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illfoandillfie · 5 years ago

Text

Curtains Part 6

Series Masterlist

Pairing: Roger F!Reader

Summery: Exams, a car show, and an entirely too long wait.

Warnings: Smut (18+), nothing overly kinky, a little bit of a dom/sub dynamic, dom!rog, some light degradation, a little breast/nipple play,fingering, honestly quite tame considering the shit these two normally get up to lmao

Words: 7129

A/N: Oh my god its finally here. The last chapter. I am so sorry it's taken so long but it's been super busy around home and whenever I did get a chance to write I got very worried I was going to balls it up and ruin the whole story lmao. Anyway, I've really loved writing this series and these characters and I hope you enjoy the last part!

Also the British International Motor Show was a real thing that really was held at the Olympia. And Roger did eventually own a Ferrari and a Mercedes, although as far as I know not a Rolls Royce (that was Freddie’s).

Taglist: @laedymoon @dtfrogertaylor @ezmina98 @vee-ndetta @atomic-watermelon @kellypenac @labessieisallama @deakyclicks @jennyggggrrr @drowseoftaylor @hannafuckingsucks @i-cant-hangout-im-drumming @queenmylovely @supersonicfreddie

@bohemiansweede @rogershoe @lnnuend0 @funitrog @moonlit-wilde

The exams hit you hard. Most nights were spent at the library, staying as late as possible before you dragged yourself home and collapsed on your bed, the morning alarm always coming too soon to start the whole thing over again. The biggest downside of the routine was how little you’d been able to see Roger since it started. When you had managed to catch him he looked as tired and stressed as you felt, neither of you capable of talking for too long before one of you yawned or remembered you were meant to be revising. It filled what little space in your brain that wasn’t already full of anxiety about exams with anxiety about your relationship. You still weren’t entirely sure how solid things with Roger were. They were certainly at a better, more normal, place after your two dates and a not-quite-a-date at the markets. Freddie had spent the entire first half hour you were there eyeing you suspiciously, as if you were going to bolt suddenly or tell him off. He stopped eventually though and you’d had a lovely day, helping to sell a few items when you weren’t wandering around with Roger looking at other stalls. But everything still felt so new and uncertain, especially after the rocky start you’d had, which left you not entirely positive you were officially a couple, and now you couldn’t help worry that the forced distance would make Roger lose interest in you or set you back a few steps after all the progress you’d managed. It didn’t help that you were on edge from not getting laid recently. The last time had been an age ago, in the backseat of Roger’s car. You would have slept with him again at the markets, or more likely after you’d gone home, except your period had started the day before and you couldn’t bring yourself to suggest having sex like that. So, since then you’d been on forced celibacy with only the end of exams to look forward to. Sure, you could have masturbated but between the hours spent sitting the exams and the hours spent cramming for them, you never seemed to find time for it. It all added up to a rather unpleasant desire crushed beneath a lack of sleep and a constant voice in the back of your head telling you that you were fucking something up. Unhelpful for cultivating a good mood or an opportunity to convince Roger to come over for a quickie. In fact, you barely saw him until the day after his final exam.

Feeling slightly better rested since you were free from needing to regurgitate months of class notes, you walked up next door’s driveway and knocked on Roger’s door. “Y/N, what a pleasant surprise, come on in,” Freddie said as he opened the door, “all done then? Exams I mean,” “Yes, thank god. You?” “Yeah, I finished earlier in the week. Never been more relieved in my life, although the day Rog finished was a close second,” he led you through the cluttered living room, your eyes slipping from the old, worn couch to the record player by the phone, into the kitchen where Roger stood, a bowl of cereal in his hands, eyes out of focus as he stared off into space, “Rog, wake up darling, the girl you’ve been whining about is here to see you.” Roger blinked, tired eyes falling to you and pulling a smile onto his face, “Y/N,” “Hey Rog,” He hastily put down the bowl and pulled you into a hug. You sighed into him, mind already more at ease than it had been when you arrived. “How were your exams?” He asked when he finally let you go. “Oh y’know, okay I guess. Probably failed one of them but I’m beyond caring right now, you?” “Yeah, yeah, all good I think. I’m just glad to be able to sleep normally again. Kept having this dream about turning up to an exam naked and then realising it was the wrong subject anyway.” “Jesus, Rog, if you’re going to sit here dissecting your dreams again I’m going to have to leave.” “You call yourself my friend,” “And aren’t you lucky for it. Just remember to wash out your bowl this time,” Freddie grabbed the cup of tea he’d been making and exited with a wave that you returned. “Was that because of me? Does he still not like me?” “He likes you fine, I promise,” Roger grabbed your hand and led you out to the living room, “I’ve just been driving him nuts these last few days.” He dropped onto the couch with a creak and pulled you down onto his lap. “Nuts how?” “Oh y’know, exam stuff mostly. Weird little rituals I started doing to make sure I passed, like, um, I had to wear a particular pair of shoes to every exam, my sparkly silver ones, otherwise I was convinced I would fail. Nearly had a breakdown when I couldn’t find them one morning. Stuff like that.” “Would the other stuff be related to his girl you’ve been whining about comment?” “Maybe,” Roger looked away, as if slightly embarrassed to admit it, “I might have kept bugging him with questions about whether he’d seen you around. He went right off at me the other night, told me to pull my head in and just go see you but it was one in the morning so,” he shrugged as he trailed off, still focused on the other side of the room. “You really thought about me that much?” “Yeah, course,” he finally looked at your properly, “I missed… hanging out with you,” “Me too,” you smiled shyly, trying to work out if hanging out was a good sign or not. You decided to continue with the plan that had brought you to his door that morning, just in case, “But, if you’re up for it, I have an idea of something we could do tomorrow.” “Oh yeah? Does it involve making out a lot?” “I guess it could,” “Consider me there,” You laughed as he took hold of your chin and pulled you into a kiss. Maybe it was a good sign after all.

If Roger hadn’t broken off the kiss to yawn three different times, apologising after each one, you would have been hard pressed not to end up in his bed. He wasn’t quite as worked up as you were, admitting he’d developed the habit of wanking on the morning of every exam he had, but he was still eager for more than just making out, encouraging you to roll your hips and grind against him. But he was clearly too exhausted. “Where’re you going?” he asked as you wriggled off his lap and stood up. “You’re dead on your feet Rog, you should go catch up on some sleep,” “I’m not, come on come ba-“ he was cut off by another yawn. “See?” “Okay, fine. Maybe you have a point. But you don’t have to leave, you could come nap with me and then when I wake up in a couple of hours we can continue this, but tucked up in bed.” You laughed, “Nice try, Rog, but I’m gonna go home, let you rest properly. We’ll have all of tomorrow though. I’ll come by at tenish okay?” “Tenish it is. Can you give me a hint about what you have planned?” “No but I promise you’ll enjoy it.” “That could be anything,” he said as he walked you to the door, tilting his head and resting it against the frame. “Exactly. Don’t want to spoil it. I’ll see you tomorrow,” you made to leave but Roger caught your hand and pulled you back against him, leaving you slightly breathless, lips tingling with the kiss. “One for the road,” he shrugged, trying not to grin too much. “Go get some rest Rog,” you laughed, “Oh! And wear comfortable walking shoes tomorrow,” “Walking? That doesn’t sound like making out.”

You only had to knock once the next morning before Roger was opening the door, looking excited and better rested, though there were still heavy bags under his eyes. You’d seen the same bags on your own face but, thankfully, makeup covered a multitude of sins. “So, will you finally tell me where we’re going?” “No but if you don’t mind driving, I’ll instruct you where to go,” “You’re kidding me! You aren’t going to tell me anything but you want me to drive?” he narrowed his eyes and stared at you but you just smiled sweetly back until he relented, “good thing I like you so much or I woulda told you to shove it up your arse.” “You’re the best Rog,” you giggled, swooping in to kiss his cheek, “promise it’ll be worth it.” “Yeah yeah, get in the bloody car,” he shook his head but you caught him smiling to himself as he got into the drivers seat. “Your gonna need go left out of the driveway,” “I am, am I?” he said before following your instruction and turning left. You directed him there with only one minor detour when Roger managed to get stuck in the wrong lane and missed his turn. A few streets away from your destination he saw a sign directing passers-by to visit the British International Motor Show, glancing at you out of the corner of his eye, but he said nothing, just let you tell him where to go. You could tell he was getting more excited with each street you directed him down, trying not to get his hopes up as you seemed to creep closer to the show. The dam burst when you told him to pull up in the carpark of the Olympia. “No fucking way,” he said softly, trying to concentrate on not hitting any other cars as he pulled into a spot, even as his eyes darted around the crowd of people entering the venue, “You got us tickets to the motor show?” “Mmhmm,” you nodded, digging around in your bag for your pre-purchased tickets, “you mentioned on our last date that you were a bit of a rev head so I thought you might like it.” The way he looked at you made your whole body feel like it was infested with a swarm of butterflies. It was a look of barely contained glee and adoration that had you beaming right back at him. Once he was out of the car he hurried round to your side, pulling you into a hug and spinning you around in a circle as he squeezed you tight. “Christ, Y/N,” “I guess that means you like it?” you laughed as he put you back on solid ground. “Like it? This is the sweetest thing a girl as ever done for me. Might actually be the sweetest thing anyone has ever done for me. As if I needed more reasons to fall for you.” Your breath caught in your throat and the swarm under your skin went haywire but Roger barely seemed to realise what he said, too excited and impatient to see the show. He grabbed your hand and pulled you towards the entrance.

Most of the day was spent wandering around the show, Roger almost bouncing from one car to the next. There were all sorts to see, some brand new and unveiled that morning, some the kind your parents had driven around in as teenagers. There were more economic models, aimed at families or young adults looking for their first car and some were high end, luxury models with sleek designs and shiny finishes. Those were the sort that caught Roger’s eye most, never mind the outrageous prices you couldn’t even dream of affording. It was while standing in front of one of them, a gorgeous black Rolls-Royce from the mid-60s, that you nudged Roger with your elbow. “Y’know how when I first saw your Morris I said it wasn’t the type of car I imagined you in?” “Yeah,” “This is the sort of car I was picturing.” “Really? I’ve always loved a Rolls. Them and Ferraris. As a kid I used to have pictures of them ripped out of magazines and stuck up on my bedroom walls. Well, them and about a hundred other cars,” he chuckled at the memory and then fell silent for a bit, lost in thought, absentmindedly squeezing your hand. You were about to ask what he was thinking when he spoke again. “One day I’m going to own one.” “Are you now?” “Yup. One day Queen’s gonna hit it real fucking big. I’m not just saying that either, I mean it. We’ve really fucking got something the four of us, and one day we’ll have the number one song in the country and sell so many albums I’ll be able to buy one of each, a Rolls and a Ferrari. Maybe a Mercedes too. And I’ll take you out in them, wherever you want to go. We could drive down the coast, spend the weekend in our beach house. Or maybe out to the countryside, nice and peaceful and quiet. And if we stay at home I’ll take you out shopping. We’ll go to all the high-end stores and buy everything we want. Shoes and jewels and fur coats and everything." You leaned your head on his shoulder as he spoke, “That sounds wonderful,” “You haven’t heard the best part though,” “Oh?” He dropped his head down, lowering his voice so only you could hear him, “Haven’t even mentioned how I’ll fuck you in the change rooms of all those fancy shops. A hand over your mouth to keep you quiet because we both know how loud you get.” It was a mark of how long it had been that you began panting just from feeling his breath against your ear, “Looks like this car has enough room in the backseat. Just in case the shops are closed.” He stood up straight again, laughing, “Maybe we’ll sneak in there later. Shame I’m not rich already, could’ve just paid off the security so he’d give us a few moments alone with the car.” You knew he was joking about sneaking into the car but it didn’t help you calm down at all. Roger must have sensed your need, had probably been able to feel it seeping out of your skin, because he spent the rest of the day teasing you with small touches and whispered comments. He may have given up the teasing and just fucked you except that the number of people and the amount of security hired kept you from finding anywhere even remotely appropriate. The bathrooms were too crowded, extra portaloos hired and placed around the side of the building to accommodate everyone, and the back of the building faced the carpark and had a constant stream of people passing by or standing around directing traffic and loiterers. You considered suggesting the backseat of his car again but your head and thighs ached at the thought. After a final quick look around inside you decided to call it a day and head home where there was plenty of space and a big comfortable bed waiting.

By the time you arrived home it was early evening, your feet sore despite wearing your most comfortable pair of shoes. Roger’s stomach grumbled as he walked you to your front door, a loud reminder that neither of you had eaten more than a few snacks vendors had been selling at the show. “I had so much fun today,” he said, valiantly ignoring his stomach, “like an unbelievable amount of fun.” “Me too. Didn’t realise a car show could be quite that good,” you teased, “You wanna come in? Keep the fun going? We could get dinner, watch some TV,” “You’ve spent all day with me, sure you aren’t sick of me yet?” “Course not. Come on you sound like your starving and I’ve got a coupon for pizza stuck to my fridge,” “Well who am I to say no to that?” he said as he followed you inside, “where’s the coupon, I’ll call the order in.” “You don’t have to do that,” “No, no, let me. Least I can do to thank you for today. Any preferences?” “Uh, pepperoni if you don’t mind,” you called from the kitchen, returning with the coupon and handing it to Roger. “I definitely don’t mind, pepperoni is obviously the best,” Roger laughed and picked up the phone, as you quickly ducked into your room and made sure it was tidy. He followed you when he was done, peering into the living room and the kitchen as he searched for you. “Don’t have to clean up on my account,” You jumped a little at the sound of his voice behind you. “I’ve been in your room before, you’re much neater than me.” “Surprised you noticed the room enough to make that judgement,” “True, was always much more interested in you and how little you were wearing,” “Exactly,” you said, trying not to let on how fast your heart was racing at just the mention of the previous nights you’d spent together. “But I’m very messy,” Roger shot you a grin as he walked over to your desk, fingers brushing lightly over a few of the knickknacks you kept there before he moved to your modest bookshelf. You weren’t quite sure what to do with yourself as you watched him investigate your belongings, perching on the end of your bed, hoping he liked what he found. For the most part he just brushed his fingers lightly over your belongings, smiling softly and occasionally pausing to make a comment. He picked up the candle from your desk to smell it, complementing the scent as he put it back in its place. A few of the books on your shelf were pulled off and held up as he asked your opinions of them. He found a pair of your sunglasses and pushed them into his own face, checking himself out in your mirror before taking them off again, and then turned his attention to your record collection, spending much longer examining it than anything else. When he was done shuffling through the stack, making impressed hums when he found ones he particularly liked, he turned back to you. “Well I’m sorry to say but you have fantastic taste in music and I really have no other choice but to steal half of them,” “Is that so?” you asked, releasing a relieved breath, “Doesn’t seem fair,” “Well,” he walked the few steps towards where you still sat, leaning down until his lips were mere centimetres from yours, “it’s either that or you keep them and I fall madly in love with you.” The butterfly feeling returned, “Oh?” It was all you could manage to say. A loud knock from the front of the house interrupted you. “That’ll be the pizza,” you said quietly, torn between answering the door and closing the space between you. The decision was made when Roger’s stomach growled again. He dropped a quick kiss to your lips and then stood up with a small sigh.

If it had been up to you the night would have been spent snuggled up on the couch, eating pizza, drinking wine, and goofing around, until you retired to the bedroom and let the street hear you screaming Roger’s name. And you were pretty sure Roger’s mind was running along the same tracks. The only obstruction to your plan was the lack of sleep you’d both been suffering from, causing both of you to nod off before you could move from the couch. You woke in the morning, the TV no longer playing the comedy it had been left on but a test pattern card with odd organ music behind it. You blinked the sleep from your eyes as you tried to remember why you were on the couch and not in your bed, the night coming back to you as you sat up and realised you’d been curled up with your head on Roger’s thigh. He woke with a start when you stood up to stretch and turn off the TV. “Y/N?” he voice was still thick with sleep, eyes bleary and hair all over the place as he lifted his head from what must have been an uncomfortable position. “Sorry, didn’t mean to wake you. We fell asleep on the couch.” “Oh, right,” “You can go back to sleep if you want,” “Nah, ‘m up now. Bathroom?” “Just through that doorway over there.” Roger nodded his thanks as he yawned and, rubbing his eyes, headed off. You grabbed the last of the, now cold, pizza and the wine glasses and followed him towards the kitchen, dropping the leftovers on the bench before turning to stick the kettle on. When he returned to the kitchen he looked marginally more alert, hair not quite the bird’s nest it had been when he woke. He dropped a kiss to your temple. “D’you want breakfast?” you asked, peering into the fridge, “I can do eggs on toast.” “Only if it’s no trouble,” “Not at all,” you grabbed the carton of eggs and the butter before you closed the fridge, “if you make the tea.” “I can do tea. Make a pretty good cuppa if I do say so myself.” “So you’re a tea connoisseur now?” “Never said that, where do your mugs live?” “Cupboard on the left,” “Ah ha,” there was a tinkling as he pulled out two, “All I’m saying is I’m good at making tea.” “Rog it’s adding boiling water to bagged leaves, not sure you can be bad at it,” “Well tell that to John. He’s a fantastic bassist but Jesus every cuppa he’s ever made me has tasted like shit.” You laughed, glancing away from the stovetop to watch Roger move about your kitchen like he belonged there. True, that might have been to do with how similar your kitchen was to his, most of the student accommodation in the area having the same basic layout, but it was nice all the same. “How do you take it?” “Uh,” your first thought was something entirely too inappropriate for so early in the morning, “dash of milk, two sugars,” “Coming right up.”

“So,” you said, dragging the word out as you brought your plates down to the table, Roger already there with the mugs of tea. “So, what?” Roger imitated your lengthened word, an amused lilt to his voice. “Dunno, you got any plans for today?” “Meeting the boys a bit later, band stuff. Might try and squeeze in a nap at some point. No offence but your couch isn’t overly comfortable to sleep on, although the cute girl using me as a pillow did help,” You giggled as he nudged your foot with his, it really was unfair how attractive he looked even when ruffled from a night on the couch. “What about you? Any plans?” “Oh, uhhh,” you didn’t have anything specific but couldn’t very well tell Roger you’d kept the day open in case he’d wanted to stay in bed with you for the better part of it, “Think my friends said something about going out for coffee, so I’ll see if they’re still keen for it.” “Oh yeah? Do these friends know about me?” “They know I’ve kind of had a thing going on and they know I was avoiding a particular guy for a while, but I haven’t, like, actually told them about you yet. Wanted to wait until I knew we were going to be okay, y’know?” “Yeah, I get that.” There was a moment of almost silence, the only sounds those of your knives and forks scraping across your plates. Your brain was suddenly much louder than it had been a second before, full of thoughts about whether or not you should tell your friends about Roger when you saw them, nerves about theoretically introducing them to him and then, oh god, introducing him to your family, having to meet his, all the stuff that a proper relationship would mean, all the stuff you’d been trying to run from when you’d cancelled that date. But there wasn’t really any way to go back now without everyone getting even more hurt than last time, he’d twice now said he was falling for you and, though you hadn’t vocalised it, you thought maybe you were falling for him too. But of all the thoughts jumbled in your head, the loudest by far was the realisation you’d be going another day without getting laid. It was torture. You’d got so close last night and god you wanted it so much. You had a brief vision of sweeping everything off the table, plates and cutlery hitting the floor, and Roger instantly pushing down your pants and lifting you onto the clear surface, his fingers slipping into your underwear and - Roger broke the silence and pulled you from the fantasy, “If you wanted you could come over tonight. I’ll make you dinner,” You shook your head to clear it, “really? “Yeah, really. I’ll even let you rummage through all my junk like I went through yours,” “Sounds fun, I’ll be there,” “Cool, uh, I think I should get home around three-thirty, so any time after that.”

Roger helped you tidy up the dishes before he left, another lingering kiss your souvenir, in addition to the desperate need to get off. You attempted to kill some time doing just that, but nothing seemed to be enough. It wasn’t Roger. You wanted Roger. And as lovely and terrifying a sentiment as that was, it did mean you had to go to meet your friends completely worked up and wet. When you told Roger later, sleepily blurting it out while curled up in his arms that night, he chuckled and, though it was dark, you could tell he was grinning. The same grin he’d been wearing when you knocked on his door that afternoon. “Is Freddie here?” you asked as he led you towards the couch. “No, just us. I’ve kicked the others out for the night. Freddie’ll end up staying with Bri or John, they were still arguing about it when I left them.” “Arguing?” you fell into the seat beside Roger, toeing off your shoes and curling your legs up under you, angling your body to face where he was leaning against the arm of the couch, one leg bent in front of him, one touching the floor. “Something about John’s girlfriend, I think, or maybe it was Brian’s roommate? I don’t know, I didn’t hang around to listen, they’ll sort it out,” he waved his hand dismissively, “But that means more food for us.” “So what are you making me then?” “Well, actually,” he glanced away, hand slipping into his shirt to rub his shoulder, “was thinking I’d order some takeout. There’s really nothing to cook with in the fridge and I’m a terrible chef anyway. I could offer you toast but the chance of it being edible is about fifty fifty. But there’s the chippy a few streets away or, um, an alright curry place, whichever you prefer.” “Fish and chips sounds good. I’ve eaten nothing but cake and coffee today so anything savoury would be brilliant really.” “So your friends were free then? How’d it go?” “Yeah, really fun. You might have been mentioned once or twice,” “Only once or twice?” “Once or twice is practically unstoppable gushing for me. They’re both insisting on meeting you, by the way, so that’s something to look forward to I guess,” you scrunched your nose up in discomfort. “I’d love to meet them,” he said, taking your hand leaning towards you, “And you’ve got nothing to worry about, they’ll love me. I’m very loveable.” You let yourself relax as you laughed, Roger joining in as he pushed a strand of hair behind your ear, fingers trailing down your jaw, kissing you softly.

It should have come as no surprise that you’d end up making out within minutes of arriving. The weeks since you’d last slept together plus the unfulfilled tension from the previous night all boiled down to a neediness you couldn’t remember feeling with anyone else, the soft kiss fast becoming firmer as you found yourself underneath Roger, fingertips digging into his back. He was grinding against you rhythmically, your skirt pushed further up your thighs, trying to pull you tighter against him, breathing getting more ragged with each passing moment. It felt good but there were too many clothes in your way, you needed more. A whine fell from your lips unexpectedly. “Someone’s a bit desperate,” Roger said, tone vaguely mocking, giving you just a hint of the teasing control he usually showed you, “should we move this to my room?” “God yes,” He grinned and planted another kiss against your lips before he pushed himself to his feet, pulling you up by your hand, not letting go until you were standing in the doorway of his room. It was similar to your own room in that it faced the back yard, a big glass door leading outside. The biggest difference was the curtain, open to let the sun in but no doubt it actually existed. Roger dropped your hand to cross the room and you turned your attention to the rest of it, tempted to rummage through his belongings the way he’d examined yours. If you hadn’t been so worked up you would have but instead you stepped into the room and glanced around, killing time until Roger was back against you. It wasn’t neat but it wasn’t as messy as you’d been led to believe it would be and you wondered how long he’d spent tidying it. The bookshelf wasn’t full and yet not all the books were lined up, some of them stacked in uneven piles, some leaning against others, no discernible order to them, though you could spot a few titles you recognised from your own collection. His desk held a stack of textbooks and a few loose pages of handwritten notes, and you could easily imagine him hunched over as he studied, scribbling down things he recognised as important even if his tired eyes and brain couldn’t fully comprehend them. Your gaze had just fallen on the neatest part of the room, his collection of records all meticulously lined up and just begging to be rifled through, when a noise drew your attention. Roger checked the back door was locked and drew the curtain over it, blocking out the view of the back garden and the natural afternoon light. Your stomach did a flip. “We, uh, we’ve never had so much privacy,” you tried to make it sound like a joke, though you weren’t sure you succeeded, suddenly feeling too nervous to speak properly. “Yeah, s’pose that’s true,” he gave a small half shrug and took the few steps towards you, stopping just in front of you, “but that’s okay. We’ll make it work,” and then his lips were on yours, the rough neediness almost forgotten as he held your face, reassuringly rubbing his thumb over your jaw. It helped you relax again, stoking your desire though you couldn’t help thinking things would be vastly different with an empty house and closed curtains. Your fingers fell to his belt, blindly struggling to unbuckle it, but Roger grabbed your wrist. “Hey, there’s no rush, okay?” “I know but it’s been so long,” it wasn’t a lie, it had been far too long, but that wasn’t the only reason you wanted to speed things up. You didn’t mention that you were nervous about your dynamic changing with the privacy, worried it wouldn’t be as good if you weren’t being controlled or degraded or performing for someone. “So you won’t mind waiting a little longer then,” You whined as his lips brushed over your neck, his hands still holding your wrists, “Please, I need you,” “Patience, love. First time I’ve had my slut all to myself, can’t blame me for wanting to take my time.” Your breath hitched at the name and the casual way it was said, not expecting to hear it when you were so closed off from the world and he was being so deliberately, infuriatingly, slow. It made your head spin. He let your wrists go, moving his hands to your shirt and pulling it up over your head, fingers trailing softly down your sides to toy with the waistband of your skirt. “Good girl for wearing this, you’re learning.” The praise made you shiver but it was nothing compared to his touch. Every light brush of his fingers made you want him more, had you almost vibrating with need, but he refused to speed up or even touch you where you most wanted him. And you melted into it, hovering on the edge of begging, surprised at how easily he could play you but not really surprised at all. Yes, it was just you and Roger with no one to see or overhear, none of that tension you loved so much that came with the possibility of being walked in on or caught out. But you didn’t miss it.

Your hands once again slipped to his belt and this time he let you undo it, taking the chance to tug his own shirt off as he kicked the discarded pants across the floor, before he slipped your skirt down your legs, kneeling as he did so, leaving a single big bruise on the inside of your thigh. He leaned back to admire the mark and you stepped out of the material pooled around your feet. For a fraction of a second you thought he was finally going to give you something real, his breath ghosting over the front of your underwear as he leaned towards you, still looking up at you, blue eyes glinting. “Hop on the bed, love,” He chuckled as he pushed himself to his feet, listening to you whine and curse even as you did exactly what he told you to. You didn’t stop complaining until his weight was over yours again, your legs trying to wrap around him and pull him against your throbbing cunt. He just held your legs down and laughed softly, “You’re still just a desperate slut aren’t you. Little bit pathetic how much you want me after a couple of weeks without. But no, you don’t get my cock that quickly. I told you I want to take my time.” “You want me too,” you whined, sounding nowhere near as convincing as you’d hoped, “I can feel how hard you are.” “Yes, I want you. Of course I do, love, been thinking about it since you came over the other morning.” Roger resumed the grinding he’d started out on the couch, dragging his cock along your folds, still too many layers between for you to be satisfied. It was torture, but no matter what you tried he wouldn’t give you more, “But there’s this little thing called delayed gratification, you might have heard of it.” “You’re such an arsehole,” you half whined, half laughed as he chuckled into your neck, doing his best to leave you with another mark. “Well, yeah. That’s not news. Maybe I’ll let you have my fingers though, since you have waited such a long time,” “Please, I need something, anything,” “Add ‘begs easily’ to the list of things I love about you,” he left a kiss against your neck and then shuffled backwards. He paused, glancing down to your underpants and then back to your chest. “What?” “You’re still wearing a bra. Can’t have that.” “Oh,” you giggled, “easily fixed,” you sat up and quickly unhooked the clasp behind your back, shrugging it from your shoulders and adding it to the clothing that littered the once clean floor. “Thank god for easy fixes,” Roger said softly, pushing his fingertips against your shoulder until you leaned back far enough for him to drag his tongue over one nipple. “Hey, you said fingers,” you whined. “You said anything,” he grinned back at you, “but I guess fingers could work too.” You hissed when he pinched your other nipple and pulled on it, gently biting on the first, “Rog, please,” He ignored you in favour of dipping his lips to the inside of one breast, sucking at the skin until another purple bruise formed.

Roger shuffled back further and you squirmed at the thought of finally, finally getting what you needed. Just the motion of him hooking his fingers into your underpants to pull them down had your stomach tightening with anticipation. As soon as they were free of your legs he held them up, “soaked,” was all he said before they too were discarded and he was settling into place between your legs. You could feel his warm breath against your pussy as he dragged a single finger between your folds, a whine escaping you as your frustration grew. And then the finger was slipping inside you, so easily it made Roger whine himself. “God you really are soaked. I was just teasing before but Jesus,” “M-more,” was all you could think to say, stuttering it out as you bucked your hips. “Patience, love,” he reminded you but added a second finger, pumping them into you slowly, still not enough. Your back arched as you tried to readjust your position so he’d hit the spots you knew he could but he just placed his other hand on your thigh, stroking you softly until you relaxed again. “Tell me what you want, love,” “More, please,” “More of the same? Just my fingers?” “N-no no,” “Then tell me,” “Your cock, please, want you to fuck me now,” the sentence devolved into a whine as he pulled his fingers from you, pausing to push off his underwear, and crawled back up the bed, hovering over you. Once again you tried to wrap your legs around him, arms around his neck to pull him closer, but this time he didn’t stop you. Instead Roger lined himself up and sunk into you, as easily as his fingers had, his hands slipping up to your sides. He dropped his mouth to your neck and then your jaw and then your lips as he slid his arms under your back to hold you tight. “My good, patient, girl. Fuck your cunt feels so good.” he said softly, quickly finding your lips again as he fucked you steadily. You whimpered at the praise, finally getting what you’d so badly wanted as you clawed at Roger’s back, making sure he wouldn’t pull away too far. Though he’d started off intentionally slowly, deliberately working you up before he’d even finished undressing you, now that he was finally inside you, finally where you both wanted him to be, he’d lost all of his methodical pace. His hands were on your back and then one was on your arse and then your breasts, unsure where he wanted to touch you most. He was kissing you passionately one moment and the next he was whispering filth into your ear, praise and degrading names alike, thoughts broken up by small hickeys sucked into your skin. The second it occurred to him that something might drive you wild he was doing it.

It didn’t take long for you to cum, so much pent-up desire coursing through your bloodstream that you fell over the edge easily when he hitched your leg higher on his hip. It changed the angle he was hitting you just enough to have him rub against your wall, a jolt running through you and stealing your breath. “So pretty when you cum, can you show me again?” You nodded, unsure you’d be able to form words if you tried. Small aftershocks were still making you whimper into Roger’s shoulder and yet you could feel the same tingly warmth building again already. “Oh,” the sharp sound escaped you when Roger’s thumb brushed over your clit, his breath hitching as you clenched around him, “Rog, god, ke- keep doing that,” He brushed your clit again and smiled as your head fell back, a low moan tumbling from you when he began rubbing it properly. All you could hear was rough uneven breaths, not sure they were yours or Roger’s, the sound dulled under your heart beating in your ears. And then suddenly you were there again, moans getting louder as you crept closer to the edge and fell over it. Roger’s eyes were squeezed shut as he thrust into you a few more times, extending the ecstasy you felt until he hit his own climax, coating your walls and gasping in your ear.

For a while neither of you moved, just lay there trying to clear your foggy minds. When he realised he was still laying on you, Roger carefully extracted himself and rolled onto his back, an arm stretched out, inviting you to cuddle up close. You did, humming lightly when he gently rubbed your arm. “So, was that good? Even with the closed curtains?” “Mmhmm, might go so far as to say unbelievably good.” “Any other adjectives you wanna throw out there? Mind-blowing maybe? Or Incredible? The best you’ve ever had?” When the giggles subsided, Roger continuing a little more seriously, “I really liked it too, y’know, having my girlfriend to myself and all.” You’d been expecting to feel anxious when the G word eventually got used. After all, it represented so much of what had made you nervous enough to run away, what still made you nervous about dating and what it might eventually lead to. But there wasn’t really any anxiety or worry when you actually heard it, maybe a small pang in your stomach but you barely noticed it. Instead you could have sworn your heart skipped a beat, “Girlfriend?” “Yeah,” you could hear the smile in his voice, “that okay?” You quickly flipped onto your front, bringing you face to face with Roger, “More than okay. Say it again?” “My girlfriend,” he grinned as he spoke and you felt an equally large smile stretch your own cheeks in response. “My boyfriend,” “Yeah, like the sound of that,” You kissed him hard, not quite believing how far you’d come since he’d first caught you masturbating or how much you liked being with him, dating him. “Y’know, I think we could fit in another round before we need to worry about dinner,” he traced his finger along your shoulder as if he were playing connect the dots with the hickeys he’d left you, “Two maybe. You always cum fast when I use you rough.”

#my writing #roger taylor smut #roger taylor x reader #roger taylor imagine #(lowkey have a couple ideas for blub/hc things maybe #)

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darkblueboxs · 5 years ago

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howdy i love your aftg writing!! here’s a concept: i feel like once neil’s past is out, he has no reason to hesitate absolutely sucker punching someone. like we know he made neil a pushover because it raises less questions, but now that everyone knows who he is im SURE he’s just bitch slapped someone mid-game. no holding back, like if u say something fucked up he’s just gonna try to kill you!! do you know who this man is?? there’s no doubt in my mind that he knows some quick and lethal punches!

Oh yes, anon. Bruiser!Neil I can DEFO get behind.

Here’s 3k of Neil punching stuff, and Andrew being wildly turned on by it. Read here or on AO3 (Check AO3 notes for content warnings, etc.)

*Edit* : In the original version of this fic, Nicky faces racist abuse in addition to homophobic abuse, and quotes the offensive language and slurs used against him. After concerns were raised regarding how I handled this abuse (specifically, the language used, the context in which the abuse takes place, and my position as a non-latine) I censored and subsequently removed the relevant dialogue. I sincerely apologise and promise to do better in the future. Please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions and concerns regarding this subject.

[01/06/2020]

All the Guys Love a Bruiser

Neil’s mother taught him how to throw a punch, of course she did. Their lessons took place anywhere spacious enough to swing a fist, in empty parking lots behind greasy gas stations or in dingy motel rooms if she thought the walls were thick enough to cover up the noises they made.

Mary had always been more flight than fight, an instinct she had forced into Neil over years of running. Even she had to admit, however, that sooner or later they would hit a dead end, and while that would spell certain death for both of them, it would be better to go down fighting than it would on their knees.

If their lessons ended with Neil aching black and blue, it was his own fault. He needed to be quicker, smarter, crueller. More like his mother.

Matt’s teaching style is different from Mary’s, as is his fighting style. It bears the hallmarks of professional athleticism, all stances and positioning and strategy. While his mother’s idea of a lesson in self-defence was to hit Neil until he figured out how to dodge her blows or hit back, Matt talks him through how to angle his body, how to make a fist in a way that won’t break his fingers. At the end of their first boxing lesson, the only bruises on Neil’s body are the light purple spreading across his knuckles.

