#im a nonbinary who doesnt lean toward any other gender identity and presents the full spectrum of fem to masc

[mejomonster]

Any other trans friends i could use ur personal knowledge input. Ill also look this up though so don't worry im assuming like the definution of bi theres gonna be varied overlapping definitions

(So pre warning these first big paragraphs are preamble on what ive heard as far as more recent definitions, it can ALL be skipped down to my question. Basic summary is: DEI taught about gender identity, gender presentatuon, and sexuality spectrums and how they dont necesarily match the way stereotypes would expect as each Individual experiences those 3 spectrums their own way). Okay so the last time i got proper formal definitions taught was a Diversity Equity Inclusion training. Which was eons ahead of what my schools ever taught but it was still not all encompassing. Training included mentioning: sexuality is a spectrum, pansexuality and bisexuality are being able to feel attraction to multiple genders, heterosexuality and homosexuality are attraction to one gender, asexuality as an umbrella term for people who experience no sexual attraction or various levels different than the other sexualities, queer is an all encompassing umbrella term that lgbt people may use but a person outside the community should not use to refer to a person unless specifically asked to (and its also a label various academic texts use to describe lgbt elements discussed). Also the romantic attaction spectrum was mentioned, as like the sexuality spectrum but not necessarily matching it for any particular person (as in one can be bisexual and demiromantic, homoromantic and asexual, not just say bisexual and alloromantic). Training mentioned gender identity is a spectrum (and nonbinary is an umbrella term, as is genderqueer, for various identites that dont identify as men and women, agender includes people who do not identify with genders - basically gender is diverse as human experience, as with all other points).

Gender Presentation is a spectrum, and they do NOT have to match up (such as a butch woman, a feminine woman who goes by he him, a feminine man who uses he him, a masculine looking man who wears dresses basically in terms of clothing hair pronouns social activities any person can embody any kind of traits along the masculine to feminine spectrum - and may also align them differently as in a country woman may see "girls dont cry!" As a feminine associated expectation while an oldest son might also see "boys dont cry" as a masculine associate expectation to his own life experience, i could go on forever but basically clothes/hobbies do NOT equal gender identity. Pronouns do NOT necessarily equal gender identity). So like. The trainer my nonbinary coworker used examples like them using the pronouns they/he/she and prefering to dress more masculine but still using they/she/he and sometimes really enjoying dresses and still using they/she/he, of how some butch women may prefer he him or she her and theyre women If they simply identify as women, women who wear pants and no makeup and go by she her, men who love makeup and go by he him, some of my coworkers realized that day they prefered they/them (presentation) even if their gender identity was man or woman. Basically the point is Presentation is diverse. There is no one to one perfect list of traits to define what each gender identity "must be." Youre your gender identity because you are that gender, it feels right for you. You express and present yourself how you want, and that doesnt necessarily align with masc for men or fem for woman or androgynous for nonbinary, those are just the basic things strangers might assume. And the person labelling themselves understands more than you. (So in this case like gender nonconforming presentation would be a man who wears glam makeup or woman who never wears makeup, a nonbinary person who leans heavily into clothes that arent associated with androgyny, im not explaining well but i hope u are kinda getting my point).

Anyway my point was Gender Identity (im a guy a girl im nonbinary im agender), is not the same as Gender Presentation (the spectrum of human traits society vaguely interprets as masculine feminine and androgynous and where each individual lands in terms of presenting themselves such as clothing, hair, hobbies, social traits, etc)

Now my question Im really confused about:

Im nonbinary im bi. Im also a few other things and sometimes just saying im queer makes my life easier.

Im a bit confused about what transmasc and transfem as labels mean. Because i can only interpret the words on my current knowledge by guessing the masc and fem in the words Either relate to Gender Identity, or Gender Presentation. The words obviously are for trans people. But i have no idea at all where a trans butch woman falls in this scale, or a trans man who dresses very femininely, or nonbinary people like me who embrace masculinity and femininity a lot (and hey its okay if maybe nonbinary ppl like me just dont fit inside these terms).

Is the masc and fem in those labels referring to "man-spectrum" gender IDENTITY and "woman-spectrum" gender IDENTITY?

So this would mean maybe transfem: trans woman, any nonbinary or genderqueer person who relates slightly more to feeling the gender of woman, this would include trans butch women, and nonbinary people with beards etc who present visually very masculine but identify slightly more with women

Transmasc: trans man, nonbinary or genderqueer person who relates more slightly to the gender of man. This would include feminine trans men who wear dresses and makeup, include nonbinary people who Present visually very feminine but identify slightly more with men

OR is the masc and fem relating to gender PRESENTATION? Which would mean the terms include any trans person of any gender identity, who mainly presents masculine or mainly presents feminine

Transfem: trans women who are feminine presenting, trans men who are feminine presenting, nonbinary people who are more feminine presenting visually (feminine presenting as in clothing, hairstyles, hobbies etc that generally are interpreted by others as feminine)

Transmasc: trans men who are masculine presenting, trans women who are masculine presenting, nonbinary people who are more masculine presenting visually

Can you see where im getting confused? Depending on if masc and fem are refering to gender identity Or presentation, a trans butch woman is transmasc or transfem. So would a trans butch woman be transfem for transitioning to a woman physically, or transmasc for physically presenting masculinely and being trans. Would a nonbinary person who medically transitioned taking testosterone who wears dresses and makeup be a transmasc (for being a trans man) or transfem for being a trans person who presents feminine fashion choices. And im assuming the labels dont include nonbinary people that dont really lean one way or the other but like... if a nonbinary person is included in the terms is it based on the gender they more closely identify to on the spectrum (which for some of us is None, is multiple, is gender identities not within man or woman), or in the terms it is based on their visual presentation (which again! Nonbinary people can be androgynous, can embrace masculinity and femininity, can embrace one more than the other, can present our selves in ways meant to exclude those categorizations).

Tldr: is the masc and fem in transfem and transmasc refering to gender Identity or gender Presentation?

(And i suppose part of my confusion is like. Unfortunately in my social media experience over the last 10 years i saw the rise of "are you afab or amab" which screamed unpleasant unnecessary attempts to drag us back to "but what were u before transition" bullshit, and then recently in the "girl dinner" "boys are academia girls are shopping" and the lgbt community similar memes "lesbians are cottagecore gay men are clubbing" "transmen are so bob the builder transwomen are so my little pony" its giving Gender Expectations. Its giving: old school traditional limiting gender requirements on people if they want to conform to traditionalist norms. Its giving girls are stupid and soft abd emotional and boys are strong and smart and analytical - which isnt true by the way, you can be any traits regardless of gender identity you are. Ive been seeing a lot of "transmascs are army clips" "transfem are delicate jewelry" memes lately and its just like... aside from the fact im already sick of reinforcing gender stereotypes in a broad way. The memes are also confusing me because im like okay so is this implying trans men MUST be masculine, and transwomen MUST be feminine? Cause if its about gender identity, then that sure feels like thats the implication. I dont necessarily think the actual labels imply that necessarily, but i do think the memes of this nature just like ALL the widespread gender-stereotype memes imply some shit about expectations i do not like seeing reinforced as much as it goes around)