#i'll still read theories about vecna being el's dad

[chirpsythismorning]

Willel truther anon here. Scary thought. Not Willel twin AND Vecna's children. Twins with powers and... and their dad is the dark wizard? I know this show is different but that plot twist would be TOO much Star Wars!! I'm all for Willel twin, Jane and William Hopper. Please, Duffers, be original🤞

Yeah I'm not a henry father truther, I think that the evidence pointing to it comes off as misdirect in the same way milkvan does. They gave them some superficial queues, and a lot of people picked up on it.

Henry's got like 3 identities rn as it is though. I do think that he is 100% due for backstory in s5 that will get the audience to sympathize with him heavily, and give us answers into how the lab's understanding of what's going down in the present, all goes back to the origins of the lab itself, specifically MKUltra and then the rainbow room. I also think it's possible that his familial relation is a lot more likely tied to the Wheelers, than the Byers or the Wheelers AND the Byers. I just don't see a point in connecting El to that as well along with Mike (beyond the cousin irony), regardless of Will being her twin brother or not.

Like this dude rn who is referred to as Henry/001/Vecna does not need the addtion of 3+ more titles. We have time for Henry in s5 and I do think he'll play a big role, but he's not the answer to every single revelation, with a different tie to all of them by blood.

There's too many signs pointing to Terry not being El's mother. And that means their mom has to be Joyce. And while I could consider Lonnie, there's a lot of signs he's also not quite what he seems and I think that just like Terry, he's a dead end. Terry was likely an ally in the past, and Lonnie was likely... not. I think he was an MKUltra experiment that was willing to lie and go along with anything for money.

And with them making a point to focus on Joyce and Hopper in the prequel, both 17 and presumably also alongside Lonnie and even Henry who was 13 at the time... It's very much giving Back to the Future shenanigans, ie. George and Lorraine vs. Biff fucking shit up in the bad timeline, taking the place of George their father... And yet, he's not actually their father....

I feel the need to make clear that, it's too confusing to have the same set of twins or even one child, be birthed from different parents, in different timelines. While I can acknowledge infinite universes exist hypothetically, doing something like this, by having El and Will be twins in one timeline and not in another and with different parents also, would go way beyond suspension of disbelief.

In Back to the Future, if the parents didn't kiss at the dance in 56', the kids weren't born, it was that simple! Marty and his siblings started to disappear in a photo together, knowing they would cease to exist by the end of the night if it didn't happen. And even though they do make it through, in the sequel directly following, Biff has taken their father's place. Now, that doesn't mean that Lorraine and Biff managed to birth the exact same kids as George and Lorraine in a different timeline. All that happened was, somewhere along the way, things got mixed up. And with the implications of MKUltra and Henry having ahold of time powers in some capacity, I think it would be easy to make a family or even a whole town cursed and tricked into believing anything (reminder this town is being listened to and referred to as being cursed A LOT...).

I could see maybe 1-2 more huge arcs for him. I do think that he had a a similar introduction to Joyce and Hopper into the lab (I talk about how I think they were involved here), but it's likely in his case, the lab used conversion therapy to take advantage of him and from his family that wanted to fix him bc he was 'broken'. I think it's likely his backstory is that he got out of there in his late teens early twenties, but ended up back in after a vulnerable experience in the world, and with Brenner and the lab taking advantage of it, luring him back in AGAIN.

However, I don't think this kid we focused on at 13 in s4, and who wer'e presumably going to see again at 13 in the prequel, is going to be revealed in s5 through 60s flashbacks of him turning into a sperm downer to birth a dozen kids, nor even just Will and El. I think he relates to them for obvious reasons being they are lab kids who think they are a mistake (queerness/otherness), and that was obviously being taken advantage of.

I guess I'd have to see what happens in the prequel to decide for sure how I feel. The prequel wasn't even announced when these theories started popping up after twelvegate. And so to have Joyce and Hopper be revealed as a focus was a little bit ironic to me.

It's canon which means that there are bound to be things that happen that have the potential to make us rethink/re-understand certain things we might have assumed up this point.

I won't rule out anything bc like yeah they could pull a Luke I am your father card (not literally, but you know what I mean). And yet, I do think there's heavy evidence for Hopper and Joyce and Will and El and Jon and them being watched from the very first episode, which feels more substantial to me given how this will all presumably go back to s1 and answering questions they left unanswered back then ie, Hopper in the shed lights flickering??

