#in conclusion Orikan is a cat ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ

[zalmoxis-the-great]

Lovely observations ! <3 Thank you @beril66!!!

But, allow me to bring the fact that GW's writing for the C'tan is all over the place.

The C'tan were made at the beginning of the universe, but GW is oscillating between them being just Star Vampires (they were attaching themselves to the stars and decreasing their lifespan) or the manifestations of the material realm itself (Codex 10e).

And they mention in Codex 9e, that breaking the C'tan (Yngir) broke the reality itself.

But, again, I might be at fault, since I lack the original sources, but in Imperial Armour Volume Twelve - The Fall of Orpheus (published by Forge world, there are zero chances I am getting my hands on that!) the Maynarkh Dynasty destroyed the Flayed C'tan with incredibly powerful weapons, and it DAMAGED CAUSALITY (!!! like, THE CONCEPT !!!! causality = the principle of or relationship between cause and effect. By the Silent King's nose hair, wtf !?) I see discussions on the forums that say the weapons did it, others say that the destruction of the C'tan did that, some joke that this caused the lack of thinking, and bad decision-making in the 40k universe.

Why I am really thinking that the divine spark is the best way to quantify the power levels of gods in Warhammer?

Well, because:

-The sheer numbers of Necrontyr that were alive at the moment of the biotransference "For all this, many billions of Necrons have already awoken and trillions more stir." In codex 8e (I don't have that one, but I will so buy it, I need to get the last white dwarf issue) they estimate around a thousand tomb worlds that are awakened, and that is just the "barest fraction" . A tomb world has around 2 billion Necrons in it. (From the Necron forums, what? they are so very, very good !) The sheer numbers of souls fits so well with the harvesting for divine sparks. And in the warhammer40k community, we pride ourselves with numbers. (Codex 9e and 5e)

-The fact that the C'tan can be broken into shards (Codex 10e) that together form a greater being, and the fact that the aeldari speculated their Laughing God convinced Tsara'noga the Outsider to start attacking their own brethren, and to consume then, fact that made him insane, because fragments of the consumed deities linger in his mind (using wiki for this one, codex 3e and 8e). I again speculate that he tried eating their divine spark ~₊˚⊹♡✧˖°. and might have, accidentally, consumed them fully. Live and learn, I guess?

I would like to point out that the ascended being Orikan is aware of the wheel of fate, but it is outside of it, judging it from a higher perspective. He firstly experiences melancholy, since now time is a malleable concept for him more than usual, he contemplates the times spent with his rival.

But, he is thinking ! "No matter, even the most formidable beings from his mortal days would be long dust before Orikan thought to dwell upon them again" (his troughs dwelled once on them).

Then he feels scorn, contempt for his race. Then hunger. (The trinity of my feelings if I don't get my early morning tea (ꈍᴗꈍ)♡ )

He indeed, lost the "mind" to understand language. But I am thinking that is because his Ascended form was too hot for his language processing centers to function, all that he was feeling before was coming from his engrams, the part of a Necrons that makes them, themselves! I personally believe that animism is a reality in the warhammer 40k universe. That objects too can possess spiritual essence, not related to the warp (but this is another subject and this is getting too long anyway), but it is because of the incompatibility of the C'tan with the warp, and that fact that they still ate the Necrontyr's souls (this is for another rant). I think that when he Ascended, all that was left were his memories, beliefs and emotions. Or maybe it was a mixture from the spirits in the aeldari gem with his personality? He felt melancholy when he thought about Trazyn because he really liked him, yet he didn't accept his advances, he felt scorn because his own people didn't listen to him as he tried to save them, he felt hunger because he deserved a little snack (just like me, fr fr).

In my (flawed) opinion, godhood might not be such a bad choice for Orikan.

I, unfortunately, know next to nothing about Elder Scrolls, but I hope to have the time to look into it, because it sounds hecking interesting ! I think he could grow into another god's spot, especially since one is actually dead-dead, and GW is trying to correct the silliness that was the bad decisions of the old 40k. Orikan will become the god of Sometimes-thinking-for-more-than-2-seconds-before-acting.

I admit I was wrong, yeah, Trazyn worshiping him sounds perfect, his first subject <3

C'mon, godhood doesn't sound so bad now (•ᴗ<˶)✧₊ ⊹

(thank you for asking, you are very nice, and kind, a-and, and, and it is horrible, and I hate it, and it's going terrible)

(˶╥︿╥)

(how's the thesis going ? 3D scaffolding sounds so cool! Tissue engineering is my only hope to convince someone to 3D print some scarab shaped chambers for my cells to regenerate in 👉👈 my cartilages shall be little tombs !)

About Orikan, Divinity, Divine Sparks and Speculations

C.W. Spoilers from TITD, T.W. mentions of death

A more technical aspect of Orikan's ascension can be explained in the D&D universe. There are a lot of real world religions that touch the subject of divinity, but I found a pretty satisfying explanation about reaching Godhood from role playing games, and by consulting forums online, as well as a well-made homebrew guide which clarified the information. I am sharing my understanding of what I read, as well as my own speculations.

