#it is actually because of this exact fandom

[ladysherreeamore]

Nic and Luke are a couple of shit stirrers

They wanted us to believe they are "just friends"

after they heard us saying it's what we needed to hear to stop shipping them but it's too late for that, we've invested 8 months of countless breadcrumbs and some were far too obvious to think it was just a coincidence or that it was about anyone else.

Here are some of the breadcrumbs we can't get over:

-Nic has worn Lukes milk shirt (pretty intimate and shady for her to do if he was dating A

-Luke has posted a Spain dump that is 100% Nic coded

-Nic said "people want me to marry Luke" in her Times article instead of saying he's just her friend

-Luke did his entire People Nic coded including Mimicking Nicola's poses, color coordinating with her, and doing his this or that interview which was Nic coded and also mentions marriage just days from when Nic mentioned marriage

-Nic wearing her claddagh ring (which is Luke coded) in the position in the position of being in a relationship then switching it to her left hand in the position of being married

-Nic has a polaroid of her and Luke on her phone as if they were in a relationship, which would ve weird if either of them were dating other people

-Nic already called it a relationship twice when talking about Luke

-They both liked multiple post from people who were friends to lovers and married

-Luke only going online to post about Nic, like, or comment her post

-Nic including a Kate Spade box that was Luke coded

-Nic posting old photos (suspicious)

-Nic disappearing as soon as Luke came back from Rome

-They both disappeared for Christmas and NYE and the adjacents and friends were shown to be with other people.

-Nic showed herself at dinner at an Italian restaurant (what looked like a date for 2) on her birthday but didn't show the other person or tag them

This is when things started to look suspicious:

-Luke's mom commented on a distant relative's Facebook post convieniently asking about cyprus and Spain (both places connected to Luke and A) and his mom just happened to mention "my son Luke's gf is from Cyprus" like she doesn't know who Luke was 🙄 why did she wait days just to make this comment? Would she say gf instead of girlfriend?

- Deuxmoi posting pap pictures of Nic and Jake that were obviously old and staged

- In an interview, the man just so happened to say "People want you to get married" 🤨 So he didn't know you mentioned that in the Time article? The PR team didn't tell him not to mention that? Why those exact words? I think Nic wanted that question to be asked to try another way to get people off the ship she kept going all this time.

- Luke was away from the spotlight so long and when he finally appears he just happened to bring the one person that would stir some shit up in the fandom and play like he's actually dating her

-Luke didn't post Antonia to his grid and the only way he would somewhat post her to his grid was with a black screen with a black heart and a link to a tiktok (not assiciated with her at all) to Boss business page that had a video of them where she isn't even tagged in 😂🤣💀💀

-Nic just happened to have an audiobook that she supposedly didn't write while it relates to her life with Luke? Are we sure she didn't write it? She does have an english degree! Are we sure this isn't a biography? Why did she showcase this out of all of the audiobooks? Why was it released the day before Luke's birthday? If she wanted the shipping to stop, why agree to this book? She isn't helping her case 🤭

Mr. and Mrs. Shit Stirrer

They have been listening to what we say on our post and on the lives so if you don't want them to know something, don't share it publicly

Things they heard us mention and have done:

- Some have said"Nic and Jake might not be a couple because they aren't holding hands with interlocked fingers" then they started holding hands with interlocked fingers in the next pap photos

- We all said Nic has never said "Just friends" so she said it in her interview after almost 8 months 😂

- Lukola's said "Nic must be in Luke's interview with him because he keeps looking to his left" he looked to his left in a video during the boss event

- We said "Luke may not be dating Antonia because he looks miserable and they aren't acting like a couple" after he goes inside and is abke to look at his phone he started looking happier and acting like a couple while he knew the cameras were watching them

If Luke starts doing anything he wouldn't normally do after we've mentioned it online, i'll know it's because they were watching us 👀

I think some of us may have been too close to the truth or they wanted to distract us from something 🤔

whatever it is i'll play along until the truth comes out

[talxns]

Wait why do you say "reject modernity (dick under 10)" when he was 8 in his first appearance? Dick was meant to be a child at first. He gave younger comic book fans a character to see themselves in. Older dick is the more modern idea

Dick was not 8 in his first appearance. This is a very common fandom misconception.

Dick was not given a numerical age for YEARS. DC did not want to give him a concrete age because if years passed, why wouldn’t Robin be growing up? No, it’s better to leave it ambiguous, and that’s what they did for a long time.

What we knew for sure was that Dick was a Youth. He was a boy as opposed to a man, he was a student, he was a minor in the eyes of the state, he still needed a legal guardian, and he was depicted as being “compact” in size.

Dick Grayson, the character, is actually older than the term “teenager”.

So they described him with words like juvenile, boy, junior partner, adolescent, etc. It was left up to interpretation and speculation. Given that Bruce trusted Dick to drive the batmobile, pilot the batplane, perform surgery on him, etc, we can assume he’s older than an elementary school student. This makes Dick capable, reliable, a competent partner to Batman, without needing to be coddled. Easy to self-insert for a young boy reading these comics!

