#it’s about how all Undertale routes are fundamentally about proving his kill or be killed philosophy right or wrong

[bread-that-draws]

Feels a lil stuck up to call myself a "big undertale account" but plenty did reblog my version where I just added a sc of your tags and say that you're based 👍😭 stay based forever op!!

Omg bitches love me for my insane ramblings and my tags that I send out into the world without a second thought like a baby bird

EDIT I DECIDED TO CHECK YOUR ACCOUNT BEFORE POSTING THIS AND LITERALLY JUST NOTICED YOUVE MADE SOME OF MY FAVORITE UT FANART WTF thank you big Undertale account keep making me cry

[absolutelyunsupervised]

With Deltarune Chapter 2 being out, a lot of people are theorizing about a bunch of stuff, and I saw one theory from the undertale times reappear, about Chara controlling the player character into committing the no mercy route. So, I’d like to present you my counter theory, aka “Chara Is Not Evil: Undertale Theory”, which I’m putting under the readmore bc this will be a long one.

((a note which i added here after finishing writing this: it’s less of a theory and more of a presentation of a theme of pressure that is present during the entire game and how it affected a literal kid into doing what they did. I plan on making this into a series of rambles which put togheter will be the very messy counter theory.

So, I’d like to start with powerful fundaments for my theory, which why I’d like to talk about the reoccuring theme of responsibility and pressure.

Each important character of Undertale has a reason for why they have to fight the human. Each has a drive, that makes them stand in front of a literal child, block their way, to achieve a certain goal. 

The first monster like that is Toriel. The queen of underground, the person which didn’t lose one child, didn’t lose 2 children, but lost a whole set of 8 kids. Chara, Asriel, and the 6 fallen kids which we know that she stopped and cared for, till they decided to leave. When Frisk tells her that they want to leave, she is placed under the pressure of fear, that another child she cared for is going to be killed.

Next we meet Papyrus. Aspiring Royal Guard with no friends who is trying to prove his worth. While walking through Snowdin we can see the many ways Papyrus is trying to prove his worth, through construction of puzzles, traps, as well as visual masterpieces that are the Papyrus snowman or the bridge (yes, that is a stone bridge that Papyrus hyperrealistically painted to resemble a wooden bridge). Capturing a human would mean that all his dreams would come true. He would become the hero of underground, prove to Undyne he is worthy enough to join the royal guard, and obtain fame and friendship.

Next we meet Undyne, the heroine of underground who is relentless in trying to hunt down the human. She knows humanity as a great danger to monsterkind and their souls as last hope of freedom. When Frisk appears, for her it means there is a threat to those she cares about as well as a chance for finally breaking free. She can feel the responsibility of being the captain of royal guard, the force responsible for capturing/killing humans. The hopes and dreams of entire underground.

Next we meet Alphys. A scientist who is trying to live up to the genius of the previous royal scientist who mysteriously disappeared. She has a basement full of people who she was trying to save from dying, only for it to bring unforseen consequences, the creation of amalgamates. She has a crush that she is too scared to ask out. And she has a lot of negative emotions about herself. The pressure from the job and emotions, responsibility for her mistakes.

Then there is Mettaton. Star of the Underground that was bringing hope to the lives of monsters, keeping their spirits up during very hard times. We meet his fans all over the place, people who have a reason to keep going thanks to him. We know he dreams of being the ultimate star, of making it big, afterall, he is the hope of underground, the shining light. And the soul of a human would let him go above it.

Then there is Muffet. While she is a lesser character, the theme is still there. There is a whole family of poor spiders that she is trying to support.

Asgore. The King of the Underground. While walking through every location, we hear quite a lot about him. We know he is loved by his people. He goes to the school to help with teaching kids, he talks with his citizens, he takes the role of santa during christmas, but most importantly, he is working towards freeing the monster kind. Waging a war against humanity, he has collected 6 out of 7 souls needed, monsterkind is on the verge of freedom. When walking around New Home, you meet a lot of monsters, which are talking with you about it. The entire underground is placing their hope in this old, divorced man, who lost his entire family. And we know it’s an incredible weight on his shoulders.

And Asriel. The kid that put everything on one card, lost his best and only friend, and then found himself in the form of a flower, unable to feel love. During the fight with him, we can see how much he wants to win. We can also once again see the monsters we met along the way, the goals they want to achieve, their fears, the pressure that they feel.

I could go on and on about this, but what I’m trying to tell here, is that this theme of having a certain goal and being put under incredible pressure to achieve it is a theme that’s HEAVILY REOCCURING thorough the entire game. It’s literally everywhere.