If the ending being beautiful and surprising was about found family, then that wouldn't exactly make sense, since every season has given us that impression, with it being obvious by s3-4. And so that's not surprising, as they've already been found-family in canon for years.

Whereas a family being torn apart by a lab via mind control and time implications, and seeing how despite that they still kept finding their way back to each other, that's beautiful and surprising to me.

I do think it gives Star Wars (+1000 other movie inspirations), but not entirely in the sense that it's going to carry out the most cliche trope connected to SW.

Seriously, I just rewatched Toy Story 2 the other day and that Buzz scene with his dad near the end had me dreading the prospects of Henry being El's dad. The I am your father revelation is treated like a big joke. It's like the first thing you think of when you think about Star Wars. The twin aspect on the other hand, is something that still causes a lot of debate and has created this sort of hilariously confusing element to the story, which ST, by using Star Wars as inspiration from the very beginning, means they knew about that twin revelation, and were able to subtly joke about it from the very beginning, making it even more epic in ST case than it ever was for SW.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.! Not sure when the prequel will for sure be available to the public, but there's bound to be a few important revelations necessary to be ready for what's about to come next.

[willel]

Vecna and his choice of victims

This has probably already been written before but I've had some more thoughts since the play. I also have like, 20 asks people have sent in that i haven't answered and I'm pretending to not see until I figure out what I want to say in response >.> (I do appreciate the asks but phew my brain juices are running low. Ha)

Most of this is related to season 4 so I won't be putting them under a read more now. I'll also be making a lot of assumptions here.

I hadn't known until now but apparently people have been getting into fights because of their theories and well, I don't want any part of that. THESE ARE JUST THOUGHTS~. I'm not an ST writer and I have no idea where they're going with things, so let's just chill and have a chat alright?

General assumptions

I know I and some others have discussed this in the past, but it's pretty obvious Henry is deeply connected to El and Will. He has a lot of parallels with them. Not just surface levels ones either, they seem pretty intentional and the writers/actors themselves have been hinting at it.

But what if it doesn't stop there? What if he relates to ALL his victims which is why they were chosen in the first place? What if it's not just "they were teenagers suffering" but it's a specific kind of suffering he could relate to?

#1: Chrissy.

Chrissy was suffering from bulimia and it seems one of her major triggers was her mother constantly talking about her weight. In Vecna's depiction of her mother, she was called a fat pig, her mom constantly readjusted her clothes at the sewing machine so they would "fit". Her father was either dense as hell or refused to see what was happening since his eyes were sown shut in Chrissy's waking nightmare. Food was depicted as rotten and disgusting, which is probably how she felt due to her eating disorder caused by her family situation.

With the extra bits we've gotten from the play and what was in the show itself, I believe Henry faced a similar situation. He was going through stuff and his mother was unsupportive and visibly disgusted by him. Even though Henry and his mother obviously had a tense and extremely negative relationship, Henry's dad Victor seemed completely unaware of what was going on or refused to acknowledge it.

When Victor retold what happened to his family, in his opinion, his life was pretty picturesque. I haven't heard many details about Victor in the play but he completely glossed over all of his son's odd behavior or why they even moved to Hawkins in the first place. In fact, he thought his son was sensing the danger rather than his son BEING the danger.

It's almost 1 to 1 of Chrissy's home life. Terrible mother child dynamics. Emotionally absent father. Irrelevant sibling.

#2: Fred.

We know a lot less about Fred's home life, but there's still a little bit we can pick apart from what we do know. We know that Fred was involved in some kind of accident a year or so ago. Instead of helping his fellow victim in the crash, Fred ran all the way home, terrified. Either people blame him for the other victim's death or he blames himself so harshly that he believes others blame him (guilt basically).

If I stretch things a bit, it sorta lines up with Henry hurting a kid at school while he lived in Nevada before moving to Hawkins maybe?

Or maybe it's that situation they created with Patti in the play with Principal Newby? I don't know all the details but Patti blamed Henry for what happened right? At least temporarily.