That evening, he and Andrew take over the beanbags, TV muted in the background while they dig into ice-cream. The tub is pleasantly cool in Neil’s hands, and he rubs his knuckles against the sides like an improvised icepack. When the residual cold has melted away, Neil flexes his fingers, enjoying the faint tingle dancing across them. These marks are different from those his mother gave him; they weren’t inflicted on him unwillingly but earned with sweat and exertion. When Matt had let go of the punching bag and told him they were done for the day, Neil had been surprised by his own disappointment. He had never been sorry see the end of his mother’s lessons.

Andrew takes his hand suddenly, startling Neil from his thoughts. It’s a purely analytical touch; he turns Neil’s hand over and runs a finger across the blossoming bruises of his knuckles.

Neil bites back the I’m fine, knowing the look it would earn him. Instead he says, “I had fun. We’re meeting again next week.”

Andrew nods. It’s a few moments more before he relinquishes Neil’s hand, however. The heat of Andrew’s skin mingles with the singing twinge of Neil’s bruises like an after-print.

Next week, Andrew slouches into the gym after Neil. He ignores Matt’s invitation to join them, flopping onto a rowing machine and leaning back against the machinery so he can kick his feet up on the seat rail. They’re lucky that they chose unsociable hours for their workout, or a line of athletes would be forming to glare at him.

Andrew watches them train from across the room with apparent disinterest. He can feign boredom all he likes; Neil knows he wouldn’t have bothered following him to the gym without reason.

Matt, if anything, seems amused by Andrew’s presence. “Dan comes to watch me practice sometimes, too.” He pauses to correct the angles of Neil’s feet before nudging his arms into blocking positions. “She did it even before we started dating. She used to sit on an exercise bike and pretend she was cycling so I wouldn’t know she was there to watch me. It was never very convincing.”

“Why did she want to watch you?” Neil shifts his weight, trying to copy Matt’s position.

Matt’s face crinkles up with laughter. “That’s the most Neil thing you’ve ever said.”

“Everything I say is a Neil thing.”

“She liked it when I took my shirt off. C’mon, man, join the dots.”

“You don’t take your shirt off to box.”

“Yeah,” says Matt. “Don’t tell her that.”

Neil rolls his eyes. “Can I hit you now?”

Matt barks out a laugh, and training resumes.

“Enjoying the show?” Neil asks Andrew an hour later, dropping down on the gym mat next to him. Andrew hands Neil his water bottle with an unimpressed look.

“You’re awful.” Andrew flicks a look over to Matt, who is using their break to chat with the only other gym regular insane enough to be working out at the crack of dawn on a Sunday. “He could knock you on your ass with one right hook.”

“I know I’m awful. That’s what training is for.” Neil pauses to gulp down most of the bottle. A droplet escapes his lips and tracks down his jugular before falling into the dip of his clavicle. Andrew’s eyes track its path. “Matt isn’t going to hurt me. Is that what you’re worried about?”

“I’m not here to babysit you.”

“Huh.” Neil drains the last of the water before shaking the residual droplets over his head. The beads glint in the corners of his vision as they catch in his bangs and fleck his cheeks, mercifully cooling against his skin. Andrew is still watching him intently. His eyes flick to Matt once more, checking that he is still absorbed in his conversation.

“Yes or no?”

“Yes,” Neil replies, and he watches as Andrew takes Neil’s hand in his. The skin is flushed from strike after strike, not yet coloured in bruising patches but soon to be. Neil’s hands feel softer for it, sensitive to Andrew’s touch.

“I know my limits.” Neil isn’t sure why the gym suddenly feels three degrees warmer. “Really, it doesn’t hurt.”

“I know. I trust you.” Andrew sends one more look over Neil’s shoulder like he’s checking the coast is clear before pressing Neil’s knuckles to his lips.

The breath Neil was in the process of catching slips from his grasp entirely. “Oh.”

“Stop looking at me like that.”

“You like watching me fight.”

“It’s more interesting than watching you run.”

Neil leans in until he can see each individual freckle on Andrew’s cheeks. “Interesting?”

Andrew’s cool look is betrayed by the twitch of his jaw. “Something like that.”

If Matt notices Neil’s new vigour when they return to practice, he doesn’t comment on it. When he catches Neil’s eye, however, he grins knowingly. Perhaps Matt’s conversation had not been as absorbing as he made it out to be. Soon, however, the rhythm of the exercise draws Neil’s attention back to the task at hand.

Neil first learned to throw a punch because his mother believed that one day his life could depend on it. That isn’t the reason that he has resumed his training with Matt; it turns out that a good instructor and fewer death threats make the activity far more pleasant than Neil remembers. It may be a useful skill, but he values the challenge more than he does the practicality. The physicality, too – in fact, he likes boxing for the same reasons that he loves Exy. Quick, brutal, thrilling. He finally understands, too, why Andrew likes to spar with Renee whenever his emotions get on top of him. There’s a certain a sense of control that comes from putting his fist through a break-board. Not that he needs the empowerment as much as he once might have – most of Neil’s tormentors were killed long ago, his fears with them. Given his new life of safety and security, it’s likely that he’ll never really need to know how to throw a good punch.

It takes all of one week for Neil to be proven wildly, wildly wrong.

Opposition strikers – with one glaring, now very dead exception – are not typically Neil’s problem. Generally, if they end up playing on the same side of the court as him, something has gone wrong in the team’s strategies.

He can tell even from a distance, however, that one of the Terrapin strikers is causing difficulties. Not in terms of ability – of which Terrapin’s #13 has little – but in attitude. Thirteen is a vocal player, and Neil can hear snatches of his voice echoing across the court. No fists have been swung, which is an impressive feat for the Fox defenders, but perhaps only because the luck of substitutions has put Thirteen against Nicky more than anyone else, and Nicky is more likely to react to insults with mirth than anger.

Shortly before the end of the first half, Nicky is subbed off at the same time as Thirteen. Nicky passes Neil on the way to the court doors, clacking their racquets together with half a smile. “Give them hell, Neil.”

Thirteen passes them at the same moment, slamming Nicky’s shoulder as he passes. Nicky mutters a word under his breath that would have earned him a month of washing-up duty at Abby’s house before heading for the Foxes’ bench. Neil watches him go, eyebrows creasing together. Nicky isn’t easily upset by the cruelty of strangers; it’s the cruelty that comes from within his own family that is most likely to shake him from his good humour. The barbed insults of nameless players on the court, on the other hand, are usually brushed off with a rude gesture and no more.

Swept up in the rush of the match, Neil forgets about Nicky’s discomfort until half-time. The team pours from the court in high spirits; they have a decent lead over the Terrapins which should carry them through the second half when exhaustion starts to kick in. Nicky, despite having blocked more shots on goal than anyone, reacts to the arrival of the rest of the team with only a pallid grin. His grip on his water bottle is tight, and the cheap plastic crackles and caves in his hands.

Nicky is an easy read, and it doesn’t take long for the other Foxes to notice. After he brushes Renee’s concerned enquiry off, however, the team leaves him be.

When Neil returns to the court for the start of the third quarter, he breathes a sigh of relief to see that Thirteen is nowhere near Nicky. He’s standing closer to goal than Neil is happy with, but Andrew is more or less impervious to verbal abuse and Thirteen has yet to show signs of physical violence. As much as he wants to keep a closer eye on the situation, Kevin’s barked commands draw his attention to the match at hand. The best thing Neil can do for the Foxes’ defence is to spend as much time lobbing the ball at the Terrapin’s goal as possible.

Neil and Nicky are substituted at the same time; they collapse onto the bench and drown their exhaustion in Gatorade. Thirteen crushed Nicky against the wall moments before the substitution, and Nicky is uncharacteristically quiet as Abby examines the cut over his eye.

“You’re not whining about cramping your style,” she says as she presses a plaster in place. “Should I be worried?”

“Nah, this is great for my style. All the guys love a bruiser.” Nicky winks despite the blood crusting in his eyelashes. “Neil knows what I’m talking about, don’tcha, Neil?”

Abby makes a noise that isn’t convinced, but doesn’t press the issue. Neil waits until she’s out of earshot before saying casually, “I still have a few contacts in the mafia.”

“Your sense of humour is dire,” says Nicky, but he’s grinning, so Neil counts it as a win. “Don’t worry about it. I think Andrew’s drawing his fire now. Andrew handles that kind of thing a lot better than me.”

“What kind of thing?”

Nicky winced. “Don’t ask.”

“Tell me.”

“Let's just say he isn't exactly lining up to lead a Pride march.” Nicky snorts humorlessly.

The joke doesn’t land, and not because of Neil’s non-existent sense of humour. He may not be as obvious as Nicky in his preferences nor as dark-skinned, but he has still been on the receiving end of enough of that brand of bullshit to know how it scratches at one’s insides.

“I wasn’t joking about those contacts.”

Nicky sighs. “I was worried you would say that.”

Neil’s attention keeps slipping from the game and over to Andrew, who is standing in goal and ignoring the tirade of insults being thrown his way like a statue facing down a breeze. His non-reaction only seems to stoke Thirteen’s fury, spittle catching in the mesh of his helmet as he watches Andrew knock yet another attempt away from the Foxes’ end.

Andrew spares Thirteen no more than a second of blank indifference in the face of his tirade. Then he drops his stance, shoulders setting into a silent challenge that sends a hot bolt of excitement straight Neil’s to gut. Andrew is locking down the goal.

The Terrapins don’t score again for the rest of the match.

Neil is through the doors before the final buzzer has died, charging into the crush of Foxes at centre-court to join in their celebrations. Andrew, as usual, hovers at the edge of the throng, but he accepts the clack of Neil’s racquet against his. A light sheen of sweat dances across Andrew’s forehead and his lips are parted as he regains his breath after the exertion of locking the Terrapins out.

“Did Thirteen give you trouble?”

Andrew snorts derisively despite his breathlessness. “He tried.”

Neil gets to see Thirteen up close during the handshakes. He barely grazes the tips of each Foxes’ fingers as he passes one by one, but he stops when he gets to Neil. “I remember you. You were all over the news, weren’t you? The runaway Wesninski.” His expression speaks to his delight at the revelation. To no-one’s surprise, Thirteen is a sore loser.

Andrew barely moves, just a slight adjustment to his footing so that he presses a little closer into Neil’s shoulder.

Neil smiles. It is the kind of smile he has not had use for in some time. “Looking for an autograph?”

Thirteen snorts. “Bet you think you’re real bad. Bet you think those scars make you look tough. Too bad you’re still a puny little bitch.”

Neil flexes his hand before clenching it into a fist. “I do think I’m real bad, actually. Want to find out why?”

The striker waits for the hit to come. Neil doesn’t give him the satisfaction; the guy is a piece of shit, but he isn’t worth the trouble he’s clearly looking for. Neil drops his hands, meets his gaze, and waits for him to give up on getting his reaction and leave.

Most of the other players are moving off to their own respective sides, and their stand-off is beginning to attract attention. Kevin squints over at them, and at his side, Aaron pulls off his helmet.

“Oh shit. Twins.” Thirteen’s gaze swings from Aaron to Andrew, flashing with sudden recognition. “I remember you too.” His expression turns sharkish. “Now that was a story. So, which one is the murderer, and which is the brother-fucker?”

Andrew barely twitches. Neil’s reaction is less restrained.

It’s almost a play-by-play of decking Riko at the Winter Banquet. The key difference between that punch and this one is hours of training with a borderline-professional boxer.

Neil squares his stance, draws back his fist, and puts his whole body behind the punch. He’s rewarded with the sickening crack of a nose breaking and a hot spurt of blood splattering his knuckles.

Thirteen staggers back, shock registering for a second before he spits blood at the floor. He’s swaying on his feet, but there’s still fight in his eyes.

Andrew’s hands go to his sheaths, but Neil waves him back. He wipes the hand bloodied by Thirteen’s face across his jaw unthinkingly, feels the wet, red heat clinging to his skin. “Hey. This one’s mine.” The smile he tacks onto the words is toothier than he means it to be. With blood still smeared across his chin, he can only imagine how he looks.

Andrew’s hand judders to a halt at the hems of his armbands. His jaw is clenched tight but roaring over the current of concern is something far darker. It creeps into his eyes, a weight to his gaze normally only visible in the privacy of their bedroom. Andrew’s gaze runs the length of Neil’s body before coming to rest on Neil’s mouth. His bottom lip catches momentarily in his teeth as he nods.

Thirteen’s first swing hits, and a burst of blood dances across Neil’s tongue as his lip is split open. Thirteen’s luck ends there; Neil blocks his second punch with a move Matt taught him the day before. He drives his free hand into Thirteen’s solar plexus, knocking the air from him.

Neil doesn’t get much time to appreciate how the striker falls on his ass as they’re rushed by teammates and officials who break them apart.

Neil stands placidly before Wymack and bears his row with the bare minimum of decorum. The lecture is undercut by Nicky, who’s expression alternates between elation, amusement and mock disapproval from moment to moment. Matt, at least, waits until Wymack is finished before applauding.

“I’ll give you some notes later, but all things considered it was a solid right hook.”

Neil brushes the team’s reactions off as best he can; he certainly didn’t do it for their recognition.

He takes his time showering, watching with a strange, sick pleasure as he rinses the striker’s blood away. It turns pink in the shower basin before swirling at last down the drain. Beneath the blood, Neil’s knuckles have begun to bruise, satisfaction burning them blue.

It’s at these times that Neil worries that he may have inherited too much from his father; the temper, the violence, the bloodlust. Then again, they all served as tools to his survival at one point or another. The key difference between Neil and his father is who they choose to turn their anger on. Neil’s father always set his sights on the underdog. Neil prefers to punch up.

No; if there’s one thing Nathan gave him, it was a distaste for bullies.

There’s a familiar tap at the door to Neil’s stall. The rest of the Foxes cleared out some time ago, still rowdy from the post-match high. Tonight was a home game; most of the team will be halfway back to Fox tower already, thinking only of booze and the weekend stretching ahead of them. There’s only one player who would have any reason to linger.

Andrew steps under the spray, his hair is plastered to his head by the steamy drizzle. He holds his hand out, and Neil offers his without question for Andrew’s inspection.

Andrew’s voice is dispassionate as he inspects the damage. “I don’t need a knight in shining armour. Nor for you to fight my battles for me.”

“The fight was for my own satisfaction. But I’ll stop if you want me to.”

Once again, Andrew presses his lips to Neil’s raw knuckles. The contact stings, sweet and savoury, pleasure and pain. “Would it kill you to make life easy for once?” The words tingle against the tender skin.

“I thought you liked to watch me fight.”

“Just because I find your stupidity entertaining doesn’t mean I encourage it.”

“It’s my stupidity you like, is it?”

“What else do you have?” Andrew’s eyes track the rivulets of water snaking down Neil’s neck.

“I’m sure I can think of a few things.” Neil says. Then, for clarity, “Yes or no?”

“Yes.” Andrew doesn’t let go of Neil’s hand, thumb running across the reddening knuckles once more before leading it to his chest. Neil leaves it resting there, marvelling at the colours bleeding between them under the shower’s onslaught, pink and brown and red and blue. Andrew soon tires of Neil’s staring, and is the first to bridge the gap between them.

Neil once compared Andrew’s kisses to a fight with their lives on the line. Countless kisses later, this fact has not changed in the slightest. Andrew leaves a bruising trail of kisses across Neil’s neck until he can’t remember which marks are from Exy and which are from Andrew. They all sting the same, sweet way.

Each kiss pressed to his mouth carries a metallic tang from Neil’s burst lip. He can tell from the fierce pressure of Andrew’s mouth against his that Andrew can taste it too, is feeding off the adrenaline rush just as Neil is. He catches Neil’s bottom lip between his teeth and with it sucks a groan from deep in Neil’s chest.

Andrew draws back to level him with an unimpressed look. “You’re far too into this.”

“You’re one to talk.” Neil raises his hand to Andrew’s eyeline, wiggling his fingers. Andrew’s eyes catch on the blooming violet patches. “You like this. Admit it.”

Andrew steps forward until his cheek brushes Neil’s fingers. Neil turns his hand automatically, cupping Andrew’s face.

“Yes,” says Andrew. His eyes stay on Neil’s, even as Neil’s hand drops lower.

It’s a small miracle, Neil thinks, that Andrew can trust Neil’s hands on him, after all he knows they are capable of. Maybe that’s part of the appeal, the evidence painted into Neil’s knuckles that Neil’s gentler touches are reserved for Andrew and Andrew alone. It’s strange that Andrew should love Neil’s fighting spirit as much as he does. After all, it was Andrew who taught Neil how to stand and fight in the first place.

It’s a fact that neither will ever let the other forget.

Neil leaves the shower sporting several more bruises than he entered with. Some are from Exy, some are from fighting, and some are from Andrew’s mouth.

He loves them all just the same.

* Thanks for reading, let me know what you think! Still open to prompts etc.

#tfc #aftg #andreil #the foxhole court #all for the game #my fic #asks #anon #WHY IS TUMBLR FUCKING WITH THE POST FORMAT ASKDHSKDFGGGG

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gccdnews · 4 years ago

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Did you see JESSICA DREW from MARVEL walking around Limbo? The CISFEMALE looks like ALICIA VIKANDER, and is NINETY SEVEN years old. I’ve heard she can be VIRTUOUS & WITTY but also COCKSURE & REACTIVE. When I think of them I think of HELPING THE INNOCENT BY HOSPITALIZING THE GUILTY, RAISING SPIDER-BABY, THE GREATEST QUIPS OF ALL TIME BITCHCAKES. They’ve been here WITHOUT their memories as an PI & FIGHTER at BAKER STREET INVESTIGATIONS & UNDERGROUND FIGHT CLUB for SIX MONTHS. I heard they’re seeking a sanctum.

// whew. jess has a history™. it's long af and spans nearly a century so im not gonna go into crazy detail, but it's still lengthy. and i'm also gonna modify just a bit to fit in with the mcu for plotting reasons and stuff. if you don’t really care about her full history then there’s some bullet points toward the bottom.

she was born in england in 1924 and brought as a small child to the transia (it's a small, fictional slavic country) where her father was conducting research. unfortunately due to her being a small child, she contracted uranium poisoning from her father's work and had to be placed in a cryogenic chamber and treated with radiation and a highly experimental serum derived from the blood/genes of various species of spider.

she spent decades in stasis, educated subliminally with special tapes. when she was finally awakened she had only aged into her early teens, but she'd developed superhuman abilities.

grew up, moved away, met a dude, fell in love, then accidentally killed him with her powers. so yeah that kinda torments her still to this day. well, when she still remembered it anyway.

got recruited into hydra who she was led to believe were the good guys, had her memories suppressed, was told the high evolutionary basically a "god" figure, idek evolved her from a spider into a human woman, had an agent pretend to fall in love with her, etc etc. basically got gaslit and brainwashed into becoming a high ranking member until she was put out on a field assignment and told to assassinate nick fury. during the mission he told her what hydra really was and she dropped their asses.

got her memories back from mordred the mystic, then lived in a shitty apartment in london for a while. ended up breaking into a convenience store across the street at one point to get some food, but got noticed by shield agent jerry hunt who pretty much hounded her until she dyed her hair and created a secret identity to hide from him

did the hero thing for a while, moved to l.a., dated jerry, became a bounty hunter, moved to san francisco, became a p.i., superhero'd some more, met carol danvers 😍

went on a mission to finally take down longtime archenemy morgan le fay, and did so, but not before some morgan did some magic shit and separated her soul from her body ?? so she goes to the sorcerer magnus and has him cast a spell to make everyone who ever met her forget she existed.

not long later she was found and revived by two hero pals, breaking the spell, but she was left comatose. dr strange gets involved, abra cadabra, jess ain't a cadava'. but she is however, powerless.

continued working as a p.i. until an encounter with the new spider-woman mattie franklin somehow restored her powers, which came back slowly and were very unstable. meets jessica jones, accidentally zaps tf out of her, then works with her to save the new spider-woman.

eventually struck a deal with hydra to spy within shield so she could get her powers back but the skrull queen veranke was behind it and manipulating her so she could learn to perfectly impersonate jessica. jess ended up held captive for two years aboard a skrull spaceship while veranke took her place.

she and the rest of the captives got saved but because of the havoc veranke wreaked, she didn't exactly receive a warm welcome back.

spent some time rebuilding her reputation until she was invited to join the avengers (for avengers 1 in the mcu, let's say). they did some good work and she eventually fell for clint/hawkeye. they dated a while but things went sideways when he cheated on her (but obvs that's subject to change depending on who picks him up, just leaving that in for now bc it seems kinda noteworthy).

skipping comic spider-verse stuff bc how does that work with the rp, idek.

left the avengers after that and mostly stayed out of their business so she wasn't around for ultron or civil war and instead got back to her roots with some good ol fashioned p.i. work. may have crossed paths with the defenders and other street level heroes during this period.

then of course, came the snap. jess was one of the ones that vanished. using this instead of her death during secret wars in the comics. when everyone came back she joined all the others to fight thanos and damn right she was part of that moment with all the female heroes like she should have fucking been irl.

when things settled down after y'know, dying, she realized that she wanted to be a mother and raise a child, and almost never got that chance. instead of waiting, she got herself artificially inseminated. which was good too tbh because like, look at her luck with men and imagine getting stuck in one of those relationships she'd been in so far. way better off doing it on her own smh

got invited to an alpha flight maternity ward by her captain marvel but when she went there it ended up getting overrun by skrulls and being super fucking pregnant she called carol for help, but the maternity ward was apparently in a black hole?? bc ofc it was lol. so jess protected all the women there, had an emergency c-section to give birth to her son gerry, then popped right off the table to finish kicking skrull ass. carol got there just in time for jess to collapse into her arms after the fight. headcanon — there was always a crush there but this was the moment jess fell hard.

had a liiittle teensy falling out with carol tho so she ended up kissing roger gocking/porcupine right in front of her during a battle that ended up repairing their friendship. then she went on to have a party announcing she and roger were dating but lbr she did most of this sub/consciously hoping to get a rise out of carol. but her spider-baby ended up crawling out a window and roger was the one to find and save him and there were some actual feelings there too, so. complicated. she kind of distanced herself from everything else to focus on p.i. work and raising her son.

not much later, jess realized her radiation immunity was gone and her powers were killing her, so she had roger take gerry to an upstate farm in case her condition could potentially harm her son, then set out on the search for a cure. that search of course, leading her to limbo city, nevada.

upon her arrival however, her memories quickly started to fade and by the time she woke up the next morning she had no specific recollection of memories. just innate and instinctive knowledge like her emotions toward people she was familiar with, emotional trauma that manifests mostly in her dreams, maternal instincts/yearning, her abilities both physical and learned, her interests and likes/dislikes, etc. things that come naturally to her, for the most part.

interestingly though, the town’s magic seems to have cured her??

gonna say she speaks english, romanian, german, hungarian, symkarian, russian, bulgarian, polish and spanish fluently, and knows a bit about a number of other languages.

incredibly intelligent, she is after all the daughter of a genius, raised among scientists conducting research, and her knowledge/intelligence was only maximized by her stasis education tapes.

exudes a high concentration of pheromones that can attract or repulse people, to put it simply. and ignore the original heteronormative connotations bc women aren't typically the ones she wants to repulse, and men arent always the ones she wants to attract. it's difficult to control but she learned over the years. even now without her memories she has innate control over it, but if she manages to work up a sweat (which isn't all that easy for her tbh) or misses a shower or two, well… it's gonna kick in.

she probably can't do it anymore in limbo because she can't remember how, but with her pheromones she learned to control them so well she was able to elicit fear, anxiety, attraction, hatred, pleasure, etc. and even used them to convince the hulk to make her a sandwich once.

fucking loves butter. she's been known to eat the stuff straight up. and a lot of it. lucky thing she has a spider-metabolism.

hc: she loves making puns, especially spider related ones. she also likes to annoy her spider-friends by spider-throwing the word spider in front of everything though it's obviously a joke, unlike in her cartoon where im pretty sure she was dead serious lol

hates rats. so much. she will tear down a whole skrull army but if one shapeshifts into a rat it's over okay, she already lost.

allergic to flerkens. which is great for visiting her bestie/crush, and her pet flerken chewie.

still has her suit but hasn’t worn it yet in limbo. she found it under her bed a couple days after “waking up” in limbo but put it right back because she figured it was probably some weird sex thing and maybe wasn’t even hers so, gross, yknow?

#jessica drew.#limbchq: intro #jessica drew ( intro ).#death tw #gaslighting tw #captivity tw #pregnancy tw #i've come to love her so much in a short time

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redbeanboi · 5 years ago

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Hii. I hope you're doing well today :) can i request for hcs again? I just really love your hcs and it's okay if it's long and take your time in doing it, no rush here :) may i request for hcs about reader being giorno's twin sis and mista's s/o. Im just wondering how will it go considering giorno's a bit protective to his twin and she's the opposite of gio like she's boyish and stuff like that. Arigathanks gozaimuch 💕

Hi anon! Of course you can send a request in. Thank you for being very kind!

Hm,...Reader who is not only Giorno’s twin sister but also Mista’s s/o?? Those are two lucky guys!

F!Reader who’s Giorno’s twin sister and Mista’s S/O

Giorno is very protective of his loved ones—especially after losing so many of his friends to become the Boss. Any sibling or blood relative of his would not be subject to any exceptions! In fact, he’d probably be more protective. He would most definitely make sure that his sister knows how to defend herself and use her stand, but he’d also make sure that she is always accompanied by bodyguards.

Eventually you’ll probably convince him that having 10 bodyguards is a little overkill, so he just settles on assigning Mista to escort you anywhere you go and it makes sense considering he’s already your s/o!

Mista watches too many movies and gets really into his “serious attentive bodyguard” role and will get a kick out of taste-testing and helping himself to half of your food and completing other bodyguard duties.

Mista can and will take a bullet for you even if you’re capable of defending yourself. He’s just that kind of guy.

He definitely likes pointing out the stark contrasts between you and your twin brother Giorno, and if you’re identical twins, he’ll suggest that you both switch places for the day and see what happens.

Mista likes to see what’ll make you tick. Giorno’s pretty good at holding stuff in, so it’s refreshing for him to see you kinda lose it over just about anything. Expect him to pull pranks on you just to set you off.

Giorno did not approve of the relationship at first, only because he doesn’t want either of you to get hurt, but once he realizes how serious things are between you and Mista, he lets up and rescinds all statements he’s made against your relationship!

If you’re having an argument with each other and Giorno notices, he’ll utilize some subtle-but-not-so-subtle ways of getting you to makeup, and most definitely will have Mista go on a mission to “get some (insert your favorite chocolate/candy/treat) and drop them at x address.” It’s only when you answer the door and see Mista with a bunch of your favorite things that you both realize Giorno’s just meddling. You makeup immediately and to Giorno’s surprise, tell him that he “should really mind his own business, hmph!”

When Mista’s getting stuck on what to do for dates or what to buy you as a gift, Giorno will give the very welcome and sage advice that is “why don’t you just ask her yourself?” And once Mista does that it’s all solved!

The first time you come home with a bruise from an attack on the way home after a date, sirens and bells and all these alarms go off in Giorno’s head, but... It was not for the reason you might’ve thought! Unfortunately, Giorno was under the impression that you were being abused by Mista and when he calls you both into his office and asks for an explanation, you both have to calmly tell him that, yes, you were hurt from an attack on the way home, but no, it was not an attack from Mista. Giorno apologizes shortly after and asks that either one of you fill him in on these things if it ever happens again, or just call him so he can deal with it personally the next time.

A/N: Thanks for sending a request in! It was really interesting (and fun) working through these kind of specifics especially for a headcanon request! Have a great day. xx

#asks #anon #guido mista x reader #thanks for sending a request in!

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hellimagines · 6 years ago

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Please, Don’t Take it Back -- Nathan Young

*My masterlist link can be found in my blog description*

Request: “Requesting shamelessly. If you have time can you do a Nathan/Reader where shes like his go to. He goes to her with all his problems and she helps him. And thensomething big happens and he realizes he hasnt been doing the same for her? Bonus points if theres a sudden and aggressive declaration of love! I love your face!!!” @stargazingwithcassidy

Summary: After another altercation with your boyfriend, you pick Nathan up from the Community Center, and the truth comes out.

Warnings: domestic abuse, graphic injury depictions

Pairing: Nathan Young x fem!reader

Word Count: 2,000+

A/N: Everyone, Cassidy is the best and I love them and please go give them a follow! Also, lemme know if you liked this bitch

“You know I love you… right?”

You paused, your palms pressed against the kitchen flooring of your boyfriend’s house. Blood dripped from your nose and the corner of your lip, dribbling onto the white tile below and causing tiny mouse-like puddles. Lifting your head you saw Drew knelt beside you, his face full of false concern and pity. His hand was gently placed on your shaking shoulders, his knuckles split, bruised, and bloody from all the punching and attacking he had done. His eyebrows were furrowed over his brown eyes, but they held no emotion.

“Right,” you replied simply, finally looking away so you could raise yourself onto shaking legs. You were forced to stumble over to the counter, your broken fingers gripping onto the marble to keep from falling back to your knees. Pain ricocheted from the tips of your fingers to the back of your shoulder blade, but you ignored it in favor of staying upright. A weak smile spread across your lips as you looked back to your attacker, trying to convince him (and yourself) that you were okay. “Can I go pick Nathan up now? His mum called earlier and she won’t be able to grab ‘im. I’ll be back within the hour.” It was a lie, Nathan had been the one texting you non-stop to grab a bite with him, and you weren’t planning on being back until later.

Drew looked at you carefully, still crouched beside your puddle of blood on the floor. He breathed in, “Fine. Be back by 4, or we’re going to have another talk, got it?”

“Yes, I’ll be back before then,” you nodded, willing yourself to straighten out as he stood up. “I love you.”

“I love you too. Now go.” Drew flicked his hand towards the door and you didn’t hesitate before scurrying away, tail metaphorically tucked between your legs.

You rushed to the car, practically stumbling over your own feet in your haste as the front door slammed behind you. Tears trickled down your face and mixed with your blood, causing pink droplets to fall from your chin. Opening the car door took you a minute, but once you were safely inside, you managed to finally take a handful of calming breaths. Your eyes were shut and your hands loosely gripped the steering wheel. You didn’t have much time to think about the past hour- Nathan was probably already waiting for you, and making him wait much longer would only cause a boatload of questions. So, with a deep, ragged breath, you drove away in pursuit of the Community Center and its resident dumbass.

“Oi, Cunt Face! Took you long enough, I’ve been out here for days!” Nathan howled across the parking lot, dramatically trudging himself over to your car. A cigarette hung from his pouting lips, but he flicked it away before approaching your car. “The starvation and dehydration has already started kickin’ in! I mean look at me! I’m skin and bones,” he cried, swinging open the door and sliding in.

“Nathan, you’ve always been skin and bones. Shut up,” you laughed quietly, pulling out of the parking lot without looking at your best friend.

Nathan gasped, “Are you skeleton shaming me right now? Because I don’t appreciate that.”

“You know what? Maybe I am- there’s too many skeletons out there, it’s like the pirate days all over again,” you giggled. “I mean honestly-”

“The hell’s happened to your face?” Nathan suddenly shouted, cutting you off and startling you into jerking the car. “You look like you’ve just gotten out of a fight ring- and lost!”

You laughed nervously, “D-Don’t worry about it, Nath’, just an accident. Besides, we all know I’d kick ass in a fight ring.” You were hoping that with enough jokes and playful laughs, Nathan would drop the subject.

But Nathan was an observant pissfire and rarely gave up on things he became fixated on. “Bullshit! That ain’t no accident, love. Your fingers are all fucked, and your face is every shade of black and blue in existence. What happened?”

You let your eyes wander over to Nathan briefly, before focusing them back on the empty road ahead. You didn’t want to tell your curly-haired best friend what had truly happened to you for a multitude of reasons. For starters, Nathan would try and shove you into a clinic, or worse, fix the injuries himself. Just the thought of Nathan attempting to fix your fingers made you shiver. Then, after making sure you were okay, he’d march his scrawny-ass over to Drew and pick a fight. A fight, he would no doubt lose. You had no intention of letting your best friend get mauled just because your boyfriend had a temper.

“(Y/N), please. Tell me what’s going on? It seems like every week you’ve got a new injury and a newly broken heart. I’m a jerk, yeah, but I’m not stupid. He’s hurtin’ you, isn’t he?” Nathan snarled- his soft voice now filled with enough venom to make his Irish accent nearly incoherent. “I’ll fuck him right up if he is. Make ‘im piss and vomit blood for months. ‘Ow’s that sound? Make sure ‘e never bothers you again.”

You sighed heavily. Gripping the steering wheel with your unbroken hand, you veered into an abandon store parking lot and shut off the car. Nathan was uncharacteristically quiet, probably sensing that you were finally about to open up. You shifted in your seat, pressing your aching back against the door so you could fully face him. His green eyes were narrowed with worry and concern, his lips pulled into a deep frown, and his fingers tugged on the various holes of his orange jumpsuit. Over the past few months, you had grown tired of constantly having to lie to everyone around you, including yourself. Drew didn’t love you, not anymore, and it hurt to admit. But you had to tell someone about what was going on; even if that someone had never taken anything seriously in his life.

“Just… just let me talk, okay? No interrupting, no nothing. Because if I stop I won’t get going again. Okay?” Nathan nodded, so you began. “We’ve been dating for like two years, yeah? And shit was amazing in the beginning: flowers, books, trips, coffee, texts, car rides, meeting everyone, all that crap. But after the first year, he got mean. He was controlling and kept looking over my shoulder. Everything I did and everywhere I went, he was there. Then, one night, I went out without tellin’ him. I figured that a night away would do the both of us good. I went out with you and the others, smoked a bit and fell asleep on your floor. Shit we used to do all the time. But when I got home that morning, he was… he was mad. Like, really mad. He hurt me until I passed out, and when I woke up, he had gotten me flowers and another book. So, to me, things were okay. One time thing, yeah? But then it became a monthly thing. Then a weekly. And now, I’m lucky if a day goes by that I don’t get slapped or something. I don’t know how to get out of it. I don’t know what to do, Nath’.”

After your admittance, the car was filled with a heavy silence. You had tears falling freely from your eyes, while Nathan had barely-concealed ones that he refused to let fall. He needed to be strong for you, the same way you had been strong for yourself. Nathan’s heart hurt at the fact that you had been dealing with near-constant abuse for over a year. That he had no idea about any of it, and that he wasn’t there for you or there to help you during any of it. He had been so focused on his own issues, his own demons, that he didn’t take a second to consider the devil by your side.

“I’m sorry,” he began, the words tumbling from his quivering lips. “I’m sorry that you felt that you couldn’t trust me, or anyone, to help you. I’m sorry that you haven’t felt true love and happiness, that wasn’t followed by being hurt, for two years. I’m sorry that I wasn’t there to protect you like I promised I would. I’m sorry, for everything.”

