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thecoolerliauditore · 3 months ago

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Very Long Post about Flower Husbands, Interpretation and Character vs Content Creator

This is a toxic flower husbands post. Btw.

I'm not sure when or why it happened but somewhere between limlife and the 24th joelshipping discourse cycle, "flower husbands is toxic" became a mainstream opinion on both here and traffictwt, usually sourcing Scott's ingame words and actions as evidence.

This interpretation has existed within the fandom for a fairly long time, although the words "toxic" and "abuse" were often omitted. Here's one example of a popular post that implied FH was less than ideal for Jimmy.

This does not mean the interpretation was widely accepted, however - hell, I even put this under a cut and warning for a reason. For every toxic FH believer that comes crawling out of the woodwork there comes another post defending their legacy.

For the record, despite what some threads on twt I've read seem to imply: There is nothing morally wrong with liking a mcyt ship regardless of what discomforts other people see in it. There is no explicit "wrong" way to interpret the series. There is no canon. It's fandom shit. It's not that serious.

However, I'm unfortunately abnormal about this series and possibly mcyt as a whole. So I'm forced to grapple with the fact that most non-toxic flower husbands posts seem to either self-contradict or come off as purposefully trying to incite some sort of culture war. As such, here's a list of common arguments I see proposed against the toxic flower husbands interpretation and why I personally don't find them convincing:

The CC Side of Things

Alot of anti-toxic flower husbands posts will accuse toxic flower husbands fans of disliking Scott, the content creator IRL guy, and often imply the interpretation is born out of homophobia -- usually through some variation of the phrase that the interpretation villainzes "the only openly gay CC in the series"

I take issue with this. While Scott is the only homosexual CC in the series, Cleo and Martyn have both been here since 3L and are both very openly queer. Gem has also since joined. You could argue that Scott is The Gayest but that's opening a can of worms in terms of queer discourse I don't think I want to go touching anytime soon.

Even if he was the Only Queer CC In the Series, applying different standards of fanon to Scott just because he is gay feels.. wrong to me. In the same way it's often argued that Jimmy does not need to be babied from his friendship dynamic, Scott too is a grown man who can simply choose to not look at fanart/fanfic if it upsets him, which from what I have personally observed, he hasn't shown any sign of feeling "uncomfortable" by more intimidating or villainous portrayals in the past.

Here's an example of him liking my art that did not paint him in a completely morally good light.

Why can't gay people be calculating? Controlling? Abusive? Why are we applying a higher standard of morality to the gay CC when the rest of the fandom is having the time of their life calling Grian a homophobe, a murderer, calling Scar an arsonist, calling Martyn a loser and pathetic, so on and so forth. Is telling a story about an abusive gay relationship any more "problematic" than telling a story about an abusive straight relationship?

I don't want to imply anything about peoples intentions but it feels sometimes, to me, that the "homophobia" card is being played out of some obligation to protect Scott and his brand rather than out of genuine concern for homophobia in the fandom -- because then, I ask, where is that energy for critiquing the homophobic humour prevalent in CC circles?

I've certainly heard Jimmy make jokes about Scott's sexuality in videos before. Where's the breakdowns of the infamous "I am a straight man and would like to be represented as such" incident from Pirates? Where's that energy for referring to shipping as a "bit" or Etho "gagging" at fanart of him and Bdubs?

I'd even go to argue, in terms of homophobic caricatures, Martyn and Iskall are both often more akin to the classic "gay guy in love with you who won't take no for an answer" stereotype than Scott has been. Martyn at least we know is queer, does it simply not matter in his case? Despite the fact that Martyn is very much more villainized than Scott is, to the point where his Limlife win is often portrayed as maniacal and cackling rather than with the solemn acceptance of Scott's LL win or the heartbreak and regret of Grian's 3L win? Please know that I personally Do Not find these portrayals homophobic (although the Iskall side of things has peeved me in the past), I'm just questioning why homophobia in the fandom seems to start and end with one guy only.

In addition: "internalized homophobia" is certainly a thing, but the vast majority of toxic FH fans in my circle at least are very much gay. We're on Tumblr. Fork found in kitchen. I've seen more than one person express that Scott's behaviour in one or several of the seasons was reminiscent of a toxic or abusive ex, or reminded them of some other trauma. It just seems unkind to me to claim "homophobia" and then turn and tell very gay people talking about their very gay experiences that they are somehow The Problem.

Jimmy Likes It, Though

Often in response to toxic flower husbands posts, people will cite the many times Jimmy has said in the past that he actively requests to be bullied, as part of his youtuber persona, since he finds it funny.

I've always found this kind of strange, since unlike the homophobia claims which 99% of the time are unambiguously about the content creators, this is often said in response to people talking about the series as a story with characters first and foremost.

While the area of interpretation differs for all of us, most people do not choose to include behind-the-scenes youtube talk as part of their storyline, since this detail changes Jimmy's character drastically and impacts the tone of the series overall. So what, they were dropped into a death game arena and Jimmy... told everyone they should bully him, cus he thought it'd be funny? Offscreen, with no interactions or monologue in the series itself even alluding to it? It's kind of awkward to work in and there's really no reason to if what you are invested in is viewing the series as essentially an ultra meta theatre performance.

Now, I personally do work in some out-of-series material into my headcanons and interpretation, so let's say that Is a canon part of Jimmy's character -- maybe he knew the group beforehand and this was their established dynamic, or he simply offscreened it all. Now we have to deal with the fact that this is interpretation and the unreliable narrator aspect of the series.

Jimmy (the character) might've asked for this, but under what circumstances? Why does he want this? Is this really healthy behaviour or is it self-destructive? I never see this explored and instead "Jimmy says it's okay" is treated as word of god, which I find to be painful to deal with when it comes to this series (I'll get to this later).

Even if we throw out the character side of things completely, there are perfectly valid issues to have with this dynamic. I've seen people debating the ethics of presenting this type of humour to a young impressionable audience, I've seen people who find it upsetting because it reminds them of their own toxic friendships. CCs have no authority here, Jimmy does not decide where peoples discomfort starts and ends.

I admit this is a far reach, but indulge me and imagine for a second if the roles were switched and the homophobic jokes about Scott were what was leaned in to but Scott claimed he "liked being bullied". Would that be okay too?

People are Allowed to Dislike the Real Guy, it's Okay

There are plently of reasons to dislike CC!Scott that aren't rooted in homophobia, I can assure you.

Let's put it this way: Scott does not have to read this post if he doesn't want to. In fact, he'd have to actively go out of his way to see it in the first place. The fanfic writers are not calling him an abuser in his youtube comments section. This fandom bullshit is not clogging his notifications.

