#imagining eros seeing this big man and oh damn he's hot and then 'oh damn that's a borisin'

[draconicfool]

triple posting hang on guys

bark bark bark y'know what i'm sayin?

[norsecoyote]

There's this one stupid internet argument I keep getting into even though I know I shouldn't.

I follow/participate in a forum thread about webcomics, which is a mixture of genuine appreciation for good ones and communal hate-reading of the really bad ones. One such Bad One is the inexplicably but wildly popular Lore Olympus.

Lore Olympus is a terrible fucking comic for so many reasons, all of which originate in the creator's stunning lack of talent for anything beyond creating a vaguely compelling aesthetic. Artistically, the characters are all literally indistinguishable from one another except that each one is colored different (by which I mean, their entire figure is colored, skin, hair, clothes, everything). All the women have identical figures and faces (although some have pointy ears). There are a whopping two types of men's bodies, "buff" and "willowy," but they all have the same noses. Oh, and all of these body shapes change wildly from panel to panel, with zero sense of proportion or scale between characters.

The writing is where the real deep problems start, though. The comic bills itself as a retelling of the myth of Hades and Persephone except this time Persephone has Agency™, which tbf is a great concept. The problem is that the author repeatedly goes miles out of her goddamn way to rob her of any possible agency in her situation. She is literally constantly being manipulated by the other gods, pushed into uncomfortable situations, entire jobs, relationships, etc. with zero chance to choose for herself. Even beyond the core plot details, though, her internal characterization is childish verging on infantilizing; we are constantly reminded how out-of-her-depth and naive she is about the big bad adult world of Mount Olympus.

Which is a segue into the really awful shit that this comic pulls, as it happens. See, in this weird-ass inconsistent interpretation of the mythos (don't even attempt to make sense of the worldbuilding, seriously), Hades and all of the other Olympians are ~2,000 years old. Persephone, meanwhile, is 18. Literally 18. Also, Hera assigns her (without any of Persephone's input) to work as Hades's intern (Hades here being the CEO of "Underworld Corp").

So we're already getting into rocky waters, since the comic has somehow conspired to make the power dynamics of this relationship even more unbalanced and one-sided than the original mythos, where Persephone was physically abducted and carried off. But the real damning thing is that, having established this titillatingly taboo relationship, the author makes a special point of establishing that what attracts Hades to Persephone is: her body. I wish I were joking, but there's literally zero time spent on what he likes about her as a person, versus whole episodes on his feelings of lust. Which is still better than Captain Agency, for whom we have actually ZERO sense of what she sees in the gangly blue asshole (Hades is blue, which is the only way to tell him apart from his brothers, who are yellow and green).

So the comic sucks, and that's not even getting into the ways that every single character who suggests that maybe it's not appropriate for Hades to romantically pursue his 1,982-years-younger employee is immediately thereafter shown to be hypocritical and/or sabotaging the relationship for their own selfish ends, or the way that Persephone begins to come to terms with having been raped (in an early scene) not through any actions or reflection of her own but via Eros using his magic fuck-detecting powers(?) to realize and exclaim out loud, with other people present, that she's not a virgin anymore(??!!!!) and pressuring her into telling him the whole story. The comic sucks in both concept and execution and I kind of hate that it's apparently popular enough to get optioned for an animated series.

None of that is the stupid argument I keep getting into, though.

The stupid argument is that many posters in the thread, when asked (say, by a newcomer) why Lore Olympus is so bad, will say something like "because it's about how a really toxic type of relationship" (i.e. one with an enormous age- and power-gap) "is Good, Actually."

And mostly I can just let this slide, but every once in a while I am compelled to say, "actually, it's not bad because it wants to tell a romance about a powerful older man falling for a younger woman, it's bad because it does a really bad job of telling that story, in a way that actively glorifies the imbalance and either glosses over or actively mocks all reasonable issues with it."

Because, IMO, you shouldn't say that art is bad because of its subject matter. Just because I think relationships in real life like the one depicted in Lore Olympus are highly likely to be toxic and dangerous to the weaker/younger half doesn't, itself, mean that LO is bad for trying to make a counterargument.

But the other posters say: yes, this kind of relationship is so toxic that there's no possible way to write positively about one without being Bad.

And I suggest, just because you disagree with art or find its themes repugnant does not, in itself, make that art Bad. Maybe there are some topics that are just so taboo they should never be touched, but I dunno, the universe of human relationships is vast and varied enough that I don't think this crosses the line. I can imagine there being a romance about a couple like this that has artistic merit.

And they say: I didn't realize "45 year olds shouldn't get romantically involved with a 19 year old under any circumstances" was a hot take.

And that's when I start to get Mad On The Internet and go crying into my tumblr.

[sammysdewysensitiveeyes]

“What was the thought process?!”

“I don’t know any more than you do, Shaw!  The Quiet Council put this mission together!”  Somehow, even when they should have been commiserating, Sebastian managed to make his complaints sound like accusations. Well, absolutely no damn part of this was Pyro’s fault.

