#i'm genuinely upset i can't figure out how to center the post

[theramblingsofadork]

Starpoint AU Character Profile: Dr. Starline (UNDER CONSTRUCTION)

Age: Starpoint Squad Era: 20, Downfall Era: 24, Restoration Era: 26

Starpoint Arc Personality: Much like his canon counterpart, Starpoint!Starline is a intelligent, calculated, and driven individual. He’s confident, singleminded, and determined to reach his goal, no matter what he has to do to get there.

He’s great at manipulation, can be egotistical and haughty, and knows how to ‘play the game’ to keep his targets doing what he wants them to.

Granted, as the AU goes on, he begins to see the fruits that can be gained from working with others. He finds himself learning what real friendship is like, and becoming more genuine. Eventually, much to his confusion, horror, and surprise, he even softens up and gains a bit of a heart for those around him.

As he begins to grow comfortable with the Starpoint Squad, his theatrical behaviors become more commonplace, and he finds himself confidently bantering with the group and enjoying their presence.

His underlying goal of one day working alongside Eggman is still very prevalent though, proving to be his biggest stumbling block as Starline’s goals and aspersions remain almost solely fixed upon the man and his awe inspiring legacy.

And while he tries to play his cards close to his chest, if someone decides to listen or he’s permitted the opportunity, he will find himself eagerly going off on an excited tangent about the doctor or whatever other topic is on his mind.

Strengths: Along with his high intellect, Starline also possesses a wellspring of knowledge regarding a wide array of subjects. He’s quite sharp regarding biology and machines, and has an impeccable work ethic. Also, despite his haughtiness, he can be quite a charmer.

He also has the warp topaz, whose power he is currently still in the process of discovering the full extent of. Despite this, he can still use it with decent competency should the need ever arise.

Weaknesses: Ah yes. His folly.

Due to his upbringing and poor choice of idol, Starline can come off as quite pretentious, struggling to hold meaningful relationships with others due to childhood formed biases and a skewed sense of what relationships are supposed to look like. While insightful, he can easily be blindsighted by his dreams and selfish ambitions. This makes him sometimes blind to or dismissive of other people’s feelings and desires. Which… gets him into trouble. ✨ And does wonders for his relationships ✨ /j

While he does grow out of this a bit from being around good influences, his pride does still like to reer it’s ugly head from time to time, as well as his underlying desire for validation and respect.

The Starpoint Squad is also a weakness, but in a more positive way. They act as a foil to him, giving him another perspective that he wouldn’t get from Eggman.

It’s a foreign feeling to him, one he can’t quite decide how he feels on it, but he does like being admired. It does present it’s own struggles, giving him a newfound fear of rejection and having to chose between sides. But, in typical Starline fashion, he ends up doubling down and self sabotaging himself in leu of what he thinks he wants and needs.

Eventually he realizes his mistake, but by then, damage has already been done.

(He can also tend to lose his nerve if spooked, and accidentally slips up secrets when engaged in one of his many excited and loose-tongued rambles.)

History: Starpoint!Starline grew up as a bright-eyed, upper-class child with a great brilliance and interest in science.

He was raised in a well-off family of nobility, but didn’t have much in the way of real friends as every ‘friendship’ was a calculated play he was forced into by his parents to forward the position of the family.

As a result, Starline grew up in a giant game of chess, spending large amounts of time of his time doing what his parents wanted him to do, with his studies and inventions mostly keeping him sane when they were too busy arguing or being away to check up on him. (Which is where his habit of talking to himself spawned from.)

When Eggman’s global broadcast aired on TV, like a flip had been switched, Starline became spellbound. For here was a genius of his caliber, unafraid to fight and show the world what he’s made of while also using his genius to shape the world into how he saw fit.

Starline was enthralled, inspired by his sheer brilliance, and quickly fell down the rabbit hole, becoming a huge fan of Eggman’s legend. (His version of a Saturday Morning Cartoon hero.) It filled him with inspiration and drive, and as his confidence bloomed, his relationships with his family and society around him grew even worse until he finally broke free from all of them, dedicating his career to following in the man’s footsteps.

Additional Information:

Starline’s Character Arcs: (Spoilers Ahead!)

⭐️ Starpoint Squad Arc:

Downfall Arc: Check back later!

Restoration Arc: Check back later!

Likes: Dr. Eggman, science, technology, robotics, the arcane, upper class, theater, Broadway, dressing and looking sharp, the Atmos cafeteria’s sandwiches, being appreciated and respected, peace and quiet, classical music, tea, being in charge of a situation, the Starpoint Squad (eventually), good food and intelligent company.

Dislikes: Sonic, being interrupted in the middle of a project, bullies, people who waste his time, loud jamming music, having little to no control over a situation, being put down by anyone

Last updated 5/20/24

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

Finding character motivations for everything Talia Al Ghul does and says in Lost Days

People say she was manipulating Jason to be more violent but like... was she?? Why would she be doing that??? She spends years trying to heal him for Bruce and then tries to make him more violent towards Bruce because... ????????