I don't dislike CC!Scott, I don't love him either but I think he's just kind of your average kind of a loser youtuber guy. But even if someone truly did find him to be the most abhorrent human being to walk the earth, talking about it on tumblr should not hurt him. You often see reminders that Jimmy is a grown man who can speak up if he finds things in videos hurtful, and I'd go on to argue that the same logic is never given to Scott who is, also, a grown man who can control his internet usage.

It's all just Minecraft and jokes

The most buzzkill of all rebuttals, in my opinion, is this argument that toxic flower husbands is "taking it too seriously" and that they are just "friends playing Minecraft".

Like when people bring up Jimmy's behind the scenes request, this confuses me because it is brought up 99% of the time to rebut posts that treat the series as a storyline rather than a youtube playthrough. You can't have the grief of Scott losing his husband and Grian's despaired suicide and Pearl's sanity slippage and still acknowledge that it is all "friends playing minecraft".

In fact I'd even argue flower husbands is pretty non-toxic if you look at it Purely from a friends playing Minecraft perspective, but that is never the case. Scott's grief over Jimmy's death is treated with utmost seriousness, but Scott hitting Jimmy for not listening to him or wanting to "whittle him down to nothing" never is. It's this pick-and-choose that drives me insane more than anything else.

In addition to this, while I might be mistaken, it seems like most FH fans are not super accepting of RPF so I wonder what the intent is in the first place.

Furthermore, I do find it odd when it seems like the issue is that abuse specifically is "taking it too seriously" in a series where murder is pretty much the main theme. Adultery is mentioned multiple times in Double Life. Martyn even says the words "toxic relationship" in Double Life regarding himself and Cleo. It's clearly something that is referenced directly in the series and not any darker than what is already commonly accepted in fanon, so I don't understand why it's such a taboo and gets hit with the "no fun allowed" stick more than Scar being a cannibal serial killer.

With the same logic, I could argue that Scott was serious when he said Jimmy was useless, redundant, etc. and joking when he said he was sad his husband died but. I don't do that. Because that'd be insane

But Scott Loved Jimmy

Onto the stuff that's more purely in-universe, the argument is more uncommon now but I used to see alot of claims that flower husbands couldn't have been toxic because Scott "loved" Jimmy, usually citing the positive interactions the two do have throughout Third Life.

I think this is kind of difficult to talk about because, to me, it comes from a genuine misunderstanding of how abusive relationships work and what they look like. I won't lecture the reader on the theory behind abusive relationships and the trauma bonding cycle but I will say that the good does not balance out the bad and sometimes, context is severely lacking.

E.g. the cake. Late in the series Scott bakes a cake for Jimmy and hides it for him to find. This is a moment that I think is fascinating because it showcases both Scott's genuine care for Jimmy and the sadism he gets out of Jimmy's suffering at the same time. Jimmy is actively afraid of the cake, says to Scott that he thinks it's a trap and tries to get Scott to try it instead because Scott was still on green. Scott simply laughs and pushes Jimmy to try it, later mocking Jimmy for being scared at all.

Scott not taking Jimmy's fear seriously in this scene always seems to get cut out, or is paired with the usual insistence that it's okay because it's a "joke", and the cake itself is what is focused on.

Long story short: Abusers can love and care for their victims, abusers can be romantically attracted to their victims, abusers can feel trapped in the cycle just as much as the victim (e.g. the classic "look what you made me do" wifebeater excuse).

"Home?" "Home." and Word of God

In a similar vein, lots of people point to Scott's Third Life ending as proof their relationship had a happily ever after. This is one example of a trend I see within rebuttals where Scott's word is often treated as canonical Word of God.

Word of God, for those unaware, is the concept in storytelling of communicating definitive, unbiased information to the audience. Some iconic examples would be the Star Wars intro scroll, or any of the "once upon a time..." set-ups in fairy tales. Sometimes a character will temporarily possess Word of God and lose it later, such as Katara's intro narration in ATLA.

The subversion of Word of God would be Unreliable Narrator, where the person telling you the information is, in some way, not to be trusted. Some media play entirely on this concept, the Stanley Parable being one iconic example.

My personal interpretation of the traffic series is that every POV is unreliable narrator, with some being worse offenders (e.g. Scar and Martyn). I feel like it does a disservice to other POVs if you simply take one as Word of God, since some characters really do seem different until you see their side of things (some poignant examples would be Last Life Joel, Last Life Scar and Double Life Pearl). However, I must say again, this is not Correct nor is taking one POV as Word of God Wrong. That's just the rules I'm used to operating under.

So first off, operating within my rules: the "home?" "home." scene only appears in Scott's POV and is never acknowledged outside of that one scene. Jimmy clearly remembers the events of Third Life but never says a thing about him and Scott's shared afterlife (more on Jimmy's behaviour post-3L in a bit) and neither does Scott himself. To me this scene has always been either a tragic dying hallucination or an outright lie Scott invented to cope with the events of Third Life. I don't think there's any reason for me to believe the Jimmy in this scene is really Jimmy.

With that being said: taking the scene at face value as something that actually happened and it being a real afterlife Jimmy and Scott were sent to, there are still sinister elements that go entirely unacknowledged. Scott specifies that the flower valley was decorated to his plans, never mentioning Jimmy's, the same valley he previously insinuated he designed specifically so that he'd be "over" Jimmy.

Including Last Life and beyond as part of canon: this is very much not the "happily ever after" for Scott and Jimmy as. Well. They don't stay there and end up getting thrust into another death game where, again, this scene is never spoken about again and Jimmy only acts more and more antagonistic towards Scott as the seasons progress.

Disregarding Last Life and beyond: there is so much ambiguity that it's hard to take it all at face value, are there any other players in this place? Are Scott and Jimmy doomed to die knowing no one and nowhere else? Can Jimmy walk 15 minutes westward and come across the home of the guy who murdered him? Or is this a paradise where all the players can remain? What about Scott, is he going to go back to treating Jimmy the same way he did when they were both alive? How does he deal with the fact that his dead husband is suddenly back?

I do think this last one (taking Scott's POV as word of god + disregarding everything past this point) is the closest you're gonna get to an entirely non-toxic reading of this scene, but even then you'd have to work with the previous episodes of Scott hitting and berating Jimmy continuously.

Finally, one last issue I take with the "Scott's word = Word of God" interpretation is that it is, once again, inconsistent. If Scott ever says anything to contradict his "good husband" persona it's written off as a joke, but him saying that Pearl "cheated on him" is treated as if she really did commit adultery. There's also things that are just ignored, such as Scott saying "You guys (the audience) are obsessed with flower husbands, when really it's just been me and Pearl," in Secret Life -- words that would imply he really did not care that much for Jimmy.

