#is this fandom hibernating until s4 comes out??

[lila-pitts-apologist]

Not to rise from the dead and post on here after months, but I wanted to touch on an aspect of the show that I feel is misunderstood by the fandom, especially in season 3.

I hate to bring it up at all, but I’m talking about Luther and Allison’s relationship(?). I know it’s a part of the series that most of us ignore or joke about, but in actuality it sheds light on how the siblings were raised, especially Allison, in a sadly realistic way.

While I obviously see Allison and Luther’s relationship as troublesome and unhealthy/weird, I don’t think I have the same ‘gawk in disgust’ reaction other people in the fandom seem to have when the complexity of the relationship is brought up.

This isn’t because I think incest (what I would label the relationship, even if it was more emotional than physical!) is acceptable, but because I think it makes total sense within the show, especially within the character dynamics of Allison and Luther.

Even though it’s a hard thing to bring up, sibling incest is more common than we think. It’s not always full-out or malicious, but it does occur way more often than most of us would assume. Specifically, it’s more likely to occur amongst siblings that are not properly socialized as youths, or ones who are full on isolated.

When we think of isolation we think of olden time families living on a farm cut off from any other societies, and I feel like that makes people underestimate how much the Hargreeves siblings were isolated from their peers and just other people.

I mean, we’ve seen Reginald’s parenting! The kids make their superhero debut at age 11, and by the way it’s described who knows if the kids ever even properly went outside before then. Growing up the Hargreeves had only the seven of them (6 if we account for Viktor’s separation).

All of the personal growth, all of the curiosity about the outside world, all of the teenage melancholia and growing pains, all of it has to occur within the bounds of the seven siblings because there’s literally no one else.

So of course this is going to make for oddly bonded children! Of course they’re going to blur the lines of what siblings should act like, because they know no objective standards! We see this in their competitiveness stemming from being pitted against each other, we see it in their ‘ride or die’ mindset even when they don’t like each other, and we see it in Allison and Luther.

I see the fandom spin it into Allison and Luther being freaks, especially as the other siblings find it odd as well. While I agree it’s weird, I think it’s unfair to paint it simply as ‘grown adults have a thing for their own sibling’ because we’re then ignoring their unique upbringing.

I mean, i find it hard to even treat the siblings as adults on an emotional level, because they were never truly allowed the development needed to grow into stable, mature adults.

You have one sibling who is reared to crave attention and validation, who didn’t see much kindness or empathy due to his envy-inducing status as Number 1. And you have another sibling who is purposely left devoid of proper morals, who is used to getting everything she wants and being wanted by everyone in the way she wants them to, by charm or by force.

Is it really hard to see what those siblings would find in each other, the validation that they surely would’ve found in non-relatives had they been allowed to grow up normally?

One of my favorite parts of TUA is that it’s not afraid to give us a fucked up family, exploring how such an unorthodox childhood allows for ugliness to rear its head in the craziest places. To me, the too-intimate bond of Allison and Luther isn’t something to just be written off as an awkward writing choice, it’s another very real and sad example of how the Hargreeves’ morals and minds were doomed from the start.

[lucidpantone]

Unfortunately they received hate anons. they even deactivated their main blog and im so sad because i really like they. People in this fandom really just waste their time throwing hate instead of doing smth productive, it's a shame.

First of all I thought everyone went into hibernation like the Berenstain Bears after the sobbe live until we come out again for the anniversary. Y’all why are people so pressed about what people do and dont like?!?!?! So some fans dont like smut, angst, au’s or whatever. Like why peeps so bothered and if you find those people being clinical of your fic well then its free publicity or just unfollow. For example I know some people dont like sobbe in a threesome which I get but if you head canon sobbe that way then its fine its all fiction anyways (ITS NOT REAL!). If some peeps want to head canon sobbe just being super into one another and being the thirsty little bunny rabbits they are then thats chill too. Its just a hot take on fictional characters. Jeeez some peeps need to relax. Its winter, druck is about to end and we are gonna go into a Skam drought again. Like let people live and let them head canon in peace. Also I am upset for the fandom because croisenne just pubbed a massive fic into ao3 and you know how much work that is...... its such a shame to lose someone that was so hyped to create content for the stans. People forget a ton of stans just lurk tumblr for content and don’t engage and it hurts the fandom all around especially for wtfock because everyone is hurting after s4. Anyways I am gonna go write croisenne an essay on their ao3 fic so maybe they consider coming back. Brb 🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️

[evakuality]

I’ve seen some discourse recently comparing the “intelligence” of Isak and Sana which made me very uncomfortable, especially with regard to the themes of racism in S4. Have you seen this and do you have any thoughts on it?

