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something-about-sunflowers · 2 years ago

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so using circumstantial evidence to accuse an entire group of fans of being responsible for anonymous harassment is bad when it happens to you guys, but it’s ok when you guys do it to people who hate izzy?

circumstantial evidence

noun

: evidence that tends to prove a fact by proving other events or circumstances which afford a basis for a reasonable inference of the occurrence of the fact at issue

Now, Anon, I'm not sure what definition of 'circumstantial evidence' you are going by but this is the one I'm going by and given it's backed by Merriam Webster I'm gonna assume it's the correct one.

So.

'Circumstantial evidence', in this case would be:

'I made a post that was negative about Izzy' ➡ 'People who are Izzy positive responded to it' ➡ 'I am later doxxed' ➡ 'Izzy fans must be the ones who doxxed me'.

If you'd like to compare:

'We make posts that are positive about Izzy' ➡ 'People who are Izzy negative respond to them' ➡ 'One of us was doxxed/we receive anon hate' ➡ 'Izzy antis must be the ones who doxxed them/are sending them'.

On the surface they do look similar, I'll give you that, but Anon? We have direct evidence that the doxxing on our side and the anon hate we receive comes from Izzy antis.

Direct evidence meaning 'proof of fact'.

The content of the messages we receive explicitly tells us why it's being sent to us. They directly mention Izzy and our enjoyment of him as a character. The person who got doxxed on our side? Their doxxer admitted to sending it because they enjoyed Izzy (and 'dead dove content') and they explicitly expressed intentions to do it to other Izzy fans.

Now, again, unless there is some context missing from op's posts about the content of the message they received, nothing about said message says anything about why it was sent. The screenshot I've seen says some variation of 'your full name and address are xxxxx' and that's it. No mention of Izzy or fandom in general.

Direct evidence vs circumstantial evidence.

All that aside: we don't, actually, 'accuse an entire group of fans of being responsible for anonymous harassment'. If any of you listened at all when we speak about it you'd know this. We may compare the repeated interjections of some of you coming onto our posts/into our tag to harassment, because to some degree it is, but that's not 'an entire group of fans' that's a very specific few of you who go out of your way to make sure other people can't have a good time when they could just block the people who enjoy and post about the things they hate instead (which is something we do a lot of on this side, the blocking).

Something we actually do, and this I suspect is what you might be implying, is point out how our serial harasser uses some of your in-group's favorite talking points. This isn't to say that they are one of you but simply that they repeat your rhetoric and that it's worth examining on your end if someone spewing such consistent hate is agreeing with you on their biggest talking points.

We also ask your end to condemn the anon hate because, as they primarily agree with most of your talking points, seeing that they're not welcome in the groups they clearly want to be in is incentive for them to stop sending hate. It shrinks their platform. The more people going 'hey, that's not okay' the more likely they are to stop because they either 1. realize they have nobody in their corner or 2. realize that there's a reason they're not in the majority and that its because what they're doing is actually morally incorrect.

You'll notice, if you care to pay attention, that every single Izzy fan that's spoken of the doxxing on your end has condemned it. Not a single one of us wants someone like that in our spaces. Every single one of us has acknowledged that it's a horrible thing to go through and that we wouldn't wish it on anybody.

We do not get that same response from yall.

I'll leave you with this: doxxing is a crime. Levying an accusation of a serious crime at people on, at best, circumstantial evidence is dangerous to the people being accused. It could inspire retaliation. It's also dangerous for the op to be assuming that this is all fandom related when they, in the very next breath, speculate it could be their ex who 1. has a history of stalking them, by their own admission and 2. again, by their own admission, knows where they live.

Brushing it off as some petty fandom drama when they could be being targeted again by their ex is dangerous and they should be focusing on their own safety. If it was fandom related then that's a much less serious situation because these types of things don't tend to move beyond scare tactics. It's still awful and still something to be concerned about but it's not as serious or concerning as someone who they know potentially has access to them and who has gone to those lengths before.

And one more time, let me reiterate: If the person who doxxed them is in our circles? That is unacceptable behavior and you are not welcome here.

