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crystallinecardinal · 5 months ago

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So I was thinking about Starlo and Chujin

Hi. I love overanalysis. It’s in my blog title as “lore enthusiast.” Most of this probably means nothing and was unintentional, but I’m like an English teacher when it comes to media I like and am scrounging for canon content— I will see something that might have capital I Implications if you think about it hard enough, and I will shake you by the shoulders and go “WHAT DOES IT MEAAAN”

Which brings me to Starlo and Chujin and a thing I noticed while looking through the Spriter’s Resource for Starlo references. Long rant and UTY spoilers below the cut.

I should start off by saying that Starlo and Chujin are similar, in a way. Both of them are nerds, although for different things. Both are said to be caring. Both dedicated their lives to their work. Both wanted to help monsterkind. Both loved Ceroba. Both had secrets.

These similarities have not gone unnoticed, I’ve found— both by the fandom and the devs of UTY.

(Transcript:

Sword: “It does make sense that, like, Chujin and Starlo are kinda similar, and Ceroba, yknow…. She has a type, I guess.”)

So it’s not a secret these two are similar, and it’s probably intentional to make them parallel each other.

But from there, we get to the meat of this post:

These sprites.

This is where I dive into a lot of overanalysis— I’m giving that as a warning before I start. My point here though, is that these two sprites feel incredibly similar in a way where I speculate if it was intentional or not.

I’ll play devil’s advocate first, though. I’m an artist. I draw things, mostly characters and creatures. Sometimes you just have two pieces looking similar— not because you intended it that way, but because the blocking and composition was best that way.

For Starlo’s sprite, the answer feels simple. All of Starlo’s talk portraits are front facing, so this one doesn’t have a need to be any different. If it was, it may feel out of place amongst all the other sprites, especially because there isn’t a reason for him to have this sprite in particular face a different direction. He isn’t looking around, and isn’t averting his gaze. He’s being direct. The best way to convey that is with eye contact (or at least, implied eye contact) via a front facing sprite. Additionally, even if Starlo was averting his gaze, with how UT’s talk sprites work, there are better ways to convey that than changing the way his talk sprite faces.

Starlo’s character as himself also contributes to the way this sprite looks. It’s a direct contrast to the loud, boisterous North Star. This is the monster behind the persona— one who’s a lot less confident, one who thinks himself a ghost to the people around him. A “nobody farmer,” in his words. When trying to get this across, art-wise, the way Starlo’s talk sprites look as opposed to North Star’s talk sprites are a perfect fit! It’s in the subtle expressions versus animated expressions. This is even down to how Starlo’s glasses are drawn, not showing his eyes behind them, giving him a much more distant look.

As for Chujin’s sprite, the answer also feels fairly simple. The sprite pictured earlier was for his tapes, where it would make sense for most of his sprites to be front facing. He’s talking to the camera, it’s a video log. Being silhouetted also works here— it makes him more mysterious in a way.

That’s what I have to say if you look at it JUST from an art point. However, we like to be a little silly in this house (my blog), so I’m going to overanalyze the hell out of this.

So. The pose.

I’m probably going insane at this point. I’ve already explained the most likely reason for the poses being similar, and don’t get me wrong, that’s probably the main reason why. But also— note the eyes.

According to the Spriter’s Resource, Chujin’s sprites usually have his eyes visible from behind his goggles.

But.

There are exceptions.

I think the reason for this lies in the same reason we never see Starlo’s eyes behind his glasses after he takes the hat off. I explained this earlier when discussing the artistic reasoning behind these sprites— not seeing Starlo’s eyes makes him appear more distant, which highlights the part of his character that’s much less confident in himself. We go from seeing his eyes (or at least, the shape of them behind his glasses, this is a consistency with UTY sprites I can talk about later) to not at all.

This is what makes Chujin’s sprites so important to me.

We’re meant to like Chujin. At least, before we know the truth. We’re meant to think he was always a kindhearted man, a loving father and husband, and a good mentor. All the good things. It’s only as the game continues that you see the imperfections. By talking to Dina, you see he didn’t like the Wild East due to what it stood for, and you learn of the time he came into the saloon all disheveled, uncharacteristically asking for a drink, only mentioning he thought he “saw a ghost”. You learn in the Steamworks of his research, and how he wasn’t as good at robotics as he was made out to be.

That’s what makes Chujin flawed, though. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, none of these things will make a player dislike him. As said— we’re supposed to like Chujin. An opinion and a mysterious saloon visit isn’t the end of the world. We also grow to learn more and more about him, and he seems just like a kind man with a love for robotics (even if he struggled).

And then we learn of Ceroba’s plan. And we learn of something hidden in the abandoned Ketsukane Estate.

This is the first time in the Pacifist route that we actually SEE Chujin, first in a photo.

Note the eyes.

We see Chujin’s eyes behind his goggles here! Once again— this is likely for the reason mentioned before. We’ve only been told mostly good things about Chujin so far! Here’s a photo of him and his family— how could this kind man be wrapped in anything suspicious?

Which then makes the sudden change in the tapes crucial.

We can no longer see his eyes— he’s grown distant, mysterious. This is the part of Chujin that he kept secret from even Ceroba, up until he was on his deathbed. It’s the part of him that isn’t necessarily the loving husband and father we know him as, but rather, this is the part of him that was a determined researcher on a mission. And therefore, Chujin goes from lively to cold.

I’m sure that last bit doesn’t ring any alarm bells at all.

Hey! Remember how I said Starlo and Chujin are similar in ways? This is where I get into that. I’m applauding you from behind my screen if you’re still reading.

I’m now going to talk about Starlo and Chujin as characters, as well as the parallels between the two sprites that started this analysis. For simplicity, I’ll break these into sections. Funky names for a funky reading experience, so I’m not just word dumping at you.

1) Got a secret, can you keep it?

Soooo. Chujin and Starlo’s secrets.

One of the first things that rings alarm bells for me is the situation in which both of the sprites I’m analyzing pop up in. Context is key. Specifically, both of the sprites are used when we’re learning the truth about each character.

For Starlo, we’re learning about who he really is, the monster behind the persona. He takes his hat off, reveals the monster underneath, and we get his new talk sprite. He’s finally stopping, for a second— taking a moment to break the act he’s been playing for YEARS. And he does it all to show Ceroba he’s still there underneath it all, as well as reveal to Clover who he really is. He’s at his most vulnerable state, revealing how he sees himself as a nobody, and a fraud.

For Chujin, we’re learning part of the truth of who he was, when he’s at his most morally dubious. We learn of his experiments, the ones he worked on and hid from his family until he was about to die— only then did he tell Ceroba. We also learn of his views and opinions, the reasoning behind them, and how he lied about his job at the Steamworks. He couldn’t bring himself to tell Ceroba he was fired, because he didn’t want her to think less of him.

So, the main points of this:

Starlo and Chujin both had their own secrets

Both of their secrets are revealed when these sprites are used

Both secrets reveal more about the characters’ identities

Both want to be seen in a good light

The main difference, I think, other than what the secrets entail themselves, are what they mean for each character.

2) Light and dark symbolism?? In MY overanalysis??? It’s more likely than you think

Chujin and Starlo’s secrets both weigh on them. Starlo doesn’t want to break character— he enjoys being North Star and wants to bring a smile to the faces of monsterkind. Chujin doesn’t want Ceroba to think any lesser of him for his mistakes.

Additionally, the reveal of their secrets marks two different things for their characters. For Starlo, it’s a step forward. For Chujin, it’s spiraling down.

This gets really fun considering these two sprites, and light and dark symbolism (not in the traditional good versus evil way).

Starlo’s in the light. He’s showing himself, he’s maturing. He’s being incredibly vulnerable for probably the first time in a LONG time, and finally breaking the persona. He’s working towards a better goal, accepting both North Star and Starlo as facets of himself, but it starts with taking off the hat. It starts with coming into the light, and letting the shadows fade away.

Chujin is silhouetted in darkness. As said previously, we only ever hear mostly good things about Chujin from those who were around him (barring Starlo, although that’s secondhand information, and by some extent, Dina). Martlet and Ceroba saw the best in him, a mentor and loving husband respectively. But as he rambles off to his tapes, shrouded in shadow and secrecy, we learn of what was happening behind the scenes: he reveals part of who he really was, and how much he hid away from those he loved, all away from the rose colored glasses.

3) “Your opinion is wrong” -Chujin, probably

To just point out more ways Chujin and Starlo parallel yet also contrast one another (which I will mention for the section after this as well): I think it goes without saying that Starlo and Chujin have opposite worldviews when it comes to humans.

Chujin believes the worst in humans, primarily due to the Snowdin Attack. He hates them— The War was when the blade was plunged into monsterkind’s flesh, and the Snowdin Attack was only a twist of the knife.

Starlo admires humans, maybe a bit too much for some monsters. He loves their stories, loves the idea of cowboys and Westerns, so much so he creates the Wild East with his posse.

This is what makes these two different, only strengthening the light/dark contrast. The ideas of hate and admiration fit well into that theme, don’t they?

Stick with me here. I promise this is going somewhere.

4) “Monsterkind’s Hero is a title soaked in blood.”

So, the aforementioned views of humans? This gets really fun when you apply it to the crux of Starlo and Chujin’s missions: to help monsterkind during their time underground.

Both want to be heroes, in a way. They both want to help. Of course, this is in different ways— but the main intention behind it is the same.

Chujin, as said, hates humans. He wants monsters to be brought to justice. After the Snowdin Attack, he decides that if he can’t help through Axis, then he’ll help another way. Thus starts Chujin’s dedication to his experiments, which he makes his work and eventually the rest of his life. All of it for a chance to help monsterkind when the time comes.

Starlo’s dedication to the Wild East is similar, in a way, yet directly contrasts Chujin. His admiration for humans and Westerns goes to the point he wants to provide monsterkind with their own “slice of the Surface.” He wants to see those around him smile— his own way of helping monsterkind when they’re still stuck underground.