I've read Lost Days a fair few times and it never felt like she was being cruel or manipulative and this has confused the fuck out of me for a long time. Since I'm going to be writing her into my Jason centric fic pretty soon, I figured it would be good to go back to Lost Days and really focus in on her and her character motivations.

This is a post because I do my best thinking through the act of writing essays, and figured someone out there might also be interested.

tl;dr In the text as written Talia does her level best to guide Jason to become a Hero again out of genuine compassion. It is her explicit goal to make Jason less vengeful, less violent, and more like the hero he was before he died. She is not predatory towards him, and the only times she works in ways that could be damaging to him are when she feels her own safety is threatened by him. Talia is depicted as a good but flawed person shaped by the trauma Ra's and the League has put her through.

So yeah, wildly over detailed analysis of everything Talia does and says during Lost Days under the cut:

Scene one: Ra's and Talia yelling dramatically on a lawn right after Talia uses a Lazarus Pit on Jason.

Her stated justification for doing so is "I did--what--needed to be done" (em dashes for choking). Considering she risked a LOT to do this, I figure she's probably telling the truth. She believed this was necessary.

Then we flash back to her first learning about Jason's death. She posits that his death will essentially break Bruce.

In the panels directly after this she's shown looking at a picture of Jason and Bruce, face in hands, clearly upset. Probably primarily for Bruce, but like idk she's an empathic human I feel like it's safe to say she's upset for the kid who died too, especially since the picture centers Jason prominently, with focus/close-up panels on both Bruce and Jason, with Jason's scanning first.

Then we have the sequence of her learning that Jason is still alive, through her agents who have been instructed to keep a very close eye on Bruce.

Her first big decision is to bring him to her Father. She doesn't make any attempt to hide him, so it's either a good idea to her or a necessary one. Ra's obviously wants to figure out how he managed to cheat death, and it seems likely to me, given that she's loyal to him, that she'd also want to do so. She doesn't seem to want him dead, even if she's at odds with him pretty much the whole time to one degree or another.

Then we get her investigating Jason's ressurection and the doctor she's got telling her about his brain damage and the Doc claims he's not getting better

We're just gonna breeze on passed that autistic affect weirdness...

She disagrees.

This is the third time now that Talia has had faith in the humanity and emotional capacity of people the rest of the League write off as being capable of nothing but violence. Considering she's been right the other times it stands to reason that she's right about this too. It also says a lot about her character that this is something she's repeatedly done.

She attempts to prove he's getting better by slapping Jason across the face, declaring, "He never fights back when it's me! Explain that! Never when it's me!"

This strongly suggests that she must treat him differently than the rest of the league, specifically that she treats him with more kindness and more attention. He recognizes her as someone safe, who he doesn't need to fight.

This is further backed up by the next page

Ra's then decides that all this has been a complete waste of time and demands that Jason be put out to pasture so he can't distract Talia from her work for the League.

During this argument Ra's posits that she thinks handing over a healed Jason would make Bruce love her, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think Ra's is misreading her, in exactly the same way all of the League has been misreading everyone all issue: he's failing to understand that people are capable of actual love and compassion. He's interpreting her acts of kindness and love as something manipulative and selfish. Maybe that's something she believes or hopes for on some level, but it's obviously not her "real" motive here like Ra's thinks.

This is what makes her decide that it's necessary to make one last attempt to heal him, and get him out somewhere safer than with the League. It's a desperate last ditch attempt, but she's a competent motherfucker.

The rest of the issue is narrated as a letter Talia sends off with him in the bag of supplies she gives him. In it she says that she had other reasons for attempting to save him.

So, at the end of issue #1 we have three clear motives for why she healed Jason:

To heal Jason is to heal Bruce.

She has a basic sense of decency and wants to help a murdered kid recover. Jason healing is its own reward.

She wants to find out how Jason "survived" so that her Father might be able to replicate that for himself.

Healing Jason might bring her emotionally closer to Bruce.

ALL of these are based in love, and thus could qualify for what she meant in those last few lines of her letter. However, I think I want to emphasis that she almost certainly has to be including love for Jason himself, not just for what Jason represents to Bruce, though Bruce is still a huge focus for her.

And she didn't tell Bruce because Ra's might kill Jason. He doesn't want Batman to know he's alive, ever, and may very well kill Jason to keep that secret.

ON TO ISSUE #2

This is where it gets a lot harder to figure out why she's doing things.

Talia's first act is to refuse to tell Ra's where Jason is. Her second revealed act is that while tossing Jason into the ocean to help him escape she says this:

"Do not seek him out. You remain unavenged."

Third thing she does is check up on her loyal agents who tell her "We know where he's going You're not going to like it." This is immediately followed by the reveal that Jason is going to Gotham.

So uhhhh... Why doesn't Talia want him to go to Bruce now? Also, why does Talia think that being unavenged would mean Jason going to Bruce was a bad idea? Like how is the unavenged bit not a complete nonsequitor?

Cause the thing is, we the audience know what Jason is like in the future, Lost Days was written after UtRH, but Talia doesn't know Jason's personality, she's only met him while he was incapable of communication, so what reason does she have to assume this would impact him like this?

Hypothesis one: She knew about Felipe, thinks he killed him, and thus counts him as a killer of abusers, someone who would want revenge.

