’t blame for not doing so, and I think we all have taken something into our own hands when we kids that we should have went to adults for (I do however blame their parents for not having anyone watching them and instead banging on the beach at his wife’s funeral). But like. They weren’t being watched and they took things into their own hands, like kids do, and they reacted very emotionally and got into a fight (and no, 4v1 is not fair, but also they are all like 12 and under. I know y’all have seen playground fights like that in your youth. If they were older I’d be like oh yeah fuck all four of them), like kids do.

And honestly if Aemond didn’t lose an eye I probably would just be like “haha little shit got what he deserves,” because like. Not to sound like Bobby B here cuz fuck that guy but. Kids fight. It’s a thing they do because like emotional regulation is undeveloped and all over the place. It’s over. (Thinking about it because that scene was an obvious parallel to the one in GoT, making that comparison with Cersei and Alicent is both genius and fills me with rage)

But to get back on track, Aemond did lose an eye, and y’know permanent mutilation and a scuffle between cousins (and uncle/nephews) are two very different things.

Jace never should have brought the knife and honestly for once I can’t really see the kid logic there. I guess I can compare it to like being a kid and thinking you hear a burglar and instead of waking up your parents you grab a bat (okay now I’m seeing the kid logic, Jace you’re free to go. Still why did he even have a dagger in the first place kid’s like 9???)

And then there’s Luke, who I’m giving some leniency because he’s the youngest, but again even a 7 year old knows better then to cut a boy’s eye out.

Like yeah from his perspective Aemond was about to brain his brother with a rock so yeah I kinda get it. But us as viewers are not 7 year olds in the middle of a fight, and we could see that Aemond was not moving, and really Luke should have been able to see that too but also, need I say it again? A kid in the middle of a fight. I honestly kinda thought it looked like Aemond was gonna put it down but no one else seems to think that so I’m just gonna assume I’m wrong

Ultimately what I think the problem was no one was punished. Back to sounding like Bobby B because obviously none of the kids should have tortured (or sharply questioned) or lost an eye as compensation (really girlie, charging with his knife is iconic but very stupid). But to bring it back to the playground thing, if that was fight in an elementary school all of those kids would have been getting in trouble.

Instead Viserys threatened his wife and children over the truth. So. Yeah. Fuck all the adults in that situation.

(Also I do understand and sympathize with both Alicent and Rhaenyra in that scene. Alicent’s son has been made permanently disabled and no one is on her side not even the child’s father, it makes sense that she kinda snapped, and yes even though it is the truth, calling her children bastards puts their lives and their inheritance in danger, of course they’re both going to try and protect their children it’s what mothers do. Understandable and sympathetic, and even justifiable doesn’t mean they were exactly in the right however.)

Westeros needs some sort of man price, at the very least Luke should have been made to apologize (and then apologize again when he’s older and actually means it instead of laughing at the pig) and in a world where we got more episodes and they emphasized that this is a family we’re watching tear itself apart I would have liked to seen Aemond at least try to put water under the bridge with Rhaena and only Rhaena (and maybe Baela but she wasn’t really involved) when they’re older.

(Like maybe if we got to see Aegon and Helaena’s wedding, and Rhaenyra’s family was invited. That could’ve been cool.)

All that said (and sorry for saying so much), the way everything played out makes sense and I wouldn’t change it except like I said with like older Aemond and Rhaena attempting to make amends before shit hits the fan.

[evilsapphyre]

Sapphy’s Spoilerific Review

Season 7 Episode 1

In case the title isn’t specific enough, this will be a very spoiler-filled review for Game of Thrones. 

You have been warned!

Welcome back to HBO and Westeros. It's been a long 13 months or so. But finally, we can find out what is in store for our intrepid heroes, and villains, and people we just kind of wish would stop existing.

After a lengthy previous on, we open at The Twins, with another feast hosted by... Walder Frey? Wait, didn't he get his throat slit after eating pie made of his sons. Apparently, he gathered all his sons to feast them again… And he wants them to eat and drink and be merry. Mostly. He still has his dislike of them women of his.