"Nuance."

I see people just saying the word "nuance" or "scott isn't abusive it's more nuanced" like that's an actual sentence with worth really often. I'm sorry this section is harsh but "nuance" is not an argument, abusers can have nuance, real people are always nuanced and real people can be abusers. To imply that abuse cannot be "nuanced" is a little insulting to me.

Please just say "idgaf" and move on this isn't politics we don't need flower husbands centrism

Jimmy is the Abusive One

This one drives me insane but I see it fairly often and I. honestly don't know what to make of it. Sometimes it's coupled with an insistence that you can make anyone in the cast abusive if you try hard enough which... yeah I, I agree. We're agreeing here.

Seemingly most prominent during Limited Life, there's some claims that people are unfair towards Scott and that Jimmy is the real abuser, but I find the examples of his behaviour weak more often than not because they are usually 1. in direct response to something Scott did, 2. using psychic powers to sense characters motives (such as claiming he is guilt tripping people when he apologizes when nothing suggests that is the case) or 3. behaviour that not only is not toxic, but is very much harmless

Examples of the third one include things such as him refusing to say "love you" back to Scott during Limited Life and Secret Life, which he is not obligated to do. Some people insist he "owes" it to Scott somehow for Third Life which I find not only overestimating how much Scott aided Jimmy during Third Life (Jimmy Did die first, after all) but kind of. Dangerous? To say that you can somehow "owe" another person love and affection if they perform enough chores for you.

Another is the claim that Jimmy acts overly flirtatious with other men which hurts Scott which. I feel like needs an essay or two on slutshaming to make my point clear.

What really does me in is that this point is often paired with the insistence that Flower Husbands Would Be perfect if Jimmy just stopped "acting out" and did what Scott wanted him to. I don't really know how to explain why I find that kind of bad.

To me, it seems as if it's almost an admission that the further away from Third Life you get, the more clear it becomes that Jimmy does not have the highest opinion of Scott and in order for the non-toxic interpretation to still apply you need to stretch things, which often comes with the unfortunate side effect of saying some historically not awesome things about people like Jimmy.

Why Only Scott?

This often comes in hand with the first point about homophobia, with claims that Scott is the only one accused of being abusive to Jimmy, when others like Grian and Joel are the same if not worse.

This is another take that's strange to me because.. It's just untrue? I think it might be the shock of the culture shift of toxic fh that's spearheading this, but most of the smallidarity stuff I've seen, for example, come with some level of acknowledgement that Joel is a massive bitch. Sometimes it's through bully x victim AUs or storylines where he learns the error of his ways, but he's a bitch to Jimmy like. Most of the time.

Solidarian is a much lower sample rate ship for a character with a way too high sample rate but Grian characterization ranges from "pure evil watcher who feeds off suffering" to "previous abuse victim with trust issues". Very few times have I seen Grian presented as purely good in interpretations.

MOST of the jausage stuff I've seen is straight up sausage being. Weird.

There was a hilarious confessions blog anon awhile back that tried to claim shipping scarian was somehow morally wrong because Scar(???) abused Grian(???). It happens.

To add to this: very few of Jimmy's other romantic interests were literally calling himself his "husband" while hitting and berating him. The only other "canon" couple I can think of that come close is Jizzie and the way Lizzie will sometimes hit Joel, but that is primarily outside of the life series and their crimes against eachother in the series are always capstoned by almost cartoonish antics of "still love you, tho" (e.g. Joel putting Lizzie's stuff in a chest after she gets killed by a zombie or them choosing to team up Despite it All near the end of Last Life) -- I have more thoughts regarding them but this isn't the toxic jizzie post so I'll leave it at that.

Very, very rarely will I see someone who believes flower husbands is toxic but thinks joel/grian/fwhip/sausage/etc. are Completely fine. I also think it might just be that people talk about Scott more since Flower Husbands is the Iconic Ship and that gets numbers biased into people Only thinking Scott is bad for Jimmy.

It could also be argued that some of the Double Life pairings have the same level of toxic married couple energy that Flower Husbands does, but I'd argue that the soulbounds have enough variety that interpreting them as wholly romantic is difficult to do. There was also less hype overall with some of the most "toxic" pairings in DL, such as Impdubs or Box Boys, which makes it hard to find content for them -- I did a whole little liveblog of it calling Impdubs toxic as fuck. Y'all just didn't see it. Most of DL's toxic relationship themes also come from divorce quartet but admitting that those four have romantic tension in-universe gets you sniped in this economy.

To end: I talk about Scott more than the other guys because. I like him more. I like talking about people I like.

Conclusion (AKA who fucking cares)

I feel the need to restate my intro: no one actually fucking cares.

I've been talking about inconsistency in the "rules" of interpretation throughout this and I stick by my word but I think I'd have to mention that, in order to view this series as a storyline in the first place, you'd have to make some exceptions. I don't listen to the lines about youtube or viewers or when Grian talks about planning the series. I don't think it'd be Wrong to view Scott's POV as Word of God, disregard everything that implies he's a bad husband, not consider anything past "home?" "home." canon, so on. It would not be an interpretation I, some random asshole on tumblr, enjoy personally but if you're having fun you really should not give a shit about me.

However that doesn't mean people can't be rude or just straight up wrong or hypocritical when they claim toxic flower husbands interpretations are "homophobic" despite being antagonistic towards the gay people writing them in the first place (I've seen a ridiculous amount of middle school level namecalling for like no reason??) or claim that the interpretation is for people who "haven't watched their POV" as if a certain takeaway of a minecraft series presents you with some sense of superiority for understanding the cube guy harder than those horrible, horrible HATERS who think Scott killing himself over and over is sad to watch.