In Dungeons and Dragons (the source I am using for this is The Extensive Guide to Godhood/ The Path to Godhood V1.2, which is homebrew, but the forums I consulted used the same concept from the 3.5E up to the 5E, and are very similar, but less organized), there are multiple methods to becoming a god, but all of them require the divine spark. A divine spark is what transforms a normal being into a divine entity. “To behold a divine spark, in the flesh, is akin to staring into a star”.  That is something that the divine has but mortals lack.

“If the soul is a flame, the divine spark is a star”. Depending on where you look, some will say that a few normal people are born with a bit of a divine spark in them, or that only a few special someones have some divine spark. But the facts are: it can be taken, gathered, accumulated, and after all that, if somehow, someone manages to absorb one, they get to go under Apotheotic Ascension, where “their bodies attempt to cope with the fluctuation of raw power inside of them, at the end of which their form will try it’s best to maintain that power without perishing”. That change is only the beginning of the transformation into godhood. Huh, that is an interesting and familiar concept. (Extensive Guide)

The issue is that many who dare try, fail to hold that power, those who succeed "will walk away with something more". In the book, Orikan didn’t explode nor die when absorbing the spark, therefor he succeeded his roll in absorbing it, otherwise, the only other outcome would have been complete and utter death and destruction of his being.

A way to acquire such a spark would be to simply slay a god and take their diviner spark(s) (dnd5e), other way would be to be worshiped by followers (“A deity’s divinity is measured by how much sparks they have”), another way mentioned in the guide is by harvesting the rare divinity of others within a week’s time, so pretty much mindless slaughter (the chaos gods growing fat with power from the divinity harvested by their worshipers), a less bloody way would be receiving it as a gift from another divinity, at the cost of theirs, them (the donor) growing weaker to birth a new god.

The eleven race, the equivalent of Aeldari, used Mythallas, magic items with a lot of power, that could manipulate the fabric of reality itself, drawing their energy from the weave (Dndbeyond 5E). Sometimes the essence of those Mythallas would contain the essence of the collection of hundreds or thousands of souls – that can form a divine spark. Sounds familiar? (Extensive Guide)

That is one way, the other way Orikan could get his divine spark is by using Mephet’ran.

We can assume that the Deceiver is a divine being, a star god. The more divine sparks you have, the greater the divine being you become, or are. Unfortunately for him, (the diviner) Orikan, cannibalized him at the end of the book. Since in the Warhammer universe, it is impossible to kill Star Gods without actually changing the natural order, since they are the embodiment of the laws of the universe, and killing them alternates the fabric of the reality, we can speculate he lost some of his divine ranking, by losing some of his divine sparks, consumed by the newly ascended god.

Based on the events in the book, I think Orikan has two divine sparks: one from the aeldari gem (which concentrated thousands of souls, and not any old regular souls, but aeldari souls, so long-lived and powerful), and another one from consuming the Deceiver.

Orikan right now seems to be a Quasi-deity, “he has enough divinity to be spectacularly powerful, but lacks worshipers, or power, has no clerics, no one to pray to him”. He is, I presume, an Ascended Being ( I liked how the Guide describes it, even if it is homebrew, “divinity being absorbed by him, able to walk among the material world unhindered, still bound by their “mortal shacks””).

So I think that Orikan might just become a deity of the Time Domain if he keeps on growing his powers, hopefully turning that divine spark into a fully fledge Godspark. (Extensive Guide)

~Z.

[beril66]

@zalmoxis-the-great awww you are the sweetest! I am DYING 😭😂 Its sooooo hard 😭😭

Please don't sell yourself short! I KNOW you can do it! Believe me if I managed it any human being on earth can! I believe in you mate!!! ❤️❤️❤️

Oh C'tan are ABSOLUTELY connected to the causality. Thats why when you kill kill them it breaks! I am just pointing out they are BOUND to them and can use them %110 efficiency but NOT made by them. Apperantly there IS a dfference physically speaking 😂😅. Physics is a very fascinating and scary study field. Thats what I meant. The best way to view them I think is they ARE energy vampires that NEED some physical medium to meaningfully interact with the universe and utilize their power (necrodermis. They become useless without it) who are deeply connected with causality. At least thats how I view them.

Take note as the moments pass he becomes less and less 'conscious' for lack of a better term and feeding becomes the only thing he care about. Thats why IF this is the only way Orikan can become a God It wouldn't be that good. It'd be like the majority of the Outer Gods of Cthulhu Mythos. Whats the point of ultimate powers when you are barely had a mind and cannot truly interact with universe at large. But if Orikan can stay Orikan as a god HELL YEAH! Trazyn will be his lover/priest!

