#im sorry that you all are haters and cannot appreciate a complex character

[monzterzack]

i think we all moved away from talking about pearl shapeshifting to look like greg too soon

i think we all should collectively stare at this for some more time and fully internalize this

and what it says about pearl and what it says about rose

i think people dont see rose as a person anymore because they are projecting their mommy issues on her, but like… this is some fucked up shit to happen to you as a person

we forget she did all she could with the skills she had at hand

rebecca, REBECCA TELLS US MORE ABOUT ROSE

[wizzycore]

the thing about karamelle is that it tries to have 2 separate plots going on at once and it fails. the Cabal plotline (the disappearance of the Old One) and the Corporate plotline (the strikes and unions and propaganda and whatnot). The plots are so utterly disconnected. You can explain one without even mentioning the other. as a young author, i can tell you: that is BAD WRITING. Things need to connect. Plotlines must be weaved together like rope, not simply placed side by side like hay.

like, at least Zafaria's individual plot (finding the missing students) connects to the overall plot of Arc 2 (stopping morganthe), because Morganthe actively split the students up and kidnapped the Prince to recover something that'd aid her in her own goals. As you quest through the world you slowly discover how deep her influence runs, and slowly piece together her plot. It builds her as a villain, albeit only subtly.

oh yeah for sure like this is mad well written, (your ask i mean) i just really fucking hate zafaria because im a hater. im sorry to morganthe im just a little hater. idk something about fighting the elephant guy a billion times and also the weird way zafaria gets treated by the narrative (whitely) just makes me not like it.

see heres the thing i actually had a BETTER time there in zafaria than im having so far here. also thank you everybody for being very courteous about not spoiling the dip-end of karamelle for me! i appreciate u all very much for being careful.

anywho, you're exactly right! hell i didn't even think about how much the two plots do not mesh at all i was too busy burning with rage about the way yw was absolutely just jerked around thruout it so far.

OH, yeah, so! LOOOONG rant below. ill just cap it under a read below. here we go.

soooo MY personal gripe with the writing of karamelle so far is just....... it both assumes the player is extremely smart and extremely stupid -- things that have been explained by characters (example - GRETA) in one moment is immediately ignored for the next 20 quests because the story assumes you didn't read it, and makes the wizard look like a total idiot. but THEN, because we no longer have the anchor of a narrator (which, though it doesn't, in my heart makes this feel sooo much messier), we're left to try and divulge information from so many unreliable narrators, so often that we're left with genuinely Nothing to work with in EITHER plot. I *really* wanted to be a part of both plots! I gave them both such a chance! And the old one/cabal plot TRIES to be a faux-murder mystery, but it doesn't follow up on that because it drunkenly falls into the unionizing plot (i.e the frankly obnoxious half-truths that von trap seems obsessed with dropping before leaving) instead of delivering meanful information to the player!!!!!

there was one moment where i genuinely said, "okay, yw cannot be doing this, are we hypnotized right now?" and my friend said, "no, but i appreciate your leaps to try and make this make sense", and then seconds later we heard a piece of dialogue that genuinely made them think "no, maybe you're right". i just. god. this world seems like it had such good BONES, is the thing!

i think another place where this paradoxical player is smart/player is stupid blunder occurs is in actually just the delivery of the themes of the unionization plot. every post ive seen so far seems to talk about this the most LOL. like........ the themes could NOT be more hamfisted. its sort of as though they expected that the market they were writing for in arc 1 had to suddenly digest themes with a level of complexity that the audience for arc 3 was used to. except arc 1 writing was literally more complex than this.

ACTUALLY, i take that back. the writing in karamelle IS complex -- but i mean that INCREDIBLY derogatorily. the writing is complex because its convoluted, because we're handfed so many dead-ends and lies in the haste to try and MAKE the player understand that this is a propaganda driven society (DESPITE the fact that in the past "propaganda" such as the old one existing in the first place or, say, grandfather spider being real (stretch) were true) that the story just handwaves away from the INCREDIBLY obvious, child-media level of obvious, themes and tries to direct the player towards some bullshit they won't need 10 levels from then, just in an ATTEMPT at complexity.

not to stan empryea, but im going to compare really quickly to the nimbus section of empryea. nimbus has the same bones as karamelle does. two groups, both giving false information, interfering and fucking with the player at every moment. but from the MOMENT you enter nimbus you can feel somethings off (and, actually, we in my discord server were somewhat dissatisfied with how long it took to uncover what we had already figured out) (and secondly, it's less in your face than karamelle. good lord.) and the buildup is TANGIBLE. the discovery of clues as to what happened to sparck and his parents, what side people are truly on, and what their plans are, are CONSISTENT. they are SOMEWHAT SUBTLE. and they build up to something EMOTIONAL and IMPORTANT to the PLAYER (bat!! the chains!!). nimbus does, admittedly, do its share of thinking the player is stupid -- but it doesn't IMPEDE the story. the red herrings given are distracting but in a way that makes sense narratively.

AND!!!! the themes of the effects of militarism, the conflict between science and religion or magic, the themes of blood and what that means, they aren't as CRAMMED down the players throat. you are free to interpret the events, to understand them and what they mean underneath the setting, and most importantly to understand what they mean for the player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AUGHHH!!!! and the only time they fail at this is sacrificing complexity for comedy (niles) (but its funny so it gets a pass).

karamelle, i gotta say, takes all the minor flaws of the nimbus storyline and cranks them up to ten, and then adds a couple more on for good measure.

and (my last rant point) karamelle just. Isn't Enjoyable. Even if you look past all of the story blunders, even if you look past the age old "ah, the first world of any arc isn't necessarily going to be perfect", even if you look past the INCREDIBLY crammed in theme conveying.... karamelle isnt fun!!!!! the (as my dnd dm friend says) railroading is a constant frustration, the locations are dreary (purposeful, yes, but to push a point the audience ALREADY UNDERSTANDS!!!!!), and it feels as though you can take no action that counts whatsoever. your hand is dragged by von trap more than your hand has ever been dragged before. all of the folktale and fairytale references are simple headnods at most and never incorporated very much into the story, and the locations that are fun to look at you never stay in very long.

i understand that the story is meant to be heavy, but the khrysalis storyline is said to be the heaviest one ever executed, and yet you feel engaged and BOPPING to the storybeats all the way through. (well, if you can get through all of the quests.) (luckily, in a pure force of hyperfixation, i stayed engaged and boppin the whole time). and, i realize that this may be a reaction to what fans felt were what they liked least about, say, mellori -- the excessive comical relief. well, in karamelle, i feel as though they struggled to find a middle point. not just in comedy but in immersion, in creativity, and in the level of enjoyment the average player might have.

soooo. yeah.