When Fred has his vision in the woods, a little girl grows a weird ugly finger and starts the "Murderer" chant. Maybe that's similar to Henry's sister Alice approaching him and telling him he's a different person now?

This one is a stretch I realize, but hey.

#3: Patrick.

This one is pretty similar to Chrissy situation but in reverse I suppose. It's not Patrick's mother that's the problem, but his dad. When Henry selected Patrick as his target, we heard Patrick's dad basically call him worthless. Lucas mentions Patrick coming into practice with bruises sometimes and feels bad for not being there for Patrick more having realized belatedly what was going on.

I don't believe Henry was physically abused by his parents, BUT "Papa" certainly was. Brenner, the obsessed scientist weirdo has done plenty of things to Henry and the rest of the kids so I'm sure I don't need to go into detail.

We've even seen him berate El multiple times for not doing what he wants. He even tried to pin blame on her for everything that was happening in season 4 before she rightly pushed the blame right back on his shoulders. (and then he stabs her with a needle and puts a shock collar on her.)

Maybe it doesn't match up for you but I dunno, I think that lines up pretty evenly.

#4: Max.

Unsurprisingly, Max's situation is what triggered this entire post. I was just thinking, "All these people moving to Hawkins and it kinda sucks there." Then a light bulb went off. "Wait, Max also had to move to Hawkins because of something Billy did." And it spiraled from there. Nevada isn't California, but I bet Billy, Max, and Henry all preferred living where they were before they had to move to Hawkins.

I wouldn't exactly call moving across the country traumatic, but Henry could possibly relate to Max's feelings of isolation and moving with your dysfunctional family so that things would "get better" but they do not get better at all.

If we look at the play again and coat Max and El a little bit in Patti and Henry's colors, then I guess Henry and Max can relate to the isolation of losing your closest friend, but that's a stretch I admit.

I could make another header for Billy but I think I'll just leave him in Max's section since the situation is pretty identical. Billy is a mixture of Max and Patrick, he's way closer to Henry's situation than Max is.

#5: El.

This one is so obvious that I don't need to go into detail but it still needs to be said. Henry and El's stories are extremely similar. The super powers. The lab. Brenner. The kidnapping and isolation in general. The experimentation. Being forced to kill things. Afraid of hurting people because of your powers.

She even shares the "being separated from the people you care about" stuff, she's had to deal with that multiple times on repeat.

Luckily for El, all of her real parents are chill (Terry, Hopper and Joyce) so in that regard, other than Hopper being a punk bitch a few times, she's been blessed there.

#6: Will.

Finally we get to Will. It's interesting how different Will and Henry's stories are and yet they're also so similar.

Will has an amazing mom but an absentee dad. It's hard to say what is worse between Henry and Will's situations but at least Will had support at all with Joyce.

Apparently, Henry also disappeared once into the Upside Down and returned a completely different person. Not only that, apparently Henry was possessed by the Mind Flayer in the same manner that Will was. This is so obviously related to Will's story that I don't think I need to expand on it.

Like El and Max, Will also had the pain of moving away from most of the people he cared about, though this pain is very understated for Will in the show. Will seems pretty content with just having his family and long distance friends even though the long distance friendship was secretly eating at him too.

Apparently in the play, Virginia forced Henry to visit the "doctor" (lab) like Joyce did to Will. Someone described it as almost exactly like the beginning of season 2. Not only was Henry's lab experience just like El's, but Will's as well. Luckily, Will's doctor was Owens and not Brenner, though I'm sure Brenner was watching (I got an ask related to this btw I will get to it because I wanna talk about this more)

If Henry's life was segmented into parts, then it'd be "before the UD", "after the UD", "before the murders" and "after the murders"

Chrissy, Patrick, Max and Fred are all "after the UD" and "before the murders". A part of Henry's life that is seemingly drastically different than the life he had before.

El is "after the murders". His life in the lab leading into who he is today.

Will is.... a little bit of everything. He was Henry "before the UD" and "after the UD", that transition into a different person specifically after the UD experience. He's also "after the murders" when he's possessed by the MF and "before the murders" when he's a little bit of a lab rat at Hawkins before things go south.

Through the circumstances of the show, Will has literally become the closest person to Vecna. They'll likely understand each other more than anyone else, which kinda sucks for Will.

