#idk who anyone is talking about when they bring up ppl on fandom twitter. i don't want to know

[lucifer-kane]

want to do a red valley piece because i have a little itch but also consistently being demotivated because borderline 0 fandom interaction despite loving when i make art for it because it's literally tied for first for my favorite ad

[straycalamities]

xposting from twitter but

kinda related to my other post, but guys can we please be more considerate about camp entre fanworks? i’ve seen people be unhappy with this or that being focused on (swagtre. it’s swagtre.) and wanting this or that but like

1. there’s /plenty/ of old art (and some new! i’ve drawn some!) where they’re solo

2. be the change you wish to see in the world

i don’t wanna be a dick but like i can see what you guys say pretty easily. im not some huge media producer who doesn’t pay attention. im a small creator who draws his oc kissing another oc 😭 (im not even indie!!! i’m even smaller than that!!! i don’t make ANY money from truffula flu or anything like that!! to some of you guys i might feel like a big deal but im just some guy in a niche fandom of a niche fandom of a niche fandom. i’m an absolute nobody outside this teeny tiny corner of the internet!!)

be polite, please

ever since camp entre picked back up last year i’ve seen ppl get more and more uh…bold i guess..with what they say and i just want to nip that behavior right there in the bud bc camp entre (or any truffula flu story for that matter) is not Big Media

none of us get or have gotten royalties or whatever from it. camp entre was a former-friend group’s public rp. keep that in mind when you say stuff in tumblr tags or use searchable words/phrases please. any one of us could be looking at any time

if you want more solo entre stuff, you can find it in my #entre tag (it’s all entres but there’s that truffula flu guy is in there) or #swag for that guy

yes there’s still a lot of ship art in there but it’s how i tag so…my bad

OR you can head to this old blog where the whole point was to be a place for me to reblog ALL the stuff that had entre in it and i even avoided reblogging most swagtre (because, go figure, there were ppl complaining about the amount of swagtre back then too) so it’s entre-focused stuff, check it out if you haven’t:

also if anyone dislikes swagtre so much i got bad news for them abt what was canon & continues to be canon 😭)

but either way let’s kinda…lay off the people creating things for fun and for love because we aren’t seeing what we, personally, want to see

and i especially won’t let anyone make ME feel bad for drawing something that brings me joy. i got enough misery in my life as it is

i got reasons and such for why i only draw/reshare/talk abt what i do but it’s nobody’s business tbqh. like i know it’s rough when im basically the only one of the original group that’s available because most (if not all) of the rest want to lay it to rest (as is their right) and so im the only one making “canon” stuff for camp entre anymore and i have a very loud muse for swagtre

but like idk i just want ppl to have fun so like

if you aren’t seeing your fav/ship enough then draw, write, or commission it! more stuff is always good stuff!! do macaroni art, edits, cosplay! whatever u want! it’s all cool!

[golbrocklovely]

A fair few people on twitter are now saying Colby and Sam groomed Katrina, that Colby 'had her' first then passed her onto Sam who groomed her until they broke up.

I am also seeing a handful of people saying Sam SA Katrina and I'm like 'so now we're entering the crazy train state of hysteria?' What are Twitter folks on? Why are they now making up lies? Is it because everyone is leaping onto the 'cancel Sam and Colby' train and thus believing everything they read on twitter now?

Not only are they inventing things now but the things they are inventing are horrific and honestly the people saying it all should be ashamed of themselves in my personal opinion.

i've seen the one twitter thread from an ex fan that said this and like…. it's actually funny to me how much they lied. like, full on lied, made shit up, not real at all lol

kat literally said so herself in a video that when she met snc she was only ever into sam. that her and colby became friends first, but that's only bc sam was so tired he barely even remembered meeting her. that's can be found in the how i met my gf video sam did years ago, around the five minute mark. that's when the story starts.

secondly, a lot of ppl continue to bring up the age gap that sam and kat had when they first started dating. kat was 16, and sam was 19. he didn't introduce her to the fandom until she was 17 and he was 20…. which would still be illegal in california but i guess is somehow more acceptable??? idk

and look, i'm not gonna comment on it. yall (as in those that want to discuss this, not you specifically anon) have your yelling matches somewhere else. bc i'm not gonna comment on a relationship that doesn't even exist anymore. not to mention kat's parents were very fully aware kat was dating sam at the time. so were his parents. so, if anyone had an actual problem with sam dating kat at the time, they should have done something.

this genuinely feels like it's coming out of nowhere. like the hate for snc on there has been constant for months now, but this uptick feels strange to me.

personally, i'm not gonna talk about it any further than this. bc i've made my opinions abundantly known at this point. i'm gonna enjoy my time, make some art, and keep it moving. and i suggest everyone else does the same.

log off of twitter, it's too much of a hellscape rn. plus snc themselves aren't on there - for good reason now, so it's not like you're gonna miss anything.

[dlstmxkakwldrlarchive]

the og nuanced ot4 takes anon here, you know... there are so many sides to this its such a mess

because on one side, i do think that ot4s deserve the right to exist in this fandom peacefully and there is nothing wrong with being an ot4 if you're not being malicious about it (and like the 2017 scandal aside there are so many reasons why you could be one, i went through a period of just dropping kibum for a year bc man has consistently pissed me off with his actions for an extended time myself), because yeah - at the end of the day they're just a bunch of men and they're meant to be bringing some light into your boring life, not upset you. so blocking/hating on accounts solely based on the fact that they don't post about a member is kinda wild to me, some of them are just existing peacefully and dealing with liking the group despite not really being on board with everything it offers, and thats okay. it was a difficult year for us all. and i wanted to say i agree with the take on how the iwol and kwols perceptions are much different on this, as someone who exists on both sides of the fandom i see both angles of the conversation and its definitely a much wider gap than many of us realises

but obviously there is also the dark side of this which is just targeted harassment some of them engage in, and i genuinely don't understand how you can be an ot4 at all if one of the members makes you feel this hateful - like they totally ignore that their bias literally associates himself with the person they despise, how do you live like this??? i genuinely cant get it. like picking at random here but imagine biasing minho and despising jinki, how can you stay in this fandom if the man you love so much enables this horrible person? but at the same time i cant even be mad at them i think they need therapy huh

then there's also, i think twitter enables a culture of harassment and it is not possible to escape it unless you leave the platform, and id advise anyone who is disturbed by the constant drama there to just deactivate. you can get your updates from insta, or anywhere else really. it makes your life so much better, i promise.

also on another note jinki rly should not be opening his own fanmail, i was watching that video and thinking of how high the possibility of really dangerous things being sent to him is with how deranged these girls get, but also i think the hate might end online for a lot of them. idk i just feel like weve never properly processed 2017 as a fandom and it makes me sad

and i keep thinking how certain i am that jinki would get funeral wreaths sent to sm if it were a thing in 2017, and how fucking disgusting itd all feel a few months later.

ill stop the yap train, apologies for the essay /L

idk if this will feel like im watering down your point, but 😭 i feel like this is the same argument we do when we discuss solo stans like im fine with them and i think it's natural that every member has them since they're also soloists but i feel like not everyone deciding on solo stan is really fine with x member still being associated with shinee and shawols and yk all of the implications that come with it just like i feel like ot4 don't. and we're discussing those! and yk in the context of twt too. like, i agree i also think that platform has a unique type of hatred that got maximized recently because of the ceo change, too, and kpop stans are yk pests so it's only natural that we got at this point but its something you only find there tbh.