My point here is that while they find different ways to accomplish their missions (and you can drag more light/dark symbolism out of this— Chujin hidden away in the shadows of the basement in the Ketsukane Estate versus Starlo out in the spotlight), both have so much dedication to it that it becomes their lives.

Chujin, although having a family he loved and cared for, let his experiments drive him onwards to the point it cost him his life. Starlo willingly gave up who he was to be North Star, letting the Wild East become his life.

5) Yes, and?

I could go on and on about more similarities and differences between Starlo and Chujin, but I feel like I’ve brought up what I need to for now.

Why bring all of this up in the first place, though? What’s the point of going on about these characters’ missions, or their secrets, or all the light and dark symbolism you could hypothetically draw from it?

Let me talk about those sprites again.

I’ve spent ages going on about Starlo and Chujin, and how they parallel, yet contrast each other. They’re foils, in a way. These similarities and differences are what make these two little sprites so interesting to me.

You could say it’s all because that’s what the scene needed at the time, and that statement likely has truth to it. I already talked about how. But the knowledge of the context of the scenes and these two characters is what makes me wonder if it all was done on purpose.

Chujin, shrouded in shadow, revealing a part of him kept secret from even those he loved most. His reasoning for his hatred for humans comes on full display, and he begins to formulate a mission, the same one his life would eventually fall to. If the royals won’t see how much he cares for monsterkind, he’ll show it himself.

Starlo, left in the Swealterstone’s light, revealing a part of him the Wild East knows nothing of. His mission starts to redefine itself, and it’s original intent becomes more clear. He only ever wanted to be someone. He only ever wanted to help. Maybe now, with the hat off, he can learn to make others happy, but not forget himself in the process.

A conclusion:

So. Do I think that these two sprites for Starlo and Chujin were intentionally made to parallel yet also contrast each other?

My answer is a big fat Maybe. I can’t be entirely sure.

Truth is, I’m not a UTY dev. I literally only discovered and got into this game a little over a month ago. I don’t know the true intent behind the spritework, I don’t know the conversations that happened behind the scenes. I am literally just A Guy ranting on the internet about a silly little fangame that I have brainrot over.

But! I do have a finalized game and commentary I can analyze, and knowing that some spritework details were intentional (the way that Chujin’s talk sprites face are made to match Ceroba and Kanako’s), I could see something like this being either intentional or a really fun coincidence. The type of thing the devs can look back on and realize “oh! That’s funny how I accidentally made that parallel. I didn’t mean to do that, but it works.”

I can only hope it was intentional. Chujin and Starlo are both incredibly interesting characters to me, especially in how they can be seen as foils. Something as minor as this I think just shows the love put into this game and these characters. UTY is just a great game overall, in my opinion.

But yeah! That’s my ramble, all because I was doing sprite studies and looking for references in the Spriter’s Resource for art. Hopefully I made at least some sense :)

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carlyraejepsans · 2 years ago

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Sans marries Toriel and is technically Flowey's dad is one thing, I'm more fascinated in the potential of a neutral ending where Sans marries Toriel and is technically king

nonono you jest, but in a scenario where sans would be interested in a romantic relationship with toriel, i actually think toriel returning to her role as queen would make him take a step back.

i always got this sense of... distance? when hearing him talk about her in the phonecalls for that ending (at least, compared to the way he talks about her post pacifist, in the Q&A and alarm clock dialogue).

and while I'm sure they remain friends and that the political structure in ut is nowhere as big of a deal as the one we have in real life, well... she's still the queen, y'know? like you said, getting romantically involved gets you Involved involved. and sans is the kinda guy who likes to stay low.

on the other hand, i don't think toriel wants to rule the underground again. she feels a duty towards it, and she definitely handles it better than asgore (administratively, but also emotionally, considering she successfully overturns the "all humans must be killed" rule, so it wouldn't be as much of a burden on her shoulders), but i still think her actual desire to rule died, just as asgore's did, along with their children.

and the reason i have a visceral HATE when people treat toriel like sans' mother figure is because sans is the first genuine connection she makes with another person in hundreds, maybe thousands of years, where she is at eye level with them. she's spent god knows how long in self imposed isolation, and the RUINs monsters are still too intimidated by her to be her friends. sans' friendship with her as equals was so crucial in her first true steps to recovery.

so to finally end her exile, return to the outside world, pick up her crown again (which she doesn't truly want, but she will bear it for the greater good) but hey, amidst all this chaotic change at least she can finally meet her mysterious friend face to face...

only for him to put that distance between them himself. step back, tilt the scales, force her up that higher spot she thought she'd stepped down from the first time he said "knock knock"...

well. i just think it would be a phenomenal source of conflict for an angst fic set in this ending :]

#answered asks #undertale #sans #toriel #soriel #hcs #metanalysis

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invertedfate · 10 months ago

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Welp, id like to think at how canon can undertale yellow be towards if, and its honestly, rather plausible?

The events of undertale yellow takes place because of floweys action, which we know wouldnt happen since flowey woken up recently. So clover wouldve taken the normal og undertale route, learned about the fate of the humans, and probably be as aggressive as he was towards monsters like he was to Asgore.

The hard question is how scientific elements like the Steamworks and Axis would take place in IFs world, since a lot of science stuff in IF canon relates to Gaster, Sans and Undyne.

I think it would be a nice approach, at least to marvel at the concepts, what do you think?

The thing is, the yellow souled human is someone else entirely, who fell many, many decades before the DT experiments even happened. Clover in UTY fell only a year before UT, which already doesn't mesh with how IF interprets UT even in the old timeline. There are a lot of other places where they just don't gel, though. Steamworks wouldn't exist, and Chujin wouldn't be a boss monster because IF treats Boss Monsters strictly as the species the Dreemurrs are. This means that even if he existed, he and Kanako would just be ordinary monsters. A big problem, I think, is that IF runs on the assumption that no qualified adults stepped up during the brief window where Sans insisted he pick up where Gaster left off. If someone like Chujin existed, it begs the question of why he wasn't appointed to a scientific position with Toriel worrying about these young people (e.g. Sans and Undyne) taking on so much responsibility. In IF, they took those positions because they showed skills that were extremely uncommon in the Underground. Sans knew Gaster's work, which he only shared with the Mage otherwise (and the Mage was dead), so he was able to use that as leverage, whereas Undyne by the point she got appointed was legally an adult and built the holosky. So you kinda gotta ask, "Why wouldn't Chujin be appointed in at least an assisting capacity?" While it's not unreasonable for places like the Dunes and Honeydew Resort to exist, other aspects of UTY like the war only being decades ago rather than centuries and the super compressed timeline make it really hard to reconcile in the world of IF. Ultimately, I just don't think UTY and Inverted Fate really mesh together because even in IF's old timeline, the way I interpret the UT lore just doesn't mesh with how UTY interprets it. That's not a knock on Undertale Yellow, but more a demonstration of how it doesn't really fit as a universal prequel.

#asks #lore #fallen humans #undertale yellow

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orbital-inclination · 7 months ago

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What does Molten think of the Classic Undertale? Its story and alll the characters, I wonder if he sees himself as Sans and his brother as Papyrus or the opposite.

How Molt and Rem understand the Multiverse and all its branching iterations can explained by using a tree. "Classic Undertale" is the root system. The trunk is the branching-timeline-like AUs. (eg. "What if this happened in the classic timeline?" scenarios.) The branches are the worlds that fall adjacently, but do not necessarily share enough traits to fall into the "Trunk" category. The further and higher you get on the tree, the farther removed the AU is from the Root system. Molt views his own world as being a distant lonely leaf on that cosmic tree.

Molt and Rem view the multiverse very organically. There was no one around to teach them so they came to their own conclusions. Long story short, Molt views most Sans coded characters not in those terms but as individuals occupying a strange and kinda abstract cosmic role.

A quick note: its hard for Molt to distinguish others based on their AU because the distinction is often superficial and emotions are felt the same way. One monster's joy feels the same as another's. The difference is not the feeling itself, but how individuals react to situations. So unless Molt knows someone really well, and gets to know their voice, it's hard for him to tell them apart. As for Classic characters specifically:

Sans and Papyrus: surprisingly, Molt doesn't see himself and Rem in Sans and Papyrus as much as you would think he would. But out of the two, Molt would find himself relating to Papyrus more. Papyrus, who feels with his whole heart. Papyrus's relentless optimism and unshakable faith is infectious and inspiring, and like Molt, Papyrus knows how to keep secrets. (also, Papyrus is a significantly larger source of positivity than, pretty much, everyone else in UT. Of course, Molt would be drawn to him, but this is more a secondary reason.)

Toriel, the mother he never had: Molt likes Toriel the most. She is kind. She is loving. And though her love may blind her, she's an incredibly strong person. Privately, Molt wishes Nim could've been like her, both in the "physically there" sense and also "emotionally there" sense. It's possible that if Molt had met Toriel when he was younger, he would have accepted her as a mother figure. Now that he's older and wiser, he refuses to accept any parental/mentor figure, at all, in his life.

Asgore: the depths of his sadness and grief is intimidating. Asgore's one saving grace is that he regrets the things he's done. As a rule, Molt doesn't judge others on their past actions, but on their current actions/methodology. So how he feels on Asgore, depends on WHEN he meets Asgore. On another parental subject note: Molt has never had a father figure in his life: its an entirely new concept to him. So Asgore MIGHT get away with fatherly advice and support, as long as Molt isn't aware that's what Asgore is doing.

Fun fact! while i was writing "What I never told you" i considered the possibility of Molt meeting Asgore, Chara, and Asriel while the three were on a camping trip, instead of meeting Noelle and her mother. But this was a possibility i considered late in the game, so i ended up not using it. i think i still have a draft of it, somewhere.