Seems pretty unlikely. There's absolutely nothing in the text to support this, it's completely made up conjecture. Also, she doesn't seem to think Jason is the type of person to do revenge all that harshly in later panels.

Hypothesis two: She's counting on the temporary adrenaline-rage-pain boost from the Pit to convince him to be mad about the whole unavenged thing.

Why tho? Like, for realsies, there's no reason for her to try to do this? If this is a plan to keep him away from Bruce, it's a dumb one, like why would that be her choice of strategy?? Also the letter contradicts this.

Hypothesis three: She believes it was wrong of Bruce not to avenge him, or at least thinks that most people would be incredibly angry to find they weren't avenged

Baring her just being fucking precognitive and knowing the future for no good reason, this seems like the most likely cause. Growing up in the League hasn't exactly given her a view of how healthy people handle their anger, and violent retaliation is a nigh daily obstacle for her to navigate. It means she told him that because she thought it was important and she probably always intended to tell him whenever he healed enough to understand it.

Hypothesis four: She assumed him finding out was inevitable, and wanted to do that in a controlled manner... uhhh... and the best controlled manner avaliable was... while flinging him off a cliff??? Instead of in the letter?????

Not buying this one.

We see Jason try to kill Bruce and then get him explaining himself to Talia.

That's... that's not how sociopathic works I'm pretty sure... whateves...

Talia seems to have believed there would have been a fight about the Joker, but not that Jason would have actually tried to kill him. Or at least not that Jason would have tried to really, truly kill him in such a cold, calculated way once all forms of Laz juice were out of his system.

So again, why the fuck was she preventing him and Bruce from meeting?! Would the Dark Knight not have survived a fist fight with an angry sixteen year old??

I don't get it. That's uhhhh- that doesn't make any sense to me. I guess she was just wary of how bad the confrontation might get, but not fully expecting this kind of rage? Maybe she was acting much more confident of her decisions in front of her father and was really worried about this outcome? I dunno, and that's all the evidence we've got!

And now we have a new problem! Why does Talia agree to help him?

She believes she's released a curse into this world. She believes that she has kickstarted a nasty cycle of violence spiral. She doesn't want to see Bruce hurt or killed by his kid.

So the only conclusion left is that she thinks she can better mitigate the damage by helping and misdirecting than she can by actually confronting Jason. Considering who she interacts with, that seems perfectly reasonable.

ON TO ISSUE #3

We get some proper answers here hopefully

Our previous idea about why she was helping him was correct, this is an attempt to keep him less violent, steer him towards other things, and let his desire for revenge fizzle or find a different target.

She's not giving him over to Bruce because Bruce would never forgive her for having kept Jason from him... And also Jason will fucking kill Bruce.

Make special note here of the idea that sex is why she isn't beating the crap out of this guy. Put a pin in that. It'll be important later.

Back down at the murder ranch, Jason finishes killing his teacher and then explains himself

I believe she's genuinely happy about this, because it is actually a step in the direction she wants him to take. He went from being completely obsessed with just killing the father who didn't avenge him, to saving a bunch of kids and delaying his own revenge goals to do it. The tin man IS growing a heart. Her plan is, miraculously, kinda working!

ON TO ISSUE #4

Further proof that her plan is working: Jason leaves Rip, the mercenary driver, alive. He's developing standards for who he is and isn't willing to kill, and those standards are evolving because he is being pushed outside his conflict with Bruce.

His treatment of the bomber's connection with the mob is further proof of this.

That little smile and her gently nudging him towards the idea that he's picking "old habits" back up is very telling. She's guiding him back to the path of actually being a Hero. I think this is meant to imply that Talia is deliberately throwing scumbags towards him to not only distract him, but also to remind him of the heroism he did before he died and give him new purpose beyond mere violence towards Bruce.

And again, her plan is working! He's doing hero stuff!

Aaaaand now we have another curveball. Why show him Tim?

Again, him finding out about this was probably inevitable. He seems more chill, the dark circles under his eyes are gone, I think she's hoping that while in the middle of a new investigation Jason will be in as good a place as she can find to tell him about this.

It's better than mid cliff dive, if nothing else.

Now, to head this off at the pass, because I've seen people assert this in other posts before: this is definitively, absolutely, 100% guaranteed, NOT WHEN TITANS TOWER HAPPENS. He hasn't even come up with using the red hood as a persona when she shows him this picture, so even if he let the extremely time sensitive bombing plot go for a day or two worth of private jetting to beat up the new guy, there's no way in HELL Tim would be able to recognize the Red Hood as Jason. Heck, Tim wouldn't even be with that set of Titans yet, the fucking HUSH plotline hasn't even happened yet!! Okay moving on...

ON TO ISSUE #5

Talia isn't in this one

Jason acts as a Hero. Tim man definitely has a heart.

I really like this plotline tbh, it's just great.

He kills all but one of the Russian mobsters that come to kill him and then he runs out of ammo on the last, and that guy offers up the Joker's location in exchange for his life.

This is when the Tin Man relapses.