Wow, my first meta-ish ask after I get back and it’s a big one!  I actually hadn’t really seen what you’re talking about so I asked a friend and got some links.  So bear in mind that my responses are based on kind of a late-to-the-party reading of everything.  

First, I think the actual question about intelligence and study habits was really interesting, and the one comment about these two being mirrors is such a good point.  And that probably explains why this is the friendship I love the most in this show.  To digress a little, they’re shown as very similar throughout the show.  They both have a mask to hide how they really feel, they both put on a big show and a big persona and they have both done this since season one.  They also both really like being right and dislike when people point out that they aren’t quite ‘with it’ -- Sana can even specifically say she knows better than a textbook because she can’t stand being wrong.  So you’d think these two very similar, closed off, masked, unhappy people would clash badly.  And yet they don’t.  Of course, they don’t actually want to interact until they’re forced into it in s3, but when they do it works surprisingly well.  In part, of course, that’s because of their smarts.  They both acknowledge and respect each other’s brains all while constantly aggrandizing their own self.  They bicker and argue about the answers, and yet it seems like it’s actually their collective brains that bring them both up.  Without each other, I think Isak at least would slide into laziness, and Sana would go blithely on assuming she’s right.  Together, they discuss and challenge each other and that makes them both stronger.  In s3, Isak helps Sana stay on track and focused and she gains a 5 with his help.  In s4, when Sana tunes out and stops being the constant, connected study buddy, Isak slips.  Without her help, he isn’t getting those same grades he pulled the previous year.  He’s in a new home and he has all sorts of lovely new distractions and he just loses focus.  The point of all of this is to say that I think they’re very similar people.  They both withdraw and isolate themselves when they’re struggling, only Sana does it while she’s actually with people and Isak hibernates in his room.  Their way of approaching the world is so very similar, and their study habits are very similar.  So it’s not a surprise that they mesh so well.  

All that said, I don’t think there’s a different type of intelligence going on here.  I agree that they mirror each other.  They both need to study in order to achieve.  The reasons why they might stop studying or disconnect from each other are different, but the effect is the same.  In fact, in s4, Sana is struggling a LOT.  She’s dealing with racism, Islamophobia, heartache, jealousy, betrayal and so much more.  And yet, despite pulling away from her study partner, she still a) shows a healthy desire to be successful and b) manages to get a 6.  Isak, by contrast, is finally settled and happy and he only manages a 5.  It embarrasses him, he doesn’t want to admit to it, but that’s still the truth.  In some ways, maybe that’s a healthier space for him to be (happy, settled, more balanced in his life) and Sana maybe should get herself to that point again too.  Maybe the actual point of this is that clinging to those grades to the exclusion of all else when they are so unhappy and isolated isn’t a good thing.  Maybe being happy and getting a 5 is what we should be aiming for.  After all, each of them got a 5 when they were in a happier place than when they each got the 6s.  Mirrors.

So this, of course, brings us to the other things in this ask.  The themes of racism in s4 and how they apply to these two.  Personally, I think a lot of this ties back to the scene on the bench where Sana implicitly agrees with Isak’s assessment of her life by saying he’s like an imam.  That scene allows white people a nice, comfortable sense that it’s okay to use microaggressions (Sana covertly references these in her side of the conversation) because Isak says that people only use them to ask to be educated.  Many many people have talked about why this attitude is a problem, so I won’t really go into it again (except to say that I hate this conversation almost as much as I hate Sana’s blessing of gaslighting in s2).  The reason I bring it up is because it shows up a pattern that is present in a lot of our society: that a white person, and particularly a white man, has a better understanding of a situation than the people who actually live in and with that situation day by day.  Sana, as a PoC, and specifically a WoC has a unique insight into her world that a white boy can never have.  She is faced with sexism as well as racism and Islamophobia throughout her season. Her brother often reminds her that as a girl she’s judged and put down by society far more than he is, even though they face the same racism.  So for Isak to say she’s looking for hate is so weird to me.  The show explicitly tells us that she’s not looking for it; it’s right there!!  And the thing is, as a fandom, we often seem to look at that conversation and nod along with Isak.  Because from a certain point of view, that sounds really reasonable: yeah, it should be our responsibility to educate the ignorant.  It should be our responsibility to advocate for ourselves.  The problem is that it ignores microaggressions.  It ignores the fact that for a white person that dumb question happens once, but for the PoC it’s dozens of times every single day.  It’s forcing them to justify their existence every time we ask those questions.  It’s exhausting, and it’s shown in the show to be exhausting.  We’re literally shown it happening, and then.  Well.   The very thing Sana is shown to face throughout her whole season … that’s the thing that Isak says is all in her head, that she’s ‘looking for’ and so of course as a fandom we nod and go, yep that’s it.  Because he’s a boy and he’s framed as the one who’s got the answers.