“Of course, that pack of simpletons can’t be bothered to do things properly.  It wouldn’t matter if it was just you, but I will not be treated like a cheap lackey.”  

“Will you kindly shut the fuck up for five minutes, Shaw?”  Pyro demanded, looking at the map.  Sebastian, for all his complaints, had not deigned to take charge of it since they’d come through the gate 30 minutes ago.  “There’s the mountain.  Our contact should be somewhere around here.”

The mountain loomed dark and ominous over the grassland, with an actual black cloud obscuring its peak, like something out of a cartoon.  There was obviously something nasty up there that needed to be dealt with.  Strange dark tendrils curled down the rocky cliffs, and there were reports of eerie wailing at night.  It wouldn’t be Krakoa’s problem, except there was a mutant living nearby who refused to relocate to the safety of the island.  So they either had to deal with the problem, or convince the mutant to move out of harm’s way.

Except the mutant in question was nowhere to be found.  Just peaceful grassland as far as the eye could see, with the mountain swelling up from the landscape like an ugly blackhead.  Off in the distance, Pyro could see a group of horses grazing contentedly.  

“Our contact couldn’t be bothered to meet us at the gate.  We should have just turned around and gone home.  I don’t know why Krakoa should lift a finger for a mutant that refuses to come to us.  He chooses to remain on the outside, he should accept the responsibilities of – “

“Hey, fellas!”  A shout interrupted Shaw’s rant.

Striding up to them was the most heart-breakingly beautiful young man that Pyro had ever seen. White-blond hair, perfectly formed features, and obvious muscles bulging under his flannel shirt, he looked like he’d strode right off the cover of one of Pyro’s own novels.  Usually Pyro preferred his men a little more rugged-looking, like Dominic’s wonderfully rough features, but he was suddenly fantasizing about this young man emerging from a lake in a see-through white shirt.

Oh shit, what if he was a telepath?  What if he was yet another Frost sibling?  Pyro shoved the image out of his mind, and thought very hard about a Youtube video he’d seen earlier of a penguin falling over.

“I suppose you’re the contact?”  Sebastian demanded.  He was walking right up to Eros-given-mortal-form while Pyro stood transfixed, and it was like watching an ogre charge an elf.  Pyro had to fight the urge to leap between them and drive the beast back with a flaming sword.  He ran a hand through his hair, trying to inconspicuously smooth it down.

Fucking hell, Allerdyce, get ahold of yourself.  Shaw will never let you live it down.

“That’s right,” said the cup-bearer Ganymede, who would surely be carried off by Zeus soon.  Even his voice was beautiful, his Southern accent giving his words a musical lilt.  “Sorry I wasn’t right there at that big funny-lookin’ gate, I got worried about the herd.  Whatever’s up there is bad news.  I’d check it out myself, but I don’t want to leave the horses.  Who’d take care of them if something happened to me?”

“Yes, yes, of course you have a noble reason for cowardice,” Sebastian said, waving a hand dismissively.

“And anyway, it’s our job, that’s why we’re here,” said Pyro, stepping forward.  He realized that he had put himself just slightly between Shaw and Paris of Troy.  “We’ll get it all sorted out for ya,” he added, giving the young man a friendly smack on the shoulder.

“Well, that’s a doozy of an accent, isn’t it?  Where you from, England?”  Thankfully Prince Charming had missed, or chosen to ignore Sebastian’s completely unecessary dig.

“Australia, actually,” Sebastian interjected before Pyro could speak.  “And I imagine you’ve greatly offended Allerdyce’s national pride by mixing the two up.”

“Shucks, I’m sorry – “

“Oh, no!” Pyro exclaimed. “Not at all.  Very similar accents, easy to mistake.”  

“You’re the ones who say g’day, right?  Like Crocodile Dundee!”

“Yes, exactly!” Pyro beamed. He’d started bar fights over being called Crocodile Dundee.  Or being called British.  Sebastian raised an eyebrow at him.  

“I’m Pyro, by the way, and Oscar the Grouch over there is Sebastian Shaw.  You don’t have to be nice to him.”  He shook the young man’s hand.    

“Anyway, I’m your ride,” the Adonis said,with a shy smile.  “I can get you up to the top of that mountain, lickety-split.”

“Oh, teleporter, are ya? That’s right handy,” Pyro said.

“Or he could be a speedster, let’s not jump to conclusions, Allerdyce,” Sebastian put in.

“No, it’s something a bit different than that,” said the divine creature carved from marble and bathed in Apollo’s fire.  He shifted suddenly, his torso stretching and changing in a way that reminded Pyro of Mystique.  And then there was a winged centaur standing in front of them, and Pyro wondered if he’d fallen into Narnia.  Or maybe that one book, with the kids and the Tesseract.    

“My mutant name is Eques, but you can call me Danny if you like.”  Pyro tried not to gape.  Somehow, the winged horse form had made the other mutant even more attractive, and Pyro wasn’t even into horses…but he was starting to understand the teenage girl obsession with them.  “Danny’s” clothing had disappeared as he shifted (one of the X-Men’s unstable molecule suits, no doubt), and now he was….basically naked.  Horse form meant all the important bits were hidden, but still.  Pyro pinched the inside of his wrist very hard and tried to think about cricket.

