#in fact: edward speed debacle

[therealvinelle]

omg I just stumbled across your blog—so impressive!! I have a lot of reading ahead of me

Knock yourself out!

[volterran-wine]

You’ve said it simply wouldn’t make sense for the Volturi not to have known about hybrids and worked hard to prevent even their own kind from hearing about them a few months back.

If they cared so much and actively played a part in spreading fake news about vampires to humans, then what were their reactions to dhampirs in fiction?

Couldn’t a vampire have picked up a book and gone “you know what, I really wonder if…”

• — 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐃𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐇𝐲𝐛𝐫𝐢𝐝𝐬

Well, I do believe there was a collective sigh heard through out the palazzo when this was discovered. Because Hybrids really should not be commonplace in the world we live in. However...

Most vampires are quite aware of their species limitations, women cannot get pregnant, they are essentially dead people walking; and it should not be possible for children to be created. It is not a farfetched thought in my opinion to assume most vampires simple accept it as a fact that they cannot physically have children. It is not in their nature to desire humans unless they are a mate, and then they usually wish to simply turn them as quickly as possible. 

They have accepted that the idea of a child is beyond them now, and that is it. This did of course change somewhat after The Renesmee Debacle, some vampires would certainly have wondered if they could father children for them and their mate to dote on... of course this would mean the death of an innocent human woman, or risk the life of a mate. 

With all that being said, I also believe that successful Hybrid pregnancies/births are rare. Because most vampires have no desire to control themselves around a human, that also means humans have a tendency to pass on during intimacy in the first place. And if they do end up pregnant, the baby would in theory claw itself out of its mothers stomach in most cases; not everyone has a Carlisle Cullen on speed dial. And if the child is born, I can imagine that the mother will be perplexed, go to a hospital, if her baby has not bit into her flesh that is, and then we will have a massive breach of the secret to deal with. Depending on where this mother is the child may just be abandoned as well, it is after all something quite unsettling to go through. In the case of a birth I would hope that the vampiric father would either steal the child or turn the mother as soon as possible.

The ramifications of a hybrid birth are unimaginable. You need someone like Johham who is the equivalent of a mad vampire scientist, or someone like Edward who is... quite unusual in his tastes in order for a successful hybrid pregnancy.

I honestly do not think The Volturi has had to deal with many hybrids simply because its such a dangerous situation for the mother and the child in the first place. But after the unfortunate event with The Cullens, I would believe they have to cover up more cases of pregnancies gone wrong these days.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

While we're on the subject what do you think would have happened if it was Carlisle who came back after Bella's cliff diving? Maybe he happened to be closer to Forks or Alice was in another country and called him to go check on her (or whatever it was she hoped to accomplish by going to Forks) Would he nope out after seeing Bella's alive or would he stick around, become concerned about her wellbeing?

The post anon is referencing, where Rosalie comes back instead of Alice, things get hilarious and awkward. Edward never attempts suicide in Volterra.

So, Why Didn't Carlisle Come Back?

He didn't know.

For plot convenient reasons, he and Esme were out of the house at the time, and it was Alice, Rosalie, Jasper, and Emmett by themselves.

Alice had her vision, heads down to Forks to see Bella's grave/catch the funeral, Rosalie decides to man up and tell Edward around the time that Alice reaches Forks.

(It probably takes her quite a few times to actually get a hold of Edward.)

I believe Carlisle is supposed to be absent from the time Alice gets the news until the Italy debacle is nearly over. He and Esme come back to everything on fire, Edward very likely to be executed for breaking the law in Volterra itself, and Edward having attempted suicide period.

By the time he gets there, it's known Bella's actually alive.

However, had he been home earlier, had he been there in the period where they thought Bella was in fact dead, I believe he would have travelled with Alice back to Forks.

Well, he would have tried to make the family come. This girl was important to Edward, important to their lives, of course they're showing up for the goddamn funeral.

Rosalie would throw a fit, Jasper would be an emotional wreck (likely feeling somehow complicit in all of this), Esme would be an emotional wreck for what this means for Edward, Emmett would be very awkward, and all in all Carlisle would wonder if, perhaps, he should have left the family at home.

Point being, Carlisle would absolutely have come back, but he probably would not have been alone.