#the dork is being a dork #the dork answers #the izcourse #this is the last time i'm gonna speak on this #if you've got more to say anon then fucking argue with the wall

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notquitekate · 9 months ago

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Speaking as someone who has seen a both a psychiatrist and neuropsychiatrist and is officially diagnosed with ASD (among other things), you don't speak for all of us. Stop using autism as an excuse for your benefit, and stop giving it a bad name on the internet. If you'd be so kind, point out to me where Saint or Rosie explicitly mention that Winndy wasn't welcome in the server for having autism. Show me where they (or anyone on the moderation team) are being ableist and attacking Winndy for being autistic. Stop infantilizing and summarizing all of Winndy's actions as just "having autism", and let them own up to their actions. It's disgusting.

I get that Winndy is passionate about their characters which often leads to them talking over others because of their autism. I'm like that too when it comes to my specific interests. But what I don't get is how this has anything to do with ignoring major warnings given by a moderator and not heeding their advice, the guidelines, or everyone's wishes to keep things private. You know, the entire point of this post? It's clear that Winndy is upset about how the moderators dealt with the situation (coming to Winndy at the wrong time and dismissing their feelings), not because they were attacking Winndy for something they couldn't control.

It's hypocritical that you'll berate Saint for disregarding Winndy's vulnerable state, but when the same thing happens to them, you see it as Saint being apathetic. Why don't you take your own advice and put yourself in Saint's shoes? If you do, you'll notice that it's the exact same position as Winndy. They lost someone close to them and had their vulnerable state completely ignored and dismissed. The only difference is that Winndy didn't even bother to ask if they needed space or if they were in a place where they could deal with their concerns. From what I can see, they simply moved on and ignored their feelings while prioritizing their own. Again, stop excusing and infantilizing Winndy's actions and let them own up to it. Or at the very least, stop being so hypocritical.

You say this should be handled privately with just Winndy and the moderators, and I agree. You have no place in this, much like me. We shouldn't be giving our opinions on a matter that, in fullness, doesn't concern us in any way. But if you want to make assumptions and throw false accusations, at least talk to someone on the moderation team first. Hell, even contact Saint instead of formulating your opinions based on a one-sided viewpoint. I'm only adding to your message because you keep using autism as an excuse, and it's disgusting given the current negative stigma we have placed on us by neurotypical people. Show your support by creating a community where Winndy can feel accepted, not by throwing accusations and claims against people you have no relations or context on whatsoever.

Take your own advice. You do better.

Winndy, if you read this, I want you to know that watching you handle this entire situation from your Krow blog has been a deeply upsetting experience. I've been a fan of your yandere for almost a year now, and seeing how you shamelessly vague the 14 Days With You blog, make callout posts with the intention of slandering others, allow your friends to spread misinformation and negativity, and completely dismiss the feelings of others is what finally made realize that I no longer want to support you. Even from the screenshots you've provided from the moderator, I can see that they only had good intentions towards you. When they gave you space you chose to ignore it and continued to argue and belittle them. Instead of considering the comfort of others in the 14dwy server, you blamed it all on autism and completely disregarded how they might be feeling whenever you treat them like that (have you once considered that maybe they might be autistic too?). Instead of simply removing (what I assume was originally an inside joke about) the chicken nugget meme from Krow's lore, you turned it into some kind of immature game to toy with your fans. This has all left a bad taste in my mouth and I can no longer enjoy Krow for what he's worth, especially now that I know that his creator likes to act this way. For the sake of everyone else who still follows you, I hope that you can do better in the future and learn from your actions. I've already unfollowed you here and I'll be doing the same from @toomanynotifsivemoved once I remember my password. If it comes down to it, I may eventually block you as I want to remain in the indie vn community but I don't want to see posts from someone who uses autism as a scapegoat.

That's all I have to say.

I did not wish to make this, I do not wish to bring bad light to others, so I am doing everything I can in this statement to keep it as vague as possible to grant others the same privacy I should have. But because my privacy was not respected I have no choice but to come forward with this.

If you know what I am talking about, then this is my side of things. If you don't know what I am talking about, then please move on.

(Also to note, I realize what day I am posting this on. This is absolutely NOT a joke.)