while i know there are silent ot4, i don't feel like talking about them even if I'm not against ppl distancing from x member bcs bringing them up feels like a shut down the ppl who are like trying to address the harassment and etc that comes from the (other) ot4s. honestly, i feel like ppl blocking eo in shawoltwt is good actually 😭 and i dont see it as something that is shocking or idk

[mybrainproblems]

aaaand... adding even more to this post since some of it is a follow-up on the above, I want to keep it on the same post.

so after making the above post, @happilyfeatherafter reminded me that some of the times i remembered misha talking about returning to set were from a livestream and community texts, not from twitter.

in the livestream with michael sheen from 30 july 2020, he talks about taking cas' coat from set bc he wasn't sure if they'd be going back (gif set here) [disclaimer that i've only skipped around through that livestream and not watched it start to finish in its entirety.]

also, the 15x20 script was way sketchier than i remembered and @lets-steal-an-archive made a post about it back when it was being auctioned about why they wouldn't be bidding on it that goes into more detail. and yeah. with the additional context (and some x files script pics they sent for comparison), that script is super sketchy. i'm not about to waste the printer ink to sit down with a copy and do a read-along with an 11th watch of the finale, but it doesn't inspire confidence no matter how close it is to the final product.

also, the seller had the benefit of listing it post-finale airing but two months prior to the s15 DVD releasing with deleted scenes so... idk. this is super outside my wheelhouse so i won't spec further. the script is just really sketchily sourced and iirc the bidder got a refund since the seller then offered PDF scan versions for very cheap to others who asked... none of which inspires confidence.

further shenanigans from the past few days' life ruining research! not calling any of this a smoking gun, but based on the tumblr source time stamps; it looks like misha sent out the below pics as community texts post-finale but the pics themselves were taken during 15x18 filming - if anyone has the actual time stamps i'd love to know! even after half a day of searching, i couldn't find versions with a time stamp on them. in both cases, they seem to indicate that he knew this was his last day or last episode filming for the show. (he's also mentioned that they threw him a good bye party after 15x18 and idk why you'd do that if you intended for the actor to come back.)

(left pic source) (middle & right pic source)

whenever misha has talked about being in the finale, it's been in reference to an "original" pre-COVID version of the script where he would be jimmy novak and not cas. but given that 15x18 wrapped before shutdown, my guess is that it had already been settled that he wouldn't be in the finale. so yes this would have been a "pre-COVID" script, but probably not the prod draft script from march 2020.

(and having spoken with ppl who were already in the fandom when s15 started airing/looking at posts from fall 2020/pre-15x18... a good chunk of ppl didn't expect misha to be in the last two eps when it started airing again)

i would also like to note that when talking about "pre-COVID" scripts from s15... that could be anywhere from may/june 2019 to march 2020 when set shut down, which @swordofsun and I went back and forth on a bit discussing here wrt revisions of 15x20.

and i'm loathe to bring it up without a source, but i know there was something floating around about misha(?) saying in a m&g at the las vegas con in march 2020 that the finale script was still going through a lot of revisions. so at that point, a kinda short window before they returned to set to finish 15x19 and 15x20. iirc there was a tweet about it that has since been deleted but i tend to take m&g stuff with a grain of salt.

point being - the 15x20 script is way sketchier than i remembered and there's more actual evidence that misha wasn't intended to be in the finale from before set shut down (and the "misha filmed but was cut" conspiracy continues to be my personal bugbear)

hello, i'm finales georg...

i don't want to further clutter up the notes on this post while responding to the tags below but the persistence of the "finale is short/scenes are missing/extra ad break” conspiracies drives me absolutely bananas when i've watched the finale ten times and have posted about this A LOT trying to clear things up. (disclaimer that yes, i'm a goddamn destiel shipper but i care about Facts above all.)

ok but this is weird because i'd swear the episode was shorter (11 missing scenes!) but okay. maybe we all mandela effected ourselves into #beleving that. because it felt shorter. but i will die on the hill that it had another ad break. i understand this person has the thing #recorded with ads so i am thinking maybe different ad breaks in different idk time zones??? #because the finale did air an hour earlier in canada so maybe idk i am reaching here but maybe different states or whatever had different #ad breaks??? as for the last minute changes - wasn't the cover band asked for permission to use their version of carry on like a week before #the thing aired??? so even if the episode was 42 minutes and had no additional ad break - which i am side eying but lets say all was normal #i will always say they were changing thing until the absolute last minute (carry on my wayward son X 2 #the crew on the bridge which is not only giant 4th wall breaking but also wow they really got all those people in one place in times of #covid???) #anyway. tinfoil hat stays on sorry guys :/ (via @officialmisha)

short and snarky: there are plenty of real and sourced examples of network homophobia and scripted/directed destiel scenes being cut to point to. we don’t need to make this stuff up just bc the finale wasn’t what we wanted. so it’s not the mandela effect — it’s ppl repeating a conspiracy/rumor bc it supports their narrative and it’s easier and more fun to repeat something that supports a narrative they already believe (misha or something destiel was cut) vs the boring act of fact checking.

longer circumspect answer with links bc like many ppl i am in my debunking era and i rewatched "roblox_oof" last night.

like i said. i've watched the finale ten times. i’ve gone over the episode with a fine toothed comb and posted a detailed breakdown of timing marks on my blog. it’s actually extremely obvious where the ad breaks are once you know roughly where to look for them (they have a longer fade to black instead of a quick cut scene change). there’s no room for extra ad breaks and i think this conspiracy/rumor persists in part bc the episode feels so sparse in terms of cast and the fact that the episode’s momentum hits a barn post (and rebar) less than 20min into an hour-long programming block.

also i’m begging ppl to actually look at that timing mark post. it’s very straightforward and i spent a lot of time on it. i don’t care if ppl plagiarize it at this point if it means this conspiracy stops. i've got almost every second accounted for.

the "eleven missing scenes" that you're thinking of are probably from the finale script of questionable authenticity that @spnscripthunt acquired back in 2021 which can be found here. it's dated as the “final draft” from 11 sep 2020 and filming on 15x20 wrapped on 10 sep 2020. as noted at the bottom of this superwiki page "[the] script came from someone claiming to have been the person who did the closed captions for the show in Russia. There are some indications that it possibly may not be authentic, but this has not been confirmed."

if we go with the possibility that this was a transcript meant for subtitles, the "omitted" scenes were probably written but never filmed since it's the "final draft" and not a color revision (blue, green, yellow, etc). unfortunately, i’ve lost track of where i read it and a preliminary duckduckgo search isn’t bringing it up bc there's a program for script writing called final draft, but iirc the “final draft” version of a script is a transcript of what was filmed (e.g. there are parts of that 15x20 script that ended up being deleted scenes on the DVD). spnscripthunt also has an example of a confirmed final draft for 09x02 (funnily enough, also a dabb-penned ep). if anyone can confirm with a source that i have the purpose of the “final draft” version designation wrong, please let me know! i love being proven wrong with Facts.

i do want to acknowledge that the two “final drafts” do look different from each other and the 15x20 one doesn't look like a “real” final draft script since it lacks the revision/versioning dates that a script would normally have on the cover page. it could be that it was intended for subtitles; there's the chance it's been re-typed to anonymize it if there was anything indicating who the "owner" was, tho that seems a wee bit cloak and dagger to me. and again: it's considered of questionable authenticity. there are some things that don't quite line up but oh dear god i don't want to get even further out into the weeds than i already am.