ON TO ISSUE #6

CONTENT WARNING FOR DISCUSSION OF CONSENT ISSUES

He hunts the Joker down and fails to kill him. I want to emphasis here, that failing to kill the Joker is a failure to adhere to the morals that Jason has established for himself, and a failure to keep being an anti-hero the way Talia was encouraging him to be.

This is not him being a good guy. This is him getting worse again. This is him failing to care about the world and things other than his own revenge.

Once again he explains himself to Talia, and reveals that he's known for a while now that she's been stalling him.

And then they fuck, and Jason wakes up alone.

So what just happened and why?

First of all I think the fact he KNEW he was being stalled combined with his heroism prior to the Joker being brought up strongly implies that Talia's plan would have kept working and that Jason would have kept letting it work, drawing him more and more into just being an anti-hero. He has a heart, he has morals, but his rage for Bruce and the Joker eclipses those morals pretty completely. Talia's plan was always to guide him away from revenge and it might have worked if he hadn't run out of ammo at the wrong time.

Secondly, Talia has just been given a bunch of reasons to feel threatened. Her plot was revealed, and Jason no longer has reason to believe that she isn't an obstacle to his goals.

Considering the sheer amount of violence that Talia regularly narrowly escapes only through manipulation and leveraging men's emotions, it seems pretty reasonable to me that she'd assume she needed to do both those things in order to protect herself.

She tells Jason about Ra's death, claiming that she's angry with Bruce for that. I don't know if this is the truth, but it would serve this purpose either way. She's giving him reasons to believe she's still on his side. Then she gets emotional leverage on him by sleeping with him. Take that pin out of the fact that she didn't beat that other guy for talking out of turn to her because she was fucking him. Then she escapes while he's asleep and only contacts him again from afar.

She does both of these things because she is afraid that a freshly refocused on vengeance Jason will hurt or kill her if she doesn't. After all, she herself is a killer. Jason might just decide it's her turn to join his other teachers.

The scene of them sleeping together isn't framed as traumatic for Jason; he seems to be perfectly willing.

There two very important questions that need answered before we cast judgments though: Is Jason still a minor when this happens? How old is Talia in comparison to Jason?

The only indication of timeline that we have is that it takes place JUST prior to Hush, as the story ends with Jason meeting Tomas Elliot. According to the Batman Chronology Project, Tim should be 16 during the events of Hush. We know Jason is about two years older than Tim, making him 18 during this scene.

According to Dennis O'Neil "I’m pretty sure that Talia is still a young woman – young by our standards, not just her father’s." According to some random fucker on an ancient comicvine forum going by the handle "brock4618", O'Neil said in a different interview that she was 18 when Bruce kissed her and is about Dick's age, not Bruce's age. I can't find O'Neil saying that, but it does line up with the quote we know is real.

So this was a case of an extremely traumatized 18 year old boy agreeing to sleep with a woman in her twenties after he accidentally made her feel that she needed to use sex and emotional manipulation to protect herself from his possible violent retaliation.

This is still a deeply unpleasant situation, but it's so much better than the initial impression that I got!

CONCLUSIONS TIME

Talia healed Jason because

She's a kind and loving person, and was especially kind and loving when she was younger. She wants to help Bruce, she wants to help Jason, and she wants to help her father. She did it for love.

Talia kept Jason's existence a secret from Bruce because

Her father demanded she keep it a secret, then she was afraid Bruce would hate her for it, and by the time she ought to be warning Bruce about Jason, well he was a scary motherfucker and she was in too deep.

Is Talia portrayed as a sexually predatory monster?

No. A woman using sex to escape violence is not predatory; I will fucking fight you. That whole scenario was bad, but acting like she's evil for this doesn't pan out unless you disagree with some of the facts of the case. It also really doesn't feel like Winick intended for the audience to assume this was predatory. Jason never seems uncomfortable with the fact it happened, and he even gives Jason a bit of beard scruff to help convey that he's older now. (it uh... it didn't work. Because I thought Talia was like 52 at minimum. Also just the timeline. But that was the intent I feel)

Is Talia attempting to make Jason more vengeful?

No. Exact opposite actually, every lie and manipulation is in service of preventing him from going on his vengeance quest, guiding him to be a better person, and protecting herself and others.

As a side note: I haven't touched the potential misogyny or racism angles, because that's simply beyond the scope of this analysis. I don't have the time, energy, or resources to dig into this myself, you'll have to find a different post for that angle, sorry.

So... yeah. That's my findings, I hope at least one other person finds this useful!

[doraambrose]

When it comes to the Victim Blaming Grief coping one of the big things that makes it an issue is that he actually did it to Jason's face (in Hush as it was retconned to be Jason he said that too).

And, when Jason comes back it stops being grief for the dead, it becomes grief for the wounded. And people victim blame people who were hurt too. This is how they cope, however this coping mechanism always hurts the victim and is a genuinely bad coping mechanism that shouldn't be used. It's harmful. It's harmful to the victim and it is harmful for the other people who might be grieving. It's probably one of the most selfish coping mechanisms.

I've experienced people using this method in real life and it's rough. And it's toxic. Saying you can't criticize the way someone grieves is flawed because you are rarely the only one grieving and I personally have been harmed during a period of shared grief. And I am sure other people have been too because grief brings out the bad in people but that doesn't mean all is forgiven.

