#im sure theyve probably discussed the possibility of being parents once in a while but not like actually intended to conceive

[puppyeared]

gregnant

anton belongs to @poicyss

[comicteaparty]

April 4th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on April 4th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on Kamikaze by Alan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing Kamikaze by lan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook~! (https://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

my favorite scene so far is probably the huge long sequence that follows the bomb explosion and markesha is running away. i love just how real and down to earth that scene is. like markesha doesnt magically come to her destiny or just treat what happened is nbd after suddenly becoming a ninja. nope, shes runs, like a normal person would do regardless if they were a runner or not, and is pursued. everthing about this sequence really carried this tension. cause in this moment she was not some future superheroine. she was a young woman terrified for her life. and it just felt so relateable.

keii4ii

I have several favorite scenes. One of them is Markesha's confrontation with Franco. The intro to that scene is thick with tension; I love the juxtaposition with the radio/music and could see it play like a movie in my head! http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/kamikaze/pg-2-gatekeeper/ Not to mention how it ends. It's the first time something works out right(ish) between Markesha and Orson. Due to the circumstances, the scene leaves a lot of distrust to be resolved, but it was nice to see that first step of working together. It struck a good balance of tension and a truce.

RebelVampire

another scene im particular to is that scene where markesha is standing on the rooftops debating whether she should work with orson or not. not only is it beautifully illustrated, but i really like the juxtaposition in the story. like showing her other opportunity leaving the city without her. cause once that caravan leaves, its really a no way out declaration. markesha is trapped whether she wants to or not.

i do love the franco scene for how it painted the world. cause in the opening sequence i was like, "come on this is the post apocalypse he seems the type to be packing a gun." and then boop, he pulled out a gun and i felt vindicated XD

but i just really appreciated how the character really acted in the worst way possible per expectation of the world

Carrie Tupper

I think this is the first time I've EVER heard any compliments toward Franco, period. xD

RebelVampire

i mean the dudes dead. so umm, no sense on spitting on his grave

Carrie Tupper

Fair enough, but I'm sure Markesha wouldn't mind.

RebelVampire

nobody should mind hes dead. especially the runner who originally was supposed to take the package. now theres a person who lucked the heck out.

Carrie Tupper

Ha, as Orson would say: "Indeed."

keii4ii

Also not exactly a scene, but one detail I really liked was the "fresh wild meat" store with the live rabbits. It's a nice nod to the rabbit... metaphor...? thingie, but I loved it for the little mundane worldbuilding bit it was.

Carrie Tupper

OMG YAY

I'm so glad you notices that Keii4ii!

noticed*

keii4ii

It helped that I saw such stores near me when I was growing up

Fried chicken places with live chickens in cages

Carrie Tupper

That whole bit was thrown is as a bit of a metaphoric way of saying, "Markesha's releasing the story into the world herself whether she realizes it or not."

RebelVampire

i appreciated too the subtle world building it did too. cause it both demonstrates in a small way how desperate everyone is for food while at the same time showing how theyve made everything work and are still able to operate somewhat the same as before

Carrie Tupper

I think it's interesting that y'all zeroed in on the tension/action bits. Most people tell me the parts they remember the most are those between Markesha and Toshi.

RebelVampire

i like seeing markesha and toshi interact, but at the same time theyre father and daughter. so at the end of the day theres probably gonna be love and hugs and theres kind of a safety net there where their relationship is concerned.

meanwhile everyone else is ready to put a bullet in markesha's head

minus like 3 people

keii4ii

I'm partial to child-parent conflicts so I've been more interested in Markesha's situation with her missing mom than with her dad.

RebelVampire

and one of those whose name is orson i dont trust

yeah i do like the tension between them regarding the mom. that definitely is a highlight since theyre both handled it so differently

keii4ii

Speaking of her mom.... that little problem they ran into with her DNA clearance thing (forgot what it's called/ what page it was on) is totally not suspicious at all, no sir.

RebelVampire

ill be more keen on their interactions later cause toshi was the one who really wanted markesha to take orson's job. but he also seems the most likely to go "wait shes doing what i didnt approve of that"

Carrie Tupper

Hahah "blacklisted bloodline"

RebelVampire

so that seems like a potential argument later

nah nobody did nothing at all

just a typo

never heard of the nin family

QUESTION 2. After avoiding it for a while, Markesha does agree to help Orson’s group. Do you think Markesha is finally settled on helping the group, or will she continue to panic and try to run for it? How do you think her first mission will go? Do you believe the first mission will help cement her motivations for helping Orson, or will it scare her away again? What do you think will happen when Markesha’s father finds out exactly what she’s doing for Orson? Further, do you think the Razors will figure out Orson covered for Markesha and was actually the one to deliver the bomb? If they do, what will they do to both Orson and Markesha? Finally, how do you think Markesha will mature and grow over the course of the story?

mathtans

I'll be here to comment shortly...