Alphys: Alphys and his brother are a lot like. They both lie. They are both burdened by guilt, and that guilt governs what they do. Molt knows he should be more sympathetic, but the lies and the guilt leave a sour taste in his mouth. In saying that, if the two met, Molt would never be intentionally rude or mean to Alphys. He would keep his misgivings to himself, and keep his distance.

Undyne: a surprisingly positive influence. Undyne is a source of positivity that you would not expect if you weren't paying attention. Undyne inspires others, she gives hope to so many monsters of the underground! That being said, she is too boisterous, loud and aggressive for Molt to feel comfortable interacting with. Her loud personality is overwhelming! He prefers to appreciate her warmth from a distance.

Mettaton: Molt unironically enjoys listening to Mettaton's Movies and TV appearances, but more over, he enjoys the reaction Mettaton's corny over the top performances get from his brother and the team. Groans of dismay. Half concealed snickering. The "this movie is so bad its good" to the equally amazing "Actually I genuinely loved it but i can't admit it or everyone will laugh at me." its all so good.

When Mettaton inspires so much positivity, how could Molt not like him?

Flowey: the link to the post on flowey here!

W.D Gaster: Who is that? Never heard of him.

PS: originally I wanted to include Frisk in this post, but than i realized that i really needed to think about it more. Get back to me on Frisk later. (general statement, directed to anyone)

#orbital chatter #moltendreams!au #apologies for the wait i had to think about this one #TLDR: if u want to give Molt motherly/fatherly support u must be sneaky about it.#long post

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askfallenroyalty · 2 years ago

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my thoughts on finishing AFR (tumblr version)

Firstly, thank you all so, so so much for reading.

5 years ago, on February 19th, 2018, 2:24 PM I posted the first AFR comic. I drew it thinking it'd be a nice little project for a few months, and then I'd move on. Little did I know it'd become a huge passion project and something that's brought me many, many tears and laughter. It's been a journey making this thing, I can easily say I am hardly the person I am when I first made this. I've learned so much about myself, the world, and what I wanted to say in comics.

AFR didn't become a serious project until I realized Asriel and Chara's story hit home to me and I realized I had something more profound to say than just "heehee silly ut comic where siblings squabble." Now it's become a story about growing up, and the life after the "happy ever after." What does it mean for "everybody to live?" well, you live. You suffer. You cry and laugh and it's everything you want and you fear. You wake up another day.

It's no secret that Chara and Asriel are heavily based on myself. Every OC and every character I can put my grubby little hands on have been influenced by me. Yun's excitement for monsters, Mew Mew's loud declarations of frenzied thought, Hol's quiet, head-in-the-clouds nature... the list goes on. Knowing the characters now, I'm excited for the redraw as I can paint their stories from start-to-finish properly. It pains me more than anything I can't just say "here's a finished product, fully and forever." But one step to getting there was finally finishing the tumblr version. So even if I were to die, or lose my ability to draw, I can say: I told my story. I made it real. It's messy, incomplete, and not at all what I aspire it to be, but it's here. And that means, so, so much to me.

Never again will I be accepting story asks. Never again will we see what crazy thing Asriel and Chara are up to in their journey into adulthood. While the story will continue to develop, it has it's ending.

I've grown, a lot. I started this when I was 21 years old. I've had a on/off relationship, I've learned I'm neurodivergent, I've moved out of my abusive dad's home. I've had so many jobs in that time. I lived through the pandemic (not that it's over) and I've made and lost (out of touch) friends along the way. I am Sam. I drew AFR. I still have so much left to do to make it fully realized but I did it.

And in that time people have offered me grammar and spelling corrections. Advice, suggestions, fanart. You've sent like, I can only imagine to be at least a thousand asks in this amount of time. You guys have been a huge part in this comic being made. Even as the story moves more and more away from the "Ask" part of the title, you guys made it so much more fun, thought provoking, and exciting.

So while my minds a bit scattered and I'm kinda jumbled up, I just want to say with every bit of myself: THANK YOU!!!!!

I understand if many of you don't choose to stick around for the redraw, I'm more than thankful to anyone who's read this far (or heck, just one tumblr post is enough. I feel seen.) and if you so choose to stay, I look forward to sharing a million more little moments with you. ^_^

Thank you and I wish you the very best, have a good life. Peace and love on the planet earth <3

#doodles #ooc

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utytimeline · 10 months ago

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Thoughts on UTY (Pacifist Version)

Reactions from when I first played Pacifist, and observations I made as the game progressed. A lot of these will be outdated by the time I get this list compiled, but it’s a faithful list of my reactions. No spoilers, plz. I haven’t done Geno, betrayal kills, or boss kills yet. (I kinda don’t want to, these are my babies.)

Long post ahead.

Ruins

Questions

Clover is the narrator, aren't they? I don’t think Chara’s even in this game.

What happens if we don't leave a tip at the lemonade stand?

Is there a way to wake Decibat after he goes to sleep? (I know that's cruel, I'm just curious.)

Dalv keeps talking about a friend, talking like he thinks he will meet them again- Kanako?

Dalv is mistaking us for the human that attacked him, isn't he? The one that made Chujin decide to kill the next human?

Who was leaving Dalv corn? My best guess is Ceroba- that she's felt sorry for him this whole time.

How to look in Dalv's locked doors/drawers? (Probably have to kill him. That... is gonna hurt. I like Dalv, he's a sweetheart.)

Observations

Decibat's music volume decreases the more you stay silent. (Which makes me think all battle music is being generated by Clover, not the monster.)

"Penilla draws near." (Italics added for emphasis.) *facepalm*

"Rorrim" is "mirror" spelled backwards.

Also, "Dalv" is "Vlad" spelled backwards, so might Rorrim be Dalv's personal mirror? Seems to fit, Dalv is extremely tidy.

Dalv's furniture's "fine craftsmanship" is probably Chujin's work.

Other Thoughts

I feel like a sponge cake with 2x absorption should have an effect where it absorbs damage for at least 2 turns.

Snowdin

Questions

Does the Snowdin ice block ever move? The guy that comes here from the Dunes just stands there and does nothing. Perhaps I need to check very late in the game, return from the last SAVE in New Home or something.

What kind of creature is Mo? I looked it up, and all I can find is "he looks like a raccoon." Yeah, I can see that, but he's kinda reddish-brown, so maybe a red panda? I also considered the possibility that Mo could be a tanuki, a Japanese raccoon-dog (and yes, it looks like a raccoon) that supposedly tricks people, especially tricking them into buying drinks- and Mo is a drink salesman.

What are we to make of the human on the wanted poster that Marty describes? She said they wore a hat like ours, but they came from space. I can’t think of a single equippable UT item that seems outer spacey. And since she’s describing a wanted poster, I don’t think she’s talking about Red (the monster she thought was a human). My first guess is that some monsters may equate the Surface with outer space, since they’ve never seen either (and many monsters are obsessed with the stars- Starlo and all the monsters making wishes in Waterfall, for instance).

Observations

Flowey: "We won't be anywhere near your fancy surface air for a while." (Italics added for emphasis.) He sounds... jealous? This was when I first realized that Flowey's only playing nice, but I still have no clue what he’s really planning.

"Snowy" is just barely recognizable in "Snowfall."

Mo's theme is easy to recognize because not only does it use the Sega Genesis soundfont, it even includes the Michael Jackson whoop from Sonic 3&K.

Ice Wolf was when I started to realize that Yellow isn't that long before UT. (Yeah, I know, Flowey should've been my first clue, but I simply assumed he couldn’t be Asriel, that he was someone else that somehow turned into a flower. Anything can happen in these games, after all.)

The Shufflers are all named after things you do with a drink: Toast, Swig, and my favorite, their leader Rephil (Refill).

The Shufflers scold Clover for starting a fight, but later Axis is the one trying to drag us into a fight. I guess battles can go either way.

Shopkeepers have full animations, it's not just facial expressions.

Yellow finally gives us real puzzles. Some of them even take a bit to solve.

Flowey makes a comment about mailing ourselves to Asgore. He clearly already knows about resets, so I think it’s likely that he’s seen the moment (at the end of The Dunes) that the whales start shipping people by mail.

Other Thoughts

Frostermit is so adorable. I need a Frostermit plushie.

Mo makes me think of what Spamton must have been like before Gaster (no, I'm not suggesting a connection, just that's what he made me think of- but given the other, more obvious DR inspirations throughout the game, I think it’s possible they were going for that kind of character).

Headcanon: Insomintot is related to Knight-Knight. They both inherited a genetic tendency to fall asleep when a human sings.

I love the UGPS jingle, it's so cute.

"(The remnants of a snowman. Once full of life. Now full of potential for new life.)" This line is a little creepy, to me. Clover may not realize it, they're probably just joking, but WE know that some snowmen in the Underground are alive, and I'm wondering what happened to this one.

I don't know if it's the same soundfont, but the Honeydew Resort theme reminds me of Final Fantasy: Mysticquest.

I actually picked "minor scales" when talking to the cellist at the resort, because I actually do like minor scales.

Being a Shadow the Hedgehog fan (the character, not just the game), I got a chuckle out of the description of coffee bean ammo. What do you mean, you can't eat the beans???

I haven't actually noticed any 4th wall moments, but Martlet's message on the second ball puzzle, the message that apologizes for making it too high to see and says the human must be very good at guessing, makes me think it's a very obscure allusion to the fact that Clover is being possessed by the player. There aren't enough moments like that in this game for me to go all crazy with lore and theories, but it's a nice touch to see such an allusion.

In all fairness, Marty has some craftsmanship abilities. Unfinished, shoddy workmanship notwithstanding, it still takes some knowledge of mechanics to make a water-powered door lock.

I just love Marty, she’s so sweet, I want her to be my little sister.