Modern retellings of Dick’s origin story, of which there are plenty, insist on giving him concrete ages, some saying 8, some saying 9, some saying 12, etc. The thing you have to remember is that no age can be the end all be all “correct” age. Batman media constantly contradicts and reboots itself. But the modern TREND is to skew extremely young.

I believe they do it to subtly enforce a father-son reading between Bruce and Dick and dissuade any kind of romantic reading between them that was popular through the 20th century. They also remove Dick’s competence, his maturity, and his status of being Bruce’s most intimate domestic relationship, and give all of that to Alfred instead.

Personally I don’t think Dick Grayson was supposed to depict a child under the age of 10 originally. He was way too competent. I also don’t think Bruce would let anyone under the age of like 13 actually go out and fight crime with him. There has to be SOME level of believability. But that’s just my own thoughts.

TL;DR: Dick being explicitly 8 years old when meeting Bruce is a modern story element. Traditional Batman did not give him an exact age (but tended to depict him as if he were a young teenager)

[olderthannetfic]

I wrote an Undertale fic as a gift for a friend and fucking hell, I'd forgotten how annoying that fandom is. "But in [fic name here] it says [thing here] about magic" "uh according to [fic here] Liron isn't a Jewish name so idk why you used it as one" "omg you used the same name another fic did for a human they're in the same universe I bet" "so which OC is Sans in love with? I can't tell (and apparently the fact he's not tagged in any ship didn't clue anyone in)" "UM ACTUALLY!!! that joke? that one liner? TOTALLY contradicted by this one specific line of dialogue from this one exact nameless NPC you can easily miss!! this is SO WRONG lmao skull emoji" "I'm a Republican but I'll put up with you calling this girl NB because I like your writing"

I hate this entire fandom and it's astounding to me that anyone puts up with them.

--

[eddiediazismyhusband]

Ok so how are we feeling about the Diaz parents

(Full disclosure I don’t like them. I mean you see your son and he tells you he was with the exact doppelgänger of his wife and you don’t stop and think: “Wait this actually might be a cry for help maybe we should stay here and help OUR SON and his son” )

oh i absolutely fucking despise them both as people and as characters

(get ready this is gonna be a long reply

for context, i have to talk about the bts of it all

the way the show handled the whole situation w gavin’s restricted filming schedule due to his family moving really pisses me off as a whole because like- he barely showed up in s7 anyway and no one questioned why we were getting fewer chris scenes bc we as a fandom understood that gavin is getting older and his family moved and thus that creates some scheduling conflicts; so the logical solution would be to just give him less screentime like may and harry as he gets older (even though yeah, it sucks but it’s better than the alternative we got)

but instead of just doing that, they chose to have eddie go off the deep end (and not even for a good reason because nothing about this plot has furthered his character in my honest opinion- 806 did absolutely nothing for him that wasn’t already done in previous arcs and it just felt like “oh we have to give eddie something after hyping him up all season” so they shoe-horned that arc in and it fell completely flat for me.) just to give them an excuse to send christopher away on screen rather than just giving him less screentime to work with gavin’s schedule.

but as far as the diaz parents of it all; it honestly ruins the quality of their characters within the story bc now they’be gone from bad parents who stick their noses into their son’s business a little too much and don’t understand him to now being complete comic book super villains who are hellbent on making their son miserable for their own gain and it’s like… for what reason?

bc before this happened, even though i think the diazes are awful parents, i do think they genuinely love their children (hell we even had that whole plot in s5 w eddie and ramon coming to a little bit of a reconciliation) but tim minear has been using this philosophy of “shock value and drama are more important in this show than the actual storytelling” so he just completely threw out the love that they do have for eddie to replace them with these evil heartless characatures of themselves looming over the narrative.

like i personally have a rocky relationship w my own mother- she’s a super conservative christian woman and im a socialist nonbinary gay person, but at the end of the day no matter how rocky pur relationship is she still loves me and would never do anything to intentionally harm me for her own benefit.

so yeah- i hated the diazes as parents before but they at least were decent characters in eddie’s story, but unfortunately s7/8 have just made me completely hate them even as characters bc tim and the writers have just ruined the dynamic they had going bc they would much rather infuse shock value and cheap, unearned drama into the show to grab people’s attention rather than take the time to create a meaningful story that would in and of itself provide sufficient room for drama within an actually enjoyable narrative.

overall… im super disappointed with how all the diazes have been written since 707… even eddie. it feels like they took a character who has so much potential for interesting storylines snd turned him into a narrative punching bag, snd have kinda turned him into a watered down version of who he used to be all in the sake of cheap tv show drama- and as an (obviously) eddie diaz stan, it disappoints me that my favorite character and his arc are being treated so poorly by the writers to the extent that a story and character dynamic i used to relate to so well has been destroyed in favor of hamming up the plot purely for shock factor purposes (if any of that made sense i’ll be shocked by im literally typing this w one eye open im so tired)

i’m sorry this may not be the exact kind of answer you were looking for but your ask hit me right while i was actually thinking about all of this and i just had to share my whole thought process lol 😭 thank you for the ask bestie <3

