#if Hobbits for some reason didn't have their own term for her they would more likely than not call her Ivon or Ivann

[brethilach]

this is extremely nitpicky and it doesn't matter but I just wanted to put it out there that people in Middle Earth would be far more likely to use either the Westron names or the names they have in their own languages to refer to the Valar (as opposed to the Quenya terms). And if they WERE to use an Elvish language they'd still be more likely to use Sindarin over Quenya (which was little more than a conversationally dead language by the late Third Age).

People (aside from the Noldor themselves) would be far more likely to call the Valar the Rodyn or Belain, or simply just "the powers" or "the gods" (if they were a human of non-Númenorean descent). There's no other canon term for Maiar (as far as I know), but the Sindarin term would still be preferred for them (whatever that is), or otherwise they'd just be called "the Beautiful" or even just "spirits". Valinor would be called Dor-Rodyn or just "the land of the powers/gods/rulers of the world" (or whatever term they have in their own language) and people would say Ardhon or just simply say "the World" over "Arda". Valar like Oromë and Varda would be MUCH better known as Araw and Elbereth (if not by the name in one's native language) rather than the names the Noldor gave them (Varda is already referred to as "Elbereth" in LOTR!)

I only say this just because I keep on reading fanfics where characters are casually throwing out Quenya terms to refer to these kind of things and it hurts me,, but it's very much a "he would NOT say that" sort of thing. It doesn't truly effect me at the end of the day

Edit: I want to clarify that I totally get that the need to make things understandable for the average reader is far more important than the frivolous semantics of constructed languages and fictional translation conventions. I'm not saying that people NEED or even SHOULD start using these names in their fics, I was just airing it out for people who DO care about this sort of thing (like me). But I don't think it's wrong to use the Quenya terms because that's what most people are familiar with (and I'll never snub someone's fic just because they do, even if it hurts the linguistic nerd inside my heart a little bit)

[theserpentsadvocate]

On Names

So I try to post (work of some kind) on my days off + stats, and it's BC Day, but I didn't quite manage to crank out a chapter of Satisfaction in time (I did write 5K today, though - I cannot wait until I can quit my second job and write fanfic on the weekend), so here is a rant/meta I did about my pet peeves on names in fic, and how this applies to Veronica Mars specifically. (I started with a wide net, but the main focus ended up there because of course it did.)

Fanfiction peeve of the day –

Please, I am begging you, pay attention to names in canon! It’s so glaring when people get it wrong, but it’s so common and I don’t understand!

If two characters have any kind of important relationship in canon and we see them interact more than once or twice, we know what they call each other. Do not deviate from that to be cute, or to emphasize a character’s accent. (Cordelia’s nickname is Cordy. Doyle calls her Cordy. He also calls her Cordelia. He should not be calling her ‘Delia’ just because he’s Irish.) Do not randomly switch a character’s nickname to a different nickname for no reason, or so that their love interest is calling them something special! (Shortened nicknames are not a thing in Middle-earth unless you are a hobbit. Unless you feel qualified enough with Sindarin (usually) name construction to have someone give their friend or spouse an epessë like ‘Tinúviel’, that person should be using their full name. Yes, even if it’s three syllables. Spare me from this ‘Fara’ nonsense – Eowyn would call him ‘Faramir’. Yes, always.) Do not assign a character who doesn’t use nicknames a nickname they never use in canon just because you can’t imagine intimacy coexisting with a long name, or a standard one! (Hermione goes by Hermione. She takes pains to get Viktor Krum to say her full name, even if she tolerates a bit of mispronunciation. She is not ever called Mione.) If someone threw out a one-off joke nickname for someone, for the love of Dante, do not start using it as a regular form of address!

And for the love of god, pay attention to the context in which people use nicknames! I am running across this willy-nilly in the Veronica Mars fandom right now, so, for my sanity:

Veronica:

I am reading an otherwise mostly-good fanfic right now where Logan keeps calling Veronica ‘Ronica’ and it’s driving me up the wall. No one has ever called her ‘Ronica’ in the history of ever, and it’s not even a standard nickname for Veronica, so it’s even worse. (This is extra annoying to me because I happen to think ‘Ronica’ is an exceptionally stupid nickname (although it would actually be fine as a name in its own right), but YMMV.)

