#if rhaegar haters have no haters then i am dead

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i still cannot believe that people consider having lovers outside of a political marriage as cheating

a lot can be discussed about how raging misogyny and the patriarchy in westeros has led to unequal standards for women to uphold and suffer from

as highborn women are not allowed the same sexual freedom that highborn men get to experience, and even if these women do have relationships outside of their marriages, they are usually scorned and shunned by society for daring to practice sexual autonomy

it’s unfair, i am very aware of this fact

(that’s why i’ll never understand team green stans)

but george has never ever condemned his characters for finding and experiencing love outside of doing their duty.

never.

we’re not unfeeling machines that lack emotions. we’re humans who are, more often than not, led by our hearts. and grrm does a phenomenal job when creating characters, as they truly feel human.

so yeah, it’s a bit disappointing that people dumb down what is clearly a very complex situation to ��cheating” (btw george himself calls rhaegar and elias relationship complex and he’s never implied that they loved each other in a romantic sense).

to reiterate, i am well aware that highborn women and men are held to different standards, however, if you have a problem with characters working through, around, and sometimes failing to overcome the social structures that cause their suffering, then you must have a major issue with george’s exploration of the human heart in conflict with itself.

george’s characters aren’t robots and that’s what makes them interesting. they do things for very human reasons. they’re biased. they’re traumatized. they’re conflicted. but they’re still reaching for a better tomorrow and they’re still trying to find happiness.

so i’ll never consider rhaegar and lyannas relationship as cheating, or something unsightly that should be scorned. for they simply dared to find and grasp love in a society that would rather shackle them to unhappy marriages, which is very commendable.

oh… and do you know what george does criticize?

political marriages lol

he makes it clear that selling women off as broodmares and forcing men into marriages they don’t want is a recipe for disaster.

of course the eventual fallouts of these relationships is super interesting to read about, but you should never ever support the systems in place and the societies that benefit from pushing people/characters into these incredibly unhealthy relationships

so while i find it interesting to read about characters navigating these relationships, i’ll always be the first person to condemn these societies for forcing this fate onto them. i’ll also always be the first person to root for characters who do their best to find happiness outside of their political/arranged marriage

sorry that i don’t condemn a character for finding love outside of a loveless marriage

instead of getting angry at rhaegar and lyanna and being very nonsensical in the main tags about it, how about you turn that anger onto the patriarchy, which is rooted in every single institution and family in westeros, the patriarchy that refuses to allow women to have the same amount of sexual autonomy as men?

(this is why i despise team green :))

[atopvisenyashill]

I'm going to say something really controversial as a Lyanna stan and Rhaegar hater: my problem with Rhaelya is not the age difference. Yes, Rhaegar was an adult and Lyanna was not. Even by Westerosi standards. I am not saying people can't get pissed about that. But personally, my issue with Rhaegar stems for the fact that Rhaegar was already married, so he could not offer her marriage, unless he wanted to commit polygamy, which is a sin in the eyes of both the Old God's and the new. If Lyanna had lived, she would be relegated to the role of mistress at best. I mean, it's not Elia is just going to drop dead. For all the talk of her supposed frail health, she survived childbirth twice.

Rhaegar also didn't do whatever he did with Lyanna in public. He instead took her away from her home, family, friends, the court, and locked her in his tower to die birthing his prophecy child.

Even if Elia died, and he married Lyanna, it's not like her son could be king over Elia's without inciting civil war. And even if Elia and her children too died, I don't think the public would take kindly to all this convenience of royal deaths.

(I want to state here that i do not want Elia or her kids dead. What happened to her and them in asoiaf is a great tragedy.)

And what about the fact that his father murdered her father and brother? And demanded her other brother's head? And Ned barely survived being murdered by the kingsguatd acting on Rhaegar's order?

Safe to say, age is not the only thing standing between a Rhaegar x Lyanna love story.

Okay anon, so the thing is....all those issues....they stem from the age gap!

He's already married because he's a lot older than her. He has the political power to convince the Kingsguard to help him kidnap her because he's old enough to be a political player in a real way (whereas a 14 year old would be less so - look at Joffrey!). He isble to convince her to go on this hare brained plan that gets her entire family killed because he's older than her and more mature. This is what I mean by "age informs the dynamic." The reason Rhaegar can do all this stuff is because he has more power, more privilege, and more life experience than Lyanna, because he is older.

All of those things are very valid reasons and they're things I rail against a lot - there's just no way to handle Lyanna that doesn't make her and Jon look bad at court with the way he goes about things, he completely sets them up to fail, then potentially keeps her trapped in the tower while he wages a war his father helped escalate by murdering her brother. There's a lot of sutff that leads me to believe that Rhaegar is concealing a lot and Lyanna is not as willing as she might have been initially, yes, but a lot of why their dynamic is so off is because of the age. If Lyanna was older, more sure of herself, of her place in the world, had more agency, more life experience to let her know that what he is saying is not adding up to protection for her, this dynamic would not exist the way it does. It exists this way because Rhaegar leverages his maturity and experience over her, and uses her immaturity against her.