[chiisana-sukima]

Saw that you also wanted to be asked this and I’d love to here your thoughts too. Exact same ask: What’s your thoughts on the idea of Soulless Sam losing his inhibitions and so giving into his darkest desires, and sexually assaulting Dean (which is how the vampire turning scene is read). I often see this tied to the idea that because of the incestuous deal and Azazel’s blood, Sam’s tainted and has this inherent darkness, specifically playing around the idea Sam’s sexuality is dark and perverse, and he harbours these feelings towards Dean and desires to assault him but feels shame and guilt for it. But as Soulless Sam he doesn’t. This reading always felt a little weird and uncomfortable to me but I couldn’t put into words why

In terms of the canonicity component, I have nothing to add to what @aliusfrater said. In isolation, I do think it's fair to read that look in Live Free or Twihard as at least metaphorically sexual, but it's one camera shot with no dialogue doing an awful lot of work in 327 hours of television.

This reading always felt a little weird and uncomfortable to me but I couldn’t put into words why

This is the part I wanted to write about. It feels weird and uncomfortable because it's an especially volatile subcategory of rape fantasy presented using the structure and language of an academic argument.

I feel like I should disclaimer that rape fantasies are fine and normal (and among my personal faves) and that stories are meant to serve people, not vice versa, so I'm not complaining about either the content of these headcanons or their lack of support in the canon version of spn per se. What's frustrating is the way the meta format mixes together assertions of fact about the source material, assertions of fact about rl, and shit an OP made up out of thin air because they thought it was hot, and turns it all into an indiscriminate fact-y sounding stew.

No, actually. No he isn't and no it wouldn't.

Another part of the uncomfortable feeling, at least for me, is the way fandom does intimacy backwards. First we put our blorbos in Situations, then we talk about our favorite Situations and why we love them, then we talk about politics, and then if we really, really like each other, we might discuss the weather. And it's all done in public, often without direct communication.

Usually I love that for us, but sometimes it causes problems we don't have great protocols for solving. I feel super-uncomfortable scrolling past 'It makes a tragic kind of sense that a csa survivor would grow up to be a rapist' without adding 'speak for your own damn self', and I think that's entirely fair of me.

Butttt, I can also guess that an OP who looked at Sam having smoking hot consensual sex and thought 'looks like rape to me' probably has a reason. Maybe the reason is poor sex ed. Probably not.

(Another part of the problem: that 'probably not' was a lie for politeness' sake. I went to the OP's dash and I know they have a reason other than poor sex ed. But I'm not supposed to say that, or especially have guessed it beforehand, despite the fact that such experiences are incredibly common and isolating, and despite the fact that knowing that information makes the OP's error more sympathetic. Because we're supposed to be ashamed that we were victimized, and never speak of it again. So if I could be assed to follow social norms, we would now have two survivors of sexual violence arguing about sexual violence--though only indirectly with each other--and both pretending their only investment was detached academic concern for the sanctity of the canon of a stupid 2000s era ghost-hunting melodrama. Which we both probably like in large part for the exact reason we're not supposed to admit to. Nobody wins that fight but patriarchy).

And you know, ig the thing that's most murky, and therefore most uncomfortable of all for me personally, is how I feel about the fact that this is so obviously a Dean girl (gn) take about Sam. Idek why that's so clear or why I care. I actually really enjoy "soulless Sam, freed of his guilt and inhibitions, does evil sexual things to Dean" fics. One of my all-time favorite fics (Flying Weight by flesh) is in this genre and is even about the vampire bite in Twihard. And I can't always tell, nor do I ever even care, whether they're written by Sam fans or Dean fans. But the chances of a Sam girlie conceptualizing it all this specific way, with the Evil Desires from the csa/demon blood and the predatory (consensual) sex and all, and then writing it all down as a meta, idk man, it would just never happen. And I'm kinda icked out that a meta that posits Sam as a csa survivor also so clearly uses him as a cardboard prop.

And on the one hand, yeah, they're all barbie dolls and everything, so who cares. But on the other, I hope if I wanted to write a meta, for example, about Dean correctively raping Sam in the panic room as part of the demon blood cure, I would build a more careful frame around it. One where it was clear what aspects I thought were consistent with canon, what aspects I thought were plausible in a semi-analogous rl situation, and what ones I just thought were hot.

I was really mad at the OP of the post I took that screenshot up there from when I read the meta and I'm glad I managed to slow down enough to be way less of a douche about it than I initially wanted to be. Maybe this is still too much of a douche, idk. Anyway, ty nonny for giving me the opportunity to process it all.

[eisforeidolon]

//Hellers still going on about “Watching Over Me” being about Cass. Claiming Jensen confirmed it in a meet and greet. It’s funny they never have video proof beyond, “Misha said it”.//

I was at that M&G, well hellers have probably claimed he says this at every M&G, but I was at A M&G where an idiotic heller asked if Jensen had written a song about Castiel. Jensen laughed at the idea. The rest of the people present rolled their eyes so loud you could practically hear it. Heller took that as confirmation and ran. She also took JA avoiding answering because the show was still in progress if some stupid destiel related shit (I can’t rember the exact question anymore, thankfully) was going to happen in the Winchesters. She full on dominated the conversation, heard what she wanted to hear, ignored actual answers and common sense, and ran with it, telling everyone her lies as soon as the M&M&G was over. We also had to sign. NDA's, so she’s an untrustworthy little bitch who broke the rules immediately, aw well as a liar.