Veronica typically doesn’t use nicknames, she doesn’t introduce herself with nicknames, she’s comfortable with her full name. Her dad (nor her mom for that matter) never calls her anything but ‘Veronica’ (or ‘honey’). Her two long-term boyfriends only ever call her Veronica (with one exception that I will Get Into below). Cliff, Wallace, and especially Weevil have been known to call her ‘V’* on occasion, which is a sign that they have relatively close relationships to her that also have a strong element of casualness or flippancy (notably, during Season Four, when they are not close, Weevil only ever calls her ‘Veronica’). Lilly, who was exceptionally close to her, lengthens her name as a nickname/form of endearment, calling her ‘Veronica Mars’ pretty often.

Logan does call her ‘Ronnie’ in early Season One. This is extremely obviously him being an asshole; he’s addressing her by a diminutive she doesn’t use to emphasize that they’re no longer friends and because doing so is inherently demeaning (imagine if you have a Michael who goes by Michael (or even Mike) and you suddenly start calling him ‘Mikey’ – it’s rude and dismissive). No one ever calls her that except him and Dick, and once Logan and Veronica are back on good terms, no one calls her that except Dick, who is doing it to be irreverent and disrespectful. It is objectively incorrect for her friends and/or boyfriend to be calling her ‘Ronnie’ and utterly bizarre for the narration to be referring to her that way.

*I feel strongly that it should be ‘V’ and not ‘Vee’ because it’s not short for a name that starts with a ‘vee’ sound (e.g., if her name was Vianne or Vita I might feel differently), it’s the actual letter V that her name starts with, but I acknowledge that that’s subjective.

Also, Felix referred to her as ‘blondie’ one time, dismissively, to Weevil – ‘Blondie’ is not his nickname for her! Wallace, insomuch as he has a nickname for her, calls her ‘V’, although he sticks with ‘Veronica’ most of the time; ‘SupaFly’ was a one-off joke and he should not be calling her that on the regular any more than she should be calling him ‘Sodapop’* just because she made an Outsiders reference in the pilot.

*And on that note, it’s ‘Sodapop’ because that’s the name of a character from The Outsiders, not ‘soda pop’ like the drink.

Logan:

I am begging you, Weevil called Logan ‘Opie’ one time. It was a generic insult, not a nickname. Even in an AU where they’re somehow bros, it is not something he would be calling him on a regular basis! (Conversely, Logan should not be calling him ‘Paco’ for the same reason, and also because it’s racist so that’s even worse!)

Weevil:

Authority figures (Keith, various teachers, Cliff when representing him in court, etc.) typically call Weevil ‘Eli’; his friends, particularly the PCHers, call him ‘Weevil’ pretty much exclusively (except for Veronica), and his family seems to waver between the two with a preference for his actual name – his grandmother calls him both ‘Eli’ and ‘Weevil’ when she’s talking about him, but sadly we don’t get enough scenes with her to know what’s more common (the only time we hear her actually address him she calls him ‘m’ijo’), Chardo usually calls him ‘Weevil’ but switches to ‘Eli’ when he’s making an emotional appeal, Claudia appears to exclusively call him ‘Eli’. (Context makes it pretty clear that Jade calls him ‘Eli’ as well, which is unsurprising.) We never hear Ophelia call him anything, but he refers to himself as ‘Uncle Eli’ when talking to her.

Veronica only ever calls him Weevil when she’s talking to him, notably, although she does use his real name on occasion when she’s talking about him – to her criminology class, when representing herself as his PI in ‘Weevils Wobble But They Don’t Fall Down’, and to Jade (even correcting herself from ‘Weevil’) in Mr. Kiss And Tell. (Interestingly, she’s more likely to use his full name than just his legal first name – she calls him ‘Eli Navarro’ several times, but almost never uses just ‘Eli’. She’s also probably the only person to call him ‘Weevil Navarro’*, presumably because in that instance she’s talking to him.)

