#if that makes sense. if anything i like morgase more here than i do in the show (granted the show brought her in VERY differently)

[nicolos]

also completely unrelated to that I just got back to listening to the audiobook and....i had no idea elayne her brothers morgase and elaida were introduced so early. lowkey reading (well. hearing) this im now going oh so elaidas a villain villain huh

[butterflydm]

Overthinking the leaked casting for s3

wotseries.com posted another (rumored) casting for s3 a couple of weeks ago and it prompted me to go through all our known casting so far and (probably) do some overthinking (plus, the last time I Did Speculation, we got some new info very soon afterwards, so maybe that will happen again, lol):

Our new casting spoiler is Ann Ogbomo, a British actress who was part of the South Africa filming cast (which was used for both Rhuidean and Tanchico, I believe). So she could be Aiel, or one of the flashback characters, or a character in Tanchico.

She seems too old to be Tuon (otoh, Tuon might get aged up and sorta combined with Tylin in the sense of being an ~older woman~ for Mat? The books never really did anything interesting with Tuon looking younger than she was, and her being older would make her more experienced as a sul'dam), but could possibly be Egeanin or another Black Ajah Sister in Tanchico.

Other 'recent' (since the last time I posted about it) castings are Cameron Jack, Fredrik Wagner, and Michael Lindall. We don't really know anything about what Fredrik might have filmed but it looked like Michael filmed on the Two Rivers set. Cameron Jack is an actor who looks to have potentially filmed during both the Czech Republic and the South African stints of filming.

We got our first official casting of a Sea Folk character in Carmela Bonomi as Jorin din Jubai (who has a good rapport with Elayne during their time together in the books, and is the reason that Elayne figures out that the Windfinders can channel). Given the director she worked with, it sounds like she's in 3x5 and/or 3x6 -- if we meet the Sea Folk in 3x5 and then leave with them from Tanchico in 3x6, this backs up the idea that maybe our Tanchico kiddos will reunite with Rand's side of the storyline in 3x7 & 3x8 (maybe in Tear). My current speculation of "2 episodes together; 4 episodes in the Waste/Tanchico; 2 episodes together" still sounds like it could be valid (except for Perrin, of course, who would still be in the Two Rivers at the end of the season), and gives Rand & Elayne and Lan & Nynaeve screen-time to spend together to build their relationships.

We also learned about Olivia Popica as Jeanine. She gets added to Liandrin's group of Black Ajah Sisters who are likely going to break out of the White Tower in ep1 (probably killing at least one Sister in the process) and then head to Tanchico to be part of Elayne & Nynaeve's storyline.

Total Black Ajah Sisters that will Probably go to Tanchico: Liandrin, Jeaine, Ispan, and Joiya. If Moghedien is also in Tanchico, I wonder if that's going to be the extent of our Black Ajah Sisters -- it probably would be good if the number of known BA Sisters didn't outnumber the number of known non-BA Sisters!

Other leaks that wotseries.com has mentioned before:

For Andor: Morgase (Olivia Williams), Elaida (Shohreh Aghdashloo), Galad (Callum Kerr) -- we will almost certain also have Gawyn here, since s2 confirmed his existence in the world of the show, but no casting leak yet. Shiaine (Raksha Hoost) might fit in here as well, though she might also be a Secret Character, since her identity gets taken over by a Darkfriend at some point, iirc.

We also have a listing for someone for Jaq Lounalt (Rob McLoughlin), who works for Arymilla in the latter books but might work for Jaichim Carridan (Jared Doreck) in the earlier ones? He's a Darkfriend, at any rate. Might appear in a couple of potential places. Carridan is in Tanchico working with Liandrin & co in TSR, so they might both be there.

For 2R/Perrin: Faile (Isabella Bucceri), Jac al'Seen (Paul A Maynard), and Marin al'Vere's actress is now Rina Mahoney.

For Aiel/Rand: Maigran, da'shain Aiel (Tereza Duskova), Latra, older version (Ania Marson), Solina, Aes Sedai during the Breaking (Thandi Sebe) - these all seem likely to feature in the glass columns sequence.