Yeah I love that forum! Don't agree with everything in it completely because some stuff are a little too taken literally or whats pointed as amazing is relatively simple when you know what's happening. Reaper does amazing work though!

Necron numbers are a little wack honestly. Like Great Awakening should have happened at the end of TIATD sooo...did it? Whatever the case there are as much human as there are necrons. Quintillions. THATS a scary though.

Now you point an interesting question and connected with my assumption; does soul your own soul a requirement for true/sentient godhood?

I love how you are approaching the divinity in 40k btw! I LOVE DnD and never thought of it that way! Kudos! ❤️

OH MY GOD PLEASE LOOK INTO TES LORE I BEG YOU! IN FACT IF YOU'LL HAVE TIME I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE GAMES! (Just...start from Morrowind.) Hell it has an MMO (Elder Scrolls Online) and its the best thing that happened to TES lorewise since Skyrim and Legends! (Some people may disagree we ignore them 😅😂) We even have Chronomancy!!!!

I am hesitant to ask but how is the part 4 going? I don't want to pressure you by any means that all the time you need!!! Health first! Just curious 🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️

About Orikan, Divinity, Divine Sparks and Speculations

C.W. Spoilers from TITD, T.W. mentions of death

A more technical aspect of Orikan's ascension can be explained in the D&D universe. There are a lot of real world religions that touch the subject of divinity, but I found a pretty satisfying explanation about reaching Godhood from role playing games, and by consulting forums online, as well as a well-made homebrew guide which clarified the information. I am sharing my understanding of what I read, as well as my own speculations.

In Dungeons and Dragons (the source I am using for this is The Extensive Guide to Godhood/ The Path to Godhood V1.2, which is homebrew, but the forums I consulted used the same concept from the 3.5E up to the 5E, and are very similar, but less organized), there are multiple methods to becoming a god, but all of them require the divine spark. A divine spark is what transforms a normal being into a divine entity. “To behold a divine spark, in the flesh, is akin to staring into a star”.  That is something that the divine has but mortals lack.

“If the soul is a flame, the divine spark is a star”. Depending on where you look, some will say that a few normal people are born with a bit of a divine spark in them, or that only a few special someones have some divine spark. But the facts are: it can be taken, gathered, accumulated, and after all that, if somehow, someone manages to absorb one, they get to go under Apotheotic Ascension, where “their bodies attempt to cope with the fluctuation of raw power inside of them, at the end of which their form will try it’s best to maintain that power without perishing”. That change is only the beginning of the transformation into godhood. Huh, that is an interesting and familiar concept. (Extensive Guide)

The issue is that many who dare try, fail to hold that power, those who succeed "will walk away with something more". In the book, Orikan didn’t explode nor die when absorbing the spark, therefor he succeeded his roll in absorbing it, otherwise, the only other outcome would have been complete and utter death and destruction of his being.

A way to acquire such a spark would be to simply slay a god and take their diviner spark(s) (dnd5e), other way would be to be worshiped by followers (“A deity’s divinity is measured by how much sparks they have”), another way mentioned in the guide is by harvesting the rare divinity of others within a week’s time, so pretty much mindless slaughter (the chaos gods growing fat with power from the divinity harvested by their worshipers), a less bloody way would be receiving it as a gift from another divinity, at the cost of theirs, them (the donor) growing weaker to birth a new god.

The eleven race, the equivalent of Aeldari, used Mythallas, magic items with a lot of power, that could manipulate the fabric of reality itself, drawing their energy from the weave (Dndbeyond 5E). Sometimes the essence of those Mythallas would contain the essence of the collection of hundreds or thousands of souls – that can form a divine spark. Sounds familiar? (Extensive Guide)

That is one way, the other way Orikan could get his divine spark is by using Mephet’ran.

We can assume that the Deceiver is a divine being, a star god. The more divine sparks you have, the greater the divine being you become, or are. Unfortunately for him, (the diviner) Orikan, cannibalized him at the end of the book. Since in the Warhammer universe, it is impossible to kill Star Gods without actually changing the natural order, since they are the embodiment of the laws of the universe, and killing them alternates the fabric of the reality, we can speculate he lost some of his divine ranking, by losing some of his divine sparks, consumed by the newly ascended god.

Based on the events in the book, I think Orikan has two divine sparks: one from the aeldari gem (which concentrated thousands of souls, and not any old regular souls, but aeldari souls, so long-lived and powerful), and another one from consuming the Deceiver.

Orikan right now seems to be a Quasi-deity, “he has enough divinity to be spectacularly powerful, but lacks worshipers, or power, has no clerics, no one to pray to him”. He is, I presume, an Ascended Being ( I liked how the Guide describes it, even if it is homebrew, “divinity being absorbed by him, able to walk among the material world unhindered, still bound by their “mortal shacks””).

So I think that Orikan might just become a deity of the Time Domain if he keeps on growing his powers, hopefully turning that divine spark into a fully fledge Godspark. (Extensive Guide)

~Z.