*although Cliff does call him ‘Eli ‘Weevil’ Navarro’ on one occasion, complete with audible quotation marks

The point is, Weevil does get called both, and there’s some leeway for things to change a bit as relationships change – it’s not necessarily out of character, for instance, for Veronica to start addressing him as ‘Eli’ if they’ve started dating, or if it’s a fic (particularly an AU) set around the time of the novels – but it shouldn’t come from nowhere, and it shouldn’t be arbitrary. Keith wouldn’t be addressing him as ‘Weevil’, and Felix and Hector wouldn’t be calling him ‘Eli’ (unless maybe he’s secretly dating one of them it’s Felix and they’re in private). [Writing that sentence made me low-key start shipping him with Hector – why do I do this to myself?]

What he should not be getting called is ‘Weevs’, which is right in the midpoint between ‘Ronnie’ and ‘Opie’. Yes, Logan called him that once or twice (keywords once or twice) – in the exact same context that he called Veronica ‘Ronnie’, which is to say, as a mocking diminutive. It should not be serving as a general nickname even when Weevil and Logan are antagonistic, and it should definitely never be something that Hector or Veronica calls him! (And yes, I have seen both.)

And since I’m already aggravated – while I’m on the subject ‘Eli’ is a name unto itself. There’s a subset of fandom that seems strangely convinced it’s short for ‘Elias’ or ‘Elijah’ and… no. It’s not.

[thoroughlyskeptic]

“We both went to the London premiere but not together. We weren’t engaged and there was no reason to sort of show off to the world." USA Today November 18, 2014.

I'd like the Nannies to express their opinion about this please. With the full understanding that no person or persons on this side of the computer can control, sway or change Ben's mind or heart. That's not the point. The point is to understand what you believe is the psychological reasoning behind the decision to use that phrasing with his pregnant, soon to be fiancé and soon to be wife and soon to be mother of his child. According to People magazine and the Daily Mail, and those, including nannies, who said they have seen a Birth Certificate, Christopher Carlton Cumberbatch was born on June 1st.  Dislike it all you want, having a birthday makes it possible, and given human nature, likely that people will speculate on the date of conception, especially considering the facts, including the timing with regards to the Oscars and the shotgun* nature of the wedding. If it was a full term no problem pregnancy, 40 weeks, not under or over due, she was 2 and a half months pregnant when the above statement was made.

This story you nannies have built up, that Ben and Sophie have a true perfect love forever, that they never fight, how do you reconcile that with the whole unvarnished truth? Unless Sophie was totally gormless, she must have known she was pregnant. If Ben was dating her and truly in love, he would have known she was pregnant. They married three months later. He was in true love with the women he married, the woman he proposed to, whom he didn't mention by her name in interviews, and didn't want to walk down the red carpet to his movie premiere with the woman making his dreams come true, his dreams of being a father.

Now you are going to yell about things like privacy. That what he said was meant to protect Sophie and hide the pregnancy. I think anyone who is at all skeptical could answer that one. No one eager for privacy about their personal life talks to reporters, USA Today, or People magazine at all, let alone does a wedding dress spread in Vogue. I'm surprised it was in the print edition, and not the digital only. After all, maternity bridal gowns aren't really "en vogue". The long and short of it is that photo spread was well positioned and they managed to photograph her to look like she wasn't 5 1/2 months pregnant, perhaps to make that style of gown more in demand. Shotgun weddings tend to favor empire waists and lots of flounce to disguise the bump.

Now, I know the next question from the peanut gallery will be, why bring this up? They have stayed together, have two more kids together and it has been x and whatever years.

Here are several responses. Pick one or more in any combination.

1. Our feelings don't have to be right to be valid.

2. You have the option to object to our perfectly valid emotional reaction.

3. We have a right to block you from our page. You also have this right.

4. If you object to our opinions, you do not have to read our blogs or interact with us in anyway. If you are constantly feeling harassed because you see content from skeptics, BLOCK THEM, don't blame them! If the worker at Sea World handed you a poncho to protect yourself and you didn't use it, you can't blame the Shamu if you get splashed.(Sorry for the outdated and insensitive analogy but I wanted something easy to understand. I disagree whole hearted with the captivity of intelligent creatures be they aquatic or terrestrial mammals.)