To preface this. My dad died suddenly Feb 26th. I cannot begin to detail what it feels like to lose him, after I've lost many others, to try and handle my emotions and grief while also handling the logistics of his belongings and estate, all this while having to write this on top of it. If I come across as intense, this is why.

I was in a discord server when it first opened. I dedicated a lot of time, energy, art and passion to it. I was even a mod at one point but stepped down due to my own reasons.

While there, we had an anonymous survey posted to gather information from the community about the server, what we could do to improve, what was liked and so on. Instead, some used it as a means to anonymously complain about members. I was a target of these complaints.

A quick note. This server was made within a community that has suffered MANY hardships due to anons. Keep this in mind.

One of the rules is that if you have a personal grievance with another member, to try to resolve it through DMs before coming to a mod or to even send in a ticket.

I must be clear; I was NEVER DMed by anyone how I made them uncomfortable. Not once. Nor were these complaints directly messaged to the mods. This was all through the survey (I will touch up more on this later).

I and other staff/mods that used to be on the team suggested we remove the anonymity. It's too risky for it to be abused, because as noted earlier, this community has suffered a lot through abuse from anons. This suggestion was ignored.

Now, I suppose I should say what the complaints were about. I was told I made others uncomfortable due to, and I am paraphrasing here; "talking over others, redirecting conversations back to myself and my ocs, and making too many jokes and insults about characters."

I will also say. I am autistic. What was mentioned are signs of someone with autism. My dad was autistic. I do not bring this up to deflect or excuse anything, merely to give further context.

I want to explain a bit of my process when I interact with others, in this case especially pertaining to an online space.

When I am talking with someone, anyone, I try to be as inclusive and welcoming as I can be. Saying hello, how they’re doing, that sort of thing. But a conversation is a two way street. If I don’t get a reply or any sort of means to keep the conversation going, I move on. That’s just… how talking goes. I can get very passionate in talking to folks, especially friends and things in line with my interests. It’s hard for me to notice if folks are uncomfortable in person, online it is impossible to tell. I need people to tell me directly if I am doing something uncomfortable and what it is, and if I can fix it.

My process for ocs is this: I see someone talking about their oc, they say something that reminds me of one of mine, then I share my oc. This is not to direct the conversation to me, but to share in it, it is in conjunction. I want to learn more of yours and I do that best by sharing mine. I cannot know if this isn't what you want if I am not told. And I wasn't.

I like to make jokes about characters, analyze them, critique them. I try to do this in a way that makes it clear this isn't an insult to those who like the character(s). But again, I need to be told directly by someone if I need to stop or tone it down. I would only be told sparingly by folks, and when I would, of course I'd stop, do my best to tone it down. But again, I was rarely told directly by people.

What is being described as my crimes are simply the experience of being autistic.

I cannot control it. I cannot stop it. I try to be as inclusive, warm and welcoming to all I come across. You do not HAVE to like me. But if you don't, just ignore me. You HAVE to learn to ignore people who you just… don't like. You have to learn to ignore pet peeves or to reasonably talk to the person. That's life.

So, when I received the above message, I was furious. I was at my dad’s apartment, cleaning out his stuff, and dealing with some harrowing emotions when I got this. I responded that getting this was extremely poor timing and yes, I was angry. But the one who sent this KNEW my dad died. They had seen me post about it, they acknowledged it, and still decided to message me. Who wouldn’t be angry?

Because of what I had been messaged, and the timing, I had decided to go to the owner of the server. I did not feel like it was appropriate for a mod, any mod, to message me about something that is a personal issue that folks should have messaged me themselves (and again, it is listed in the rules that things SHOULD be talked out privately between members before a mod gets involved), in a time that has been hell on earth for me.

I explained to the server owner what all happened with my feelings on the matter. I said that regardless, I would leave the server, because this was something that no one, absolutely no one, should experience. I requested for anything I contributed to the server to be removed, for I no longer felt comfortable for folks to use my art who could be the very same ones pettily using an anonymous survey to speak ill of me. So I sent my message, waited, and got a response.

I do not have anything against the server owner, but there are a few things that I must address with their response as well, because some are factually incorrect. There is full admittance to the complaints received through the anonymous survey, most recently at that. This goes counter to the rules stated that members should resolve private disputes amongst themselves first. (Again please note the screenshots of the rules.)