Waterfall

Questions

Why does the Royal Guard bother to survey their prisoners on “auditory ambiance” and things like that when they’re just gonna deliver the SOUL to Asgore??? I mean, isn’t the victim (except Red, apparently) usually dead before they get this far???

Observations

Not sure, but I’m guessing this is a different river than the one we travel with River Person. Not only do we never meet River Person, but the colors of the ground and plants behind Ava look like the marshy sections of Waterfall that we never get to walk in.

Other Thoughts

I love how we never actually visit Waterfall (unless you count the post-credits scene), we just float past it. Acknowledgement of the source material without actually copying it. And gave them that much more time and room to include an entirely new area (2, if you count the Wild East as separate from the Dunes).

The mention of a Royal Scientist threw me off. I totally did not expect Alphys, I thought this game took place many years before UT, and I’ve seen no Gaster references in this game at all.

The Dunes

Questions

More of a complaint than an actual question, but… if they wanted to make a Zelda reference, WHY OH WHY did they have to do the Death Mountain rockfall???

Since the Dunes are so near Hotland, could the gigantic Swelterstone be responsible for Hotland’s heat, too?

Since El Bailador calls us a “Sentinel of Silence,” how will killing Decibat affect the fight with Bailey?

If you do well in the Bailey fight, does he stop saying you don’t love dancing as much as him?

How to move the sunbathing (wait, what sun?) cactus that blocks that one road?

Observations

The Dunes is where I noticed that the battle theme changes depending on the location.

Sea Tea still increases SOUL speed. Loved that they kept this in.

Same black slime that we met in MTT Resort Hotel. And still outraged because of an elevator. Feels like he’ll never find a working one.

Bowll being a china bowl shaped like a bull is probably a play on the phrase “a bull in a china shop.”

Clover got the green healing flowers (the ones in the Omega Flowey fight) from Violetta.

I sucked at Mew Mew Love Blaster, but I watched a walkthrough, and DID THEY SERIOUSLY GIVE MEW MEW A “BIG SHOT”?!? (Coming back to this after finishing the game, I went, “yup, they did.”)

Other Thoughts

“Vigorous Terrain” is my favorite location theme, but I still haven’t figured out whether there’s any significance in it being a remix of “Your Best Friend.”

That first tumbleweed, the one that comes rolling out of the hole in the cliff, had me like “wut?” I did love how they replaced Undyne’s rocks with tumbleweeds.

I also love the mines music. The first few notes remind me of Zelda’s Lullaby (from LOZ).

I actually missed getting a free pickaxe because the monster’s trivia question about the Royal Scientist threw me off. I still didn’t realize this took place after Asgore hired Alphys, I thought it came WAAAAY before that. (This also finally confirmed for me that Flowey is, in fact, the same one we know from UT, Asriel.)

I tried not to make a lot of comparisons to DR, considering this isn’t even canon to UT, but I did feel like the mouse attack in Bowll’s fight was very similar to that one attack in the Maus fights in DR. But I think the Maus fight itself was probably a reference to some old video game (can’t remember which one, it just always felt familiar), so maybe UTY was making the same reference.

Was stunned to see Undyne look-alikes in the Mines, was more surprised that they mentioned her, and was the most surprised to find that they’re not related.

Clover has a very cute animation for hopping in the mine cart.

I could not figure out Bailador’s fight mechanics, and tbh, I got thru it on an absolute fluke (and the silver scarf). I had to look up a walkthrough later to realize you have to move into the right space AND press the action button when the color lights up. I thought it was just being in the right space. Every rhythm game controls differently, it seems.

Wild East

Questions

Do mail whales keep notebooks full of potential rhymes, like Marty and her notebook full of puzzle ideas?

Is “designated naptime” a reference to siestas, or did Star just not want to overwork everybody?

“A ballet shoe could be lethal if used enough times.” Um. Got anything to share there, Blackjack? “Don’t question my morality! I’m not prepared to speak on it!” OKAY, I REALLY NEED YOU TO SPEAK ON IT NOW….

Can we get into the locked farm cellar? (Preferably without killing anyone?)

Observations

Animals still living in the Underground at least provides some explanation for where monsters get their food (in addition to the corn).

The BEST part about the health overcharge? You don’t lose it when you SAVE! He might be a plague doctor, but Doc works absolute miracles.

Star paid double price for the gun he bought us.

They actually take around 15 paces for the dual (I lost count). (And yes, I spelled it “dual” on purpose.)

Moray comments that Star made them walk around with a rubber snake in their boot. I looked it up, and it looks like the first and most well-known movie to use that “snake in my boot” reference really WAS Toy Story (although it has origins outside of film from farther back). So Starlo also watches animations (as long as they have cowboys).

Vengeful Virgil’s comment that not caring about others’ feelings is what makes him a villain, comes while we’re on our way to console Star after his cocky selfishness drove everyone away. This was not a coincidence.

Every monster has a magical ability, and Starlo’s is literal “bullet time” (he can slow you down).

^This also makes me wonder: remember how he flew backwards in slow-motion when we shot him in the dual? I wonder if he was using his bullet time on himself for dramatic effect.

Star’s family: his dad, Solomon (the sun), his mom, Crestina (the moon), and a brother who’s name I never found but looks like a 4-pointed star. (I’ve seen people call him Orion, so I’m going with that, for now.)

Star has several sticky notes in his dad’s almanac, and keeps dad’s almanac on his own bedroom nightstand. Seems like Star probably took his life on the farm seriously before he left home.

Star also apparently had an interest in outer space. Possibly some confusion stemming from Toy Story? (I actually started headcanoning that Toy Story got him into cowboys, and put together a fic on that.)

Not sure where the term “space cowboy” originated, or what Clover’s actually referring to when they say it about Star, but the first use of that phrase that I’m finding is a Steve Miller song from 1969 (referenced later in Steve Miller’s “The Joker” from 1973, the line that a lot of people associate with Steve Miller: “some people call me the space cowboy, some call me the gangster of love”). The phrase has been used numerous times in multiple ways since then.

Seems like Star sewed his own outfit.

Other Thoughts

Picked “no” when Star asked if monsters die when you ride them into the sun cuz I thought the whole town would converge upon me, heh.

Was honestly surprised that the dummy finally showed up. This was the first time I tried using the FIGHT option, and it turned out to be rather difficult. I am not looking forward to Neutral or Genocide.

Star tells Ceroba we’re as good of a shot as him, and she goes, “Really? A child?” Still not entirely sure whether she’s poking a bit of fun at Star, but I don’t think she is. Star doesn’t take any offense to her comment for himself, and her sprite when she speaks next, saying she’s “impressed,” looks extremely surprised. (In all fairness, despite Blackjack’s claims, Star actually is really good.)

I suck at them all, but the mini-games in UTY are all so fun.

Love the change-up to the battle animation during Feisty Four’s attack, how they switch between characters and even team up.

“A tumbleweed rolls by. It says hello.” Well, why not? I mean, the rocks and cacti are sentient.

The first mention of Kanako at The Lab had me in tears, because, like… we KNOW what happened to her.

Steamworks

Questions

“The Steamworks was the main power source of the Underground.” This statement confuses the timeline a bit for me. The Core is now the main power source of the Underground, but my understanding is that the Steamworks was operational long after Gaster died.

I NEED TO KNOW WHAT THAT LAST AWARD ON THE WALL SAYS.

Does the story change at all depending on what parts you use for Axis’ gf? (Also, I wonder how many of us just picked up the first 2 or 3 items and then realized there’s way more than 4 items to choose from and wished Ceroba would let us start over.)

Is there a way to fix the grandfather clock?

Does the grandfather clock say something different if the time on your PC actually is 6:26 on a Monday morning in spring?

Observations

Ceroba telling Clover to wait in the corner, kinda refers back to her doubting that a child could be as good of a shot as Star. She has very little respect for Clover at this point. Not entirely sure if it’s just because Clover’s a human, or if it’s also because they’re just a kid.

Don’t think I missed Flowey’s comment about The Lab. He clearly does NOT want us to go there.

Ceroba must have some kind of dimensional satchel, herself. I don’t see how else she can carry the hunkajunk we built (not to mention pulling her staff out of hammerspace).

BTW, “dihydrogen monoxide” is just water. Vendy probably just called it that to make it sound poisonous.

Vendy said their last boot up was yesterday and that their creator always comes by on Mondays to restock them. Sadly, the grandfather clock is stuck on 6:26, Monday morning. Kinda feel sorry for Vendy.

Guardener is actually nice. She even grows a flower just for the bot that came late.

Telly-Vis starts using the bullet patterns of other monsters during the “reruns” portion of the fight.

You can cheat on the Axis fight if you have the silver scarf. Just deliberately miss Axis when you ping-pong the red balls for enough turns to heal up.

I haven’t tried it yet, but I’m guessing that Ceroba would get mad and ditch you if you kill one of the robots, turning the run into a Neutral.

Other Thoughts

Screw those water puzzles at the start of Steamworks.

DAT MUSIC, THO.

I’m not gonna try to discuss Ceroba’s growing respect for us. That needs a whole analysis post of its own. (Well, everything about Ceroba needs its own analysis.)

Axis rolled in and I was like, “Oh, no, another one.” Seems like we just keep running into these darned toaster ovens on wheels.

Axis music is fire, tho, all of it.

I swear I hear some DR inspirations in the music. Haven’t learned the names for all the tracks yet, but at one point I thought I heard Digital Roots (when Ceroba’s fiddling with the generator) and at another I thought I heard Card Castle (the room where you build Axis’ gf).

A game mechanic I love: Ceroba’s shield effect (well, as long as it’s shielding Clover).

A mechanic I hate: Jandroid’s slippery floors.

I also love the manta ray ferryboat.

Mo’s level of professionalism is off-the-charts. He ain’t about to let a little thing like his clothes and his stand catching fire ruin a sales pitch.