5. We are valid in our own right as people. If you attack us on a personal level, we will defend ourselves and we have the right to do so.

6. As long as we do not interact with anyone,(i.e. Ben, Sophie, Karon, his management, etc) we can say whatever we want on our own blogs. The majority of us have never met him and don't want to. As far as we are concerned, Ben is an imaginary person that we are writing as a character for a long running D&D campaign.

7. However, the same does not apply to you. Many of you have gone out of your way to meet him. You believe that by sending hate to skeptics or doxxing them you will earn validation from him. I worry that some of you are on the brink and if he doesn't acknowledge you one time, or does something that you can't justify with your world view, one of you will snap. You think this about us, I know. But the nannies on the whole have much more emotional investment in Ben's personal life. (As a for instance, The skeptics call him Ben because at least one nanny has said that, "we don't know that he prefers that nickname so we should use his full name" another said "nicknames are for close friends and family and we aren't those, so we should call him by his full name or Mr. Cumberbatch." If Ben even has two thoughts about any skeptic or nanny(especially how they address him in blog posts) for the entire year I'd be surprised. Unless, of course, it when he has to think about you lot bothering him, stalking him, and generally making a nuisance of yourselves.

******

I also know you complain that the skeptics don't "love" Ben in every thing he does and don't always watch all his work. The gatekeeping within the fandom, not include how you discount and loathe the skeptics, is extreme. Fans must be all or nothing.

1. Not everyone has the money to participate fully, whether that is buying movies, theater tickets, merchandise or going to conventions to hear him speak. Disregarding fans based on their ability to participate, especially due to financial inability, is gatekeeping and it is the worst kind of gatekeeping. You are saying the only good fans are rich ones.

2. Generally the nannies viewpoint is Eurocentric as well. Some people have jobs, have children to raise, have other things that take priority over "being a fan". Being a fan requires time that poorer countries, less developed countries generally lack. Some countries censor the movies that are shown. Doctor Strange was not shown in the East the way it was in the west and unless you can afford to travel to another location,(Say the London Premiere that didn't quite happen and the nannies were upset because he didn't preform like a good little monkey in a suit for them?) you are made to feel left out by the uber fans.

3. Some people have emotional triggers. Ben's roles tend more towards the dramatic then comedic. Drama can deeply affect those who have experienced similar situations. He has been in movies dealing with Cancer, Childhood Abuse, Incest, Slavery, War, Pedophilia, have I missed any major triggers?

4. He is also in the MCU and the Hobbit movies which have flashing lights which makes them inaccessible to those who have seizures and migraines. Another oft used gatekeeping tactic in fandoms is the restriction of accessibility. In the US, there are compliancy laws for disabilities(although they aren't always obeyed) but smaller, poorer countries may not have accessible movie theaters. Fans with disabilities can not travel as easily as more abled fans. Smaller independent films Benedict made at the beginning of his career may not have captions or audio description or may be unafforable for those that have medical costs to consider.

5. There is also gender bias in the Cumberbatch fandom. One need only look at their chosen name, Cumberbitches. I can think of 15 more gender neutral terms off the top of my head but men and those who identify as male were inherently excluded from the fandom. I can think of ONE male fan. Maybe one that writes under his wife's account as to not get ridiculed. Because they would be ridiculed by the nannies, that is who they are, the "gatekeepers of the fandom", deciding who is worthy to be a Ben fan.

They have made fun of fans before. Not just skeptics. People they don't like or don't want in their little clique. So the majority of Ben's fans are middle aged rich white women. Not because that's who he's trying to reach as an audience but because that is who his uber fans allow to worship him.

If you are in need of examples of how out of control the uber fans are take the following for an example.

Someone did a nice tweet about other actors. It had nothing to do with Ben, although it did feature Tom Hiddleston and other Marvel actors. The ubers starting by saying Ben wasn't listed, then jumped into, well, a screenshot is worth a thousand words.

As they say, that escalated quickly...

*Shotgun Wedding is an American term for a marriage precipitated by the pregnancy. It comes from an American colloquialism, termed as such based on a stereotypical scenario in which the father of the pregnant bride-to-be threatens the reluctant groom with a shotgun in order to ensure that he follows through with the wedding.