i won't disagree that it's weird as hell that neoni only got asked about using their cover seven days prior to the episode airing (tiktok here). my personal theory is that they were hoping to get a more expensive song (maybe a zepp song, idk) and didn't manage to secure the rights in the end. again: this is pure conjecture on my part! but i could absolutely see someone working on the show hearing neoni’s cover and liking it and then maybe they were using it as a placeholder until it got down to the wire and they had to make a call/send the ep to networks. because yes, it is baffling they played a song and then a cover of it with only a 40 second break between. (i do actually really like the neoni cover! the placement is just weird and i think it could have worked if they had the kansas version at the beginning and closed with neoni's full cover.)

as to the 4th wall break COVID stuff: robert singer talked with variety magazine about filming the last two episodes and the logistics of filming during a pandemic. whether they should have been filming during a pandemic is a separate discussion but their use of office vs set pods, strict quarantining and daily testing meant that they had zero positive tests in the month they were filming (18 aug to 10 sep). so given all that, i personally don’t think it’s totally out of pocket to have everyone standing outdoors on a bridge for maybe an hour to get a drone shot of them together. (i won’t get into incubation periods and viral load, but if everyone tested negative that day and every day for a month prior, it was a fairly low risk scene to film outdoors and for all we know everyone was masked until the last possible second. there were plenty of outdoor masked protests in 2020 that weren't superspreader events.)

and before anyone brings up “but misha was in vancouver!” i know someone who looked into it and they said no dice, nothing matched up between the backgrounds in those pics and places in vancouver. his statements about “us” going back to set over the summer were pretty generic in hindsight and “we”/"us" could be him or the spn crew generally. unfortunately i’m not able to find those tweets but the use of “we” was likely so as not to give away he wouldn’t be returning to set. (bc we were absolutely casbaited!) and bc it comes up a lot: the "onion field pic" was from when they were filming 15x17 and was not taken while filming 15x19 and 15x20.

besides, it would be ridiculous to go through the financial and logistical headaches of bringing someone into the country to film during a pandemic, only to cut their scenes in the end! honestly, the script is pretty tight when the scenes are given so much breathing room! the only thing i could see being further cut down is The Monologue and even then, i don’t think there was any intent to cut it down given it was filmed in fairly long takes.

i’ve said it many times before, but i believe the finale was fucked long before they returned to set. walker got the green light in sep 2019 and it was being marketed heavily as a “follow on” show to spn given jared’s involvement. the demo they were courting for walker has little to no overlap with the demo for destiel fans — why would they want a finale that catered to a demo they weren't interested in courting? we just went through a historic double strike that exposed so much of the rot of business interests overriding creative vision. this isn't completely unfounded conjecture.

i will not apologize for the length of this bc i wanted to be thorough, but i do want to give context that i think the reason these conspiracies and rumors grind my gears so much is because anyone can fact check all of this. the truth is out there and absolutely none of it is that hard to find. the most time consuming/difficult part of this was finding someone who had a DVR’d copy of the finale from when it aired live and they actually found me themselves after i’d been low key asking around for a year!

and like. i get it. conspiracies are fun. but there are so many sourced instances of network homophobia and destiel being cut that it's like. why is this something folks are hanging onto? the cw is notorious for having upper level meddling with finales bc there's a follow-on show they want to shuffle fans along to and spn is no exception.

[figmentof]

I swear to god there needs to be some sort of support group for people who escaped our flag means brainrot. I joined when it was small and I had never been in a fandom discord server before, so I had no reference point for what was "normal" after it got big. Thank you for sharing your experience, it makes me feel less insane for thinking a lot of what I saw was not okay when everyone around me was saying otherwise. I'm very sorry for what you went through.

it's actually astonishing the number of people that were there who witnessed it all happen and just stayed... silent. 1.6k people at the time and only three new friends i made who are now good friends of mine spoke up and left/abandoned the server in an act of defiance. i didn't talk about it in may right after getting removed as mod because tumblr can have a very... dismissive(?) attitude about discord servers since they're notorious for being hectic and the messiest source of drama (which is true to an extent ig but idk i like discord because of how much more connected we can be as a group of fans in a properly run server and it's an experience you can't ever get on tumblr or twitter). i felt like back then without anyone actually harassing me here on tumblr, it was my word against, well, the rest of this racist fandom. i felt incredibly helpless and isolated. but now that there's more people that joined the fandom after may and are actively talking about racism and constantly bringing it up (though still very few notes on those posts :|), i felt like my story being shared now will at least be taken seriously, and i'm glad it seems to be the case with the overwhelming number of ppl who sent me kind asks with words of encouragement <3

i actually made an anti-racist ofmd server a while back but it never picked up. i’m assuming now that s2 is a reality and actually finished maybe people would be interested again. of course it’s purposely selective so fans of color can feel safe. if you or anyone else is interested in joining lmk!

[yeetlegay]

So there are talks about Apo participating on a new project with “spare me your mercy” author (sammon) in case it’s a completely new story do you have any other actor/ actress that you would like to see him costar with ? I mean my obvious option is Mile bc their chemistry is so hard to find. That intense way of working together is not easily found (also I’m new to bl so idk any actors) but in case he is the only one chosen to work on the project. Who do you think could bring that same level of chemistry as MA has shown, do you think it could be replicated ?

I ask you this bc I’ve seen how partial you are in regards with MA a lot of people get triggered when we separate them. I mean if they continue acting they are bound to act with other ppl at some point, it’s just an innocent question. Like I said I would love to see MA at least in another series before they separate, that’s if they do.

I’m not really plugged into fandom space outside Tumblr so I might’ve just missed it, but this is the first I’ve heard about another project for Apo! I’ve been looking forward to seeing what he goes for next after the movie he’s doing with Mile.

As far as actors I’d like to see him work with, I honestly have no idea lol, partly because both Apo and Mile are a bit older than most of the BL actors, and quite honestly given how suffocating the shipping culture around BL acting pairs can be, I don’t think it makes sense for them to do more than 2-3 projects together if they want to grow as actors and avoid being basically boxed in career-wise. Disentangling themselves as a branded pair would likely entail stepping away from BL altogether imo, at least for a while until the craze dies down.

The closest comparison I can make for this kind of transition being done successfully is MaxTul, who are considered a BL pair but have managed to avoid a lot of the negative attention and toxic fan behavior that tends to come with that label. It’s partly because they’re from an earlier moment in BL when the industry was still new and relatively niche, but also because they have a pretty relaxed but aloof approach to self-promotion and fan expectations. No one thought they’d play opposite each other again after the TWM sequel, and they’re still this unicorn duo that gets everybody excited when they’re together, but their careers haven’t been held back because they don’t really let fans count on seeing them together again. We get what we get and we have to be satisfied with it basically 😂 Apo and Mile have been a LOT more in the spotlight from the jump though, so even if they started dialing back now it would be tough for them to find their footing career-wise.

But anyway, Apo obviously has incredible chemistry with Mile so of course I’d love like 20 more shows with them, but chemistry is as much about hard work/effort as it is about natural compatibility. I think it’s a bit of a disservice to Apo (and Mile!) to use KP as a yardstick against which the rest of their careers should be measured, if that makes sense. They’re both talented, skilled professionals and at the end of the day, if the people they work with are too, good chemistry won’t be an issue imo. And they deserve to stretch their abilities and work with new people on new projects, however much pressure I’m sure there is from a subset of fans for them to just keep making projects together until they retire lol. Ultimately they’re just people doing their jobs like anyone else. It’s not for me or anyone else to dictate how they choose to do them.

If it interests you, I did write an incredibly lengthy post about celebrity culture and shipping, informed by my sociology background, which you’re welcome to read. Despite the stupendous amounts of Apo and Mile pics on my phone, I actually don’t really keep up with them on social media so the above is all based on what I know from Tumblr, asks/DMs I get, and educated guesses about the state of affairs in the wider fandom (aka Twitter, an even eviler bird app than Duolingo).