While perhaps not all of the mods knew of my dad’s passing, but enough DID that they should have known better. I posted briefly in the server in a slow thread so it could be better seen by people, including the mods. I had posted on tumblr as well. But the claim is no one saw it.

Again. This is just not true. Look to the above screenshots.

I do not have a screenshot of when I had sent the message initially in the server of my dad’s passing (I apologize for this), but the point being is that people knew. Another member messaged me in DMs to give their condolences. While I am and have been open about his passing, I also tried my best to not talk too much about it in the server as to bring down the mood, and I sought out the server and talked there as a source of comfort. Saying this was not clear to anyone, is false.

Now, I am sorry that I made people uncomfortable, it was never my intention to, and I will take fault in that. That isn’t what I mean to address in all this. The issue is; if people were uncomfortable, they needed to follow the rules and come to me DIRECTLY stating such, NOT give these complaints through an anonymous survey. And that I should NOT have been told during such an awful period. How can I take this at face value when I am not offered the same?

I wish to point out as well, why I kept bringing up the anonymous survey, and to bring back a note I made earlier.

There is a great deal of falsehood in using an anonymous survey to gather information, when this community has experienced a lot of hardship from anons. I have seen many people torn down and even chased out of this community and others because of people hiding behind anon. Creators, fans, and yes members, mods and even the server owner have all been victim to negativity from anons.

Now, I also must bring attention to this.

This is a screenshot I was sent of another mod posting, after I left. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT OKAY. This is why I feel the need to make this statement. Giving details like this is completely unnecessary, and with this said after I left is unacceptable.

I am sorry to be redundant, but I truly am sorry if I ever did make people uncomfortable. All I wanted to do was to make friends and share in the joy in creating art and characters with others. To share space in a community with something I truly found enjoyable. It’s why I’d get enthusiastic whenever OC’s were brought up and I’d share mine. I also wanted to share joy in the topic of the server, and yes some of that for me IS making jokes about characters or even giving critique.

I am not saying any of this to bad mouth or slander anyone. I say all of this to express my side of things. Someone who is grieving the loss of their dad, and so many others who came before him that are making me remember now because of his passing.

#I will be checking out the server for myself and seeing what I can find before I decide to make a more official response or not #I will also be removing this post soon as I like to keep this account void of posts #And I don't want to share this on my vn sideblog since it will draw attention. This should not be bigger than it already is

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thejustmaiden · 3 years ago

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So out of nowhere I was tagged and quoted by a SR shipper for a blog of mine posted in August of last year. Talk about throwback but, hey, gotta appreciate that level of snooping. 😉

Back in the day I actually used to encourage discourse amongst Inuyasha fans- both shippers and antis alike- but I've since realized that it's a lost cause. But for you, @feministmetalgreymon , I'll grant this exception. Just 'cause it's been a while so why the hell not. haha

I want to assure you, however, that nothing you say will ever convince me that Sesshomaru and Rin are meant to be together romantically or that the story intended it so. Nor will you find any validation here. You can ship them for all I care, but please for all that is good and holy while I have your attention try- I mean really try- to understand why it is so many of us Inuyasha fans are so against this pairing in the first place (newsflash: it's not about ship wars), and why we believe a romance between the two of them is completely and utterly out of character.

For those of you interested in reading this, the blog of mine in question that the above shipper mentions in their counter-argument is here for reference. It's titled "Jaken = Rin's Dad?" I'm going to try and keep this short, but I'm also making no such promises. After all, I'm not exactly known for my brevity. haha Now let's get crackin'!

Like you, feministmetalgreymon, did for your recent blog here where you took screenshots of mine to address certain parts, I will be doing the same and dissecting yours accordingly.