And here comes Chara.

A kid, who hates humanity, and climbs the legendary mountain. The mountain which, as the legend says, all who climb will never be seen again. They fall down into the Underground and are adopted into a loving family of monsters. Then they find out that all those monsters that have shown so much compassion to them are trapped in that mountain. Trapped by humans. And that with the power of their soul, a monster could cross the barrier to obtain enough souls to break it, and free monsterkind. Then they find out about the legend, of an angel who comes from above to free monsterkind.

Chara lived with the royal family, the one which was supposed to care for all monsters and have definetily been under a lot of pressure because of that. The pressure, that Toriel and Asgore felt during that time must’ve been something that their kids noticed and felt too.

Chara, this kid already had plenty of reasons to hate humanity. And then was only given more and more, and they were a human themself. They could pay for the crimes of humanity and at the same repay the kindness they received from monsters. 

It’s the pattern that we observed through the entire game, where each character is under incredible pressure, and it all builds up and builds up till we reach a kid who sacrificed themself to save monsterkind.

I know this is like, less of a theory and more of a ramble. And it’s not really well structured or anything like that. I just wanted to clearly present under how much pressure this poor kid was, to explain why they did what they did.

In the future I might write more about Chara to show different proof of why they aren’t evil. And with that add more about the role Asriel played in the plan, as that’s also an important part.

[dwindlingashesburnt]

Undertale ideas

...I don't generally like angst, but a majority of Undertale angst seems to centre around Sans in some way, the concept of resets or of genocide routes, or of one of the people capable of resets going "ahahahah no consequences I can do whatever evil things I like and you can't stop me!!!"

Well

I'd like to propose a different variation for undertale angst - namely someone capable of resets going "oh fuck oh no there's no consequences oH FUCK HELP ME"

I mean.

Think about it.

All three capable of resets - Chara, Frisk and Flowey - have every single basic rule for life on Earth flung out the window, and are then told on top of that "btw no consequences for you, lol". Are they going to say "hell yeah, sweet"? Nope.

They're going to freak the fuck out. The fundamentals of how they understand the universe have just been torn out from under them - they're KIDS, they haven't made their own rules for their worldview yet, not really, they just have the fundamentals.

Think about those fundamentals:

What comes up, must go down, everything falls -> uh yeah gravity magic exists so that immediately goes out the window

What happens, happens, time cannot be rewritten -> ...resets.

There will be some form of consequence or reaction for every action taken -> ...well kind of a bit, but resets ultimately mean it doesn't make any difference, there are no TRUE consequences which means it likely very quickly fewla like there are none true or technical

For Chara and Frisk specifically, magic breaks the laws of physics, as does stuff like the snow in Snowdin, the whole concept of intent causing harm an of SOULs existing is also likely to rip the floor out from under their feet. I know most of this would be somewhat old news for Chara but I'm thinking it may end up being the straw that breaks the camel's back type thing

For Chara and Flowey specifically, their very existence is now likely to tear a pretty huge gap in their worldview. Flowey is now FLOWEY the flower, has no soul, potentially has his magic messed up due to the different form and or soul issues, does he even need to eat as a flower? Does he need sunlight, hell, does he photosynthesise? What about Chara - the fuck, how are they even existing? How if at all are they linked to Frisk? Were they aware since their death? Do they know anything about Frisk?

Further point for Chara and Flowey -> how much time, if any, has passed since the last time they were aware? Is the Underground drastically different to what they remember? What about their brief trip to the surface, when compared to Frisk and or Frisk's experiences??

Frisk specifically-> HUGE UNDERGROUND with MONSTERS and MAGIC and hoooollly shhiiiiittt what. Shouldn't that fall have killed them?

All -> the concept or lack thereof of an afterlife is probably a pretty huge knock to their worldview too

So now you must imagine these kids, who have had everythig and anything they could base their understanding, predictions, actions or reactions on, torn out from under them, leaving them completely lost and probably extremely panicked. Oh, they also have literally no idea what's happening....unnnntil they do, ok, they now have a huge amount of power that doesn't really help them at all with little knowledge to back it up and NO GROUNDRULES to guide them

Like this post sucks so bad compared to the idea in my head but like. I'm imagining Flowey and Papyrus getting on well because Flowey came up with his own rules to replace the usual gravity and time and consequences...But they don't make that much sense, his rules, however Flowey has made em a fundamental part of his worldview so anytime he sees them violated it sends him right off the deep emd, flailing as the world is again pulled out from under him, often resulting in panic, and or anger, and or violence. But he gets on well with Papyrus because Papyrus is very good at figuring out the fundamental rules of Flowey's worldview, and then operating within those rules - meaning he is one of few or perhaps the only person whom Flowey doesn't inevitably get distressed spending time with