For the White Tower: Lelaine (Rebecca Root)

We also got a leak that an actor named Robert Strange shot for the show and this is interesting because he's a creature actor and has played several non-human characters in his career (that said, he is also very tall, and so might be an Aiel). But thanks to @markantonys for noticing that he's mainly a creature actor, because otherwise I would have fixated on his height and assumed Aiel! But given that he does act as a lot of creatures, I feel like he's a strong candidate for a Finn.

Then we have a bunch of leaks that aren't attached to a particular role:

Diêm Camille (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Nuno Lopes (I've seen spec that he's one of the Forsaken)

Luke Fetherston  (seen spec that he's Luc)

Nukâka Coster-Waldau (I suspect an Aes Sedai)

Björn Landberg (6'6" - maybe Aiel? taller than Josha)

Synnøve Macody Lund (6' - maybe Aiel?)

Clare Dunne (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Salóme Gunnarsdóttir (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Clare-Hope Ashitey (has been nominated for several acting awards)

And other potential cast who are more tenuously suspected:

Iman Marson (looks young, maybe 2R character?)

Ian Atwiine (also pretty young; maybe 2R character?)

Ferdinand McKay (very little info)

Kiren Kebaili-Dwyer (6' - maybe Aiel? maybe 2R)

Diana Dulinkova (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Natasha Culzac (6'1" freckled redhead - Aiel?)

Lots of potential new characters. Nothing that I've seen disproves my most recent speculation about s3, though that can change quickly.

[abookalypse]

Lord of Chaos (Wheel of Time, #6) by Robert Jordan

Warning: This “review” contains major spoilers and major rant. If you’re queer, feel free to read on, I want to know what you think. If you’re straight, read at your own risk.

Rating: 8.9/10

I have way too many things to say. But let’s start off with

Nynaeve and Elayne

I mean, is there anything else to say other than they’re fucking awesome? I loved these two in the previous book, with Tanchico and Moghedien, with Birgitte and Logain. I loved every part of it. 

And now, with Elayne having figured out how to make an a’dam and sul’dam, and Nynaeve having Healed Suian and Leane, I love them even more. Nynaeve remains to be my favorite character in this series so far. She's unbelievably strong but she's also stupidly stubborn and she acts so childish all the time. She's so afraid of everything. There's so many things I want to change about her and yet it feels proper that she stays exactly the way she is (at least for now). I can’t wait for her to finally get rid of her block (if ever).

And yes, I headcanon her as queer, because who gets flustered around women like that all the time? Queer women, that’s who. (Also because I just think Birgitte and Nynaeve have great chemistry, especially after Birgitte decided she’d tease Nynaeve every chance she gets after the events from the last book.)

I think the only reason I don’t like Elayne as well as I do Nynaeve is because she thinks about Rand all the time. I mean, I know Nynaeve thinks about Lan, too, but I could make more sense of that because they did spend some time together, from the Two Rivers all the way to Tar Valon. But with Elayne and Rand, it’s a bit more frustrating because I really don’t remember any moment between the two that coded as romantic. Rand and Aviendha made more sense, and after reading this book, Rand and Min as well. 

Anyway, I also see Elayne as queer, mainly because of Aviendha (and sometimes Birgitte, but I acknowledge that it was mentioned in the book that Elayne is like a little sister to Birgitte; it sucks, thank you very much).

Elayne and Nynaeve is my favorite duo.

Alanna and Rand

I’m not gonna lie, I chortled a little when I got to the moment where Alanna bonded Rand. But now that I know that that was considered rape (and it does make sense for it to be considered rape), I feel sort of bad. I guess rape really is a power thing more than a sex thing. 

I actually kind of want to see an apology from Alanna now, even though I don’t really sympathize with Rand at all about anything ever. And while my first reaction to the bonding was well Alanna’s going to die soon I guess, towards the end I was more like I hope Alanna apologizes and maybe Rand can be her Warder for a long time. But then I guess Elayne wants Rand as her Warder still.