Thanks for the report of what happened (at least that time), anon!

The thing is, we know they're delusional liars. We've seen it even when they can be easily fact checked. These fuckwits have tried to lie about what's been said in main panels before, either by 100% making shit up or just trying to sell hilariously stupid misinterpretations and wild fantasized projections of the meaning they want to hear. (DestieI is real? Where is it real?! Totes just Jensen upset people can't see the obvious and telling them to look harder because it's everywhere!!!) These are panels with a large room full of mixed fans where there is almost always someone making a recording. And yet they lie and assert blatantly brainless reinterpretations as fact that obviously don't represent what was actually directly said.

Like, is it a desperation to have the attention from other hellers for the five metaphorical minutes before the videos come out? Do they delude themselves into thinking if they just build enough enthusiasm online for the lies, the actors will totes have to change their opinions because it's popular (since drowning in the heller bubble always makes them ignore the GA and the entire rest of fandom exist)? Do they figure if they get their bullshit out fast enough it will get added to the list of heller "proof" and they just don't care only other gullible hellers will buy it? They do genuinely seem to think if they just come up with a long enough list of batshit nonsense - no matter how blatantly false, specious, and outright absurd it all is to anyone not in the cult - the world will have to validate them!! Uh, no.

So yeah, it only picks up an extra degree of absurdity when they make uncheckable claims about what Jensen said in a supposed-to-be confidential M&G or other relatively private interaction. Like, I wasn't there, so I can't objectively know if your story of what happened in that M&G is true either. But unlike theirs? It actually lines up with every other public, recorded, verifiable reaction Jensen has ever had to the idea of that ship being canon or something he has interest in. The level of self-delusion to carry on as if that doesn't matter is just ...

[acourtofthought]

It does not matter who the original fanart is intended to be when it's clear Sarah pinned the fanart because of who it looks like in relation to her characters. The inspiration it gave her for her book. 99.9% of readers are going to look at that and think "Elain and Lucien!" and that is most likely what Sarah's thought process was as well. I'm guessing nobody (Sarah included) has ever gone, "wow, that looks like Elain and Lucien but I'm going to spend 20 minutes trying to search the internet to find out who it's actually supposed to be only to discover it's Thanatos and a made up FMC so I'll change my mind and pin it for E/riel even though "Thanatos" looks absolutely nothing like Azriel from the series and the only thing they have in common is death symbolism though you don't get that vibe from this picture at all". There is a reason zero E/riels have ever used this exact picture for E/riel and that is because, regardless of who the artist was originally drawing, the artwork is a dead ringer for Elain and Lucien and everyone in the ACOTAR fandom realizes that.

“The guy isn’t Lucien but Thanatos so it’s proof of Elriel”

….so we’re slow??

THIS IS A VISUAL OF LUCIEN.

The scar, the long hair, no wings???

Lucien.

Elriels when they try to turn obvious Gwynriel/Elucien material into proof of Elriel:

[goddessofroyalty]

Do you mind if I write and post some Star Wars mpreg fics based off of some of the Asks?

Of course you can!

I only ask that if you substantially base the fic on my ramblings that you acknowledge it in the authors note (doesn't need to be anything massive just a couple words is plenty)

[kaiserouo]

how do you know i like excalibur

[fromtheseventhhell]

Another reason that Stansas hate the idea of Arya and Dany being friends (outside of them wanting to demonize Dany) is that they've convinced themselves that Dany and Sansa are the only main female characters, so if a Stark sister is going to have a significant relationship with Dany it has to be Sansa. Arya being constantly downplayed and treated like an accessory to Sansa has generally led to the consensus that her relationship with Dany will be defined by whatever Sansa's relationship (positive or negative) with her is. That's why Arya is always being left out of the "we were robbed of [x] female character friendship" conversations and why theories about Dany/Arya getting along are treated as Sansa hate; Arya, as a character, is seen as secondary to Sansa by a lot of people

[valar-did-me-wrong]

Ohmygod these people just NEVER stop with this bullshit, do they?! There are so many good people, characters, art, fics, edits, memes & metas in this fandom and yet these people are stuck on this toxicity 🤦🏽‍♀️ I didn't know this kind of Hate Enthusiasts exist!

Also, LOVE how because my anon is off they come here & mention me on another's ask.. because they don't have the guts to come at me without hiding behind anonymity.. Too ashamed of your toxicity are you anon??

Thankyou @maul-of-shame for standing up and fighting against this shitty behaviour since day 1 🫶🏽 & also for your support and kind words 🫂

I'd like this anon & Anyone who thinks I was lying to know that, I don't like to give power to horrible vile things by providing them public attention, that's why I don't post hate anons.. it's a personal preference

And I don't like to carry around horrible racist garbage on my phone to ruin my day whenever I come across it. That's why my instinct was to remove it from sight the moment those anons started coming back to back (like someone had planned & typed them all out in advance to intimidate me)

Hence I deleted most of them on spot, switched my anon off & then went to post about it.