Like, imagine if Jason was just comatose and all the victim blaming happened and then Jason just woke up and found out all Bruce had been saying about him? Would Jason's feelings be justified then?

Also, saying the deceased person doesn't matter when they die disregards a lot of religious and spiritual beliefs around honoring the dead.

I feel like Jason is as justified as any other person harmed when someone copes with toxic way in being upset. Jason's death is also a traumatic thing that happened to him. Centering Bruce's feelings while disregarding Jason's as unjustified doesn't feel fair. Especially considering the incident where Bruce took Jason to Ethiopia to try to trigger Jason's memories of what brought him back without his consent.

(Sorry if this was a bit much, I've experienced a decent amount of the bad sides of grief in my life and feel strongly about it)

Okay, so I feel like I need to re answer my previous post because I was struggling to find the right words and also at work, but I think I've figured it out.

One thing to keep in mind is when we talk about feelings, grief, and emotions, there's not a set right or wrong. I also mentioned that I don't like the word justified in this case because it sounds like right or wrong. I did use it at the end, but I'll get into that here. This is a very gray area subject matter and that makes it tricky and you're never gonna find an answer that everyone agrees with because it's not really as fact based as if I said "batman wears a cape sometimes" or "dick grayson is nightwing".

The first thing that comes to mind for me is what my therapist tells me when I feel guilt over feelings. She would tell me "anything you're feeling is valid, you're allowed to be upset, angry, sad, jealous, etc. It's how you act on those feelings.. something I can't remember atm lol". So when I say jason isn't justified, I'm saying that he's allowed to be upset and angry and his feelings are valid, it's not right to actively take it out on the family and hold it against them and be sort of malicious or harmful. And i know theyve done that plus some towards him, but its important to remember that you can only control your own actions and even if someone is being toxic and harmful, that doesnt mean you should too. I think I didn't explain that right and there was some miscommunication. I also wanted to explain why I felt that jason would be angry.

As for this comment, both of these asks were right. Grief can be harmful and toxic. And before I say what I'm going to say next, keep in mind that I'm discussing grief alone and not any of the stuff post utrh that Bruce has done to jason that's harmful and abusive. This toxic kind of grief doesn't make the person a bad person. They can't help it. It's your brain going crazy to try and cope with something traumatic. When my dog died, I wanted to sue my vet, even though they didn't really so anything wrong. It's easier to have someone in front of you to blame. I'm not saying it's right or okay, but it does happen and it can be harmful, but you're not a bad person for it. (In Bruce's case, he's a bad person for all the other shit he's pulled outside of this)

I think these two asks are like at the opposite ends of this topic and I think it's something that you can meet in the middle with. So basically

Yes, grief can be toxic and harmful, but it's also very much a subconscious phenomenon and it's extremely personal and different for everyone and alot of times, people are unaware of what they're doing.

Because of that, jason can be hurt by it, he can be angry,etc. His feelings are valid, But it's not fair to activey hold that over Bruce forever, which he doesn't, this seems more like a fanon thing btw. But it also doesn't hurt to apologize afterwards.

I think when you say that the idea of not critiquing the way someone grieves is flawed, it comes off as unempathetic. Because as someone who has had to grieve alot of the past few years, it's the worst feeling. And your brain is literally scrambling to cope with it so you don't actively lose your shit and sometimes it ends up with some unhealthy Coping mechanisms. And you're usually unaware of what you're doing. I feel like you're not thinking of how the other person is feeling or what they're going through. And fair is fair, they need to see what you're feeling too and actively try to remedy things at some point, there just needs to be more patience and empathy all around and trying to remember that this person is not always intentionally being malicious.

I'm a religious person. So I see where youre coming from, but nobody said the deceased doesn't matter. I think the point was more that you don't have to worry as much about how that person is feeling or thinking because they've moved on to a better place, you should focus on self care and doing what's best for your mental health.

I am also 100% not trying to center around Bruce's feelings and discredit jasons, in fact, the last post was 100% about jasons feelings.

In summary, there's not "justified" or "right" or "wrong". It's super complicated, varies from person to person, and is a tricky subject matter. Everyone's feelings are valid and there definitely needs to be more empathy and patience on all sides, but there are still actions that have been made on both sides that aren't the best and can be hurtful or toxic. I hope this all makes sense and I worded it right :)

[kooki914]

How do you think would Noelle and Ralsei interact with each other if they got the chance? What would their relationship bring out of the other?

This is something I've given a lot of thought to, and something I'm still salty wasn't explored at all in Chapter 2. So this post is both going to answer your question as well as be my excuse to write an essay about these two.

The thing is, Noelle and Ralsei are narrative foils to each other. That probably sounds weird on account of the fact that they never interact, but both mechanically and through dialogue, we see parallels form between them. They're both enigmatic, mysterious, while keeping up friendly appearances, while also being literal or figurative royalty in their respective worlds (Noelle is from a rich family and is adored, Ralsei is a prince with no subjects). They're both love interests to the leads (yes, to Kris and Susie BOTH, the snowgrave route is essentially an exploration of a toxic friends-to-lovers but I'm not getting into that here), and they're both rife with religious symbolism, as well as the fact they're both prey animals (in a world where boss monsters like Toriel and Asgore can look more lion-esque, Ralsei's decidedly goat-ish appearance is kind of striking to me). They have the same heal spell (a pray to light) and they're both "passive" in that kind of way a mage usually is in RPGs.