Of course, his actual speech seems a bit strange, almost like he's not really himself. And sure enough, as they all drink their poisoned wines, Arya rips off her Walder suit to watch them die too. And as the women stare on in horror, she tells them to spread the word - The North Remembers.

Yep, you better believe it, bitches! (Someone from the North had to!)

We then head beyond the Wall, where, in case we forgot, the White Walkers are coming. And if that’s not terrifying enough (and it's a really gorgeous shot over snow with mist), there are at least 3 undead Giants! Oh snap! If only they hadn't wasted the last living Giant on getting back Winterfell from Ramsey. RIP Wun-wun!

It seems we get that vision courtesy of Bran and his ever-flowing weirwood wifi connection. Thankfully, Meera saw Wonder Woman this Summer and dragged Bran to safety, as IIRC, Uncle Benjen left them quite a hike away from the gate. Lord Commander Dolorous Edd greets the wayward pair at the gate, wanting to know if they are wildlings. Meera introduces them, but the new LC is rather doubtful. Rather than prove who they are, Bran just states all he's ever seen about Edd, and they are admitted back to the proper North… south of the Wall.

Up next, we find ourselves in Winterfell. Jon is being all Kingly, dictating orders on how they are going to get ready for the coming War. He wants all their dragon glass, and beyond that all able bodied man, woman, and child will prepare for the upcoming war. What, women can't, or shouldn't, fight?! Old School Northern Man tries to claim (in front of Brienne no less!).

Fortunately, we still have hope for Westeros. And to continue making old men look dumb, young Lyanna Mormont slaps him (and any other male daring to think like that ) verbally upside their heads. I'm pretty sure that she’s the true leader of Westeros. I wonder how long it will take the rest of the Queens to realize it?

All hail Lyanna, first of Her Name.

What will Ser Friendzone do when he finds his baby sister on the Iron Throne?

Anyways, I digress!

Jon asks Tormund and the Wildlings to man Eastwatch by the Sea! Good riddance, I say! Tormund needs to go far away from my Brienne, as she awaits her maiden fair. Tormund must realize he’ll never have her and agrees to his suicide mission. (Not before a later scene with a lustful sigh from the Wildling as Brienne tries to dissuade his advances by beating up on Pod.)

Next, Jon needs to handle business regarding the family holds of the Umbers and Karstarks. He wants the families to keep them. Old School Lord wants to destroy them. Sansa pipes up and wants to reward faithful houses with the new keeps. Jon and her bicker in front of the Lords, and it is clear she wishes she was in charge. Jon finally slaps her down with his stern voice, reminding her that HE is king. He asks tiny Lord Umber and Alice Karstark (uhm, why isn't Tormund all about her? He married her in the books) to say the words. And that was the end of that squabble.

Except Sansa and him keep squabbling once they leave the meeting. He tells her plainly to not undermine him in front of the lords. And she whines about not being able to voice her opinion. Now I'm all about female empowerment, but there is a time and place for voicing opinions. Apparently, she forgot. Much like she forgot about telling Jon about the Vale Knights last season.

Anyways, she practically calls him Joffrey because he doesn't want people to see him bicker in public with people. Because it does undermine his authority. He's appalled at the comparison, but she quickly recants saying he's a good ruler. The conversation turns towards Sansa feeling they're looking the wrong way for War. They should be looking South. She diatribes about how awful and cunning Cersei is, but Jon says he knows how bad the real threat is. Plus, no Southern army could last in their Winter. After all, they're Siberia.

He also points out how Sansa seems to admire Cersei.

Which segues us to King's Landing... and Cersei walking across a huge painted floor map of Westeros. Jaime follows her and establishes that he may still be pod-Jaime. (BOOO!) I'm also sensing a theme of bickering siblings as the two are squabbling over things like... how many Kingdoms and dynasties.

