#informed speculation but I--as previously stated--was not involved in the fandom at the time

[revvethasmythh]

That Specific Take TM is part of what led me to stop watching critical role entirely. Wouldn’t go so far as calling myself a “stan” of Nott, but I adored her. And I adored her progression into being comfortable with being Veth. But it feels like people see what they want to see far more than they see the character that’s been portrayed… TLDR I sympathize entirely, it’s kind of miserable to know so many people dislike characters you find very compelling for how they are portrayed simply because they are misinterpreting that portrayal at a rather fundamental level!

I actually do not think a take like that stems from dislike! Misinterpretation, yes, but misinterpretation is not always connected to disliking a character. Like, as many insane and wrong takes I've seen about Orym that have popped up during c3, the OPs of those posts often do not necessarily dislike Orym (at least, so they say). They just have a particular perspective that is not, uh, correct if you actually engage with the textual evidence. I think re: this take in particular, it really does come from a sense of disappointment that the dynamic between Nott and Caleb didn't maintain course, that the Veth reveal did irrevocably alter the dynamic.

Which--okay, there's a lot going on with that, and I think people who were overly attached to the "dynamic" over the individual characters involved tend toward Caleb-specific fans (hence how he's the listless sad boi of the post, the queer neurodivergent guy, while Veth is cast as a flat perfectly happy straight neurotypical woman (that was painful even just to write, but that is what the post is positing), and ignorant of all of Caleb's sad boi feelings--which of those descriptions is going to be more relatable/sympathetic to your average tumblr user, you know?), and if you were to track fandom engagement with Nott as a character, I feel like you would find a significant drop-off of investment in her after the Veth reveal. Because she yelled at Caleb, she altered the dynamic, her story separated from his story, she moved away from him narratively, and when the focus was placed more fully on herself and her character details, I suspect a lot of people drifted away from her. Because Nott was Caleb's funny sidekick and qpr and loving mother all rolled into one, and it's just not the same if she is a married woman, a mother, with goals of her own that may--and do--cause her to shift away from her very tight relationship with Caleb. In the eyes of a lot of people, she was there to serve at the altar of the dynamic, and her role was to support Caleb. Breaking the dynamic is a cardinal sin--it's similar to the way some people react so weirdly to the Nein all splitting ways after the finale. There's that deep attachment to The Dynamic, the Found Family, that rifts and conflicts and alterations to the dynamic are distressing to people and they'll come up with similarly incorrect metas full of projections and act like they're canon as a reaction to that.

So, instead of "dislike", I think perhaps the better word to sub in there is "disinterest." If people cleave so strongly to the original representation of the dynamic, when alterations to it are made they are disinterested in letting themselves be invested in, think deeply about, and care for the new dynamics created, because they're too tethered to a thing that was already lost--OR never really existed the way they're imaging to begin with.

[remythologise]

I don't have twitter and I'm seeing posts but a lot of them involve knowing what I'm looking at...can you pls explain the latest spn/Jensen news, pretty please?

Sure! Explanation of the events of the past week (some of these dates might be relative to my timezone, apologies for any errors):

JUNE 24: News breaks that Jensen Ackles and Danneel Ackles’ production company has a prequel in the works focusing on John and Mary Winchester; entire fandom displeased

Fandom ire at the prequel focusing on John and Mary momentarily overshadows the fact that it seems like Jensen Ackles has the rights to Supernatural (!!!) and has ‘five shows in the works’ of which this is only the first

Showrunner is Destiel fan-favourite Robbie Thompson, responsible for such Absolute Banger Episodes as ‘Meta Fiction’ (see more here)

A lot of blowback from absolutely all sides of the fandom - BiBros et al mad that it focuses on Not The Brothers, Destiel fans mad it focuses on Not Resolving Destiel, everyone largely mad it focuses on John Winchester (widely regarded as abusive) and the ‘epic love story’ of John/Mary (canonically forced by cupid magic)

Various cast members including Misha Collins, Jim Beaver, Jake Abel, Ruth Connell and Julie McNiven reply to the article with comments indicating they’d like to be involved

Eric Kripke tweets that Jensen and Danneel are ‘the perfect people’ to take control of this story and Jared is ‘too busy Texas Rangering’ to be involved

JUNE 25: Jared Padalecki tweets about being left out of the loop on the prequel; absolute chaos ensues

See this ask reply for a list of tweets, events and reactions

I’ll also add that this gets large enough to get coverage on Vulture, Variety and other news sources

Robbie Thompson retweets his tweet from 2019 saying ‘I ❤️ you #SPNFamily’ in response to… everything

JUNE 26: A scramble for Jensen, Jared and Eric Kripke to do PR damage control on the Jared issue. Meanwhile, Misha Collins does his best impression of this scene from the Lion King to promote GISH

Eric later deletes all tweets about the issue, which is VERY funny. Man can’t handle the heat!