I am not from the west, this app is the first place I've ever encountered racism or even fandom bullying! I didn't even know that after getting harassed you need to carry around that vile garbage forever to justify yourself while the person who sent all that crap can go around freely doing the same shit with others and then find ways to discredit all their victims!

Also I can assure you I've seen OP post many many vile anons on their profile in the past few months... Similar to a lot of others in this fandom who've been getting hate from toxic anons and vague posts from Haladriels for months.. and a lot of people can even attest to all this actually! Because you see most people in this fandom actually look at other blogs with care and fondness unlike you anon, who go to other blogs only to spout nonsense and hate.

Which is why a lot of people have negative associations with Haladriel side of the fandom rn; it's not the ship or Sauron or villains or women or smut or whatever new imaginary reason you come up with, it's this exact toxic bullying behaviour hidden behind anons and buzzwords. This is the problem!

Because the ship has existed since S1 and noone here had any problem with it. I know because I was a part of this ship till early S2 & don't remember any negative experience.. And still there are so many shippers who are so sweet and caring (thankyou to all those who contacted me after the hate anons) but are getting tagged into this mess because of a small yet very loud agressive insane bunch!

And as for the Proof, let me dig.. I had sent the stupidest anon's SS to some friends before deleting (to show how stupid people are on the internet) they might resend if they have it still 🤦🏽‍♀️

Till then please grow the fuck up, stop this nonsense & stop bothering my dear mutuals if your problem is with me... come with your blogname out to chat if you're so sure of your stance being correct.

Why do you and valar-did-me-wrong never post the heinous, hateful haladriel anons you claim to have received? Whenever someone gets hate they usually post the anons as proof, but neither of you did that. Interesting.

Where do I even begin with this absolute masterpiece of a reach? Because truly, the acrobatics in your logic could put even the most seasoned Cirque du Soleil performer to shame.

First off— You, just like them, came as anon. Obviously. You think people who throw hate have the guts to stand by what they say? Please. They sit behind their little grey-faced anonymity, spitting bile, because deep down, they know their accusations wouldn’t hold up to even the lightest scrutiny. They fear feedback, backlash, and accountability, which is why they only ever send these messages from the safety of a faceless profile. The only thing “interesting” here is your apparent belief that cowardly hate only counts if it’s publicly aired for your personal entertainment.

And let’s talk about this absolute gem of a claim: that I never posted proof.

Bestie, the fact that you even typed that out tells me one thing—you haven’t read shit.

I have posted proof. I have responded to hateful asks. I have directly addressed this before, which means you either (a) didn’t bother looking, (b) did and ignored it because it didn’t fit your little narrative, or (c) are just here to stir the pot regardless of reality.

The fact that you’re automatically assuming that anyone speaking out about harassment must be lying because you haven’t personally seen enough spectacle for your liking. That says far more about you than it does about me. You really just jumped straight to “They must be making it up!” without even considering that maybe, just maybe, people don’t owe you a trauma display just to prove they were harassed. That’s not a gotcha moment—that’s just a really nasty take.

Like, do you ask people to livestream their trauma too? Should we submit a notarized affidavit of every slur, threat, and unhinged screed we get in our inbox? Or would you still move the goalposts and pretend it’s “not that bad” because facing the truth makes you uncomfortable? Because abusers love the fact that people like you exist. They thrive on this exact kind of dismissal, knowing people like you will swoop in and do their dirty work by demanding “proof” while ignoring the actual problem.

And let’s not pretend for a single second that you give a shit about fairness, because if you did, you’d be holding your own side accountable instead of crawling into my inbox with your weird little conspiracy theories but oh well-

Oh, and don’t think I didn’t clock what you were trying to do as well. Dragging Valar into this? Really?

@valar-did-me-wrong, is one of the kindest, most unproblematic people in this fandom. They have my love and support and for you to drag them into this, this is absolutely vile.

The fact you tried to drag them into this tells me everything I need to know about your intentions. This isn’t about “truth.” It’s not about “proof.” It’s about trying to discredit and dismiss people speaking up about harassment because it’s easier than acknowledging that maybe—just maybe—people in your own circles are the ones sending vile shit. And that? That’s pathetic.

You really thought you did something here, huh? Sat down, typed this whole thing out, and thought, "Wow, this is gonna expose them!" Bestie, all you did was expose yourself. The way you immediately assumed that because you haven’t personally seen the proof, it must not exist? The way you think people owe you a public parade of every nasty message they get just so you can decide if their harassment is real enough? That says way more about you than it does about me.

And let’s be real for a second—if I had flooded my blog with every single piece of hate I’ve received, you and people like you would be the first to turn around and say, “Oh, look at them playing the victim, making a spectacle of it, stirring drama!” You want to move the goalposts because your problem isn’t actually with whether or not this harassment happened. Your problem is with people you dislike daring to call it out.

