#im literally just talking about how much i prefer dick and tims relationships

[oifaaa]

I find that people who get upset at fans who prefer canon are also the ones who don't read comics/don't want to read comics though I don't really get it. I like a bit of fanon too but what's the point of fanon if not supplemented by canon? if your fanon so directly contradicts canon then how is that not just an oc? ("but new52/modern writer says--!" those people don't read comics either and just go by word of mouth that's how we got stuck with Morrison's Talia)

Here's the thing and I've said it before I don't care if you've never picked up a comic in your life and your happy enough just getting content for these characters through fan works - honestly if your happy and enjoying yourself that's all that should matter - but then I've also spoken to a lot of lovely people who have never seen a comic panel in their life and don't get offended when I bring up more canon traits of characters or try to argue with me when I mention something that is canon but has a popular fanon that contradicts it - which really is the thing that bugs me when someone sees me discussing canon and takes that as a personal attack against them and all their beloved fanon like I've not got my own beloved fanon I refuse to let go of

[irena-dubrovnaa]

damijon, timsteph, dickroy and rosecassie (as in wondergirl lol <3) for the ship bingo xoxo

OUSGISSHJ i could write literal essays abt each one of these

1)

okay so i have very mixed emotions about this one, bc on one hand i feel like in main continuity it wouldn't work out, but maybe in like an elseworlds thing it could??? but im also very much a fan of them not being romantic but not also being traditionally platonic so i just settle for calling them "a secret, more sinister third thing". also they're both trans. so like. t4t best friendship that only they (and me) really #Get. i just have so many complicated feelings about their lore and friendship and how damian's friendships are so inherently complex because of how he operates on a personal level and jon simply understanding and not needing damian to change a thing, they're just so content existing w each other and within each others spaces. i very much appreciate how even after all the change they've gone thru they're still close and care about each other, and i am also a massive fan of them both getting along with each others People

2)

OH LORD OK TIMSTEPH OK i don't think ive ever actually talked abt them before, but i should. they're t4t bi4bi most definitely. i actually did enjoy their relationship to an extent while they were dating but it wasn't entirely my cup of tea bc i tend to ship them w other people but the appeal was definitely there, like it was clear how much they cared for each other, its cute and its there and i can get behind it. i do actually prefer their dynamic as exes because of how rare it is to see m/f friendships without ulterior motives on either part, ESPECIALLY if the characters in question are exes, so it's actually refreshing to see them still have a caring dynamic without secretly being hung up on each other. i also think tim's regret over ending it the way he did was nice to see, because while it wasn't out of character to ghost her it also wasn't out of character for him to look back and realize "i could/should have handled that better" so i feel like it does well to convey how he does actually still love her even if not romantically anymore

3)

H. HHHH. SHAKES THEM

i feel like their dynamic in preboot comics is a hell of a lot better than anything the new 52 or rebirth had to offer. i miss when roy and donna were dick's best friends honestly. i feel like their relationship was sidelined a lot in favor of jason and roy and dick and wally which sucks because??? they were fine as they were?? they've got a lot of love and care for each other, especially in the 80s and 90s comics, they're always complimenting each other and telling each other how well they're doing but they're also not afraid to call each other out if one of them does some stupid shit, i think thats good for both of them. i also think roy's relationship w the bats would be funny, as well as dick's relationship with the arrows. they've both got similar family dynamics but also very different in a loooot of ways

4) NOBODY EVER TALKS ABOUT THIS SHIP SO *IM* GOING TO

i literally can't get over their rivalry, like they hated each other so much but also there was just something so unexplainable about them to me??? like idk i just always loved how they interacted even when they were arguing and fighting. i just KNOW if dc let cassie be butch in the 00s during the peak of their rivalry they would have kissed. i feel it in my bones. it's also nice to see since they've both got more complex relationships w the people around them it would be nice to see them sorta bounce off of each other in the respect that they've got a lot going on and they know how the other feels so they bond over the struggles of navigating relationships and friendships and just life in general. i also think it'd be funny to watch diana smack slade for saying smthn out of pocket at like an in laws family dinner or some other gathering but thats mostly just bc i think slade should be smacked in general

[businessbois]

You know I was also a fan of batfam, and I was just thinking about it, and the batfam shares a lot of similarities with sbi.

You have Phil and Bruce who, depending on the depiction, fall all over the best parent-worst parent scale. Some people think they’re the world’s best parent who is super attentive to their kids, some people think they’re full on abusive(though most of that end think they’re just neglectful), and still others think they’re bad but trying their best. They’re given the mentor role and all the kids desperately crave their attention. They are commonly depicted as being extremely scary to the outside world, but much softer to their family.

Then you have Wilbur and Dick. The sensitive older brother who basically parents their younger siblings. The one who is good with words and getting people to like them. The one with the strange talent that no one else in the family has (acrobatics and music). Hides their own negative emotions in favor of taking care of others. A leader who’s willing to take on emotional distress for the sake of those they lead. Not super buff, preferring to use more subtle and tricky ways of fighting.