[horizon-verizon]

Daenerys is foreshadowed to have a third child (NOT WITH FUCK ASS JON, STAY AWAY FROM HER), as per her child of three prophecy. Daenerys’ antis can seethe about that as much as they like, and write shallow and flowery purple prose metas about House Targaryen being a snake eating its own tail, but Daenerys will have a child.

I want her to have a girl named FOR her mother Rhaella (Daenerys always needed a mother so I’m hoping she gets to have a daughter) and I think the child she miscarried in ADWD was a girl, but I do think she’ll end up having a boy. She already has two sons named after Rhaegar (Rhaego and Rhaegal), so per rule of three, she’ll probably have a third son named after him.

She is already a mother (to her dragons, her people, the slaves she freed), being a mother is a core aspect of her identity. Those people (you know, a very specific brand of hater that pretend to stan Daenerys but want her to sacrifice herself for the greater good and don’t want her to have biological children) use liberal feminist talking points to justify their desire to see an orphan teenage girl miserable, dead and alone. Mind you, they’d never argue that being a mother undermines Visenya, Catelyn, Cersei, Elia, Helaena, Alicent, or Lyanna, and most of them believes that Sansa will have children.

Ah, I see why now that some people speculate over specific details like the probability of her kids' names now--bc others argue that her becoming a mother at all would inherently both negate the anti-authority/feudal "barbarism"/pre-facism that somehow Dany/Targs embody in their minds AND that it'd undermine her femme-can-be-powerful vision.

That is so funny, bc if you actually believed a woman can be powerful and enjoy what she willingly and freely decides to do for building a family of her own, you would not flagrantly argue that, basically, her eggs would inevitably breed a "mad" scion NOR try to argue that a woman--again, when she has the power and resources to independently raise/protect children herself or with trusted people around her, nearly uninterrupted by a *shudder* a man (I myself have thought abt how I'd mother and this was the most alluring prospect...IF I ever have kids in this economy...could be projecting but idts bc for Dany is this has been shown to be just....more than ideal, necessary kinda?)--inevitably loses her some of, if not moat/all, agency when she births children of her own. Forgetting--getting back to the previous dashed info--that with Dany, this wouldn't be even in the same breath of the context that those arguers imagine and have observed for non-regnant women.

It is interesting how they never argued for how Visenya, etc. aren't "undermined"...probably bc they see how it is officially or know in the inherited social knowledge of Westerso that Aegon I was THE ruler while his sisters were "just" consorts. Same for the rest, except maybe Sansa whom they'd seem (I am assuming, I haven't seen anything abt them arguing for Sansa's motherhood) to pose as a lady regnant, esp after the damage of GoT.

[thousandeyesand-one]

S08E01

Ok so here's where D&D suck. They try to create an "open to interpretation" kind of scenario with most female characters, arya is definitely there but nobody is given a hard time over it more than Daenerys. They never explain or make her explain the why's & how's, because they want daenerys to be the "bad ass dragon queen whose impulse has given the show it's many epic cinematic moments"

GRRM does something quite similar too. He writes characters as faulted as human beings are supposed to be, he likes to conflict a reader's mind in the most tiring way possible. He said afterall he believes Faulkner's words "The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself".

He makes his character do an action/say some words that more or likely they HAD to. But then he introduces the consequences of the said action/words while at the same time he gives a reason & understanding of why such a hard decision was made/tough words were used. GRRM creates conflict in such a way that it is upto YOU. The Reader, to decide for themselves what they make of the situation. Which ultimately means it's only one's assumption to choose to believe the character was wrong because you choose to ignore the reason behind their action/words. While the one's who support the character chooses to accept the character not only with the reason behind the action/words but also with the consequences of it.

Your "hate" towards daenerys is just YOUR assumption, your villainization of daenerys is just YOUR assumption, your degradation of daenerys's efforts & experiences is just YOUR assumption. Not the actual story definitely not the author's intent.

The scene where daenerys takes the unsullied is the most bad-ass, jaw dropping & inspiring scene centered on a female character ever. When it dropped I remember GA being taken by how "bad-ass" she is. But now I see haters using Astaphor as a "brutality" condoned by daenerys. All because the show never cared to reflect upon a deeper more sympathetic thought process behind doing what she did. While tge book reading haters like I said above choose to ignore her reason & only care about the consequences.

Tv Show: "we never really get this sense .. of her capacity for cruelty. They are surrounded by people who are terrible people but haven't done anything to her personally. It's interesting to me how the sphere of her empathy widens the sphere of her cruelty widens as well."