[Snippet 1]

I worked with kids for many years as a teacher, and many people in my family have too or still do. Two of them happen to be just over 5 feet which is quite short for the average adult woman living here. I've also worked alongside many a women of short stature, and never did I hear any of them complaining of issues with their students having difficulty differentiating them from their own peers just because they were short as well. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. Kids are quite smart and pick up on a lot more than you seem to give them credit for. Height is not the only characteristic they look at to determine who's an adult and who's not, and it's foolish to suggest otherwise. So unless you're a babysitter who's still in their teens and/or who has very childlike features or behavior then I'm afraid what you're getting at is total hogwash. This is just another example of how you shippers offer nothing of real substance to your reasoning, it's only ever cherry-picking or strawmanning from you guys. Stop deflecting from the real issues please, because this certainly isn't one and only winds up being a complete waste of time for all parties involved.

[Snippet 2]

Okay, calm down now. I wasn't insinuating that relationships between parents and children can't change over time in terms of how they get along. Of course that's possible, as all families experience their fair share of estrangement and abuse. What I was speaking about was in reference to the overall dynamic between the two. Because a bad mother or father can still be viewed as a parental figure to their child even if say they're not in said child's life anymore. Since Sesshomaru and Rin share a healthy bond- and just a friendly reminder that in my blog I even said that he doesn't have to necessarily be labeled her father but that a romantic relationship later would still be inappropriate- I didn't deem it necessary to address what you brought up. Plus, it kinda, umm, misses the point?? Please, let's stay on topic. And it's not captured in the screenshot, but stop acting like there isn't a small part of them that idolizes their parents at some point during childhood. Just like you mention later on how it's normal for kids to have innocent crushes on adults that they eventually grow out of? Well, guess what, the same concept applies here. Kids eventually learn that their parents are far from perfect and make mistakes too. Rin is so damn young in the OG series though that we never even get to see her reach that maturity level.

[Snippet 3]

LOL! Alright, okay, so the "unbreakable bond" bit you're mentioning was actually me quoting you sessrinners. Did you not catch that? I literally spelled it out. *sigh* The whole point I was making is that shippers like yourself make hypocritical and contradictory statements all.the.goddamn.time. One moment you guys claim that Sesshomaru and Rin were essentially strangers and meant very little to each other, only to say in the same breath a few seconds later that they were destined to be together and their bond is like no other. I agree, their bond is special, but why must that mean they're going to fall in love?

That is the root of the matter here. Too many animes/mangas have romanticized this older adult man & young girl growing up falling in love trope that it's become way too normalized and widely accepted across the world- and yes, in some cultures more than others. Sadly, you lack the awareness to recognize how this all works. You know how we know that? When we see that you shippers are so desensitized to sexualized images of girls in the media that you share posts like this one below which *subtly* imply a future romance although one half of that pairing is still just a child in the pic and then try and pass it off as cute. That's like super fucking problematic and it scares me that you can't see that (or deny you do). 🤢

After all that's said and done, Sesshomaru leaving Rin in the village with Kaede is to me the strongest indicator more than pretty much anything else he's done for Rin that proves he is her adoptive father. It's so funny to me how you somehow see the exact opposite though. 🤔 What I think is happening is that you got yourself on some squeaky clean ass shipper goggles fresh out of your little echo chamber. Because I hate to tell you, but what you're fantasizing is what you want to see and not what's actually there on screen or was written into the story. I'm strictly talking about Inuyasha and the manga of course. [For the TL; DR version skip to the last paragraph.]

Parents looking after their kids is what parents are supposed to do. A good parent will do anything to keep their child safe and ensure they are cared for, so what he did for her by leaving her there was in her best interests clearly. Besides, as a babysitter, you more than most people should understand that parents aren't always able to be there for their kids so sometimes others gotta step in to help. Haven't you heard of the saying, "it takes a village to raise a child?" Which in Rin's case is literally true! 😂 Sometimes kids are even sent off to stay with grandparents and that's who raises them instead. Or maybe they have to temporarily live with an aunt or uncle because their single parent's job requires they work out of town 4-5 days of the week so they're hardly home. But that doesn't mean that the parents care or love their kids any less, and it's foolish to assume that Sesshomaru must have thought very little of Rin simply due to the fact that he made the decision to leave her in the village. Come on, y'all are acting like he abandoned her there!!