Oh and don't mention Pearl's role in all of this the only time I've seen someone try to bring her up I had to read it like five times and I'm still not quite sure I understand

#discourse #toxic flower husbands #random thoughts

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odusseus-xvi · 1 year ago

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hi!! this is kinda a weird question but ur post about characterization for french ccs is rlly helpful for writing, so i was wondering if u had any like . tips or advice about speaking patterns or like. common terms or phrases they use and stuff like that. i have a lot of issues with auditory processing and other hearing stuff that makes it like . hard for me to always understand speech patterns or just like . what people are actually saying so if u have any like . advice or info about like How They Talk that u could put in text or like specific that would be cool. no worries if u dont/cant btw i completely get it i just remembered that u were the one w the previous helpful post ::D

Yeah, no problem I could try ! :D Now keep in mind again I'm not necessarily an expert, and I'm just doing this because it's fun. I still might make some mistakes, and miss some important details, but 'Ill do my best. SO

Let's go for HOW DO THE FRENCH (and swiss) CCS TALK :

Let's start with

ETOILES : So I feel like it might be the easiest because he's the clearest to me. He tends to speak at a normal space and in english with a noticeable slighly french accent, but not an extreme one. He likes to crack jokes constantly when he speaks with other people (most of the time hyping up others, and self deprecating, you know the "You are a legend, I am dumb".) . He can drop pearls of wisdom randomly through ridiculous metaphors ("You don't need to worry, My name means stars, that means that when you look I'm here." "It's like crossing the road, you have to, and there is cars, you need to be careful, but it can't be all you focus on. Wait I'm not sure about that one...") and sometimes actually genuine and inspiring, but more often that not in the tone of discussion, it doesn't sound like he's dispensing "wisdom of the elders", he's just a humble guy talking with you and giving a random advice. He often says in french "Wow a flop" when something doesn't work. Or "c.s.c." (Contre Con Camp, a football term meaning scoring against your own team) when he comments on someone being a tryhard for example ("WOW such a tryhard (csc)"). He'll often makes the joke that nobody likes him when they don't answer in chat to himself, (or chat) and will directly tell them "You want me to die irl don't you?" ensues a myriad of "holy shit you want me to die for real" answered by the "NOO" of the other one. Two last details that came to me, he rarely actually answers by "no" or "yes", he often use "Yeh yeh yeh", or "no no no". He also uses a lot of "euuuuh..." when looking for his words when speaking.

AYPIERRE : He is fairly simple too. He has a very relaxed tone, speaks slightly slower than most people, and has slightly noticeable french accent but less so than others. His tone differenciate between three states : Focused (while building or infiltrating a base), relaxed, and humourous. Note that he's never fully serious, he has that constant gremlin energy and smile that makes him want to make jokes that will make everybody cringe (his favorite pastime.) The only time he's been serious and slightly upset was when he earned gegg died or when he learned that the federation was trying to replicate his wine (there you can see his priorities). Most of the time people are assuming the worst when it's his countless time he starts a conversation with "So, I did something..." and is the type of guy to say "*known illegal act* is a strong word, let's say it's more like *not necessarily better*". I don't follow him as much, so I currently have no other mannerism in mind.

BAGHERA : I feel like she is a bit harder to pin down. When speaking in english she has a very noticeable accent, especially when she is tired. And talks a bit fast, especially in french. Though she doesn't crack jokes constantly, she has a constant chaotic energy that makes her say random things at times. She often say "Oh Yeaaaah" when she is happy or hyped about something, mostly when she is with other people to show them she is happy too. When she is ashamed or not understanding something she likes to take a voice we call the "Antoine Croute" voice (a character she played in a Rp series on GTA V), it's high pitched and really shy. (imagine a little "wut... ?"). She can be really serious, especially when investigating. She almost nver express vocally, in tone at least, her anger. Instead she sounds incredibly cold, like she was with ElQuackity. Her voice when serious drops a bit, and she speaks a bit faster. There is probably plenty more but I'm starting to get tired.

ANTOINE : He is the hardest to me because it is even hard to pin down in french. He has most of the time a very serious tone, while he ironically constantly making either dark jokes based on irony and cynism OR a pun. Because of this, it's sometimes hard to pin what's a joke and what's serious. His accent alternates between horrible french accent OR almost ProPeR eNgliSH. Even when discussing absolutely batshit insane things he sounds serious (he is not in reality, but it's a form of humor in itself). OCCASIONALLY he'll break and cracks a smile, and sometimes, even the heartiest laugh you've ever heard, a very vocal and deep "AHAHAHAHA" that you can hear a mile away (but it happens rarely.) Though I didn't specify, most people, including the french, stutter at least a little bit, and search their words, (like I said for Etoiles' "euh".) but Antoine tends to have a very clear speech, only occasionally looking for a translation. In the same vein, he also has a very quick reaction and can answer with a pun almost instantly (very impressive, especially when it's not his native language.)

That's pretty much all I can think of right now, and I'm tired. Maybe it's not exactly what you asked, but it's what I can muster. Hopes that helped :D

#qsmp #qsmp baghera jones #qsmp etoiles #qsmp aypierre #qsmp antoine daniel #qsmp antoine #qsmp baghera

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anachronistic-falsehood · 11 months ago

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CW selfharm, Sorry to ask, is CC!forever ok? I'm not on twitter so I don't know if he is doing any replies or posts after the stream, but there was a couple ways that he phrased things and the ending of the stream have me sort of worried.

yeah i was honestly a bit worried because he said (paraphrased) "the reason i'm still alive/not dead is because of the people who humanized me" like i don't support the things he's said but no one deserves to have their mental health tank like this. the fact that we know he has a history of mental health issues when it comes to twitter hate mobs and actually said this is kind of worrying. it didn't sound like something he was saying for sympathy points btw idk who else watched the stream but like he's mentioned having mental health issues with this kind of thing before. and like. his entire friend group he accrued over the past many months have all left (and i don't blame them for that obviously, i'm still on the fence about all this myself) and he's no longer part of this really cool project he was super dedicated to. i don't blame him for being upset, and even though i'm not directly supporting him anymore, i hope he will be okay.

#forever situation #i do think he has changed for the better yk #i'm just still v conflicted

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cupcraft · 2 years ago

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(not the probable bait anon)

I think this latest tweet is the final nail in the coffin for me watching Tommy. Probably should have done it a dozen Dream jokes ago, but I love so many things he's written. Either way I don't plan to watch any more of his videos or the Sorry Boys channel

This isn't a call for you to do that too, I only wanted to talk about it to someone and you're the first blog I saw that I know cares about Tommy's stories but has reacted appropriately to the Dream allegations

Hi anon honestly I don't blame you distancing yourself anyhow you need even from Tommy or any mcyter. I'll still probably watch the sorry boys and all that but if he platforms dream live other than the bs jokes I'm sure I'll be in a similar boat tbh because it makes me really uncomfortable. And for all my moots this isn't meant to be crit to you either btw (that'd be hypocritical of me considering I'm still the tundra baby blog lmfao) im just saying personally it does affect me with all the positive references to drm on top of the silence on the situation (and that goes for any cc im even upset avout the amt of streamers that collabed for cooking streams at the dteam household). I hope you're doing okay anon take care of yourself.

#tea.cups #ask #dream situation

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simgigglegirl · 2 years ago

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...Guess who's the idiot that deleted the wrong folder, thinking it was the project folders that I finished using (BTW! 50+ Male hairs incoming tomorrow! All that's left is defaults but I need to learn how to do that first) and now the recent neighbourhood that I was having fun with is gone 😭

I thought I was fine since I store backups every now and then but the backup I have for it is super behind so I lost a huge chunk of progress... I wasn't in the mood to play all that again so I just did the next best thing. I extracted the in-game-born premade children and decided to post how they came to be. Because most of them were born from love affairs and it was so funny to see the drama unfold in my game haha.