Being a Christian, I’m not going to share what I really think of the Axis chase.

Loved seeing the return of popato chisps.

I swear, I thought all that white stuff was monster dust at first. Walked into the Science Division and nearly burst into tears.

I hope somebody finally has chance to either fix Guardener or shut her down properly once they reach the surface.

Conveyor belt puzzle caused me trouble because I kept trying to box up trash. Took me a while to realize “red” and “blue” referred to the highlights around the objects.

I’ll talk more in depth later, but I love how Clover has this calming effect on Ceroba when she’s chewing out the productivity bot.

Believe it or not, I didn’t get caught by Axis in the fireplace room! Go me! (Actually, it’s really not that hard….)

Still not entirely sure what I think of Axis deliberately handing us a “weapon” just to give himself an excuse to attack us.

I’ve said this before: he took me an hour and a half to fight the first time. I really hate the mechanics in his boss fight. And it was especially humiliating for me because I’d only died, maybe, 3 or 4 times before him. Didn’t have any trouble with Starlo, and while I never did get the hang of Bailey’s fight, I think I only died to him once. Guardener was responsible for the other deaths.

I love how Ceroba’s been insulting the Steamworks the whole time, but I don’t think she ever insults Axis. That was her late husband’s baby. And then she even gives him tips on dating.

Ceroba finally respects us after the Axis fight. It takes remembering why she needs us for her to be able to press on with her mission.

Chujin’s House

Questions

Woodworking, robotics, SOUL research, video game designer, loving husband and father- I know Chujin was kinda old, but how DID he find time for all this???

Marty finds Kanako’s room to be unsettling. Not sure why.

Clover doesn’t like the gas stove and worries it will cause a housefire. I’ve wondered before whether they came from an orphanage. Did they lose their family in a fire?

“The Founder’s Crest.” Who are the Founders? Founders of what? Or is this just a reference to something I’m not familiar with? (Possibly something in Japanese culture?)

Was Chujin actually that much older than Ceroba? Or did he just age rapidly because of his research? If boss monsters only age when they have children, how could he have become so old before marrying Ceroba… unless he’d already had, and lost, one child before?

I’ve been told there’s a secret behind Chujin’s grave. Will have to check it out the next time I do a Pacifist run.

Observations

Strange that Ed found the trapdoor so easily when Ceroba didn’t know about it until Chujin told her. Ceroba must not have covered it up properly before locking up the house. Possibly also Chujin somehow arranged it with her that he would be the one cleaning the dining room.

I feel like Moray’s the smartest one of the Four. They knew it was a good idea to send for Marty.

And THIS is where Marty gets smart. She takes charge in Star’s absence. The Four listen to her, even Ed (reluctantly). And SHE’s the one telling us to stay on track.

(Ok, she’s still a bit naïve- she doesn’t seem to consider that Chujin’s paper with her name is actually ABOUT her.)

The drawings on Kanako’s bedroom wall: Dalv, the monster on the Dunes swingset, her family… and a flower? Well, I mean… a lot of little kids like to draw flowers, so that might not be anything. Also a drawing of what looks like Axis lying on the floor.

“Nuh-uh! Kids shouldn’t mess with knives!” Nice little reference there, dev team.

And, of course, it’s Flowey who makes light of Ceroba’s mission, calling it a “science fair project.” Well. He has every right to say whatever he likes about SOUL research. Doesn’t he.

Of course, we didn’t get Star’s letter in time because Ceroba wouldn’t let us check the mail. But I highly doubt she planned it that way, as she had no idea the Five would be snooping around her old house.

Other Thoughts

Starlo is so. completely. PISSED. And… uh, he has a right to be. Like, she’s doing a lot of what he just did- lying and scheming and using Clover to fix her own problems (those two are a match set, I swear….) And he’s torn. These are his two friends, Clover being the human he practically worshipped, and Ceroba being one of his closest friends (not to mention the love of his life, but I digress). He doesn’t want anything to happen to her, but he can’t let Clover get hurt, either.

The fact that Moray sent for Marty as soon as learning that Clover was in danger just seals in the idea that Marty is part of the family.

…how long has that corn chowder been in that fridge, anyway???

I’ve already discussed my thoughts about Chujin in other posts, a lot of them still in queue.

Hotlands

Questions

Kinda wonder what could’ve made Clover suspicious about the wall to the left of the UG Apartments.

Never did figure out where the “rain” was coming from. I figure it’s just a leaky sink upstairs or something. (I’d thought at first it was from the janitor cleaning the hallway, but that’s on the other side of the building.)

Observations

I’m sure everyone recognized it, but in case someone didn’t, Bailey’s in the colored tile room.

I think Muffet herself blocked the way thru Hotland, renovating for her pastry shop.

Mr. Cursor mentions a 10-sided die. They have some version of D&D in the Underground. Probably more like… idk, Houses and Humans?

Working for Mettaton must have taken quite a toll on the janitor. He doesn’t look nearly so tired or decrepit here.

There was a flier on the bulletin board in the Wild East that was advertising the acts at the UG Apartments. The band we saw in Honeydew Resort has a gig at the Apartments on Fridays. So, this game- or at least by the time we reach Hotland- is on a Friday.

Other Thoughts

The monster candy is butterscotch-flavored. *nods* Of course, what else would it be?

Poor Heats. Defeateeeeeeeeed again….

Star can actually survive drinking magma. I’ve got headcanons about this boiling in my brain….

I thought Know Cone said he was just gonna look at Hotland from a mountaintop…?

New Home/Pacifist Ending

Questions

If there’s an elevator leading to the castle, I’m guessing that means at least one of the other endings has us actually fight Asgore.

How exactly does Kanako’s mask give Ceroba superpowers? I feel like it might be a reference to Japanese mythology, but I know very, very little about Japanese mythology.

How exactly does Clover have the ability to see into Ceroba’s memories?

I kinda hate myself for asking, but… what happens if you choose FIGHT after you beat Ceroba?

Observations

Star is the one asking Ceroba if she’s gonna kill them all because while he doesn’t know all the details, he recognizes the headspace she’s in.

Other Thoughts

Not only am I thrilled to finally get to explore some of New Home, I’m absolutely in love with the design and the music.

I think when Ceroba says she lied about Kanako, she’s not saying she lied about Kanako falling down, or about sending her to the lab. She lied about having any hope that Kanako would return safely.

How the heck do frikkin’ cherry blossom petals have so much attack power???

The dash mechanic took me time to learn, but if Toby ever decides to steal from Yellow, I hope he steals this :P

My reactions to Ceroba’s plan: “But Chujin specifically begged you NOT to use Kanako! How do you think you’re honoring his memory by going against his final wish?!” “Oh, I see, finishing the serum was his death wish. That’s still no excuse to use your own daughter, tho.” And finally: “…oh…”

I tried to get thru the game without cheats (except for being on easy mode) but I did have to turn on auto-fire for Ceroba’s final phase.

#undertale yellow #my thoughts #questions #my analysis #long post #pacifist #too many characters and locations to tag

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spoouuppieee · 2 months ago

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woah?? woah?? Amphibia au?? Calamity anne fr? the text messages show what the “background” is :))

‘marcys perspective.

Marcy wanted to go to frog valley to explore, she's met Sasha but she's busy in toad tower. She needed to find anne, she just wants to see her again. It's been 5 months and the path to frog valley opened up. Maybe she's here?

She uses Joe sparrow to travel, and flys upon wart wood, reaching the sign. 'Hard to accept, harder to respect.'

She has heard some rumors of a 'monster', could it be anne? Some newts that don't know her thinks she's a monster, she reaches upon many frogs, playing around. She's asked some frogs, many of the frogs were weirded out by her, not wanting to talk but some just shrugged and answered. Many talked about the 'plantars' saying that they've went near the monster at times. Mostly the boy names sprig, he's said that the monster doesn't hurt, and that the monster IS hurt. But many don't care.

Marcy went to the plantars house hold, determined. She's thinking, "please, I hope Anne's here, I hope she's safe" she knocks the door and hopediah sees her.

"Uh.. hello?" He looks up at her, seeing the weird creature.

"You look just like that monster!" He tries to slam the door on marcy, but Marcy makes the door not slam.

"Hi mr. Plantar! I was here to talk about the monster actually! So, where would it be?? Is a 'sprig' here??" she says happily and calm.

"Er, I don't think I should tell anything to you beast! But, I will let sprig talk to ya, but if you do anything. You'll be 6 feet below. You hear me?" He stated, serious.

"Yes, yes!" She says a bit nervous but still scared.

-----

a few moments late sprig comes out, and they come to talk by the fence

"Heya stranger! Whatcha want? You kinda look like that anne-beast! She told me her name, but idk! She started not to talk to me after awhile" he said, just blabbering, he chuckled at the end of his sentence

"W-Wait.. anne??" They just started to talk, and she now knows Anne's here? That's just, weird.

"Yeah! Want me to bring you to her! That's what hop-pop told me, but it's not my fault if you die! Idk if she eats you guys, but all I know she doesn't eat frogs, but no one believes me!" He said, just smiling while talking.

"Really?! Yes, yes!" She grabbed out her journal, and made him lead the way.

------

They walked to the forest, sprig showing her a cave, a cave showing with a small blue glow. But they can't seem to see inside the cave.

"Here ya go! I'm gonna go back home or hop pop will killllll meeeeee!!!! Bye!" Sprig ran back home, skipping even, he seems so oblivious to even be talking

"I-.. Uh, thanks! errrrrrr you!" While sprig left, she didn't dare to go inside yet. Maybe anne is hostile? Scared? She doesn't know yet. She goes by a tree and sits there, to wait for anne to come o ut

----

IM GONNA FINISH WRITIJG LATER BC CLASS IS AB TO END’

#amphibia #marcy wu #amphibia marcy #digital art #art #marcy wu amphibia #amphibia anne #darcy amphibia #darcy wu #anne boonchuy #amphibia au #calamity anne

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acerikus · 2 months ago

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G o d. All gekkos' outertale posting makes me wanna talk more in depth about the characterisation and plot issues in this game and why they bother me...