But this is AU world, let's say he did.

Carlisle Returns Alone

His family is imploding, he leaves them behind, he'll tell them when the funeral is.

Alice doesn't come with him because Edward has to be told and Alice is the best one to do it. Alice really doesn't want to, but Carlisle insists, no, Edward has to know and best it comes from Alice who was her best friend.

And Rosalie, bless her heart, lacks the tact.

(Rosalie is mildly offended but agrees, probably best Alice does it).

So Carlisle returns alone, opens the door, "Oh, hello Bella."

Carlisle gets to awkwardly explain that, you see, Alice thought you had died. Neither he nor Bella have any explanation for this. Jake, meanwhile, wants Dr. Cullen out and is giving his "how dare you speech"

Unlike Rosalie, Carlisle sticks around and finds out the awful truth.

Bella is being hunted by vampires, the town of Forks is under siege by Victoria, and apparently the presence of vampires triggers the wolf transformation and so now half the Quileute tribe under the age of 18 is a shape shifter and it's all his family's fault.

Oh, and Bella did just attempt suicide, but isn't admitting it. She just likes jumping off cliffs now because, well, she might be hallucinating Edward? That's normal, right?

Carlisle goes to stand in a corner and breathe in a paper bag.

Carlisle goes into emergency mode.

He gives Bella the pep talk of a lifetime and explains why the family left and what they were trying to accomplish with this. He gets the not so good details of exactly how Edward broke up with her. He returns to breathing in a bag.

Then he gets the phone call.

Alice... may have fucked up.

Edward didn't take the news well, he's decided to kill himself in Volterra, and the only way to stop him is if Bella Swan shows up to stop him in person.

Carlisle speed dials Aro, Aro is delighted to hear from his old friend, except that the conversation is Carlisle's stressed screaming. Carlisle gives Aro the fast version: he's made a coven, his son is coming to ask for assisted suicide, he has a human girlfriend (yes, Carlisle knows, no he doesn't like it, THAT'S NOT THE POINT, ARO) Carlisle asks, for the love of god, stall Aro and Carlisle will be there as soon as he can (yes, with the human girlfriend).

Aro is delighted at the prospect of seeing Carlisle but also a little weirded out. Alright, Carlisle, he'll pretend to humor this Edward and stall him.

So, Aro does, and he does it with magnificence. The throne room is filled with incense, Aro is back in Myceenaen garb, and the only light is from candles. The ambiance is spectacular.

While the Volturi will not assist Edward's suicide, they will grant him a wish, should he pass through the Volturi's three trials. Only then will he be worthy of the highest and most ancient honors.

Edward eats this up. HE IS READY FOR HIS TRIALS.

The first is a trial of strength, he must wrestle Caius and win. Well, unfortunately, he loses. Aro tells Caius that he has to let Edward win, if he gets too frustrated, there's no telling what this kid will do. Caius refuses to lose to this punk.

Aro has to bribe him.

This continues up until Carlisle and Bella finally arrive.

Carlisle gets to witness the madness that is Aro and Edward playing chess in this room filled with incense and candles. Aro abruptly calls everything off and gives the three some privacy.

Carlisle has had the world's worst day and lays into Edward. Edward's processing Bella's alive, human, and that nothing is going his way. It's a giant mess.

Aro returns and goes, "So, onto the real trouble, Bella Swan is human."

Unfortunately, Alice isn't there with them, so Aro doesn't have his out. Aro concludes that Bella Swan will be turned in Italy, though she may leave afterwards with Carlisle and Edward.

As for this Victoria situation, well, Aro and associates will keep an eye on it.

Edward loses his shit. With Carlisle right there. Carlisle gets to witness Edward's Full Edward mental breakdown.

It's a disaster and the flight home from Volterra is the most awkward thing in the world.

However, because the law was enacted and Bella didn't return home human, Caius is much more appeased. He still doesn't like Carlisle, and certainly not Edward, but he's no longer concerned Aro lacks the will to enforce his own laws.

The plot of Eclipse and Breaking Dawn do not happen.

Bella and Edward likely do not end up together, as Edward is eaten alive by guilt at having been responsible for Bella now being a vampire. This makes Bella miserable, but such is life.