It's just given the circumstances Sesshomaru finally came to learn that Rin traveling with him was no longer safe. I also like to think it's because he wished for her to live a more normal life and to learn how to fully trust humans again. Plus, continuing to travel with him as young as she was would have proven dangerous and unwise. Now for you to know all this and still manage to turn his past actions towards her while she was just a child into a romantic gesture is what boggles my mind. Regardless of how you look at it, from my perspective or your own, Sesshomaru is in the wrong. Either he's a father figure who impregnates his daughter at the young age of approximately 14. OR he's this man she used to travel with who maybe isn't a father to her but who nonetheless basically rapes her since kids her age can't consent to sex with an adult. Idk about you but it sounds to me like nobody here wins with either scenario we're given. In other words, you should be just as mad as we are. If only one side didn't choose to forsake their morals they know we both have in common for the sake of a ship. Welp. 🤷‍♀️

I agree, incest is disgusting but that's not the only problem we have with this pairing. A romantic bond forming between Sesshomaru and Rin would also constitute as grooming.

You realize that over the years he visited her in the village that he brought her gifts too and essentially watched her grow up right before his very eyes, right? I mean, I know you do, but I really shouldn't have to explain further why pursuing a romantic/sexual relationship with each other is plain and simple wrong. And before you say it's not because he didn't have any malintent, please understand that considering their history and power dynamic up to then that yes this is still considered grooming even if Rin supposedly "wanted it" or "made the first move." Whether you consider him her father or not, as the adult who took on a role resembling that of a caretaker in her early life- a critical developmental time for a child- Sesshomaru is obligated to turn down any advances by Rin and most definitely should not initiate any himself. As the first close adult figure she's had in her life since her parents died, it's unfathomable to imagine how Sesshomaru could go through with taking advantage of this young girl who was under his care and supervision since they met. To think he could be capable of betraying that trust sickens me to the core.

This. Now THIS is how a parent/guardian or a similar adult caretaker (babysitter, teacher, etc.) talks to a child. And, in turn, this is how some young children talk to adults. You'd be insane and delusional to deny it! We see it in our everyday lives, do we not? From where else do you think our stories draw most of their inspiration? Yes, obviously these fictional universes have aspects of fantasy that don't exist in the real world, but so how then do you suppose we're able to relate to them? The reason for that being is because these stories are written by people for people, so naturally there are going to be real life aspects embedded throughout. Sure, a little escapism doesn't hurt as we don't need to take everything so seriously, but ultimately we all need to recognize that the messages in the stories we tell matter. Most stories possess a combination of both light and dark themes, but when it specifically comes to the latter we gotta be careful with how we tackle this in children's media since kids are far more impressionable.

So if at the center of a story we have two of the main protagonists whose mom is basically their same age and to top it off she knew their dad when she was just a girl and who just so happened to help raise her, wouldn't you say that's beyond fucked up or at the very least so fucking weird? Like why would we think it's even remotely okay for our children to watch this garbage?? Really think about it. Try and be objective for once and think about how it would sound explaining this storyline to an outsider who's never watched IY or HNY. Well, antis have tried this before many times and we always get the same reaction: Ewww!

Like I said earlier, if you wanna ship it then fine, but 1) please stop seeking our approval or trying to change our minds - your ship wish came true didn't it, so why do you need us to validate it? 2) even though it's not canon, respect that we don't support this sequel portraying pedophilia in a positive light. It's harmful af to not only allow but glorify the continuation of sexualized images of young girls everywhere. And I shouldn't have to say this, but just because this trope is popular as you say does not make it right. Lolicon themes in the media have been an issue forever and it needs to stop. Yes, even some people in Japan or "the East" would agree. Shocker!

We're pissed off and rightfully so because Yashahime's TV rating is 14, not to mention it airs at the prime time kids in Japan watch TV after getting home from school. That's Towa and Setsuna's age, true, but if Rin being the mom when she's like only a year older than them (please don't argue w/ me about the math- antis have so far been right every time with it) is straight-up disgusting and not something we should be supporting or endorsing. Rin's a whole ass child!! Please don't start with the "but times were different then so her having kids at 15 is acceptable" argument either, because we've already debunked that and every other single excuse you guys throw at us. Besides, how or why would you expect young viewers to know these historical "facts" anyway, especially if as you suggest fiction doesn't affect reality so what does it matter? Yet here we are, arguing over a fictional show in real life almost a year and a half into the "Sesshomaru fucks?" sequel being announced. My ass, your ass, hell all our asses fiction doesn't affect reality!