There's no need to read on and you can skip this post since I'm mostly posting for myself so that I can be less upset that I'll have to start another Uberhood again. And one household had so much drama happening that explaining it all got a wall of text waiting below the read more... So I wouldn't be offended if you skip this and wait for the downloads tomorrow. Also, I guess it can be a preview of what type of kids you could get from my GC sims.

So all these children were just toddlers and/or children in my gameplay but I aged them up to Adults because I plan to also use them to display my future CCs that I made to share. And it's the better age stage to show their feature.

Let's start with the most drama-filled household I had while playing their round!

The Singles Household - Family connection with Grunts & Burb

(left to right) Odin Beaker - (Son of Erin Beaker & John Burb) Alana Burb - (2nd daughter of John & Jennifer Burb) They had her before I started the Single household round, so she was just a recently grown-up child when Odin was born.

Fiona Beaker - (Daugther of Erin Beaker & Ripp Grunt)

(left to right) Rosa Curious Luna Curious - Twin daughters of Chloe Curious & Ripp Grunt

Levin Grunt - (Son of Kristen Loste & Tank Grunt)

Yeah... I'm sure this info alone is proof of what went down in this household. But these kids being born doesn't cover half of it! Chloe ended up getting Family as her 2nd aspiration and Erin gained Romance as hers. These changes become the main reason so much drama ended up happening in this house, good god.

Before playing the Single household I had first finished the Grunt family round so Tank was in Uni and Ripp become an Adult since he didn't roll a college want before he aged. So no teens were going around giving the newly turned adult girls nooboos... ew. Anyway, Ripp that had no luck getting any girls to date him, when he was a teen, suddenly had Chloe and Erin having a massive attraction to him as soon as he was greeted into the house by Lola.

The two of them just kept flirting up a storm with him till ACR did its thing and had Chloe woohoo with Ripp thus leaving her pregnant with the twins, she fell in love with him right after the woohoo and AUTO PROPOSED TO HIM AND HE ACCEPTED!!!! Before I could even progress what just happened, Erin goes and ACR woohoo with Ripp, GETS RISKY WOOHOO PREGRENT AS WELL! And then proceeds to destroy Chloe's engagement as soon as the deed was done since Chloe walked in to see the both of them in bed...

It doesn't stop there. While heavily pregnant, Chloe ended up getting a date offer from the townie that Lola brought back from work and guess who she got as her date...DANIEL FREAKING PLEASENT! And they hit it off!!! To the point, she rolled an engagement want for him and I decided "LOL why not, it's not like he'll accept it" BUT HE FKING DID! HE SAID YES!!! AT A 5% CHANCE, DANIEL SAID YES!!! I sadly won't know if he would have said yes again during the wedding party but man I wish I could have seen that shit show.

How did baby Odin come into the picture? Well after Erin gave birth to Fiona, she got an outing call from Jennifer (During the Burb round, Erin become one of the family friends that Jennifer needed for her work promotion... if only she knew) and since Jennifer brought her whole family to this outing, John was also there as well. It was only after the outing event ended that Erin ACR with John to the photobooth, THE FAMILY WAS STILL AROUND BTW, exposed John as a cheater to his family and managed to make it worst by getting Erin pregnant...

Before the end of this household round, Tank walks by (he must have known that his brother had just become a father of three kids) and since Kristen was sent to greet him, they hit it off really well from there. At least she didn't get pregnant right on the first day but only near the end of the round with Levin.

Lola was the only one smart enough to at least keep to herself and flirt with the newly single Mary-Sue while Chloe and Erin were in their clowning hours, lol.

The Dina Caliente Household AKA 'Dina knows how to get that money' - Family Connection with Goth and Landgraab

(left to right) Mimi Landgraab - (Daugther of Dina & Malcolm) Elizabeth Goth - (Daugther of Dina & Mortimer Goth) Malcolm V Landgraab - (Son of Dina & Malcolm) Margaret II Landgraab - (Daugther of Dina & Malcolm) She's the one behind Malcolm V. Katrina Landgraab - (Daugther of Dina & Malcolm) Nancy Landgraab - (Daugther of Dina & Malcolm)

Yep, Dina has 6 kids in total. In order by age, Elizabeth was her first child with Mortimer. They weren't even married yet when she got pregnant with Elizabeth but only after she had a belly pop during her date with Mortimer did he finally roll a want to engage with Dina, thus securing that marry a rich sim want she had. However, the marriage didn't last long since she got caught cheating with Ajay Loner (Mortimer was right there Dina... what were you thinking accepting that kiss...) so at the end of the Goth round she was kicked out after the marriage was broken off.

During Malcolm's round, Dina came by on one of Malcolm's business lots and by herself managed to win him over LOL. It was so funny seeing all the interaction from Dina automatically popping up while the dude was trying to run his business, lol. And here's the kicker! During one of the dates Malcolm and her had, she managed to not only get pregnant with Malcolm's baby but got him pregnant too (thanks to this mod) automatically securing herself with the 2nd richest sim in the hood HAHA!

Wasn't so funny when I suddenly found myself needing to help them take care of 5 newborns at once because Dina gave birth to triplets and Malcolm twins...

The Una Household - Family connection with Mole (The father is a deadbeat!)

(left to right) James Una - (Son of Natasha & John Mole) Alastair Una - (Son of Natasha & John Mole) Alex Una - (Son of Natasha & John Mole)

John Mole is the worst! THE WORST with how he treats Natasha! OMG! The dude has 3 bolts with her, rolls a bunch of wants for Natasha and seems to be madly in love with her BUT HE WILL KEEP REFUSING TO MARRY HER!!! I thought I messed up the rejection chances mod but no... he really didn't want to get married, EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A WANT TO GET MARRIED!!! Every time I foolishly rebuild the relationship because they sooner or latter always roll the wants to get back in love with each other. But John keeps refusing when ITS TIME FOR THE MARRIAGE TO HAPPEN!!!

Oh but he sure had no issues to keep getting Natasha pregnant every time the relationship was back to "ACR woohoo is acceptable now".

#NatashaUnaDeservesBetter

Born from drama-free households - Most were just risky woohoo babies.

Yeah, I'm shocked that only three households I played had the most dramatic events happen... maybe the 2nd round would have proven me wrong but these are the following kids that were born from either married couples, soon to be married or in Kaylynn's case, "Oops, I just wanted to test the RCC mod being able to let unplayable townies have a chance to get pregnant and it worked... well Mary-Sue broke things off because of the affair baby so maybe you can have your happy ending with Da- oh wait Chloe just proposed and he said yes..."