At least she's a Cullen now.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Okay, so, with all thats being discussed about speed and vampires muscles, I'm now thinking: what about fighting? While speed and strength surely help you in a fight, they're not everything. In fact, that are a lot of fighting moves based on using a opponents strength and tempo against them. There's also the fact that speed does not necessarily equals agility, and I think certain gifts would be very helpful as well (obviously). If I had to say, Jasper and Alice are the best fighters. I'd place Edward very low since a lot of it is muscle memory and I don't think he can read that. Emmet is promising, but I think he's way to rekkles and anyone with experience could take him down. What do you think? How would you rate the Cullens?

I feel I'm answering a dangerous question that could potentially revive the speed debacle...

Well, regardless, let's get to it. The Cullens in fighting order:

1) Jasper

Jasper has by far the most experience on the battlefield of any of the covens. Well, that's not even fair, none of the Cullens had experience before Eclipse. Jasper has far more experience than pick your vampire anywhere in the world.

Jasper lived and breathed war for nearly a century and he survived when the vast majority of those around him perished. To me, that's very telling, and easily places him as the best fighter in the coven.

The rest of the Cullens probably shouldn't even be placed on the same list as him in terms of fighting.

2) Carlisle

From here on out it gets harder to rank. However, we see Carlisle briefly fighting in Bree Tanner and he seems to be doing very well for himself out there in the battlefield. We also know that Carlisle's likely the fastest Cullen and one of the strongest. This puts him ahead of Rosalie.

Though, again, he's going to be presumably much worse than Jasper.

3) Rosalie

We don't see Rosalie in action, but she's level headed, does fight during Eclipse and there's no hint of trouble on her end, and she was in good physical condition when she died. This gives her the strength and speed she needs to likely be a fairly competent fighter.

4) Emmett

Emmett would rank higher, but as you point out, he's reckless and in love with his brute strength. The strength makes him a force to be reckoned with, but he's not one for any strategy, and I imagine against not newborn opponents he might have a far more difficult time.

5) Alice

I actually rank Alice pretty low. I think Alice, with her gift, primarily wins fights by avoiding them entirely. While she does see the future, she's smaller and weaker than the vast majority of vampires. More, her visions have to be processed and sometimes seem to cut off her awareness of her surroundings. This is not something she can rely on in a fight.

Yes, she spars with Jasper and does well, but that's sparring and it's Jasper fighting his wife. It's not the same thing as the battlefield.

I think Alice would survive most battles and fights but this is not so much because of her fighting ability but that she knows exactly when to retreat.

6) Esme

Esme gets put higher up the list than Edward because I suspect she's in better condition. She fights during the Eclipse battle and no one's too worried about her (well, in front of Bella).

I don't think Esme would really know what to do in a fight, I have a very hard time picturing it, but she likely is not horrifically terrible.

7) Edward

We see Edward fight Victoria. It's not good. More to the point, he's skinnier and weaker than most vampires (and yes, anon, slower) and his gift isn't actually going to get him much.

What Edward catches and doesn't catch with his gift is a bit up in the air but it seems to be... very strong thoughts. In Midnight Sun, Edward can't find out where Bella is in Port Angeles despite being in the rapists' heads. They know where they are, but he can't access that information, he only gets their current thoughts and desires and visual input.

Unless Edward's opponent's thinking, "And now I shall kick him in the shin", Edward's not going to catch that. And even if he does, there's no saying that there's anything he can do against it. Emmett arm wrestling Edward can think, "I am going to crush this guy's arm into a rock", Edward will hear it, and his arm will still get crushed into a rock.

8) Bella

Bella is turned an utterly emaciated woman with substantial blood loss. She will never be a fast or powerful vampire. More, while the venom seems to have made her far more graceful than she was, Bella has no fighting intuition.

Bella's great plan in a fight is to stab herself to distract the vampire.

I suspect Bella will be an awful physical fighter.

[therealvinelle]

if you don't want any more asks about the Speed Debacle please feel free to delete this but consider: Edward isn't the fastest, but none of the Cullens are faking anything. Edward outran Carlisle as a newborn and watched Carlisle outrun everyone else and went "I'm the fastest" every time someone in his family outruns him he ignores the fact that he was running full speed and thinks he was slowing down on purpose. Both him and Bella spend her time as a vampire thinking he's slowing down for her.