[mariaiscrafting]

hey! i rmbr reading smth you said about how the streamers tend to think of things as “ppl on twitter being mad,” specifically tubbo, and he was kind of talking about twitter and drama and discussions and stuff on his alt stream today about like 2h20m-ish in? the beginning of the mariokart bit? idk i’ve been thinking about ur post a lot and thought you might find it interesting

Hmm... I've been listening to this for the last few minutes and I have... several opinions lmao.

I overall agree with his sentiments, first of all. That people cannot express a single opinion without the potential of getting eviscerated on Twitter and thus, alienating half their fanbase, is annoying as fuck. If someone just wants to talk about something and is open to debate and argument and listening to other perspectives, there should be no problem. But the way MCYT works is that a huge part of their fanbase is on Twitter, where it is extremely easy for issues to get blown up and warped beyond recognition, essentially defaming the person involved. Two instances I can remember myself: one, there's Blaustoise who, as far as I can tell, is not a half-bad guy and hasn't expressed any controversial opinions before. But after he expressed that he believed Dream cheated that one, singular time, he got dragged through the mud on mcyttwt, got himself on Trending, and by the time the whole thing was said and done, you know what people were saying when paraphrasing him? "Blaustoise cornered Dream on a podcast and accused him of cheating," which was so far from the truth, and kinda fucked the guy over, audience wise. Second, there's Eret. The opinion that Eret expressed was that sometimes, prepubescent children might not know if they're ace or not. This one, single opinion was also warped and thrown to the wolves, and after getting him trending and everything, Eret antis to this day still say "Eret is aphobic." Twitter is a prime platform for the worst game of Telephone on the planet, and unfortunately, it houses the majority of the MCYT fandom. So yeah, it makes sense Tubbo would be frustrated with the inability for anyone in his streaming circle to so much as utter an opinion without being scared of getting fucked over.

Now, what I disagree with Tubbo on is... a variety of small things. First of all, I don't think he understands that where Twitter mobs come from is usually genuine frustration at oppression and ignorance, and it's annoying how streamers tend to forget that and only address the "I made part of my audience upset" side of discourse. Second of all, I don't think Tubbo realizes how much privilege he has, and just how little he is likely to be subject to any such Twitter mob if he actually had a full-on stream where he didn't simply voice throwaway opinions, but rather, listened to chat, spoke to different people, and/or researched whatever he was talking about. He's a white, cishet guy with a huge audience. He is not going to be held to the same standards as any other creator because people are harsher with their judgement when it comes to creators that don't fit that demographic, and his audience will always fall back on him to defend him. His concern is understandable, but mostly unnecessary lmfao. And third of all, I think he misunderstands why his Chat tells him to move on from things. He seems to take it as them getting offended by him bringing up certain topics, but really, they're just trying to shepherd him back to the game he's playing so he can avoid the Twitter mob lmao.

Several things I think could be done, on the part of creators, to make it easier and more okay for them to voice whatever opinions they like, without getting read to filth. First is to actually call out their audience for the practice of organizedly attacking other creators, taking quotes and paraphrases out of context, and warping minor opinions into huge issues where they should not exist. Yes, I'm calling out the likes of Dream here, which have given Twitter stans a massive ego and sense that they can do no wrong, when that is far from the truth. Second, they can set up and organize streams where they have all those necessary components to make sure they can be as open, inclusive, and educated as possible when talking about controversial things, instead of just offhandedly voicing their opinions on-stream. Because the reality is that if you are creating content in any other sense - on a podcast, news broadcast, YouTube video essay - that has to do with something heavy or controversial, you should be putting in that effort because your content goes out to a huge platform. Just because streaming is more casual does not mean you will not reap the repercussions for not tackling such subjects with the same amount of preparation and care. Third of all, stop fucking glorifying Twitter. By being so obsessed with Twitter, CCs are fueling their fandoms on that platform. Seriously, the fact that Twitter is essentially the expected place to make issues known, get topics trending, and directly interact with CCs, is what makes it such a cesspool.

[heybaetae]

i feel like i don't fit in anywhere its wild. i dont make gifs anymore but when i did, i was just 'there' i went to conventions for these shows i made gifs for but made no friends cus when i went i still felt like i didnt belong. then i got into the bts fandom & everyones so inviting but since i dnt make anything im not known here or have followers of the same interests. i cant seem to find a place on twitter cus they're so fast paced and im not that talkative & tbh they seem younger most the time. im just never able to fit in anywhere and its kinda isolating when i have these interests and ppl seem to have so many friends in these fandoms. like im rlyyyy enjoying this show right now but even when i made a post about it, i cant seem to connect with people personally. maybe im not being more forward. i barely talk to my only 2 friends. my ex was the closest person with me & i dont share that little world with them anymore. i feel like i've lost myself. idk if this make sense *sigh* its just hard to see ppl connect with each other and i feel like no matter how much we have in common i dont belong here.

hi friend ♡

first of all, thank you for trusting me enough to send this. i like to hope my inbox feels like a safe space for anyone who needs a person to confide in or to just air their feelings out. i hope just by writing this all out, you feel a little bit lighter.

secondly, i relate to a lot of what you described. listen, i’ve been doing this fandom thing for a long time on and offline, so i’ve definitely been around the block of knowing where i feel like i fit in and where i don’t. and while i wouldn’t necessarily call myself shy, i’m very introverted. i absolutely understand not being the talkative type and ultimately letting just that fact alone be what dictates whether or not you form any friendships in whichever fandom you’re trying to make them in. you are right in the sense that sometimes you do have to push yourself and be a little more forward with it. conversation starting is daunting, but that’s how we get literally everywhere, right? it’s such a simple answer, but so scary too and that’s okay.

i think online fandom spaces—especially within the last few years as the “tumblr fandom” generation slowly migrated into “stan twitter” which is, like you said, mostly dominated by much younger people in comparison and definitely not the place i’d worry too much about not fitting into because it’s a hell scape and you’re so, SO much better off not being “known” on that site unless the subject’s fandom is very small, trust me—has refigured the way a lot of us with a classic case of wallflower syndrome navigate through the communities we try to find a place in. 

now it comes with an overwhelming need to “contribute” to the community in some way, shape, or form or you’re downright invisible. of course this isn’t true and i’m not sure exactly where this train of thought came from (maybe it’s the euphoria of going viral and building up a following, knowing people will interact with your posts no matter what it is just because you’re funny, creative, talented, etc.), but it’s definitely at the root of why some of us feel isolated in a fandom nowadays and that kind of experience isn’t healthy in my opinion. you’re just setting yourself up for failure (read: cancellation) and WHO in their right mind genuinely wants that kind of pressure in return for a little attention? not me! that’s why i always try to remind myself that my metaphorical place in a fandom doesn’t have to stem from whether or not i’m contributing anything so long as it’s more “i want to do this simply because i like to and it brings me joy” and less “i feel obligated to do this in order to feel seen”. i hope that makes sense. 

you literally do not need to bring anything to the table to be included. there is always a bigger percentage of people who just exist liking that thing than people who go out of their way to show it. neither type of fan is any less. you belong where ever YOU decide to be. it’s always up to you. 