-Dan Weiss ( X )

Books:

"I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn't have done that. He wasn't just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can't protect themselves?"

"Some kings make themselves. Robert did."

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

– Daenerys III ASOS

The show never showed this side of daenerys's story GRRM is literally giving a reason behind what she is doing at Astaphor while in the future books you get the consequences of those actions, THAT'S HOW YOU CREATE AN INTERNAL CONFLICT IN A READER (&/or) VIEWER.

What D&D do with dany all the time is leave her reasons behind & only show her actions & the consequences. Which over time lead everyone to believe she is descending into some form of madness, that she is an entitled power hungry monarch & that she is actually being a villain! Ignoring the fact that D&D draw inspiration for the show from a book series whose author treats all of his characters in a conflicting manner. 

Something like that happened in s08e01. Am not talking about the s@nsa vs daenerys situation. I think it's a call back to Alaric Stark & Queen Alysanne Targaryen's relations. Alaric Stark was known to be cold & hard towards Queen Alysanne at first but eventually softened towards her in time being as he got to know her more. S@nsa stans don't need a reason to hate on daenerys so this storyline was like a gift to them to continue that petty hate.

No matter what their relationship prospers into I have to say s@nsa was being unnecessarily rude towards daenerys. Alaric Stark actually had a reason to be cold towards the Targaryens, his brother died defending the wall against a mutiny caused by some prisoners King Jaehaerys had sent to the wall. But there is nothing that daenerys did to harm the Starks?! S@nsa herself has no reason to hold a grudge towards daenerys or the Targaryens. The northern lords are being a bunch of ignorant fucks still dwelling on the politics of the past that which a "smart" person would overlook given the state of emergency they are in. Instead s@nsa is using that ignorance to incite more segregation in Winterfell. Knowing well that the wall was breached she is treating the dragons as a burden when girl! they are your best defence against the undead one that Night King controls. S@nsa might be smart but right now she is not acting smart!

Regarding the matter of food, I don't think s@nsa understands the level of danger that the oncoming army of the dead possesses against the living. Alaric Stark was judgemental of Queen Alysanne & the party that travelled with her because she wasn't necessarily there to defend Winterfell against anything, she was there on one of the many royal progression's that the king & queen did all over the kingdoms. But daenerys isn't here on some progress she is here to stand her armies beside the North men & Knights of the Vale in the fight. It is S@nsa's duty as the Lady of Winterfell to arrange for the food & other commodities for perhaps the greatest alliance northerners have.

I don't much tread into the doylism aspect of things but the way s@nsa said that she didn't account for the dothraki & the unsullied did she mean she was expecting Jon to die in the south? Because there was only two ways Jon's southern trip would go he might return with allies hence more mouths to feed or he might die. That sure don't sound all that smart of a deduction though!

When daenerys said "whatever they want" she defended her children reminds me of how everyone used to tell the direwolves don't belong inside the castle walls but out in the wild but the stark kids defended them anyways. Daenerys did the same thing too she defended her magical wild beasts who, just like the direwolves are dangerous & different.

Daenerys expecting respect from sansa isn't entitlement, Jon is S@nsa's king & daenerys is Jon's Queen. By that it is a certain decency to give daenerys that respect. In inside the episode video David nutter & Sophie say that s@nsa wants daenerys to know that this is HER home??! I mean daenerys doesn't want her home she wants your respect, she has a home it's called Dragonstone!

“No man has ever died from bending his knee,” her father had once told her.

“He who kneels may rise again, blade in hand. He who will not kneel stays dead, stiff legs and all.”

-the Kings Prize ADWD

I just can't wait until s@nsa softens upto daenerys like Alaric did towards Alysanne. So people can actually focus on other more important things in the storyline.

Then about the reaction Sam had when he learnt about his father & brother's death.. THAT WAS ABSURD. He clearly wasn't that sad when he learned of randyll's death but his brother's death affected him most. Which reminds me of a quote..

He wondered whether Dickon would shed a tear for his brother who died in the snow, somewhere off beyond the edge of the world. Why should he? A coward’s not worth weeping over.

-Samwell I, ASOS.

Do it now. Stop crying and fight, you baby. Fight, craven. It was his father he heard, it was Alliser Thorne, it was his brother Dickon and the boy Rast.

Craven, craven, craven. He giggled hysterically, wondering if they would make a wight of him, a huge fat white wight always tripping over its own dead feet.

Do it, Sam. Was that Jon, now? Jon was dead. You can do it, you can, just do it.

-Samwell I, ASOS.

Sam remembers his brother in the books with the likes of Ser Alliser Thorne & Rast. It is understandable that his heart might be broken to listen of his brothers death but to do what he did especially to the last remaining family of his mentor, Maester Aemon  Who treated him 1000x times better than both his father & brother.. Maester Aemon felt so passionately about Daenerys & he only trusted that information to Sam.