Beautiful, anon, absolutely beautiful, and a very valid contribution to the apparently-not-dead Edward Speed Debacle.

[therealvinelle]

Maybe I missed this at some point, but as part of the Edward Speed Debacle, how exactly is everyone keeping Edward from knowing that they're going slow when racing him and that he's not actually that fast, given that he can read their thoughts?

Ah, I suppose meta on Edward's gift isn't out yet.

Suffice to say, he's... well his confidence is undue.

Edward Cullen is easily blockable, we see as much over and over in the books. He catches only surface level thoughts, he can't even go into a person's subconscious. His mindreading is very limited.

Port Angeles is the best example to illustrate this.

In Midnight Sun, when Edward searched for Bella, he was eventually able to pick out the minds of the men about to hurt her. He saw the world through their eyes, a guest in their mind. However, he didn't know what they knew. These men were somewhere in Port Angeles, and they themselves would know their own location. Edward, however, was unable to know it through their minds, he had to wait for one of them to glance in passing at a street sign to find their location:

I scanned out from him, desperate for something that I could use.

(...)

One of them glanced down the street, nervous—he didn’t want to get caught harassing the girl—and gave me what I needed. I recognized the cross street he stared toward. (Midnight Sun, chapter Port Angeles)

These guys didn't even know they were blocking Edward, and they did it anyway. He couldn't get the information he wanted from them.

Of course, one can argue that it's a case of not thinking about elephants. Once you know there's a mindreader nearby and you definitely should not be thinking about elephants, you're gonna find yourself thinking about them. But, to that I'll raise the counter that the Cullens have perfected the art of blocking him. We see this during Bella and Edward's wedding preparations especially, Alice successfully keeps Edward in the dark about what she's got planned.

Thirdly, there's the fact that Edward mostly uses his gift to reinforce what he already believes. It's not even his gift, really, it's just how Edward relates to the world around him. He has certain set ideas, and if new information enters the equation he will either force it to make sense or... force it to make sense. He sees things a very particular way, and is confident enough to not doubt his interpretation of things.

(I am, of course, referring to how he views- well, everybody. But Rosalie, Carlisle, Jasper, Aro, and of course Bella, are particularly good examples of this. Edward has cast them all in a particular light, and now like a stage where you can't see the actor unless he's standing directly in the spotlight, Edward sees only what he believes to be there.)

What I'm saying is that even if one of the Cullens slipped up and thought something incriminating about speeds, Edward would dismiss it. And that's not just an Edward thing, really, it's common psychology - you have this thing you take for granted, a known fact, and you hear Rosalie grumble to herself that she had to slow down so you'd get dibs on the mountain lion, you'll wonder about that but you won't go "Ah, yes. My whole family has been engaged in a conspiracy to keep me thinking I'm the fastest for eighty years."

In summation, Edward is blockable, his gift gives him only a very limited scope of information, and he's very good at picking and choosing what he wants to hear.

But, really, I think all of this is worth getting into in a post of its own, so I think we'll cut musings about Edward's gift off right about here.

(Though for the record, this is why I ugly laugh at the thought of Aro ever needing Edward by his side. Edward is useless, while Aro is touching divinity. Edward would bring nothing to the table.)

[therealvinelle]

Edward jogging? *snort* lol. Like, people didn't do that back then. Born 06/20/1901. Died 9/18/1918. He was closer to 16 than 18. A privileged, doted upon, only child, music lessons, private school, mama's boy. My headcanon is they were Catholic and unable to have more children like good Catholics would. He also was grieving father, then mother, wracked with fever, probably delirious, and it's no wonder he's F-ed in the head. Not defending him. He was a Marvin Milktoast, but mama's little man.

People actually did work out at the time, governments especially pushed it during wartime. Be strong for your country! Though jogging wasn't really a thing, not unless you were an athlete, and even then not in the modern sense. More, if human Edward was anything like vampire Edward, it wouldn't occur to him that he needed to work out. Excuse you, he's in perfect shape!

(Before people ask - yes, I did google the history of exercise last night for the sake of the Edward speed debacle. Gotta be prepared for fact-wielding anons!)