as for the making friends part? i really do wish i had the secret formula to this that would solve this issue for everyone, myself included, but i’m still figuring it out. i haven’t really broken through the loneliness of this fandom yet, but i’m honestly not in a hurry either. i really like vibing on my own here. i’m speaking from experience when i say i have been in other fandoms where i was very known. very followed. very seen. very WATCHED. very influential if i wasn’t careful with my words. it felt like a job position i could lose at any moment if i made one wrong move or voiced one wrong opinion. while i had a lot of friends and met a lot of people in real life, shared a lot of amazing experiences and made a lot of memories, that kind of toxic environment i spent years in changed how i participate in a fandom now. i’m more reserved. i’m very comfortable not being known. i’m less eager for vocalize my every thought. i seemed to think the relative popularity amongst people i shared a fandom with was gonna keep me happy, but it really didn’t. and those friendships weren’t built to last because people just...turn on you so fast. 

so. my best advice for being in a fandom these days is to find your circle of people and when you do (which you WILL), for the love of god, keep it small and keep it close. it’s so much better. take those baby steps. reach out to people, start convos, compliment someone’s work or respond to their thoughts. a lot of us are truly just circling each other aimlessly, too shy to speak up first. it’s more universal than you think.

sorry for this long rambly response that probably wasn’t very helpful. but this message struck with me because i really empathize and i’m very sorry you’re feeling this way now. it won’t last forever, that i know for sure. <3

[dainobones]

it baffles me that ppl on here still send me messages about the pokemon fandom, and more specifically the g/s fandom, like i care or have anything to contribute

so lemme just. sum it up one last time and then the anons are getting blocked, along with a couple of other semi-regular questions i'm not gonna answer

i dont write fics atm bcuz i'm busy and uninspired

part of why i'm uninspired is absolutely ppl messaging me about Drama

mostly i'm uninspired bcuz other stuff i've been writing is 1000x more interesting than anything i was writing for pkmn fandom

i left that one discord server bcuz i didnt like it

there's nothing deeper to me not liking it. i thought the place had bad vibes every time i visited, so i left

i cannot tell you anything about the ppl on the server or who runs it bcuz i literally cant remember them and to my memory, never rly knew them / was never friends with them

if you think it has bad vibes too, cool, i don't care, it's got nothing to do with me how you feel about a place that also has nothing to do with me

if i had to say any one thing that annoys me about g/s fans, it's the tendency to whine incessantly about lack of content while never contributing content or supporting what there is. THAT'S why i dont check tags any more, and yes, it's a contributing factor in my lack of interest in the ship any more. i find the hypocrisy annoying and the complaining about what's there unfair. the way ppl talk about that ship and the content for it makes me second-guess why i even like it, which is sad bcuz i've shipped it since 2000, but oh well!!! i dont rly miss it i just get frustrated when ppl remind me of all this

yes i was online harassed for years and it was horrible. there is literally no reason for anyone except me to bring it up any more tho. and no!!! it does not have anything to do with that server!!!!

i literally never think about that server unless ppl are on here asking me shit about it or telling me their grievances for god knows what reason. i cannot emphasise this enough: if we're not friends, that's your personal problem, and you need to deal with it instead of dumping it on a stranger.

"do you think ppl are parasocial with you" dont be absurd. i'm too much of a non-presence for that to be the case. i think ppl are either venting bcuz they dont know anyone else in the fandom, or they think venting their fandom frustrations will make me wanna be their friend but no, it doesn't, bcuz it's petty bullshit and i dont care

"are you going to update [insert fic]" probably not

"are you going to write [insert fic idea]" probably not

"where can i find your original writing" lol it's. not hard but i'm also not gonna tell you bcuz *gestures at vague legal things*

"why dont more ppl support your original writing??" idk. have you tried reccing it? i dont promote it more than the bare minimum requirements. in part bcuz of my personality disorder but also bcuz i dont have a reason to be invested in it being successful. no i will not explain that further, the moment anyone says something about how Publishing Industries Work ppl take it as gospel but this is a very unique and localised situation. that's as much as you'll get.

i'm also not invested in my fics being read or whatever bcuz to me fics are a low-pressure low-priority hobby and it's easier to keep it that way if there arent many ppl reading what i'm writing. it's nice when ppl do!! love it when ppl do and enjoy it and have nice things to say!!!! but i write fics just to have some fun and then post them if i think other ppl can have some fun with it too. no skin off my nose if they're not read, but also: i know other fic writers see it differently, and they are completely right and valid to feel that way!!! it's MUCH easier to write with validation & attention, if you are someone who thrives from validation & attention.

"why dont you post more" bcuz i dont have anything to say

"can i follow you on twitter" if you can find the one i actually use, sure, give a go, i'll prob deny your req unless i recognise your username

and inb4

"why dont you just remake" that.... seems like more effort than this place is worth? and mostly i dont get this stuff it's like. once or twice a month and then i get annoyed

"why dont you turn off ask" bcuz mostly theyre fine and old friends/mutuals checking in and i mean. it's not that i dont LIKE attention/validation i just dont NEED it

"why are you being so rude" i'm trying to scare ppl off....... duh.....

"why is this so unreadable" i thought about formatting it better but god that's more effort than i wanna give like. just writing this is enough, and that's an effort born out of frustrating from almost two years of these messages

ANYWAY GOOD NIGHT

[molusca]

after I sent that I refreshed you page and saw another answer you shared about the problems with race in the fandom. we're finally talking about the issues, now would be the time to air out and problematic stuff about race. if people are going onto poc's posts and hating on their stuff, absolutely call them out, make them blow up. I don't want to support someone like that either. I'm personally not aware of "popular bad takes" and I've never seen anyone bring up race issues regarding hcs (I know Lance as a farmer is in poor taste). I know it's exhausting, and people shouldn't have to educate others on the problematic shit they do but also, there could be people who just genuinely don't know something is racist. I didn't know "lizard people" was anti semitic until recently. I know of at least one "big" kl creator who think Taylor's work and others are problematic, why not encourage them to make a big post about issues in the fandom? they said they don't want to talk about it anymore but isn't it their duty to shed light on the issues because they have a large following? that's your argument for Taylor and black issues 🤷🏻‍♂️ - 🦛

if people are going onto poc's posts and hating on their stuff, absolutely call them out, make them blow up

the person who i saw being racist on twitter was reported and the people attacked were supported by their mutuals. i dont know those people because i use twitter more for brazilian stuff so i only saw a few tweets about it and kinda watched from afar, idk much more about the situation. a black artist was attacked and they said they have been treated like that in the fandom for 4 years so they are stepping back bc well. its tiring.

I've never seen anyone bring up race issues regarding hcs

idk which social media u use more, on twitter theres more people in the fandom in case u go there. but try to follow more poc bc they talk about this type of stuff. some of them are also open to talk about it but dont ask me for names bc i really dont know ppl there, i just know that generally some poc are fine to talk about this stuff and educate while others not. but you probably can learn a lot by looking at their accounts and stuff like that, not only in fandom but you know activists too stuff like that. bc learning about racism then you can see by yourself racism in fandom works too

there could be people who just genuinely don't know something is racist

i know, but poc have to deal with racism from day 1 of their lives, so they have every right to not pat white people in the back and say its okay if they didnt know something is racist. we have to recognize the position we are on society

why not encourage them to make a big post about issues in the fandom? they said they don't want to talk about it anymore but isn't it their duty to shed light on the issues because they have a large following?

because people get attacked for talking about this type of thing, and well, no one wants to get attacked over it. the issues in the fandom have been going on for 4 years, and it doesnt start or end in the vld fandom. its everywhere, so its impossible to make a big post and solve issues. bc people arent gonna listen, and its going to continue everywhere else. you said “dont want to talk anymore” so i assume they did talk at some point? idk but if thats the case it may be that they are tired of not being listened. i have not been in the vld fandom for 4 years but i know many people here have and they have talked about the problems, and it keeps going on because people dont listen. people left the fandom bc no one listen when they point out the problems.