"No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must."

-Maester Aemon, Samwell IV, AFFC.

Daenerys is our hope. Tell them that, at the citadel. Make them listen. They must send her a Maester. Daenerys must be counseled, taught, protected."

-Maester Aemon, Samwell IV, AFFC.

Alleras stepped up next to sam. "Aemon would've gone to her if he had the strength. He wanted us to send a Maester to her, to counsel her & protect her & fetch her safely home." "Did he?" Archmaester marwyn shrugged. "Perhaps it's good that he died before he got to oldtown. Elsewise the grey sheep might have had to kill him, and that would have made the poor old dears wring with wrinkled hands." "Kill him?" Sam said, shocked. "Why?" "If I tell you they may kill you too" marwyn smiled a ghastly smile the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth.

-Samwell V, AFFC.

It is so awful that Sam has infact put the last two family members of Maester Aemon's blood against each other. He is treating Daenerys the way he treated Alliser Thorne when Sam realised if Ser Alliser becomes the Lord Commander his life would be hell so he literally uses Jon & raises him to be a Lord Commander in the hind sight to protect himself. When Jon actually (in the books) decides to fight for Winterfell & take stannis's offer.

Instead, he blamed Jon Snow and wondered when Jon’s heart had turned to stone. Once he asked Maester Aemon that very question, when Gilly was down at the canal fetching water for them. “When you raised him up to be the lord commander,” the old man answered.

-Maester Aemon, Samwell III, AFFC

“Dragons,” Aemon whispered. “The grief and glory of my House, they were.”

- Maester Aemon, Samwell III, AFFC

Not only was Sam's reaction a little over the top but it was wrong how he channeled it upon Jon as well. He ruined the most important revelation of Jon's life because of, again, himself. Jon also didn't seem to care about the fact that daenerys is related to her (lmao) but was more taken aback by Sam suggesting him treason against daenerys.

I do not want to play the oathbreaker, even for good reason.

- Jon VIII, ACOK.

Jon Snow flexed the fingers of his sword hand, remembering all he’d lost. Sam, you sweet fat fool, you played me a cruel jape when you made me lord commander. A lord commander has no friends.

-Jon X, ADWD.

"I had a frightening dream last night, m'lord," Dolorous Edd confessed. "You were my steward, fetching my food & cleaning up my leaving. I was Lord Commander, with never a moment's peace." Jon did not smile. "Your nightmare, my life."

-Jon VI, ADWD.

Daenerys: "We all enjoy what we're good at" Jon: "I don't!"

-GOT, s07e03.

Jon doesn't want to have power for the sake of power. Over & over again in the books & in the show he made it clear he did what he did to fight the Army of the Dead not for a crown.

Jon: "Do you think we can beat the Army of the Dead without her? I fought them sansa twice, you want to worry about who holds what title I am telling you it doesn't matter. Without her we don't stand a chance.. Do you have any Faith in me at all?

Sansa: you know I do.

Jon: she'll be a good queen, for all of us. She's not her father. 

Sansa: no, she's much prettier .... Did you bend the knee to save the North or because you love her?

-GOT s08e01

There are two reasons why anyone would bend the knee.

•Out of fear, fear of cruelty, collapse or death.

•Out of love & respect & trust.

Jon bent the knee to daenerys for the latter, that scene with sansa & Jon was cut off annoyingly leaving the argument hanging but there was more than just love, yes Love is there My god if this isn't what every jonerys stan had been screaming since s07 ended. But there was more than love, there was respect for letting him mine the dragonglass regardless of no existing alliance, there is also trust when daenerys actually not only let him go beyond the wall but also flew all the way there, solidifying the trust he placed in her to come to his aid without an alliance in place. 

Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the wall. A girl in grey on a dying horse, he thought. Coming here, to you. Arya. He turned back to the Red priestess. Jon could feel her warmth. She has power. The thought came unbidden, seizing him with iron teeth, but this was not a woman he cared to be indebted to, not even for his little sister.

-Jon IV, ADWD.

But instead he chose to be indebted to daenerys by asking for her help without giving her anything in return. Because he trusts her to be a good, reliable Queen & she won his trust.

Sam: "Don't you know?

Jon: know what?

Sam: Daenerys, she executed my father & brother. They were her prisoners.

Jon: ......

Sam: she didn't tell you

Jon: I'm so sorry. We need to end this war.

Sam: would you have done it?

Jon: I have executed men who disobeyed me.

Sam: you've also spared men thousands of Wildlings when they refused to kneel.

Jon: I wasn't a king.

Sam: but you were you've always been. Jon: I gave her my crown Sam. I've bent the knee am not King in the North anymore.

Sam: Am not talking about the king in the north am talking about the king of the bloody seven kingdoms.

.......

your mother was Lyanna Stark your father, your real father was Rhaegar Targaryen. You've never been a Bastard you are Aegon Targaryen true heir to the iron throne.