I'm also imagining that Chara and Frisk very notavly don't make their own rules, but stubbornly cling to what should be their foundation but no longer is. This results in them taking a rather short route to a rapidly impeding breakdown as they frantically keep trying to prove the usual rules in any way they can. They try good consequences for their actions at first, but that doesn't really work out too well, and they can't figure out how to get out from the Underground so they inevitably get killed and end up resetting no matter what they do (meaning no sense of permanancy can be added to the other issues), so instead they start gradually doing things that SHOULD have worse and worse consequences. But they don't, not really. For one thing, it can be undone in a blink of an eye, for another...Well. There's no real consequence for Toriel or amy of the unnamed monsters anywhere in game. You don't find out the consequences for Papyrus' death until much later - late enough that it probably no longer feels like a connected sequence of events to these two kids who went throygh who knows how many resets getting from a to b anywsy - and Papyrus certainly doesn't hint at any consequences himself. He forgives them - who wants to bet that feels more like a slap to the face than anything else, to these two increasingly hysterical children who are starting to feel the world isn't quite real, they aren't quite real, none of it matters because no matter what they do they're not meeting any real consequences...

Imagine when Sans pretends to offer mercy. Imagine the kid(s) feel a dull roaring in their ears, because just when it seemed like they'd finally met some sort of consequence...Imagine them sprinting up to Sans with renewed fury as what's left of the two kid's sanity splinters along with the last remains of any solid worldview. Imagine they finally manage to kill Sans and sort of go into shock for a minute, because no. Nononono that wasn't supposed to happen, he said that was the consequences, that was no real consequence, what are they supposed to...

They don't care what the consequence is at this point, just something real and solid that proves that their actions affect things in the world and have been acknowledged felt and witnessed by other real living people.

Imagine Chara, in a fit of dark humour, asks Frisk, wheezing between paindul laughter as they demand to know "Do you think you are above consequences?"

Frisk can't breathe for a moment. They gasp, their breath hitches. A "Yes" escapes and then a child or two is half laughing, half crying, absolutely hysterical as they rock, trying to comfort themselves and each other. Neither of them notice until a good twenty minutes later that a near constant mantra of "yes yes I am we are above consequences yesyesyes there are no consequences none yesyesyes we are above, we are, oh god please help, helpmehelpmehelpus, yes, yes, yes" has barely stopped since Chara asked that question. They think, or would have, if either of them could think anywhere near coherently, that they may have had a bit of a panic attack there. Just a bit. They have no idea how long they were freaking out for - they try to check, turns out it was a couple of hours. They thought it was ten minutes.

IMAGINE THEY HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO ERASE THE WORLD they don't, but only because of the same type of mental block that stops you crunching your finger like a carrot. the realisation that they have that option, however, sends them into a near catatonic state for the equivalent of hours (saves and resetsare screwy). Then one or both of them decides now would be a good time to reset

IMAGINE THESE TWO KIDS GOING ON A COMPLETE GENOCIDAL RUN AND THEN FACING EVERY SINGLE PERSON THEY SLAUGHTERED AND WERE SLAUGHTERED BY, AS THOUGH NOTHING HAPPENED

imagine what that does a the psyche of these two kids who aint even 18 and quite possibly arent even teens?

Imagine Sans and or Papyrus thinking they're stuck in this hell of resets. Imagine Sans, determined that there is his friend, and there is the evil anomoly.

Imagine the people in control of those resets being as much if not more of a victim than the rest. Imagine Sans coming across a hysterical child having a fit of emotion and fear that mostly involves screaming and crying or laughing a lot and breaking things, because why not? It's not like they'll face any consequences for it.

Sans eventually figures out what's wrong with Chara and Frisk, very roughly anyway, and immediately goes...Ohhhhhh. Shit. Fuck. Fuckityfuckfuckfuck.

Papyrus is mildly bewildered by Flowey suddenly mildly changing his rules upon Frisk falling into the Underground and taking the reset option from him. Maybe Papyrus tries to guide Flowry to a healthier mindset or get him to a therapist, and instead ends up in a whole load of trouble. Flowey is concerningly dpendent on him and they're both feeling the strain

Just...just imagine the possibilities, yaknow?

I just think "oh fuck, no consequences" has pretty great angst potential. At LEAST as much as "oh yeah, no consequences" has