also, minorities have every right of not wanting to talk about issues bc like i said people get attacked over it and their safety comes first. but since they live with this on their daily lifes, personally, i always see them talking at some point about this type of things (for example i dont talk about stuff like biphobia all the time but its impossible for me to never talk about it etc). but calling out big creators is another thing, its very hard. look at this situation, how it turned out. thats why theres not going to happen a big call out and big issues in the fandom will be talked about. all we can do is listen and try to notice by yourselfs the creators who are harmful and not support them ig

[unproduciblesmackdown]

let's see those Prime Numbers for the ask meme

2) favorite albums?

well i was Ready for kesha’s album Warrior to come out in iiii think it was the end of 2012 or early 2013?? i snuck out to that tour in dc that summer also. totally solid album and it was fun to have something so fun during a totally Not Fun period lol. i was also pretty into owl city at the exact same time lmao, that’s Blatantly for when you’re depressed lol...and i also eventually saw that guy on tour when a new album came out in 2015, and that was fun too, and was Enjoying Myself a factor in the tipping point of “ah jeez i gots 2 get outta here” that i had in the next month? maybe! and uhhh i listened a lot to the phoenix te amo album. that one wasnt tied to anything at all but i have heard it So much. super short and also rock solid and relistenable. and then here we are and the bmc obcr is a gift to the world b/c a) it exists and b) Cuz It All Slaps and c) it’s so fun to either sing or dance along, or cry along if it’s the agtikbi reprise and d) lgw... and e) all the eternal, well-mixed wroland vocals

3) favorite memes?

oh god lmao idk......real earlier 10s stuff was the I Say Hey he-man meme, and the “that really rustles my jimmies” meme which was real underrated......there’s been plenty of Memes where i’ve been like “this one is funny to me Every Time” but of course now looking back on it it’s like. what’s a meme??? Vine

(skipping 5 & 11 cuz that’s the Entirety of someone else’s ask and i don’t wanna just have to scrap theirs completely and i’ll get to it next!!)

11) favorite fanarts?

you know what, there’s continuously been a ton of amazing fanart where i’m like, i’m so glad i’m seeing this, & this is Artistic Fuel, and marge simpson anime has really been just this Standout Experience lmao like......idk for as Inspiring as it is, there’s only a couple things i’ve drawn that are Directly inspired, but i just flip for it all the time and like, it’s supremely expressive and like, comics that aren’t chronological but more like a Collage Of a Moment / Concept which i think is super cool and also i love when stuff reminds me that it doesn’t have to look ~super cleaned up~ to look great.

13) favorite people you know?

oh god this one really got out of control lol i started like, talking about everyone ever from this past decade. so for Convenience i’m interpreting this as “people *i* know, but they don’t know me” so that i can cheat and say will roland, voted person of the year 2019. by extension, essential supporting crew who helped us reach this point, like john simpkins or joe iconis. leave it at that!! it’s 5am and you know i’m not lying. who knew where going “wow, This guy” in late 2018 would have so much Value.

17) a fandom you wish more people were in/you had more people to talk to about?

oof hmm.......amnesia tdd didn’t really have a “fandom” even though it obviously got a lot of attention, it’dve been fun if it had though lol. it’s tricky to answer this one cuz i always prefer like, smaller fandoms and/or finding the Niche or some other way of just like, interacting with a small corner of things, so i’m never like wow god damn wish i’d been absolutely in the thick of it with this thing. i’ve been in Corners n Niches and it’s been fine by me, really

19) a fandom that you had the best time in?

HMM lol.........marble hornets sure was fun but like, a lot of that was just the content itself and not necessarily The Fan Experience, tho i sure got a lot out of it in a ton of ways. i mean tbh that’s true of each thing i’ve really Gotten Into majorly, i go hard af and then walk out the other side with these #connections or #experiences like whoa where’d these come from lol!! but really like, overall, i’m probably having the best time right now. the “fandom” is basically just our agenda lmao but like i said i’m always having the best time when it’s a pretty niche deal, And the sheer variety of Contents n Characters to draw from here is super nice, and the fact that it’s like, oh yeah and i’m finally recognizing this should’ve-been-obvious entire Passionne i’ve had since always, and that’s great too, and like, also just having the Variety Of Live / Current Unfoldings that go down.....like, everyone havin fun with the Joe Iconis Xmas Xtrav was entirely great. and just the Engagement level is basically the best, cuz like there’s the times where maybe i’ll get a zillion notes and that’s definitely fun in its own way but i always enjoy just the way smaller amount of ppl who are Particularly Enthusiastic, and like, there’s times where like, maybe i’m *technically* in this larger circle of ppl but like, totally more of like a Tangent or peripheral to that circle or whatever lol........this feels like a really solid balance of like, being sorta in this orbit of people in a chill way, but also definitely the direct interactions Existing, which is always important lol but hasn’t always been a constant throughout my Fandom Experiences at all

23) who were you at the beginning of this decade?

2009-2010 was a real distinct year lol i was in my second year of college in the middle of my teens, when i’d hardly really been getting to Explore My Interests Freely up to that point and still wasn’t, but all of a sudden it’s like goddamn i have to figure out my major???? and i’m like, obviously in the middle of only just now Really getting to figure out my identity in this deeper and more genuine way, thanks to being lucky enough to Live On Campus and be away from home like, 2/3 of the year, but i was just like, oh god i’m in Stress Hell now all the time cuz like. i’m trying to figure out my whole thing and what my ~Career~ should be and i just have no idea but am like, trying super hard all the time lol it was not successful and i was just really stressed about it all the time. i was def quieter back then.....pretty lonely at the time, i did not get into mh and gain the presence of any Online Friends until late 2010, and i hadn’t yet been sort of accepted by a small faction of theatre people via my roommate’s connections.....i wasn’t at all Out yet, and was def In Progress of figuring it all out.....i didn’t have nearly the Self-Esteem i have now lmao, it was Not a great time and in a lot of ways ‘09-’10 was the start of a downturn into Worse Than Usual Times, though in Other ways it was definitely an upturn lol like. the latter related to stuff that was important to me / who i am, the former tied to the situations i was in and the godawful morale that resulted

29) a time when the worst case scenario happened but you pulled through?

well by the end of 2012 i had my Wrath Parent deluxe mad at me big time, AND i was stuck at home all of thee time with that (not at all hours but. every day.) it was terrible!!! tf was going on in 2013, cuz that shit was definitely like, a gross blur of a lot of indistinct misery. and then, relatedly, when it was so shitty in 2015 that i was like fantastic, i am so officially sick of this i’m outta here. i revisited some Misery Posts from that period lately for someone stranger on twitter’s project or something, and boy i was having a bad time Summer Of ‘15 lol, things not getting better at home And a job that was so shitty that it was like..................bye. lol. and then i spent a year living out of a minivan. which was real lucky in ways b/c like. infinitely better than if i had not had that minivan. and when that broke down i was also then lucky enough to have this friend who was relatively nearby who’d also been willing to just like, set me up to Not have to ask the lgbt center where that trans-friendly forest zone a couple cities over was. nothing as dramatic as it could’ve been, fortunately

31) a time you were scared?