Very funny contrast between Jared’s ‘have a talk, as we often do’ and Jensen’s ‘miss these talks'

Jensen later changes his twitter header and bio from Supernatural/Dean Winchester to The Boys/Soldier Boys which IS somewhat unfortunate and perhaps deliberate break-up related timing

Jared tweets that he ‘doesn’t want anyone to receive hate or threats’ which is like… Jared YOU started this, YOU tweeted this to your millions of followers

JUNE 26: Jensen Ackles does further damage control by tweeting ‘Canon? we got you’ and linking to this article about what the show might hold, which points out the Problems of John Winchester

See article for further details but this implies Jensen actually does care a lot about doing right by the fans and the narrative canon

This, combined with the fact Robbie Thompson is running it, convinces most Destiel-side fans that the show Might Be Better Than Expected and one CW-approved stepping stone to greater things

BiBros are furious because article is written by ‘known Heller’ Natalie Fisher, who is friends with writers such as Meredith Glynn and Robert Berens

Meanwhile, Steve Yockey references the ‘Steve Yockey is dead?!?’ tumblr meme on twitter in a reply to Ruth Connell

JUNE 27: Gen Padalecki posts an instagram story which may or may not be shady commentary on Jensen Ackles

However, yesterday Danneel Ackles also promotes the Padalecki MLM product on HER instagram - can I just say I simply love the use of a) product promotion and b) instagram stories as tools of warfare and diplomacy

JUNE 28: Various scripts drop thanks to the team at tumblr’s spnscripthunt (go support and fund their efforts if you can!)

Notable changed content includes Castiel telling Dean to ‘parent’ Jack in 14.16 and Castiel texting emojis to Claire in 12.16 (possibly an in-script joke about Dean being attracted to a poodle?)

JUNE 29: News breaks that Chaos Machine Productions was started as ‘Free Will Entertainment LLC’

The name was apparently changed in October 2020 - was that as a result of the 15.19-15.20 filming? Or something else?

The idea that Jensen set up a company called ‘Free Will Entertainment’ to continue telling the story of Supernatural is honestly BONKERS. A lot to unpack here to do with the textual and metatextual narrative of Supernatural that I don’t have time to get into, since there’s about twenty wild implications that could be speculated from that name alone

Stock price on ‘Jackles’ Sexy Silence’, conspiracy that Jensen didn’t like the ending of Supernatural and was quietly plotting to take the narrative under his own control, to bring Dean back to life and possibly to canonise Destiel, reaches historic high

The fact does not go unnoticed that, through coincidence or not, Jensen and Danneel registered the company on a Thursday very close to September 18, the Lazarus Rising/Castiel Anniversary Date when Dean was saved from Hell

JUNE 30: Misha Collins makes a social media post with Castiel art for the last day of Pride Month

Twitter post liked by Robbie Thompson

On his instagram, Misha also puts music on the story of ‘Can’t Help Falling In Love With You’ a song made famous by Elvis and then subsequently Destiel AU Fanfic Twist and Shout

“The song was initially written from the perspective of a woman as “Can’t Help Falling in Love with Him”, which explains the first and third line ending on “in” and “sin” rather than words rhyming with “you” - Wikipedia knowledge obtained via @jurisffiction

Falling… sin… But we don’t have time to unpack all of that-

JUNE 30: 8.17 Goodbye Stranger script excerpt surfaces with Dean’s ‘I love you’ to Castiel

Fandom has long known that the ‘I need you’ was formerly an ‘I love you’ because Jensen believed Dean saying it in that moment to Castiel was out of character - but we did not have the script to prove specific changes

Additional ‘I forgive you’ not included in the episode - the original scene reads as very romantic, since this was Dean absolving Castiel for past crimes and telling him he loves him in the moments before death, as well as ‘I love you’ of course being what ‘broke the connection’ of Naomi’s control

Notably this episode written by Robbie Thompson, the very man Jensen and Danneel chose to helm their next project

JUNE 30: Misha Collins misses his blanky text

To cap all this off, Misha Collins texts fans a selfie of himself at ‘the spare room at Jensen’s apt in Vancouver’, saying he ‘misses his blanky’, implying he has spent many nights there

It has been an open secret that Misha basically shared Jensen’s apartment in Vancouver since around 2018 due to [redacted dubiously obtained information] but it’s never been publicly stated (to be clear, this does not imply anything other than friendship, as actors in Vancouver often share accommodation and Misha had previously couch-surfed at Jared and Jensen’s places)

Cockles shippers go wild. Does the ‘blanky’ refer to Jensen? Was there a reason to send this on the last day of pride month? Will this man ever shut up?

Hope that helps! May this wild carousel of News About A Show That Ended Eight Months Ago never end!