And then we do exactly the same thing to Sana that the show does.  We push her down.  We suggest that her success is due to someone else (to a white boy, no less).  Or we suggest that she’s not naturally as smart as the white boy and that while he can flow through something with ease, that she must study all hours of the day to even come close to him.  We ignore that she’s been set up as his mirror, that he’s just as hard working as she is.  That without her help and input, he doesn’t necessarily succeed in the same way.  In short, we look at her and go ‘you’re not as good as a white person’ despite the fact that she’s been shown to be his equal throughout the show.  Don’t get me wrong.  I love Isak, but he’s filled with flaws.  I love Sana, too, and she’s also filled with flaws.  But in this particular way, I think they’re both very similar people and it is a little uncomfortable that they get treated in very different ways.

Of course, none of this is to say that we should avoid talking about and analysing PoC characters.  Quite the opposite; we should be giving them attention and really thinking about them.  But we should examine the ways in which we do that.  If we’re not considering the wider context of society, then we’re possibly doing these characters a disservice.  And I’m not a saint myself.  I know I’m often thoughtless about how I write Sana, and I don’t always consider the wider context when I add her to a fic.  I haven’t really ever analysed her before, and that’s something I should change.  And that’s all okay.  None of us is perfect, but we should try to be better and we should give these characters the credit they deserve.  And particularly when a character is a different race or religion or gender or sexuality than ourselves, we should maybe be a little careful in how we talk about them and represent them.  Because there is a wider context, and it’s not PoC’s (or Muslims’ or queer peoples’ or women’s) responsibility to make white people take it into consideration. It’s our responsibility to think about it and to try to do better.    

[trashy-greyjoy]

am i the only one who lost complete faith in bellarke the shows been om air for 4 years and the one final opportunity they had to kiss shouldve been right b4 they separated for 6 years they both were walking into their potential deaths and it just makes no sense how there wasnt at least a confession. then i remembered the writers are still pandering to antis who never shut up so it pretty much made me think that legit every small moment that has been given to us is bait for us to stay watching

2/2 you seem like one of the voice of reasons in the fandom and i just had to get it off my chest im just pretty sure the writers are baiting us all along for when they bring you know who back in the series finale or something its so sad bc we stuck around for so long and idk im pretty sure everyone has this feeling that bellarke will never happen so the antis will be happy. i wish theyd realize most of general audience prefers bellarke idk im just sad i wasted my time on this show for 4 yrs

Hello nonny! Not worry I am here to restore your faith in all things canon blarke and s5 is our time! I totally feel your pain, sometimes even I get in those ‘blarke is never gonna fuck what’s even the point’ moods, but i have some long ranting posts ill shoot your way so you have some things to think about and hopefully it'll raise your spirits! (also you saying I'm a voice of reason made me laugh because in all honesty I'm a huge emo mess )

About the kiss being in the s4 finale. at first I really thought it would happen too, since if they think they're gonna die they should confess and make out, except, they didn't think that, at least Bellamy didn't. He thought they were gonna have 5 years of the 2 of them stuck in space to figure it out and be together so he didn't feel the pressure to have to confess before they went up. Clarke probably didn't do anything because she was almost certain she was going to die and she probably didn't want to put all that on Bellamy if he was just going to lose her anyway. Thats especially easy to notice if you pay attention to the face caress scene where she seems light hearted and happy looking at him and then she remembers her mom’s vision. And if you recall there were two separate instances where one of them tried to either confess or say goodbye and the other wouldn't let them (Bellamy before clarke went to the island and Clarke before the head and heart convo). ALSO leaving the confession up in the air gives the opportunity for them to add a lot of conflict with bellamy not getting to tell her going into next season. So when you think about that, it makes a lot of sense for them not to have kissed in the finale.