hmmm when leaving The Parents Home overnight, that was intimidating. bit of completely jumping into the unknown there, and also like, when you spend your lifetime assuming that Someone’s Arbitrary Wrath will be uponst you always, it’s hard to shake that sense of dread and doom, like ah jeez i am really potentially bringing hell on myself here........and like i mentioned with Start Of The Decade, there was just a ton of fear there all the time lol, trying to figure out virtually overnight The Whole Of Who I Am And What I Want when i’d only just even gotten to start......also i wanna say i maybe came out in 2011?? and i sort of also felt obligated to come out to my parents also (plus i think i was giving them like, one last chance to surprise me and be decent and kind of Grow Up themselves even tho i was the like, 16 y.o.) which yknow, kids you do not have to come out to anyone at all. someone was talking the other day abt how they didn’t think lgbtq “discourse” had evolved as much as you’d hope over the past decade, but idk about that, it's only a little bit of a wildly complex topic, and for starters Online Trans “Discourse” of a decade back was wayyyyyy in a vastly different place than it is now, leaps and strides really. so the way to ~really~ do it was presented kind of more rigidly i think. anyways i did it via email and was incredibly stressed to even open the reply a couple days later lol......which ended up being really weird and vague, and then there was a phone call where no one brought it up, and the only result was increased ire and resentment :( ........and then there was still like, cops encounters! near or not-as-bad-as-they-could’ve-been vehicular collisions! but tbh generally my reaction to the latter was underwhelming, except for one particular time when i was a passenger and also tense af for the rest of the ride. that’s it for Immediate fear really lol......oh wait one time i was at this decent sized Convention Panel Event and when i’m nervous i can Only talk more (it’s possible!!) and i snuck into line for the q&a and Right when i got to the mic (intimidating) they were like oop we’re low on time, lightning round!! :’] that was obviously more just a crapton of l’anxiete

37) a fashion that fell out of style that you wish would make a resurgence?

were Gladiator sandals this decade? the strappy deals that like, went up the ankles / calves? that was in fashion for a year or two and i’m into it. i like sandals and that kind of drama

41) something you learned a lot that not a lot of other people might know about?

i don’t know that i learned way a lot of anything that’s real in-depth knowledge and niche lore.........i have learned Nothing

43) an important relationship (of any kind) you had?

i had???? lmao well either way let’s say current relationships count and like, pretty much everyone in my Sphere i value a lot! i never like, have or have had a ~close~ ring of ppl around me lol like i thought it was lucky if i talked to someone Every Day (and not at all the Usual thing) and now it’s more likely that i talk to two people every day and maybe that sounds sarcastic but it’s not at all lol. i know my social stats aren’t impressive but i so appreciate what i get to enjoy and have. and other Connections might be way more like, we are friendly acquaintances, we talk on rare occasions, we haven’t talked at all in ages, we talk but only to trade cute pics of cats, Etc etc, but i seriously do appreciate all of everyone who’s cool who i get to interact with in any way and like, be in each other’s spheres and Not just like, absolutely on nobody’s radar. also obviously soph you are here in that list in case i wasn’t implying it good enough lol it is 5am and god knows deciphering what i say at any time can be its own challenge.....ur Epic Highs and Lows of bmc 3.0 is so good lmao

[golbrocklovely]

Twitter is trying to cancel SnC yet again I see.

If I were SnC I would literally just delete all my twitter profiles except for their channels twitter which I'd then use ONLY for promoting when new videos drop. Just so the twitter fans can learn that they aren't as important as they seem to think they are because those boys are nearly at 12 million subscribers on youtube, twitter is but a mere handful of that subscriber count so it really wouldn't matter if they all decided to stop watching.

(plus the video they're all angry at is actually performing very well, it's already at 2M views on just day 2 of releasing. This suggests a lot of the fandom may not share twitters opinions...)

i don't see snc deleting their twitters, but i do see them continuing to not use them and just letting them sit dormant bc that side of the fandom is too dramatic.

i've said my peace on this 100 times over, but i don't mind saying it again bc it keeps happening and no one over there is getting it lol

not that i'm telling them either since most of them i have blocked or they have me blocked lmao

that side of the fandom has cried wolf one too many times and now expects snc to still listen to them. and look, back in 2020/21, maybe that would have happened. bc twitter held a lot more stock back then. but not anymore. they thought they could call out snc for every little thing and expect them to always listen and for all of the fandom to agree. and reality is that just won't fly anymore.

were there genuine reasons to call them out before in the past (and even now)? sure. i'm not here to argue that. but what i am saying is once everyone jumped over the line in the sand and started getting mean and calling them out for nonsense things, idk what you expected to happen.

it's one thing to complain about content and what's going on in it or that it's taking too long to get new content out. it's another thing to bitch about their gfs and say they shouldn't date them, or in general to bring up personal shit.

where our input starts and ends is content related, and that's it. anyone that thinks they have a say in what snc do in their own personal lives are delulu. it doesn't matter if you believe you have their best interest in mind, your input is unwanted. that's just reality.

also i think a lot of ppl on twitter think they speak for everyone in the fandom but they fail to realize that this fandom has 12 mil ppl in it (roughly). even if one of the louder fans on there has a 1000 followers, that's not even 1% of the entire fandom. that's not even .01%. that's how little the amount of ppl you speak for.

my thing is, all of this complaining and drama started in january, around colby's bday, when the pics of them with the girls leaked. and since then, this fandom and that side in particular hasn't shut up since. and look, obviously not everything is about the girls and not everyone is even complaining about the girls. i'm not trying to cast wide nets here and assume. but… be honest: yall have been complaining for WEEKS about a variety of things, ranging from them having gfs that might be clout chasers to snc not talking about a genocide, and somehow…….. i'm supposed to take any of that seriously??? snc are supposed to take that seriously??? those are two VERY different things, no?

but hey, you wanna be upset at snc for whatever reason, be my guest. i'm not here to stop you. do whatever you want. but at what point do you just accept that snc aren't gonna meet your demands and thus your only option is to leave?? just curious. and are you okay with the fact that just bc you leave doesn't mean anyone is gonna miss you, including snc? harsh reality is snc don't know who you are, and that's not bc you don't deserve to be known - they just realistically don't know you, and you leaving isn't gonna do anything.

but if you aren't enjoying your time here, leave. it's better in the long run to pay attention to something that actually brings you happiness rather than stick around and be miserable.

[valeriemperez]

@dowhatyoulike said:

I just had to explain SB and their existence to my GF and it was so cute. All that innocence and pure WA love... Nothing compares. 💕💗

😘 You taught me well.

Aww, that’s adorable and funny! Glad your gf has such good taste. 😊

Hi. Not sure if you remember me but I'm the same anon who asked you about dealing with hate. Well I would like some more advice please. How do you deal with the "cliches" in the fandom. I found that there's a lot of ppl even in the CP and WA fandom that don't get along. There is so much drama between ppl everywhere but Twitter is the worst! Any tips on having online fandom friends in this culture?

I do remember! And cliques in fandom can be tiring, I totally get you. Honestly, the way I deal with it is mostly to just talk with people I trust in DMs and share theories and thoughts there without worrying what people on the timeline are saying. I never go looking for subtweets or sub...posts about myself, I just try to face it head on if I happen to see something. 

If you just retweet and post what you like and focus on what makes you happy, people who are drawn to that energy will reach out and you’ll quickly know who you want to be friends with and who’s going to create drama for you.

Why does the West*llen fandom hate Harrison W*lls so much?

Ummm... I can’t speak for the fandom at large, but I don’t hate him. I think Tom’s a great actor and both Thawne and Harry were great characters, but I feel some resentment towards his character(s). Just because it’s so clear to me how he gets stuff that Cisco/Iris/Joe/etc. don’t get and will never get. Plus the reinvention of his character every season means he has to get a new introduction that takes up more time.