.............

You're the true king, Aegon Targaryen, sixth of his name, protector of the realm, all of it.

Jon: Daenerys is our Queen.

Sam: she shouldn't be.

Jon: it's treason.

Sam: it's the truth. You gave up your crown to save your people would she do the same?

She literally did the very thing in s07e06 when she left dragonstone with Drogon, Rhaegal & Viserion to rescue Jon.

Tyrion: "You cant win the throne if you're dead. You cant break the wheel if you're dead."

Daenerys: "So what would you have me do?"

Tyrion: Nothing. Sometimes nothing is the hardest thing to do. If you die we're all lost everyone, everything!"

Daenerys: "You told me to do nothing once before & i lostened to you ... am not doing nothing again."

There are moments in the story both in books & show where we do undeniably see daenerys put the people or her children ahead of her crown.

That morning she summoned her captains and commanders to the garden, rather than descending to the audience chamber. "Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver's Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on."

"You have brought freedom as well," Missandei pointed out.

"Freedom to starve?" asked Dany sharply. "Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?" Am I mad? Do I have the taint?

"A dragon," Ser Barristan said with certainty. "Meereen is not Westeros, Your Grace."

"But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?" He had no answer to that. Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. "My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I've freed all over again." She turned back to look at their faces. "I will not march."

"What will you do then, Khaleesi?" asked Rakharo.

"Stay," she said. "Rule. And be a queen."

– Daenerys VI, ASOS.

Not that she must or she needs to give up her crown for Jon or anyone so Sam can be convinced with her being a good queen. Fuck that! Sam is being impulsive here (something that daenerys is blamed of, turns out everyone does it) she has on multiple occasions put her people first. Sam hopefully learns it in time because his knows I don't want him to be the A-hole he acted like..

If she had been some ordinary woman, she would gladly have spent her whole life touching Daario, tracing his scars and making him tell her how he’d come by every one. I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me. Besides, kings who lost their crowns oft lost their heads as well, and she could see no reason why it would be any different for a queen.

-Daenerys VII, ADWD.

A queen belongs not to herself but to her people.

– Daenerys V, ADWD.

The red priests believed in two gods, she had heard, but two who were eternally at war. Dany liked that even less. She would not want to be eternally at war.

- Daenerys V, ASOS.

"We will have it all back someday, sweet sister," he would promise her. Sometimes his hands shook when he talked about it. "The jewels and the silks, Dragonstone and King's Landing, the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms, all they have taken from us, we will have it back." Viserys lived for that day. All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

- Daenerys I, AGOT.

She did take a dozen flasks of scented oils, the perfumes of her childhood; she had only to close her eyes and sniff them and she could see the big house with the red door once more.

- Daenerys VI, AGOT.

"He died for me." Dany clutched her lion pelt to her chest. Underneath, a sheer white linen tunic covered her to midthigh. She had been dreaming of a house with a red door when Missandei woke her. There had been no time to dress.

- Daenerys I, ADWD.

"Is it Daario? What's happened?" In her dream they had been man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. In her dream he had been kissing her all over—her mouth, her neck, her breasts.

-Daenerys II, ADWD.

Dany had never known a home. In Braavos, there had been a house with a red door, but that was all.

-Daenerys III, ADWD.

Soon Dany was as clean as she was ever going to be. She pushed herself to her feet, splashing softly. Water ran down her legs and beaded on her breasts. The sun was climbing up the sky, and her people would soon be gathering. She would rather have drifted in the fragrant pool all day, eating iced fruit off silver trays and dreaming of a house with a red door, but a queen belongs to her people, not to herself.

- Daenerys IX, ADWD.

Isn't it amazing how the very episode in which Sam raises the question "will she give up her crown?" is the very episode where daenerys said this 

She obviously didn't feel at home neither at Dragonstone nor at Winterfell. This romantic moment is the closest to a house with the red door this show has ever done.

Also notice how throughout the episode whenever Jon is speaking to others he refers to daenerys as Queen. But when he is alone with her by that waterfall he refers to her as "a southern girl". Jon loves the girl daenerys not "the floppy ears" of the dragon queen that she wears..

If she had been some ordinary woman, she would gladly have spent her whole life touching Daario, tracing his scars and making him tell her how he’d come by every one. I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me. Besides, kings who lost their crowns oft lost their heads as well, and she could see no reason why it would be any different for a queen.

-Daenerys VII, ADWD.

"So we pray. I want to plant my olive trees and see them fruit." Does it matter that Hizdahr's kisses do not please me? Peace will please me. Am I a queen or just a woman?

- Daenerys VII, ADWD.