“It’s not your fault-”

Nathan shook his head, “I’m not saying it’s my fault. And it’s not yours, either. It’s Drew’s fault for being a fucked sack of shit. But, what I’m saying, is that I’m sorry. And even though I haven’t been there for you lately, I’m here now. I will do everything in my immortal power to keep you from ever going back to him, from ever getting hurt by him. I love you too much to see another one of these injuries on you. Come back to the Community Center with me, sleep there. We’ll grab some food, like we planned, and then figure all this shit out,” Nathan said, reaching across the console to grab your uninjured hand. “But first, let’s go to the clinic to get this hand fixed.”

“I can’t go to the clinic, they’ll ask questions- but wait, what did you say?” Your brain was turning in mushy circles after Nathan’s speech, focusing on one part of his words, and then all of them, and then none. But one thing did stand out and stayed circling your mind.

“That you can sleep with me at the Center. Mum kicked me out, remember?”

“No, not about that. The love part, you said you love me,” you whispered, your mouth opened in awe. Nathan suddenly looked panicked. His worried face was now a deep red, and he began spluttering over nothing. “Don’t take it back. Please, don’t take it back,” you spit out quickly, gripping his hand tightly. “I love you too. Fuck, Nathan, I’ve always loved you.”

Nathan’s breath hitched and his eyes widened impossibly more, but his face became soft. “You have? Oh God, (Y/N), I should’ve said something sooner! I could’ve made you happy and you wouldn’t have had to deal with that douchecanoe!”

You giggled softly at Nathan’s words, a genuine smile gracing your features. “I should’ve said something, too. But at least we know now.”

“Yeah, you can love me now instead of him,” Nathan huffed, but you shook your head.

“Doesn’t work like that, Nath’, and you know it. I’m gonna need time to heal from all this, and I don’t want to use you as my medicine. I want you to be there for me, but I don’t want to rely on you to be happy. Only once I’ve officially broken up with him and know I’m safe, will I consider us dating. For now… for now, let’s just get these fingers dealt with, grab some food, and head back to the Center.”

Nathan nodded quickly in understanding. “Of course, (Y/N/N). I’ll be here for you as long as you need me to. Best friends ‘til the end of time,” he joked, flashing you a wink as you started the car back up.

“Best friends ‘til the end of time,” you confirmed with an equally goofy smile on your face. You pulled out of the parking lot suddenly feeling lighter, as though the weight of the world had been lifted off your shoulders. You still had a long way to go, and you weren’t even close to being out-of-the-clear, but you were one step closer to safety; to happiness. And that was all that mattered.

All Writing Taglist (OPEN): @teageowen @mads---world @alex--awesome--22 @hxdesworld @frozenhuntress67 @samanthasmileys @simonsaysyasss @marvelismylifffe @bademliimagnum @coastalmason @wherewecangazeintothestars

#nathan young #nathan young imagine #nathan young imagines #nathan young x reader #misfits #misfits imagine #misfits imagines #misfits x reader #robert sheehan

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sammyspreadyourwings · 5 years ago

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Ok so super duper self indulgent but deaky as spiderman and his roomies (the rest of the band) are getting suspicious about him disappearing and coming back kinda damaged so they stake it out and then he comes back from a fight, they see its him, and kinda fix him up a bit?? Im sure youve tons more asks but i just wanted to send this in too skdkksk sorry

OMG this prompt was so cute! I had a lot of fun writing it!

It starts out with Brian commenting on a bruise. Johnhadn’t realized that his ribs still showed signs of last night’s tussle withthe bank robbers. He smiles and says something about having taken a tumble downa flight of steps.

Which of course alerts Freddie and Roger.

“Deaky! Why didn’t you tell us?” Freddie frets, pressingon random spots on his bruise.

John rolls his eyes and keeps the shirt lifted. Rogerpushes Freddie away and looks at the mark.

“Doesn’t look like you broke anything, lucky. Tell us inthe future, mate.”

“Sure,” John shrugs easily and drops the shirt, “Ihonestly didn’t think the bruise looked that bad.”

Roger gives him a very unimpressed stare.

🕸🕸🕸🕸

The next time is when he slinks into the flat at nearly four in the morning.Most of the time his partners would be asleep, and he could sneak into theirroom and curl behind one of them without disturbing them.

This time however, Freddie is wide awake playing asorrowful tune on the piano.

“Where have you been?”

“Library?”

Freddie watches him, “huh, Brimi didn’t say anythingabout seeing you there.”

“Important project didn’t want to be distracted,” heflashes the best grin that he could.

It makes Freddie chuckle and John has never been moregrateful for the time he and Brian had been found making out between theshelves.

“Well, send us amessage next time,” Freddie replies, “Brian and Roger thought that you had runoff to Bali or something as equally ridiculous.”

“How would I afford a trip to Bali?”

He walks over and places a kiss on Freddie’s forehead,“can’t sleep?”

“The muse never lets her artists sleep.”

“Take a nap later today,” John kisses him again beforeslipping away to their bedroom.

He very nearly tells them the day Roger gets caught inthe crossfire. John doesn’t know how he let the battle get so out of hand, andcut a swathe through London proper, but he vows to never let it happen again.

Especially as he swings down to save a civilian oninstinct from an I-beam falling on him. John rolls with them before coming to astop with the person below him. He stares for a moment and he is caught by toofamiliar blue eyes.

They’re wide in terror and John wants to cry. It’s rarefor Roger to be anything other than composed or angry.

“Careful,” he lowers his voice.

He thinks he sees a spark of recognition, but he is gonebefore Roger can press the question. John might fight a little harder afterthat.

He doesn’t realize that the fight had left him with along gash down his spine until he hears Brian’s sharp cry.

“John! What have you done!”

John twists and looks at himself in the mirror. It’lltake a few days for that to close completely. What shirts does he not careabout losing?

“We need to go to the hospital!” Brian steps towards him,“first Roger, and now you. I have half a mind to retire us all to thecountryside.”

Brian is shaking and John feels the guilt rise in him. Bybeing here, he is putting them in danger. If anyone ever found out hisidentity, they’d come after his heart. He has three times as many chinks in hisarmor. John surges up and kisses Brian deeply.

Brian flails his arms around before resting them on topof his shoulders, “if you go to the hospital, Roger will too, and I can makesure the both of you are okay.”

“That’s a better plan than subjecting Freddie to the lifeof a farmer.”

Brian chuckles, but he still looks terrified.

🕸🕸🕸🕸

John slips through the back window of their new flat. Hischest still stops in panic when he thinks about one of the supervillains of theweek flying through his flat. Thank god no one had been home.

And thank god no one questioned why he wouldn’t stopclinging to them for a week. Or why Spider-Man also vanished for that sameamount of time.

He should have known that his luck was running out.

“Christ,” Roger says, “you are him.”

“Roger,” John swallows.

“Roggie?” Freddie steps into the room, “ah, Deaky.”

It is only a half heartbeat later that Brian joins him.Brian looks the least surprised, a simple raise of the eyebrow. John has amoment of hysteria thinking that Brian started pouring over every fight whereSpider-Man got hurt and then compared them to the bruises and scrapes he camehome with.

That’s probably what happened.

“So,” Roger says lightly, “is this the part where you tryto convince us you’re into cosplay?”

John shakes his head, “would you believe me?”

“Why didn’t you tell us, Deaky?”

“Because the more people that know the more risk it putsyou all in danger,” John says honestly, “and I didn’t want you worrying.”

Freddie steps forward and wraps him in a hug, “John, mylove, we were worried you’d gotten into an unsavory crowd.”

He smiles sheepishly, “I’m sorry.”

Freddie steps back to say something but then Roger rushesforward to hug him and meet him in an incredibly intense kiss, “I didn’t get toproperly thank you for saving my life that day.”

John returns the kiss eagerly, barely giving Roger timeto catch his breath. When they break apart, he presses his head against Roger’sthroat. He feels the humming pulse where they’re connected.

“Promise me next time you see a fight; you don’t juststand there?”

“I’ll try, but I’ll know that you are…” Roger answersquietly.

“I’ve been fine so far.”

He doesn’t think about how now he scans the crowd beneathhim for familiar features. John knows he should prioritize lives, but he can’tthink about what would happen to him if he knew that it was his carelessnessthat got one of his hearts killed.

“Shh.”

John didn’t know that he had started crying. Freddiesteps back up and swipes his fingers underneath his eyes. The tears smear andJohn offers a tired smile.

“I have a lot of questions,” Freddie says, kissing himgently.

“I’ll tell you someday.”

He looks to where Brian is folding tightly in on himself.John moves past Freddie and Roger who look on in sympathy. Had he missed Brianwithdrawing from them? Slowly he lifts Brian’s gaze to him, hazel eyes arefilled with tears.

“Bri,” he says softly.

“I thought you were cheating on us,” Brian says, “andthat they were forcing you – abusing…”

John pulls Brian into a hug kissing whatever skin he canreach, “no never. I would never. You three are the reason I want to go out thereand fight. I want to make the world safer for you.”

Brian sniffles and kisses a spot on his throat, “you’vegot to promise that you’ll always try to come home.”

“I will never give up,” John agrees.

How could he? Tomorrow, he is sure will be filled withhurt and anger at his secrecy. Brian’s trust is not easily won back and apparently,he lost it at some point. He knows that Roger won’t let him leave the flateasily. Freddie is going to be even more mothering.

John knows that as long as they’re with him; he won’tstop trying to save the world.

#poly!queen #spidey-deaky #prompt fill #drabble #I love spidey-deaky a lot!#like so much #I hope I did it some justice #Anonymous #asks

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takerfoxx · 5 years ago

Text

IM Swiftly Descending Shadow, Chapter 2

Stopping gossip from getting out at the Aoki Yume’s Children’s Home was like trying to catch the wind in your fist. Sure, you ended up with a handful of air, but the wind itself didn’t seem to notice and before you knew it all your stuff was knocked over.

Rumia hadn’t told anyone about their misadventure. Kohta hadn’t told anyone about their misadventure. Keine definitely hadn’t told anyone about their misadventure. And say what you will about Miss Mokou, but she was a woman of her word.

Still, by the time dinner had rolled around, everyone knew.

No one said anything to them. There were no questions, no comments, no taunts. But Rumia could still tell. She could tell by some of the sidelong glances and smirks from the ones she didn’t like. She could tell from the pitying looks from those that she did. How word had gotten out when none of those who had actually been there would ever tell, she didn’t know. Maybe someone had so happened to be near enough to hear. It didn’t matter. Word always got out.

Rumia sighed. To be perfectly honest, she didn’t really give a crap about their punishment. They were in trouble all the time! This wasn’t the first time they had been given extra chores as a result and it wouldn’t be the last. It was gross and annoying, but whatever. It would pass.

The problem was that, as always, being in trouble made them vulnerable.

Supper was fish stew, and while Rumia liked it well enough, she was not looking forward to dealing with that fishy smell afterward. She tried to eat quickly, so as not to get too much of the taste stuck on her tongue.

“Head’s up,” Kohta muttered.

“Huh?”

Kohta nodded to their right. Sitting across from them down the table were their arch-nemeses Haruko Kamijima, Eiko Goto, and Hayate Maeda. The three of them had been the ones that Rumia and Kohta had caught tormenting Keine to begin with, and the two trios had been enemies ever since. Which was fine. Sometimes you just needed an enemy to make life more interesting.

Unfortunately, having an enemy also made other times all the more hard to take. Such as now.

Apparently the three of them had been trying to get Rumia and her friends’ attention. They were already leering at them when Rumia looked up, and as soon as Rumia was looking their way they started snickering.

Then, with deliberate slowness, Haruko reached up with a single finger and stuck it into her nostril. She dug around for a bit before pulling out a slimy, greyish-green blob. Grinning at Rumia, she smeared it across the inside of her bow.

Suddenly Rumia didn’t really care for the rest of her meal. “Thanks,” she hissed to Kohta. “I really needed to see that.”

“You’re washing theirs,” Kohta remarked.

“Uh, am not? Why should I?”

“Because the cookie raid was your idea. And I’m already stuck with the big pot, so it’s only fair. Or are you going to make Keine do it?”

Keine, who had been lost in thought as she pushed pieces of stew around in her bowl, suddenly looked up at the sound of her name. “Huh?” she said. “What about me?”

Rumia and Kohta exchanged a glance. Rumia sighed. “Nothing,” she growled. “I got it.”

“Got what? What happened?”

“Nothing! Gods, drop it!”

Keine still looked confused, but she knew better than to press the subject, so she shrugged and went back to her private musing. Rumia shot Kohta a glare. In response, Kohta just shrugged.

“Jerk,” Rumia muttered.

“Youkaiass,” he whispered back.

“Fairypuss.”

“Shiteater.”

“Will you two grow up?” Keine said.

“Never,” Rumia and Kohta said in unison.

…

It was, as predicted, a thoroughly miserable experience.

Eighteen kids lived at the orphanage. Eighteen kids, plus the six grown-ups that took care of them. That meant twenty-four bowls, twenty-four plates, twenty-four sets of utensils, and twenty-four cups, plus everything that Miss Mokou used to make the large meals for everyone.

Kohta had been stuck taking care of that last bit, and now he was on his hands and knees deep inside the big black pot that Mokou had cooked the stew in, scrubbing every bit of fish goop away. He had to emerge every few seconds to gag and cough before taking a deep breath and plunging back in again. Rumia sympathized. It wasn’t that it smelled bad, of course. It was just that it smelled a lot.

She and Keine were taking care of the bowls, plates, cups, and utensils, and unfortunately Rumia herself was doing the actual cleaning while Keine had been lucky enough to be left with the drying and stacking. Technically, Keine’s job was the more lengthy one, but Rumia’s was by far the grossest.

Most of the bowls were mostly picked clean, leaving just the residue. Others…were not. And Rumia knew the second that she came to Haruko’s.

Nearby, Miss Mokou was lounging on a stool in a corner, a lit cigarette in her mouth as she smugly watched them. “You know,” she said around puffs of smoke. “I know kids will be kids. And I sure as hell know that you three all got a bit of devil in you. But come on! Now? When flying lessons are right around the corner? With the market trip…tomorrow? Would’ve thought that you’d have more sense than that.”

Rumia clamped her jaw tight to keep from letting a smart remark slip. She kept on scrubbing.

“Ah well, guess we’re all servants to our natures. Especially in this godsinfested country. Spirits will wander, fairies will forever be stupid, and you will-”

“Um, Miss Mokou?” Keine said suddenly.

Miss Mokou paused, no doubt a bit taken back at being interrupted. Then she said, “Yeah?”

“How come we can only ever get to see other people when the big market goes up? How come we can never actually get to go to the Human Village anymore?”

Rumia, who had only been listening with half an ear, suddenly heard a sharp sizzling sound. She turned around.

Miss Mokou’s cigarette was burning. Not just lit, but burning, a small ring of fire traveling down its length, turning it into ash as it went. What was more, it wasn’t coming from the lit end, but out from Miss Mokou’s mouth.

Soon Miss Mokou was just left with a cylinder of solid ash stuck between her lips.

She let out one last cloud of cigarette smoke, and the ash fell apart. She spat out the rest. “Because, Keine,” Miss Mokou said, her voice calm but filled with barely repressed anger. “It’s like I was saying. We all have our natures. Kids will get into mischief, fairies will be stupid, youkai will be wild.” She picked up her cigarette box from the nearby kitchen counter and her nose wrinkled in annoyance when she saw that it was empty. She tossed it into the nearby trash bucket. “And fools will be fools.”

Kohta looked up from his ordeal. “What does that mean?” he said. “What fools?”

Miss Mokou shook her head. “Never you mind.” She leaned forward on the stool, her long forearms perched in her knees while her hands dangled in between her legs like a pair of hanging spiders. “Listen to me, kids. Yeah, we expect you to mind the grown-ups here in this house, but just because someone’s a grown-up doesn’t make them wise, or even smart. There are plenty of people who get as old as the hills but remain dumber than any one of you. And the Human Village is crawling with that kind of idiot.”

“But why?” Keine said. “What does that have to do with us not being allowed in?”

Miss Mokou shook her head. “Never you mind,” she said again. “Just remember: as you grow up, you’re probably gonna hear some people say some nasty things. But don’t you believe any of it. You might be annoying little cockroaches sometimes, but there’s nothing wrong with you kids at all.”

“Wrong?” Rumia frowned. “Wait, who’s saying that something’s wrong with us?”

“Idiots. Like I said earlier. Just idiots.” Then Ms. Mokou sighed. “Look, you guys are good for tonight. Go ahead and go to bed. And seriously, next time you try to pull one over on me, at least come up with something new, okay?”

“Okay,” Rumia said, though she was still very confused. “Um, good night, Miss Mokou. “She, Kohta, and Keine all started to head for the door.

“Oh, wait, hold up,” Miss Mokou said suddenly.

The trio turned around, half-expecting to be presented with some last-minute labor.

Instead, Miss Mokou was holding out a sizzling metal tray. On it were three freshly baked ginger cookies with chunks of apple.

Rumia perked up in surprise. “Uh, huh? Really?”

In response, Mokou winked and held a finger to her lips. “Shhhh.”

That sounded as fair a deal as Rumia had ever heard. She and her friends took the offered treats, bowed in thanks, and hurried off.

…

Mokou sat alone in her kitchen, eyes still fixed on the door that her favorite band of troublemakers had just departed through.

Even though she cared for every child who lived at the Aoki Yume’s Children’s Home, even the mean ones, she had always had a soft spot for those three. After all, it had been them that had found her lifeless body buried in the snow and had it dragged back to the orphanage two years prior. It had been them that had sort of taken her under their wing after her shockingly quick recovery and showed her around. It had been them that had convinced her to abandon the endless cycle of hatred and pain her life had been. It had been them that had convinced her to find a new purpose in life, to stay.

Mokou smiled. Even after she had been accepted into the family, those three had still seemed to be unable to stay away from her, though as her tormentors rather than her caretakers. They seemed to take personal delight in trying to pull one over on her, to make her fall victim to their endless pranks and schemes when most of the other kids seemed to be a little afraid of her. As someone who had grown up with several older brothers, Mokou appreciated that. It had been a long time since anything had reminded her of the few good times in her life.

Then, as she mused on the drastic change her life had taken in the last couple of years, there was a knock at the back door.

Mokou rose and went to answer it.

Standing outside was a woman. A very short woman, one that was barely taller than the kids that Mokou had just been talking to and could probably be mistaken for a child herself if one didn’t know better like Mokou did. Her short, black hair was curly; her eyes dark maroon; and she was wearing a fleecy pink dress, a carrot-shaped pendant on a slender silver chain around her neck, and probably not a whole lot else. In one hand she was holding the handle of a lit lantern while the other clutched the handle of a large wooden mallet that was resting over her shoulder.

Also, sticking out of her hair was a pair of white rabbit’s ears.

“Heeeeeeeeeeey Mokou,” the rabbit said. “What up, girl?”

Mokou looked her up and down and sighed. “Tewi. Well, hello, but seriously. We’ve talked about this.”

“About what, Phoenix?” Tewi said with a wry grin.

“You’re on Human lands now. I don’t care that it’s almost midnight. Could you at least put on a hat?”

“Hmmm.” Tewi placed the head of her mallet on the ground and made a show of thoughtfully tapping her lower lip. Then she shook her head. “Nah.”

Mokou shot her a look. “Seriously, Tewi. Is it too much to ask that you just keep your ears covered? You know people’ll start talking if a fucking youkai keeps showing up here in the dead of night.”

“That is, how do they say, not my problem.” Tewi stepped to one side and gestured. “Besides, one might think that you would be a little more polite and less judgy about someone providing you with all these?”

Outside were four large wicker baskets, each filled with a different kind of food. One contained rose red apples, one with freshly caught fish, one with white and purple turnips, and one with onions.

“Oh, I’m grateful,” Mokou said as she grabbed the handles of two of the baskets with one hand apiece. Each one of them would have been difficult for two large men working together but she lifted them both with ease. “I’m super grateful. But come on, you know how things are now.”

Tewi hopped inside and jumped up to sit on the counter next to the sink. “Oh, I hear. Word has reach my ickle lickle ears that your Human friends don’t really like us anymore. Again.”

“Right,” Mokou sighed. “Fucking Sonozikas.”

“Well, that’s what you get for not finishing the job.”

“Hey, I finished the job.” Mokou set the baskets down and went back for the other two. “Everyone I barbequed had it coming. But I’m not going to kill someone’s kids just because their dad is a murderous bastard that needed to be slow-cooked inside his own armor.”

“Which is what you did to him.”

“Well, yeah.”

“Uh-huh. And how did that little bit of mercy turn out?”

Mokou shrugged. “Look, if it wasn’t the Sonozikas, it would be someone else. They do this shit all time. You could set your calendar to whether or not the Human Village hates youkai.”

“Yeah, you Humans are weird. At least we keep our grudges personal.”

Setting the last two baskets down, Mokou shut the back door. “So do I, if you’ll remember.”

“Yeah, speaking of which, you wanna know what Kaguya’s been up too?”

Mokou had to take several seconds to breathe in deeply and slowly exhale. “I,” she said icily, “could not give less of a shit.”

“Oh, come on! Aren’t you at least a little curious?”

“I’m done with Kaguya,” Mokou said flatly. “That’s the whole point, remember?”

Tewi grinned in that insufferably disbelieving way of hers. “Yeeeeaaaahhhhh, bullshit.”

Mokou leaned up against the door and folded her arms. “Think what you want. I’m done. She can go back to the Moon for all I care.”

“Uh-huh. Okay, fine.”

Silence fell between them. Tewi remained seated on the counter, her legs swinging, while Mokou stayed where she was, leaning nonchalantly against the door.

She reached into her pocket but frowned when she remembered that she had just smoked her last cigarette earlier. Damn. She made a mental note to tell Joshua to pick her up a new pack tomorrow.

Then she glanced at Tewi, who was still idly swinging her legs while her head bobbed from side to side as she hummed a nonsensical tune, seemingly without a care in the world.

Then Mokou sighed. Damn it. “Okay, fine,” she said. “Tell me what the moonbitch has been up to.”

Tewi grinned in triumph. “Pottery!”

“Eh?”

“I’m serious. She’s, like, majorly into pottery now. She’s been spending every day with heaps of clay, just shaping pot after pot after pot. They’re not even that good. She doesn’t even paint them or anything, and doesn’t seem to care about them once they’re done. When she has too many, she just throws them away to make more room.”

“Oh really?”

“Oh yeah. At least it’s better than her last hobby.”

Mokou scratched the back of her neck. “I heard she started to fancy herself as a playwright.”

“Ha! See? You do care.” Tewi sighed. “And yup. She did.”

“Dare I ask what her little dramas were about?”

“Her, mostly. About her killing you once and for all. Or making you her slave. Or conquering the Moon. Or about all the princesses of the world falling madly in love with her and becoming her personal harem. You know. Stuff like that.”

Which was more or less exactly the sort of thing Kaguya would probably write. “Any of them any good?”

Tewi hesitated. “They…have their fans.”

“So no.”

“Oh, gods no, they were awful.”

Mokou found herself smirking. “So basically what you’re telling me is that Princess Kaguya is bored out of her mind.”

“Oh, totally. You don’t just wage eternal war against your hated rival for centuries and expect to cope when it’s suddenly over.”

“Ha! So, I get to enjoy my live peacefully here and still torture her. Best of both worlds.”

“Well, you know what they say about living well. At least I don’t have to help clear away charred rubble and rebuild Eientei every couple of months anymore.” Then something incredibly rare happened, something that Mokou had only seen a handful of times in her lifetime, and her lifetime had provided plenty of opportunities for just about anything to happen: Tewi’s face turned serious. “Though, hey, Mokou. Need to tell you something.”

Mokou tilted her head to one side and frowned.

“Something’s…up. Nothing to do with us or Kaguya or anything, but still: something’s up.”

“Something? What kind of something specifically?”

Tewi shook her head. “I don’t know exactly, but I know a guy who knows a girl whose cousin’s girlfriend said something about some weird shit going down in the Youkai Forest.”

Mokou pursed her lips. Given how wild it was, the forests of Gensokyo were not to be traveled lightly. The Bamboo Forest of the Lost from which Tewi hailed from was probably the safest, and that one was notorious for perplexing unwary travelers. Everyone knew to never go into the Forest of Magic unless they wanted their blood drank and soul stolen away. In times past and present, it had served as a sanctuary for some of Gensokyo’s most notorious monsters, from Shinji the Silver Tongued to Madam Mima, and the stain of their presence still lingered centuries after their deaths, quite literally in Madam Mima’s case. Even Mokou, who was accustomed to wandering the dangerous corners of the world, preferred to give it a wide berth.

And then there was the Youkai Forest. It wasn’t quite as bad as the Forest of Magic. At least, it didn’t have a reputation to homing any of Gensokyo’s Most Wanted. But it was still plenty dangerous, with many dark spirits and strange ongoings taking place beneath its sunlight-choking canopy. And its borders sat just a little too close to the Children’s Home for Mokou’s comfort. In the past, youkai have ventured out to take orphans. It hadn’t happened for quite a while, and certainly never since Mokou had arrived, but it had happened. And the rest of the Human population wasn’t exactly as mindful about the orphanage’s safety as they once had been.

Tewi’s information might be around fifth-hand, but whenever she took something seriously, she always had good reason to.

“Anything in specific you’ve heard?” Mokou asked. “Any details?”

Tewi shook her head. “Not much. Just that something has got folks in there excited. And, well, look: the youkai in there might be a bunch of morbid weirdoes, but most of them just want to be left alone. Don’t bother them, and they won’t rip your face off and use it as a doily. But there are a few of the really nasty types in there, ones that I think might actually try something.”

“You don’t have to tell me of that sort,” Mokou growled. “Believe me, I know.”

“Yeah, you would, wouldn’t you? Anyway, I don’t know exactly is going down, but…keep an eye out, okay?”

“I will,” Mokou promised. “Thanks.”

“Notta problem.” Tewi hopped off the counter. “If it keeps you happy and not burning things over on our turf.” She picked up her mallet and lantern. “Anyways, Imma split. Try not to burn the place down.”

“That I won’t,” Mokou said as she got the door for her.

Mokou watched as Tewi wandered off into the night. It wasn’t until the light from the lantern had disappeared entirely that she took her eyes off of the road.

Then she glanced off toward the horizon. The Children’s Home was surrounded by mostly rolling fields of grass, which was ideal for the kids. It gave them plenty of room to run around, and made it easier to keep an eye on them.

But beyond that was the gnarled trees and long shadows of the Youkai Forest. And like Tewi said, there were plenty of monsters lurking within.

Mokou ought to know. It wasn’t so long ago that she was counted as one of them.

Usually when the kids were taken to market, Mokou would stay behind. Preparing the day’s meals took a lot of time and work, and even if it didn’t, she hated crowds on principle and never did well with large numbers of other Humans. It just brought back too many bad memories. However, she decided that she just might come along this one time. If something was up, then this was the best to get to the root of things.

…

“All right, children!” Miss Satoko called. She clapped her hands together. “Two lines, that’s it. All together now!”

Most of the children obeyed. Others did not.

Shaking her head, Mokou pressed a couple fingers against her mouth and whistled shrilly.

The rest of the children hurried over to line up.

“Thank you, Mokou,” Miss Satoko said. She nodded to the town guards that had come to escort them. “All right, now let’s go!”

Technically speaking, the orphanage was still within the land claimed by the Human Village and there was little between it and the market other than distance, but that was no excuse to be lax in the orphans’ protection. It would take an especially foolish youkai to attack them this far into Human territory, but unfortunately foolishness was one trait that youkai did not lack in.

As everyone took their places, Rumia stole a glance at the guards. She had never paid them much mind before in trips past, but after what Miss Mokou had said, she was curious.

There was two of them, as always. They looked older than most of the grown-ups that Rumia knew, even older than Miss Haruna. What good they would do if something came at them, she didn’t have the slightest idea. However, they didn’t seem to mind being there at least.

In addition to the guards, three of the grown-ups were going with them as well. Miss Satoko was in the lead as always. She wasn’t as old as Ms. Haruna, but she was still pretty old, with her greying hair tied up in a neat bun tied with a pair of sticks and a well-wrinkled face. She was wearing a red blouse, a black skirt, and had a bamboo kasa on her head.

Walking with her was a man wearing well-worn grey jeans and a white shirt, with a religious symbol hanging from a necklace beneath his shirt. He was Mr. Joshua Stump, the only grown man working at the orphanage. But that wasn’t the only thing that set him apart.

Mr. Joshua was an Outsider, someone who had not been born in Gensokyo but had ended up trapped after wandering in by accident. He certainly looked pretty weird. Apparently the average adult height outside of the Hakurei Barrier was a bit taller than most Genokyians, but Mr. Joshua was short even by local standards, in that Rumia’s eyes were often level with his chin. And his last name was very appropriate, as he looked like a tree stump, with skin so dark that it looked like he had been burnt and thick, gnarled muscle that spoke of a life of physical labor. Apparently he had worked as a construction worker, but didn’t like talking about his past much beyond that. His big black beard was thick and curly, while his eyes were bright brown.

All in all, Mr. Joshua was not exactly what one would call attractive, but Rumia still liked him a lot. He was incredibly nice and fun to play with, and seemed to have limitless tolerance for their jokes. Okay, so his religion was really weird, but that was fine, and he had plenty of great stories. Most of the time he worked as the orphanage’s handyman, repairing anything that needed fixing and improving anything that he could. All things considered, Rumia and the rest kept him very busy.

Next to him was a pretty young woman with a cheery round face, bright blue eyes, and short, curly pink hair. She was wearing a sky-blue robe faded in places to resemble clouds and a wide-brimmed bonnet tied with a pink ribbon. She was Ms. Haruhi Kijoko, who split her time conducting lessons, supervising playtime, and trying to keep the place clean.

Ms. Haruhi had actually grown up in the orphanage, and had opted to stay and help once she had come of age. That just seemed weird to Rumia. She had been free to go wherever she wanted, and she just decided to stay? Forever? Granted, Rumia didn’t have anything against the place; after all, it was the only home she had ever known. But there was a whole world out there. Why wouldn’t anyone want to go see it.

All told, none of them looked especially intimidating. Ms. Satoko was tough, yes, but not especially scary. Ms. Haruhi could be grouchy and stubborn when someone really got on her nerves, but that wouldn’t deter any possible attackers. And sure, Mr. Joshua was strong, but Rumia honestly couldn’t picture him actually fighting anyone.

Then she glanced over to Miss Mokou, who was trailing the group with her hands stuck into the pockets of her baggy red suspenders. Now there was someone who was appropriately scary. Ms. Mokou wasn’t particularly big or muscly, but there was always something about her that felt, well, dangerous. She had a sort of faraway look in her eyes, like she wasn’t really paying attention to anything going on around her, but Rumia knew better. Mokou was keeping track of everything around them. If she had a reason to suspect that something was up, then nothing got past her.

Rumia remembered a time a few months after she, Kohta, and Keine had found Mokou’s badly hurt body in the snow and dragged her back to the house. They had come across her one warm spring afternoon reclining against a tree with her eyes closed, apparently fast asleep. A whispered conversation had followed, a wooden bucket retrieved and filled with water, which was then stealthily taken over to the napping Miss Mokou.

They got as far as lifting it up over her head when she, without moving or even opening her eyes, had murmured, “Don’t even think about it.”

That had raised many questions. Had she really been asleep at all? Was she aware of them the whole time and simply let them get as far as they had just to pull the rug out from under them?

Regardless, they had figured that since they had gotten that far, they might as well go through with it and dump the water anyway. That day had ended with Miss Mokou heading back to the house with a smug look on her face, three bewildered children tucked under her arms, and not a single wet hair on her head.

They still had no idea how she had done it.

But while Rumia certainly felt safer with Miss Mokou around than with the decrepit guards, she was very curious as to why the cook was going along in the first place. Miss Mokou never went to market with the rest of them. Hell, Rumia couldn’t remember her ever even leaving the orphanage since she had shown up.

So she decided to ask her.

Rumia hung back a bit until the rest of the girl’s line has passed her up and Miss Mokou was next to her. “So,” Rumia said. “Why’re you coming along?”

Miss Mokou looked amused. “Why? Worried I’ll bust whatever little heist you’re planning today?”

“Nah, no plans like that today,” Rumia said. “Too many people. But even so, you never go to market. Why today?”

Miss Mokou shrugged. “Had a bad feeling. Figured someone might try something today, so might as well be there to put a stop to it.”

“Is that so.”

“Yup.”

“Uh, what someone, exactly?”

“Dunno,” Miss Mokou said. “They haven’t done it yet.” She then gave the back of Rumia’s shoulders a gentle shove. “Now stop lagging.”

Sighing, Rumia hurried back to her place in front of Keine and next to Kohta.

In times past, they would go to the big market inside of the Human Village. In times past, they would have at least six guards show up to escort them, and they tended to be young and tough looking. But for some reason, they had stopped letting the orphans in, so they had to go to the smaller general market that was more-or-less in the center of the Human lands. It was there that people from the smaller towns, villages, and hamlets would go to buy and sell. No one had really explained why that had changed or why the quality of guards had dropped. There had just been a few months without any market trips, and when they started up again it was at a different market.

A lot of the other kids had been disappointed. Haruko especially had thrown a fit. Apparently she had had her eye on a crystal comb in the shape of a multi-colored butterfly that she had been saving up for that she now would never get to buy. Rumia, however, had actually liked the change. Sure, the trinkets sold there weren’t as pretty and everything seemed second-rate in comparison, but it was filled with folks who lived out in the rougher parts of Gensokyo, places that were closer to the wild magic. As such, things were a whole lot weirder.

The market was set up as sort of a long road bordered by makeshift wooden frames draped with cloths, furs, or leather, forming two rows of tents. And along the tents were several stalls set up by anyone who did most of their business there, while those who didn’t have enough merchandise to justify a stall wandered around with full bags or loaded backs. Food stalls sold freshly harvested vegetables, caught fish, slaughtered meats, bags of rice, baked bread, sweet treats, or fully cooked meals. Some stalls sold clothing, some sold tools, others sold raw materials such as lumber or glass or brick. There were even a few that specialized in things other than the essentials, though those were in the minority.

Kohta nudged Rumia and Keine and pointed. One stall was dedicated to hand-carved wooden toys. They were rougher than the kind found within the village market and were unpainted, but that didn’t make them any less cool.

And one in particular had drawn their attention the last time they were there, that of a big, fat animal with big flapping ears, a tiny little tail, a stupidly long nose, and two big horns coming out of its mouth.

Back at the orphanage, there was a worn picture book called Roy’s Big Top Mystery. Apparently it had come from the outside world, and it took place in a very weird looking type of festival that they had outside of the Hakurei Barrier called a “circus.” Rumia and her friends had always been entranced by the images of colorful tents, flashing games, gaudily dressed performers, and exotic animals, the likes of which weren’t seen in Gensokyo.

One in particular was called an “elephant.” Rumia had half-expected it to just be a tale, a mythical beast added to the book to give it a bit of flavor. However, Mr. Joshua had confirmed that elephants were very much real.