RebelVampire

hi math! take your time~!

Carrie Tupper

I think my personal fave scene is the one where Audrey and Orson butt heads in the 2nd episode. She's totally not down for this, thinks it's a bad idea, and I think it says a lot about Orson that he'll take that kind of talk around him. Like...he's not so iron fisted he won't hear someone drag his ideas for the desperate moves they are.

Hi, hi, Math!

keii4ii

Yeah, Orson never struck me as controlling, just really adamant

RebelVampire

orson is one of those characters where i dont know if i should love them or hate them. but like in the good tense way that keeps me on edge. hes this perfect blend of being a cool dude while at the same time kind of being a jerk.

mathtans

Only made it through the first two episodes, but of those, I think my fave scene is actually when Markesha rubs the rabbit talisman and leaves, and beat panel, and then Toshi does after she's gone. The sort of thing that you could have totally skipped over, but gave much more weight to his character early on, in my mind.(edited)

RebelVampire

yeah that was a beautiful pause

cause it really said so much about toshi in that moment

and just non verbally explained why he was so insistent she rub it

cause its more a thing for him and his heart

than it is for her

i want to believe that markesha's panicking is kind of done in the sense shes just gonna run forever. i think though in that first mission she's going to be moving forward on adrenaline and saying shit a lot to get through it. however, i think once orson is back he can explain things better, and that will cement in her desires more. that and i think shell see the opportunity as a way to improve toshi's life at the end and stick with it for that reason.

i 100% think when toshi finds out he wont be happy tho

and then theyll have that argument

where toshi is like how could you

and markesha is like "hey you pushed me into accepting his deal"

mathtans

Okay, more or less here, catching up on the start. I guess I went for the more traditional. Though the bit with the mother is kind of heartbreaking. Though at the same time inspirational what with how close Markesha's become with her dad. And I totally missed the metaphor of releasing the rabbits.

A couple runner-up scenes... right at the beginning, where the elevator opens and it's full of security guys by accident. I thought that was funny. Also, well played, setting up this guy as the main character and it's actually his team that are the key ones moving on.

Second runner up scene... welp, if you know me, you KNOW I'm shipping Kamikaze and Flare, so yeah.

Carrie Tupper

Yeah... I may or may not get a lot of people mad at me about Jackal...

Shipping already? Wow xD

mathtans

Mad at you? I thought it was clever. A way of showing no one's safe, in a way.

I go for all the yuri ships, hinted or not.

RebelVampire

i do miss jackal. the character well never really get to know. but nah, not mad. i mean this is the post apocalypse and you cant have post apocalypse without showing the world can be...unforgiving

plus it raises the stakes for orson

cause now everything is riding on markesha

but like

no pressure or anything there markesha

mathtans

As to Orson, here's a crazy theory. His "trial run" was actually to see if a bomb could be delivered fast enough to not explode in transit. He's in league with the bomber, presumably indirectly.

(Did we ever find out what that trial was about?)

Carrie Tupper

Hmmm, there's a flavor of that theory I haven't seen.

The trial run in the beginning?

mathtans

I prefer chocolate over vanilla. Right, that one, the one Markesha was 27 seconds late for.

Carrie Tupper

Yeah, there's a page where Link asks Orson how the "courier angle" went

RebelVampire

see, the way i feel about orson, i cant say no to that theory. orson is a shady dude even when im cheering for him.

Carrie Tupper

The idea there was that Orson was throwing a hail mary that a courier could be hired to do the job, but her parameters were a little high for untrained runners.

mathtans

But what was he couriering, eh? Secret bombs, maybe?

Rebel: It's true. The guy removed the evidence of his gun and everything.