So the point is neither does it make sense for Jon to turn against daenerys all of a sudden for something like a title that he himself just said doesn't matter to him. Given that the third episode is where the battle for dawn is supposed to take place. Iron throne is not on Jon's mind. Plus I don't think Daenerys will be anything but shocked, confused yet happy to find a family member, none other than the son of her elder brother whom she idolizes, she is in love with Jon as he is with her!

A crown should not sit easy on the head. One of her royal forebears had said that, once. Some Aegon, but which one? Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him.

-Daenerys I, ADWD.

Ser Davos is already planning a better solution to all this. A just woman & an honorable man to probably get married!

Now I need Sam to somehow learn more & more about who daenerys actually is.

[dachi-chan25]

Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 Recap Pt. 3

WARNINGS: SPOILERS; not a D@€n€r¥$ fan; Jonsa shipper.

————

8.- Back in Winterfell Lord Royce and Lord Glover are the North’s Mean Girls, talking shit about Jon to his back and regreating not naming Sansa QitN when they had the chance (OK as a Sansa fan I saw lot of my fellow fans were pissed that she got no credit whatsoever for retaking WF and that she should have been queen, I agreed that she deserved to get recognized but didn’t feel she wanted to be queen, but nevertheless it was good to see she has won her people’s respect after all she went through) Sansa thanks them but defends Jon’s claim in a very polite way. Arya watched all the scene, and she walks with Sansa to her chambers (Jon won that argument, good to know) that are her parents’s chambers while Sansa is like I warned Jon the North wouldn’t wait on him like Ghost (my shipper heart is pleased that they disscused this sort of things), Arya is clearly not happy about how Sansa managed things and Sansa being the observant girl she is immediately picks up on it and prompts Arya to speak her mind about what’s bothering her, because that’s what she did with Jon: she talked things through even if they didn’t agree on everything they were never afraid to speak clearly about it they loved and appreciated the other so much mere disagreements would never come between them. Arya is very different though and she is very harsh and unfair to Sansa,I understand her personality is different from Jon and Sansa, she is a more action type of person, she has taken revenge and now she is at home she can’t bear the thought of this people disrespecting her beloved big bro and her sister, the one she had a lot of friction with, just standing there and listening without screaming or hitting them, but Sansa is right she can’t do those things without repercussions, Arya is like there won’t be repercussions if you kill them (tell that to Robb) and Sansa (bless her soul) tries to explain the situation they are in, and how much Jon and the North need this people and that is much better working together than killing everyone (gosh now I really want Sansa to meet D) she gives Arya a reality check on how WF wasn’t just handed to them. Honestly Sansa Queen of everything 2kforever. Arya retorts in a very childlish way about how Sansa just wants to make sure people will accept her in case Jon dies, and Sansa is horrified that her sister would say such a thing (also I think she is horrified by the thought of Jon dying) and Arya keeps taunting her. No fuck I’m out of here, never wanted this Starkbowl stuff, didn’t wanted it with Jon don’t want it with Arya, why do the writers make her Sound like every Sansa hater ever???? Sansa does not deserve this (Dickon come back pls and sweep my baby off her feet in those amazing arms of yours) I understand Arya hasn’t still procesed Sansa’s changes and she loves Jon and hates to see people trash talking him but no sorry, Ned already had told her she and her sister needed each other even if they were so different, and Arya said she didn’t hated Sansa Back then, I just hope this nonsense is over quickly because I Love the Stark Sisters too much.

9.- So the magnificent plan of Tyrion starts with convincing Jaime to tell Cersei to grant the Suicide Squad an audience so they can show her the WW, and they will need to go to KL, Davos smuggles them and then goes off to find my boy Gendry.

My boy is Back on the blacksmith business, and Davos makes a joke about rowing (he is the daddiest dad of the 7 realms) and he is trying to explain their super amazing mission but Gendry is like dude idc I just wanna go away from this shit hole and fight some Lannisters on the way with my magical Baratheon Hammer like the one my daddy had.

#AtrueBaratheon.

Tyrion apparently convinced/payed to Bronn so he would take Jaime to creepy dragon basement, Jaime is clearly conflicted at seeing Tyrion, but still he listens.

Back on the boat some gold capes found their boat, Davos is a Master of manipulation and manages to fool them ‘til Tyrion shows up, fear not cuz Gendry puts that Hammer to use (he is epic guys) and Davos is practically signing those adoption papers.

10.- Jaime goes to Cersei’s chambers, she was talking with Qyburn and sasses the heck out of Jaime when he asks what was Qyburn doing there, anyway Jaime tells Cersei about his talk with Tyrion and the WW, Cersei is very dismissive (must be real easy when she hasn’t seen the Dragons or the WWs) but she thinks she can use this in her favor, also she is preggo (oh god why do I feel this is emotional manipulation or she is reaching menopausia?) they kiss and god Jaime stop.