Morgase

I had high expectations for Morgase in the previous book, so I guess I was kind of disappointed to see how it went with her plan. It would be interesting to see how things go from here.

That’s really all I have to say about her, but I still gave her a special section to indicate that I really, really expected more from this story line. I’m looking forward to see Morgase’s queen qualities. 

Egwene

I’m so proud of Egwene for some reason. She really came out of that Wise Ones training stronger and braver than ever. I guess her progress wasn’t as noticeable until she was actually around non-Aiel people again.

I was kind of worried about Egwene being Amyrlin, because I thought she’d be used more like a puppet more than anything, but I underestimated her. I mean, I guess Suian could still use her as a puppet, seeing as Suian still wants some power but she’s currently a lot weaker than she was before being stilled, but I’m just... so, so proud of Egwene.

(As I was reading this book, I actually thought Nynaeve would be Amyrlin someday. I could honestly see Nynaeve as a younger, less mature version of Suian. They both have bad temper, and Suian can be really stubborn as well.)

But also, can we talk about that Amyrlin Seat ritual? Like with the Aes Sedai showing their boobs as proof that they’re women? I mean, sounds pretty transphobic to me, but then I guess trans people do not exist in this book (I thought Aran’gar/Halima could be trans, but it’s equally as likely that Aran’gar is really just a man using saidin to disguise as a woman). The whole ordeal still seems pretty yikes though. I did not like it one bit. I hope they don’t put that on the show. They honestly could do without it.

Perrin and Faile

Perrin was my first favorite character from this book. I just think it’s cool that he can talk to wolves. And the whole Two Rivers against Trollocs thing was awesome too. He did fall flat in this book though. He’s almost always talking about Faile, which I get, because I also love women, but it’s super tiring after a while. 

As for Faile, I didn’t expect her to be so... Perrin-crazy. When she was first introduced in the story, I kind of expected her to be this awesome warrior lady who will fight alongside men in battle, and I guess to some extent she is that, albeit a little toned down. It’s perfectly okay for her to be all about Perrin and their marriage, I have nothing against that, but also I just wish she was more than that, you know? (Also, Maidens teaching Faile handtalk? Interesting.)

Min

Similar to Faile, I also expected Min to be this badass warrior lady (yes, I am obsessed with badass ladies who can wield swords or knives or spears). And, again, it’s perfectly okay that she is not, but I want more than that, okay?

Min’s sole role in this book was to get to Rand and show him she loves him and tell him three women will love him and that the three women will be okay with it (and each other) eventually. And also help him through her visions, of course. Min was a little underwhelming in this book (but I admit she’s never actually been a person of interest in this story, I just thought that she would be. I guess I will be expecting less from here on out).

What I’m interested to see, however, is Min’s little relationship between Aiel Wise Ones. They seem to have taken a liking to her.

Others

Yeah, all the others are not getting a special section. Mat was alright, still stubborn as ever. The whole ‘Elayne goading Mat so he could allow her to study his little amulet’ was funny. Thom and Juilin, not very present throughout the book. Thom and Elayne’s relationship is still weird, very un-Elayne-like. 

Maidens are still awesome (like I said, women with spears).

I guess that’s all? The ending was overwhelming, for sure. The first nine Aes Sedai to kneel to Rand al’Thor. This ‘Daughter of the Nine Moons’ thing. Aran’gar letting Moghedien go. Egwene letting Logain escape. A Darkfriend (or one of Moghedien’s little followers) in Ebou Dar following Elayne and Nynaeve around?

Looking forward to reading the next book.

[ivanaskye]

WoT Reactions: Book 13, Towers of Midnight

Ohhh god oh god. This was the second to last book. I just fiinished the second to last book. Am I ready for the end of this? NOT AT ALL. Will I be able to uhh ‘do things other than frantically read to the end’ over the next few days? Probably not. Oh god. I’ve been reading this series the entire time I’ve lived in this apartment. I read so fast that I have probably never spent this long reading ANYTHING. I can’t handle this I’m so worried for what’s going to happen and how do I even say goodbye to these characters—

(Coughs.) Well, anyways. On with it.