And the funniest part? You came into my inbox as an anon to accuse me of lying about anon hate.

The sheer lack of self-awareness is honestly impressive. The irony is writing itself at this point. The call is literally coming from inside the house, babe.

At the end of the day, your little conspiracy theory is as embarrassing as it is transparent. If you need to contort reality this hard just to make yourself feel better about defending the people sending hate, that’s on you. But don’t expect me—or anyone else—to take you seriously.

Oh, and before you waddle off back to whatever echo chamber convinced you this was a good idea—next time, try coming up with a take that doesn’t make you look like a sentient Lembas crumb with trust issues. Your logic is as fragile as Denethor’s grip on reality, and frankly, I’ve had more stimulating debates with my toaster. Now go touch some grass, hydrate, and maybe, just maybe, develop a personality that isn’t built entirely on being insufferable. Stop embarassing yourself in my inbox, Gollum.

Toodles!!😊

[bleaksqueak]

Honestly, I'm really grateful that my brain isn't wired to jump from hyperfixation to hyperfixation. It has its own unique drawbacks, sure, but I've always found it really comforting that I know what to expect from myself.

[rohirric-hunter]

JRR Tolkien: This is my fantasy race that I invented

JRR Tolkien: They come of age at 33. I've made this a plot point

The fandom: Okay........ but......... obviously they're considered adults at 18-21.

JRR Tolkien: They come of age at 33. Hope this helps <3

The fandom: No, no, no, don't be silly. People become adults at 18-21

JRR Tolkien: In this fictional culture that I've invented people come of age at 33.

The fandom: Okay but clearly what you mean when you say that is something else. I don't know what you mean by it but obviously it's something other than coming of age. Something made up, probably. It's definitely not important.

JRR Tolkien: It's hugely important and I spend a whole chapter setting it up

The fandom: But an 18 year old is an adult, tho......

[cranberrymoons]

.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

And this isn't even the only case of canon doing this nonsense! The most similar example is Adrien doing the exact same thing with Lila, taking about the same amount of time to acknowledge that she was a problem and that his previous advice was bad. Marinette's kwagatama is another good example. Introduced in season two only to be forgotten until season five! That's nonsense pacing!

This is not a deep, nuanced show where every moment matters. A show where you have to watch closely to understand the plot. It is, in theory, a fun comedy for kids. In that context, it is not reasonable to expect the average viewer to remember things across multiple seasons without even a token reminder between the setup and the payoff. That's not even how serious shows work! Serious shows put in that multi-season stuff for the hardcore fans, but write the show so that the surface level stuff makes sense to the casual watcher. Miraculous isn't doing that. It only makes sense to those who can quote every episode and, even then, I use the word "sense" lightly. Just because I can put two and two together doesn't mean the plot actually functions on a technical level.

I watch Miraculous with my adult partner who is an extremely casual fan - meaning he has only seen each episode once and is totally divorced from the fandom - and he gets totally lost when this stuff comes up. The season five final was incredibly confusing for him because it had been years since we watched the specials and he - understandably - forgot who all the special-only characters were!

Even if you could argue that the average viewer should remember everything, that doesn't work here because canon will straight up ignore what it established in previous seasons, making it impossible for even a dedicated fan to know what matters (for a well-known example, see canon suddenly forgetting Lila's ongoing lies about Ladybug being her best friend). That's part of what makes Miraculous so aggravating. There's no way to guess what will matter and what canon introduced for a cheap cliffhanger. Will Adrien's kwagatama ever be used? I don't know! And the fact that I don't know is bad writing! Why would you introduce that right after you explained how they're used if Adrien wasn't going to immediately use it? That doesn't even fit his character! He's supposedly desperate to know more about the miraculous and yet I'm supposed to believe that he didn't care about this magical link to all the previous holders?

Sure, writers. Sure.

Whenever I think of Miraculous's attempts to do context, I think of Gravity Falls.

Gravity Falls was a great show, especially in how they did off-screen context and overarching plot.

SPOILER ALERT

When they did the reveal of Stanley and Stanford, Alex Hirsch used subtext to tease the truth. Ford's glasses, the different nameplate on his car, knowing Gideon wasn't a real psychic since he kept calling him Stanford instead of Stanley—they were all there, but these tiny hints, while are noticeable, generally didn't mean much until the big reveal.

But the fun thing was that the fans saw the subtext, and because of the mystery genre in Gravity Falls, it's almost like audience participation in putting together the clues.

Obviously, I'm not expecting Miraculous to do this. It's a whole other genre, a whole other storyline. But I feel like a distinct parallel that can be taken from it is mainly WHEN said subtext is subtext, and what's not.

One example I can think of is Despair Bear. Adrien told Chloé to fix her attitude otherwise they won't be friends. Relevant for the episode, fine.

BUT THEN

They ignore it for episodes on end until Queen Banana, where Adrien suddenly uses it as a bargaining chip. And when people complain, they act like Adrien's tried this whole time and Chloé's just mean.

Basically, what Miraculous did wrong that Gravity Falls did right was knowing when to call attention to something and when not to.