Carrie Tupper

Orson's a professional, he's not perfect, but he's defintely been in the game for a loooong time.

mathtans

As to Rebel's questions, I think Markesha's instinct is to run. I was honestly inclined to smack her upside the head for disobeying her father the way she did, when he was making sense. Can kinda see her point of view, mind.

keii4ii

He knows his priorities. Gotta respect that even if I may not agree with him sometimes

Carrie Tupper

One of the hard realities Orson has to constantly deal with is the fact that he can't control everything in the outer city. Doing his jobs a lot easier when you can leverage everyone, but the chaos of Outer Trinity is almost a force of nature that he's just kinda...gotta make the best of.

mathtans

I think she's destined to grow though, from what we've seen in the special later storyline bits. (cough Shipping cough )

RebelVampire

i like that mix where orson cnt control everything yet gives off this attitude that sure he can, hes orson. gotta admire that confidence.

mathtans

Incidentally, real interesting format, what with giving some tidbits about the city or characters underneath the page. I didn't get a chance to read them all.

Carrie Tupper

Charisma seen from outer space

mathtans

Orson seems very sure of himself - and his coworkers. Probably why, as Carrie said, he can tolerate things like Audrey's challenges.

Handy trait given the position he's in.

RebelVampire

tbf its not like audrey's points are invalid anyway. shes making good points even if she chooses to express them very aggressively.

though between the three i like link the best cause hes a breathe of fresh air who brings sunshine and comedy to the bleak and serious world.

mathtans

She is. Though given she seems to be the one who needs to activate the kill switch, she's got a more personal stake.

Link spies on young girls though.

Carrie Tupper

That's a unique viewpoint, Rebel! We don't have many Link fans.

Are there any moments in particular you like with Link?

mathtans

If I had to pick a favourite character, it might be Toshi. Not just because he's a writer, but because he's doing his best under crazy circumstances. And doesn't let his blindness stop him. (Also, my God, all the pathos for the issue with his wife.)

biab, little one's fussing.

RebelVampire

i dont know whether to applaud toshi's dedication to his wife or not. cause i mean loyalty is an admirable quality, but theres also a point i agree with markesha and its time to smack him into realizing she probably isnt coming back.

as for favorite link moments, probably the scenes at markesha's house. especially where he critiques audrey for how strong shes coming on...and then proceeds to come on very strong. besides being funny, i think its a good moment that shows he does basically just kind of his own moral compass for better or for worse.

but i also really liked the dialogue sequence between him and audrey that markesha could here

cause it really showed the vulnerability everyone is in atm

QUESTION 3. Despite having to work for Orson, there are many questions surrounding Orson’s work. Who exactly are Audrey and Link, and how do you think they wound up working with Orson? Who exactly is Orson? What are Orson’s personal motivations for participating in the project? For that matter, why is Orson so hated and blamed for what happened to the Cornerstone family? What do you think happened to the Cornerstone family exactly, and how might it tie in to the story? Also, who is Orson’s boss? What are they trying to accomplish as far as changing the balance of power goes? How are they trying to accomplish it? Lastly, what do you think was in the canister seen at the beginning of the comic?

ShaRose49

Idk what to think about Orson, I can’t tell if he’s good or bad. Leaning more towards good though. My fav thing about this is that it looks like an animated series and the father-daughter relationship is a pretty good one and I feel like I don’t see that very often so kudos to you guys for that

Carrie Tupper

Thanks @ShaRose49

ShaRose49

No prob!

mathtans

Back briefly. I feel like Toshi not wanting to leave isn't simply due to his wife though. When you're blind, and living in a place, you kinda know where everything is. Having to leave would suuuck.

ShaRose49

It’s inspiring to me cause I’d like to be involved in animation as well someday

@mathtans I agree

RebelVampire

but not wanting to leave when your daughter is being hunted by the local gang is borderline insanity XD

ShaRose49

Oh yeah

mathtans

(I'm not at the bit where Link/Audrey go to Markesha yet, so no comment on that.)

Except dude was providing an alternative to that. Just saying.

Carrie Tupper

@mathtans You're quite right. It's complicated for Toshi. There's most DEFINITELY an edge of "I won't leave her," but there's also the complications of leaving in both a mental and physical way. He's lived there forever, had memories built with his family, and leaving means he'd have to re-learn layouts all over again. That can be stressful and painful for someone who can't see.

mathtans

As to the latest question, maybe Orson's boss is one of those people vying to fill the vacant seat at the council chambers.

RebelVampire

but toshi wouldnt even consider leaving till markesha super forced his hand. and to me thats the point where it reaches obsession cause hes willing to trust is some rando stranger and risk his daughters safety just on the .000001% chance his wife is coming back and because eww change. and while i empathize with toshi, that is a moment where i felt hes just being a bad dad. cause his own pain is more important than the life of his daughter

mathtans

And as to the canister, I'd say it had seeds or something, but it was apparently super heavy without the suit, so that doesn't jibe.