(readmore bc holy fuck this got long, it's probably like 5k words. It's also pretty much all salt, categorised by character)

Toriel

Why. Why is she like this. Kinda feels like the creator of the game hates her and if they don't, they have a weird way of showing it. She's treated as overdramatic and unjustified in her anger at asgore despite the fact that he DID declare war on humanity and he DID willingly let the people believe he was killing human children to harvest their souls. Even if he didn't do it for real in this game, she has every right to be angry and to not trust him, and it CERTAINLY doesn't make her undeserving to be a mother or whatever. Idk about you, but I don't think wanting kids to stay away from a man yelling about wanting to kill every child that crosses him makes you a bad parent, even if it turns out he didn't really hurt anyone y'know?

They also REALLY zoned in on 'mother' with her in a way that doesn't really make sense here. I could maybe see her feeling guilty for making a snap judgement but how would that call her motherhood into question?

Sans saying isolation messed with her makes no sense too!!!! The outerlands or whatever they called the ruins isn't sealed off in this game, other monsters seem way less intimidated by her in this game than in undertale (she has friends! She knows sans by name and goes to napstablook's shows and even has their phone number!), and we outright get told she takes the taxi to get her groceries... Meaning she headed off to the rest of the outpost and probably does that often enough.

All things considered, Toriel seems fairly well adjusted in outertale, at least by outertale standards. Kinda then makes it feel like everyone's just trying to convince her she's hysterical and that... Sucks.

Also the fact that they added an ending where you stay with her and framed it as a bad ending that doomed everyone is... Really mean? It sucked ass I'm sorry :/

Sans

... Why is he like this. This take on Sans is absolutely infuriating tbh. The only positive I really have here is that his puns are kinda good, I've seen fangames that fuck up this element massively and it was kinda fun to see his interactions in starton.

Okay, back to salt. His whole 'i became a sentry to help humans' thing is trash. He didn't care about that in ut! He didn't care about that at all! The only reason he looks out for frisk is because he made a promise to toriel, and he hates breaking promises. He didn't want to let down his friend.

...Huh. realising this is yet another case of Toriel disrespect somehow. Yet another thing they took from her, that they then just... Handed over to sans instead. :/

His lack of backstory. Look, I get wanting something silly, but they took almost everything that makes sans interesting away. Not hyperfocusing on sans like certain aus do is nice, but it feels like in a lot of situations in this game they overcompensated by a long shot.

No mysterious past/origins. We know he worked with alphys I guess but???? Honestly I have a LOT to rant about for that part so I'll leave it for twinkly's section. And yet despite all this, Sans inexplicably bleeds in tpe when not even undertale has that happen? Make up your mind!

His role in non Asriel chaotic also... Sucks ass. I'm in a pretty awesome corner of the fandom in terms of the people I follow and the takes I see as a result, so if I'm honest, when I saw all those posts about 2024 fanon sans being indifferent to his brother's murder, I kinda just figured they were vaguing about this game. You're telling me that sans of all people just shrugs off you killing everyone and complains a little bit before letting you pass?! He should know alphys already ran off. He should know the only person left to stop you is asgore, and that it's obvious he won't. Part of this could be connected to how frisk is written perhaps, and much like the twinkly situation, I'll have much more to say on that further down.

I understand the creator didn't wanna have a sans fight in their game - however, if that's the case... Maybe come up with a reason for him to NOT show up in the last corridor, then? Have him busy helping with evacuations or something, or already dead like in the first chaotic ending... This was just sloppy.

Papyrus

Honestly he wasn't... Terrible. The phonecalls were fun even if most were cheap references (though they can be fun in fangames sometimes so I'm not mad at this lol). Him being extremely talented at making spaghetti is just one symptom of one of this game's biggest flaws, however. I really don't like how nobody's really allowed to be bad at anything or have any real struggles in this game - especially when spaghetti in undertale is used to demonstrate his relationship with undyne and the similar wavelength they're on when humans aren't involved. She's the one who started teaching him to cook it, it's deeply intertwined with his desire to be a royal guard, and it's something they suck at together. Him just inexplicably being good at it is... Weird, and feels really disconnected from their friendship and her reluctance to let him in the guard yknow?

Also: his boss final phase. Having the dog NOT take his special attack away this time was really funny admittedly but... Idk? Not only is the fight really unfair for pacifist/neutral and those who aren't as good at the game (ut never gets this hard outside of geno), it feels way too on the nose in terms of insisting he's strong and has powerful attacks. Undertale didn't need to overcompensate to get across that papyrus is strong and disciplined and the way you have to infer that in undertale is way cooler. I might just be nitpicking with this point tbh but it's whatever. Letting myself be a hater for once.

And don't get me started on him getting together with Mettaton. It seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere, the idea that they were already friends in this was glossed over really quickly and no time was really put into developing the relationship save for papyrus commenting on finding him attractive every few minutes.

Gotta be honest, I've never been a fan of this ship nor understood its popularity. Papyrus very briefly mentions thinking he's attractive in undertale, but it doesn't really go anywhere and I'm not even sure mettaton knows he exists. It feels like it was just kinda added because it's a popular ship and that's it, not sure it really contributes much to either of their arcs. It was a light-hearted celebrity crush in canon and never really tried to be more.

Oh, oops. Had more to say here than I thought.

Undyne

Not much to say here... I think she was okay, there's nothing super bad with her. I do think the way gerson kinda downplays her/lacks faith in her in the chaotic route kinda sucks and I think choosing to make her non-undying chaotic bossfight harder sure was A Choice, but it's whatever. Undying was weirdly easy in a way that didn't do her much justice. Honestly they didn't do enough with her for me to have a wall of complaints and I can't tell if that's a good thing or not. Her relationship with alphys didn't really amount to much and her lack of understanding of human culture doesn't really hit as hard when she's just talking about random sci-fi things that we have no way of knowing are real or not in this game's idea of the 2600s ourselves, y'know? Her love of anime (that she mistakenly thinks is human history) is pretty absent here except to validate her relationship with alphys in a very shallow way.

The Ghost Family

Hoo boy... Was gonna make this the mettaton section, but I wanted to talk about napstablook at the same time, so I'm just gonna lump them all together.

What. What the hell was this plotline.

It feels like they tried to go for 'smalltime farmer chases passion for stardom after feeling unfulfilled at home' and as I've seen someone else say, 'shy business owner struggles to talk to their cousin outside of work'. This would've been fine tbh, but... There's a lot of things in the execution of this that kinda grossed me out if I'm honest. I don't think they were intentional, but I think it could've been thought through a lot better to avoid some unfortunate implications - or even lean into them in a respectful way.

Firstly, the ghost family intervention was pretty long, awkward, and didn't feel like it really added much - especially when most people playing would already know mettaton's backstory anyway (and his house is still accessible like in undertale!!!!! What was the point?)

Mettaton airing out his family issues on live TV feels very ooc - he keeps that stuff very close to his chest and I doubt he'd like it getting out. Him entertaining any of that out in the open seems... Weird.

Speaking of the intervention, his cousins' treatment of him was horrifying! Part of it seems intentional and it's nice that there's at least one part in the game where characters are allowed to have flaws and do bad things but... There's also elements that feel like you're meant to agree with them? Their insistence that mettaton just come home and everything they did in the past with constantly badgering him to come and help out on the farm were rightfully treated as something that hurt mettaton's feelings and that gave napstablook and the others pause. That's (mostly, we'll come back to it later) fine. He called them out for it and they reflected on it, cool. The way his ghost form was utilised makes me extremely uncomfortable, however.

Napstablook talks about hearing 'the real [mettaton]' in the recording, right to his face, 'the real mettaton' in this scenario alluding to his ghost form. Considering mettaton is a trans allegory, this feels... Kinda gross? In a similar vein, when passing mettaton's quiz barriers, one of the questions is 'what is mettaton's true identity' and you have the option to deadname him (using a name papyrus literally just made up in undertale rather than having any kind of creativity ofc) Alphys' reaction is simply to ask how you know that which... Doesn't feel great. The correct answer is 'mettaton' ofc thankfully, but everything around this particular plot point feels weird. Maybe don't do that w the most prevalent trans allegory character..?

And ofc, they keep insisting he just come home, go back to working on the farm, go back to his family... Idk, gives me vibes of someone abandoning their shitty transphobic family and then insisting they want to see 'the real [deadname] again' and for them to abandon their new life and just go back to the way things were before. Not good.

All of this would still be okay for the most part since the ghost family are painted as being unfair to mettaton... But in true pacifist, he goes back to helping out with the farm anyway and talks about how he thinks he was probably just being dramatic after all, and how 'blooky didn't do anything that bad'

... What?

It takes me right back to Toriel's treatment. Napstablook, Maddie and lurksalot gave no real thought to mettaton's feelings, made it all about them and showed pretty much no support for his transition nor his career! Fuck those guys! It's funny - mettaton is pretty consistently a pompous asshole (affectionate) in undertale but here, I think all his feelings towards his family were COMPLETELY valid. Mettaton outertale didn't do anything wrong.

Lurksalot didn't feel like they contributed much to the story either, save to be yet another character treating mettaton like shit with zero consequences nor narrative judgement. They just made every ghost family event even more drawn out.

And then ofc!!!! Mettaton and Alphys' friendship is so bland in this game! They're two people who kinda know each other and she says some nice things about him in a letter in chaotic but that's about it. Their friendship and the subsequent conflict frisk's arrival brings to it in undertale is the heart of hotland and the core, but here it's just replaced with unnecessary, hard to watch, boring family drama. The two of them have no issues to work out. She doesn't ask too much of him. There's no funny quips and barely any chemistry at all. God forbid either of them have any real flaws.