In Gravity Falls, they were careful with the Stanley-Stanford reveal hints; things like the nameplate and Gideon were small in the grand scheme of things and passed you by if you weren't paying attention. But then they remind you of the mystery surrounding Stan by using small but overt scenes to make you think about it.

However, in Miraculous, they didn't do that. Again, Despair Bear. Adrien threatens their friendship, Chloé gets her act together, blah blah blah. But the issue is, post-episode, it's never mentioned again until practically a whole season later, after which we're just supposed to believe Adrien tried.

When you call attention to scenes from prior episodes, usually through quoting, you're inviting extra scrutiny on how you do your context. However, there's nothing to call attention to! You have Despair Bear, then radio silence until Queen Banana, after which it's treated like the last straw when it was the only straw.

It feels sudden that Adrien cut off the relationship because it was sudden. There was no added context or reminder, like visual effort on Adrien's or Chloé's part to preserve their friendship, and because of that, the conflict in Queen Banana feels thrown out there at random.

When conflict is supposed to coincide with previous episodes but said conflict stretches far from the start of the issue to the actual fight, you need to pepper in reminders to people that this is an issue that will have relevance in the future. You can't just declare it as something, just because that's what YOU think happened. And who knows, maybe to you it did, but we're not in your head, so how are we supposed to know if you don't show it to us?

The audience is usually more eagle-eyed than you think, and if over 90% of the audience missed the context, that's not the audience's fault. It's the creator.

The issue is the same for the infamous wax scene. Discomfort aside, Adrien's attitude towards Marinette post-episode never changed. No lingering glances, no moments of confusion in his feelings, nothing. So when it hits that he apparently has feelings for Marinette, it comes out of the blue. Or the whole Marinette and Cat Noir switching their crushes, with Marinette now like Cat Noir and Cat Noir now liking Marinette. There's just not enough context to justifiably believe that it is what it is.

Sorry for how long it is. I was just thinking about Gravity Falls and one thought turned into another.

This is an excellent time to give one of my favorite pieces of writing advice: if you want to tell stories, then you should study how mysteries are told because most stories have an element of mystery to them.

The mystery genre is the literary equivalent of a puzzle because a good mystery is all about setup and payoff. If the ending of a mystery doesn't come with a feeling of, "oh, how did I miss that?" or "Yes, I knew it!" then you've probably told a bad mystery. But that rule isn't unique to mysteries. Anything with a twist or a reveal requires you to set up those things and, generally speaking, you want to set up these non-mystery twists and reveals the same way you set them up in mysteries. The big difference will be that people aren't aware of what the mystery is, so the clues won't play like clues the first time through.

If you look at Gravity Falls, you know right from the start that there's a mystery afoot because the series begins with the character Dipper discovering a mysterious journal marked with a six-fingered hand and the number three:

This means that everything in the story should be viewed with the knowledge that this journal exists. Viewers assume - correctly - that they are going to learn more and more about the journal as the story goes on. They can also make some logical guesses based on the things they learn. For example, later on, the story introduces a nearly identical journal marked with the number two. For some viewers, this was an "oh, shit!" moment. For others, it was a major win because they'd guessed that this reveal was coming. After all, why would you mark Dipper's journal with a three if it was the only one?

Let's compare this to Miraculous and how it handles things.

I would not call Miraculous a mystery, but - like many non-mystery stories - it has a mystery at its heart: what happened to Emilie Agreste? The answer comes with the reveal that Adrien, Felix, and Kagami are sentimonsters. But, for many viewers, that is not a satisfyingly reveal. They don't look back at the show and go, "Oh, that's why X happened in season one and Y happened in season two! It all make sense now!" Instead, they go, "Wait, how did Gabriel lose in Chat Blanc if Adrien has a remote control?" or "Wait, if Adrien is a sentimonster, then why didn't Chat Noir go nuts when he was cataclysmed in Miraculer? And what about Claw Noir in the Paris special? Why was he totally fine? Gabriel showed us that being transformed doesn't protect you from a cataclysm, so there's no reason why these two didn't act like other sentimonster here."

There are also lots of smaller-scale mysteries going on such as the fate of the eyeglass that Félix used to find Emilie in the season for final. Canon then let Adrien find the abandoned glass in the season four final, making everyone think it was going to be an important plot point in season five. No one knew how it was going to be used, but the hype was real! Hype that went no where because canon apparently forgot about Adrien finding the glass. Mid-season fine, it randomly shows up in Gabriel's possession, a twist so confusing that the wiki can't even figure out what happened here:

In "Pretension", Gabriel somehow finds it and gives it to Tomoe, who uses it to track Félix's scent during her akumatization after he kidnapped Kagami.

Nevermind how Gabriel found it, how did he even know it was Félix's??? Nothing about this makes sense.

This is what I mean when I say that you want to write non-mystery stories like mysteries. No matter the genre, you want your stories to make sense. For stories to make sense, you need to make use of various setup and payoff techniques like foreshadowing. You can also make use of distraction techniques like red herrings. Everything mystery writers use is on the table for other genres. The big difference between mysteries and non-mysteries is not the techniques used, but the timing of events and how the characters are played. In a mystery story, you start with a body on the floor. In a non-mystery, the body might not show up until the end, but the reason it's lying there still needs to make sense!