[[MORE]]

Aviendha

She only had like three chapters in this book but I’m starting with her anyway because those chapters have me Shook

Her visions of the future? More viscerally horrifying than most horror

Oh god

It can’t happen that way. It can’t. The Seanchan can’t win. No. Fuck-

Thankfully Aviendha will be doing her best to prevent it now. Godspeed.

Rand

I’m... not sure I’ve ever seen a character more obviously and intensely Attain Enlightenment

Actually he may just about have the most satisfying character arc I’ve ever read

His memories of his past life are his now, he is everything he is, he is whole

I’m losing it guys this series is too much

Perrin

This is a very Perrin-heavy book, and he’s finally getting himself together

Tbh is everyone gonna be enlightened at the end of this thing

He’s... a good person. He made it folks

Also accidentally re invented the art of making Power-enhanced weapons lol

MADE FRIENDS W A WHITECLOAK

Imagine, a sense of honor that isn’t dangerously rigid. An honor from inside of himself and also a commitment to not putting it ahead of the whole entire world

This series is wrecking me

My DREAMS have been exclusively wheel of time for like the past three nights

I’m losing it guys

Anyway-

He knows how to balance wolf and man, now- how to accept everything he is

Egwene

She did a lot last book, so she does less this book

“Less” still meaning destroying an entire Forsaken uh

She’s also bonded Gawyn now, who had a character arc this book of Discovering How Not To Be An Idiot

She’s wrong about the seals, though. Rand almost certainly does have to do it.

Also her brief meeting with Rand? After they haven’t seen each other since uh uh uh I don’t even know??? That was good

Morgase

Shook by overhearing that Gaebril was a forsaken

And then by meeting her stepson Galad

Thus revealing who she is

And now she’s reunited with all her kids yay

Mat

FINALLY rescues Moiraine

But does not open Verin’s letter

Which turns out to be a bad idea because uhhhh that letter would have told him how to prevent Caemlyn from being completely under attack uh! Uh!!!

Moiraine

Mat’s right- she does feel legendary now, after such a long absence that cast such an incredible shadow

She might end up part of handling Callandor hmmm

Also sudden relationship with Thom which is.... uh...... one of the weirder Sudden Hetero Adventures of the series

Lan

Successfully coerced into not being Completely suicidal. Amazing.

Elayne

While You Were Becoming Enlightened, I Secured Cairhien

Also like almost dies after a botched interrogstion involving disguising herself as a Forsaken

Lanfear

Near confirmation in the epilogue that she indeed is not completely evil

We’ll see where this goes

Graendal

Surprise! Wasn’t dead

(You’re walking in the woods, Graendal surprise, actual Forsaken Graendal-)

However she has now failed one too many times soooo her higher ups are gonna... uh... it’s gonna be bad

Other news in the forsaken

Moridin (Ishamael) has control over Moghedien and Lanfear, as we know

Possibly also Graendal now

Graendal killed Aran’gar

The other ‘gar (I forget his exact name) is still out there somwhere I think

Demandred is very much out there, SOMEWHERE, with some kind of army

Semirhage is very dead, Mesaana is arguably worse than dead

And we still don’t fully understand what it really means that Moridin has access to the True Power (read: the power of the dark one)

And the Last Battle is next book and from the table of contents it looks to be 200 pages and-

(Cutting off here before I dissolve into more wordless screaming)

[cannoli-reader]

in your opinion what were sandersons worst mishandlings in the last 3 books?

There were different issues with Sanderson’s writing. Some of which are personal dislikes of mine, others have to do with his style or talents being unsuited to the series, and some are just flat out things he did wrong. I’ll go into considerable detail under the cut.

Poor match of writing style and skills to the series

Sanderson lays everything out there, and he uses dialogue to convey information to the reader, in the same way that movies and TV shows do. Wheel of Time is about secrets and knowledge, and people knowing different things, so they act in conflict, because their perceptions are different. This is undermined by a story where everyone is telling each other everything, even their innermost thoughts.  Especially when those thoughts don’t make sense for the characters to say out loud based on what we have seen of them for the last eleven books.