One last thing: I'm glad maddie gets her mew mew body, it's nice. Wish it was an on-screen moment or something alluded to more though. Some of that time dragging out the family drama could've been used on that instead, y'know? Especially with napstablook getting the mew mew doll... Genuinely thought they were gonna show it to her when they first got hold of it, rather than dragging Frisk into their intervention. She should've gotten to be more mad, too. Kinda a big part of her identity.

Oh, and mettaton's no-asriel chaotic fight was bullshit. It was a nice spamton reference and the first phase was cool, but the second was utter bullshit and dragged out the fight way too long. Attacking him after snapping all the wires should've killed him im sorry. It's even more of a shame bc I genuinely really liked this game's mettaton neo fight - it was fun and creative and felt possible.

Holding myself back from adding any more to this bc I could go on and on, ugh.

Alphys

Alphys. For a game that tries to make her the star of it, it's actually kinda impressive how much they managed to take away from her and just how uninteresting she is in this game.

At the surface level she's awesome, powerful, and the star of the show. In my first playthrough I was actually pretty happy to see her thriving like this! The more routes I played and the more I thought about it though they just kinda... Declawed her. Took away all her flaws. Made her 'perfect' in a way that I don't think works at all.

The amalgamates never happened. None of her experiments went wrong. She never hid away from her mistakes, or lied to anyone (save for keeping Asgore's secret, which she has no negative feelings about), nor did she over engineer any situations to make herself seem cooler. She doesn't argue with Mettaton! She's confident and assertive! She's Asgore's right hand woman and next in line for the throne! And ofc, the badass final boss! What's not to love?

...But none of this is Alphys, is it?

Her anxiety isnt just because of the determination experiments, it's pretty clear she's always been a pretty shy and nervous person. In fact, based on her entries they were one of the things she was more confident in before it all went wrong. People are hard, but she knows science, y'know?

She doesn't get to be flawed or interesting - despite her presence, she's just a generic cool scientist who's suave with the ladies, I guess..?

She isn't particularly dorky, shes overly confident, she has zero issues to work through. Her relationship with undyne is perfect (derogatory) and her infodumping about anime just before the archive feels very forced, like they remembered last minute that she does that and thought it should be included somehow.

Depicting what she'd be like in a scenario where the determination experiments never happened is a fun and interesting idea! But deltarune demonstrates how to do that well, and I think they completely missed the mark. The way she talks, her body language, the way she acts around others in general... These things are universal constants and yet in outertale, she's basically a different person entirely.

Outertale alphys isn't allowed to lie (save to cover for asgore Secretly Being A Good Person), she isn't allowed to miscalculate, she isn't allowed to mis-speak or make mistakes or do anything she'd regret. She feels like an alphys written by someone who hates her in canon and thinks all her flaws make her terrible and unlikable. I doubt this is the case since I don't think a person like that would've given her such prevalence, but that's the level of love and attention I feel was given to her writing here. It makes me sad.

And, of course... The DT experiments and her fight.

... Why did she have vials of determination if all the humans are alive? Did she take it from them? If so, was this before or after they went into stasis? We know she's not been the royal scientist for long in relation to how long humans have been falling, so did ROMAN take the determination? How much of this did she even DO?

Why did she and sans even DO anything with determination? It... Doesn't really make sense.

Speaking of determination, why did she melt at the end of her fight? I'd assume she's injected herself with determination as one of the vials in her lab is mentioned to be partially used, but I'm pretty sure it's also like this on pacifist. Was that overlooked? Are we just meant to assume it's MORE depleted? Does she just have natural determination now because She's So Cool And Badass? This isn't even really a complaint about the fight, more just how poorly that part of her lab is handled lmao

But getting into her fight... Idk, it didn't really feel like her. A lot of it was just random bullshit that was hard for the sake of being hard, that didn't really seem to be tied to her identity very well at all. People complain a lot about the Zenith Martlet fight in undertale yellow but that's done far better than this, imo. It clearly reflects martlet's character, personality and canonical bullet patterns (we see Alphys' in ut tpe!), there's a genuine feeling of progression in the fight and the act you're given to help with the fight feels more effective - you can still damage her on her turn, so taking a turn to heal act doesn't feel like a waste. The Asriel acts though... They just don't last long enough to feel that worth it? Sure they're okay, but in general, you get a lot less time to breathe. Martlet's fight lets you retry from phase 2 if you die. Sans' in undertale gives you as many turns as you need to heal while he's sparing you. Alphys' fight just feels like it's made to feel un-fun and painful throughout in a way that just isn't worth it, and doesn't really feel like it fits her personality either, y'know? The fight was just a slog and like many others, I had zero motivation to finish it legit. I don't think it helps that the undyne and mettaton fights in this route are fairly easy and simple in comparison.

Tldr: they took away everything that makes alphys endearing, fun and interesting. This isn't alphys at all.

Asgore

A huge chunk of this essay accidentally got deleted, including my first attempt at writing this section. In it, I mentioned that the Asgore apologism went way too far.

This time though, I don't think I'd even call it that. Reflecting on it, it feels less like an attempt to defend him and more like a way to hate on and spite Toriel.

Seriously. So much of his character basically just feels like someone going 'fuck you toriel. I'm giving EVERYTHING to asgore.'

It's... Really weird?

Asgore having a way out of killing humans is an interesting concept! Outertale takes place 500 years in the future compared to undertale, so the idea that they have the resources and technology to do that is kinda cool and in theory, exploring this idea sounds really fun. In practice though, it feels like it was mostly done to make Toriel out to be an asshole for no reason and to laugh at her for ever assuming he would've really killed anyone (despite... Y'know. Telling everyone that's what he was doing.)

He just. Completely moved on from Toriel without a second thought seemingly, and doesn't even look that affected by seeing her turn up again - meanwhile SHE'S got crumpled up tea recipes in the trash and all the Sad Divorced Energy - it doesn't really fit either of them! Toriel wasn't really given a reason to miss him like that, and I think even if he DID fully move on, he'd be way happier to see her than that.

All his leading statements on how she must feel in LV1 pacifist sucked ass also, especially with the way she kinda just agreed that yeah, she feels like shit for not trusting that he'd suddenly do a 180 and not hurt anyone (AGAIN. AFTER HE CONTINUED TO LET EVERYONE BELIEVE THIS) and that she must feel unworthy of being a mother. She hadn't even said half of this in front of him yet! He put words in her mouth! That in itself would be fine (social blunders are pretty normal for asgore after all) but it... Wasn't treated like that. It was handled as if this was a sweet and compassionate thing for him to say which... Yikes.

And ofc he gets to adopt frisk, and monster kid, and get to have Asriel live with him! His fatherhood is never called to question in undertale, but ofc Toriel's motherhood has to be here. Hell, despite their divorced status, if you talk to gerson in tpe it's highly implied frisk asks if asgore would start aging again if he became their dad! Idk, all of this part just reeked of Toriel hate and nothing more. Asgore is just yet another character to get sanded down and de-clawed and it sucks. So much of what makes him interesting is his mistakes and flaws and how they impact him, y'know?

Twinkly

I wanna start this by saying I don't think his writing is too bad. It's not amazing by any means but by outertale standards, he's one of the better written characters. That being said, Flowey is my favourite character of all time so I'm still gonna be critical.

So they did save the goat. Save the goat aus really aren't my thing nowadays - I feel like so often people act like he's a separate person to Flowey entirely and act like the alarm clock app dialogue doesn't exist. Asriel didn't end the story as a doomed tragedy fated to fade away! Flowey ended the story as someone who finally got closure on the loss of his best friend, and can finally learn to move on, even if it takes him a while to adjust. I don't think he needs to be a goat again for that.

That being said, I know these kinda aus are a big wish fulfilment thing for a lot of the fandom that aren't even necessarily something people want to be canon as much as they just wanna explore the idea and see him truly happy, so I won't judge that element too harshly. People are allowed to have fun, and I think save the goat can be fine if it respects him as flowey rather than separating them.

I really like that they allow Asriel to be fucked up and an asshole rather than him soft rebooting into some Sweet Perfect Little Prince once he returns to his old form, like so many other save the goat takes. Even in lv0's ending he struggles to bite back insults and mean comments aimed at Monster Kid which is... Admittedly kinda refreshing! There's definitely some flowey (or I guess in this case, twinkly) behaviour that still comes through here and I'm glad. This carried over to chaotic, too. While his characterisation wasn't perfect, this at least felt like twinkly obtaining a few form and continuing to play with the world, rather than your standard Asriel take. I also really liked that he remembers and acknowledges chaotic if done before pacifist, that was neat and adds to his character (as far as this game goes) I think.

However, onto the biggest, glaring issue I have with him.

Why. Why does he exist.

No, seriously.

In its attempt to make the world perfect, a world that blatantly only exists so the creator could make a save the goat ending, mind, there's no reason for the goat to need to be saved at all. Nor for him to exist after dying back when Chara lived with the dreemurrs.

Asgore isn't killing humans, so the souls don't need to be absorbed by anyone. Frisk can just enter the archive and lend their power to destroy the forcefield themselves, so there's no ultimatum like there is in undertale - there's no implied tradeoff of Frisk's life for the freedom of monsters without twinkly's intervention. In undertale, flowey's messing around opened up an ending that would've otherwise been impossible, something that worked for everyone.

Without him existing at all here, frisk could've broken the barrier just fine. All it really added to pacifist was a couple extra boss fights and asgore being dead for two minutes. And him being saved I guess but again, there's no real story justification for him being here EXCEPT to pat yourself on the back for saving him.

Why was he created? In undertale it's pretty clear - they wanted a vessel to hold all the souls in for now during the true lab experiments. He exists because Alphys selected the first flower to ever grow in the garden and injected it with determination that she extracted from the human souls.