(left to right) Aberto Monty - (Son of Ajay Loner & Bianca Monty) Lete Shikibu - (Daugther of Cleo Shikibu & Antonio Monty)

Finn Bell - (Son of Issac & Hannah)

Arthur Capp - (Son of Albany & Goneril)

Anson Capp - (Son of Consort & Alexandra) ...I'm leaning on the main reason Alexandra accepted the marriage with Consort was because he could provide her funding for the Pirate lifestyle she wants. They may be 2 bolts but they don't act a lot like a couple. Poor Anson.

Kimberley Capp - (Daugther of Regan & Cornwall) Victoria Capp - (Daugther of Regan & Cornwall)

Atom Beaker - (Son of Loki & Circe) Ceres Beaker - (Daughter of Loki & Circe) Thor Beaker - (Son of Circe & Loki) Atom & Ceres are twins (Yea I lucked out that it happened naturally) while Thor is the youngest. Thor is also the only one that doesn't have two points in mean.

Nelly Aspir - (Daugther of Victor & Elizabeth) Roman Aspir - (Son of Victor & Elizabeth) Marion Aspir - (Daugther of Victor & Elizabeth) They're triplets... send an F in the chat for their poor mother.

Noah Martin - (Son of Andrew & Elena) Genie appeared in their lot so dead mum came back to life and they ended up having another child.

Jewel Simth - (Daugther of Jenny & PT#9) Joanna Simth - (Daugther of Jenny & PT#9) Twins and also everyone loves each other so much in this family 🥺

Parker Langerak - (Son of Kaylynn Langerak & Daniel Pleasent) Sorry about your dad... at least your sisters love you very much.

Tinkerbell Summerdream - (Daugther of Titania & Oberon)

Elisa Ramirez - (Daughter of Checo & Lisa)

Vincent Goth - (Son of Cassandra & Don) Easton Goth - (Son of Cassandra & Don) Twins, hate each other since birth for some reason.

Florent Delarosa - (Son of Florence & Gilbert)

Debbie Dreamer - (Daugther of Darren & Darleen) Lol Dirk getting a genie lamp and wishing for his mum back and then using the rest for money was pretty much the reason Darren's engagement got called off. (Well Darren got kissed by Darleen in front of Cassandra but I like to think getting back the things they once had was what made Darren think twice about the engagement).

Dedric McGreggor - (Son of Leon & Ivy(Adult Townie)) Donald McGreggor - (Son of Leon & Ivy(Adult Townie)) Twins

Corbin Jocque - (Son of Marcel & Sophia) Gabe Jocque - (Son of Marcel & Sophia) Twins

Reed Tinker - (Son of Stephen & Wanda) Celesta Tinker - (Daughter of Stephen & Wanda) Rhythm Tinker - (Daugther of Stephen & Wanda) Lyric Tinker - (Son of Stephen & Wanda) Quads, yes they have musical names. Really proud of that part lol.

Bobby Broke - (Son of Brandi & Skip) Yea, Bobby is my version of the unborn baby. His also around the same age as the kids I shared here. So you can get an idea of how much of a baby boom I got in this save.

#kinda nonsims

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kingspacebar · 2 years ago

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Have you ever gotten warned on Toyhouse? And if so (and you’re comfortable sharing) for what?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by warning?

I've gotten stuff taken down before though. I had a kaito fursona I made that got taken down, and since then just kinda. never posted them (cc furries) to th... I had a few other cc furries that I made around then but I sold them (I am very against doing this now btw) so I have no Idea where they're at rn

I also had a F2U Stamp page get taken down, which is fair. Wasnt even upset when I got the message lmao

Back before the Catagory update, Admin unlisted a bunch of my bases which was dumb as hell since the update came out 3 days later and I can't unlock them even though they're in the right category now and there was literally no way for me to categorize them *before that was a feature* so. That's the only unfair one I think (which still makes sense cause technically it was against the rules I just never saw it enforced ever and enforcing a rule right before an update and then. not letting locked characters return now that they're allowed is kinda silly)

Everything I've ever had taken down was totally fair even if I don't like it so it's not like I have much to complain about lmao. I don't have any official like "stop doing this or we take down ur account" or anything? Which would be how I interpreted "warned on toyhouse" but. shrug

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enifo-talks · 1 month ago

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Rest of prev talking thing is in tags. So read that before you read mine or this will be very confusing lol(sorry I just dont like talking in the tags most of the time)

Yea, I can understand being frustrated by the fact a team you like is being called toxic and all of that. Especially if you can't find any healthy content of them (which remind me I need to make that healthy PICS content I've been planning to do since yesterday).

The thing I really do disagree about is I think CC!Pearl was mad at the fact people were mad at her (the content creator) for just reteaming up with the gggs and weren't even willing to give them a chance, not because people were calling them toxic and telling Pearl to run jokingly.(Though that could of also been apart of that post, I don't go on reddit so i don't know what Pearl was replying to? If she was replying to a post telling Pearl to run away from ggg because of it being toxic and you send me a screenshot? But for now it's not explicit enough for me. Unless if she made a new post about that? If she or any of the other ccs did say they are upset about this, i'll stop calling them toxic)

Also yes, you are right about we should add critical tag thingy when ppl main tag it. I've been guilty of that, of course it was just a joke, but I should of added/j and tagged it properly(Also people shouldn't main tag on Scott or on Cleo thing posts. For me personally, since like I said I don't know if Pearl is also mad about the whole wanting pearl to run away because of a toxic team, we shouldn't even main tag on with pearl so she doesnt get upset).

I also somewhat disagree with the whole people are forgetting about Cleo. Ive seen more posts with Scott and Cleo together than just Scott and even some pointing out Cleo is more toxic out of the two. Of course you and me don't view the same content, but I just think I'm more of a reliable source sense I've been actively seeking out this content and (it could not be true this is just me critical thinking) it seems you been avoiding it. I'm not saying homophobia doesn't exist for this fandom, but I much rather look another way around because calling ppl homophobic without really knowing them is an awful thing to do.(same with sexist, racist and etc)

(Also personally for me I just brought Gem into this because Gem did try to take Pearl away in Secret life. I'm not really a gempearl shipper anymore, but some ppl are bringing her in for shipping purposes which really isn't even that bad.)