“Oh, shape-shifting,” Sebastian said, sounding mildly bored.  “I suppose that’ll do.  But surely there are more practical…and larger things that you can change into.”

“I’m afraid not,” said Danny, biting his lip and pawing with one hoof on  the ground in a way that was positively adorable.  “It’s a very specific mutation.  I can turn into this and only this.  But don’t worry, I’m strong enough to carry you both.  We can fly up.”  He flapped his wings for emphasis.  

Sebastian rolled his eyes.

“Really?  Have we crossed over into some children’s cartoon?”  

“C’mon Shaw, he’s here to help us.  Of course, you can walk up the mountain if you prefer,” Pyro said.  

“Oh no, I wouldn’t dare leave you alone with him,” Sebastian said, smirking at Pyro, who scowled back.  “Who knows what you two would get up to?  Besides, it’s better than the hike.  Marginally.  Let’s get this over with.”  

Before Pyro could protest, Sebastian had lifted him up by the shoulders and plopped him unceremoniously on Danny’s back, then climbed on behind him.  

“Sure we aren’t too heavy for ya?  I know Shaw here must weigh a ton.”  Pyro leaned in to speak in Danny’s ear, and tried not to notice how centaur’s thick, shimmering hair, radiant in the sunlight and making Pyro’s own golden locks seem like tarnished brass, smelled faintly of eucalyptus.

Should I compliment his hair?  Maybe ask what shampoo he uses, pretend like I want advice?  God damn it, St. John, snap out of it and act normal!

“Not all, fellas!”  Danny exclaimed, with a bright, guilless smile.  “I’m strong as a horse, too, this is nothing.  But you’d better hold on as I take off, wouldn’t want you to fall.”  

“Where should we, uh….” Pyro faltered.  Much as he wanted to slip his hands over Danny’s muscular chest (for safety!) he didn’t want to be a creep.  Also, if he wasn’t careful, his….interest…would start to become noticeable in the most humiliating way possible.

“Oh, anywhere’s fine, just hang onto me as best you can,” Danny drawled.  Before Pyro could lift his hands, Sebastian reached forward, wrapping his arms around the centaur’s waist and squishing Pyro between them.  

“Get off me, Shaw!”  Pyro squirmed, pressed against Danny’s back, with Shaw’s massive, unyielding bulk behind him.  God damn it, he was now dangerously close to being caught between a rock and a….hard place.

“Stop whining, Allerdyce, this is the best way to ensure we both stay on.  I certainly don’t trust you to hang on with those weak arms of yours.  We are secure, Eques.  Proceed.”

“Why’d you even take the back, then?”  Pyro demanded, but his question was answered as Danny leaped into the air, flapping violently.  The wings beat hardest around Pyro’s head, powerful back muscles twitching uncomfortably against him.  Well, at least having Sebastian Shaw’s gross, sweaty body pressed up against him, smelling faintly of fuck-you Rich People Cologne, was enough to kill his would-be boner quite dead.  Especially with Sebastian’s no-doubt obscenely hairy crotch up against his rear, with –

Wait a minute.  What was that?!

“Shaw, what the hell?” Pyro turned slightly, but Sebastian gripped Danny tighter, pushing him back forward.  The hard object pressing against his ass shifted.

“It’s my cell phone, Allerdyce, for God’s sake.  No need to jump to conclusions just because you’re all hot and bothered.”  

Pyro wondered whether it was possible to set Sebastian on fire without hurting Danny.  Just a little bit on fire.  And then if he fell, it wouldn’t be Pyro’s fault, right?

“Gosh, this is kinda fun, fellas!”  Danny yelled above the roar of the wind.  “I’m always out here with the horses, and that’s just how I like it, but it does get kinda lonely.  I don’t get to see other mutants very often.”

“Well, I’m sure you’d get a warm welcome if you ever came to join us on Krakoa,” Sebastian said.  Pyro slammed an elbow back against him, but Sebastian just gripped tighter.

“Don’t even think about it, Allerdyce,” he said in Pyro’s ear.  “I’ll take you down with me, make no mistake of that.”  

“Say, Eques,” Sebastian called up in a louder voice.  “Have you ever met Emma Frost?  Let me tell you all about her, I’m sure you’d have a great deal to…discuss.”

Pyro fumed quietly, and fantasized about Sebastian smashing into the jagged rocks below for the rest of the trip.  

(OOC: I don’t know what Eques should sound like, but I saw he was from Texas and wound up writing him like Cannonball.  Since he’s always so isolated with his horses, I could imagine him being very naïve, but also very friendly.  

Pyro is intensely thirsty, and failing to play it cool, but can you really blame him?

I have no idea what’s on top of that mountain. Let’s just assume that Pyro, Sebastian and Danny are going up to Midnight Castle to fight Tirac with the Rainbow of Light, and if you understand that reference you win a million 80’s nostalgia points.)