That had been an eye-opener. Rumia had been told by Mr. Joshua and Melissa Garcia that magic was in very short supply in the Outside World, and that people there would consider Gensokyo to be a mythical land full of wonders. But the Outside World had elephants! What fairies compared to that?

At any rate, over the last year or so she and her friends had been working on a personal project: make a circus of their own. They had built tents from sticks and paper decorated with wildflowers and filled it with people made from the same materials. None of it ever looked particularly realistic, but screw it, it was good enough for them. Still, having a genuine elephant would definitely bring the whole thing together.

She turned toward Kohta and Keine. “Okay,” she said. “Got yours?”

Kohta nodded and pulled out a bag of coins out of his pocket. Keine took out one of her own. Rumia took out hers. Spending money was hard to come by in the orphanage, but between the three of them they had managed to pull together enough to get their little circus its own elephant.

Rumia carefully counted out the collected coins. Then she hurried over to the stall.

The toy merchant was leaning back on his stool and smoking a long-stemmed pipe with his eyes closed. Rumia stoop on her tiptoes to peer over the stall. “Um, excuse me!” she said, waving her hand back and forth. “Hello!”

The merchant opened his eyes. Then when he saw who had interrupted his rest his brow deepened into a scowl.

“What?”

Rumia dumped the coins onto the counter. “We’ll take the big fat guy!” she said, pointing at the elephant.

The merchant looked at her, then to the small pile of coins, and then at the wooden animal. “Where did you get this money?” he said.

“Does it matter?” Rumia said, and a little indignantly at that. Sure, the three of them could be a little grabby with things that technically did not belong to them, but they had earned their savings the honest way. Specifically, through a collection of odd jobs and errands done for the caretakers, and as someone who was principally opposed to that level of degradation, Rumia felt that they had earned every last bit. “Money’s money!”

The merchant pushed the coins around with his finger. Then he shrugged. “Sorry kid. This ain’t enough.”

“What?” Kohta said. “Wait, the last time we were here you said it cost four thousand five hundred yen! And we have four thousand five hundred yen!”

“That was then,” the merchant said as he leaned back again. “This is now. Price went up to seven thousand yen!”

“Wha-No it didn’t!” Rumia sputtered. “You’re just saying that because you don’t like us!”

The merchant used his palm to swipe their hard-earned coins off the counter and onto the ground. “Beat it, youkai-tainted.”

Next to Rumia, Keine went stiff.

“What,” Rumia said, “did you call us?”

“I said beat it! Don’t make me call the market guards.”

Rumia opened her mouth to fully earn getting dragged away, but then Keine grabbed her by the arm. “Let’s just go,” Keine whispered.

Kohta’s clenched fist was shaking. “Are you just gonna let this-”

“Kohta!” Keine hissed. “It’s not worth it. Let’s go!”

“You heard your friend,” the merchant said, shooing them away. “Get lost.”

To be perfectly frank, Rumia would rather get dragged away and kicked out of the market for good than to willingly submit and retreat with her tail tucked between her legs. The thought of that kind of humiliation was almost too much to bear.

But while she was perfectly fine with getting into trouble for the sake of her pride, causing a commotion would draw too much attention to them, to Keine.

And they weren’t about to risk blowing her secret.

Though her face was burning so hot that steam had to be coming out of her ears, Rumia bit back the torrent of verbal abuse she wished to unleash. So she just knelt down and started to pick up the fallen coins out of the dirt. Kohta and Keine helped her get them back into the bag, and the three of them walked away.

It wasn’t until they were fully out of the merchant’s earshot that Kohta muttered, “That sucked.”

“No shit,” Rumia responded.

“Do you think he, uh, knows?”

Rumia glanced at Keine, who was staring down at the ground. “No. I think this is what Miss Mokou was talking about. You know, about idiots?”

“Why though? What’d we ever do to them?”

“Who knows? They’re stupid. Stupid people don’t need a reason to be stupid.”

“Well, I think it’s obvious!”

The three of them stopped. Then their faces twisted into scowls of annoyance and they all turned.

Their mortal enemies were there. Haruko was smirking at them with her arms folded, Hayate standing to her left with one hand on her hip and Eiko snickering at her right.

“We saw what happened,” Haruko said. “And you know what? I get it. That guy didn’t want you driving off all his customers with your ugly faces!”

“Piss of, Haruko,” Rumia snapped. As a retort, it fell short of her normal standards, but she was in a bad mood.

“Hey, hey, hey, chill out!” Eiko said. “Don’t get mad just because the people here have standards!”

“Then why are you still here?” Kohta said. “I mean, anyone that knows better would’ve tossed your ugly asses out from the start!”

“Hmph.” Haruko gave her auburn hair a flick. “That’s obvious too. They know class when they see it.”

“Then prove it!” Rumia said. “You try to buy something!”

“I will!” Haruko said in a haughty tone. “As a matter of fact, there’s something I’ve had my eye on for a while! Just watch.”

The three of them sauntered off to a nearby cosmetics stall, one that sold things like ribbons to perfumes to really shiny makeup.

“Um, Rumia?” Keine said. “How is this going to prove anything?”

“Just watch,” Rumia said.

“But what if it’s just that guy? I mean, the other stalls probably aren’t like him too.”

Rumia didn’t say anything. She just waited.

Much like Rumia had done earlier at the toy stall, Haruko waved her hand to get the attention of the proprietors, this one a gaudily dressed woman wearing more ribbons that she probably had on display.

As Rumia watched, Haruko pointed to a long ribbon of white silk. She pulled a handful of notes out of her pocket and offered them to the woman.

The woman looked at her, at the comb, and then Haruko. Then she rolled her eyes and said something that looked biting.

Rumia couldn’t help but smirk as Haruko stiffened in shock. Then she and her friends began arguing. Though the actual words were hard to make out over the babble of the market, Rumia was able to catch the words, “Stupid fat cow!” and, “Go and boil your head!”

The next moment, a large man seemed to appear out of nowhere. He placed himself between

“Um, excuse…us. What is happening at this place?”

It was two more girls from the orphanage, specifically Melissa Garcia and Kana Anaberal. Melissa was the only child there that technically wasn’t an orphan, but instead had originally come from the Outside World and had gotten stuck in Gensokyo. As she had no other place left to go, the orphanage had taken her in. And because she hadn’t been born in Gensokyo, she looked…weird. Despite being only a year older than Rumia and her friends, she was a full head taller, and her skin was almost as dark as Mr. Joshua’s. Plus, she didn’t speak a lick of Japanese when she had first arrived. She did okay now, but talking to people still took some effort.

Next to her was the closest Melissa had to a best friend, a small, pale girl with long and curly blonde hair. Kana Anaberal was, to put it bluntly, a weirdo. She always seemed to be in a different place than everyone else, staring at things that weren’t there and talking about things that had nothing to do with anything that was going on. Rumia didn’t dislike her exactly, but just talking to her was a mentally taxing experience.

“The…the store people will not speak to us,” Melissa said. “They say…go away. They not…they do not let us buy.”

“Perhaps it is the fairy dust,” Kana said without looking at anyone in particular.

“Yeah, same with us,” Kohta said. “Looks like they don’t-Wait. Hold on. What fairy dust?”

In answer, Kana held up both palms, which were covering with tiny sparkling grains of something, like glass sand. “This. Maybe they are allergic?”

“Uh…” Rumia and her friends all glanced at one another. “Why are you hands covered with fairy dust?”

“To help me fly! We start flying lessons soon, do we not?”

“Er, well, yeah,” Keine said. “But I don’t think fairy dust will help.”

“Oh, I think it will.”

“Where did you even get that?” Rumia said. “You’re not tearing off fairy wings, aren’t you?”

“From the kitchen,” Kana said. “They have lots!”

“What?”

“It is not fairy, uh, dust,” Melissa said in exasperation. “It is just sugar.”

“Sugar is fairy dust,” Kana said. “Same thing, really.”

“No,” Rumia said.

“Yes,” Kana said. She smiled.

“Um, all right,” Rumia said, blinking. “Sure. Why not?” She then looked back to Melissa. “And we don’t know. They did the same to us and to Haruko and her friends. I guess they don’t like us here.”

Melissa sighed. “That is…shame. I was hoping to try magic box, but they will not let me even look at it!”

“Magic…box?”

Melissa pointed at a stall that offered items of a more mystical persuasion. Most of it seemed to be practical stuff like charms, wards, and blank spellcards, but they also had a handful of more exotic wares, like that silver wand encased in glass or that egg-shaped thing that glimmered with a myriad of different colors.

As for the box in question, it was a green chest the size of a woman’s jewelry box encased with bronze that sat upon the counter.

“Well, they probably have a point,” Rumia said dubiously. “I mean, it’s probably cursed.”

Melissa frowned. “Then why is just out there like that?”

“Maybe it’s a small curse? Like, the kind that just causes minor annoyances, like your foot gets a bitch of an itch on every other week or everything you eat tastes like it’s been left out overnight?”

Then they heard a sharp cackle. Standing nearby in the alley formed by two tents was an old, old woman, withered and hunched over. Most of her features were shrouded in a heavy black cloak, and she walked with the support of a gnarled cane.

“Is it magic you’re seeking, my little sweets?” the cloaked woman said. “Well, today is a most fortuitous day, for I have all the magic you could ever want!”

…

Something was off, and unfortunately Satoko knew exactly what it was.

As she stood off to the side to keep an eye on the children, she saw how they were being treated. In visits past, everyone had been more than happy to see them. The stallkeepers had enjoyed putting on a show for the children, offering silly discounts and the occasional free sample or sweet offering. Storytellers had regaled them with tales, while small-time magicians had shown off their tricks.

No longer. Now they were being turned away one right after the other. Satoko watched the merchants get gruff and unfriendly when they saw her kids in their grey uniforms. She saw the furrowed brows and whispers going on. She saw it out.

And the sad part was that this wasn’t the first time this had happened. It had been the same at the Human Village, in the weeks leading up to their eventual banning from entering.

Satoko wanted to go right up to those merchants and give them a piece of her mind. In fact, she had done just that the first time around. It hadn’t helped, and had only sped up their banishment, but someone had to say something.

However, now she knew better. Going after the locals would only be attacking the symptoms. She needed to go right after the cause.

She still had some friends in the Human Village. Not many, but they slipped her news of the comings and goings. And they had let her know that a certain someone was going to be making a rare trip outside the walls to this particular market today. He didn’t do that often, so she had made sure to schedule the orphanage’s trip for today.

Satoko let her eyes unfocus and drift over the crowd, not zeroing in on anyone in particular while taking note of anything that stood out.

Then she saw him.

Across the sea of stalls, wares, and faces, a short man with dark, curling hair and a protruding belly was walking around the stalls that specialized in sweets and snacks, eyeing the merchandise without ever actually buying anything. Not that he needed to, as one of the bakers had already given him a large honeycake to munch on for free. He was dressed in a dark blue robe and had on a tall, white hat trimmed with gold lace, one that was specifically tailored to hide the ever-increasing bald spot on the top of his head. Accompanying him were four guards who were considerably younger and more fit than the ones who had shown up to escort the children.

Satoko pursed her lips. Then she walked over to Mokou.

For her part, Mokou was staying in the shadows of one of the tents, out of sight. By the look of things she had also noticed how everything seemed off, and was probably thinking of doing something about it.

“Hey,” she said as Satoko approached. “Things usually this, ah, tense?”

Satoko shook her head. “It’s been getting worse, but no. This is new.”

“Want me to do something about it?”

“Not unless someone actually threatens the kids. We might have to leave early regardless. However, I might just have enough time to see to the root cause.” Satoko pointed.

Mokou peered over the heads of the crowd to see what she was pointing at. “Ah. Got it.” She smiled. “Well, go and kick his ass. I’ll keep an eye on things.”

Nodding her thanks, Satoko headed off to take care of business.

If she was spotted approaching, no doubt the entire entourage would make a hasty exit. So she ducked away from the main market lane and snuck behind the tents and stalls. No one paid her much heed as she hurried along, her head and shoulders bowed low.

Sure enough, when she did step back onto the main lane, her target had his back to her. He was speaking with a man and a woman that looked like they were farmers, no doubt to “hear” their concerns about something or another and offer up pretty words of sympathy and empty promises. What was more, his guards were mostly paying attention to the couple, and had not seen her yet.

Good.

The short man patted the taller farmer on the shoulder and said something. The two farmers bowed low and started to walk away, still nibbling on his cake

Seeing her chance, Satoko strode forward and called out, “Master Sonozika!”

Master Gendou Sonozika, the Leader of the Human Village and, by extension, the rest of Gensokyo’s Human population, instinctively turned toward her. When he saw who it was, his doughy face, already shining with sweat, turned pale, and the cake fell out of his hands. He started to turn away to bustle out of sight.

Oh, no he didn’t.

“Master Sonozika, wait!” Satoko called as she quickened her pace. Immediately Gendou Sonozika’s guards placed themselves between him and her, hands on the hilts of their swords.

However, Satoko was not to be deterred so easily. “Master Sonozika, I have been trying to gain an audience with you for months!” she called over the large men’s shoulders. “You’re not going to duck me any further!”

“I’m busy!” he shouted over his shoulder. “I’m a very busy man, so you can just wait your turn like everyone-”

“You coward!” Satoko shouted.

The general hubbub of the market had lowered when Satoko had first started shouting. This killed the rest entirely, as everyone, purveyor and purchaser alike, all turned to stare at the drama unfolding. Those who knew who Satoko was and why she was directly calling out the Human Leader in public were as entranced as the children were with the storyteller’s tale at the other end of the market, while those who didn’t were watching with both confusion and interest, eager to see what the fuss was all about.

As for Master Sonozika, he froze in mid-step. He was a lot of things, but thick-skinned was not one of them. Satoko knew enough about him through their increasingly infrequent dealings to know how much he hated being embarrassed, especially in front of everyone.

Sure enough, when he slowly turned toward her, his sweaty and pasty face had now turned bright red with indignation.

“Excuse me?” he said.

“You heard me!” Satoko called back. “Are you really so scared of an aging woman trying to take care of a bunch of parentless children that you won’t even hear her out?”

The shade of Gendou’s face darkened, and he looked about ready to order her to be carried off. But then he glanced at what was happening around him.

The onlookers were starting to whisper amongst themselves, and Satoko found that she was able to tell who was from the Human Village and who dwelt in one of the smaller settlements. By and large, those who hailed from the species’ capital looked annoyed by the insult. How dare she, they were no doubt thinking. How dare she openly insult the Leader like that? She knew well why he was refusing to speak with her. She had his answer, she knew why, so she ought to just accept it with grace!

But those who lived outside of the Human Village’s walls were of a different sort of mind. She saw several disapproving glances and scowls directed toward Master Sonozika as well. The last few years had brought along several changes to how the Humans interacted with their neighbors, and not all were in agreement. It was a little ironic, in that those who were most frequently at the mercy of Gensokyo’s wild denizens and thus were susceptible to various superstitions were actually less controlled by the fear of them. Sure, many of them could get on board with the strict anti-youkai rhetoric Master Sonozika often spouted. Even Satoko had found herself hard pressed to disagree, considering that her life was devoted to protecting the victims of youkai attacks. But what many of them could never understand is why that rhetoric extended to those victims.

Regardless, the challenge had been thrown down, and now everyone was watching. Gendou’s guards could stop Satoko from physically reaching him, but there was no blocking her words.

Gendou bristled, but he managed to refrain from lashing out. “Fine,” he growled. “But not here.” He pointed toward a nearby tent. “There.”

He stomped toward the tent, and thankfully the guards moved to let Satoko through. Sighing with nervous relief, she hurried after him, with the guards taking position outside the entrance.

Inside the tent several middle-aged men were sitting in a circle, playing a game that involved tossing several multi-colored clumps of herbs into a fire and taking bets on which color the resulting puff of smoke would take. They looked up in irritation as Master Sonozika and Satoko entered.

“Hey, this is a private-” one of them started to say, but then the words caught in his throat when he recognized the intruder. “Oh. Uh, M-Master Sonozika! This is an-”

“Out!” Master Sonozika barked.

He didn’t need to tell them twice. The group hastily obeyed, taking their herbs and money with them but leaving the fire. Master Sonozika sighed and extended his hand toward the flame. A bubble of condensed vacuum shot from his fingers to envelop the fire, swallowing all of the oxygen and snuffing it out. It then filled with the resulting cloud of smoke and rose up through the hole in the ceiling, leaving nothing but smoldering embers.

“All right, woman,” Master Sonozika growled as he sat down across from the fire’s remains. “You have your audience, waste of time though it may be. Say your piece so we can both go back to where we belong.”

Satoko was a very patient and very tolerant woman. One didn’t devote one’s life to looking after so many children without building up a healthy reserve of both. But there were certain attitudes for which she had neither. “You haven’t even heard what I want to say,” she said.

“Why should I?” Master Sonozika demanded. “I already know what it is. You want permission to move your entire orphanage inside the Human Village’s walls. And I already told you that we simply do not have-”

“You’ve expanded the Village’s borders twice in the last five years,” Satoko interrupted. “Twice! And I happen to know for a fact that the Human Village’s population growth isn’t anywhere near large enough to justify all that space.”

“It’s not just space, and do not interrupt me again if you want this conversation to continue,” Master Sonozika warned. “It’s also a matter of resources. If I recall, you’re looking after, what, nineteen of them?”

“Eighteen,” Satoko corrected.

“Eighteen then. Plus you, plus your…associates. That’s over twenty bodies, over twenty hungry mouths, all thrown into our community all at once!”

Satoko sighed. “I’m not asking you to feed them,” she said, though yes, that would have been appreciated. “We get by on our own, and can keep doing so. I’m just asking that you allow us the protection that literally everyone else gets. These children are the only ones that aren’t allowed in! Why? We’d been talking for years about moving the orphanage into the Village, but all of a sudden you just shut that down, refuse to let them even come in to visit, and won’t even see me to tell me why!”

Master Sonozika’s sagging jowls clenched up. “Do not presume to speak to me in such-”

“It was your idea! You were the one to suggested bringing the Children’s Home into the Village, remember? You told me that it was your responsibility to look after all Humans, especially youkai victims! What changed, Gendou? What changed?”

To this, Master Sonozika said nothing. He just glared.

“It was that man, isn’t it?” Satoko said.

There was a pause, and then Gendou said, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

“I knew it,” Satoko sighed. “Ever since he showed up with his angry ideas and angry religion-”

“The Human Village opens its arms to all faiths!” Master Sonozika said. “Even the strange ones from the Outside!”

“So do I! One of them works at the orphanage, and you won’t find a kinder, more gentle soul! But the version spoken of by that man Skinner, all this talk of curses and taints and judgments, how can that be good?”

“Nathaniel Skinner has been nothing but a boon to the Human Village,” Master Sonozika said primly. “We may not share the same, ah, theologies, but I trust his judgment.”

“His judgment? That children that have lost their families to youkai attacks are somehow cursed? That letting them in the Village will spread this supposed curse?”

“Youkai are wily beasts,” Master Sonozika said in a prim tone. “You ought to know, you practically live among them.”

Satoko nearly snapped at him about how not all youkai were malicious monsters, that many were at worse just playful and mischievous, that many were in fact quite benevolent, but she didn’t. What good would it do to someone as pigheaded as Gendou Sonozika? “And one would think that someone who-” she stopped herself half-a-second before the word fear slipped from her tongue, “mistrusts youkai as you would be more sympathetic to their victims,” she said instead. “Most of these children lost their families to youkai attacks. You ought to be protecting them, to be sheltering them, not casting them out! How can you claim to protect Humans from the threat of youkai if you won’t lift a finger to help their most obvious victims?”

Anger flared up in Gendou Sonozika’s beady little eyes. “By reminding myself that I am responsible for Humanity as a whole, and not just a small handful. Sometimes, a limb must be lopped off to prevent the spread of infection. It is regrettable, yes, but I serve the greater good, and in service of that good, sometimes sacrifices must be made.”

Satoko Yume was not a violent person. Oh, she was not afraid to fight when provoked, and few things were more provoking than threatening the safety of her kids, but she was not given to violent urges. But she had never wanted to ball her fingers into a fist and thrust that first into the infuriating face of another Human more than she did at that moment in time.

She didn’t, though less out of principle and more out of the knowledge that doing so would only make things worse for her and her family. So instead, she yanked back on all of that anger, keeping it from bursting out, and reformed it, molding it from a red-hot explosion of fury into something sharper, something more focused, turning the flame into venom.

“It has been my experience,” Satoko said, lacing every syllable with that venom. “That those who speak of the necessity of making sacrifices never think to include themselves as possible sacrifices. Only others.”

“Satoko, do not-”

“And what if it was your family, your children, that was afflicted with this curse, this taint? Would you be so quick to sacrifice them as well?”

Gendou Sonozika abruptly stood up. “Enough,” he growled.

Satoko was on her feet as well, but a moment later she realized that one word was more than just a command, it was a signal to the guards waiting outside, because moments later she felt thick, strong hands wrap themselves around her slender biceps.

Still, she didn’t break gaze with the Human Leader, and though it was childish, she did take some small petty pleasure over how much he had to incline his head to meet her gaze.

“This conversation,” he seethed through clenched teeth, “is over. The answer is no, and it’s always going to be no. Do not waste my time again.”

A few seconds ticked by, and then Satoko bowed her head. “Of course,” she said. “My…apologies.” She stared at the smear of honey still on his upper lip. “I can, of course, see how valuable your time is.”

…

“Look at this, my sweet little thing,” the shrouded woman cooed. From within her cloak she withdrew a necklace. Its centerpiece was a clear crystal in the shape of a teardrop set in a cage made from loops of gold. “The secret to eternal life.”

Rumia quirked an eyebrow. The necklace was certainly pretty, but that was quite the claim. She glanced over to Kohta, who looked just as incredulous as she was, and then to Keine, who seemed a little more interested.

Kana, however, was absolutely fascinated. “Oh, is that so?” she said. “It’s so pretty!”

“Ah, it is, isn’t it?” The shrouded woman’s hand gently ran over the golden crystal, caressing its facets. “But its value lies not in its beauty, but in what it provides! Life after death, for as long as you like.”

“Wait, hold up,” Kohta said. “You just said that this thing’ll give us eternal life. Now you’re saying that we’ll dies anyway?”

The shrouded woman shrugged. “What is death, but a natural transition from one state of being to another? When our bodies expire, our souls depart for the River Suzune to be taken to be judged. But what if they didn’t? What if, after leaving our bodies, we could stay? Thinks about it. You’d never have to leave your friends, never have to worry about getting sick or growing old. You would get to be good little girls and good little boys. Forever.”

“As ghosts,” Rumia said flatly.

Melissa shot her a confused look. “I am…sorry. I do not know this word. What is…ghosts?”

“Really, Melissa? Out of all the words…” Rumia sighed. “Um, ghosts. You know, souls of dead people walking around.” She wiggled her fingers in the air. “Ooooooooooo!”

Melissa’s eyes widened. “Oh! El fantasma! These are…” Her face scrunched up as she mentally searched for the right word. “These are real here?”

Kohta rolled his eyes.

“Real?” For a second the shrouded lady dropped her weird, singsong way of talking and just sounded confused. “Of course they’re real. My grandma used to have to clear the damned things out of her cellar all the time. Why wouldn’t they be real?”

“For shit’s sake,” Kohta muttered.

“She’s…from the Outside World,” Rumia told her. “I guess they don’t have ghosts there.”

“We…We do!” Melissa said, albeit a bit defensively. “But mostly in, um, what is the word, stories, right?”

“Right.”

“Yes, in stories! I have never seen them though.”

“Yeah, well, you’re lucky then. Seriously though, who would want to be a ghost? They just wander around annoying people. Which, okay, would be fun for like a week, but after that…”

“Oh, I don’t know,” Kana mused. “It seems like a fine time!

“Ah! But you see, that this the genius of this magic crystal. For most ghosts are merely wicked spirits that refused to cross the River Suzune and thus degraded, losing all sense of who and what they were. Who would want to go on such a state?”

“Not all of them,” Keine said. “Poltergeists don’t.”

“Polter-what?” Melissa said.

“Keine, seriously?” Kohta said.

“You understand!” The shrouded lady jabbed a finger at Keine and cackled. “Yes, poltergeists keep their shape, their names, and their memories. But they are mere shades, copies of those who have passed! The souls have still passed on.” She lovingly pressed the crystal against her cheek and sighed. “But with this…with this, you need not fear this at all! With this enchantment, a poltergeist will still be created from your death, yes, but it will contain your soul! The two will remain one forever and ever, and you will never-”

“-ever come near these kids again if you know what’s good for you,” growled Miss Mokou as she seized the shrouded lady by the back of her cloak and lifted her high into the air with one hand. “Because if you do, you’re gonna find out just how well that little bauble of yours works. And given the quality of most of the crap around here, I don’t think that’s a die you wanna throw. Got it?”

Rumia, Kohta, and Keine all blanched. Where in the hell had she come from? One moment it had just been them, and the next Miss Mokou was simply there, filling the space behind the cloaked woman.

Then Rumia noticed something else out of place. While the woman had first approached them at the opening of the alley, they were now almost all the way down its length. She had been leading them away from the market as they talked, and they hadn’t even noticed. As someone who prided herself in the fine art of trickery, Rumia was both impressed and deeply freaked out.

Judging by the panicked look on the cloaked woman’s face, it was clear that she was just as taken by surprise as they all were. “Let me go!” she squealed as she futilely swung her hands about. “Let me go or I swear-”

Then she caught sight of Miss Mokou’s face. “You!” she gasped.

Miss Mokou’s eyes flashed. And by that, she didn’t just get even more angry. No, they literally flashed, sparks shooting through her maroon corneas like a stone striking flint. “Good, you recognize me,” she said as she gripped the cloaked woman’s face with her other hand, squeezing the cheeks and holding her jaw shut. “Then you probably know the sort of things I’m good at. So I’m gonna give you this one warning: you run off now and never, ever come near any of these kids again, or you get to find out firsthand how true the stories are. Understand?”

The cloaked woman quickly nodded.

Miss Mokou released just a little pressure on her face. “I want to hear you say it.”

“I understand!” the cloaked woman squeaked. “I’ll leave them alone, I swear!”

“Good.” Then Miss Mokou hurled her all the way down the alley. “Now get!”

The cloaked woman hastily gathered herself up and scampered away. Also, she had suddenly lost the hunch in her back and the need for her cane.

Rumia was struck speechless. She knew that that Miss Mokou had a nasty past. She knew that she was probably a scary person. But she had never thought that she was that scary.

The others were just as stunned. And terrified.

Miss Mokou was panting heavily. Not from exertion though. Rather, she seemed to be working very hard to pull something back, as if just scaring that woman had almost let something out, something she had been straining to conceal this whole time.

Rumia exchanged uncomfortable looks with Kohta. Melissa was literally shaking in her shoes. Even Kana, who never seemed to be on the same page as anyone, was cowering behind Kohta.

As for Keine, she nervously cleared her throat and ventured with, “Uh, M-Miss Mokou…”

Miss Mokou held up a palm, stopping her. She straightened up and squeezed her eyes shut. Every muscle in her body went tense.

Rumia involuntarily braced herself.

But then Miss Mokou relaxed. She let out the breath she had been holding in a long, belabored sigh. She didn’t open her eyes though. “Okay,” she said, her voice calm but incredibly scary. “Now, whose dumbass idea was it to separate from the rest of the group and go off with the creepy old lady and potentially end the day baked into a pie crust?”

Rumia reflexively started to raise her hand, as did Kohta and Keine. But Kana suddenly stepped forward. “It was me,” she admitted.

Rumia stared at her in surprise, and she wasn’t the only one. Even Miss Mokou seemed taken back by Kana’s sudden bout of lunacy.

“She said she knew how to make someone live forever,” Kana said. “And, well, with all the things I’ve been hearing about how the youkai have us marked, I thought…” She scuffed the ground with her shoe. “Well, I thought…”

All of the anger went out of Miss Mokou’s face. “Oh, for the love of-” Then she sighed and knelt down in front of Kana. Placing a hand on the blonde girl’s shoulder, Miss Mokou said, “Look, Kana. You’re going to hear people say a lot of things, and most of it is totally stupid. I’ve heard people talk too, about how just because youkai got your families it means that you are somehow tainted. And guess what? It’s all bullshit, a dumb story made up by dumb people. There are dangerous youkai out there, yes, but they’re after any of you more than anyone else. Even the meanest, nastiest ones are just looking for an easy meal, and they won’t bother you if you stay where it’s safe.”

Kana looked less than reassured. “Okay. But-”

“Also, if someone starts talking to you about living forever, that’s a sure sign that they’re full of crap,” Miss Mokou continued. “Ninety-nine percent of the time it’s just some obvious scam that ends up getting some overconfident fool killed anyway while the person who sold it to them runs away laughing. And even in the one percent of times that it’s legit…” The muscles in Miss Mokou’s jaw tightened. “Well. Living forever isn’t like the stories made it out to be.”

“But dying is worse!” Kana blurted out. “You can be the best person ever, you can take care of yourself and do everything healthy, but you still die, and then everyone you love is left alone! How is that fair?”

Miss Mokou sighed. “It ain’t. None of it is. But neither is being the one left alone after everyone you love is gone.” She took Kana by the hand. “Come on, kids. Forget this nonsense about living forever, and for the love of all that is sane, if you’re worried about dying, then don’t follow creepy freaks into alleys! That’s like one of the first rules about self-preservation, which is something you all could stand to have a little more of.”

…

Joshua Stump looked at the list in his hand. Haruhi was taking care of food, Mokou was supposed to be handling the fabrics, so he had been given responsibility of the odds and ends.

And there were quite a few. They needed nails, paint, more lumber, as well as cigarettes for Mokou. He couldn’t stand the smell of the things and didn’t know why she liked them so much, but that was her business, and as far as he was concerned she had earned the right to her vices.

As Joshua wandered the stalls, he took a turn that brought him through a sort of alleyway between two tents. And as he did, he found himself running into the principle reason for his dislike of tobacco.

He smelled him before he saw him, the thick, cloying scent of cigar smoke mixed with the sickly sweet stench of patchoulis, with just a hint of sweat. It was a bizarre mixture, and not in the slightest bit pleasant.

Joshua winced. He knew that he ought not shun another brother in Christ, especially considering how few of them there were in Gensokyo, but there was something about Nathaniel Skinner that made him profoundly uncomfortable.

Then a heavy hand sheathed in a thick leather glove clapped him on the shoulder. “Ah, brother Joshua!” Skinner said in his deep, smooth voice. “I was hoping to see you here.”

Sighing, Joshua turned around.

Nathaniel Skinner was, like Joshua, an Outsider, someone who had been born outside of Gensokyo only to later wander in and become stuck. He was a white man from America apparently, one that would have been considered noticeably tall back home, but here, where the average height was several centimeters shorter, he towered over everyone. He had a thick, golden beard, a ruddy complexion, and piercing blue eyes that he had recently taken to shrouding with a pair of round-lensed sunglasses. As always, he was wearing a long, brown trench coat; brown gloves, a brown hat with a wide brim; thick brown boots; a white shirt; and blue jeans. Around his neck hung a large silver crucifix, though unlike Joshua’s this one was not empty and a tiny Jesus hanging suspended from it, his arms outstretched and his face twisted into a cry of pure agony. One gloved hand was clutching it tightly.

“Nathaniel,” Joshua said with as much warmth as he could muster.

Skinner smiled. “Brother Nathaniel,” he corrected. “That is what we are, is we not?”

He moved to embrace Joshua. Joshua, who had been anticipating this, tolerated and returned the gesture.

“Of course,” Joshua said. “So, what brings you here? You’re not usually one to go to market.”

Skinner placed his hands on his hips and sighed. “No, I’m not. Actually, I rarely leave the Human Village these days.”

“So I’ve heard.”

“Have you?” Skinner reached up with one hand and took off his sunglasses, revealing his pale blue eyes. Joshua frankly wished that he had left them on. “I imagine you’ve been hearing some other things as well.”

Joshua shrugged. “Well, I heard you’ve become very close with Master Sonozika. He seems to value your opinion.”

Tapping his folded-up sunglasses against his palm, Skinner glanced out through the alley at the people. “Well, yes. Gendou is…a surprisingly smart man for someone native to this…this place. Very perceptive. That’s why I’m here, actually. He asked me to accompany him, to take a look at things and offer my…opinion.”

“Oh? Looking to spread the good news, then?”

Skinner’s brow furrowed up in puzzlement. “Pardon?”

“The good news,” Joshua repeated. “Of Jesus Christ.”

There was a pause, and then Skinner put his sunglasses back on. “Oh. Of course. Always.” He glanced back at the crowd and sighed. “Walk with me, Brother Joshua.”

The two Outsiders moved away from the bustle of the crowd. As they did, Skinner said, “Have you given any thought to my suggestions?”

Joshua sighed. “You mean, leave the orphanage, move into the Village, be part of your, um, your…”

“Church,” Skinner said. “Fellowship. Brotherhood.”

“Right. That.”

“There are so few Christians here in this…this forsaken country. We need to stick together, you know. Safety in numbers. And strength.”

Safety. Strength. Words of a threatened man. “I see.”

“I’ve been slowly building a congregation there. Most don’t want to hear the Gospel. They keep to their backwater superstitions and shut out the Word.”

“Well, it’s hard to blame them,” Joshua said. “I mean, you call them superstitions, but when you can actually go up to one of their gods and introduce yourself…”

Skinner came to an abrupt stop.

“Theirs gods…” Skinner repeated in disbelief. “There is one God, Brother Joshua. Only one.”

Joshua sighed. “Of course.”

“These spirits of theirs, these gods and fairies and youkai…you know, there is a word for a spirits not aligned with the Father.”

Maybe so, but it did seem that most of the local “demons” did more to help the orphanage than the actual Humans. Donations and other forms of support from the Human Village had been on a steep decline over the last few years. Right.

“You would do well to remember that,” Skinner continued. “That’s why I think you ought to join me. I worry about you, you know. You are often in my prayers.”

The opposite was true as well, though Joshua doubted that Skinner’s prayers for him used the same language.

“Oh?” Joshua said.

Skinner nodded. “Having someone as strong in their faith as you around would be…be helpful, yes, but you live so far out in the Wilds, out in those savage and untamed lands, with so many wicked spirits about. It’s dangerous, Brother Joshua. The Human Village…” He shrugged. “Well, it’s not exactly Philadelphia, but it’s the best that this godforsaken place has. Out there…you never know when the demonic forces might come calling.”

Right. It was time to stop beating around the bush. “Well now, as it so happens, Satoko’s been pushing to move the orphanage inside the Village,” Joshua said. “You know, she believes as you do, that it’s just too dangerous to have all those children so far from civilization.” He smiled. “Unfortunately, she hasn’t had much success with that, but seeing how Master Sonozika seems to value you advice so much, perhaps you could put in a word for her?”