About the writers pandering to a certain audience, I agree. they name dropped L at unnecessary and excessive points last season to pacify the antis as best as they could. I get it, I hated it, it hurt Clarke’s character, and it wasn’t needed, but like i get what they were trying to do, unsuccessfully. HOWEVER I don't think that'll be a problem going forward. The time jump allows time for Clarke to have grieved and moved on in the last 6 years. She’s not fresh off the loss of a loved one and she’s been able to come into herself and move on essentially. AND the writers have been active on Twitter, and talking about Bellarke for the first time since S2 which is a big deal. They’re out of their Post-L Hibernation and they feel safe, well at least safer, talking about Bellarke on social media, meaning they’ve moved on from trying to pacify the antis in that regard. I think we’re pretty much over seeing them directly pandering to the CL’s at this point. 

Running off of that there’s also the scripts that the writers release, which have so far been pretty Bellarke heavy with the “another piece of her soul on the line”, “kill another person who she loves”, every part of the finale scripts and Bellamy’s “heart screaming”. Like... they released a script canonically saying Clarke loves Bellamy (and in a romantic way since the only other person she loved that she killed in canon was Finn). They’re putting it out there.

There’s no way they’re going to bring L back. Jason said she’s dead and not coming back. ABC has said it. And she’s trying to stay as far away from this show and that character as possible right now, she’s moved on she’s not going to come back. 

As for baiting, yeah they stretch it out and a lot of people think 4 season is unrealistic, but I say time and time again, when you look at canon slow burns and how long they take, 4 seasons, not even full seasons let me remind you, is child’s play. Mulder and Scully took 7 seasons to kiss and almost the whole 9 seasons to be fully canon on the show. Stiles and Lydia took 6 seasons to be canon, Rick and Michonne took 4ish seasons to go canon (still more episodes than The 100′s current 58). Booth and Brennan, Fitz and Simmons, Harvey and Donna (I see you Ana), Ron and Hermione, they all took years and almost twice as long as Bellarke have. It’s how television works. It’s annoying and it’s unrealistic a lot of the times, but its a trope, it follows a pattern, it’s how television shows grab a certain type of viewers and and ensure that they can keep them for the run of the show. Because it’s widely believed by the tv industry that once the ‘will they won't they’ aspect is gone, viewers lose interest so they string it out as long as they think they can. Whether its true or not thats how it works. 

There are also two more major reasons I think, or rather I know, Bellarke are endgame. The 6 Year Separation, and the fact that That’s The Story Jason Is Writing. 

I have separate long posts for these on my blog so I’ll be brief and link those for further reading, but to start off, extended separations are romantic tropes. Being separated for years and thinking the other person is or could be dead is a tried and true romantic Hollywood trope. Almost every example of this in entertainment, be it tv, books, or film, has romantic connotations surrounding it. The entire post about it can be found right here, if you want the low down, which I suggest. I list off other examples and proof in it. 

Moving towards Jason writing romantic Bellarke, it’s what he’s doing. If you look back at all the pivotal ‘Bellarke’ scenes in the past, Jason or Aaron have written a good portion of those episodes. Jason, the show runner, and Aaron, the guy he was ready to have take over if his other show got picked up. That combined with how many times he’s said that this is ‘Clarke and Bellamy’s story’ and in the past (S1-2) how free he was when speaking about Bellarke on social media. It’s always been the plan. He just likes to pull a Chris Carter (show runner of The X-Files, and the OG JRoth) and try to drag it out and deny it as much as possible. Seriously look up some of the stuff CC has said about Mulder and Scully in the past and it fits the same pattern. You can find the full post right here, where I give quotes and explain everything further. 

Taking a turn for a second, you can also think about the fact that tv shows almost NEVER put their big endgame together until the end of the show is approaching, especially if it’s between the two series mains. They don’t give that to you early on, that’s why most bigger ships in tv are at least partially slow burn, they don’t put the big couples together in the first season or two.

And I guess to close out, you can think about the fact that S1 Bellamy is set up as a romantic interest for Clarke from the beginning. His character and their relationship follow the ‘enemy/bad boy isn't actually that bad and actually has a heart and realizes that when he meets the good girl that challenges him’ like come on my guys... they’re set up as a trope from episode 2 when he saves her, and then episode 3 when he stares at her killing Atom and he gets all soft and realizes she’s not who he thought she was. It even comes complete with the jealous canon love interest and the ‘we’ve been through a lot together”

Never mind, I have one more point. Look at the sizzle reel for next season. It’s set up to make Bellarke look romantic or at least intimately connected. I have another long post for that one right here. 

I hope that did the trick for reassuring you at least partially and now we can all stew in this hellatus for a few more months before this hell shit returns to us!