Btw pls don't read this as me being negative towards you or being snobby. I generally just want a conversation with you because I love talking to people who don't have the same view as me it's so interesting. (And if you don't that is fine. It's also fine to block me. I can understand trying to get rid of all content you don't like, make sure you don't forget to block my main account too.)

it’s okay guys pearl will leave *that* alliance and then be with someone else who actually cares like gem and joel or the bam girls guys it’s gonna be okay guys we have to stay strong guys gUYS-

(Is it delusional for me to think that if gem sees first hand the way scott and cleo treat pearl she would actually be like "Hey hold on don't be mean-!"?)

it’s okay…it’s okay…someone will see what’s happening between ggg and actually talk to Pearl about it…she’ll realise that this isn’t good for her…trust…

(Honestly anon I’m so tempted to write something along the lines of Gem comforting Pearl, if I stay in this torment nexus for long enough I’ll have enough motivation)

#I am SO sick of the “Pearl NEEDS to leave GGGS right now and join Gem instead!!” posts.#CC!Pearl has already made a post about how hurt she is by people saying this! It's making her uncomfortable!#She knows her character better then you do. Let her make her own choices.#And why are people reeling Gem into this? Gem has barely talked to her all season mates!#If you wanted somebody to whisk her away and save her from the oh-so-scary GGs why not Impulse? He's right there. The more likely candidate #99% of the posts I've seen about this are just salty Gempearl shippers who don't actually care about Pearl's wellbeing- they just want yuri #You like a ship! Good for you! Stop having a fit every season when Pearl teams with who she wants to and not who the fandom is-#-peer-pressuring her to team with.#“Gem will save her!!” Have you considered she's a grown woman who can make her own choices both character and cc-wise?#Anyway. If you didn't want this addition to your post! Maybe you should have properly character critical tagged it before maintagging </3 #“GeminiTay save me you can see past the blue man's bs”#And once again we forget about Cleo (treated Pearl JUST as bad!) to solely villify the gay man...

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doodlebloo · 3 years ago

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Ok closing things bc I really have to go to bed:

1. Seriously if you are a twt user or even if you're not do not genuinely send any ccs hate over these jokes. Just bc they're not everyone's taste doesn't mean they're hurting anyone so let's all be chill and not send any hate or anything

2. If you missed the """discourse""" (on my blog I mean idk if anyone else said anything) here's the gist of it:

I am not genuinely upset with any cc at all. I know that Michael_B was never in any danger and I know the jokes are just ooc jokes and goofing around. I think trending /neg over jokes like this is completely unnecessary and stupid. The complete extent of the "discourse" was me talking abt how/why I don't think this joke is funny, all properly tagged. I'm not saying that any cc did anything wrong, but I am allowed to post abt disliking a joke, esp tagged properly.

3. I am usually not a discourse blog I promise I keep my mouth shut abt discourse as often as I am able to. Like I'm normally SO good at not getting involved even when I rlly want to but Michael_B is like the one topic I am so passionate abt I love that little guy so much

Btw for anyone wondering Michael_B is completely safe, it's all just jokes he was never in any danger so nobody worry you can relax and sleep/go do something else if you need :)

I probs won't be answering anymore asks abt this tonight but if anyone has anything else to add or wants to correct something I said/offer a rebuttal or something u can still send an ask and I will try to get to it tomorrow ! <3

#doodle.txt #i cannot BELIEVE i did not lose a single follower this eve. We will see what happens tomorrow i suppose </3 #this is good tho for my new followers. hello new folks one impkrtant fact abt me is that i think Michael_B always comes first <333 #tbh i am still sooo cranky over this stream srsly but I'm just going to go to bed and when i wake up ill be over it maybe #also c!clingyduo lore this weekend real so yk <3 (<- possibly lying) Peace And Love

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eulchu · 3 years ago

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qbaiting of real people shouldn’t be regarded on the same level as corporate qbaiting i agree but you’re being purposefully ignorant if you think dream and george don’t profit from dnf and don’t intentionally pander. a very large part, if not the majority, of their ‘fandom’ (the audience that buys the most merch, donates and fanatically consumes all their content) came from the random clips and compilations of ‘dnf being boyfriends uwu’ and they definitely know it. they know that dnf will get them the most likes on twitter (and therefore exposure), most clicks on a video, most viewed clips on youtube etc. dream even uses dnf as a distraction tactic after every controversy because he knows that’s what his fans on twitter are most interested in. its pretty funny to observe but also a very real strategy he uses.

however, main problem here isn’t them, it’s their entire fanbase. even if dng never flirt anymore their fans will still ship them and be utterly convinced they’re together (btw you definitely underestimate the number of truthers in this fandom, people do unironically believe in dnf). dnf reached larry levels of delusions and nothing can stop it anymore.

i really want to agree with you about some things anon but i've had a very long night and i'm very tired of the complete villanization of dream on social media.

saying that he actively uses his friendship to lure people in and do damage control is SO fucking cheap. never in their lives have either of them used an even remotely clickbait-y title for any of their streams or youtube videos. their twitter interactions are probably the most normal they are in any of their social medias at this point.

you see there's a very big difference between queerbating a fanbase with empty promises of falling madly in love and marrying his best friend and providing a very specific dynamic that does not in ANY way mean he's planning on eloping to vegas while riding a big rainbow dildo. queerbating your audience entails that you're being profusely ambiguous in a way that will keep them around. what he's doing is sharing his friendship with the internet, his very platonic friendship that he's said MANY times is very platonic. if people don't understand that, it's on them.

dream, as any other streamer, is an entertainer. it's his job. if people like the dynamic he and his best friend have of course he's OBVIOUSLY gonna provide. but he does not go out of his way to make it happen. him and george are already that way behind camera too. is it really that weird to believe? that two friends are affectionate and flirty with each other? seeing someone call it a 'strategy' is pretty fucking upsetting to be honest. george, with sapnap, is one of the only few good things dream had for a very long time. suggesting that he'd be enough of a prick to patronize his friendship just for money is pretty fucking disgusting. if i was dream i'd be pretty upset over it.

i would love to know who the fuck looked at two nerdy minecraft gamers and thought 'ah yes, i'm entitled to tell them how they should act around each other'. am i the only one who sees how messed up that is? this is like forcing someone to stay closeted, but reversed! and i KNOW straight people don't have to live with the same prejudices that we do, but for the love of god, they're still human beings who deserve freedom of speech and respect.

god i just don't understand why it's such a big deal. i see some arguments that go like 'it's so bad because they have all these people who are shipping their cishet asses instead of supporting the actual lgbt content creators'. does anyone really think that those people would support lgbt cc's if dnf wasn't a thing? because that's the most deluded thing i've heard.

dream and george are not the problem. instead of telling two best friends to stop acting a certain way because it pisses you off, ask all those people who take it too seriously and fetishizate them to educate themselves on lgbt matters. i'm dead tired of the internet gatekeeping behaviors now. i don't see how the way two people interact with each other is anyone's business.

i don't understand why two friends taking an 'are you in love with your best friend' quiz is such a fucking offense to anyone. during a fucking discord call, out of all things! do you know how much money they earned from it? absolutely nothing. do you know how much money they earn from being flirty over text or joking with their friends off stream about it? you guessed it, absolutely nothing. because they are that way on and off stream. why are cc's suddenly forbidden from doing things that any normal person would do with their friends at 5 in the morning on a friday night? why is everyone so keen on controlling the way they act? if you don't like it simply click off the stream!

there's always gonna be obsessive fans who take it too far and if there ARE people comparing dnf to larry i'd rather not bump into any of them for a big number of reasons lol, but i still don't see why obsessive fans has anything to do with either dream or george. i could go on about parasocial relationships and obsessive behaviors bc i don't have a psych degree for nothing, but i'm not gonna because i'm tired.