Rebel: Fair point about the stranger trust thing. But there were some logical arguments in there too. I guess there's layers of opinion.

biab again

keii4ii

I like Orson. He seems like he genuinely believes what he's doing is the best option for many in a crappy world, and accepts the shady aspects of it as a necessary price. There's a lot about him that's yet to be revealed, so maybe I won't agree with his endgame, but I still see an inherent value in that... belief in a non-self-centered goal.

ShaRose49

@Respheal yeah he’s definitely not perfect

Got some issues

RebelVampire

i definitely think hes a good guy and has a non-self centered goal. that being said, bending the rules can...corrupt your moral compass. so if at the end hes an antagonist, i would not be surprised

also wrong tag there @ShaRose49

XD

ShaRose49

Whoops!!

I musta slipped

My bad

Respheal

o_o

lol, s'ok

ShaRose49

Oh heeey, we were just talking about you!

Carrie Tupper

xD

ShaRose49

Accidentally!!

RebelVampire

seeds would make the most sense there where the cannister is concerned. as for the heaviness, well that couldve been more from the cannister itself than whats in the cannister.

keii4ii

I am very sorry because this is a terrible, terrible idea, but "if at the end he's an antagonist" just made me imagine him becoming a Final Boss a la that nanomachine boss from the Metal Gear Solid series.

Carrie Tupper

Oof. I gotta keep my mouth shut here, but y'all got some interesting ideas about Orson. xD

RebelVampire

maybe whats in the cannister are the secrets to weather control cause you never have to worry about the crops again if you can control the weather

mathtans

Back, mostly. That's a good take on Orson, keii4ii.

Incidentally, I notice we're only, like, 15 years from the "end of the world" as far as the story chronology seems to go. Yikes?

Carrie Tupper

15?

RebelVampire

its okay keii i pictured him in about 20 different video game boss forms when i said that XD

keii4ii

omg

Carrie Tupper

Just put glasses and a half vest on EVERY boss xD

mathtans

The tag line says "what happens when the world's first superheroine shows up two hundred years after the end of the world"... and I thought I saw a date marker of, like, 2227 somewhere.

(Someone's birth year? Mirage? I dunno.)

Carrie Tupper

Year is 2235

2235 - 200 years is 2035

mathtans

Okay, so wasn't totally imagining it. That means 200 years ago was, like, shortly in our future.

Carrie Tupper

Da

mathtans

We're in trouble.

Carrie Tupper

....Da

mathtans

Da da da daaaaa.

RebelVampire

tbf this is not the worst of post apocalypses

i mean there is some semblance of order

and cities

mathtans

There's still bureauocratic jerks too. That whole "you're blacklisted but hey, keep applying and giving us money" shakedown annoyed me. In the good way of clever writing because I can see it happening and they're jerks.

RebelVampire

yeah i really like in general political bs hasnt gone away. cause thats very true to life.

mathtans

Related, kudos on establishing that Logan guy in the council as a total waste of oxygen within, like, two panels (as he went off about girls asking for it). Get bent.

Carrie Tupper

Logan is basically every jerk I've ever known brought to life.

It's cathartic in a way.

RebelVampire

im gonna take a stab in the dark at orson's motivations. i think the cornerstones essentially got murdered in a mysterious raid that im sure no other high ranking family had anything to do with. and that for better or for worse, orson got blamed because someone always needs to be blamed. and orson blames himself but he also recognizes how the system is flawed. so he wants to change the power dynamics by changing hte food system or something. cause food does seem to be the controlling factor here.

mathtans

It's nice to have a clear villain character somewhere. The kind that's too moronic to actually take over the world though.

RebelVampire

maybe thats what logan wants you to think. that hes too dumb to do anything. when really he is the shadow puppet master

Carrie Tupper

Hmmm! All interesting ideas

mathtans

Rebel: That's a good theory. Maybe being the scapegoat also twisted his morals a bit, he figured I might as well do some of the shadier things like killing people.

Rebel: Logan could be a puppet, that's for sure. But not a master, unless the real master wants him to think so.

RebelVampire

you know who i dont trust? lionness heritage. if i had to pick anybody who ruined the cornerstones, itd be her.

Carrie Tupper

Oh? How come?

mathtans

Rebel: The fact that the world ended with "the Withering" implies to me that food is definitely a key element.

