#if he was a generally angry/impulsive character i wouldnt fight this hard because it would not make me like him less lol. but he wasn't.

[aalghul]

where are these posts of people overcorrecting by saying jason's never been angry/impulsive ever? everyone complains about them but all I've seen is people saying "jason was only angry/impulsive a limited amount of times and it wasn't any more than any other robin was. his general character was happy, clever and bright, so the few instances shouldn't define him any more than they do other robins" and people decide that by saying he wasn't angry/impulsive constantly, we're saying he's never behaved that way at any point.

dc pushed the categorization of jason as such so hard that now even when jason behaves in the exact same way as another character, he's more likely to have any action less than perfect be used as support for his being regularly angry/impulsive. tim can beat damian (unprompted) while damian's begging him to stop (tim does not stop; alfred pulls him off damian) but that doesn't mean he's an angry character; he's just emotional in that moment because of the context. but the context never matters when it comes to jason. there's the presumption that jason simply is angry and impulsive and lacking skill, so there's no need to inspect what may be causing his behaviour in that moment. it doesn't matter that jason did not have more instances of excessive anger or impulsiveness than any other robin, it doesn't matter that most of jason's time as robin does not support the idea that those few characteristics should define him. everyone has already accepted that jason is those things based on words and retroactive additions; you don't have to prove it, people already believe it based on retcons designed to make jason unlikable (usually to provide a comparison which uplifts tim). whereas any one making the claim that anger manifesting as physical aggression is a defining trait of tim drake's would actually have to prove the assertion using acceptable comics and actual logic. because, unlike with jason, these negative traits aren't a given for tim.

the facts are that jason's hopefulness, compassion, bright attitude and cleverness were more important to him as robin than anger/impulsiveness. the former were more relevant even in the stories that bring up the anger/impulsiveness! because those are consistent character traits for him, and the latter show up in certain emotional behaviours.

[roseworth]

honestly i don't think any jason after his death seems to really match the one before it? hard to say he's in character at any point then. they might as well have introduced some new guy and told his story through flashbacks. at least the new guy would presumably have someone that cared enough about their oc to give them consistency

can i say something controversial. i disagree with this

i think you have a great point about how robin jason is a lot different than red hood jason, bc a lot of robin stories have him as just an average happy kid so the whiplash from barr tec jason -> utrh jason is insane

on the other hand,, that adds to it for me. this was not winick's intention but i love the idea that jason was just a happy robin that loved his dad & loved being robin then immediately gets crushed because he was living his happy life and thought everything was great, then went through an insane trauma and realized that everything was not as great as he thought so he decided to start killing people. in my head theres a great narrative where he basically becomes unrecognizable to who he was before because thats how bad his death & resurrection fucked him up

but also heres where im gonna get even more controversial! i dont think hes that different!

i loooove barr tec but i think barr has specifically said that he wanted to be writing dick so he just pretended he was. a lot of robin jason writers didnt bother to give him any character of his own, he was just dick 2.0 until starlin

i dont love how starlin wrote jason because his only reason for writing jason like that was that he hated him and wanted to kill him. but. starlin's jason was so distinct from dick that its one of the only times that it feels like jason. honestly if you take early post-crisis robin jason and compare it to starlin jason, its not that different. hes a little aggressive & angry but does it for a good reason, he fights with batman and can be impulsive but has strong morals even if his morals arent always what batman believes, which is very similar to who he was when he first became robin post-crisis

and because starlin jason is one of the only times that jason is distinct from dick (not to mention, in terms of general robin jason knowledge, most of jason's iconic robin stories come from starlin), it makes sense that that version of jason was used in utrh. and the version of jason that had empathy for victims to the point that he wanted to kill the perpetrators makes so much sense for red hood jason. he believed that the best way to get vengeance for the victims was to kill the person who did it, which is why he was so mad that bruce wouldnt do that for him after he died

in my mind there is a very clear progression from the version of jason that died and the version that comes back to life. he had a lot of empathy for the victims when he was robin (to the point that bruce told him that he should sit out the garzonas case bc he got too emotionally invested in it) so it makes sense that when he is the victim of a gruesome murder from someone like the joker, who has killed and done horrible things and isnt going to stop, that he would be extremely pissed that bruce wouldnt let his morals go just to kill the person that killed jason, since thats what jason, even as robin, believed was the best way to get vengeance for the victims