Noelle's arc mainly centers around agency, while Ralsei's arc mainly centers around identity. For all the struggles she faces, Noelle doesn't really have that... crisis of character that Susie and Ralsei are prone to. Even in the snowgrave route, she doesn't question herself, she questions Kris. And, while Ralsei IS an obedient doormat, it's not out of a lack of agency (he shows us as much when he puts his foot down right before the kids open a fountain), it's an active choice he KNOWS he can simply... Not Do (as evidenced by how upset he is with Susie's behaviour in chapter 1 and his epiphany about it in chapter 2, he essentially equates mean behaviour to Purposefully making people around you suffer, instead of a personality quirk or showing of emotion).

It's interesting to think about how they'd complement one another. Not even strictly in a character arc sense (I'll get to that), but just in a... character interaction sense. Noelle has this pattern of putting the spotlight on other people. Even when she talks about herself it's always framed as a way to lift up those around her, while Ralsei has this sneaky way of getting to know you without you even realising (if the rooms he made for Kris and Susie are anything to go by). I think this would result in a dynamics where Noelle (passively, almost accidentally) allows Ralsei to open up in a more genuine way, while Ralsei still tends to Noelle's needs like he does for everyone else.

It's also interesting from a worldbuilding sense. We've seen Ralsei not give a flying fuck about Anyone that isn't directly connected to the prophecy, both for humour reasons and for horror reasons (as seen in the snowgrave route), so giving him a friend that's 1) a lightner, 2) not part of the prophecy, and 3) trying to actually know him on a personal level - it'd probably cause him to actually rethink his worldview. If someone like Noelle, someone who's got nothing to do with the prophecy, can be an important person to him and a good friend to people she doesn't *need* to care about, then why can't he? Can he be someone outside the prophecy? Is his identity and purpose not confined to this, and what does that mean for him in the long run?

And, on Noelle's side of things, Ralsei would probably be a healthier outlet for that feeling of nostalgia she's so addicted to. With him around, she's allowed to just be a kid again. No appearances to keep up, no expectations to fulfill, he's a fresh start and a new friend that she's allowed to be her authentic self around because his existence is essentially rooted in tending to the inner child of all the lightners he comes across. And maybe then she'll be able to let go of the past. Maybe, though viewing her childhood through an outsider's eager point of view, she can see how far away it is, and how she doesn't NEED it to be happy. Things can't be the same, and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe they can be better.

Overall, there's also a... vague "burden of femininity" they both have. They take on emotional labour even when they don't have to, just because that's what's expected of them. I so badly want a Dark Fun Gang-esque arc with these two where they defect from the team and just decide to be bad guys on their own terms for a while. Just because they can, just to see what it brings out of them. And, they'd be complete dorks about it of course, but it'd be nice to see them breaking their moulds with people they don't feel judged by, with friends they don't feel the need to impress because they're already so similar to.

There's this one bit of dialogue I wrote for them for one of my AUs, specifically in the above scenario where they decide to be bad guys for a bit, and I feel I need to share it here because it puts into words something I can't without taking away from the feels of it:

[mathoinyanarts]

Old post, but genuinely still upset about this. The song came on when I randomized my playlist and I felt so sad.

Doing more research into the subject of the band's politics, I found this

And somehow this makes it even worse. The fact that these very charged and emotional songs, like FtM, don't actually have anything to say makes it way worse. You make a song called Change, about how we need to change, but then lead along both sides to get needlessly restless about this supposed other.

Fearmongering the evil man behind the scenes saying "Here's to the greater good for all." when we can't even figure out who that evil man is supposed to represent, is just bullshit.

This song is already very popular with a lot of leftists, with most people having imagined it as the perfect song for their stories about greedy rich capitalists exploiting the workers, but then this song is also made to keep the far-right fanbase happy too.

And Rightoids interpreting songs wrong isn't new, but knowing that the song was made politically vague on purpose to appease the right as well as the left makes things like this frustrating:

Screenshot of a transcript from a really terrible Glenn Beck video. I don't encourage you to read the rest, as he finds terrible ways of linking the lyrics back to his agenda, but this just shows the damage this song is doing.

(Screenshot from Reddit Comment Thread) Imagine thinking that staying in the middle actually gets you anywhere lol. "We promote progress!... How we do that, we don't know!"

Oh, except for when they do let their actual politics leak out occasionally, like this.

(I guess the pro-choice band member from earlier didn't get much of a say for the last line, or he could've been lying about his pro-choice beliefs, or he's a pansy who doesn't truly believe in his ideals enough to object to a line like that being put in.)

Or this:

Tldr for the video, since I'm not linking it, Dave Portnoy is complaining about Governments making small businesses close down for Covid, with PMP quote tweeting it and confirming that yeah, FtM is supposed to be an anti-lockdown song, which still just frustrates me to no end.