Carrie Tupper

Quite right, @mathtans

mathtans

Hm, don't think I've got to the lionness yet.

Carrie Tupper

She's a trip.

RebelVampire

because she seems smart enough to know how to politics and is so far the one most interested in changing the power structure. and just the way she offered the crop things in a backhanded blackmail way makes her rub me in all the wrong ways. like, she kind of gives me the same impression orson does. where shes doing good while also being shady af. but in her case her motives are way more self-interested, so the self-interested plus the shady are a dangerous combonation(edited)

Carrie Tupper

Makes sense.

RebelVampire

tbh i would not be surprised if she was orson's boss, but actually fooled orson into thinking she wanted to do good things for everyone.

mathtans

Oooh, interesting theory.

Carrie Tupper

She's not a person to trifle with

Constance will have to be careful.

RebelVampire

but i do like constance. i hope she and markesha meet and become the ultimate duo. the one who politics and the one who works in the shadows.

QUESTION 4. Besides the major plot points, there are quite a number of politics and world issues about. Who are the Outlanders, and why are they disliked? Assuming Markesha’s mother was an Outlander, how did she wind up with Markesha’s father? What do you think ultimately happened to Markesha’s mother? Do you think Markesha and her father will find out during the story? How might it affect them? Less personally tied to Markesha is what’s going on in Halo. Do you think Orson will get out of his captivity? If so, how will it come about? Will Lionness Wright take Cornerstone’s seat High House seat? What is Lionness’ Heritage interest in Lionness Wright taking it? At last, do you think there is a chance one of the Cornerstone’s lived?

Carrie Tupper

@mathtans I have to admit I hope you'll comment through the next bit of story. The team and I would very much enjoy seeing yours or anyone else's reactions in realtime

mathtans

(Is there more Kamikaze and Flare? )

Carrie Tupper

(It's coming I promise, but it'll be a bit!)

All very good questions you've posed @RebelVampire

RebelVampire

im hoping we get to learn more about the outlanders. cause i mean namewise, obviously they are ppl who live outside the city. but at the same time, they mention that yellow eyes are a trait. and you dont have a shared trait if youre just ppl outside the walls.

mathtans

I admit, I'm real bad with geography in real life. It's worse in fantasy novels and comics for me. I remember there were three gates. That's... kind of all I got.

Oh yeah, the eyes. Though not all Outlanders.

RebelVampire

i didnt study the geography that hard this time, admittedly.

maybe toshi met his wife via some writing work? like doing some journalistic investigation on the lives of outlanders

mathtans

Started looking at Episode 3. Clever way of having the storm info playing in the background. Reminds me of how Toshi was looking at the news to give us backstory in an earlier bit.

Carrie Tupper

The geography of the city is pretty basic, but for reference...

RebelVampire

oh thats nice they have a river

very smart

Carrie Tupper

For reference Markesha's mom = Cassie

mathtans

Markesha really likes jumping to conclusions, doesn't she. Also, selective memory.

RebelVampire

ok cassie. i knew shed been named but i couldnt remember it

Carrie Tupper

Hey many she just got kinda blown up give her a break xD

RebelVampire

to be fair markesha is i think 19? thats basically still a kid and that is kid-like behavior

Carrie Tupper

Yep, in the scene with Rio she said she turned 20 in a week.

Happy birthday~ Markesha

mathtans

Oh, I'm not faulting it. Just, perhaps especially as a teacher, I roll my eyes.

Carrie Tupper

One of the things I have to catch myself in a lot when reading anything is the memory of the character doesn't always match our own, especially if said character wasn't present at or had certain information communicated to them

mathtans

Also kind of impressive how every page has it's own title. That's attention to detail. (I do it, but that's only because they're all 4-panels.)

Carrie: Truth.

RebelVampire

maybe cassie was involved in some espionage. like maybe she married toshi just to have a cover so she could spy for outlanders. and then when her mission was done she left. or ya know, was viciously murdered. which i would be amazingly surprised if she was alive. i dont buy into the characters' hopes. i feel shes just been gone too long for it to have been anything else.

Carrie Tupper

lol, Alan and I beat our heads against the wall EVERY WEEK to make sure we haven't reused those titles. xD

mathtans

biab, little one fussing.

Carrie Tupper

Cassie's fate is at this point unknown to everyone, but I definitely know her fate and do my best to sprinkle it in

In fact there's a lot of things I sprinkle in through the series. Like the fact Julain shows up WAAAAAY before book 3.