But I suppose the fundamental difference between them will be.... El. Funnily enough. You know how Henry (and Kali) taught El that hatred and sadness is the key to becoming more powerful? Well, El has already discovered that love is infinitely more powerful.

Not only that, El has chosen her friends and family. She rejected Henry. She rejected Kali. But there is one kid she hasn't rejected that could really use her insight on breaking through the pain to find something greater.

[vivi-wtz]

The Kas Theory (Stranger things)

This post will contain sooo many spoilers for season 3 and 4 of stranger things, reading on ur on risk

I have some many thoughts on this one, I hope my thinking makes sense in the end.

Okay, I am pretty sure that everyone who watch "Stranger Things" and fell in love with Eddie Munson heard about this theory already. But in case u haven't heard it yet, I'll explain it to u real quick.

In the game dnd, there is this one character call Kas. They are some sort of the right hand of Vecna. But then Kas turns against Vecna and defends him (or helps to defend Vecna? Idk correct me if I'm wrong).

And many people who love Eddie Munson (me included) believe that Eddie becomes some Kas anecdote and will save the day in the following season of "Stranger things". But hear me out:

I saw this Tiktok like a few days ago and it got me thinking. What if Billy is the Kas anecdote? I mean think about it. To become someone's right hand kinda thing, that someone needs to trust u, which needs some time yk? I mean I wouldn't let anyone be my right hand if I do not genuinely trust them. And idk how many months will be between season 4 and season 5 but since the doors to the upside down are already open, I dont believe that it will be as much as between season 3 and 4 yk. So Eddie would have less time to "bound" with Vecna than Billy would have had. And I bet Vecna also knows that Eddie fought his bats (I mean the wounds seem kinda obvious to me). And we know Vecna isn't stupid so he probably connects the dots and knows Eddie isn't on his side.

BUT BILLY ON THE OTHER HAND?! Not only was he already some kind of doll for Vecna, so Vecna kinda still has the connection to Billy (just like Will yk what I'm on about?), but Billy also never seemed to connect with the "Anti-Vecna" group, which is probably also shown in the memory of Billy. So Vecna knows that for sure. And adding to this Billy would also have had enough time to "gain" some trust from Vecna (more like prove himself to Vecna). I mean how many months were between the timeline of season 3 and the timeline of season 4? 8 months? That sounds pretty accurate to me.

I mean hear me out. I love Eddie.. I mean I really fucking love him more than myself. And I really wish for him to somehow come back in season 5 but folks u need to agree with me. This Billy-being-Kas-theory of me makes fucking sense..

And yes I know Vecna could just whoop Eddie's ass and make him do whatever he wants him to do. But Vecna is not stupid, like I said before! And he already had that mind controlling connection with Billy which will probably makes it easier for Vecna to get into Billy's mind? And even when Billy and Eddie had both a rough upbringing, I think Billy had it a bit rougher. I mean at least Eddie had a father like figure, friends who like him for him and his trauma (the "loss" of his parents, probably bullying yk) didn't got any deeper (I mean, yes he got still bullied but he had friends, he wasn't alone, yk?). But Billy on the other side, his mother left him alone with his abusive dad, who also were his only father figure. He only had friends because of his looks and the popularity he got because of it. And because his dad is shit, his trauma got deeper with everytime, Billy's dad laid hand on him, yk? So the bad things in Billy's life, his loneliness and the fact that he went to all that basically alone probably clouded his mind and also makes it even easier for Vecna to get in his fucking mind.

And also yes, in the end of season 3 Billy sacrificed himself for El. But only because she found a good memory. And do u all remember how long it fucking took her to find it (which would basically prove my theory that I pointed out before)? In addition to Vecna knows how strong El is, so there is a high chance that El could just faked the memory to make Billy "submissive" to her plans. U get this?

But I mean folks, who am i kidding? We all know the duffer brothers are freaking stupid (I mean they killed the best character yk) and tbh I don't believe they thought about this, so I guess eddie it is (I mean I'm happy, but I would make so much more sense with billy... waisted potential in a good plot if u ask me)

Anyway, I really do hope, that y'all get what I meant.. I mean I know this is a lot of information and I really tried to give my rambling thoughts some structur. But on case it didn't work and u have some questions, just ask me.

Anyway, bye bye, kissies y'all