Techno and Jason. The strong tough children who actually have a lot of emotional distress that they don’t know how to express. Doesn’t like to admit it, but is super protective over the people they love. Has a small group of friends who handle things in ways that many people look down on who they trust with their life. People trying to kill them, but they come back through some magical artifact (the Lazarus pools and the totem). Far more violent than most of the family, has less problems with killing others.

Tommy and Damian. Clearly younger than the others. Is secretly super soft and loves animals and their family, but hides it behind an agressive and often violent mask. Bonds with other kids but doesn’t like to say it, but the other kids realize anyway. Has a complicated relationship with their father figure and a very close relationship with one of their older brother figures. (Bonus points to the fact that a lot of people have started to make Tommy biologically related to Phil as a clone created to rival ‘the angel of death’ similarly to how Damian was raised to become greater than Batman)

And then despite not actually being a part of sbi, Tubbo somewhat matches Tim. They’re both the Tech kids who had their own family but got adopted in. They’re both usually described as the logical ones who run on chaotic genius and no sleep.

So I feel like it’s not surprising that fans of one are often fans of the other.

omg yes i want to talk about this all the time!! so i know the batfam personalities change with like every writer and reboot and fanon perception but there are so many good comparisons to be made and i felt so strongly i wrote an au about this. you really said most of what i was thinking about but ill add other little points.

so yes phil and bruce obviously. even like their titles the "angel of death" and "the dark knight" are kinda similar in a way. i dont know if this makes kristin talia or selina but i love it.

wilbur and dick. this feeds my oldest sibling wilbur preference and just fits so well. like, they're both performers, they're closer to tommy/damian, they're extroverted and better with people. i didnt even think about some of the stuff you listed like the leadership and fighting style but you're so right.

techno and jason i feel very strongly about. so yeah the violence is the obvious comparison. there's also like the fondness for literature which is a trait of jason's i hold onto dearly. there's a frame in rhato where jason has the art of war on his bookshelf and that's just perfect honestly. im sure theres something with niki as starfire that could be drawn with her being wilbur friend but then joining techno's group later.

tommy and damian. tubbo's his jon (i almost said colin but i remembered colin doesnt exist anymore) and like henry and batcow? it's perfect. damian was very briefly vegetarian in some iteration and i mean osmp tommy's a vegetarian. i'll take any tiny connections i can make. i literally thought about damian and bruce when the "tommy was made in a lab" theory arose. i have a complicated opinion on damian but to be fair its been awhile since ive been really into dc so if i took a look at him now i feel like my opinion would be better especially with all the connections that can be drawn between him and tommy

you saying tubbo is tim brought me an image of the absolute hilarity of ranboo being stephanie so thanks. the only caveat there is the fact that tim and damian just do not get along. to be fair, none of these guys get along in dc canon, but i chose to ignore that.

but yeah i like didnt think there'd be batman and mcyt crossover with fans, but there is and that's real neat cuz then i get to do little rambles like this with you

[ectonurites]

Batcest shippers read comics, actually. And they write them, and draw for them. Please continue to make a fool of yourself pretending otherwise.

i got ranty here so the tldr: yeah no shit, you’re taking something i tweeted entirely out of context, i’m well aware of those facts and im not ‘pretending’ anything lmao

onto my full response:

i see you must have come from my twitter! and yeah, i’m unfortunately aware there are people who ship batcest working for dc, its super upsetting! the person who designed the current red hood outfit just posted j*ydick on their twitter today, which is horrifying to see.

like listen im not... im not gonna go out and harass people for shipping batcest. I literally do not have the energy, and I know I’m not gonna be convincing anyone of anything bc the people who chose to ship batcest have made their choice there.

but I’m always gonna advocate for like, those people TAGGING THEIR SHIT so that especially minors but also anyone else who doesn’t want to see fuckin’ incest doesn’t need to. And like, the creation of lists of what creators are making that stuff so people can block and move on? I also think that’s good. Like I don’t think people should go harass anyone over this because its just... theres no point. But letting people who don’t want to see it know who to block so they can move on? that’s a good thing.

The comments of mine I think you’re specifically talking about were about a specific but common type of fanon batcest shipper, because like... immabe real! its very clear a lot of the batfam community on here in general don’t read the comics, (like, as in many people will OPENLY ADMIT that they don’t) and thats not even an inherently bad thing, like people are allowed to interact with media how they want to! But when people get so divorced from canon by only reading fanworks or versions of characters that have been altered and their relationships altered, its easy for misconceptions about all of it to spread, and people to be shipping pairings that literally bear no resemblance to the canon versions/relations of the characters. This isn’t even exclusive to the people shipping batcest. However with the people shipping batcest like... its when those relationships in canon get blurred by just a fanon game of telephone that it becomes easier for them to justify shipping it, you know? That was the point I was trying to make on twitter (i think it was last night? this morning? i dont remember. its 1am rn time is fake)

but like, i’m sorry but in current canon Jason, Dick, Tim, and Damian all consider each other siblings (and Jason had even made a comment at one point in rhato about having four brothers, meaning he probably includes Duke too!). That is... canon. You can see multiple instances of this if you’re reading current comics. And while they have complicated relationships with Bruce, they do all consider him a father (even when Jason says he doesn’t- he literally flip flops on it depending on how he feels in a given day because of his trauma and stuff, but like there will be times only a few issues apart where he will or won’t admit Bruce is his dad). All of these characters have been adopted (or in Damian’s case obv adoption wasn’t necessary) by Bruce in canon at different times (and Cass also, but that’s only in pre new 52 as of right now)

If you are chosing to ship any of the siblings together (or any of them with bruce) you are chosing to ship incest. That is an active choice you are making, and you have to accept the consequences of that. Any judgement/backlash you face for shipping incest is something you are accepting by chosing to ship it.