Jaime is more sensible than Cersei pointing out that they essentially have no allies (especially since the report out of the Twins has come down) and that all of their children are dead. There's no one left for a dynasty.Especially since Cersei disregards her other brother who she knows is Hand of the Queen for Dany. That only makes her seethe more, and she throws that in Jaime's face.

And really, don't get me started on pod-Jaime and how he wanted to talk about losing their baby boy. He knew King Butters killed himself, so does he know his sister went all Mad King on Sept of Baelor? (Hint: The only acceptable answer is HELL NO! Otherwise, she'd be dead.)

Anyways, when discussing all of their enemies, there are two major foreshadowing hammers: Highgarden, home to the Queen of Thorns, has all the food, and Dany will land on Dragonstone. All the more reason that they need allies in this upcoming war. Cersei points out that she does have an ally in mind, and she learned quite a bit from her father. (Doubtful!)

Enter Euron Greyjoy and the Ironborn fleet, looking for love in all the wrong places. There is an overly machismo display by Euron as he tries to display his plumage for Cersei. He paints a picture of how they were both betrayed by family who defected to the Targs. He makes a few promises and then proposes marriage. After all, he has two good hands. (Pod-Jaime pantomimes quite well in the scene, offering to stick him with his sword.) She declines him, but he says he'll prove he’s worthy and leaves.

We move to Oldtowne and the Citadel, where Sam… Has become an indentured servant of the Maester Order. If we weren't sold on how awful his "tutelage" is, we are given a lengthy montage where he puts away books, cleans filthy shit-filled chamber pots, and pours soup that looks quite like the shit in the pots. Blech! He wants to desperately get into the restricted book section, but he sadly doesn't have a Cloak of Invisibility like a different would be wizard in another series. So instead, he heads off to speak with Ol' Slughorn himself.

Slughorn gives him some advice on what it really means to be a Maester, and how impartial they should be. He reminds them that even in the darkest of hours, ages of ago, people succeeded, and so they will again. But he still can't have access to the books. I mean, horcruxes and all. So, Sam steals the key, steals a bunch of books, and goes back to his Wildling baby mama and kid. He then discovers that Stannis told him the truth about there being a bunch of Dragon Glass on Dragonstone. We also get one brief glimpse of Ser Friendzone, who managed to get to Oldtowne in search of a cure. He's still hung up on Dany too. Even as he turns to stone.

The Hound and the Brotherhood are still moving towards the North. It's snowing pretty hard in the Riverlands, and their banter is kind of boring. (To me anyways.) However, they come across the cottage where The Hound stole the silver of the kindly farmer who helped him and Arya years ago. He wants to be a better guy, and now he has guilt for the fact that he may have killed these people - indirectly.

The Hound has a funny comment about how he ended up with a cult of fire worshippers, but he sees the power of the fire when Beardy McTopknot tells him to. And it works just like that, as Clegane sees the upcoming icy death of the North. If that didn't bond them, Beardy McTopknot and Clegane also bury the dead farmer and his kid in the middle of the night.

Arya and Sansa are spotted each in different scenes. Arya stumbles across some Lannister soldiers, and she does the age old "Tell them the truth" after she befriends them, but they just laugh at her comment about killing the Queen. For a moment, she looked like she would kill these soldiers, but she hasn't become a full sociopath yet clearly. (Although, props to them for singing the song that the musician wrote in the books about Shae.) Sansa has a small chat with Baelish, and I'm sure it leads somewhere, but I wish she would decide who she is supporting - even if it's herself. This waffling of hers... It's getting old! Prove you've learned the game by doing something that will actually accomplish something. (And if you want to top Cersei, just side with Littlefinger long enough to get what you want and then dispose of him.)

Finally, we come to Dragonstone, where Dany has finally come home!

There's not much to say other than that this is a beautiful sequence, and they spared no expense on this set. Nothing is said, and really, it would have taken away if people said anything. And can I just say that the throne at Dragonstone is like so much more awesome than the damn Iron Throne? Sign me up for the interior (and exterior) decorator. I could use some dragon accents around my house.

That pretty much encapsulates the episode. Tune in next week to see what happens next As Westeros Turns.