As predicted, Skinner was less than enthused by the suggestion. “And bring those children,” he said, staring.

“Yes.”

“Inside the Village.”

“Uh, yes. That would be the point.”

Skinner slowly shook his head. “Brother Joshua, I was referring to you specifically.”

Joshua finally let some of the anger he had felt building seep into his voice and countenance. “You know I’m not going to do that, Nathaniel. I’m not leaving those children.”

Skinner scowled from behind his glasses. “Your compassion for them is…well, it’s admirable I suppose, but-”

“Look. Nathaniel. Let’s speak plainly, all right? I know there’s been talk about curses and taints and other such nonsense about those who’ve had any sort of dealings with youkai. I know people have started to call the kids, oh what was it, youkai-touched? And it isn’t exactly much of a secret that you’re at the center of it. Now, I have devoted my life to helping take care of those children in any way I can, and if you and Sonozika are bound and determined to keep them exiled out in the Wilds, then I’m staying there with them.”

Skinner sucked in air through his teeth. “That is…well, it’s a mite disappointing, I won’t lie.”

“If memory serves, Jesus was pretty specific about what He thought of those who would turn children away,” Joshua pointed out.

Then Skinner’s scowl darkened into outright hostility. “If memory serves, He was also pretty specific of the ultimate fate of heathens and heretics, children and adult alike! Were the children of Jericho spared? Or those of the Egyptians?”

“That’s enough, Skinner,” Joshua said flatly. He turned to walk away. “I’m not having this conversation anymore.”

“Close your ears and your eyes all you want!” Skinner shouted. “But you’re still-”

“So, hey,” Mokou said as she walked up to the two men. “What’s the big commotion over here?”

Joshua nearly stumbled. With her bright red suspenders and the charms tied into her hair, Mokou didn’t exactly blend in, but he hadn’t even heard her approach. How did she do that?

And yet here she was, hands in her pockets as she calmly surveyed the scene. Hanging back a ways behind her were five of the children, specifically Rumia Yagami, Kohta Momori, Keine Kamishirasawa, Kana Anaberal, and Melissa Garcia.

Skinner, it should be noted, nearly leapt right out of his coat when she appeared. “And who is this?” he demanded.

Joshua cleared his throat. “Um, this is Fujiwara no Mokou. Our cook.”

“Your…cook. Hmmm.” Skinner looked Mokou up and down. Mokou was tall for a Japanese woman, and over most crowds, but Skinner was a full head taller than even she. And yet, now that Joshua saw them standing next to one another, it didn’t seem that way. “Well, that’s appropriate I guess, but why is she wearing pants and a man’s shirt?”

Mokou quirked an eyebrow. “Tough talk from a guy dressed like a literal pile of crap. Josh, who’s this joker?

The rational part of Joshua told him to hustle Mokou away before the two came to blows, while the rest was curious to see how that would turn out. “Mokou, this is, uh, Nathaniel Skinner. He, uh, from the Human Village, and-”

“No. I am from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, of the United States of America!” Skinner snapped, though he kept his focus on Mokou. “But I don’t expect you to know any of that!”

Mokou shrugged. “Well, goody for you. I’m from the Fujiwara estate of the Kansai region, but I don’t expect you to know any of that. So now that we know each other’s names and agree that neither of us knows or cares where the other is actually from, why exactly are you bothering my friend for?”

Skinner turned to Joshua. “Is she…accustomed to intruding upon men’s conversations?”

“Hey.” Mokou snapped her fingers in Skinner’s ear. “Jackass. I’m right here. You can talk to me directly.”

Skinner shook his head. “Brother Joshua, I’m disappointed. You used to be a smart man, but now look at the kind of company you keep. I pray that God opens your eyes one of these days, before it’s too late.” Then, without another word, he turned and stormed.

Joshua and Mokou watched him storm off.

“Charming fellow,” Mokou wryly remarked. “Friend of yours?”

“Once,” Joshua admitted.

“Oh yeah? When was that?”

“Oh, about seventeen years ago, when we first came to Gensokyo.” Joshua shook his head. “I’m…sorry about that. He was always, ah, troubled, and relied on his faith for control.”

“Oh yeah? How’d that work out?”

Joshua thought for a moment, and then admitted, “With mixed results.”

“Sounds like the former’s informing the latter now.”

“I don’t disagree. He didn’t use to be this, ah, zealous, but ever since he came to Gensokyo, he’s…changed.”

“Well, if the stories I’ve heard are true, he’s also been busy changing everyone else,” Mokou said, folding her arms. “I guess he’s the one to blame for all the trouble we’ve been having with the Human Village?”

Joshua winced. “Yes, I think so.”

“Hmmm.” Mokou didn’t comment much past that, but the look she gave him spoke volumes. This conversation wasn’t over, that much was for certain.

Then, from where they were still standing, Rumia suddenly started jumping up and down and waving her hand. “Uh, Mr. Joshua? Miss Mokou? Hello!”

The urgency in her voice drew their attention immediately. The children were all focused on something happening in the market. Rumia was jumping up and down as she waved them over.

“Uh, some of the kids just got into a fight!” she said. “And it looks crazy!”

…

Well, this one was a bitch.

Until next time, everyone.

#touhou project #touhou #fanfic #rumia #fujiwara no mokou #imperfect metamorphosis

7 notes · View notes

comicteaparty · 5 years ago

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November 9th-November 15th, 2019 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from November 9th, 2019 to November 15th, 2019. The chat focused on the following question:

How do you deal with a lack of engagement from your audience, both emotionally and physically?

IzzyNinjaMaster

Oooo now that's a good question. If my online audience doesn't respond, I personally always show any new page updates to my family and friends and get feedback and comments from them. Really great for support. But sometimes their not available or I don't have anything new to show them. When this happens, I just look to myself for support. I know that doesn't really make sense or sounds kinda cheesy but it's what I do. I get myself pumped up and excited for what I can do next in the story and how awesome it will look all drawn out. And I go from there, I'll start drawing out ideas or writing out new chapters. So just be your own hype man, not just with your comics either but with everything. Great for self esteem.

Sorry went on kind of a rant right there

carcarchu

I prepare myself emotionally to not have any expectations. If you expect nothing and receive something you'll always be happy!

IzzyNinjaMaster

Lol true very true XD

Deo101

I'm not completely sure what this question means by physically, but I just kind of keep making art to move past it. Something that has helped me a TON is to make art that's just for me (like, that I don't post anywhere). I think that if everything is made to be shared, then we get a little too used to trying to find validation with engagement. With comics, specifically, I try to make none of my goals relate to engagement. I only have goals for myself and what i'm producing. If I'm hitting all of my goals, then I feel good about what I'm doing! No one engaging with it is just kind of like "okay!" Another smaller thing that helps me is getting my work done well before I upload it! for some reason just getting a bit of time distance between when something is done and when I post it I dont feel so bad if people don't engage.

Cronaj

I'm fairly lucky that I have a small following on one of the sites I post on, so while some weeks might be slow with feedback or engagement, I'm usually not completely devoid. I also have some very supportive family members who read my comic and often comment or text me after I update. As for what I do personally when I don't have a lot of engagement? I do a lot of self-reflecting, which is probably not the healthiest of practices. I question what I'm doing, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and how I could improve. I also try to understand other external factors at play, such as my readers' personal lives, jobs, school, holidays, that might have delayed them from engaging with my work. For example, I know that during November, as we get closer to Thanksgiving, there is going to be a huge drop in readership, because a lot of my younger readers will be preparing for school finals and visiting with family. By knowing this, it helps me cope a lot better. And if all else fails, I vent to my fiance or my little sister. It really does help to have someone to whine at for a bit

khkddn

If I were to get completely zero engagement on something I'd do what I'd always do, message people I know irl like "validate meeeeeeee"

In general I just take a step back from what I've posted and focus on something else. That way I remember webcomics isn't everything, and by the time I check up on things again there might be some sort of audience response.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I kept my work hidden for the first few years I was working on it (wanted to iron out any wrinkles before I was comfortable sharing) so in comparison, any engagement afterward - even a tiny amount - is pretty great! And even now, some updates get more traffic than others, for a lot of different reasons. Luck, timing, quality, etc. I always keep in mind that this project is - at its heart - for me and my own enjoyment/fulfillment. And if I’m pleased with where it’s going, that’s a win.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oof, that question really hit me where it hurts. Over the years I’ve lowered my expectations, because while I used to have an active audience in the ‘00s, I’ve rarely gotten any engagement on my comics in the ‘10s. It’s definitely made me feel depressed and like a ‘failure’ to put heart and soul into my comics and art and get 0 reaction online. I honestly don’t have any way I ‘deal’ with it. I make something, hoping to get some comments > I get no comments > I get depressed about it and feel like my work is garbage. Rinse and repeat several hundred times. I keep going because I just love to create, but it’s like an actor trying to put on a performance and no one shows up to the play. It has gotten better lately and I’ve started getting some engagement for the first time in many years, but I honestly don’t have a good answer for how I handle that emotional reaction to reader silence.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also good to keep in mind that lots of people may read without commenting, and still enjoy it! I did a poll wondering who would be interested in doing guest art, and way more people responded than I expected. It opened my eyes! Sometimes you just can’t tell until you outright ask for feedback

keii4ii

There's definitely a risk to that, though. You ask and still get nothing. Or worse, you ask and get negativity. Asking is a worthy gamble, but it takes courage! Sometimes when we don't have enough courage, we gotta find it elsewhere first, before we can try that gamble...

I lost that gamble one too many times and need more Courage Fund before I can try again, lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

True true! It was a gamble I had no real expectations/assumptions about, so I didn’t have much room for disappointment. Even getting one person who says “This is cool!” is enough to fuel me for days. But I know that’s not how it is for everyone. Once you’ve been disappointed once, it can take a while to get the urge to try again. I can’t imagine getting negativity, though... I think THAT would wreck me.

keii4ii

Sometimes I don't even ask and someone just randomly drops negativity off at my doorstep... I need to remember that I have also had wonderfully positive responses, that it wasn't all negative. But it can be hard to remember that on bad days.

Deo101

Yeah, negative comments always seem to be the loudest ones... They can drown out dozens of good ones if they hit you right.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I did develop a pretty thick skin for negativity in art school, which was really fortunate because my comics garnered a lot of negative attention at first. Though thinking back on it, I was making very androgynous and gender non-conforming characters (even though I never stated anywhere that they were queer) in a time when the public attitude towards such things was far less kind than it is today. At the time it was draining to get so many trolls, but unless I was already having emotional difficulties in other areas of my life, I was able to let it roll off.(edited)

keii4ii

The weirdest thing with my negativity is 99% of them come from actual readers who mean well. So I have a hard time dismissing them like 'oh they're just haters.' It's not necessarily harder than dealing with blatant trolls, but it is an entirely different beast.

Deo101

Sometimes I go and reread positive comments when I'm down about things

Yeah I'm not sure that I've had any trolls tbh... Its all readers saying what they think

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Avid readers who give backhanded compliments and ‘well-meaning’ but very subjective critique can definitely be detrimental.

keii4ii

In Korea, I dunno if they're still a thing, but 1-2 decades ago there was this type of theft called slash theft. It's a type of pickpocketing, done on the street while walking by. They bump into you, briefly and lightly, but you don't think much of it because Seoul is a crowded city and you brush against other people all the time. But during that brief bump, they manage to slash open your purse and take all the contents. It's an amazing ninja level skill for sure. I know people who had their stuff stolen that way. Back to the Courage Fund analogy, sometimes a negative comment isn't just a normal theft of your Fund. The comment slashes your purse open, and now your bag can't contain Fund even if you put more and more into it.

It can take a long time and lots of support to sew your purse back.

Deo101

Idk if other places to slash theft, im sure they do, but im pretty sure historically its been a big thing. The term "cutpurse" comes to mind

keii4ii

(:o I didn't know that was a term! The more you know)

Deo101

(some book i read (wasn't great but you know) used the term a lot and i was like "ok wtf is this")

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That’s a very good analogy for it, and I definitely understand what you mean. I had to take a three year hiatus from one of my comics once after a IRL ‘friend’ ripped the comic apart and called me a terrible writer in less-than-kind words. I had already been going through some very bad things with my health and family and it hurt me far more than it should. It took some encouragement from some very dedicated readers to convince me to pick up the comic again.

Deo101

(so i associate it with pirates now)

That's really terrible lee... Om glad you picked it back uo though!!!

keii4ii

I can super relate to harsh comments hurting way more than they should, when you're already in a bad state. >_<

Deo101

And also it is a really good analogy keiiii

Yeah things just kinda get harder to deal with in general when you're more tired/upset in other areas

keii4ii

The most devastating feedback I've got would have done far less damage if I weren't in a fragile state at the time.

Deo101

Like you can't go be safe elsewhere if everything is a source of stress...

keii4ii

(For all we know those slashers in Korea could be pirates )

Deo101

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Does Korea have pirates? If so, I’m moving to Korea.

(Sorry, we’ve probably gone way off topic for the discussion)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got antsy when someone made a small critique of my lettering (rightfully so, though - lettering is hard and I’m still learning) so a proper heart-stabbing, bad-faith critique might sideline me for a while. Gotta be prepared for that someday

Deo101

Its weird, it really seems to be mostly about how I'm doing elsewhere in life now that im thinking about it. Also being further along in the comic helps cause I've got years of support and "just keep chuggin" under my belt

Like the other day someone critiqued me randomly and called my characters stupid and i was like "dam ok, your comment getting deleted then" but a year or so ago a comment like "I'm sorry im a little confused..." Made me second guess everything for weeks

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Ohhh Maybe the obviously mean/troll comments are easier to deal with, than feeling you let down a reader who was genuinely trying to understand the story. I would definitely react similarly.

Deo101

Iunno, the big old critique was a normal reader who has left other comments he jusy kinda randomly did it. But yeah I think it can be easier to shrug off things that are CLEARLY antagonistic versus someone being harmlessly confused

Because confusion can mean I'm not being clear enough and need to change things and whatever. Its vague in a way that hits your anxiety

keii4ii

Yeah, when someone is obviously being a jerk, you know it's on them

omg... reader confusion has been the bane of my existence

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I dunno, man, art school just toughened me up to most negative comments. If one person out of five is confused, I don’t take it personally and just explain it to them to clear up confusion. If everyone’s confused I think ‘Hmm, maybe I should retcon in some dialogue to make it more clear’. I guess art school really teaches you to distance yourself from your work and be very objective about it. BUT as I said, I’m not immune when other bad things are going on and it becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Deo101

Though THEN you kinda get like "why am I being a target???" And its very frustrating, at the very least, and it does definitely still hurt... (Wrt trolls)

keii4ii

It's hard to tell who's confused and who isn't sometimes

Deo101

Yeah Lee im in art school right now, but for me its different when I make something to be critiqued versus a passion long term project

If I am asking for critique too, im braced for it in a way I'm mentally prepared for. Im not always braced to have someone be like "its pretty good buuut..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahh, I can understand that. I guess I’m able to view my passion projects the same way I did my school projects. It took time, that’s for sure. It’s a process of desensitisation, and was something I had to build up over years.

keii4ii

I'm disproportionately sensitive about reader misinterpretations/confusion. I'm 95% sure it's because one bad experience. Someone thought my main story was garbage, but they liked parts of it, so they told me to basically make a different story using those parts. After that, every time a reader didn't recognize the main story (I got a very prominent B plot, so it's kinda understandable that some people mistake it as the A), I got vivid flashbacks of that one bad experience. Every time someone said they liked [this character that The Other Person liked], I got flashbacks. Took me good 2-3 years to get over it.

Deo101

Its also a lil different when it's like.. i wont be changing these pages so unless it's a critique for moving forward its kinda pointless and i cant really apply it

Damn keiiii that's really rough

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, that sucks.

keii4ii

Yeah, it's hard to be motivated when the underlying message is "your first 100 pages are hot garbage, but you can still improve........ even if readers will give up long before they get to the decent 101st page!"

Deo101

RIGHT...

I don't want to have to preface "check out my comic!" Wirh "i promise it gets better..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

COUGH That’s exactly why I’m reduxing Eryl’s hot garbage beginning right now COUGH

Also because I’m a masochist and perfectionist.....

keii4ii

I think "it gets better" is fine when it's a reader reccing it. (I remember some of my friends reccing multi-season anime series to each other, going, "it gets better after season 1") But yeah, as the author we can't be the ones saying it.

Deo101

Mhm.

And I'm still hapoy with my old pages. I know I could do them better now but they're perfectly fine and they get the job done so... Idk its just hard when someone is like "wow two years ago you made a mistake, :/"

Like. Yeah, duh... I've spent like a thousand hours on pages theres gonna be some mistakes

keii4ii

It took me a long time to realize that Flaws =/= Problems

Deo101

I'm learning and getting better youre gonna have to bare with me here

Nutty (Court of Roses)

are you kidding i still get crit on stuff i made TEN years ago

Deo101

Mhm

keii4ii

omg

Deo101

Well its not a competition

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Same, Nutty

Nutty (Court of Roses)

True sorry ;;

Deo101

Ur name just changed colors keiiii

You: flaws =/= problems Your name: im ascending

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think...learning how to like not be bothered by negativity that much is a skill. Super freaked out one time when someone said they didn't know what's going on when reading HotV whoops

(turned out they just had to re-read a bit and it was just webcomics being webcomics)

Deo101

I had a group of readers say they were co fused and one person asked me to explain the last 2 chapters and i was like "holy shit am i being this unclear????"

Its stressful for sure

Nothjng wrong with being concerned with ut

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Keiiii has reached a new plane of existence. The blue is unrefutable proof

Deo101

Its something you're passionate about and you want to be as good as it can be

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah...

Deo101

So any critique, regardless of validity will be something you WANT to consider

Which is fine and theres nothing wronf with taking things to heart like that

But also if youre Happy with it that's all that matters

You gotta be your #1 fan kinda thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally super uh...yeah I am having a hard time dismissing criticism

even if it's in bad faith, haha.

keii4ii

The #1 fan thing sometimes reminds me of that scene from Lilo & Stitch

The scene of Lilo's rag doll. It's been years since I watched it, so memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think all the kids were showing off their dolls, and Lilo wanted to show off hers too

but the other kids didn't like her homemade-looking doll, and it made her sad, almost not like her doll for a moment

but she picks up the doll again afterward

There are days where I relate to that. I never not-love my story and my characters, but sometimes I feel like everyone else has a low opinion of it, you know?

and I'm like lonely Lilo hugging her rag doll in the sad corner

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I totally get that and...loving what you do first and foremost is really important. I don't think in a medium like webcomics you would be able to keep going

keii4ii

I'll always love my Doll but I do wish this little corner weren't so lonely, kinda thing

Deo101

I feel that keiiii

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

When the ‘critique’ is detrimental it does become a problem. Like that ‘friend’ I was talking about earlier who bashed Eryl to bits. He told me to ‘read some Stephen King’ to learn how to write. I was making a high fantasy story, not a horror story. The writing of a horror author is simply not applicable to building a good fantasy adventure story. That’s when I knew he was full of shit. But the damage had been done, and I lost all motivation for the project for years.

keii4ii

uuugh, I'm so sorry that it happened to you D:

Deo101

Also this story is one that i have dropped and picked up SO many times, and its wildly changed over and over, and so i worry a lot im not making it in its final form, i suppose. I worry i started it too young, and so critique of the older parts hits that anxiety

Wow lee that's terrible...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Gosh...

Deo101

Also you can't really compare Novel writing to comics imo. The structure can be compared but...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think HotV is like a project I've worked on since...2008? And it changed with me and I feel pretty confident that it's in its final stage.

keii4ii

and not every story needs to be a Stephen King story

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But yeah, you can really not compare writing for novels to writing for comics wth

nah

tbh it's weird (I like King personally) but his stories and also his writing do have flaws too so

what

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually do use novels as a source to study how to construct my comics. But! Studying the right genre is important. I’ve the feeling the only books that guy read were Stephen King, so that’s the only kind of story he was familiar with.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

God when I was still developing a picture I did got featured somewhere and someone criticised the way I did knees and linked to the picture of another artist going: Hey draw knees like that

Deo101

Every story will have flaws, its impossible to make one that is perfect. Well. Its impossible to make a story thats perfect for everyone. So alk you can do is try to make a story thats perfect for you!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Deo

keii4ii

^ THAT REMINDS ME

Deo101

Omg

keii4ii

(going back to the original question) With no response, or negative response, one thing that helps me is hearing other people gush about their beloved unpopular stories!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmmm

Deo101

!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I am having this problem and went to ask on twitter what ppl loved about their projects

and that's really uplifting somehow

Deo101

I LOVE reading other comics and just seeing how much passion is in them its like a light

keii4ii

I need to remember that just because someone, or even a lot of someones, thinks a story is trash, doesn't make it the universal truth

Deo101

^^^

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I WILL GUSH ALL DAY BOUT MY BELOVED UNPOPULAR STORIES and once you open that damn I am unstoppable. You will regret it, trust me.

keii4ii

And people gushing about their unpopular favorites is an excellent way of reminding myself

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe

Deo101

I have been very lucky and have had a few incredibly kind people who i can remember fondly when i worry my story isnt reaching people. I Know it has touched a few lives, and if it makes even ONE person happier (even if thay person is me) then im doing my job and its worth all the time and effort.

That was kind of off topic i swear it connected in mt mind

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Absolutely

I feel it's connected

Deo101

Phew

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

bc hmm it's a way to deal with times when there is not much engagement?

Deo101

Aha! There we go yes :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do generally write very off-beat, unpredictable stories because I like reading / watching those kinds of things. A lot of my favourite movies bombed at the box office because they weren’t formulaic, which was what I loved about them.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Remind yourself that there is people who enjoy what you do and who are happier bc of it C:

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Also i have my characters on a shirt so i can just wear that and be like "fuck yeah. I have a shirt. It cant be a bad comic if I've got merch babeyyyy"

Which admittedly is a very odd way of dealing with anxiety

But like.... You should get your Characters on a shirt.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

dfhwioufheuf Deo that's cool tho

I made so many like...background designs and posters for HotV and some of those I WANT ON A SHIRT

Oh I think what also helps me is to find a friend and just talk about the comic?

Deo101

The place i use lets you get up to 6 items a month as a sample order and it's severely discounted my shirt was like $15

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should do that. I have designed some T-shirts but that wasn’t for personal stuff.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

omg

keii4ii

I'm actually in the (long) process of re-learning how to talk about my comic

Deo101

And yeah for sure having people i csn talk with/joke with about my comic helps soooo much

Like the fact that i know these 5 people will get my jokes like this

THAT helps a TON

These people actually are the reason I was confident enough to be able to start after having a bad friend drive me to almost drop the story for good

So having their support is probably one of the biggest things thst helps if no one else engages.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Okay, so on the original subject of ‘How to deal with no feedback’ I do talk about my stories a lot with my two best friends. They are my biggest fans and my sounding boards. They let me go on and on about plot threads in my comics and it’s one of the main reasons I keep going. Even when I get 0 reaction online, I still have two people who I know are reading the comic and think I should keep going.

Deo101

Or like, when my family is being homophobic about my work kinda thing. Friends are good for that...

Yessss lee having people you can talk with about it is SO good

keii4ii

ngl, I'm jelly of those of you who have go-to support friends who are genuinely into your story! That's something I hope to have some day, myself

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know whether to give a sad react for homophobic family or a happy react for supportive friends

Deo101

Happy react ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Still sorry about your homophobic family tho, but your friends sound awesome

Deo101

Yeah but :> I know I'm doing good work. Again those few people who i know my story has touched.. i know I'm doin good work.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii4ii Just know I’ve been an acid fan of your comics for over 10 years and honestly think they’re some of the best comics I’ve ever read

AVID

NOT ACID(edited)

keii4ii

Hey acid is important too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOD MY PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hiodcnioefwe acid

love this

I have one friend who has supported me since 2007 and I can always count on her freaking out about my comics Y_Y

so when I feel especially bad I turn to her

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My phone is old and the keyboard lags and autocorrects like AAAAARGH(edited)

Deo101

Its okay same here lee

Typo club babeyyyy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have to edit almost every comment I make THANKS A LOT PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

shakes fist at ur phone to be more kind

I can't type on phone at all so...

keii4ii

Yeah, swipe-typing is high level sorcery to me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As someone who’s normally a grammar freak it causes me great pain that my texting is a syntactical disaster.

Deo101

I've been doing swipe a bit lately so it doesn't hurt my hands to text (I Tex too much)

keii4ii

This actually makes me wonder

What are some good, safe(ish) ways to reach out to people who may be 1000% willing to become that Support Pillar for your comic?

Deo101

I just straight up start doing it

keii4ii

For all I know they exist. But.. Schrödinger's pillar

Deo101

And gague the reaction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As an antisocial gremlin who hides under a rock, I have no idea.

Pakky

never hurts to ask

keii4ii

@Pakky You would be surprised

Deo101

Start sharing art, see if theyre curious, get deeper if they're good with it, kinda thinf

I've got friends who like to see my art but don't really care about my comic, and you kinda just gotta take it case by case

Pakky

mm fair enough, i always try to be supportive of content creators mostly because i would hope for the same in return. theres a lot of bluntness in my industry so if you do well you get praise but if you do poorly, you very well know it :/

keii4ii

Me: "Thank you for supporting my humble comic!" (this wasn't even asking, just thanking) Reader: "Well, your comic isn't that good." Me: "?????????"

Deo101

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’ll be honest, on the rare occasion a reader starts trying to get really close to me, my dumb brain freaks out and I put some distance in because I have Issues for days.

Pakky

thats just rude on their part

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

what

holy fuck

keii4ii

I've Been Burned

omg, that question mark react is so appropriate

Deo101

I've chatted with some readers here or there but I don't know if id wanna use them as a support pillar

I kind of have trained myself to think readers as fickle.

If they get sick of my story, theyre allowed to leave

They dont owe me their time or energy and them being here is a gift

So I'll chat and stuff and answer questions but unless someone is my friend i will not lean on them for support.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly it’s happened that I’ve gad readers try to get really close or be my sounding board, and I think they were just trying to be enthusiastic and supportive but my stupid broken brain always panics and goes WARNING STALKER ALERT WARNING ABORT ABORT.

Deo101

Hey better safe than sorry

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp

Deo101

I'll chat but i wont give personal information and im not gonna like, get all into spoiling everything im planning lmao.

If someone asks me a question thats a spoiler ill answer it in private

But bringing raw ideas up for help... I need very specific people for thst.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The thing is they weren’t even being creepy or trying to get really personal. They were just very friendly and I apparently can’t handle that. ><

Deo101

The friend group i get writing helo on are all writers, and they all understand my vision. They don't write stories like mine, i dont write stories like theirs, and we all fully understand our suggestions may go unfollowed.(edited)

Also whoever put the eye emoji yeah if u have a question straight up dm me and I'll answer.

keii4ii

It's okay, your comfort is important. If you want to be more open, you can work on that. But not everyone has the same comfort level and that's okay too

Deo101

Yes! Its all about what you're comfortable with

But I've personally got a small curated group of writers/artists who all circulate our work between eachother

Which i know is very rare.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same, Deo...helped me a lot and I also know who to turn to when I'm down about engagement

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(also they are all perceived better than me so I believe them if they say sth nice)

Deo101

Omg

That group of people have done SO much for me honestly. Im thinking about them. I love my friends.

Also dont worry its nit all about me they also talk about and we help their work too i wanna be sure thats clesr

keii4ii

I figured it was all mutual! but now that you've said it's not all about you I'm suddenly imagining The Cult of Deo

That is 10000000% wonderful though

Deo101

I walk in and I'm like "y'all check out this new millennium lore" and they all take their hoods off and start scouring it for plotholes

keii4ii

Whilst sitting in a circle (a magic circle to be exact)

Deo101

Of course of course

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Damn, that’s awesome! I only see my friends every few months so I dump a lot of plot on them all at once, and it’s harder for them to give really detailed critique. XD

Deo101

Oh, I do this all online

Irl I sit down with my sister and we talk for 4 hours and Lose our voices LMAO

Cronaj

Good convos literally ALWAYS happen while I'm at work

keii4ii

I'm still here

Cronaj

Good, because it made me sad when you said you didn't have a support pillar

And that readers are fickle (which can be true)

But I don't think you know how much I love your comic

keii4ii

I'm seriously honored! I still fear that maybe people are not seeing the story I'm trying to tell, and are following the comic for some other reasons (which is valid, just not what I'm trying to achieve). But hey, I'll never find out if I don't keep going, right?

kayotics

keiiii, i love your comic and i think it's beautiful in many ways, not just the art

but also, on the topic of lack of engagement... I'm pretty fortunate in that my spouse is always really supportive of my comic, so when I need a little pep talk I can always ask them

sssfrs

I’m trying to collect as much negative feedback as I can so that I’ll know my comics strengths and weaknesses and I’ll be prepared to take criticism as it comes in the future. It is pretty frustrating having no response or fanbase right now but I started my comic pretty recently and theres still time for growth

Glowbat (Aloe)

when you're collecting feedback be mindful that there's a difference between constructive criticism and people being unhelpful and simply telling you they don't like your work

the latter wont do anything but bruise your self confidence(edited)

keii4ii

Yeah, and sometimes even well-meaning critiques can miss the point too, like if it comes from someone who thinks your work should be X, when it is intended to be Y. Easy example: My previous comic was a depressing drama centering around a terminally ill young woman and her doctor, and once someone told me I "needed more fight scenes." It wasn't even an action comic! In that case, the lack of fight scenes was not a weakness. It simply meant the comic wasn't for that person.

DanitheCarutor

On the topic of lack of engagement. My answer is really boring, but I just keep working on my comic regardless of how much/little engagement it gets. I never intended or expected to have an audience to begin with since my comic has sooo many problematic elements in it, whenever I get feedback it's super nice! Always a surprise, like seeing the machine light up when winning $500 on the penny slots! (In a way, getting engagement is kinda like gambling. You post a page and you may or may not win some comments in return... Not equating real people to items to win, of course!) Admittedly, if there is a page I feel would cause reaction but I get nothing, it is a little sad. It's not the end of the world, though! I got a story to tell, and as long as I can still draw I'm content.

kayotics

i relate to that a lot, Dani. I also never intended to make the comic for anyone but me, so the fact that anyone reads it is really exciting to me.

Cronaj

@keii4ii (Potentially off-topic, but is there somewhere to read your other comic(s)? Or are they all in Korean?)

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics Every so often I look at my reader base and think "Man, there are people into this kind of stuff??" It's an almost surreal feeling.

kayotics

Yeah I get it! I wouldn’t say mines too out there but there’s so many other fantasy dnd inspired comics out there that they could read that I’m surprised they even glance at mine.

AntiBunny

How do I deal with it? Usually experience a series of emotions such as "how hard is it to leave one little comment you losers?" Then "Who am I kidding, no one is reading this, I'm creating into a void," and finally pry a few comments from people who know me personally, reassure myself that I create out of a compulsion to tell my stories even if no one's reading, and start the process all over for next week. Not exactly a healthy method I admit.

keii4ii

@kayotics There is only one Toivo out there

@Cronaj aaaa the previous one was in English. But I would not recommend it It's unfinished (though it does have more than 600 pages IIRC) and honestly really rough.

kayotics

@keii4ii true....... one weird wizard boy

Cronaj

Dang... I LOVE medical stories. I'm seriously addicted to them. @keii4ii

keii4ii

I enjoy them too and I appreciate your interest!

Cronaj

scours the internet for the lost records

keii4ii

The site layout is also broken so yeah...

I guess another thing I do is try to comment more on other people's comics, to rec them publicly, etc. Being the change I want. I don't do this as often as I want, but I think/hope even the little bit I do counts.

mathtans

Heh, I'm basically with Cap'n Lee in terms of a cycle. I think part of my issue is I won a fanfic competition in 2004, and it's kind of been downhill since. I've posted regularly to a serial site for over 4 years, accumulating 300 posts, and last month it had 100 total views... there's been 2 comments since March.

On the actual comic side though (not serial) I've relaunched it more than once, and tried to flag the more recent index as a starting point. And yeah, just hold on to the few good comments, like the guy who applauds me for continuing to post even though I only have 10 people following on Tapas.

These days, of course, I'm too darn BUSY to really think much about the lack of engagement. So one solution might be to get married and have a kid. Then you're just happy when you manage to get content out, never mind if anyone remarks on it.(edited)

Mharz

Popping here just to answer the question becos it's interesting. The lack of engagement was a bane in my existence and honestly one of the factors why I had to see a psychiatrist. My doctor told me I have self-esteem issues which leads me to seek validation from strangers. This is the first thing I work on. I have to be confident enough to not break even if nobody likes my stuffs. Which means I have to love myself first. (People prolly see me as vain at this point) Second thing I do is keep a mentality of "nobody has to care. They have things going on as well" which helps me appreciate the small percentage of people who actually took the time to engage, talk, and be friends with me. I also try to put a positive spin on it. "Nobody cares therefore I can make as much noise on my social media as I want and no one will bother criticizing becos nobody cares." If people unfollow, it's on them. It just means they're not really a fan of my work and I shouldn't waste my time. And if my mental illness is too much, then I will disconnect from the online world a bit. Treat myself. Do something fun like gaming and baking and hang out with friends IRL if possible.

Mharz

I sometimes think it's karma on my end becos I'm so vain, I rarely get interested in anything so I'm not really a fan of many stuffs so that is something I accepted as well.

AntiBunny

Perhaps being a webcomic author sort of goes hand in hand with needing validation.