From what I understand, Sanderson’s strength as a genre author is in his world-building, and his clever use of magic systems.  These are not strengths needed for this project, in which the world-building was done already, and most of the ins and outs of the One Power and other preternatural phenomena were already established. Even when Sanderson tried to carve out a space to use his skills, it backfired, with the inflation of the role of Androl, and things like his limit-breaking gateway Talent. That’s not how Talents work. It seems like a derivation of the one Kinswoman who could shield far above what her strength seemed to warrant, but that was due to centuries of practice. There is no reason why Androl can suddenly make gateways much larger than other people using even more of the Power, which is established as the limiting factor on gateway size.  

Inadequate comprehension of the ideas and ethos of Wheel of Time

Sanderson was writing fan service.  To a certain extent, that was conscious and deliberate, an act of love to his fellow fans, and the series. And not to get all snobby here, but he generally wrote to gratify the lowest common denominator of fans. His focus was on feats of arms and channeling and leadership, but he was not so much interested in the characteristics and qualities that informed and were informed by, those things.

When Sanderson divided the story into three books, he showed by his choices that he prioritized events and spectacles over themes and coherence. A major theme was that everyone was all in it together, that while they might be separated by distance, they were all being woven into the same Pattern and their actions were intertwined.  Sanderson, instead, decided that since Rand & Mat & Perrin did not occupy the same real estate for the beginning of the story, there’s no need for them to be in the same books. 

Poor command of the worldbuilding and details

This really destroyed my immersion.  Sometimes Sanderson made up all new things to serve a purpose in his story, that didn’t seem anything like what was normal for WoT, like new characters who appeared with names that did not fit their supposed country of origin, and who turned out to be Wheel of Time fans & webmasters he met at conventions and such. Which is fine for the few dozen fans who met him and recognize each others’ cameo, and less fine for the millions of other readers, while Jordan’s impressive stable of bit players, extras and supporting cast members fell into neglect. 

There would be mistakes like an Aielman refering to his homeland as the Waste, or the sudden drop in IQ of the whole White Ajah, going from highly trained masters of logic and philosophers, to stoned freshman having their minds blown by half-assed syllogisms. Or the head of the Yellow Ajah suddenly reinventing the mentality of the Ajah in a way that directly contradicts everything we’ve been shown about the Yellows. Or the Warder bonds suddenly not working the same way, to the degree that a bonded couple can surprise one another by walking in on them unexpectedly or wonder how the other is feeling when they are in the same building. 

Sanderson’s idea of servicing Siuan’s background was randomly sticking the word fish on the end of nouns in her dialogue, whether it made sense or not. The Aiel suddenly started talking like fantasy barbarians, with their stilted, simple diction and preoccupation with combat skills and honor. The Aiel are good with weapons, but they have other interests.  When the situation does not call for military skills or combat, they don’t obsess over weapons or fighting. They talk about the opposite sex, they gamble, drink, joke, play pranks, read, pay attention to the social dynamics of other cultures. Aviendha is barely recognizable as the same person, and that’s before you realize that Sanderson gave her an extended conversation to learn something that she already knew eight books before. 

If he wants us to care about an Asha’man suffering belated manifestations of the taint, maybe use one of the Asha’man Jordan created and we’ve come to know up until now, instead of some new guy Sanderson just made up with a weird name like “Naeff” that just contribtues to the all-round immersion-breaking. 

The biggest mistake: Breaking up the books

This is related in some ways to the above issues. Part of it has to do with the ways that Sanderson failed to grasp aspects of the series and part with Sanderson’s writing style. Robert Jordan, for all that he had a reputation for excessive descriptive detail, was also very economical with his words.  He conveyed a lot with his descriptions.  Sanderson needed many more words to say the same things.  The story planned out for the portion of the series Sanderson wrote was intended to be in a single book, though Jordan acknowledged it was likely to be significantly larger than the others. 