11.- Our boat buddies are back on DS (traveling doesn’t make any sense what is time? What is distance? Who knows? No really jokes aside I understand they have to advance this plot fast as possible cuz they have only 2 episodes left this season) and Davos warns Gendry not to mention his dad or real name to King Jon, and that’s the first thing Gendry does!!! LMAO, this friendship is epic already (RobertxNed2.0) and Jon smiles for the first time in the south (dude he was almost dead all his time in DS but his bastard buddy shows up and he immediately jokes and laughs) this is my favorite bromance, and Davos is worried for this unruly sons of his (so he is Jon Arryn 2.0 right???)

So the very next day? Week? Who knows? They depart, Jorah gets a sad goodbye with D, and Jon a very awkward one, for real D is tryin to flirt and Jon says 'good fortune in the wars to come’?? Wasn’t it the same thing “The Sword of Morning” told Ned before they fought to death??? I mean one can clearly see Jon can’t wait to get the fuck out of Dragonstone, D makes goggly eyes at the boat (Jon) while Jorah turns back makes puppy eyes at D, and Jon is pushing harder to go as soon as possible.

11.- Back on the Citadel, Gilly is reading (I miss Shireen so much, she would have been so proud) some stuff of a Maester obssessed with registers, and discovers a prince Ragger (Imma call him that forever, thanx Gilly) got an annulment and married someone else in Dorne. We all, know this is about fuckboi Ragger Tupperwere and his rightful wife Elia Martell princes of DORNE, so you tell me this fucker not only humilliated her publicy on Harrenhall’s tourney but also re-married in her homeland?? And made her children bastards???? Seriously most of you don’t know how hard it is as a PoC and specially a WoC and watch this stupid bullshit where a woman of color’s suffering and humilliation just serves to further a white character’s (Jon Snow) storyline, while Raggers gets this beautiful memory lane stories about him singing the Poor, and people justifying his selfish bullshit with OMG he didn’t Love Elia he did it for true wuv!!! Miss me that bullshit who said Elia loved the bitch??? Yet still beared with dignity all the awful stuff he did, not only that but her and her children died (awful, awful deaths, not in a battlefield glorified as a song ones) scorned and set aside by Rhaegar while he was protecting new wifey and his new white super speshul babe.

I am beyond angry at this.

Anyway, Sam doesn’t care (nobody does really, they don’t even say her FUCKING name) cuz the maesters just won’t listen, so he steals some books and fucks out of the Citadel with his family.

12.- Yeah so in WF Arya is the worst spy ever following LF around, and he is purposefully as shady as he can be, Maester Wolkan gives him a copy of a letter and LF very loudly thanks him in Sansa’s name, he get’s the letter inside his chambers and goes away, Arya enters his chamber and finds the letter you know that one Sansa was manipulated into writing to protect her dad and the rest of her family, and Arya buys it. Honestly I am too empty now to care, Arya got played by a obvious stupid scheme but I can’t find the enrgy to care about all this drama.

13.- On Eastwatch, Jon and co. Talk with Tormund, who talks about the Dragon Queen and the one who fucks her brother (tha made me laugh a lot cuz Jon’s uncomfortable expression and Gendry’s smile) and he is frustrated cuz why didn’t they brought Brienne??? Jon’s smile is amazing and I am glad he is among people he is comfortable with. The moronic plan is laid, and Tormund is like well we are not the only ones who wants to go beyond the wall Tormund takes them to the cell, the Bannerless Brotherhood is there, and everyone hates each other suddenly, but the Hound hates everyone and makes them shut up, Jon frees them and they go to their stupid ass mission.

———– *sigh* Yeah so this is all, next week (May the gods help me) I’ll try to stop being so repulsed so I can Watch the next episode.

[winter-comes-with-fire-and-blood]

In Defense of Daenerys Targaryen: A Manifesto

(I originally posted this at the Westeros forum in September 2014. Cross-posted to my main blog, @lizstargaryen.)

Dany fans don't see her as a Mary Sue or an authorial self-insert -- at least, I don't. If I'm most like any Westeros character, it's probably a Stark, likely Arya (hence my icon).

Let's take up some of the charges against Dany by her detractors...

First, there's her appearance, "the most beautiful woman in the world." This is not special within the broader universe because MOST of the characters with Valyrian heritage are considered beautiful. Even Shiera Seastar, who would likely be rated more beautiful than Dany, has Valyrian genes on both sides.

Her "cruel streak." This pisses me off because those who cite it as a reason for hating Dany seem very arbitrary with this, holding Dany to an astronomically high standard that they do not hold other characters (especially the guys) to. To listen to her detractors, you'd think Dany is the most murderous character in the history of Westeros. Has she made stupid mistakes that have led to carnage? Yes. But does she agonize over the harm she's caused? YES, and I hate that it's never mentioned by her haters. It's not as if Dany doesn't have a conscience. It's not as if her stupid decisions don't keep her up at night.