MJ Massey

OH BOY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A LACK OF ENGAGEMENT?!

over the past week, I got 24 users. Granted, I didn't update, so that's probably why

So this is a four month overview of my website traffic. I hit a high of 184 unique users in August, and after that it plummeted to just barely over 100. And I hadn't really done anything different

I have never really gained a lot of traction with my comics. I'll admit that Black Ball definitely has more appeal than my last comic, so I have slowly been building an audience with it, but it's still been very slow. Sometimes it feels like I have to adhere to some extra set of rules while others can just throw up their comic on Tapas and have instant success. Of course, that's not the case at all

the key is to remember "why am I doing this? isn't it because I love making comics?!"

and to keep on pushing, keep up that hustle, and enjoy the ride. Make great content and it will be rewarding in and of itself

carcarchu

I'm not really sure it's as simple as simply throwing something up on tapas and getting instant success. there's a lot of work that goes behind every comic even if you don't perceive it

MJ Massey

well yes of course, I'm just saying sometimes it SEEMS like that

I'm a marketing professional, so I know there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres, i think, a lot of factors in certain comics gaining traction faster than others that are mostly out of a creator's control. on mirror sites like webtoons or tapas you have to factor that more attention is given to certain genres and art styles over other because of what that crowd likes. if they're into slice of life romances in anime-esque styles then someone who writes fantasy mysteries in a more western influenced style may not get as much love as they deserve

its tough out there

ive been fairly fortunate to gain a steady bit of followers on tapas but on webtoons my reader engagement and subs are significantly lower

Glowbat (Aloe)

i chalk it up to the type of crowd

MJ Massey

I've been analyzing my audience and my work and have a hypothesis that my work just works better in bulk format. I think 2020 will be a year of transitioning into bulk distro instead of the page at a time format

and see if that helps. As well as some new marketing techniques and getting back into the con circuit

Kabocha

A lack of engagement... This is definitely... a topic. I feel like, sure, one's general marketability in any given platform will definitely make it easier or harder to attract an audience, but on the other hand? It's also worth making sure you kinda figure out what you want out of webcomics. Some people have been working on their projects (or existing within a fandom) for years - decades, even at this point, which can be a big boost to initial readership on a new project! Other people just have the advantage of being able to sit down and advertise, or having someone do that for them. Personally, though. I went in not expecting to get an audience, and for a long time, actively avoided even having a comment section on my site. I just enjoy making comics and creating things - and if it happens to make someone happy, that's awesome. But comics and art aren't the only thing I do in my life that make me happy, and I've found engaging other people directly about things like comic craft and resources to be about 100x more fulfilling than posting comics themselves. (And it is fun, sometimes, to gush about my OCs and how dumb they can be.) But how do I cope with it? Eh, it's honestly not a big deal to me. It feels less stressful in some regards, because the dayjob can get hella hectic, and trying to balance "OH GOD COMICS" with "OH GOD THE SERVERS NEED PATCHED ALL NIGHT TONIGHT" can be.... interesting.

(But oh god, I will admit, having someone come up to me and say, "I read your thing or used your photoshop/csp brushes" can be incredibly motivating. But other days, I have to be my own motivation, so...)

kayotics

Sometimes it’s helpful to keep a list of really nice comments or to write down memories of when someone told you they like your work. This can take a while to gather but if someone says something nice about your work, keeping it somewhere safe for a day you’re feeling bad can help boost that morale

It also helps me sometimes to think about how there’s a TON of people who never comment on things, but they’re probably regularly reading.

MJ Massey

Totally! I was building a landing page for my email subscription, and I was able to go back and find old reviews from my last comic, and it really got me pumped

Kabocha

Yeah! When I worked in a call center, the metrics on calls in -> surveys was something like... At best, you get 10% of your callers leaving surveys. And it's usually because you left an impression (good or bad). Usually the reality was at best, you'd hear back from about 2% of your userbase unless you gave them an incentive them to say something.

Mharz

re tapas and other platforms: I have to agree that certain genres really are more appealing there. I have two comics with different genres that I regularly update and the numbers are literally like night and day. It's a sad truth.

Mharz

I also love getting notifs on tapas when a person is binging my comics and liking every update. It means I got them hooked. :'3(edited)

nice reminder that there ARE people who like my comics.

Kabocha

Well yeah - even in traditional publishing, some genres generally get larger readerships than others (and higher advances) because they're more easily marketed. There's a reason why some publishers will categorize what's basically a fantasy story with romance subplots as a "romance" overall for a relatively unknown author (it's because they're more likely to attract more readers because romance is HUGE)

MJ Massey

true that

and you have to find where you audience lives as well

Kabocha

Yeah... I have some readers who only engage when they come back to catch up, which can be every 6weeks or more. Some only read when a chapter is done being posted, which is about every six months.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Re: Tapas. Yeah, Tapas especially has very particular styles and genres it likes (anime style + romance, especially BL). I posted Children of Shadow there for six months and had 20 total subs before taking it down. A while later I tried posting it on Webtoons and got 60 subs in one week. That level of engagement slowed down considerably almost immediately though, because the prologue episode is in colour and the main series is greyscale - and I discovered the hard way that the majority of Webtoons’ users do not like greyscale (I even got rating-bombed over it). My second comic is doing much better on Webtoons since it’s in digital colour rather than pencil like Children of Shadow. Each platform has its specific interests and it can be a struggle to get noticed if you’re not making something that falls into its normal styles and genres.

Glowbat (Aloe)

both tapas and webtoons really dont push their scifi comics hardly at all. Tapas' top scifi section is littered with discontinued stories (at least theyve abandoned tapas at any rate idk if theyre for sure no longer continued) which means that because i update weekly and sorta fall into a semi-anime inspired style i get some decent traffic from the small demographic who go hunting for a scifi comic

RebelVampire

That's not that surprising, tbh. Even in the realm of novels sci-fi is more of a hunt for where the audience is sometimes.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Scifi is an under-appreciated genre, imo. Unless you’re Star Wars, Star Trek or a Marvel comic, it seems like people don’t talk much about scifi.

It might help boost views if you rework your genre labels on places like Webtoons. Like, have Adventure or Drama as your main genre tag and Scifi as your secondary genre.

Glowbat (Aloe)

actually ever since avas demon went on webtoons ive been getting about 10-15 subs a week there

for a while i had listed aloe as drama first but the results werent fantastic as i think that genre has been flooded over there

keii4ii

I think sci-fi has some very prominent associations with the genre that don't apply to every sci-fi story -- e.g. the first thing a lot of people immediately think of is spaceship explody battles. So if someone sees sci-fi and they're not into spaceship explody battles, they won't read.

Glowbat (Aloe)

i may try adventure though if scifi doesnt pan out

keii4ii

Alternatively, if someone sees sci-fi and they ARE into that... and only that... they will leave once they find out the comic is not about that

Glowbat (Aloe)

thats also a good point

keii4ii

I've had similar difficulties even though fantasy is more widely accepted these days as a more varied mega-genre

People expect X, comic contains only a sprinkling of X and is about Y instead.

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my personal case, i've alienated potential readers i feel sometimes simply by having the cast be primarily lgtbq with an agender lead. but i dont regret that and im happy to have it deter people who arent down for that

RebelVampire

That is definitely true about sci-fi. Film has really biased people as to what fits sci-fi, where in reality sci-fi is a really wide genre. So a lot of stuff never gets a chance cause it confuses people.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Yooooo i feel that, glowbat. On one hand, I want ppl to know that my comic is a safe read for LGBT, but at the same time I know that announcing it as such will deter others on principle.

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

I feel the same way. The whole cast of Wayfinders is some form of lgbt+, but we don't actually adress it much, because it's an adventure story moreso than a romance. So it's like.... how do we tell the readers it ain't straight

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Fantasy does seem to get drowned by numbers. Eryl gets about 5 new subs per update and Children of Shadow only gets 1-2, and I think they’re just getting lost in the crowd.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Two of my characters jokingly told each other their identity through bard puns, plus I keep pushing for gay ships within the story, so I'm pretty overt with my readers about it ahaha.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@The Q - working on WAYFINDERS I’m having some difficulty with that dilemma, too. Both my comics feature large LGBTQ+ casts but romance isn’t the focus of either. It often feels like there’s no good way to bring it up naturally until the romance threads surface very far into the story, and I’m always worried about homophobes lashing out when they eventually discover the comic is G A Y

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my descriptions i describe the comic as a lgbtq+ themed scifi flat out

keii4ii

Early in HoK, one character embarks on a journey for a personal reason, and the MC tags along. I've semi-recently heard from an American friend that she didn't really get the character's reason. He wanted to take a younger family member away from a bad living situation, but to the friend, the situation didn't seem so bad. After some talking, we realized it was a cultural thing. The situation was very obviously bad to Koreans, but it didn't/doesn't seem like a far departure from the range of normal life in the US, for cultural/societal reasons. I suspect that was a big part of the reason why people kept pegging my comic as a "fun adventure romp" despite the lack of fun adventures (it has elements of adventure, but is not that as a whole). The reason for the journey seemed superficial, like the author (me) just needed an excuse to start the Fun Adventure-Filled Journey. Whereas Korean readers, back when I was publishing it in Korean, immediately understood it was an intensely personal, difficult task that the shy boy decided to accept for the sake of love.

And yeah, LGBTQ+ as a tag/ part of the description seems like a good option to me too!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But then I’m also anxious that LGBT folks will think that’s false advertising because the characters’ labels aren’t mentioned until really far into the story (and it’s no where near that point yet). Aaaagh maybe I just overthink everything.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its really interesting to hear the difference in reception HoK gets

keii4ii

Yeah and the setting itself apparently feels different, too! To Koreans, it evokes secondhand nostalgia. But some non-Koreans have told me it feels fantastical and Ripe For Adventures

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel you Lee- almost none of my chars have mentioned or done anything to illustrate their identities yet

keii4ii

(I also feel the need to mention, there have been non-Korean readers who got what HoK was about. Those readers mean so much to me! But I don't know if they understood that particular detail about Danbi's motivation for the journey early on.)

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

(I'm gonna put so much lbgt+ love in the background of the story everytime they get to a new city ahahahaha >:) )

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To me, @keii4ii HoK is very reminiscent of Studio Ghibli films because I get similar whimsical vibes. But Studio Ghibli has always been more about emotional journeys so after a couple chapters I was like ‘Ah, yes, I think this comic is about the characters’ emotional growth’(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

(muhahhaa, also just let Sallly flirt with all the ladies in the BG)

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss flirt with ladies

MJ Massey

I'm worried that my comic is not "gay enough" to warrant the LGBT+ label. The character's sexualities have very little to do with the actual story, and one character is actively hiding their identity

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

SAME

keii4ii

I'm aro/ace/agender and I don't really feel "LGBTQ+ enough" so I can't really use the LGBTQ+ label for my own comic, even though I know the label isn't exclusively for ownvoices stories.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I admit I’m not sure I ‘got’ Danbi’s motivations on a cultural level, but I felt like the tone being presented in that scene made it pretty clear she was in a bad situation?(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

but... we have calculated a total of 1 straight character in our whole comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

‘She’ as in the niece, not Danbi. XD(edited)

MJ Massey

that's what it seemed like to me too, or at least that by leaving their village they were going to a better situation

Glowbat (Aloe)

first of all- high fives keii because agender solidarity and second of all if you have chars who identify as either not straight or not cis or both rolled into one then its gay enough to have the lgbtq label

to heck with gate keepers

there are plenty of queer peeps who just want to read stories that casually include people like themselves

but if you dont feel its needed you dont have to either

MJ Massey

I guess there is a certain expectation when you say "I make an LGBTQ+ comic" of how that comic will be, and I don't want to disappoint people or set them up to expect something different

I just figure that all kinds of people exist in the world, so I should include as many different kinds of people as I can in my work

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probs should just put LGBTQ+ labels in the descriptions and be like ‘this is genre fiction but almost everyone’s queer even though you can’t tell yet’. XD

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I use the term "LGBT-friendly" to indicate that they're present, but might not be the full focus

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I write genre stories because I’m not that into romance-centric stories myself. I want queer heroes in the kinds of stories I like to read without the entire focus being on their sordid love-lives. I just want to read about the hero who slayed a dragon to rescue his prince instead of his princess, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

lol im in a similar position where i'd rather see the hero befriend the dragon

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have plenty of that in my comics, too!

There’s some nice dragons and some very-not-nice ones. XD

Glowbat (Aloe)

(im insufferable in d&d i was a bard who tried to be friends with everything)

eryl is on my lisssst <3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

This is why I love bards

Glowbat (Aloe)

hehe

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm always happy when people mark their stuff as LGBTQ+ if characters are present tbh Y_Y

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Also agreed with everything said above

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, now Imma definitely have to add the LGBTQ+ labels to my comics next time I do website maintenance.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yay!

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Aw ye aw ye

Join the brigade

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yiss

I feel a bit bad bc I rarely read sth that's not clearly marked as LGBTQ+ or where I know the authors are part of the community whoops

But it's mostly the fact that I consumed hetero-focused media my whole life and now I can...choose.....

the dream

Glowbat (Aloe)

heck yes

im way more drawn to stories that are marked lgbtq+

keii4ii

Don't feel bad, because seriously, even if you exclusively read LGBTQ+ marked stories? There ain't enough time in this life to read every good story that fits that bill.

There are too many good stories out there and we do need to choose.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its just nicer because then i can enjoy the story without having to worry that in the middle of it im going to get a rude wake up call from an off colour joke or somethin at my expense

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true

keii4ii

Sometimes we miss out on stuff that we may have fallen in love with, but that's the name of the game, the game of not having enough time

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Webcomics feel a lot safer than other media in that regard atm

Jupp especially if you're also working on your own stories

Glowbat (Aloe)

it sucks thinking theres a bunch of stories out there that im sure id love if only i had the time or mental fortitude to sift through a bunch of others.

keii4ii

(OTL that reminds me... there is one instance of trope use in an early chapter of HoK that falls into that 'off color joke' category. I don't have any excuses for it, just 'I just thoughtlessly parroted a trope that I saw elsewhere.' I regret it and hope to figure out an elegant way to rewrite that one scene.)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i dont have the energy to be burned so often by stories that seem good and then hit me with random transphobic bs or using slurs as jokes

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, as someone who grew up in a time when no one positively portrayed queer folks in mainstream stories (and there was no internet and living out in the boonies made it impossible to discover underground cultures) I love that now I can seek out tonnes of LGBTQ stories and drown myself in the gay every day.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp ;;

Glowbat (Aloe)

man if i could give ten year old me printed copy of paranatural and turn to the pages with rj's identity being explained? that kid would have grown up way happier

living in small towns aint great for queer peeps

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Nope it’s not. I was badly repressed until honestly only 3 years ago when I suddenly asked myself why I loved reading about and writing so many gay characters. And then suddenly my whole life made sense.

Glowbat (Aloe)

im so happy for you<3

Glowbat (Aloe)

its a heck of a thing thinking back on things and realizing why you do certain things

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly there were giant clues from when I was still a little kid and I can’t believe it took me so long. XD But I’m digressing from the comic talk, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

haha i understand what you mean

i think its why its so important for comics to be inclusive

spare some poor kids the heart ache and confusion

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes! The internet has created such a boom for indie comics and that huge variety of voices has been so so important.

Glowbat (Aloe)

as much as comics are an art, they're extremely powerful as a vehicle for teaching and generally conveying ideas

FeatherNotes

Can i just say how happy i am that y'all are making LGBTQ+ comics that aren't just romance tho? I'm pretty indifferent and on the ace spectrum for sure, so its so refreshing that we can have a queer cast just being cool and not hurt by identities. I wish i had that as a kid

Also no shade on romance but there's def a lot and lgbtq+ isn't just for that genre

So yes yall are 'gay enough' lol

Glowbat (Aloe)

i agree! queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Admittedly, I use my comics as a vehicle to work through my own issues, so there are scenes planned where the characters have to deal with transphobia or homophobia. But I will always counterbalance that with other scenes that validate the characters’ identities.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmhm my story also deals with transphobia and dysphoria bc I'm working through own issues. I don't think that's a bad thing though

generally I think it's pretty ok if the story is not a constant misery train

(even those can be written well, but they are usually not my cup of tea)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think its perfectly acceptable to use comics as a vehicle for that lee

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahh tbh

MJ Massey

there's no wrong reason to make comics/create a thing

Glowbat (Aloe)

youre a queer creator and you're working with what you know so why not

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know focusing on queer suffering has been criticised a lot but I feel there's more nuance to it. Especially if it's a LGBTQ+ person writing about it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I’m a miserable emo and I write miserable emo stories, but I try to inject some hope into it, because I think that the majority of humans are good and/or want to be good.

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres this comic called dropout that does a wonderful job exploring the grittier truths of being queer

its a fairly short read but its super good

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmm, I may look that up

Glowbat (Aloe)

i can dm you the link! no pressure to read it tho

twothirty

gosh, i just want to chime in because i really relate to earlier comments around labelling comics. I'm bi, but i don't wear it on my sleeve, and my own comic has like...1 straight character. I feel like there is an expectation for comics labelled as lgbtq+ and i don't want to disappoint people who are really looking for that content to be directly addressed.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Tbh I feel many people are just happy, if there's queer characters doing cool stuff (at least that's how it's for me).

Glowbat (Aloe)

i label my own comic as lgbtq+ and the plot hardly hinges on that being the central theme

just a bunch a gay scientists and robots in space

...i swear its way more interesting that that lol

man i wish i could get more of my comic out faster so i didnt have to worry about spoiling basic things geeze

twothirty

haha im into it! Ahh, well probably a big part of it is my own insecurities, but what are webcomics for if not... for figuring out your own crap (edited)

keii4ii

I feel that X'D

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp...I get the anxiety tho

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Mess of anxiety solidarity.

Glowbat (Aloe)

oof yeah

also hey while we're at it with the queer biz in here:

aro/ace/bi peeps are all gay enough full stop

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As a demi-bi dude I fully endorse that all labels are valid.

And that gatekeeping sucks and helps no one

Glowbat (Aloe)

yeah anyone who makes you feel like you dont belong under the lgbtq+ umbrella isnt doin right by you

and your comics should be allowed to be considered as queer as you want them to be

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also all gender identities are valid and don’t hinge on having a physical transition. You’re valid as trans whether you change your body or not.

Glowbat (Aloe)

^^^

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

YESS

Glowbat (Aloe)

all our experiences are valid and the comics we make because of those experience are beautiful

Deo101

Oh man I missed a huge convo, but I love y'all and it's wonderful seeing so many kinds of comics out there and seeing people make their own content

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yo, nothing "gross" about romance, and the reason people flock to it is because romance with same-gender couples and/or trans people has been treated as "deviant disorder that needs to be cured and cleaned up, or at least kept far away from polite society" for so long (and still is, in many places)

All queer stories are valid, queer characters don't need to be in a romantic storyline to count, but please let's discuss that without echoing homophobic rhetoric about queer romance being "gross", yeah?(edited)

MJ Massey

I don't think it was meant gross as in queer romance itself being gross, but more in the finding a general distaste for romance tropes and romance as a genre

but I agree, that we should be careful about implying those sorts of things with our work

keii4ii

Romance as a genre is valid too; the consensus was just that there's a lot of it, and other genres are valid too. That every genre is valid

MJ Massey

true, but people might just feel strong distaste for certain genres from a personal point of preference

it's part of what makes the fabric of human existence so fascinating, we all have different opinions, likes, dislikes, viewpoints...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I love romance stories but the thing that disheartens me is that the queer stories people take most serious are romances

keii4ii

The pigeonholing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Can you elaborate on that Keiiii?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Those are the stories that get repressed and erased the most, is the thing, so it takes more effort to get them produced and shared, and that makes people extra-happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think anyone said romance stories were gross?

Just that it’s not necessarily our jam.

keii4ii

Oh, I meant that's what people are doing when people start exclusively associating a very diverse experience/ group of people with ONE thing, to a point where the people in that group are not allowed to be anything other than That One Thing

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I was reacting to "queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions"

keii4ii

and it's a really unfair, inaccurate restriction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahhhh

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH okay, thank you for elaborating, Keiiii. I couldn't really associate anything with the term at first!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Misconceptions are the reason queer people have been excluded from most romance for so long

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think in that case it was more about people's misconception of queer identities being inherintly sexual and/or romantic though?

and not about queer romance being gross

DanitheCarutor

Huh, I thought 'gross' in that context was more akin to 'outlandish' or 'exaggerated', but I could be misunderstanding.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think it means more that a lot of people fetishise queer relationships when there’s only representation in romance.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Associating "queer people being sexual and/or romantic" with "gross" is still hella dicey

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

the misconception is what's gross, not the queer people or their romance?

Glowbat (Aloe)

re: gross misconceptions :Oh! i think i said that Erin- i don't think i did a great job of explaining my thoughts on that. on sites like tapas and webtoons its fairly common for gay couples to be exploited for an audience thats less interested in representation than fetishization(edited)

MJ Massey

yes I think there was some lamenting that it could be difficult to show queer characters without an element of romance to make their identities apparent?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think they meant gross as in disgusting but gross as in ‘far off the mark’

MJ Massey

because some people wanted to have queer characters but not focus on a romantic plot

@Glowbat (Aloe) I know what you are talking about I think

Deo101

Yeah, though I'd like to add on as someone who is writing LGBT romance, I get lumped in with fetishization content a lot and that is very frustrating for me, too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And it does take a lot of digging to find respectful representation in romance instead of stories made by and for straight people that use bad stereotypes to fetishise queer relationships.

Not that all romance by and for straight people does this.

But it’s a problem in the genre

Deo101

I work very hard to portray healthy loving relationships and people lump me in to their hatred of romance in general or categorize my work as bl or discount it for having that. It gets fetishized or dismissed an awful lot and that's very frustrating for me to see happening

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you want to talk specifically about something you feel is stereotypical or fetishizing, I wouldn't object to that, it's the broad swipes at all romance that become a problem

Glowbat (Aloe)

agreed

queer romance is very important to represent

i dont think anyone here would imply otherwise

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And, hey, sometimes queer writers/readers also enjoy a romance that's unrealistic or trashy or silly or melodramatic, I don't want to dismiss "all romance that wouldn't represent a healthy and respectful relationship IRL" either

Glowbat (Aloe)

very true

Deo101

Yeah, not what I was trying to say.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Idk if anyone was saying that tbh

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think our initial conversation though boiled down to that we were happy to see stories with queer people being allowed to just be people doing things that didnt focus on romance

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally very glad that we are getting a wider variety of queer romance now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

What we were discussing earlier is more that it’s important to portray queer protagonists in all kinds of genres, instead of only romance. Which doesn’t mean romance isn’t also a valid genre.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Sure, and part of my discomfort is that queer characters have already been "allowed" to do non-romantic things in mainstream media for a long time -- it's being "allowed" to have an explicit romance that's new and different

keii4ii

^ I don't know about that. It probably depends on where you are, both IRL and part of the internet?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I never saw a queer character that wasn’t either tragic, a deviant, or the butt of a joke in media until the late ‘O0s(edited)

MJ Massey

both views are valid--it's good to both want explicit queer romance and to also just want to see queer people doing a wide range of things

DanitheCarutor

@Glowbat (Aloe) Yeah, to parrot what you said. I just chalked the convo up to seeing queer characters expand into different genres, and being happy that queer fiction is starting to be known for more than just romance.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There was no positive representation in any genre in the media I had access to for most of my life(edited)

Deo101

It helps with the normalization of stories like that, but I also think it makes homophobes be "more comfortable" with gay stories sometimes in a way that bothers me

I have had someone say that my story is the only bl they can stand so I'm sensitive about this subject though

Cause there's a lot to unpack there

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

The "if there has to be a queer romance, at least make it awful and tragic" trope was absolutely true in my area too

yikes, I can see being sensitive about that

Deo101

Like me writing something that primarily isn't romance and just has a romance b plot is making homophobes and fetishizing people read my work and that's frustrating for me in a way I can't articulate. I'm very happy within the LGBT+ community to have these works be made but among the straight people I know it's uncomfortable when they start saying things like "oh yay finally some gay stuff that isn't romance" kind of thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that makes sense

Deo101

From other gay people I get it, it makes sense and I'm the same way! Especially with the oversaturation of bl

DanitheCarutor

@Deo101 Gah I got a comment like that before, it was a weird situation because not only was it unnecessary but... TGtaHR isn't even a romance...

Thinking about it, that's actually kinda worrying.

Deo101

But it's important to remember that the LGBT+ community is a bubble and though it's safe to explore all sorts of stories here, it's not safe outside of our bubble

Or, not necessarily safe

Like a homophobe reading a gay story with an unhealthy dynamic could just bolster their bad opinions about gay people even if it's exploring it in a healthy way

I have a hard time explaining what I'm thinking and I really hope this all makes sense

keii4ii

I get you

Glowbat (Aloe)

(i get what youre saying deo <3 )

Deo101

And its not something we can really change but I think it's important to remember with regards to society at large and how our stories are percieved outside the community

Phew lol

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I get what you're saying, although in that case, the homophobe was probably going to think that no matter what, and if it wasn't the story they'd find some other "evidence"

Deo101

Yeah absolutely

And I think it's important to remember that when talking about exploring stories that have unhealthy Dynamics and things other than romance and whatnot. I don't want those things to become safe for cishets to exploit basically

Like "oh great now I don't need to write them kissing so I can access BOTH the LGBT and everyone else!"

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ah, you mean like "the author says they're gay, so that counts as representation and LGBT people should buy this, even though there's never anything explicitly gay in the story"

right?

Deo101

Yeah

Deo101

Which again within the community I get and it's important to explore things like that for sure

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the important difference is, writers within the community are going to do something to indicate the queer identity, even when it's not "having an on-screen romance"

And that's something that, say, your average JKR doesn't bother doing

Deo101

Again I have a hard time explaining myself and I might be tripping over my words a bit here

Yeah that's true as well

I trust LGBT people to be navigating stories with an inherent nuance

For the most part

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

That, or (I think people were talking about this upthread) we don't advertise a story as "look at all this representation!" while the characters' identities haven't come up in the comic yet

Deo101

Yeah I know I didn't say my story was LGBT til I had the married couple kiss cause I was worried people would think I was gaybaiting

I know I'm not but it feels wrong to me like I'm trying to rally up readers kinda thing...

But also if you know you're planning to do it I feel like you can say it'll be there

I just have anxiety LOL

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

No, I get you. Even if it's definitely going to happen in the future of the comic, it'll disappoint readers if you rally them up for something that isn't there yet

That would happen with anything, not just queer identities

Deo101

Yeah I also don't tag my pages or whatever for disability if a character isn't disabled on the page

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Like if it was "read my comic for cool space battles!" when you had only posted the 5 pages of setup with characters having a chill talk in a field

sssfrs

I think what bothers me about lbgtq focused romance stories is that they’re often centered on how ~scandalous~ the relationship is and how the characters have to overcome personal biases or homophobia/transphobia as the central struggle

Deo101

I don't want the wrong audience. I mean I also could probably slap bl on my cover and I feel like I'd get a lot more readers but they're not the readers I want

sssfrs

Or at least I dont enjoy reading stories like that

Deo101

Yeah that frustrates me too, personally

But some people like seeing that overcoming idk

sssfrs

My comic has at least 2 visible prominent gay relationships but its not about romance at all

I guess thats personal preference(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think a lot of the time you also know what intentions the person behind telling a story like that has? I have a straight aquaintaince writing BL and it's totally clear that she thinks the whole ordeal is kinda cute and endearing when it's pretty...harsh for actual queer people

Deo101

Mines got 5 and it is about romance cause I absolutely love romance and I love love, but I am overly frustrated with romance as a genre. Which is why I write my own

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think that goes back to the "talk about a specific trope that bothers you, don't treat it like the whole genre" thing I was saying

Deo101

Yeah I think there's a lot of nuance to it that cishet people largely don't have

sssfrs

I feel like it makes the romance into a statement about how society is bad and its not interesting or groundbreaking to represent that bigotry in your media without adding something new

Deo101

I'm frustrated with the often unhealthy Dynamics and the frequency with which homophobia and transphobia are shown.

I live in a homophobic household I don't want it in my romance cause it hurts to see

But, I don't think it's bad to tackle those issues it's just hard for me personally

sssfrs

I like pairing up side characters but only 2 pairs are going to have an Arc. so far....

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I...feel for many cishet authors it's also a good excuse to not have the characters get together right away without actually thinking about why they would not for other reasons (like personality based). So there's a lot of "I'm not gay!!!" type of thing

Also totally understandable Deo :C

Deo101

Yeah absolutely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s also valid, as a queer author, though, to show characters that do have to overcome their ‘gay panic’ when they first realise they’re gay. It’s something a lot of us have gone through, but it’s important to show the comfort you finally feel in yourself when you come out the other end if it.

sssfrs

Why should fiction include all the shitty parts of real life

Deo101

I think straight people see LGBT authors tackle these issues and go "oh so I can too!!!"

And yeah this is why I'm largely drawn to sci-fi and fantasy, I get to entirely remove all the things that hurt me about reality. Dude can just use a cane and everyone is like dope

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Because sometimes fiction helps us process all the shitty parts of real life. Both happy stories that take away shit and gritty stories that acknowledge shit are valid and important

Deo101

Ppl can just be trans and it's fine

I agree they're all important

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I think I'm just super bitter bc here I've seen cis and straight women get awards for their queer romance stories which just hmm)

Deo101

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I agree it's a super nuanced topic

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...I feel like you've also gotta make some allowance for bad writing. Like, maybe someone's not getting a lot of nuance in their story because their skills aren't sharp enough to handle it yet.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Erin!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And one of the ways they'll get good enough to write better stories is by working out issues through writing the worse stories.

sssfrs

My main character is a butch lesbian gnc completely androgynous person and no one is ever going to say anything nasty to her about it

Deo101

I feel you sssfrs lol(edited)

Deo101

I thirst for gentle, nice LGBT stories. I just crave them

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I feel that. As I build Prismal and decided to include lgbt folks in it, my first thought about it was "would there be any reason for them to be hated in this society? No? Then why would I include that theme?"

Deo101

And yes it's important to delve into the harsher realities and I think it's good to use fiction to explore and work through those themes, definitely, but personally no thx

sssfrs

I like where ppl are just all expected to be pan or bisexual by default

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

heh, I literally have 2 comics and one of them is "real world where characters struggle with realistic prejudices" while the other is "fantasy world with 0% homophobia/transphobia."

Something for everyone!

sssfrs

Nice

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m too goddamn miserable to write such nice stories, lol. But writing gritty stories where my characters go through hell helps me process the stuff I go through in my life. But I love reading those nice stories where we can forget racism and queerphobia exist.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe...I've decided to go into some queerphobia in my next comic only bc I want to...explore historical queer spaces and the kind of space does not make sense in a world that's 100% accepting

Deo101

Yeah it's just all about that nuance babeyy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahhh

Deo101

I think that's also why we see so much more LGBT content of all kinds in indie media

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Absolutely

Less gatekeeping, less opportunity for homophobes to shut it down

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

No big boss complaining it’s not ‘marketable’ to be inclusive

Deo101

And I worry that mainstream stuff will be like "ohoho, so that means I can do it too" *stumbles and sets gay people back 10 years in the eyes of the general public *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YEEEEEEAH there’s that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the mainstream is going slow enough that that's far from my biggest worry

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But change never happens smoothly

Sometimes it goes up and down before society evolves into a better mindset

Deo101

Well yeah ofc, but even on a smaller scale of bad people reading good works it is kinda happening I feel like

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So there’s gonna be periods of shit before being queer is faithfully represented in the mainstream

Deo101

Yeah for sure

It helps normalize things but it also can do it in an unhealthy way and it's frustrating

As in people going "yes let's include gay romance *it's just bl tropes *"

And things like that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the best way to counter that is by producing & supporting more stories of all kinds -- the more complex and multifaceted a view people get, the better

Deo101

Yeah

From people who are handling those stories well, too ^^^

Which is subjective of course I know that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Also, something nobody's mentioned that I think should come up...a lot of times you don't know who's straight/cis and who's not. Like, if it's Famous Mainstream Author JKR, you can be pretty sure, but with small-scale indie creators, how much can you tell the difference between "straight/cis artist who thinks BL tropes are how all real gay relationships work" versus "gay/bi/trans/etc artist who understands IRL fine, but it's fun and self-indulgent for them to write those tropes"?

Especially since the artist could be actively in the closet. Or could still be on their own journey of self-discovery and not know they aren't straight and/or cis yet. All the more so since indie creators are more likely to be younger than well-established mainstream standards.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know about you guys, but it’s always BLATANTLY obvious to me by how they’re writing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

How did you confirm it? Did you ask them?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Call it intuition

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't think it's always confirmable tho :C

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Granted, sometimes a person writes with enough nuance that I can tell they're queer, but how do you tell a straight writer from an awkward/inexperienced/clunky queer writer?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know a lot of authors thinking they were cishet and later on realizing they were not

and some of them wrote a lot of "yikes"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s writing patterns and use of tropes that signal whether the person is actually respectful if the queer community or not

Deo101

Also just cause you're working through things doesn't mean it's a healthy exploration that is good for the community at large

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Even if they’re queer and self-indulging, there’s a lot of tells both in the comics and in their commentary

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I think some tropes are fair to criticise no matter if the author is queer or not but there are also queer authors writing disrespectful tropes

it's not sth that I see a lot, but I've seen it

Deo101

^ yeah this

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

All questions of their writing aside, there are definitely queer people who don't respect the community IRL, either...

Deo101

Like it's not good to write glorifying rape fic of pedophilia no matter who you are or how it's helping you work through things. I mean you can write it but then to share it is something else entirely

Not saying those are common things but they're pretty very much "bad" things

And actually glorifying rape is something I do see much more than I would have expected

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And that’s problematic, too. When you’re part of a community but not respectful of it, that’s just as bad as a straight person being homophobic. Sometimes the worst homophobia cones from within the community, but that doesn’t make it okay or healthy.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you share a dark story behind accurate warnings and labels, then it can reach other people who are working through something by reading it, and be avoided by people who don't.

Deo101

Yeah there's a lot of lateral agression within the community

Okay but glorification of it isn't a healthy way to work through those things it's not a dark story

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying homophobia from within the community is okay or healthy, I'm just saying it doesn't have to indicate that the person is straight/cis.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a lot of dark themes in my comics. There is rape, but it is never shown on panel and never never glorified. I think it’s a subject that’s important to talk about, but I find it extremely disturbing how much it’s romanticised in fiction.

Deo101

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

DanitheCarutor

Huh, this convo reminds me of an article a friend sent me from someone's Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/posts/25994657 It talks about creation policing, and problematic fiction. You all proooobably won't agree with it given the direction of discussion (which all points of view are totally valid), but this whole subject is super interesting.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, true, you can’t always know if an author is queer or not. I should have been more specific in whether an author has a healthy view of the LGBTQ community or not.

Deo101

So you might not be able to tell if someone is gay by their writing, but there are certain trends that gay people do not generally fall into that MOSTLY indicate someone is straight, though there's no way to know for sure.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

THAT is always obvious to me.

Deo101

And like def there are bi women who fetishize gay men, and there is transphobia and biohobia and everything within the community

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

If they’re being homophobic or just don’t ‘understand’ the queer community, I mean

Deo101

Etc etc, so even if you can't tell whether a harmful representation is written by someone who is LGBT it's a harmful representation regardless

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

^^^^This

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah. I'm always very hesistant on how to address things like this

Deo101

Me too esp since I have such a hard time saying what I mean

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying it's impossible to write harmful representation, but "this is harmful!" gets used as a cudgel against any representation, so often that I'm wary of talking about it as a vaguely-defined blanket category.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s hard to articulate things clearly when in fast-paced chats like this

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, haha

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for leveling people up, huh?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

eifhiuef pfft

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lol. ‘You levelled up talking about homophobia!’

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I feel we're all respectful and try to explain ourselves and give others the chance to do so too)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for something??