That means something, because for all the serialized nature of the latter half of the series, there is still a thematic unity to those books.  That means that Jordan’s plan was for the events in Arad Domon, with Mat and the Band, with Perrin and the Whitecloaks, Egwene in the Tower and the lead-up to Merrilor and Tarmon Gaidon, were all supposed to be part of the same story, not just the same general story as the farmboys fleeing Trolloc raids or travels among the Aiel, but all connected together to express the same idea. 

In my opinion, the best way to break up that final book, if Sanderson could not keep it contained in one physical medium, would be in a serialized fashion, one book under two or three separate volumes, with the pace of the story encompassing the whole thing, instead of having three separate beginnings, escalations of conflicts, climaxes and endings.  If it had to be broken into three separate novels in structure as well as format, then the division should have been by time, rather than characters.  

Throughout Jordan’s books, the point is reiterated that the whole story is all of a piece, that the main characters are part of the same Pattern, and their seperate efforts all contribute to the overall struggle. Ultimately, Rand’s mission of unifying humanity to fight the Shadow was not getting them to all take orders from the same source, but to get them all agreed and committed to the same goal. From the time they first split up for extended arcs, with Loial saying “here or there, it is all the same fight” to Moiraine’s appearance at Merrilor, that has been a consistent notion.  And when you treat Rand’s and Nynaeve’s and Egwene’s stories as having so little to do with Mat’s or Perrin’s or Elayne’s, that they don’t even go under the same book cover, you are totally undermining that. 

And if you really must separate the major character arcs into different books, the order in which Sanderson released them was absolutely wrong.  He gave the two biggest conflicts the first book, to either score a quick win to get the readers on board with the new writing, or in fan service, giving fans the stories they were most impatient to see.  

So Rand, the critical figure, whose indispensibility was key to Jordan’s vision of the series, hits his nadir halfway through the first book of the trilogy, which is 1/6th of the way through the overall finale. He reaches his apotheosis, and resolves his major personal struggle with two thirds of the finale left to go!  Rand finds his heart again, Egwene wins her fight for the Tower, and achieves full power, with a dramatic set piece battle and then we go to Mat and Elayne comically bickering about cannons and taking out a handful of Darkfriends and a single Shadowspawn before plunging abruptly into the rescue of Moiraine. Perrin engages in a legalistic conflict with Galad over ridiculous minutiae, given that they are now in the penultimate book in the series and the world is visibly falling apart around them.  That battle had less danger and lower stakes than the much maligned Faile-Malden storyline, but it was supposed to be Perrin’s penultimate leadership crisis?  All the attempts to keep the stakes high in Towers of Midnight are completely undermined by the knowledge that the struggles Rand is going through at the same time will have a happy ending. Where is the drama in finding out after the fact that Perrin was buffering Rand from Tel’Aran’Rhiod on Dragonmount? How are we supposed to be concerned about Perrin’s efforts when we already know the exact outcome?  Knowing that Dragonmount has not happened during the early events of ToM does not change the way we see the conflicts playing out concurrently with Rand’s descent into darkness, because we know the happy resolution is coming.  We know Tam is going to survive his adventures with Perrin and be in a position to tell Rand, with no discernable dissembling, that Perrin is going to have everything in hand, and Morgase’s secret identity issue will be happily resolved. 

Even the book titles are stupid.  “The Gathering Storm”? Setting aside how incredibly trite that title is, what the heck has been going on all this time before that book?  And the storm is only gathering now?  Is Rand’s happy-ending-apotheosis still part of the gathering of the storm, or the beginning of the storm? What about the White Tower being unified & better than ever?  Does that mean Mat inventing cannons and Perrin arguing with, and then rescuing Whitecloaks are “the storm”?  The storm has been gathering for the length of the series. “Towers of Midnight” means nothing, and people still argue about what it means, since it refers to a location on the other side of the world from the events in the books.  By contrast, the title Jordan selected, “A Memory of Light” could be both symbolic of the whole, with the Shadow so strong that Light is just a memory, and a specific reference to Rand’s finding himself. Except that was the climax of a storm gathering.