[msclaritea]

Upon the Clear Distinction Between Fandom and the Baker Street Irregulars

BY LYNDSAY FAYE

November 30, 2012

In light of the ever-expanding popularity of the Sherlock Holmes mysteries in conjunction with recent adaptations including the Warner Brothers films, the BBC series, and the CBS reimagining, it falls to me to discuss certain disturbing tendencies on the part of new devotees to refer to that venerable institution, the Baker Street Irregulars, as a “fandom” when it is actually a literary society. The youth of the Sherlockian world will be excused for making this dare I say elementary error, since the case for the distinction has not been hitherto laid out. Following the summation of this article, however, fans and traditional Sherlockians alike will have reached a much clearer understanding, and the unfortunate misnomer of referring to the present Irregulars as a “fandom” will doubtless cease and be swiftly forgotten.

(Note: for the purposes of this intellectual exercise, the possibility that the BSI may potentially be a storied and erudite literary society and a happily thriving fandom simultaneously will be ignored. This decision was made in light of the fact that a noun cannot be two things concurrently, the way the Empire State Building is not both a functioning office tower and a tourist destination, and the way Bill Clinton is not both a former president and a saxophone player. Arguments that the BSI is peopled by both cultured readers and by eager fans would only muddy the issue, and therefore will not be entertained here.)

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word fandom dates from 1903 and is defined simply as “the realm of avid enthusiasts.” Although undoubtedly a positive, even a flattering definition, already we can see that this is an inaccurate way of describing the Baker Street Irregulars, founded in January of 1934 by Doubleday editor Christopher Morley and later permanently established as the premier Sherlockian society by Edgar W. Smith. While the BSI was conceived as a group of congenial, clubbable men who admittedly shared an avid enthusiasm for the Great Detective, no mention whatsoever is made in the definition of fandom of a taste for adult beverages, and the drinking of toasts to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s characters, which is of such import to the group as to be codified in the BSI’s by-laws. As a matter of fact, the words “Sherlock Holmes” appear nowhere in this document, while the words “drunk,” “drink,” “round,” and “toast” occur six times in the brief record. Describing the BSI as a fandom is thus clearly a counterfactual practice, and should be treated as such.

Of note, because the dates could potentially lead to confusion, is the fact that the Irregulars were founded in 1934 in New York City, at very close to the identical time period when the science fiction fandom was forming convivial societies of ���avid enthusiasts” in order to discuss space travel, interplanetary colonization, their whip-smart literary contributions, and large-chested alien females. The Futurians, according to Frederik Pohl’s autobiography, were founded in 1934 in New York City; the Scienceers were founded in 1929 in New York City; the Los Angeles Fantasy Society was founded in 1934 in Los Angeles; and the National Fantasy Fan Federation was founded in 1941 in Boston. These societies in no way resembled the BSI, however, for their purpose was to discuss speculative, fictional adventures, while the BSI’s purpose (apart from toasting) was to discuss Sherlock Holmes. The Grand Game, as it’s called, a form of meta-scholarship, bears but scant resemblance to the doings of folk who pen Middle-Earth chronologies and dictionaries of the Klingon language. Those who suggest the BSI is a fandom will also note that, as a literary society, the BSI has always been peopled with thinkers and literary luminaries such as Isaac Asimov, while the Futurians boasted as one of their members Isaac Asimov, who was undoubtedly a different Isaac Asimov to the deservedly admired creative philosopher invested in the Irregulars.

One of the most self-evident differences between the Irregulars and those involved in fandom is the latter’s tendency to memorize an enormous amount of trivia regarding their specific preoccupations, be those preoccupations Battlestar Galactica or fiction featuring anthropomorphized dragons. A member of the Star Trek fandom, for instance, could readily inform an outsider that when Captain Picard was captured by the Cardassians, he insisted despite being cruelly tortured that the number of lights shown to him numbered four; such remarkable displays of knowledge are all too common among fandom enthusiasts. Invested members of the BSI could undoubtedly inform non-Sherlockians that Sherlock Holmes’s ancestors were country squires, that John Watson was an invalided member of the Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers, and that Holmes is on record as having possessed three dressing gowns (blue, purple, and mouse), but as these are matters of historical fact, knowledge of them is much more akin to familiarity with the Gettysburg Address. I say again: do not succumb to lazy terminology and misidentify the BSI as a fandom. The one is concerned with an exceedingly popular series of crime stories, and the other is concerned with pop culture.

The activities of fans vs. traditional Sherlockians are hugely divergent. While fans come together to discuss their favorite sci-fi stories, television shows, and films, Sherlockians confine their conversation (and toasts) exclusively to the sixty stories, referred to as the “canon.” No mention is made of adaptations of the Sherlock Holmes mysteries; indeed, it is safe to say that the BSI as a whole is unaware of such bastardizations of the original writings, if indeed such things as movies and television shows based on the works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle exist, which is doubtful. In addition, fandom engages in a pastime termed “cosplay,” defined by Wikipedia as “a type of performance art in which participants don costumes and accessories to represent a specific character or idea.” Such behavior would be anathema to a Baker Street Irregular, some of whom have been photographed dressing in Victorian garb and deerstalker hats.