 But generally I enjoy him, if that makes sense, especially when he’s with Jesse. The moments that frustrate me are mostly when I see Cisco being treated as a prop for his storyline (like in S4). 

What do you think about fans saying CP is ruining her career for not going to the TCA? I saw that Zack Stentz had to jump in to defend her. My thoughts is people need to chill out over what CP does on her time off.

I didn’t see who said that, but TCA is definitely not making or breaking Candice’s career. She went the first year, they totally ignored her and didn’t show her category onscreen. I think she learned her lesson after that, which is that TCAs are utterly pointless unless your network has paid for you to win.

And in general you’re right, it’s none of our business how Candice handles her career. That’s literally her business.

Sorry to bring up the Grant drama again, but he is really trying my patience this week. I know this is far from the first time he's posted a photo from that godforsaken photo shoot with Tyler Shields. But after he's already aware A) how SB fans perceive him posting things like that, and B) how CP fans are upset with him right now + how CP fans feel about DP? I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish anymore.

Maybe he was trying to create a situation where he’d have to promise a CP photoshoot lmao. Or maybe he just doesn’t think things through.

I like GG and if people want to defend his rl with CP that's fine bc she likes him and we know how she acts when she doesn't click with somebody but I wish they stopped babying him. He doesn't defend CP because he's not comfortable addressing the topic. He gets madder when people point it out ESPECIALLY if he's already in a fragile state, like dealing with people bodyshaming him. It has nothing to do with higher-ups stopping him bc of the reasons you mentioned AND bc CP does call out the racists

Yup, he doesn’t want to address it and he really doesn’t want people calling him racist because he won’t address it.

I'm kinda shaking my head at the hypocrisy here. These anons reportedly love West*llen as much as I do, yet they're willfully ignoring the fact that West*llen is a time travel ship in the comics!

LOL, I guess some people think it’s weird that two people’s time periods could overlap. But it’s not like they would overlap, so IDK why anyone’s mind would go there.

[clarz-cc-archive]

answered June 26, 2020

Q: what are your thoughts on the viability of twitter as the long-term hub for fandom? i've been on twt in various fandoms for 7 yrs now and my general assessment is that it brings out the worst in many ppl. even apart from the terrible mass harassment and dog piling (which only seems to be getting worse, tbh), even the culture of "chill" twt often seems to encourage a lack of empathy or compassion, an assumption of bad faith, and a sort of generalized hyperbole that can lead to a flattening or removal of nuance. this was sparked by an interaction i saw play out earlier that went very badly bc of how everyone approached it when, from what i could tell, there was no actual disagreement btwn any of them. idk. ultimately, i don't know where else fandom would go that wouldn't replicate many of these problems to a greater or lesser extent. but i feel like i've seen you touch on some of this before and i wondered if you had any thoughts.

A: bts fandom is my first one on twitter, so it's always hard for me to separate what of my experience is fandom-specific vs platform-specific; my acct was created in 2016 but i literally had never used it until i started using it for bts at the end of 2018 because it seemed like all the cool people i would wanna be friends with were on twitter (the vibe of the bts fandom on tumblr, which is where i was previously, seems p different to me and i couldn't rly find anyone who was talking about them in the ways i wanted to talk about them!) i think there are advantages and disadvantages to twitter tbh, but i can only really compare it to tumblr, since that's the only other platform i've used for fandom (i was around and reading fic in fandom during livejournal in the early 2000s, but i only lurked, so i don't have any experience with creating content or interacting with ppl there from which to draw.)

i've found that twitter is a much easier place to get to know people, since replies to threads are such an easy way of joining a conversation, so i made friends here much faster than on tumblr, but i think the simultaneous disadvantage of replies is that it makes it easier for people to dogpile and that other ppl feel totally fine with barging into your mentions when you don't know them with some kind of shitty hot take lmao. twitter is a terrible place to try to have any kind of discourse too tbh, bc the fact that you have to put things in threads makes it WAY easier for people to qRT only one part of a thread and take that out of context. there's also a thing i see on twitter way more than on tumblr, which i think comes from this drawback of threads, where when discourse is happening people will agree with some small point you made in one tweet of a thread and run w it in a direction that's kind of extreme, so points that were originally v nuanced will steadily get boiled down through ppl's agreement or disagreement into these weird extreme hard stances, and the convo IMMEDIATELY veers off in 400 different directions. i think this happened on tumblr too, it's kind of the nature of online discourse, but it was at least slower, yknow?

ultimately, whenever twt blows up i frequently see ppl being like "oh god i miss [tumblr/lj/etc]," and like i don't know abt any of y'all but i remember shit being JUST as bad on those platforms lmao! they were hellscapes, just in slightly different ways! i think fandom will prob move on from twitter, bc fandom seems to move en masse every 5-10 years anyway, but i also think it's important for reasonable people and experienced fans in these communities to keep having convos abt how to build community and how to treat others online, bc fandom will ALWAYS have new uninitiated people coming in. the optimist in me hopes that if i behave in a way that i think is fair and kind online, maybe it will encourage others to do the same! it's all i can do!

[golbrocklovely]

i personally don’t care what influencers or celebrities say about any social or political issue most of them are dumb and don’t know what they’re talking about, but tbh i understand where people who want them to speak up are coming from obviously no one is expecting influencers or celebrities to actually go fight in the war and stop it lol it’s about spreading the word using their influence to spread information about what’s happening most of us don’t watch the news but we watch YT and insta stories and tiktoks etc they have an insane amount of influence that’s why brands pay them thousands and thousands of dollars (millions if they’re celebrities) just to talk about their products for 3 seconds lmao and people want them to use that influence for something good for once instead of always selling us shit we don’t need. remember when Taylor Swift influenced 2 million people to go vote just because she posted one insta story! so asking them to speak up about important issues can lead to positive outcomes because of their huge influence on society, i personally don’t care but i completely understand why people want them to speak about it, it’s really not that crazy

respectfully, that's the problem tho. idk how old you are, so i don't want to come across rude or anything. but a random entertainer's job is not to inform you on the news going on around the world. do your own research. sure, snc talking about palestine would bring *maybe* a couple more eyes to it. but you would also have to be living under a rock to not know what's happening in gaza. you would have to be purposefully ignoring what's happening over there to not know what's going on.

not to mention, but it's not even the only genocide taking place rn. but it's the only one fans are demanding they speak on.

and i don't expect anyone to use their voice. if you can, you should. but as for content creators, idc what they have to say on international news. snc aren't political commentators. if they were, then i would get telling them to talk about palestine. but they aren't. and it's not even about smarts. most ppl, educated or not, can understand a genocide is a bad thing. but again, no one should rely on content creators for news.

how about we word it like this: if a cc had a musically account, don't expect them to be cnn. sound good? lmao jk

and actual celebrities are a lot different than content creators. taylor swift is known globally which is why her word matters. she reaches ears that snc couldn't reach in their wildest dreams. that's why her saying something matters to some extent. but even then, if ppl don't want to speak on a topic, they don't have to.

i get to some degree why fans want snc to say something, but i think the issue i have is that this is SUCH a chronically online take. who the fuck is requesting snc say something? twitter fans???? the same ones that bitch every other day about snc's gfs. rrrriiiiiiigggghhhhhttt. respectfully to them, idgaf what they have to say on anything, but especially world news.

and like i've said before, a lot of this is clearly misplaced anger. ppl's real anger is with our government giving our tax dollars to fund the idf. but it's easier to bitch at a random content creator to say something, as if in the grand scheme of things that's gonna change anything currently happening.

(also sorry if i come across rude in this. none of that is directed at you anon, this is more towards the general fandom getting on my nerves once again)