#idk what title he'd take on maaaybe Black Bat but torn abt that bc that's Cass's thing....

[tonyglowheart]

okay the more I think about this, the more I like this idea

So, premise is that I'm not sold on Tim as Red Hood in reverse batfam AUs, since like if any of them Get why Batman can't kill (both as like the symbol/title bc otherwise GPD couldn't be friendly or tolerant of the Bat as an official stance, and as like a personal line for Bruce), it'd be Tim imo.

so I'm thinking, it'd be interesting if his death wasn't caused by Joker (passe, tired, society has progressed past the need for Joker), and instead the second Batlad's death was caused by a freak accident in the middle of a Riddler scheme. It's the kind of thing where, yeah Riddler caused them to be in the situation, but the death itself isn't *really* Riddler's fault. It's tragic and a lot of blame all around and a lot of ppl blaming themselves. Riddler retires from villainy afterwards out of grief and guilt tho.

Years later, when Jason is the new Batlad (I think he still tried to steal the wheels off the Batmobile, but he gave Bruce a much-needed wakeup call when he like hit him with a tire iron and shouted how everyone on the streets knows to avoid the Bat now since Batlad died, everyone knows he's gotten more brutal and less discerning and almost as bad as the villains, or even worse bc at least some of the rogues abide by honor amongst thieves/the street folk. etc etc Batman takes him to Bruce who takes him in, Jason is suspicious bc why would the Bat take him to Bruce of all ppl even tho it's an open secret the Bat is funded by Wayne, maybe even a rumor that the Bat IS Bruce Wayne, and he finds the Cave and extorts Bruce into taking him on as Batlad, partly so Jason can also give back and partly so he can keep an eye on Bruce, the big dummy)-

But years later, a new.... villain? vigilante? antihero? emerges, calling himself Enigma. He sets up these elaborate tests of morality for bad guys - not necessarily rogues but like. corrupt politicians, dirty cops, biased judges or prosecutors, etc. - wherein they're given an elaborate scheme, kind of like a Saw trap ig but it's always fair, there's always a chance for the person to make a moral choice/personal sacrifice that shows they're more than just corrupt or self-serving. Batman thinks it's Edward Nygma, come out of retirement to dabble in the antihero field, and tracks him down- but no, he is retired, and has been growing his business designing and selling escape room designs for years now. He has no clue who this new guy is or what his deal is. So back to square one.

The first couple times, this new Engima guy is pretty good at diverting Batman from interfering and his schemes go off, more often to the detriment/death of the guy being tested- tho a couple times it did work and the ppl in it came out changed. Traumatized, ofc lol, but like with a change in perspective and priority. But eventually, Batman starts wising up to the diversions, and eventually it's revealed that Enigma is Tim. And, well, the clues WERE there for Bruce to see, if he'd just seen them.

I think this works w Tim not being able to fully return to the fold, bc like having died himself he knows just how incentivizing for personal change the threat of real actual death can be. He may not be setting out to kill people, but he's also not averse to setting up situations where they may well die. Maybe as he starts returning more to the fold, he pivots to being sort of Oracle-like, where he deals more with information and giving the Batfam tip-offs and leads or info support, in addition to like patrolling on the ground maybe. But like, patrolling wouldn't be his main gig, I feel like he'd become sort of information mastermind/broker, the way Jason took on being like a mob boss so he could control the trade better to prevent kids from getting involved, etc.

But anyway, for me I feel like this works as a concept better, where Tim is the one who died and came back and then occupies a sort of Batfam adjacent but unable to bring himself back fully into the fold concept, vs a straight "Tim is Red Hood" concept.