I feel like I'm encouraging that behavior by streaming and listening to their songs, showing the algorithm that people want more of this band who doesn't have shit to say in their songs, cause they know they'd lose a big chunk of their audience for their center-right/far-right views.

And I still don't really know what to do. Even if I try to interpret the song the way I want, trying to reclaim it, remembering the original context just frustrates me. Rightoids literally think that at any moment we could be one socialist president away from living in a factory state that exploits the poor, rather than the more feasible and right-around-the-corner future of living in a Corporate dystopia that liberally feeds the poor to the "machine."

How do you reason with somebody like that? How do you reason with somebody for whom the boogeyman that their mind has made up has gotten so big and scary for them? How do you tell them that their boogeyman isn't there when they truly believe with all of their hearts until the day they die that the boogeyman is still there, waiting to "destroy the nuclear family" "destroy all that is good and holy" "destroy tradition" "destroy our hard work"

This reminder of what goes on in their mindset just sours the song so much for me.

Really disappointed rn to find out that "Feed the Machine by Poor Man's Poison was actually supposed to be about teh socialist dems making you stay home from Covid, and not the cool pro-worker anthem that I thought it was, or that many of it's fans thought it was, or that the songwriters might've thought it was.

[egg-emperor]

You're the Eggman guru so I'm interested in how you feel about people portraying Eggman having a sort of ''father-son'' relationship with Metal Sonic. I feel like Eggman does care about Metal Sonic a lot more compared to other things he's made (And is most definitely proud of it since Metal is his greatest creation) and he's willing to put up with Metal's occassional rebelling and put him back in his place, but I also feel like people also make it out to be a lot... Softer, I guess? I want to hear your thoughts on this and how you see their relationship.

I'm honored to be given the title of Eggman guru, thank you! XD 💜🥚

The father and son dynamic is canon to Archie and IDW and so I have no inherent issues with it existing there, or the people that enjoy it. I'm not as super into it as everyone else seems to be, in most cases, too much family talk be it blood-related or not is personally uncomfortable to me in excess lol but I can enjoy the dynamic to an extent. They look good together and there has been pretty cute moments, I don't mind them in the small amounts they show and it's really the fandom that makes it out to be a lot softer than it actually is. I still don't think Eggman would genuinely act like a full time father to Metal, have an extreme amount of emotional attachment, and certainly not empathy for him as I don't think he has it in him. (That last part does seem to be true even for IDW Eggman, as he doesn't actually get upset when Metal is destroyed in Imposter Syndrome #4, he cared and reacted more than that only as Mr. Tinker. I like that.)

But as for game Eggman, the dynamic is nonexistent and I don't think that should suddenly change. It wouldn't make sense and I think it would be out of character if portrayed in the same way it has been in Archie and IDW for the most part. If you're curious as to why in more depth, I made a post with examples showing how he really isn't all that caring towards Metal in the games and you can read it here. I wish more people would acknowledge that he hasn't been particularly kind and caring in the games, in fact quite the opposite. The closest you could say it's been in a game are the Olympics team up intro moments, renders, and special animation but they're spin-offs and I don't think having his robot on his team and patting him on the back immediately implies a father and son dynamic between them lol

Game Eggman has never referred to himself as Metal's father and he doesn't act and care for him like one, so I have no reason to think so and I really don't think it would fit him the way the majority of fans like it. He doesn't have any emotional feelings or empathy for any robots in general because he easily yells at and hits them, calls them junk and other insults, and will easily threaten and destroy them when they disappoint him, he no longer has any need for them, or he just gets impatient and bored, without hesitation or remorse. I touched on this in better words here. With all this in mind, I'd hope he doesn't see them as like kids to him because yeahhh... Even with that aside, let's be real, he wouldn't be a good father figure in general, given how deeply selfish and self centered he is. He doesn't have the time or care for anyone else. I really can't see him being interested and it's a good thing as he's not suitable for it.

I do think that Metal Sonic is one of his most prized creations above his mass produced robots and prides himself for him being one of his greatest creations. But it's not love and care for him as if he's a living being, it's just pride he feels for him being his own creation and one of his most impressive. When he praises him, he's praising himself as his creator. But he still doesn't let him rebel without punishment and has even carelessly abandoned him more than once, not just for rebelling but also just for failing him in other times. While he would understandably like to salvage him in most cases, he can always replace him with another model and won't hesitate fleeing a scene without bothering to try to take him with him. And he evidently doesn't have an attachment to any specific model either way, as sometimes he clearly doesn't want to keep him and abandons him entirely by choice.

But I do at least think that if the dynamic had to exist in any way in the games, then him acting like Metal is a son to him and praising and rewarding him in some ways when he does things right could be something he'd try as a way to keep him motivated and loyal so he won't rebel, kind of like how he tried to with Gamma. But I can only see him doing it mildly, he'd still idle him when he doesn't need him instead of letting him wander around his living space like a genuine family member, wouldn't be that serious about calling himself his daddy, and wouldn't feel a genuine emotional attachment or empathy for him. Then it could feel more faithful and in character for game Eggman, certainly not very pure like most people want it to be but it would actually be pretty interesting to me XD

[lucy90712]

Firstly, congrats on 300, friend!