Denizens of the fandom community fail to confine their “avid enthusiasm” to mere discussion of hobbits and tribbles; they also, as a group, have a marked tendency to collect memorabilia relevant to their favorite characters, spending precious funds in pursuit of items such as action figures and animation cells. A comic book collector would think absolutely nothing of paying triple digits for a prized mint-condition issue of Spider-Man, for example, while my copy of the 1892 issue of the Strand Magazine…no, strike that, I beg your pardon, the comparison is similar but ultimately misleading. Irregulars of my acquaintance have amassed collections of Sherlock Holmes art, Sherlock Holmes books, Sherlock Holmes knickknacks, Sherlock Holmes pins, Sherlock Holmes translations, Sherlock Holmes reference volumes, and Sherlock Holmes talismans such as magnifying glasses or pipes, but as these are clearly objets d’art, they find no equivalency within the realm of fandom.

It is of particular importance to note that fandom participants often write what is termed fanfiction, fictional works featuring their beloved characters in various situations of the fan’s own imagining, defined as “stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator.” Whenever a writer pens a story about a character created by another author, that tale falls under the umbrella of fanfiction, a practice that the Baker Street Irregulars would find both mystifying and vaguely distasteful. In fact, the mere concept of writing new stories starring characters not belonging to the author would strike dismay into the hearts of the BSI, who very often write and read pastiches featuring Sherlock Holmes and John Watson (a pastiche is defined as “a work of art, literature, film, music, or architecture that openly imitates the work of a previous artist”). As you have already recognized, no doubt, pastiche is entirely different from fanfiction, as fanfiction is specified as being penned by fans, and as I have argued previously, the Baker Street Irregulars are not fans but rather a literary society, and thus are categorically incapable of writing fanfiction. The notion that they could be both we have already dismissed as specious.

One must bear in mind as well the ironclad argument that the BSI was founded in the tradition of the great metropolitan men’s clubs of the 1930s, and thus bears no resemblance whatsoever to fandoms, which are largely concerned with grown men and women wearing tights. I find this line of reasoning particularly compelling, since it is common knowledge that once a group forms around a certain idea, it remains always the identical entity, indistinguishable in its modern incarnation from its origins, free from growth, change, or adaptation. Admittedly the BSI is no longer exclusively for men, but that is an admirable mark of progress and should be considered accordingly. Just as the company Apple Inc. sells small personal circuit boards hand-crafted by the artist Steve Wozniak (keyboard and screen not included), the BSI is emphatically not a fandom. And please stop referring to them by such blatantly fallacious terminology.

Lastly, a word upon the subject of respect for the gentleman who made our literary society possible, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. There are some who take mild offense to those who speak of the BSI as a fandom, but I am not of their number, though it is worth mentioning out of deference that Doyle would certainly be outraged by the term. So beloved a character was Sherlock Holmes to Doyle that he spoke of him always with the soft light of adoration in his eyes and a flush upon his cupid’s cheeks, joy suffusing his features whensoever the subject of his masterful sleuth was raised. Were Doyle to be reanimated and exposed to the neophytes who ignore all discrepancies and insist upon wrongly identifying the BSI as a fandom, his mighty love for his hero would so overwhelm him, and his fury at the misidentification swell into so vast a storm cloud of righteous rage, that he would probably decide to remain alive simply for the pure, unadulterated pleasure he derived from writing the Sherlock Holmes mysteries, and would deliver unto us sixty more cases. And lo, global warming would be reversed, and he would find a cure for herpes.

I trust that this article clears up any remaining confusion regarding the word fandom, and its woeful inexactitude when characterizing the Baker Street Irregulars. I likewise hope I have assured the reader the BSI cannot be both a respected literary society and a fandom, any more than Australia can be both a continent and an island. One earnestly hopes that this will settle the matter for good and all, and we can move on to other, better topics. In the meanwhile, I am going to don my deerstalker and write a story in which Sherlock Holmes fights the Cardassians, that being the sort of activity relevant to my interests. Thank you.

1. Am I wrong or is this a bit rude?

2. Why don’t we hear more stories about how Doyle actually loved Holmes? It’s as though people want the character to be remembered as hated.

Lyndsay Faye is the author of Dust and Shadow and The Gods of Gotham from Amy Einhorn Books/Putnam. She tweets @LyndsayFaye.

@elwinglyre @sarahthecoat @sussexbound @fellshish @artfulkindoforder @johnlockedness @ebaeschnbliah @tjlcisthenewsexy @madzither

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