And if you go “oh but they’re only adopted siblings not REAL siblings-“ you’re an asshole, because adopted siblings are real siblings. I don’t care if they didn’t grow up together, do you realize how invalidating that is towards like, real life people? The amount of people I’ve seen who are adopted themselves get insanely triggered and upset by that kind of content (not just in this fandom btw!) because it just shows people don’t see those familal bonds as being real? It’s not insignificant.

I know ‘media affects reality’ is a controvercial topic, and like obviously ‘i see this thing in media thus i will do it’ is NOT how it works, but the things you normalize/glorify in media you consume says a lot about your thoughts on the topics. Framing matters. Like obviously ‘haha i watch hannibal, gonna go eat people now-‘ is not the case. especially because that media doesn’t frame it as a good thing. That’s the thing I think people miss in these discussions a lot of the time. If you are like ‘i am going to explore how traumatizing incestual relationships could be through these characters’ with batcest? like go off! that could be interesting honestly, and that’s not glorifying it. But acting like ‘omg i just think its so romantic ❤️’ with stuff between characters who canonically are siblings... again you are accepting the judgement that may come your way by publicly doing that.

anyways, i’m well aware of how prevalent batcest is both in the comics industry and around here, i’m aware plenty of them do read comics, and you definitely missed the context in my tweets of me saying things like “a lot” “it feels like many” etc when saying batcest shippers don’t read comics. Context matters my dude ✌️ (also wanna point out, a lot of really gross people work in comics. Racist people, antisemetic people [even today there was some controversy abt that in some hulk comic i believe?] these people being in those industries is... not a good thing even if its normalized???)

But really I think its kinda funny to uh call me a ‘fool’ for something you think I’m doing because you took my words out of context. And maybe you weren’t trying to come off as smug but you absolutely do here and it just strikes me as very funny that you like... are acting like you’re smarter than me or better than me for being okay with incest being normalized in a fandom for superhero comics, a type of media that MANY KIDS READ AND PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSION ABOUT, while I’m bothered by it.

I don’t talk about this stuff much on here because again, I don’t want to fight about it, I’m not gonna go out of my way to try to change people’s minds on any of it because I know that won’t accomplish anything, I much prefer to just... ignore the content I don’t want to see, maybe warn other people especially minors who also don’t want to see it, and move on with my life. You really didn’t need to bring this to my inbox here, but like go off I guess 🤷

editing this quick just to add in the tweets i made i think this anon is referencing that i very clearly started with ‘so many of them’, not me saying it applies to all of them

[fictionkinfessions]

i want to be back with my team. preferably my s1 team because they were all wonderful and i wasnt as stressed all the time because i wasnt leading the team.

im so grateful for kaldur and i just. i just miss standing there and waiting for wally who somehow was always late or literally just in time even though and for him to show up, coming in from the left, go behind me, stopping at my right. I miss it. i miss how he went so fast sometimes he'd almost pull me over when he ran right behind me and my hair and cape would always be pulled by his like, wind. i miss it! i miss artemis shooting arrows to get your attention if you were in the training rooms etc. i miss everyone forgetting connor didn't grow up like we did so he didnt know how to do a lot of things. he couldn't read for a really long time!!! i miss making jokes about his age too and i miss me and him sometimes sneaking out to check on known cadmus buildings to make sure they weren't making another superboy even though we weren't the closest. pretty sure they were tho. I MISS MS. M TOO!!! i miss her cooking/baking i miss her laugh i miss her. i also miss her ship that was very comfy and very useful. i miss them all so much. of course i miss everyone else as well!! i just. i want to go back to just us kicking butt and sneaking around under batman's nose.

BRUCE. oh gods he was wonderful. i love him so much. yes sure in other dick grayson tls i have bruce wasnt great and i hated him/our relationship was not good but youngjustice!me's bruce was wonderful. he cared, he truly did and he only let me become robin was because i found out about him being batman by myself. he wasn't gonna let me but then he thought it would be a good idea since i was already sneaking out to try and find my parents murderer. why not do it supervised? but he did care. i remember us, slowly and not on purpose, building our batfamily. when bats went to that other planet in s2 he gave us a pep talk, told us to take care of each other and that hed be right back. of course he wasnt right back but. he also gave me instructions for if tim got sick. i miss my c!dad. i miss bruce. i miss alfred too, gods he was wonderful. tim was my younger brother and he was so smart and so funny and so good at being robin i miss him. i miss teasing him about not being the first robin and messing with him. "way to get your feet wet" yk? i just miss them all so much.

-D. Grayson. (Young Justice).