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(so that's good haha)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes. Talks like this are super important to help see each others views on tricky subjects

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, I feel like we're making good-faith attempts to understand each other, which...is not something you always get in internet discussions

To put it very very mildly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

We all have our own stories and unique perspectives, and that’s important to share both in the fiction we write and in discussions with each other

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) The subject is pretty sticky. On one hand artists should be allowed to create whatever they like, on the other if that work can perpetuate harm for a certain community should it be allowed? There is a lot of this going around right now where people want sanitization in media, and what works of art are and are not allowed to exist. Not saying it's bad, but it is fascinating. I'm not fully getting into the convo because I'm honestly super neutral.

kayotics

I’m definitely watching the convo play out, it’s interesting to see a chat like this develop

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yeah I'm taking notes this is not my area of expertise, and it's all good stuff to keep in mind

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm okay discussing & criticizing specific examples (which is probably why I keep bringing up Dumbledore...), but I don't like being critical of broad categories, because they can be so ambiguous & easily misused.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor I think it is very hard to differentiate between people who want difficult subjects to be explored (which is valid) and people who don't want to be called out for certain kinks for example and a lot of the times stuff like "purity policing" gets used to shut legit criticism up. On the other hand there are a lot of examples of callout culture gone wild and honestly ??? Idk anymore.

Deo101

Its very frustrating

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But I'm also at a point where I'm getting super tired of constant discourse so

Deo101

Yeah I've literally had to block words like "ace" cause it's just so often discourse from either side and I'm just so tired of it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus there’s always going to be stories that help one person work through things but that are very toxic and upsetting to someone else. Just like there’s people who are toxic to one person and important to someone else.(edited)

Deo101

I've also blocked LGBT and "feminism" kinda things

I JUST see cats and memes now thank you

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Lee: absolutely, which is why accurate labels are important

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Eyyyy, it's my turn!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes

kayotics

I think it’s important to curate your online experience, and sometimes NOT curating your experience leads to purity policing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

HMM

kayotics

But yes tagging is really important!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think there is the creation of a lot of anxiety in what and what you can't tell in stories

Deo101

Tags are super important but also when someone doesn't think or realize they're doing something harmful they might not tag it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Warning labels all around are always a good idea

Deo101

Like if someone is being a homophobe just cause etheyre homophobic they're not gonna tag that

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

True

Deo101

Why tag it's glorifying abuse if they think it's hot or reality and don't realize that's bad

Etc etc

kayotics

There’s definitely a lot of creator anxiety lately, I’ve had a lot of friends come to me with anxieties about not wanting to start a project they love because they’re afraid of who might attack them online

Deo101

^^^ I've been scared about this

kayotics

Me too, honestly

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same honestly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s always the issue if ‘should harmful ideas be given a platform’ vs ‘stifling voices you just don’t want to hear’ it’s a fine line.

Deo101

I once got all in a tizzy cause I was like "oh my god my planet of women is asking a man for help"

Yeah cause some free speech silences other's

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And sometimes you get people thinking "if I label this with a warning that it contains Bad Content, the internet police will come after me," so they don't use warnings for that reason, and then it's just bad times all around

Deo101

Yeah.

And also there are things no one thinks to warn about, like some very specific triggers

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

Deo101

Its just all around a very difficult to navigate space

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) Right? People do that with anything, if it's not the "purity police" excuse it's "my style", or "I'm friends with -insert minority here-!" I don't bother with the arguments anymore since I've been pushed into them enough, I'm more into seeing opinion on general art policing, or what is and isn't allowed to exist in art. Sorry, I'm being slow at typing again.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Heck, if we're talking about actual psychological triggers, most of them are going to be super-specific

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I have a trigger for fungal growth on bodies now bc I have 3 people who either have probs with plants growiing on bodies OR funghi lol

Deo101

Ya I have a "someone watching someone else sleep" trigger which people use a surprising amount

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...wait, Phin, now you have a trigger, or now you use a warning for it?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor srsly don't worry about it, haha. It's a nuanced topic and I think generalizing is pretty bad when it comes to what you can and can't portray

I use a warning for it, sorry Erin, wasn't clear

I had multiple people approach me so I warn in update posts and should probs also do it on the website

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

no worries, just wanted to be sure

kayotics

I do have an extreme phobia of needles and you’d be surprised how many news sites use active needle shots for vaccination stories

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

GOD I KNOW

I am not afraid of them but like once they are near skin

I don't wanna see...these shots

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a deathly phobia of vomiting and there are NEVER warning labels for it.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I think most people don't regard it and sometimes it's hard to get everything...

a friend of mine, Eli, creates a very gory comic and they put all their warnings on their update post images

and I kinda wanna try to be similarly mindful?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(I’m okay if it’s in a comic and off-panel or the gross part is not shown but the sound and sight are crippling for me and shows and movies just SHOW it all the time)

kayotics

That’s true. Not a vomit fan.

DanitheCarutor

Ah I've thought about using page by page TWs, and I tried it out with one page, but with the amount of triggering thing in my comic I decided on a general warning. (since almost every page would get a warning) A few of my readers also said they preferred not to see them due to possible spoilers.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm...I have a list of possible triggers in my about section

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probably should start doing that bc my comics get very bloody

kayotics

I know I’ll have a scene eventually that I’ll want to have a warning on, but I’m not sure how to warn for it without spoiling?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I installed a spoilertext plugin on one of my comics for that! Now I can put specific warnings at the front of a storyline, and readers who don't have triggers & don't want spoilers can leave them hidden.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OHH that's a cool idea

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, mine is like a general pop-up that you have to click on to proceed to the comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m going to have to look at that plugin. Potential spoilers are the only reason I don’t have really detailed warnings on my comics

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Here's the one I use: https://wordpress.org/plugins/inline-spoilers/

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I'll look into it too. It seems super useful.

Heck thanks Erin!

DanitheCarutor

I don't know how you could make a warning without spoilers, @kayotics! I mean, you might have to if you want to do a page specific one.(edited)

Sorry, my cat sent the message for me.

kayotics

I was thinking a page specific one for the upcoming scene.

So I’m glad that doesn’t seem weird

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'd say super-general warnings are mostly not spoilers. A movie will say "contains graphic violence", and that doesn't tell you who's being violent, or why, or how it's resolved.

DanitheCarutor

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, I think that's not a spoiler, especially if the comic was already violent

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I have warnings for things like ‘graphic violence, blood and gore, nudity, etc. But some chapters or pages probably warrant more detailed TWs.

Deo101

Yeah I'm gonna put in my a/n for a few updates before like "hey there are some spooky scenes comin' up!'

kayotics

I wouldn’t say my comic is already violent, so it’s more applicable for this one scene

Deo101

And yeah things like "watching someone sleep" is gonna be at least somewhat of a spoiler...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hmhm

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics I think it really just depends on the person too. Some readers like page by page TWs, and don't see them as spoilers, others are the opposite. Your readers might appreciate a warning more than mine since your comic isn't overall super graphic.(edited)

Gah I can not type today!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I put "this will get bloody" before some of the vampire storylines, not spoiler-cut -- because it's not a given, but shouldn't exactly be a surprise, either.

Deo101

I also do not mind spoilers whatsoever and I WILL spoil to anyone who asks as I've said many times, but I know not everyone is like me and spoilers are a big deal to many people

"i don't mind spoilers" i love them and they make me enjoy things more for many reasons

DanitheCarutor

Ah same! I'd love to just spill everything!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(Deo high five bc same)

Deo101

My people

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh spoilers got me interested in many comics and I actively spoil myself

like getting into new comics and reading the updates before jumping to the beginning haha

kayotics

I’m very much the opposite

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I don't want to spoil anything, I want to keep people guessing! But sometimes you gotta.

Deo101

Yes. I get incredibly stressed about whether or not things will work out and spoilers relieve that. Even if it doesn't work out like at least I know

I get so so sooo stressed about it

kayotics

Whenever people tell me spoilers I actively like content less

DanitheCarutor

I don't mind them myself. My mom absolutely hates them, and used to make me spoil every movie if I saw it before her, so I'm pretty alright with it.

Deo101

Yeah ik many people are that way

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I also think that's fair

DanitheCarutor

Also spoilers don't affect me either since it's not the content that means anything, but how it's used. Imo

kayotics

Usually for me it’s like. “Ok you spoiled a major character death/reveal, that’s not fun for me anymore”

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH yeah Kay! Tbh

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If there's a big twist, I want to be unspoiled the first time I watch/read/etc the thing. If it's handled well, I can always rewatch it again with the knowledge.

kayotics

Because then I don’t get to experience that anymore

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

that's sth that can also ruin a story for me

kinda didn't get into the current season of CritRoll bc of such a spoiler

with comics it's kinda like...I see them on twitter, read along a few updates and then jump to the beginning so there I don't mind spoilers at all

it's more scoping out if the story's for me

Deo101

Oh man I sometimes only get into things because of spoilers LOL I know I'm weird with this but genuinely I love spoilers so much they make me comfortable with what I'm watching. I love rewatching things cause I know how it goes down and I'm not stressed by it

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I sometimes have troubles to deal with...raw emotions towards media so spoilers help me with that too

like preparing myself for it to hurt

(not always tho)

Deo101

Right yeah for sure

Even if I know it won't work out I KNOW and I don't put energy into getting my hopes up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I hate spoilers, personally. I love going into stories completely blind or with just the bare-bones ‘genre, overall theme’ because I LOVE being shocked and surprised and have plot-twists thrown at me, so that’s what I do with my own comics(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's also fair. Right now my brain's not in the mood for that so I gotta play it save hehe

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still don't like saying "here's what the Beings are" in ads or sales pitches for BICP, even though the page where it was revealed is several years old by now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But everyone likes different things so there’s nothing wrong with giving spoilers for your own stories if people want them(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah it depends honestly and that's pretty okay.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Everyone’s different and everyone’s valid

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't spoil my own story, except with artworks and mostly it's without context or cryptic enough that it's not...a real spoiler

yeah!

in that regard, it's just a huge matter of taste

twothirty

i also jump into webcomics, read them backgrounds for a bit then realized im actually into it and read it properly haha

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hahaha yes

If I get invested without context I know it's good lol

Deo101

I don't spoil on public platforms cause I know people don't wanna necessarily see that (unless it's in an ama but I try to avoid spoilers still) but in private? I'll spill whatever tf u want like

I have and I will again!!!! Lmao

I know no one is gonna write it like me and also it's p linear so the only spoilers people really ask are Character things not plot things, anyways

So I'm not worried about theft im not doing anything super wild or original lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

all my favorite panels I've done are all the most spoilery ones, so... whether I share them or not, I lose

Deo101

Aw man

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

SAME

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

nooo

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

but it makes sense! I put all my effort into those moments where the story twists and turns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Some of my fave panels or pages are when big reveals or plot twists happened

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

and it shows

so meh, I'll live

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So I can’t share them to people who haven’t read my comic yet XD

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

luckily they don't make a ton of sense out of context, but... as soon as people start reading they might be like OHHH I know what's coming now

but it got them reading so shrug

I guess all mileage varies

Deo101

I feel like even the way I talk about my comic spoils it LMAO whoops

I'm made out of spoilers I can t hold them all in very clumsy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha

I feel the same a lot

(But I also just wanna scream 24/7 about my stories whoopsie)

Deo101

I once had readers asking me to sum up a chapter caus ethey were confused and I just waited til someone else did it cause I was worried I'd spoil Something in trying to sun it up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Linear stories are good too, though! Just reading a satisfying, well-written story is great; there doesn’t really NEED to be twist and turns for it to be food.

Deo101

Who doesn't wanna scream all the time and their stories hahahahha

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOOD

NOT FOOD

GAH

Deo101

Millennium is yummy yummy yum

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...for the in-universe version of spoilers, I just had a moment of "hang on, this scene could've been way more dramatic if this one character hadn't already been given a certain reveal last chapter"

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

good food, agreed

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Normally I get away with not having a long buffer prepped ahead of time, but for once I wish I could still change this

Nutty (Court of Roses)

i spoil a lot about my characters more than i do the plot lol

i mean except their backstories sometimes

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Oh :C sometimes it's like this, Erin. Reasons buffers are good, but when do you have the time....

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I've tried putting this one on hiatus to prep a buffer, but it turns out I need the deadlines and the regular feedback to push me through making the pages...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

oh I see. Understandable though...the only time I create real buffer is when I finish a book for print and have a deadline there.

(I wanna try to actually...get better though, since I wanna start a second comic project)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I mean, sometimes if there's a process that works for you, you gotta just go with it and not waste energy fighting it. Even if it's not the Best or Most Professional way.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true. It's just frustrating when you compare the work you get done in these phases vs. every other time.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Clearly the solution is to split it up into smaller books, so you have more print deadlines!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha, that might be!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I need buffers or I get super stressed. Unfortunately I also find them difficult to keep up.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Buffers are very hard to keep up. I'm running out of mine next week, whoops

But I've already started working on new pages

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I have...a half-finished, past-deadline page open in another window right now, lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I haven’t been able to draw for about a month, so one comic’s buffer is getting low and the other’s going to either miss this week or be late.

And I’m stressing about it. -_-

sssfrs

I’m so excited for my story to progress. I’m tempted to talk about it but when I am I think that nothing I say casually will be as impactful as just letting the story actually play out

Desnik

I deal with lack of engagement by throwing my ideas (or myself) at people. I learned that keeping secret twists as spoilers was inhibiting my growth as a writer, so instead I talk through my plots with my writing group and I often walk away with much better ideas to write

We're a kidlit/MG/YA group and I'm writing in a similar fashion, so we usually don't have to warn each other about anything we're writing, which is its own kind of freedom

if I can get the content to be good enough, and land in front of someone who'll help me take it further, then the engagement will follow

keii4ii

(This the right place?)

Deo101

Speaking of a lack of engagement, i feel like my engagement rates are incredibly low. I get a good bit, i get comments on every page and im very happy with that, but it's odd that i dont get more given my amount of readers and I wonder if some comics just aren't the kind of story people feel a need to say anything about, or what?

I think so?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My engagement rates are... almost nonexistent.

keii4ii

I TOTALLY GET THAT DOUBT

When my anxiety is bad, it gets... really bad. "Maybe my story isn't worth commenting/ there is nothing to talk about it." I know that's just anxiety, so I try my best to not listen to that voice.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Although I think my audience is just not there? My page-views are pretty low, too, so maybe I just don’t have enough readers to comment (outside of you awesome SF perps)

PEEPS NOT PERPS

MY GOD THIS PHONE

keii4ii

Yeah, my views are fairly low too, considering the sub count I have on platforms

Come on, phone. We're not criminals. (Probably. )

Deo101

Yeah, its just weird when i have like. 1000 readers on tapas and get 0 comments i guess? I do kinda feel like my comic is very.... Its very linear its character driven and people can onky say "aw cute ^^" so much so idk what they would say

Like its legit .1%

keii4ii

hides the bloody knife

Deo101

ITS IN THE FLOWER POT!!!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I was getting about 1k daily views right after I joined SF but now it’s back down to about 100 a day, so shrugs

keii4ii

Views though, it's natural they spike like that even if you retain 100% of the people who checked out your comic!

because typically, people only go through the old pages once

so they give you more views upon first visit

Deo101

^^^

keii4ii

But I 100% understand the worry of "why do people check out my comic and decide not to read it... is there something wrong with my work"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

On webtoons I think I have relatively good engagement for Eryl considering my low sub number. I have about 350-some subs and get an average of 1-2 unique comments per page, though that number goes up when a character dies. (edited)

That’s true! They do get kinda ‘falsely’ inflated when people binge-read archives

Deo101

Most comments i ever got is when I said "tell me your pet names"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lmao, I should try that

Deo101

And then outside of that when luzio and sage do something cute is the most I get like, organically just frim my content

Amas are second most comments which are again, me starting the discussion

Maybe alk my authors comments should be like "tell me about your fave color" that'll inflate my stats

keii4ii

One person told me they don't comment because everything seems so obvious, and they don't wanna be captain obvious. Which I can respect. But I don't think everything is that obvious if the most common comment I get is "I'm lost"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmmm

Deo101

Hahahahhahahahah

Like "NO PLEASE SHARE THESE THINGS"

keii4ii

IKR

Deo101

Help everyone else out!!!

keii4ii

There is a term in Korean comment section culture

"Konan" (from Detective Konan)

It's a term for commenters who explain obtuse stuff for other readers

Sometimes you'll even see comments like "Hurry up, Konans! I'm too tired to think! Spoonfeed me what happened in this update!"

Deo101

Me reading every comic ever

keii4ii

I NEED A KONAN IN MY COMMENT SECTION

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly I wish western readers did that, but they either get attacked for being ‘Captain Obvious’ or people scream SPOILER!!!! at them

Deo101

I really wish people woukd expkain for me too because then i know some people get it, but ALSO i dont want to explain things i didn't show, accidentally.

snuffysam

one thing i've found that helps with engagement is making sure to include something on the page for people to talk about, no matter how relevant it is. like a while back i had a (in my opinion) fairly boring scene where it's basically "where do we gotta go" "i'm not telling" "please" "ok you gotta go here" so to give readers something to talk about i had one of the characters take a hotdog out of a pokeball and eat it.

keii4ii

There was also this incredibly, incredibly obtuse comic. It had a fascinating hook but then became almost impossible to follow. You'd see comments like "so this is the Forbidden Realm that even Konans cannot enter."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hahaha

Deo101

I try to make every page have something, i usually have 3 goals i want a page to accomplish but it's not very... Fun i guess? Its just kibda like "yes this happened"

keii4ii

It's also kinda sad when you DO put something important to you, and nobody says anything (or worse, says "so when is it gonna get interesting???")

Deo101

Yeah...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So once I spun this theory on a comic by picking it up from context clues. And I was like ‘Hey guys, what if X character is the dragon???’ and everyone was like ‘WELL DUH IT’S IN THE HOVER TEXT.’ I read comics on mobile where hover text doesn’t always work, and after getting sneered at for something ‘everyone knew already’ I was put off of ever being a Konan type again.

Deo101

I never read the hover text unless its by accident I just dont think t

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. And it wasn’t obvious from reading without the hover text so I was really proud of myself for figuring it out. But it just goes to show how rude commenters can scare away well-intentioned ones.(edited)

keii4ii

aaaugh D:

snuffysam

tbh i'm not sure why an author would put something important in the hover text where mobile readers can't see it. or tbh in blogs, side stories, etc. if it's important to understanding the main story, it should be in the comic.

Deo101

Yeah that's what im thinking... Hover text should be for puns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It was revealed later that chapter in the main comic, but apparently it wasn’t a ‘secret’ like I thought it was.

keii4ii

Bleeeh, sorry that happened to you. >_< This is why we can't have nice things

Where is the nearest Konans R Us, I want to order one for each of our comics.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah... I’m very socially anxious / awkward so I’ve been scared away from quite a few comment sections. I still read the comics and buy them if they go to print, but a negative commenting experience usually discourages me from ever participating in the discussion.

keii4ii

100% understandable

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Which is why I feel it’s super important for the creators to moderate their comments (or hire a good moderator if they don’t have the time). A lot of comment sections get toxic if the author is lax about fostering a positive discussion environment.

Deo101

That makes me feel much better about the times ive asked people to cut Something out or deleted comments.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I appreciate that effort very much.

Deo101

I worry that its "disengenuous" or something and if someone has a negative opinion I don't want to be like "nope you're ONLY allowed to be nice to me!!!" But it's not good, i don't think, to let people feel safe being mean In my comments.

keii4ii

Yeah, there is being critical, and there is being mean

Deo101

So I rarely do it but I have and I don't feel any guilt over the times i have

Right

keii4ii

Sometimes a comment can tread the fine line between the two and it's really annoying that it's not Obviously, Blatantly Mean

Deo101

Yeah hahahahahhaha

keii4ii

But I try to remember that I too have walked that line unintentionally and obliviously, back when I was younger

Deo101

Right. I have too

I was like "oh man I am so smart and im about ti IMPART MY KNOWLEDGE ON YOU!!!" *Is a jerk *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That one comic I was talking about earlier: the author had a hard time keeping up with moderating and eventually took comments off the main site. It was 100% not her fault and she was herself getting emotionally distressed from the amount of negativity in the comments. Especially since the comic itself is really thoughtful and has a lot of messages of acceptance.

Deo101

keii4ii

>_<

Deo101

Uhh but yeah! Does .1% feel like about what y'all get as far as comments:readers goes?

.1-.2

I feel like i have no actual gague for this lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It varies from comic to comic (for no quantifiable reason, usually) but that is about right. 99% of readers are lurkers.

Deo101

Dope, I was worried I had like super low numbers when talking with some people and it got me worried about my content

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus subs don’t necessarily translate to active readers. A lot of people just never clean out their library after they stop reading something / subbed it to read later and never got around to it or left the site entirely.

Deo101

But I've also just got a lot of anxiety about what im producing and how it's percieved in general

Yeah ik

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can see people binging my archives from my stats but maybe 1 in 100 or less leaves any comments.

snuffysam

on average, each subscriber to my comic has posted about 45 comments total (which is like 0.07 comments per subscriber per page) if someone clicks on a page (subscriber or not), there is a 0.5% chance of that person leaving a comment.

Deo101

See for me its like. 1 in 1000 leaves a comment...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(It’s okay I get anxiety over it, too)

Deo101

Yeah i was gonna say uhhh whats it called

Shoot i lost mt train of thought.

Right. I feel like the longer a comic goes on tbe less frequently people engage

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I’ve noticed that in my comics, too.

Deo101

Like less readers will have made it to the end, more will be inactive, etc

snuffysam

i've found that my active commenters take a jump in early march (i.e. right after the comic's anniversary), and any time a book ends (since, i guess people like seeing how all the stuff that's happened in the book culminates)

Deo101

Oh that's an interesting note

snuffysam

i suppose that's some other advice on increasing engagement - give a reason for even caught-up readers to leave comments. one thing i've been doing is redrawing old pages and releasing the redraws on anniversaries, which gives reason for people to re-read.

and for end of book stuff, i suppose people are more willing to predict how something is going to end when it's close to ending

Deo101

Hmmmm

I'm taking notes

twothirty

seeking validation through comments is my downfall, because i just dont seem to write a comic that has the type of readership who is into that. What helped was just looking at google analytics and being like "oh right, of course people read this, its clearly here in this data" haha.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

twothirty, same. It's kinda hard to get out of that mindset.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Raises hand I need constant reader validation and get depressed easily when there isn’t. It’s not healthy, but it’s really hard to break out of that mindset.

Deo101

Im not seeking validation through comments, but when i have thousands of readers and get only like 5 it does make me look twice and start wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong.

And yeah it's hard to break out of the mindset

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Me constantly atm haha

Deo101

Especially if you've bee. Hurt in the past and you feel like people secretly hate your work because... In the oast they have

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I wonder if it's actually...a change in how people interact with media nowadays?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh yeah, definitely, Deo. I got so much negative feedback when I first started posting webcomics and it still sticks with me today.

Deo101

Yeah I've been lucky where people have been mostly nice to me or otherwise just indifferent which makes it so I don't have a super negative experience that my anxieties latch onto

And its STILL hard

Because words of affirmation is my love language lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Partly I think it was because I was creating a lot of gender-nonconforming characters in an era when that wasn’t well-accepted in Western comics (reminder that I was surrounded by a veeeery conservative environment at the time), and partly because my skills were just not what they are now. There were a lot of nasty comments from both strangers and people I knew, and it was really tough to work through. I think if I hadn’t had the Tomgeeks forum to hang out in, I probably would have given up.

(For you young’uns, Tomgeeks was a webcomic list site and we had a really tight group in the forums. A lot of that old crowd are now in Spider Forest).

Kabocha

(Sorry, saw the tomgeeks mention! I remember aspiring to be in that group one day, but I was a lil' too much of a noob back in the day.) A lot of media is kind of... Sometimes you need to put a call to action to be like, "HEY LEAVE A COMMENT!" or something - else, they forget in a lot of cases, but ofc that's no guarantee.

keii4ii

Re: people being less willing to engage the longer a comic has been going on, that is definitely a thing

I think it's called archive burn or something

and I feel it too sometimes, as a reader. I feel like I'm not "allowed" to start reading a comic unless I can find a big enough chunk of free time to finish the archive in one session

It's 100% irrational but... it is a thing

I've found that I don't experience it IRL, with physical books. The end of each volume is a really good stopping place

snuffysam

then i suppose a problem is that webcomics don't really have stopping points you can physically see like physical books like when you're reading a book series, you know where one book ends, but when you read a comic you don't really unless you check how many pages each chapter has

and even then it's hard to keep that in mind when it isn't physical

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I definitely understand that feel. It's kept me from doing a lot of the book club comics because I'm like "I got ten pages in, but that's not enough to comment" T_T

snuffysam

maybe someone could program a widget for comic sites that works similarly to the page indicators in ebooks. like "you're 40% of the way through the chapter, and at your current reading speed you have 10 minutes left"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comic Rocket!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Does Archive Binge also have a feature like that?

I feel like they might... I don't use those kind of readers so I'm not super familiar with them.

snuffysam

archive binge lists what page you're on and how many pages the comic has, but there's no reading speed thing no

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know. I'm technically on Archive binge, but didn't get any subs there so I didn't look into it past creating my listing. I don't use those services myself because I like a nice long archive to work through, but I know that comic Rocket shows you how much of an archive you've read.

snuffysam

also, the thing i'm talking about would be for chapters as well as the whole comic. because if there is a big archive, people like to know how long they have before a good stopping point

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I'm on Archive Binge. I don't think I have any subs either but definitely get traffic regularly as if I did. How even does internet work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

snuffysam

i guess recently updated?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually check out the archive page of a comic to get a good idea of chapter length, myself. So I know if I'm in for 10 pages chapters or 100 page chapters. Plus, idk, I have no problem stopping anywhere and picking it up again later, but I may be a pretty atypical reader.

Lmao, I have no idea how the internet works. I was one of the first people to list on Archive Binge and I have never gotten a single click from it. I get a steady number from Comic Rocket, though.

keii4ii

I wonder if it'd be worth experimenting with chapter numbers? Like, re-number existing chapters like "Season 2, chapter 2 of 15" instead of "chapter 20" ?

Deo101

^ thats a good idea

seeing "chapter 20" makes me as a reader go like, oh god, theres so many,,

snuffysam

^ that's one of the major reasons i label things "book X chapter Y" instead of just counting up chapters forever though adding "out of" is an interesting addition...

keii4ii

I'm nearing the end of season/ book/ whatever 2. I should give this a try

Cronaj

Lol, my books are going to be 3 chapters long each, so I don't think it would make much sense for me XD

keii4ii

Yeah, my chapters are short but numerous, so this might have a different effect than comics with longer but fewer chapters

Deo101

I'd be afraid of saying "out of" cause... well, i dont know how many heheh...

it all gets wacky when it comes time to actually make the thing

snuffysam

i mean, could add 'em retroactively as each "season" finishes

Deo101

oh thats true!

keii4ii

I would probably do "Chapter x out of [REDACTED]" (not that but something similar) when I start posting book 3

Cronaj

Yeah, my chapters are around 35-50 pages, so they're pretty long'

snuffysam

listing how many chapters are in book 3 would kinda spoil a twist lol, so i'll probably only do it retroactively

same lol

and some are 80 pages

book 3's going to have one 120 page chapter which is wild

Cronaj

I was thinking about printing 4-5 chapter books, make it more like a manga-length

keii4ii

You know, some comics (Korean comics do this a lot) do like... Chapter 10: Happy Day, followed by Chapter 11: Happy Day (2), followed by Chapter 12: Happy Day (3)

Cronaj

but full color printing is expensive

keii4ii

Dividing what might have been a single chapter into digestible chunks

snuffysam

i've split "arcs" into multiple chapters before, but unfortunately there aren't really any solid split areas in the chapter in question

Cronaj

and I doubt anybody wants to shell out $25+ on a 200 page comic

This is of course, a consideration for the future, as I don't even have the first chapter finished yet, but ya know

Come next year, I'll have some big decisions to make

@keii4ii Is that a webtoon thing? I've noticed that webtoons have shortish chapters

snuffysam

webtoons an entire chapter is posted at once

keii4ii

It's a Korean thing, which means Webtoons gets some of it

Cronaj

I mean, technically I post my comic in scrolling format, so I consider it a webtoon, but it's definitely drawn for print

@snuffysam, I mean the length of the chapters. The chapters (or episodes) are usually somewhere between 50-100 panels long, which is anywhere between 10-20 pages of a traditional comic

keii4ii

(Tangent, but as a Korean speaker I'm very weirded out by the word "webtoon" in English contexts. Over there every webcomic regardless of format is called a webtoon; I guess it's like anime/manga in Japanese? That in Japan, every animated show is anime, and every cartoon thingie is manga?)

Cronaj

Yeah, that makes sense

In the english speaking world, originally there were comics and webcomics, with little difference between except that one was posted online

but when Korean webtoons entered the English-speaking market, the naming conventions changed

The major difference being the prevalence of scrolling-format webtoons, which made people think that the difference between webtoons and webcomics is the format

but really, it's just a naming thing

You can call a comic a manga, and people expect a black and white comic in a specific style, but really, it's just a comic in Japanese

keii4ii

Yeah

Deo101

I usually just say "scroll style comic" or "page format comic" because im putting pages up on webtoons so it feels... weird to me

keii4ii

That too

IT'S A PICTURE STORY THINGIE WITH SPEECH BALLOONS

Deo101

hahahaha

Cronaj

In the end we are all just children XD

kayotics

this is really late, but i've been getting a lot more comments on my main site lately and I have no idea what I did to encourage that.

Deo101

people caught on

kayotics

That's probably all it is, but it's really surprising that my main site is the one getting more comments, since I wouldn't say it's necessarily a well built comment system? It's the native CMS comment system, and I require the first comment to be moderated

keii4ii

Does this mean I can claim I started reading Ingress before it got famous 8)

kayotics

yes

BUT, I'd say that the estimation of 1% of readers (or whatever the number was) is still accurate.

Deo101

.1% ish

kayotics

I have the most eyes on my comic over on Tapas, and while I do get a handful of comments there, it still equates to less than 1% of the total people subscribed. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that (like subscribers who aren't regular readers, people who quit the app, etc), but even the ratio of views to comments is pretty low.

Deo101

yeah I've been noticing that too

I have the most eyes on webtoons but I still have like. a good chunk on tapas and I think those are just more... casual sites

kayotics

yeah absolutely

Deo101

like on comicFury I have way higher engagement rates and i think that's pretty typical cause most of that audience there is also creators

kayotics

I'm sure there's some people who are pretty dedicated on Tapas, but I'd guess that there's more dedicated readers on my self-hosted site, just because they have to specifically seek out the content.

Deo101

^that makes a lot of sense to me

I know a lot of people who follow me on tapas are following 100+ other comics

and i know for SURE I wouldnt be able to take the time/effort to comment on like 10+ comics a day, assuming theyre even keeping up with all thsoe

wow yeah I just checked my list this person has over 6,000 comics theyre subscribed to, and a few have over 500

just on the first page of my readers(edited)

sooooo yeah it makes sense why engagement would be low if people are regularly reading that mant...

keii4ii

I actually rambled about this on twitter recently!

Deo101

and also makes me feel a little bit less bad when people are confused hahahahaha

keii4ii

How I thought I'd get a very small readership who are into what I'm making, but I ended up getting that very small readership PLUS a huge number of people who are just casually reading it

That first expectation was mostly based on my experience with my previous webcomic, but things were different back then. Big platforms weren't a thing, so casual readers were less common.

Deo101

yeah that's really neat

since I've only been making millennium for like... a little over 2 years and it's my first comic, I kinda just started with like 5 mirrors and was like "alright well, lets see how this goes I guess"

I had only ever read one webcomic before i literally have no idea how or why i got so convinced into making a comic

but since I was like 12 years old I was like "hm... I am going to make a comic i think." I just never did any research or tried til recently

or read any. I dont know how this happened

keii4ii

Casual readers vastly outnumbering the dedicated ones used to make me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I think that's just how the times are.

Deo101

Yeah :/ it's hard NOT to notice and feel like you're doing something wrong though.

when its like "okay i have 7,000 subs and got 5 comments" it's like ??? what am i doing WRONG

even though... its nothing wrong

it just be that way

hard to match those two ideas up though

almost went to continue this thought in an entirely different channel.

I think there is also something to be said for people not wanting to repeat a comment

like "oh someone already said what I thought so I'll just give it a thumbs up"

keii4ii

That's what upvoting is for!!!

Deo101

yup!

keii4ii

though, tfw highest voted comments are like "I have no idea wtf is going on lol"

Deo101

YEAH.

also do you ever comment on your own pages?

like not replying to people

keii4ii

I think I did once or twice, back when I actualy had relevant info and didn't have enough room in author's notes or something

Deo101

I've done it a few times, but it's usually kind of to ask questions where I can get replies

keii4ii

I have also seen a pro Korean creator post "first" on their own comic because they were tired of seeing so many of those

Deo101

I did that once LMAO

it's funny when people comment on my comic "FIRST!!!" cause i'm like. dude i get like 10 comments it's not that special to be first

but i'm happy theyre there and theyre excited its kinda cute i guess

keii4ii

Yeah, it's harmless

Deo101

and it's also nice to have people think that they have to race to be first

even though they don't

so it's kind of a nice comment to get even if it's not commenting on my work at all

keii4ii

It's kinda like hitting the like/heart button, just with more HURRY POINTS

Deo101

yeah hehe

oh i do 100% like all my own pages though

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually get the most commenters on Webtoons but I’m (fairly?) sure I have more readers on my website.

Deo101

on webtoons, I don't do it on tapas cause you can see i did it LOL

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think I only ever got one First! comment and that was the only comment on that page.

keii4ii

Hey no shame in being your own #1 fan

Deo101

the one time I said "first!" was cause it had no comments on it for like a year and a hal

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh no, I don’t like my own pages. For some weird reason I feel like it’s cheating.

Deo101

and hell YEAH! I'm my number one fan so much that i'm making a dang comic for how much I like these characters ;D

keii4ii

I don't feel bad about liking my own pages, but I rarely do it because I wait a bit before even looking at the post

Deo101

inflate your own stats its cool. all the cool kids are doing it

keii4ii

And by the time I look at it, I forget about liking

Deo101

I only do it on webtoons cause I have to manually post there anyways

so i post and its like "heres the page!" and im like :) good job me :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I might start doing it. XD I get an average of 5-10 likes per page so why not.(edited)

Deo101

I also rate myself 10* or whatever the max is wherever I can

keii4ii

Yeah, and TBH one like isn't gonna give you an unfair advantage anyway

Deo101

keii4ii

If you're making a dozen alt accounts to give yourself more likes, now that's a bit questionable

Deo101

yeah that would be not so good

but you're a real account who likes your work so why not!

keii4ii

Yeah!

Deo101

I also honestly kinda like to sub to my own stuff and like my pages partially to make sure it's all working right

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should probably rate myself 10* bc both my comics got ratings-bombed at one point for really dumb reasons.