... But all the humans are... Alive and well in outertale? They don't need a vessel to contain their souls. They don't need to extract any determination from anyone. Again, why do they HAVE vials of determination? And why did she inject one into a flower?

AND THAT'S THE OTHER BIG THING. It's established she and sans injected a starling flower for... Whatever reason. SO WHY THE HELL IS TWINKLY A CARTOON STAR?!

This point makes absolutely no sense at all. He looks absolutely nothing like a starling flower nor does he behave like a flower at all, which is confusing if that's what he started as. Honestly, I think it would've made more sense to just keep him as Flowey if they were gonna include him at all, and just have his appearance reflect a starling flower instead of a golden flower.

This applies to his fight too. Mechanically I think it's AWESOME, but the visuals are... Just very very boring. A huge part of why his fight in the original is so good it's the bizarre and chaotic nature of it, the horror elements, and the way so much of flowey's trauma in terms of how he was created and the things he finds scary was put on blast for all to see. The combination of mechanical and organic elements, all the plants and insects... Idk, just going 'hmm he's a star. Let's have him go through a star life cycle' is boring, there's no visual appeal.

If his creation is so vague and wishy washy, this would've been a great opportunity to flesh it out more. How was he created? What kinds of technology and machinery did alphys use to put all this together? How did she (or roman????? unclear) get the determination? What does twinkly remember?

That leads me onto a tangentially related topic - his trauma. I... Don't think this was shown very well. He talks a bit about BEING traumatised from the lab, but telling isn't the same as showing and canon flowey is terrible at hiding it, whereas I'd just as easily believe outertale Asriel made it up for sympathy points. He never really projects, he doesn't force anyone else to experience anything like he did, nothing like that. He's just a cocky asshole who likes killing, and who eventually decides to start being nice.

This game constantly seemed to be speedrunning ways to get him from being twinkly to being Asriel as quickly as possible in almost every single route which... Huh???? It's weird. Would've been nice to let him be a star more rather than just Asriel...

(final amendment bc I lost a huge chunk of this essay originally and had to rewrite it, and I'm realising I didn't manage to fit this in this time... How does a single monster soul let him get his Asriel form again? Sure he's still treated as if soulless and it doesn't make him a good person, but if he was 'so tired of being a star', why hadn't he tried doing this sooner? It makes no sense...)

For a game that exists to give him a good ending, it's so ironic how little he needs to exist at all in this world. Just goes to show what it looks like when you go too far with 'fixing' things or removing stuff you seem 'too problematic' for the sake of being wholesome or whatever.

Chara

Speaking of which... Look I'm just gonna say it. This version of Chara sucks so bad.

Chara is one of my favourite characters - they're really interesting, morally grey, and a fascinating way for undertale as a game to interface with us as players.

They're a child who likely saw the worst of humanity, then found themselves in a home with family who genuinely loved them once they fell down and met the monsters. Their intense saviour complex made them feel like the best way to help their family was to sacrifice their own life to get enough souls to break them free (and once they realised they had control, get payback against the humans while they were at it). They could be mean-spirited and a prankster. They valued efficiency HIGHLY. Their favourite number was nine because it's the limit, the absolute, a way to stop hurting and to stop others hurting.

And by doing geno, you can push this fixation on stats further. Max out all your stats. Gain power. Get stronger. Become invincible. Nobody can hurt any more if the world is gone. And ofc, they stand as the final arbiter of consequences for the player. Your punishment for killing everyone and for pushing them into believing it needs to be completed. Chara both IS is and is separate from us in a way that can't really be fully disentangled and it's really, really cool.

Anyway, enough gushing about undertale Chara. What's outertale Chara in comparison?

... Nothing.

They're nothing.

Outertale Chara narrates occasionally. They're a ghost that follows frisk around, but aren't confined to that, and have been actively wandering the underground since their death. They also still have a SOUL for some reason? This part doesn't really make sense at all.

Other than sacrificing themself and maybe wanting to take out a few humans after Asriel absorbs them, they don't do anything that could be considered bad ever. The most devious thing they ever do is snatch Asriel's diary to leave a silly comment in there when they first arrive at the outpost (sans does this with Toriel's phone in undertale tpe for comparison lmao). Despite what Asriel seems to believe, Chara is completely absent from the chaotic route - never getting corrupted, never caring about our stats, never wanting to hurt anyone, never even trying to make us face any consequences. They're just... Not here. For a character so prevalent in the murder based route of undertale this is fucking wild.

They all but vanish if you so much as say something slightly mean to someone, too! It's strange, makes no sense, and just like with sans, it feels like they overcompensated waaaaaaay too much for the people who insist they're evil. On top of that, if you do chaotic before lv0, they don't even remember chaotic happening! They'd may as well have just been a member of the ghost family who likes following Frisk around when they're especially nice. Like Asgore and alphys, they've been sanded down and de-clawed to be 'wholesome' and 'perfect', and it just results in a bland, boring character who loses anything that made them interesting, nuanced and fun.

'Chara wasn't the greatest person'... Why, though? They don't have enough substance in this game for that line to really have as much impact.

Frisk

I'm gonna be honest - I actually ADORED their frisk at first, and I think that's because I started with a neutral run and ended up drawing them a lot. They felt silly and mischievous and interesting, and this continued into chaotic. They seem pretty chill with what's going on but then take that even further by being hilariously affectionate with Asriel and still doing silly things like being up for picking up the electrodampening fluid or drinking directly out of the fountain. They felt like a funny little mini-kris (save for being okay with all the murder ofc).

Then uhhhhhhh... That's when I experienced the second chaotic ending, the one without Asriel, as well as lv0. I feel like they definitely DID try to lean on the Kris angle on purpose in terms of their feelings on being controlled and stuff but it???? Just doesn't work very well? There's no ambiguity to this version of frisk once you've seen all the routes. Just like EVERYONE ELSE, they're just a perfect little angel who would never do anything wrong and anything past lv0 is just the eeeeeevil player influence or whatever. Come on, we have deltarune for that kinda approach to control 😭 (though even then, Kris is a layered and interesting character who isn't goodness and innocence personalised, and that's why they're cool)

In undertale, we have no idea what frisk is like as a person. WOULD they spare everyone without our influence? Would they kill? Would they be a scared child lashing out in self defense? Would they run from everything, then give up and let themselves die permanently somewhere? We just don't know! We're not supposed to know! It feels like it went back to the very early fandom interpretation where frisk is Good And Sweet and Innocent while Chara is evil incarnate - except this time they're BOTH the former.

It's a contradiction too! Why in the Asriel chaotic route are they so down to follow him, and pet him, and hug him every chance they get if they don't like all the stuff we're making them so? The player has no influence over Twinkly. Every single thing he did, he chose to do, and yet even if the only time frisk has seen him was him destroying their mercy button and forcing them to kill for him, they seem to love him to pieces and go along with whatever he says happily. What.

I feel like they didn't know what to do with Frisk here at all and it shows.

Other characters

This has been ridiculously long, but to quickly go over non-major characters... They did very few things to make Roman seem interesting, the amount of stuff hes implied to have helped Asgore with just reduces even further any influence or impact alphys had, and (a smaller nitpick)... Why didn't he use times new roman as a font when we DID see him speak in the archive/on the signal stars? It's such a missed opportunity...

Burgerpants was fun... Kinda. Developing him like this feels like something that should've happened DURING the actual game rather than before it though because it made him feel like a whole other person entirely? The poisoned food was very funny though.

Why is Snowy now Stardrake when his dad hasn't changed at all and Crystal looks like any other snowdrake? That was bizarre.

I actually really liked the humans! Establishing them as actual characters was really fun, and I especially like justice. Justice, at least in my opinion, is probably the most interesting character in this whole game tbh - someone who tried to do good but ultimately caused more harm than good, while NOT downplaying it, showing the consequences directly, and showing them work to try to make things better. The way we don't grab their item like the others in the twinkly fight nor go through an area for them in the archive (and just talk to them instead) really adds to their intrigue - what are they like? Who did they know? Is there something they don't want us to see? How are they strong enough to not need us to grab their weapon at all to lend their help? I think it's get funny that the only character I'm fully praising is the clover-adjacent one. Justice outertale they could never make me hate you

(that being said... seeing the way this game is clearly just supposed to be a 'fix' for undertale does sour my thoughts on the humans a little. did they only do this bc they thought them NOT being full characters in ut was bad/a problem with it? 🥴 This applies to the additional monster kid story focus too).

Speaking of monster kid... Them being an orphan was clearly just a plot device to give asgore more kids and therefore feel like he won more than Toriel. Monster kid in undertale seems like they probably did have real and loving parents, and they have a sister too!!!! Would've been nice if they'd at least done something with their sister :(

This got... Way longer than I expected, so I'll stop here. But outertale definitely gave me an even bigger appreciation for other ut fangames. My gripes with deltatraveler section 3 feel much smaller in comparison now, if tsus misses the mark on Flowey later down the line they've at least already done most characters so much more justice, and it really puts into perspective all the heart and soul that went into kissy cutie, as well as its genuine love got the source material and characters.

Sorry outertale, you weren't for me. That being said, if anyone disagrees with any of this then that's fine! These are all just my opinions and feelings on it after going through all the routes and talking about it with friends. Media is always gonna resonate with different people in different ways and that's a good thing! If your perspective on any of this is different and if you had way more fun with it, I'm glad you did and I genuinely wish I could've felt the same. I feel like at the very least, making it has probably been a great learning experience for the devs and I really hope they carry on making games and improving their skills. Hope y'all are thriving and having fun regardless 💙

#xan plays outertale #I'm not tagging it w the actual game name. that wouldn't feel right #again: most of this is salt. it's also an opinion piece #it was just nice to get my thoughts out there yknow?#if anyone manages to read all this i respect your perseverance tbh lol

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