#knock yourself out with this one anon #ask #dreamnotfound #dnf #negativity #but only from the ask #long post

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tommyssupercoolblog · 5 months ago

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If I have a boundary about no smoking in my house that doesn't mean you don't get to smoke EVER. I have no right to tell you what to do in your own time. It means no smoking around ME and MY HOUSE.

Additionally if it's my boundary then it's MY JOB to enforce it and cut out people from my life, or block tags and blogs.

That goes for every kind of boundary, yes even shipping ones, please stop acting like they're universal laws because that's literally not what boundaries are!!!

If you make a post like "list of ccs boundaries so you know what you can and can't do💖" "reminder not to simp for/crush on this celebrity ever because it's against their boundaries!!" I'm blocking you straight up. Same if you're an artist and tell people they can't ship your OCs or make fanart at all. You can say you don't want that shit around you but people are allowed to do whatever they want on their own blog?? As long as they aren't tagging you in it then they aren't actually breaking any boundaries??

I have a boundary against people flirting with or hitting on me. However they think about me in their own time is their own business, it's just if they tell me that directly, I'm not talking to them anymore. They can crush on me because I can't control their emotions, but they can't try to break me and Seán up or tell me they like me. (This doesn't include being bad at hiding a crush btw, I don't think I'd notice but like. If you're trying to be respectful and not get with me I'm not going to get upset with you anyway lol)

Same with joke flirting and saying I love you, although if I know them then that's not something I'd block them over I'd just like...talk to them. But they can say that to anyone else!!! Or even make those jokes about me to other people when I'm not there!!!! Because I don't control them!!

None of you know what that word means and I hate it

Almost none of you people actually know what a boundary is

Not directed at my followers I just mean the internet population at large

#i made a textpost #boundaries #discourse #stopppppppp with the policing it's so annoying

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arcenciel-par-une-larme · 4 years ago

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genuine question, how is 'voting with your money' in a conservative society good but 'cancel culture' bad? Surely if lgbt people don't want to work with people who think they are sinners, they should be allowed to fire them, because that's their right? This strikes me as a contradiction but lmk if i'm wrong

You seem to be bringing two issues at the same time into this, but I’ll try to cover them both.

Surely if lgbt people don't want to work with people who think they are sinners, they should be allowed to fire them, because that's their right?

This can easily lead us into very unpleasant territory if you expand this to its logical conclusions.

By definition, we Christians believe that everyone who has ever walked this earth (ourselves included BTW) is a sinner. Romans 3 is pretty much a summary exposition of that. It means that we have committed wrongdoings and dwelt in evil or impure thoughts. If, as such, people started firing those who thought they are in sin, Christians would be completely unhirable in zero time.

Furthermore, although I have no formal legal expertise to speak of, even so I have a feeling that, from a legal standpoint, this would also be nothing short of a disaster area. Imagine telling a court of law something amounting to “I decided to fire this person because he believes that I have offended his God in whom I don’t even believe”: it boils down to theological differences and little, if anything, else. If this somehow managed to establish itself as a legit precedent, it would lead to all kinds of religious discrimination overnight.

how is 'voting with your money' in a conservative society good but 'cancel culture' bad?

There are some important differences between the two, and I shall try to explain them to the best of my ability.

1. “Voting with your money” (henceforth VWYM), as I am aware of the term, has more to do with an individual choosing to support or not to support different businesses, either through purchasing their products or deciding to work for them. Cancel culture (henceforth CC), on the other hand, describes situations where societal clout is mobilised in order to mark certain individuals as “problematic” and as such to make it more difficult (if not nigh impossible) for them to make a living or to be respected in polite society.

2. VWYM is mainly concerned with current causes and practices espoused by a business. CC can be triggered by literally anything, even decades-old tweets which the author might even have regretted.

3. Likewise, people who VWtheirM do not seem to mind granting again their patronage to businesses who correct their practices and espoused beliefs. CC has shown again and again that its adherents are not interested in any sort of forgiveness; they alone are right, always; and it’s always one strike and you’re out.

4. Most people who VWtheirM, although usually making their grievances known and trying to convince others to boycott this or that firm, are not fixated on aligning everybody with their causes and preferences. Cancelers, on the other hand, are rarely satisfied with anything short of nationwide (or even international), unanimous outrage against those whom they choose to target. Hence why CC typically leverages social media outrage mobs, and why anybody who does not join them is also added to the “problematic people” list and considered complicit.

5. Whereas slander and half-truths seem to be CC’s bread-and-butter, it is increasingly rarer in the grand scheme of VWYM. In fact, you might have noticed that one of the most oft criticised aspects of cancel culture is how it relies on demonising people and considering them evil, as well as the lack of proportionality between the alleged “crime” and the sought punishment.

6. VWYM rarely has to do with what we call “punching down”. CC rarely has any qualms about “punching down”.

7. Perhaps the best explanation is given by @Wokal_Distance on Twitter:

The most common form of cancel culture is using social media to create mobs that create social and financial consequences for people who hold views the cancelers don’t like. Usually the cancelers seek to get a person fired but sometimes settle for reputation destruction. This is what people are talking about when they talk about cancel culture.

It’s not that there is a shortage of platforms from which to express an opinion, nor are they upset about garden-variety shunning (“I’m not your friend anymore”, “You can’t come to my birthday” etc) from peers.

Cancel culture means a guy I’ve never met, in a state where I don’t live, can see a video that I didn’t film, of a thing that I didn’t say to him, and get me fired from my job providing a service that he doesn’t use.

Again, that’s as far as I could think about the issue right now. @anscathmarcach @ask-a-baptist @theindependentconservative @siryouarebeingmocked @bransrath and anybody else, please feel free to contribute as you see fit.

#personal post archive #cancel culture

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