Secondly, I'd like to request for your event :]

I have a couple of requests, and obviously you don't have to do all of them, (or any at all!) but I thought it'd be nice to request as one :] (plus my little ideas for establishing the relationship and stuff)

-

IDEA ONE: 'general vocal insecurities', Wilbur Soot

Since first learning of the fact, one of your biggest insecurities has been centered around the knowledge that your voice sounds different to you while speaking than it does to other people, that insecurity spiraling into something even worse after you heard what your voice actually sounds like. After listening to that recording, all you can ever think of while talking is the obnoxious tone that you speak in--the all-too-awkward, sickly sweet pitch that makes you want to throw up from hearing it.

Needless to say, this extends to your singing voice, too. As a kid, you were always complimented for it, and thus liked it a lot. You liked how it sounded to you as if it were a deeper, smoother tone than the one all the other kids your age. Now, all grown up, it still sounds low in the moment, but you can never get the thought out of your mind that it sounds as high as your normal speaking tone, if only the slightest bit lowered in pitch. It's made you entirely reluctant to sing on your own, let alone in front of others.

Now you have Wilbur. All of his friends, too, but your focus is mostly on him. His singing voice sounds nearly identical to the way you want to hear yours in your head, only at a lower tone, and he is not afraid to show off that gift of a singing voice. Whether it be spontaneously bursting into song at the sound of you mentioning a word that the chorus contains, or singing passionately while you watch him and his band practice, he always seems to be so comfortable giving it somewhat close to his all around you. Until you tell him about how terribly insecure you are, he just thinks you don't like singing.

"How are you so... confident in your voice? Even when it comes to stupid things like squealing the words to Let It Go alongside Tommy, you always sound so perfect and you sing like you know it. I can't even speak without hating the tone, so how do you do it?"

IDEA TWO: 'personality-related imposter syndrome', Karl Jacobs

You've always been told what a nice person you are. How kind you are to everybody, how you apologise the second you unintentionally hurt someone. Hell, you even automatically offer distractions for upset people so they don't have to feel the shame of being vulnerable in front of others! Your neverending kindness is always the first thing mentioned when describing you. People adore you for your kind, occasionally soft nature.

Everybody believes you're the sweetest person ever--except for you. You understand that you're kind, you understand that everybody only sees the outside where you're being kind without a second thought, but you don't feel as if it's genuine. Even though you do these nice things out of the pure kindness of your heart, as if it was more an instinct than a conscious decision, you always feel like you're faking it. You feel as if you're secretly only doing it out of fear of people hating you otherwise, even though that sickening feeling of guilt that you get every time you see someone cry is definitely genuine. You're stuck in a state of questioning whether you are the real you, and not just some kind front that you've put up to avoid the hatred of others.

Karl, however, sees you without thinking that you're faking it. He doesn't ever wonder if you're helping that old lady out of fear of her judgement, but sees it as it is--the pure instinct to help. He's so confused about how you could ever see yourself as the liar that you say you are, especially when you always seem so certain in the idea that your kindness is a lie.

"You, Karl, you're nice out of nature. But I feel like I'm only ever being nice to avoid being hated, and it absolutely sucks! I feel like the embodiment of the words 'people pleaser', and I feel like it's so easy to see how my mind runs trying to figure out how to avoid being shunned!"

IDEA THREE: 'general physical (facial and body) insecurities + a bit of envy', Quackity (slightly chubby reader, in this case)

You take insults to heart, no matter how sugarcoated or playful they are. Good thing that you grew up with friends that were willing to insult you constantly under the guise of boyish, playful jokes. "hey, whale!", "your face is ugly as hell" and "if you weren't as fat, I think you'd be much better looking"; the basic examples of what they'd say. They brushed it off as jokes, and you did too, not realizing how deeply it affected you.

Your views on yourself fluctuate in between 'decent' and 'absolutely abhorrent', depending on the days, really. Sometimes you can stand to look in the mirror, but other times you feel the need to avoid seeing yourself for days. (If y/n is a streamer) Sometimes, you'll be streaming, notice yourself in the viewfinder, and immediately turn off webcam, leaving chat to be confused while you continue streaming.

Now there's Quackity. A pretty guy, you'd say. And all of his pretty friends. They're all wildly different, but they have one thing in common, and that is the one thing you feel you do not have. Beauty. He's heard you call him and his friends pretty thousands of times, but not once has he heard you say it when looking in the mirror. Even when he says it to you, it feels like it was directed toward someone else. You'll accept him complimenting your personality, but when he calls you 'pretty' you cannot help but to shake your head.

"How come you're so pretty and I'm just... Ehh? I feel like I don't deserve you, to be honest."

-

(p.s. she/her pronouns would be nice, but I'm completely fine with they/them pronouns too! :D)

Also, I hope you're having a lovely day/night!

Thank you, kind human!

I decided to do all 3 so sorry this took ages to post I didn’t want to spam them all in one day but here’s the link to all 3

wilbur

karl

quackity