RebelVampire

interesting

Carrie Tupper

https://i0.wp.com/kamikazeanimated.com/comic/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/pg_05.jpg?w=900

mathtans

Back. Yeah, I have a text file of titles. If I think of one I'm not sure of, I simply do a search.

RebelVampire

omg thats such a sneaky appearance too

mathtans

Cassie was actually a time traveller!

Carrie Tupper

hahaha xD

RebelVampire

but also makes me picture on one page somewhere theres a hidden newspaper article that readers "many year long cold case of murdered woman in alley still not solved! read the story on page 4!"

mathtans

Damn. Nice foreshadow.

Carrie Tupper

Mmmmmaaaybe

One of my goals when writing this is to leave little things for return readers to find and enjoy

that way when they re-read they notice new things, and the experience is fresh in a different way

RebelVampire

thats always a good thing to have. especially when it things like that where you smack yourself in the forehead cause you didnt realize a character had already appeared before

mathtans

Yeah, that's awesome.

RebelVampire

off topic to that but like http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/kamikaze/pg-1-moving-day/ how can anybody not like link after looking at this page? look at those beautiful and jovial expressions minus the adorable pout

Carrie Tupper

Orson's little sneer at the tablet being waved in his face always makes me smile

mathtans

Interesting about a panic switch, didn't expect that arrest. They didn't even read his rights.

Carrie Tupper

...y'all have a really positive view of the Trinity justice system

mathtans

I live in hope. The romantic in me.

RebelVampire

yeah i think thats math there. im even surprised they didnt just gun them down and go "whoops they slipped into my bullets"

mika

oh we're talking about something that i do not know

mathtans

Markesha staying in one place for calibration? Yeah, good luck with that.

Rebel: Point.

Carrie Tupper

Hiya mika!

RebelVampire

this is the channel for our thursday book club chat. were talking about kamikaze http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/ @mika

especially orson. i for sure orson would get shot cause man is there a lot of hate for orson.

so really insofar

their treatment has been better than i expected

Carrie Tupper

That's fair

mika

oooo

mathtans

Orson looks really different without his glasses.

Carrie Tupper

I guess ultimately the HSF knows if they do anything to hurt Orson they'llhave to answer to the High House LEOs and...well

mathtans

He's got some pull still.

Carrie Tupper

I'm not sure who I'd want to answer to less in that situation

Fun note: The shot where we see the other inmates via Orson's view is directly related to how blurry people look w/o my glasses on.

mathtans

Okay, one last theory... the canister at the start held some of the "Withering" disease in storage, that people were studying. They want it in order to create a vaccine/cure, but others are fine with the world the way it is.

I am very with you on that. My prescription is high.

mika

im going to try reading it! im always looking for more webcomics to snatch

Carrie Tupper

I hope you'll enjoy it @mika and feel free to comment on the pages! The team loves chatting with our readers

mathtans

(Made it to the end of Act 1 atleast.)

Carrie Tupper

haha xD

mika

oof im guilty of not commenting enough

Carrie Tupper

Act 2 is insanely long, so I'm sure it won't take any time for you

RebelVampire

i really loved that blurry shot. as a glasses wearer, that is a detail so many comics do not capture. that yeah, without glasses, ppl cant bloody see that well.

Carrie Tupper

Yep. I also needed to establish that for later shenanigans

mathtans

(I'm actually a pretty slow reader. I'm also bad at keeping up with things. Even my own websites.)

RebelVampire

and the cannister containing a copy of the disease is interesting, math. although sounds extremely dangerous. like...jackal did not treat that cannister with enough care if thats whats in it XD

mathtans

I wonder if we'll get much from Toshi's point of view then. Could save the artist some time.

Carrie Tupper

omg right?

I have thought about having a dream sequence for Toshi

where all wee see are the 'sounds' he hears

mathtans

Jackal seemed pretty sure of himself and not inclined to listen to advice though.

(I wonder if that was a code name, like "Rabbit"?)

Carrie Tupper

It was.

mathtans

Well played.

Carrie Tupper

If you look at the "list of affiliations" on Orson's file that we did, you may find him hidden in the list

mathtans

Good job all around, as far as final words go. The amount of worldbuilding behind the scenes is damn impressive, you get the impression that it's only the tip of the iceberg being shown.

RebelVampire

that would definitely be an interesting experience. to see the world as toshi sees it, metaphorically speaking.

mathtans

(I'm baffled about how it could have been goofy in the conception, it's pretty serious now, I think.)