Similarly, your non-mystery characters may not be trying to solve anything, but you'll still need set things up so that they get the information they need to have in order to make the ending work without it feeling like said ending came out of nowhere. While season five of Miraculous sucked in most ways, it did this to a certain extent by at least taking the time to establish that the Emilie videos existed before bringing them into the final. They also took the time to setup Lila knowing that Gabriel was Monarch. Imagine how much worse the final would feel without those things.

This need to set things up goes beyond plot elements. It applies to character beats, too! Adrien and Chloé's relationship is a wonderful example of a relationship arc that needed to take some lessons from mystery novels. As you noted in the ask, Despair Bear setup the idea that Adrien would cut Chloé off if she kept hurting others:

Adrien:(sighs in disappointment) Chloé, how long have you and I been friends? Chloé: Since we were adorable little tots, Adrikins. (Pouts) Adrien:(disappointed) Well, I'm sorry Chloé, but I can't be friends with someone who treats other people like this. You've gotta be nice to people! Chloé: N-Nice? Adrien: Yes, nice. It's not that hard.

But this setup doesn't pay off until the end of Derision:

Adrien: I know about everything that you did to Marinette last year, Chloé. You're going to go and apologize to her and prove to everyone that you can change. I'm sure she'll forgive you. Chloé: (cackles) Forgive me? What do I care about her forgiveness? I couldn't care less about Dupain-Cheng's feelings! She and the likes of her only exist to suffer for my entertainment. Why bother having power if you can't use it against those who don't have any? You're the one who’s getting things wrong, with your baker girl! You're a prince! You belong with me, the princess! You're in this world to shine! To make fun of all the losers who are only good enough to be used as doormats!  Adrien: You're nothing like a princess, Chloé. I supported you. I gave you multiple chances to become a better person. Everyone reached out to you, including Ladybug and Cat Noir when they gave you the Miraculous of the Bee again. But all you ever think about is yourself. Chloé: And what else is there to think about? Losers and nobodies? The little bees? The planet? Adrien: (angrily) We will NEVER be friends again, Chloé. You and I are DONE. (walks away in anger)

And between those two episodes, the most we get is Chloé breaking up with Adrien in season four's Queen Banana after the two have a fight about her behavior:

Adrien: Hey, wait! Chloé:(turns around) Adrikins, it's sweet of you to want to console me, but I'm fine. I'm going to get my revenge and send Zoé back to New York. Adrien: Actually, I came to suggest that you apologize to everyone. Chloé:(vehemently) Are you ill?! They've ruined my film! Adrien: It was never your film, Chloé. It belonged to the group. You promised me you'd make an effort to stop being mean to everyone. I warned you that if you didn't, then we can no longer be friends. Chloé:(ends her friendship with Adrien) You're as ridiculous that film! It's over, you're no longer my Adrikins, you're Adrinothing! (Runs off to the limousine and cries inside.)

If you look at this like a mystery, it's a pretty awful one. The pacing is terrible and the events don't link together. When Queen Banana had Adrien call Chloé out for breaking her promise, I wasn't sure what he was talking about. The wiki links that line to Despair Bear and that makes sense to me in terms of what happened in Despair Bear, but if that's what he's talking about, then why did it take him two seasons remember his original threat? Why is Queen Banana his breaking point and not Miracle Queen, Zombizou, her theft of the bee, or any of the other awful things Chloé has done? Things that saw Adrien do and say nothing, making his claim that people reached out to her ring rather hollow. He let her get away with some pretty major crimes and only speaks up when she's mildly petty which isn't a great look for his character.

I've also seen several people confused by Derision's ending because they thought that Adrien and Chloé were already done, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to assume since Chloé cut Adrien off in Queen Banana and Adrien doesn't really talk to Chloé between Queen Banana and Derision. Two facts that really undermine his actions in Derision because why did he even bother talking to Chloé at that point? And why was Marinette's trauma the thing that made him finally reach out? It's especially weird when you remember that Adrien didn't get to watch the Derision flashback like we did. He just learned about one "prank" from Kim and went on the warpath. Not an overreaction given how bad the prank was, but a bit of an overreaction when you considered everything Chloé did that Adrien was happy to tolerate.

For this breakup to work and have weight, the show needed to have Adrien consistently reacting to Chloé's bad behavior. We need to see him actually trying and failing to push her to improve. We need to see him struggling between his new friends and his old friend. Those are the clues you use to tease Adrien cutting her off. The setup to the payoff of the breakup. We don't get those so Adrien and Chloé's relationship arc feels like a waste of time because they don't really have a relationship. You could have removed their "friendship" and the show would lose nothing. Just rewrite Despair Bear to give Chloé a different motivation and you're good to go.

[frankiebirds]

REID AND SEAVER GOING TO GET INDIAN FOOD TOGETHER AT THE END OF 6X24,,,,hear me out