Her stubborn hate for the Starks. This is basic reading comprehension. Most readers love the Starks because they were our gateway into the series. Dany knows nothing of the Starks except for what Barristan told her. If I was all alone in the world, with no father, mother, brothers, etc. and I felt as if someone aided and abetted my cousin to slaughter everyone, even if that person felt they had just cause (especially since my family's offenses were years before my birth), it would take more than one conversation to get me to change my mind about them. As for people angry with her because she extends this hate to Ned's children, may I remind you that in her view, no such courtesy was extended to her or the other children in her family, who were made to pay from Aerys and Rhaegar's sins. I'm a reader who enjoys reading about the Starks and Targaryens most, and I even understand that.

The dragons. People hate her because her dragons are a deus ex machina. Yet no one ever says this about the Stark's direwolves. Just as their direwolves can't save them from everything, Dany's children could do nothing about the Sons of the Harpy, the bloody flux, etc. They caused lots of harm which added to her political pressure cooker. And I know some of her detractors are pissed because Dany rode Drogon, because they wanted her to die in ADwD, but in turn, this makes me angry with them. We have read 5 books about how dragonriding was a thing in the past. I would have been thoroughly annoyed if we never saw anyone riding a Dragon, just like I was hoping to read about the COTF and the Others.

She's not some fairytale or Disney princess. (Seriously?) Dany is a survivor when she could've been a victim and a casualty. That girl wasn't supposed to survive at all. She survived a childhood with only her brother to look after her, she was married off and expected to die in the Dothraki Sea, and she's had multiple assassins after her, and just in the last book, we see a zillion people want her to die screaming. Name the Disney story with a princess like that.

Her choosing of Daario and rejection of Jorah really gets people's teeth grinding in particular. :rolleyes: So what? Are only male characters allowed to choose their lovers for shallow reasons? Especially when they're young AND a survivor of a marriage where they had no say at all? Widowed royals and nobles were among the most powerful women in the pre-modern world... personally, I hope she pulls an Elizabeth I and has a series of lovers, choosing never to marry.

And the worst charge IMO is that she's a kinslayer who doesn't care that her brother is dead. Are you effing serious? Have you lost a sibling? A spouse, parent, or child? I totally relate to her "if I look back, I am lost" -- do you know how complex the feelings of a person are whose abuser dies, when they loved the person that abused them?

Dany doesn’t think about the consequences of her actions. Dany can't sit down and truly think about everything that has happened to her since she was 13 in Pentos because if she does that, she will die. If she were male, no one would have a single problem with this, but because she's attractive, female, and young, it makes her crazy. Of course.

Dany fans are mindless teenage girls who haven’t read the books. Just like people who hate Dany fans dismiss us because they think we're mindless fangirls, I disregard (and have muted/ignored) irrational Dany haters because my assumption is that those readers can't stand reading about powerful, resilient women. They annoy me as much as we annoy them...

In fact, that's why (when pressed) I have to choose her over my Arya (who may develop some of those qualities later). Dany thinks a lot more about the consequences of her actions for everyday people than the Stark girls do. I think that's not a personal characteristic; I think that's a family quality. I do not blame the Stark girls for this. The North is very much "sh*t happens, get over it." Dany's family had all 7 Kingdoms to think of. Yes, Targs are arrogant, think themselves a cut above and superhuman (I LOLed at Dany’s strong belief that dragons don't get sick - what the heck was the Great Spring Sickness, then?), but I don't see many of the highborn characters thinking a ton about smallfolk and baseborns whom they don't know.

Dany agonizes over the fate of people. She isn't the smartest character but I find her to be very introspective. Many readers focus on her appearance, her "cruelty" and her dragons... I love and admire her courage. Yes, her compassion has led to a sh*tstorm in Slaver's Bay, but any effort to eradicate slavery is commendable. No one sane in my country would say our civil war wasn't worth it -- it was the bloodiest event that cost the most American lives, and at the time, the end result was unclear but 150 years later, we're a better nation instead of if we'd just waited til the 1880s to eliminate the institution.

Finally, I love that Dany is not looking for a husband to protect her or to take her task away from her. This is a series in which we have seen almost NO Queens Regnant. It's not as if Dany was introduced as someone wanting to take over and rule the world. The circumstances of her life have pulled her into each decision that she made. Either she had to be the she-dragon, or she would be dead. Just as some wonder what Westeros (and some readers) would have thought about Lyanna had she survived Robert’s Rebellion & childbirth, some of the same readers who loathe Dany for Slavers' Bay would have loved her if she'd perished in Vaes Dothrak or Qarth. (2017 addition: Dany is marrying for political alliances, as she did in Meereen, not because she’s hoping to abdicate her duty and her destiny.)

Go Dany. Haters gonna hate.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

if rhaegar haters have no haters then i am dead

like damn leave this character alone