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to lan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook, as well, for making Kamikaze. If you liked the comic, make sure to support everyone’s efforts however you’re able to~!

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[lovelesswiki]

Post-Moonless predictions— Septimal Moons’ endgame (10/10)

previous part<–[end]

for the last week or so, i’ve been talking about a large theory i’ve been writing. since finishing it, i’ve decided to publish it in parts, since it’s actually about 10 different theories all on one subject. since it’s all written out, i’ll try to be publishing one part of this per day.

essentially, this is a set of theories about what i believe will have to happen in order to properly lead up to a climax–the one we’ve been building up to for years and years now. so, these are what i theorize will happen after the first moonless vs beloved battle, broken up into ten different parts. each theory is explained and theres images for each one.

table of contents (bolded is the post you’re looking at):

moonless and beloved will rematch (1)

soubi will fall into a deep depression and possibly become suicidal (2)

ritsuka will arrive at seven voices, SM’s activity will be revealed (3)

SM will reveal that there was a mole in their organization (4)

kio will be the one to take ritsuka to goura (5)

ritsuka will find things out about soubi and the aoyagi family (6)

SM’s true purpose will be revealed. ritsuka will have to make a decision about good vs evil (7)

seventh SM member will be revealed (8)

nagisa will find out what really happened to sanae (9)

ritsuka will be asked to join SM to fill the aoyagi seat (10)

Theory: ritsuka will be asked to join the septimal moon council and will be faced with the choice of either leaving his childhood behind or letting the council fall apart without him. he will not make this choice by the time of the rematch.

this is the last point im making here, because everything else anything after this will be preparation for the rematch. there’s no other exposition to be had, and the story needs to lead to a climax (or at least, one of many) after this. the mysteries and loose ends need to be tied up and put to rest because anything after this has to be new information or focus on new relationship dynamics (ie seimei and ritsuka wherein ritsuka views seimei as ‘evil’, soubi and ritsuka wherein soubi is actively suicidal)

something that’s pretty heavily ignored in loveless is the fact that SM has been after ritsuka since the beginning. it actually wasn’t ritsuka who started going after them first. SM sent teams after ritsuka and didnt seem to know that he’d have soubi with him, hence why they sent breathless, a very low-level team that was not equipped in the slightest to go up against soubi and ended up getting crushed by him–twice.

in total, four teams were sent. breathless, who were battled twice, sleepless, male zero, and female zero, all increasing in difficulty. fearless was sent by seimei and nisei and beyond that, all the battles that follow are a direct result of the incident at seven voices. SM specifically sent four teams, though.

–and what’s more is that septimal moon sent those teams to retrieve ritsuka. not to kill him.

the logical conclusion is that SM wants something from ritsuka. the stipulation with the teams seems to be that if ritsuka’s team loses, then they ‘capture’ him and return him to SM, rather than killing him, sending him away, or leaving him alone. this is confirmed later on, when in wisdom resurrection, ritsuka is asked to come to goura. this is even further expanded upon when they get to goura and ritsu and the others seem to want something to do with ritsuka and how nagisa talks with seven about how ritsuka has finally arrived. this is all interrupted, though, of course, by ritsuka’s older brother barging in on the party and making everything go to shit and effectively putting off whatever it was that SM had to do with ritsuka by gorging out the eyes of a member, ‘kidnapping’ another, kidnapping soubi’s best friend, wrecking school buildings, hurting students, and stealing 30% of the data that SM had. obviously, SM had to do damage control after this instead of conducting a meeting with ritsuka about things.

in one of my previous points, i talked about how there doesnt seem to be an age limit when it comes to SM, as mikado is 14 and seimei was 17, and both seem to have been on the council for a few years. who’s to say that a 12 year-old couldn’t be on the council? it actually seems plausible to me, considering the facts.

the fact of the matter is that aoyagi is an open seat currently. even if hes not dead, seimei has been completely removed from the council.

septimal moon is an organization. a council. they vote on things. they need seven members on the board to run correctly, or else one of the sectors/branches isn’t getting run by someone. right now, theres a seat that no one has. and that seat belongs to the aoyagi family, who happens to have a son who has never sat on the council before, is alive, and is a sacrifice. he fits the requirements, and SM has been trying to meet with him since the beginning of the manga.

what im trying to say here is that the most logical course of action for septimal moon is to ask ritsuka to take the open seat on the council.