Deo101

like to see when the page goes up and everything

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The ratings have slowly crawled back up a ways, but it’s always disheartening when people attack my comics for stupid things.

keii4ii

Oh, to go back to an earlier point about asking questions to readers to encourage commenting, I might straight up ask next week if my comic is making any sense.

Deo101

ohhhhh man i dont like swingin at that hive lol

keii4ii

I'll have to word it well because I do not want it to be a pity party

Deo101

but i mean it might encourage the people who do get it to go "yup!"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do straight up ask every now and then. Sometimes I’ll get a pity comment when I do and sometimes it’s still crickets.

Deo101

also I feel really lucky that I havent had anyone be like, mean to my about my work.

I feel like trolls have really gone down in popularity

keii4ii

like even right now I feel like nobody's getting it (except maybe <10 people) so..... I don't think the answers could make me feel worse

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I meant I straight up ask for comments, ugh, I misread Keiiii’s post.

I GET IT, KEIIII

I LOVE UR BABIES

Deo101

oh man, I could never just ask for comments. if I'm feeling really down I usually send it to my friends like "can i have smth nice please" I just get really anxious asking people for things

not that asking is necessarily bad I just, as a person could never do that

also keiiii I havent read it yet but it's on my list cause the way you talk about your work and what I do know of it... seems like it would really jive right with me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually do it along the lines of: ‘If you enjoy this comic, don’t forget to leave a comment! Getting feedback motivates me to keep drawing!’

Deo101

oh okay thats not so bad

oh my god how are the eyes moving

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m shameless, you can say it

Deo101

I have too much shame probably

keii4ii

It is my anxiety moving the eyeballs

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Give me sone of your shame, it’ll even us out

Deo101

please take it

keii4ii

(anxiety with Nitro powers)

Deo101

NOOO dont be anxious im gonna love it

god that eyes shaking emoji is so great

keii4ii

ikr!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So fun fact- my real face eyes do that

keii4ii

I think Tatsumaki wants to see you do it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s called nystagmus and it’s super trippy if you’ve never seen it before!

keii4ii

OH, I knew someone with that condition!

I never noticed anything about their eyes (only heard about them having the condition from talking), because I never met them while wearing my glasses X'D;;

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My eyes just RANDOMLY do it a lot and it really freaks people out XD

Desnik

I've found that comments don't matter too much, but getting a boost from someone with a big following does

and the only comments I take seriously are from people I trust, although I get it: chasing the internet numbers is fun

snuffysam

what do you mean by "comments don't matter" you mean, like, in terms of garnering popularity?

Desnik

yeah, and as validation they can be a bit fluffy too

my perspective changed when I started printing out my work as zines and got people to buy them irl, it was very eye-opening

very few people commented on them online but in person I've found out they're not bad? And one of them got me a lettering job

keii4ii

Eh, I think it's okay to have different goals. To some people, good comments mean the world, and that's totally valid to want that.

Desnik

I know, just stating my pov

keii4ii

I mean that to some people, a good comment is not just an "internet number."

Desnik

fair enough

I believe I allowed for 'good comments' as being from someone I trust

keii4ii

Me, I treasure insightful comments from anyone who's invested in my story. To each their own

FeatherNotes

I have a book that I write them down to give me a lil boost to morale when I need it! i def appreciate the time it took for someone to write something thoughtful

keii4ii

Yeah!

Capitania do Azar

Oh comments are like.. What I like the most! (not all comments are the same tho). The reason I put my story out there is so I can share it and discuss it with people and the fact that a few take some time off their day to actively tell me what they think it's what keeps me moving

eli [a winged tale]

I really enjoy comments too. I always respond to my Instagram ones but not the comic ones mostly because of platform difficulties

Glowbat (Aloe)

I love reading through all the comments- they really motivate me when I'm having a low point and need a pick me up to get goin on pages. I just wish I was better at knowing how to respond instead of just liking the comment and hoping they recieve my telepathic brainwaves of gratitude

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Replying to comments is very hard and I always have the anxiety of "ruining" it haha ;; whatever it is (the person's enjoyment of my work?? who knows)

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel that- part of me is always nervous I'm gonna say somethin to off put them or smthn.

Though I do try my best to curate comment sections if things are looking like they're gonna get rowdy

keii4ii

YEAH, and/or sometimes you're like "this comment is Awesome and deserves an Equally Awesome reply... HOW DO I DO THAT" and get stuck in a loop

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss exactly that

I'm not that clever and I require lots of time to come up with anything I'm confident in lol

and by the time I have something cool to say back its been like a week

keii4ii

I made a Discord icon to express my internal response in a visual form to such Awesome comments, but I can only use those on Discord

This one:

Glowbat (Aloe)

Hehe

cuteee

and also a mood

keii4ii

Sparkling tears of happiness

Capitania do Azar

I believe them

Cronaj

Man... I will admit, I barely respond to comments

And that probably sounds terrible

But I honestly don't have time to respond to every comment

As well as the anxiety of not know what to say

It does depend on platform tho

keii4ii

I mean, as a reader I don't expect a reply if my comment is like "ooo nice!"

Cronaj

Generally, I respond more readily to comments on Tapas than on Webtoons, because I only have like 2 commenters at most on Tapas

And usually it's readers who ALWAYS comment, so I almost feel like they deserve a response, even if it's just a smiley face or a "thank you"

keii4ii

But if I've written a long ass essay comment, it would be nice to have some kind of engagement with that. Don't get me wrong, the creator doesn't owe me a reply but it's like... should I ever do this again with this comic. Or is my reply-writing time better spent on another comic

Cronaj

True

keii4ii

I def respect that not every creator has time to read all of the comments, regardless of how many comments they typically get

Cronaj

On Webtoons, I have way more engagement, but most of it is thirst for my characters or talking about the art style

keii4ii

and that not every creator may even aim to get comments

Cronaj

So I don't usually know how to respond to stuff like that

keii4ii

But if that is the case........ I would rather know before committing myself to multiple essay-length comments

Yeah, that is understandable!

Cronaj

I read every comment, but I don't want to respond to all of them

keii4ii

I'm 100% cool with "thicc" comments on my MC's butt or on my tiger dude's legs, but I can't necessarily think of productive replies to those

Cronaj

The only comments I respond to on Webtoons are either a) incredibly funny, b) meaningful and noticing more than the art, or c) a genuine question

Like if someone asks about my update schedule

Or if someone wants to know which programs I use

I had one comment about how good my grammar in the dialogue/thoughts is, and I felt so honored that someone else noticed

Usually I get comments about the art (which is also nice), but I prefer comments about the story or subtleties

keii4ii

It's the best thing when people notice the things that you put a lot of thought and love into

Cronaj

For several years in high school, I played around with the idea of getting a writing degree, so grammar and literary language have a special place in my heart

sssfrs

I respond to every single comment... I get one comment a month pretty much though

When friends or readers say nice things about my comic on any platform I save a screenshot and read them if I start to feel like nobody likes what I’m making

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do the exact same

FeatherNotes

Its a good practice when things are kind of slow! Or just for that lip morale boost too

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #comic tea party #ctp #creator interview #comic creator interview #creator babble

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ayuyikes · 6 years ago

Text

This is a little thing i wrote when i was working out some deets for tiro’s background for d&d, and while im not 100% sure this happened this sounds like a legit way they could’ve met.

"Hold still," she warned with little delicacy in her voice as she pressed the cloth drenched in disinfectant to the wound. He hissed low in pain, his hand clenching into a fist around the fabric of his discarded shirt as if that would make the stinging go away.

After dabbing the surface of the wound clean, she set the cloth aside and reached for her set of clean bandages to wrap around his torso. He tensed when he saw her reach for her salve first, and muttered with a hoarse voice, "Is that really necessary? I don't think touching it is gonna make anything better-"

"It is better," she said when she twisted off the lid and scooped a handful. "This helps against inflammation, so hold still once more."

"Infla-what-" he managed to mutter out before hissing out of predjudice when she smeared the salve on, only for him to fall quiet in confusion.

"It's cool."

"Yes."

"It doesn't sting?"

She wanted to sigh. "Of course not. This is not a disinfectant. Now can you lean a little more back so I can wrap the bandages better?"

He did as told, calmly leaning back on his upper arms so he was no longer bending his torso as much. The cut on his abdomen cleaned up and no longer bleeding, she started fixing the fresh set of bandages around his stomach, ignoring but feeling his eyes fixated on her. She tried to think of something to take the attention off of her hands, but couldn't think of much as she resumed her job in silence.

When she figured she was done, she started loading her salve and the cloth in her pack, making a mental note to wash it later. He spoke up.

"Why did you help me?"

"Skipping the 'thank you', I see."

"'Thank you'," he quickly answered while rolling his eyes in dismissal. "In any case, I was handeling this-"

"Didn't seem that way to me when you had a dagger lodged in your stomach," she rebutted, never taking her eyes of her bag as she was still packing. He huffed.

"Minor discomfort," he tried to downplay but wasn't convincing. "I was winning-"

"It's not winning if the endresult is almost bleeding to death." She finally raised her head, but her eyes were narrow and her face wore a frown. "You should count yourself lucky I was even nearby in the first place! If I hadn't stumbled upon your fight there is no telling if you would live to tell the tale!"

He, wisely, shut his mouth. There was still disagreement in his eyes, but he said nothing when he slowly sat up and made himself more comfortable. Ayuya discarded her bag near the campfire, standing up and hauling more wood into the flames.

"So..." he started again. "Why did you help me?" She sighed at his persistence.

"You looked like you needed the help, alright?" She wanted nothing more but a distraction from the irritating redhead sitting in her make shift camp, but aside from trees there was not much else to look at. "You were severely outnumbered and already injured, did you want me to stand and watch you die?"

He shrugged. "I can't say I'd blame you if you ran tail. Even with your help we were still outnumbered."

"It's 'turned tail'. And even so, I can't just abandon someone that needs help."

He hummed. "So guilt."

"That's not it." She sat down next to the guy as she sought out the phrase. "I know that if it was me in that situation, I would appreciate any help I got. I've always been taught to 'do to others what you want them to do to you', so I went and helped. That's all."

He clicked his tongue. "You're an elf, right?"

She was slightly taken aback by the change of subject. "Wh- Yes. What about it?"

"Well, aren't elves supposed to mind their own business? I never heard of an elf to do charity work like this."

"I- wh-" she gaped like a fish on dry land. "Who cares if I'm an elf! Don't you realize you could've died??"

He shrugged and folded his arms behind his head to lie down, but grit his teeth at the sting in his abdomen. Ayuya saw it and let it happen.

"You're not aware of your situation at all, are you?"

"I'm plenty aware of my situation," he snarled. "I get it that I could've died without you intervening, alright. I just don't get that after all the stuck-up elves I met one just suddenly feels good enough to stick out their neck for once."

She found herself at another loss.

"I can't speak for other elves since I barely know any," she spoke sternly but not harshly, as she weighed her words. "But the one I did know was my uncle and he wouldve never let anyone die on his watch, and I'm not planning on doing any different."

He seemed to have no response to that. She crossed her arms.

"Well?"

"What's your name?"

"Huh?"

She had trouble reading the expression on his face, which was slightly tense but dead serious. Different from the defiance he's shown so far.

It made her a little nervous.

"Why do you want to know?"

He seemed irked at her question. "What, am I not supposed the name of my 'savior'?" he layed the sarcasm on thick. "If I'm stuck here for the night I'd like to not adress you with 'Lass' every time I want your attention."

It seemed reasonable for her, but she didn't feel like complying so easily. "Only if I can hear my 'patient's name first," she snarked, mimicking his need for sarcasm. He grumbled.

"It's Tiro."

"Does 'Tiro' have a last name?"

"Do I look like I have one," he bit back, looking away in what seemed to her as disinterest. "I'm just a guy from a farmer's village. Not much more to my name." He eyed her with curiosity. "Now tell me yours."

She sighed. "Ayuya."

"Ayuya who?"

"I don't have a last name either," she copied his tone mockingly. "I don't know it. I've been living in the woods for years. Not much of a family tree that I know of."

"But you just said you had an uncle?"

"Had."

"Oh."

This time she was the one to shrug. "Don't worry about it. Out of all the things he told me he just never bothered with a last name."

They fell silent and it felt a little awkward after such a loaded subject. She threw another glance at him, and was startled to see him looking right back at her, unabashedly. That reminded her.

"Why did you even get attacked? What did you do to have six people gang up on you like that?"

He shifted his gaze to her purse. "Do you have any water on you? I'm thirsty."

She sighed and fished a waterskin out of her bag, tossing it to him. "At least change the subject subtly."

He caught it just barely, and put the thing to his lips like he just crossed a desert. Water dribbled down his chin, drops falling on his light colored pants which where still tainted with his own blood. Just looking at the dark red stains felt surreal to her. He finished the contents with a satisfied huff and wiped his mouth with the back of his hand before he gave her a nonchalant shrug. "You wanted to know why I got my ass handed to me?"

She snorted. "Who wouldn't?"

He held the waterskin upside down to catch a drop to wash his hands with, she figured. "In all honesty, I don't know myself. Best case scenario, they just think I'm an asshole."

She scoffed. "How is that the best case scenario?"

"It's the best case scenario if you know the other possible scenarios," he muttered while trying to shift to sit more comfortably. A grunt spilled from his lips and she resisted the urge to grab her bag and hit him with it.

"Stop trying to move so much! You're going to end up reopening the wound if you keep doing that- damnit-" she clawed at her bag to grab her pillow, crawled her way over and shoved the thing behind his back.

"Lie down already. Grant your body some rest-"

He glared at her. "You're not the boss of me."

She held him by his upper arms and gave a little push. "Doesn't matter. Just lie down, it will feel better."

He grumbled and eventually let her push him down slowly, leaning his head on the pillow with a low huff. He sought her eyes again with a wary look. "Don't try anything weird just because I'm lying down now, though."

"Wasn't planning on it," she deadpanned while loosening the ties that bound her bedroll to her backpack. She unfolded it and began to drape it over the boy.

"I also have my own bedroll, you know," he started, putting significantly less of a fight as he was starting to feel tired.

"A bedroll is a bedroll," she replied while she finished up getting him tucked in (much to his dismay). "Get some rest, tomorrow morning we'll try and find a cleric to fix you up."

He eyed her quickly up and down.

"What about you then? Don't you need rest yourself?"

They shared a look.

"I'll have to keep watch for now," she ended up saying. "We wouldn't want to be ambushed in case your 'friends' have back-up."

She laid her cape down and took a seat on it.

"Besides, I need significantly less rest than you do. I'll wake you tomorrow morning to get a few minutes in myself-"

"A few minutes? You're kidding, right?" He seemed to have trouble staying put because he pushed himself up on his arms to look her in the eyes, showing obvious disapproval. "I get that we gotta be on guard, but you're not gonna function on a powernap! We can take shifts-"

"Out of the question," she shut him up with a glare. "First off, you're the one still recovering. If there's one who REALLY needs rest, it's you. Second, I'm an elf. I don't 'sleep'," she lectured using her fingers as air quotes, "I meditate and it takes a lot less time than you humans do with your eight hours of sleep. I'll function just fine on half an hour of that, trust me."

He opened his mouth to protest but couldn't find a solid retort so she creeped over and pushed him to lie down again. "I will wake you early next morning, so sleep, for crying out loud. I'm not strong enough to carry you back all the way to civilization myself, alright?"

She sat herself down back where she was seated before, keeping her eye on him before tending to the fire.

"Don't worry. Tomorrow morning you'll be rid of me."

((And then they traveled together for two months))

#shut it cait #cait writes #my ocs #i wrote a continuation on this that i never finished where they go to a cleric to get him healed up but land into another conflict #involving a gang #but uh this works

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primadonnatartuffe · 8 years ago

Text

-- invincibleDetective [ID] began bothering primadonnaTartuffe [PT] at 14:26 --

ID: Hello, hello. Telephone ring.

PT: moshi moshi ryan desu.

ID: Well howdy there, lil lady. I don't suppose you're Ryan's answering AI.

PT: lmao sure. also im japanese for some reason.

ID: Pretty witty for an answering machine.

PT: pretty and witty... much like ryan herself amirite?

ID: The better to take her messages with.

ID: This is. A beautiful stranger.

PT: oh my... im highlighting this information. ryans weak for beautiful strangers.

PT: what kind of message can i relay for you beautiful stranger?

ID: Just ask if she's avaliable for the coffee we promised to meet up for.

ID: Donuts are included. With and without the holes.

PT: well i just so happen to have access to her schedule and it looks like she is good to go on that front.

PT: also highlighting the bit about holes. an important distinction.

PT: youll see her at the coffee can. ;)

ID: Important in the way I wouldn't dare mention when discussing donuts.

ID: Let her know I'm here already.

PT: shell be there momentarily~!

RYAN: *ryan pockets her comm as she enters the coffee can, peeking around until she spots jack. it's easy enough, he sticks out like a sore thumb. she ambles up behind him and plarps him right on the head, mussing with his hair.* here i am.

JACK: *Do not plarp. But also do. Jack accepts the muss of his hair, even if it sends his shades askew. All the more reason to pluck them off and tuck them into his shirt. Angles himself until he's facing her, grey eyes vacant but searching still.* Oh good.

JACK: Sometimes strangers get familiar. It happens.

RYAN: *stupid pretty grey eyes. at least she can stare and he won't know. she slips into a seat next to him.* i know how it is.

RYAN: who wouldnt wanna get familiar with all this? *gestures at self.*

RYAN: by the way im gesturing at my killer bod.

JACK: Might need to demonstrate a little better. Only so much left to the imagination. *makes himself snort and plucks a donut hole up from the cup. Offers it out to her and chews.* 'Nut hole?

RYAN: *grins and takes it* im always a sucker for a good nut.

RYAN: the hole kind or otherwise.

JACK: Take your pick. They're frosting filled. *Having too much straight-faced fun here. He should probably be stopped.*

RYAN: *SNRK* id have them no other way??? *nibbles a donut hole.*

RYAN: thinly veiled sexual innuendo aside... whats up?

JACK: Nothing much. Having some coffee. Having a donut. *munch munch* Spoke with Finn yesterday.

JACK: He was... a little bent out of shape.

RYAN: *frowns, pausing before she speaks again.* is he alright?

JACK: I think so. He wasn't at first. But he's alright. *sips him coffee.* Did you want to order something?

RYAN: huh? oh right. ill get something in a second.

RYAN: what was bugging him?

JACK: Something about... not feeling like he was fit to look after Sofia. *blinks and frowns, looking much like his more somber self.* He was ready to take her to the adoption agency.

RYAN: whaaaat? *frowns too* man come on finn.

RYAN: hes great with her.

RYAN: and its pretty obvious she makes him really happy too.

JACK: Whatever the case... it was also pretty obvious he needed to sit down and reevaluate what he was doing.

JACK: Good thing he did. *mutters* He would have had a lot of regrets, otherwise.

RYAN: yeah... thats a relief. *shakes her head.*

RYAN: poor finn... always going through something.

JACK: But he always makes it through. *offers her a smile* Have you talked with him lately?

RYAN: oh yeah. i was at his place the other day to meet sofia. *kinda zones out thinking about it.*

JACK: What did you think of little miss Helen of Troy? *sips again*

RYAN: *laughs at the nickname.* i fucking adore her.

JACK: Of course you do. It's all a part of the ploy.

RYAN: hey... i know all about that.

RYAN: im plotting to take her under my wing. who better to teach her how to weaponize her good looks than her cool aunt ryan?

JACK: Well. I would nominate cool Uncle Jack but I think I'll settle with teaching her poker.

RYAN: *snickers* thats an important skill too.

JACK: I daresay the two skills are interchangable.

RYAN: we oughta team up then. ;)

JACK: *Oblivious to the actual winks but hears it in her tone of voice.* Good thing I've got the best of both worlds. At least, I like to think I do.

JACK: Confidence is the true power in this world.

RYAN: agreed.

RYAN: for what its worth i still think youre pretty damn handsome.

RYAN: just a little disheveled. *snrk*

RYAN: but hey. same. not that you can tell.

JACK: The hair seems to be working better for you though. *reaches a hand out to feel* May I?

RYAN: go for it. *leans towards him, definitely not blushing.*

JACK: *gently paps his hand in the air around her hair. Nodding as he gets a visual for the style.* Looking good.

JACK: It must be the face frame.

RYAN: oh thanks. *grinning to herself.* i kinda miss my long hair though.

JACK: How long have you had it short for? *smiling too and withdraws his hand. Feeling for his coffee again.* Any special reason?

RYAN: ah hmm... *her tone changes a little, like it's not the most comfortable subject for some reason.* ive been keepin it short for a little less than a year?

RYAN: *shrugs* no particular reason except... maintaining all that hair was like WAY too much work for me at the time.

RYAN: actually i got kinda frustrated and just.

RYAN: chopped it off. there it go.

JACK: Kind of the inverted reasoning behind my own hairstyle choice. *Listens to the change in her tone.* At some point, I stopped caring.

RYAN: hey it works for you too. even if i wanna take a comb to it. *manages to smile again.*

JACK: You aren't the first one. I hear it drives my dad batshit. *returns her smile in kind* It's the small victories.

RYAN: *laughs about that.* aww i miss your dad. i should drop in on the fam sometime...

RYAN: reminds me tho. i talked to rory the other day. *nibbles another donut hole.*

JACK: He's back in town already? I heard he was on Earth... lucky rascal.

JACK: What did he say?

RYAN: heeee...

RYAN: was informing me that someone was looking for me.

RYAN: ...

RYAN: my ex girlfriend.

RYAN: kinda came as some shock to me cuz i thought she was through with my ass lol.

JACK: *raises his eyebrows* That does sound shocking.

JACK: And for Rory of all people to come across her. The chances?

RYAN: its fucking weird. haha.

RYAN: i guess she just wants to make sure i havent fallen off the wagon or whatever. which is cool. not really her problem but yeah. its cool.

JACK: Have you spoken with her?

RYAN: mmm... nooo...

JACK: *Ryan...* Are you going to?

RYAN: *DEEPEST SIGH OF ALL* yeah... i gotta.

RYAN: its just awkward!! we didnt leave each other on the best note.

RYAN: and im kind of exhausted from all this reconciling shit.

RYAN: ive barely even scratched the surface though. like ive still got this extensive list of people i need to see and shit i need to talk about. bluh.

JACK: Not that I'm one to push another on making those kinds of decisions. *hums* I just hope it works out for you... once you get around to it.

JACK: But I know it's difficult.

RYAN: i mean... to be fair its worked out pretty well for me so far even if its emotionally taxing.

RYAN: its just... scary too.

RYAN: taking that first step.

JACK: You deserve to. *says with a nod. Taps the lid of his coffee.* And if anything... here's to hoping your ex understands.

RYAN: yeah... *glances at him.* heres hoping.

JACK: *tilts his head, wondering.* Do you want to talk about her?

RYAN: *seems a little surprised by the question.* not really.

RYAN: ... okay kind of.

JACK: Maybe you can drop her a message. Without necessarily speaking, face to face.

RYAN: that could work.

RYAN: it might piss her off though if she came all the way to skaia.

RYAN: not that its super inconvenient but still.

RYAN: i dunno.

RYAN: shes really grouchy lol.

JACK: What I mean to say is... it can be a process. Building up to a face-to-face encounter.

RYAN: yeah... guess that could work. *takes a deep breath, trying to rationalize.*

JACK: *drums his fingers against the table* Grouchy, huh.

RYAN: haha yeah. real attitude problem.

RYAN: but she was always looking after my ass even if she had to make remarks all the time.

RYAN: i think ive got a thing for sass.

JACK: *finds himself smiling again* And her name? Don't think you mentioned it.

RYAN: *stop that smiling... illegal.* oh yeah.

RYAN: its nona.

JACK: I can't believe it... *appears astonished* Your celebrity couple name is Rynona.

RYAN: *snorts* catchy huh?

RYAN: but like i said... she got fed up with my bullshit.

JACK: Maybe she doesn't see it that way.

RYAN: haha maybe? i dunno how else she would though.

RYAN: i was making her miserable. *stares down at the table*

JACK: *Hesitates. Wondering how qualified he actually was to give her talk to her on this particular topic. It had to go either one of two ways. Hyper-qualified, or severely underqualified. Fuck.* What you were going through... wasn't you. The way your mind was.

JACK: All of that's happened already. It's done. What you're left with now is a perspective... but not facts. Or the whole truth.

JACK: Just remember... Nona has the other half of the experience.

RYAN: *looks up at him, brows knit as she listens. there's a lot of emotion bubbling up remembering her experiences, remembering all the damage she did, and there's something bittersweet hearing this kind of reassurance from jack. she hopes he believes those things about himself, too. he seems pretty well put together from her perspective, which makes it a little easier to put her restless thoughts to bed when they're usually so adamant to convince her that her own illnesses were all that she was.*

RYAN: *she reaches over to take his hand, giving it a squeeze. she can't help the sniffles coming on, but it's a blessing he can't see her watery blood shot eyes. very attractive.* when did you get so smart? geez.

RYAN: *exhales* thanks jackie.

JACK: *Some melancholy feeling spreads in his chest with the nickname. He hadn't heard it in a while and coupled with the gentle squeeze of her hand, the feeling twists in his heart like a corkscrew. Awful but thankfully, present.* I just...

JACK: Had to stop living like I was. Letting myself think how I was.

JACK: I'm not smarter. Just more aware of the poison.

RYAN: *smooths her thumb over his hand. she doesn't want to let go.* im really proud of you.

JACK: *the sad twists persist* That's my line.

RYAN: heheh... i just straight up plagiarized you.

RYAN: you deserve to hear it too.

JACK: *He exhales, doing away with the impulse to disagree.* ...Thank you.

JACK: But it's not my ex we were gabbing about.

RYAN: well?? i mean?? *TECHNICALLY... she snickers a little, but then reality hits her again when it occurs to her this might be a good time to segue into other things she needs to talk to people about... she should at least bring it up. put it on the table where they all can see it.*

RYAN: ... um.

RYAN: hey... on the note of... hashing things out with folks...

RYAN: ... now probably isnt the time and here probably isnt the place but... do you think we could??

RYAN: well.

RYAN: you know...

RYAN: urgh. *DEEP BREATH.* can we talk about what happened between us?

RYAN: sometime?

JACK: *He's blind, Ryan. Every place looks the same to Jack. But still he blinks, acutely aware of their hands still touching. He would glance down at them if he could.* Talk about it... *echoes, feeling the uncertainty creeping on him.*

JACK: We can talk. Any time.

RYAN: *WELL SHE'S NOT BLIND. nor is she blind to the unease. it's difficult for her too.* any time??? okay... cool.

RYAN: thats good to know.

JACK: *Unconsciously, he feels his hand withdrawing again.* Sorry. I was just...

JACK: Never completely sure what I would say.

RYAN: yeah i mean... me neither. *feels him pulling away and awkwardly retracts her hand as well.*

RYAN: i just thought it might be... helpful? maybe.

RYAN: it might be helpful for me.

RYAN: but i dont know about you.

RYAN: ... i know were okay but theres still a lot weighing on my mind.

RYAN: there are a lot of...

RYAN: ????

RYAN: feelings?

RYAN: in my feeling place.

RYAN: ... for fucks sake.

JACK: *Despite his hesitation, he does nod. Chuckling weakly.* Feelings in the feeling place. An accurate way to describe it.

JACK: In all honesty, I'm not much better than you about it.

RYAN: *laughs too, nervously.* cool. in that case maybe we can like... flounder through the conversation together.

JACK: Ideally, that's how I would execute the thing.

RYAN: alright so weve got a game plan.

JACK: More or less. *sighs, trying not to let some stray thoughts snag him into a loop of things.* But...

JACK: You know I don't hold anything against you. Right? *frowns into some distance* Everything that happened... came out of the circumstance.

JACK: The timing was bad... everything... but the feelings were bad.

RYAN: i-- *swallows, her expression softening.* yeah i know.

RYAN: like... i /know/ but i guess i still... worry about it.

JACK: Why? *eyes flicker to her as if he can really see her for a second. But the look dissolves away soon enough.*

RYAN: *plays with the donut hole cup, shrugging. she didn't notice him looking at her.* sometimes i worry that im... too much for people to handle.

RYAN: when you were already going through so much.

RYAN: like realistically i know it wasnt my fault? we both had our shit.

RYAN: but i still wish i couldve helped more. i didnt wanna drag you down i wanted-- to work through it with you. *rubs at her eyes with her palm.* i dont feel that way very often?? even now.

RYAN: its... probably dumb to dwell on it. im trying not to.

JACK: *closes his eyes, letting himself card through the blink of memories. Anything he could remember in the dull, dreary haze he lived in before.* It's not dumb to dwell on it. I broke up with us... feeling as if I was fulfilling the failure I had set us out for.

JACK: It was wrong to enter the relationship like that. But I wanted so fucking desperately to feel like I could have something for myself. But I was wrong.

JACK: I never felt like I deserved you. So us... the relationship... was lost long before I could even let myself have it.

JACK: That was my mistake.

JACK: Not yours.

RYAN: *it's a lot to process, and she's quiet while she does so. it hurts to know she really had been shut out from the beginning, but it makes sense, and she knows as much as she wanted to open up to him too, she didn't know how.*

RYAN: jack...

RYAN: i still-- *swallows down her own words. rephrases.*

RYAN: i miss you.

JACK: *There's a tightness in his throat, but Jack doesn't let it get in the way of what he's trying to say. If anything, he smiles. Weary for the world.* I miss... being able to make you laugh just by being around.

JACK: If I'm nothing else. I'd like to be that again.

RYAN: *catches a couple tears that manage to fall, a watery laugh tumbling out of her.* of course you can baby. you always were.

RYAN: nothing could change the fact that you just...

RYAN: make me really happy.

JACK: Then I'm glad. *Effortlessly it seems, he finds her hand again.* I don't need anything else.

RYAN: *tangles her hand up in his, holding them up to her cheek for something to rest against. she shuts her eyes, making no attempt to stop her tears now.* me too.

JACK: *It's easier to focus on the stream of her tears than the well threatening to press from his own. But he lets his hand linger.* I can't say for sure. But you're probably smudging your make-up.

RYAN: *giggles softly, huffing a relieved sigh.* i dont care.

JACK: Fine by me.

JACK: Can't exactly tell the difference.

RYAN: *nuzzles against his hand.* if anything it adds to the recovering burn out aesthetic i got going on right now. you know im always a slut for Aesthetic.

JACK: Hey. Same here. *uses the free hand to skirt the shades onto himself.*

RYAN: hahah fuck. we look like we came out of a quentin tarantino movie or some shit.

JACK: Now that's what I call aesthetic. *sits there a moment contemplating.* Hm.

JACK: I wonder.

JACK: Did you go on many dates besides Nona?

RYAN: dates? nah... not really.

RYAN: fucked around plenty before her but uh.

RYAN: even with her we just kinda fell into it.

JACK: Bad to the bone. *but he sounds admiring.* Can't say I had the same luck.

JACK: Must have been the summer of crocs.

RYAN: oh jesus.

RYAN: please tell me that phase has passed.

JACK: It's hard to say. I don't know what my shoes look like nowadays.

RYAN: then you wont notice when i banish them to the shadow realm.

JACK: Unfortunately not.

RYAN: a win win for everybody. *grins*

RYAN: poor jackie tho... hes overdue for a hot date.

JACK: I'm just one guy. Living in a dark sexually frustrated world.

JACK: Surprised I made it this far.

RYAN: you cant even see the sexy babes all around you?? i cant being to imagine how difficult that must be.

RYAN: especially when the sexiest babe of them all is right in front of you.

JACK: With a voice that can raise the dead. *nods knowingly* Among other things.

JACK: This is the part where you sensually whisper, "Yard sard."

RYAN: fuck.

RYAN: do i make your yard sard????

JACK: My yard is apeshit bananas sard.

JACK: Here let me just... *takes out his comm...*

RYAN: *peeps over his shoulder curiously.* ... oh my god.

RYAN: so youre putting out a personal ad now huh?

JACK: Just as I suspected. *places the comm right at her.* Nothing.

RYAN: *TYPING WITH HER OTHER HAND* wow what a bummer.

RYAN: *snrks againt jack's shoulder at him teasing finn. a national pass time.*

JACK: *Honestly.* Finn is a national treasure.

RYAN: love that boy.

JACK: Gotta.

RYAN: *softly singing milkshake now.*

JACK: *snickering at all his own stupid jokes. An excellent use of his time.*

RYAN: *aww. he's so cute when he's smiling and having a good time. it's so nice to see. don't mind her if she just keeps admiring him while leaned against him.*

JACK: There's that. *stows the comm away in his shirt pocket.* Remind me to try again later.

RYAN: you got it.

RYAN: ill just have to keep you company until you can a response.

RYAN: **get?? wtf are my typos today

JACK: The ultimate wingman.

RYAN: im actually a really shitty wingman as i tend to draw all the attention to myself so... sorry in advance.

JACK: Wow. *sounds bemused*

JACK: I can safely say I did not see that coming.

RYAN: do you feel betrayed?

JACK: Envious. But I'm sure it's a sight to behold.

RYAN: *snorts.* if its any consolation im not really interested in bringing all the boys and girls to my yard right now.

RYAN: (test)

JACK: (( test ))

RYAN: (YE)

JACK: Well...

JACK: As they say.

JACK: More milkshake for you.

RYAN: *smirks at him* do they say that?

JACK: They're pretty wise for their age, I hear.

RYAN: well its a good saying. this milkshake is too tasty to share with just anybody tbh.

JACK: Write this on the reviews. That Jack Crocker remembered it fondly.

RYAN: oh yeah im sure you did. living in that dark sexually frustrated world of yours.

RYAN: very fondly.

JACK: In my defense. I have nothing else to use for comparison.

RYAN: do you need anything else? ;)

JACK: An ice pack. *he's so smug*

RYAN: you need a full blown cold shower.

RYAN: you know you really are repressed. we opened up this whole evening with nut holes.

JACK: You could say...

JACK: ...

JACK: We've come full circle.

RYAN: ...

RYAN: god.

RYAN: dammit.

JACK: *lowkey knifecat.jpeg*

RYAN: *snickers...* hey did you have any other plans for today?

JACK: Nothing that can't be rearranged or postponed.

JACK: Why do you ask?

RYAN: i was wondering if i could walk you back to your place... and just hang out there for a while?

JACK: That sounds like a plan. *starts to rise out of his chair* I think Sage recently bought a remastered copy of One Hundred and One Dalmations.

JACK: Let's break that in for her.

RYAN: ooh i like the sound of that. *stands with him, looping their arms.*

JACK: *lets her take the lead* Then we can go for some Dominos. The pizza and the tabletop game.

RYAN: youre just full of great ideas. *smiles, absolutely content as she leads him out of the coffee shop and back to his place.*

#invincibleDetective #in which can we talk about us

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lovenerdywinnerbouquetfan-blog · 6 years ago

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