theres nothing else SM can do. seimei has a death warrant and is the cause of every single problem the council is having right now and the person who had the seat before him is either dead or retired, and i doubt you can have the seat back if you meet either of those two conditions. SM needs that first seat filled, and maybe part of their dysfunction as a group is that they dont have a full council and are missing a seventh member. regardless, theyve been trying to fill this seat for a while now, and now, in the timeline ive set up for these predictions, ritsuka is back in goura and there’s no better time to ask him to take the seat than now, when he knows about the history of the board and the purpose of the council and what the responsibilities would be.

the very last thing that needs to happen before the climax of the story (or the first of many) of ritsuka confronting his brother and soubi, is ritsuka being asked to replace his brother.

this means a lot of things for ritsuka.

first, up until now, ritsuka’s been a bit different from other sacrifices we’ve seen, but not in the same way that seimei is ‘different’ from other sacrifices. biologically and powers-wise, ritsuka seems to be the same as any other sacrifice. however, there is one caveat: ritsuka is very clearly rooted in the ‘normal’ world. he goes to normal school, partakes in normal activities, and has normal friends. up until now, hes been a total stranger to the fighter-sacrifice world. for the entirety of his life that he can remember (a whole 3 or so years), ritsuka has lived a fairly normal life (aside from the horrible abuse at home) without magical violent people in it. because of this, so far he has not functioned well in the fighter-sacrifice world and does not seem to share the same societal expectations and ideals that most people in that world do.

soubi, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. soubi knows nothing other than the fighter-sacrifice world and for as long as he can remember, aside from his foggy memory of his parents, has partook only in that world. it’s his entire life, and his entire identity. soubi has lived a life where people have always been hostile and violent towards him and hes always had to be the same for them (the source, i suspect, of soubi’s notoriously short temper). because of this, so far he has not functioned well in the normal world and does not seem to share the same societal expectations and ideals that the majority of people do. he is completely inept outside of the fighter-sacrifice world and occasionally seems frustrated or depressed that he’s not like other people and can’t be like other people. this will come into play at the end.

making this decision would mean that ritsuka has to step out of the normal world. he can still function in it a bit, but not like he used to. the council would become his life, and he would become extremely important to the fighter-sacrifice world and have a lot of responsibility on his hands. he would have to trade his identity of being a regular elementary school/middle school child in for being a government council seat holder. he would no longer be allowed to live the life he currently leads.

going along with that is the second problem: ritsuka would have to grow up.

as i stated above, ritsuka would be forced to give up his identity as a child and take on enormous responsibility. he’s a mature kid, sure, but this goes beyond that. ritsuka would have to completely trash his childhood and go right into adulthood and go to a place where he is treated like an adult all the time without having time to gradually grow up and get used to it. he’d have to do it all at once, and he’s have to learn very quickly, and he’d be throwing a huge part of his childhood away.

i want to bring this back to soubi again, because soubi didn’t have a childhood, either, and it was because he was forced to grow up fast to take on the responsibility to be a tool to be used by someone else for their own purposes. soubi did not have a childhood. his childhood ended the day his parents died.

im sure you can probably see by now where im taking this.

this is a huge decision to make, and i dont expect ritsuka to leave goura having made it. i expect him to want to seek counsel from someone who’s had a lot of experience with SM, but is not part of the counsel, as well as having been in the world their entire life. someone ritsuka actually trusts and someone hes able to actually get advice from.

hes going to try to seek advice from soubi.

this is assuming soubi is still alive at this point, which might be a 50-50 chance. if he is, soubi is going to urge against it as much as he allows himself, too. soubi wants out of this world. he’s discussed retiring. he’s discovered a family. he has people he enjoys being around. and ritsuka becoming part of SM would cause him to be wrapped right back up into everything he wanted to get away from.

and his reasons arent all selfish, either. he sees ritsuka’s everyday life. he can probably figure out that ritsuka needs a childhood and he would be miserable if he left his place in the normal world. so he’s going to urge ritsuka not to do it.

then ritsuka will be left with a choice that is his to make.

the way it is now, SM is dysfunctional enough that it’s bound to quickly fall apart. theres a chance–a good one–that regaining a seventh council member would mend the broken enough to make things work again. things could get back into working order again and the fighter-sacrifice world would remain as is.

as is, ritsuka’s normal life is good, aside from his mother. he has friends. he has a chosen family. he does well in school. hes happy.

so either ritsuka can choose to let SM fall apart, or he can choose to give up his happiness.