Look, I do apologize if the tone of this blog came off as snippy or condescending at times. I do not wish you any ill will, it's just I'm not really sure what you expected to get out of all this besides maybe getting on my nerves perhaps. haha A lot of you shippers have been desperately scrambling to interact with us, lurking in our tags, jumping onto our posts screaming canon and getting so defensive even though you sought us out first. We've been sticking to our tags, so how about you stay in your lane too. By the way since we're on the topic, have you seen Twitter or Reddit?! SR shippers there are the actual worst and many Inuyasha fans (not just antis) have complained of not feeling welcomed to engage in fandom spaces anymore. Shippers swarm them and scare them off simply because fans don't like your ship and refuse to accept it. It's pathetic, really. No one should ever be bullied or harassed just because they don't like something you might. We're all fans of Inuyasha, aren't we? So let's act like it. Yashahime on the other hand, you guys are welcome to that pungent heap of trash. Fans have a right to criticize it too, but if you like it then good for you, so keep on liking it and don't mind us.

I'm almost done, but real quick back to Jaken! Let's not forget about how the official Yashahime website- which came out after my blog, mind you- described Jaken. This translation isn't the best one available but it's the only version a fellow anti friend could track down. They do recall a better one done by a native Japanese speaker who was also an anti, and that member confirmed that Jaken is indeed called Rin's babysitter. So you see, I was right in my interpretation. In the original post I did compare Jaken to a brother, but after talking to others (some comments can be found under said post) I did acknowledge that he's more of a reluctant babysitter who's not related. And if he's not at least a brother to Rin, then he's definitely not her father.

At the end of the day, the creator Rumiko Takahashi has the final word. Which is guess what? Hogosha. 💖 Probably should've just started out with that and saved us all the trouble, huh? Good day/night to you.

Papamaru bids you adieu now. 🤞

#anti yashahime #anti sessrin #sesshomaru is rin's dad #papamaru #hogosha 💖#the sequel may not be canon but sunrise can still burn in hell

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eeveecraft · 3 years ago

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Waifumancy: What it is and Why it's Messed Up

Content warning for: rape talk, sexism, abuse, and general nastiness.

I have been meaning to make a post like this for a long while, but the brain felt like hyperfocusing on other things. Well, no longer. This has been an issue in the Tulpamancy community for a while, and I think it's about time we start calling it to attention and shutting this disgusting behavior out before it's too late.

Starting off: What the hell is "Waifumancy"? From what I have learned over the course of a few years, Waifumancy is the practice of creating your ideal "waifu," or basically a tulpa that embodies this idea. Typically some stereotypical hot anime chick or a pony from what I've personally seen. These "waifu tulpas" are everything their host (typically a cishet man) wants them to be, forcing them into this box and keeping them two-dimensional instead of full-blown people.

Waifu tulpas are usually made with romantic or sexual purposes in mind instead of less... incel-like reasons. This ideology seems to have been spawned from an absolutely reprehensible user in the Tulpamancy community known as Kopase who makes Tulpamancy video guides. He once posted a video guide on why you should make a waifu tulpa:

For a quick background on him, he was banned from the r/Tulpas subreddit due to his absolutely vitriolic behavior towards the mentally ill, specifically DID/OSDD systems. He has a history of being incredibly, racist, transphobic, and info has even revealed that he has raped his tulpas multiple times and even convinced a 15 year-old to make a "lewd tulpa" by sending that minor NSFW images. If anyone wants screenshots, I have a folder dedicated on why he's a scumbag.

So, this is the person who likely spawned the idea behind Waifumancy, and Waifumancy is known for denying your tulpa's personhood in favor of them being an ideal waifu and obedient pet. It promotes highly abusive behavior for the tulpa and encourages what we call "toxic host-centrism" where the host is treated like a god in the system.

Another popular example of Waifumancy rearing its ugly head is a guide literally called "How to Craft your Waifu" by another problematic community member known as Verple where there is a section called "The Art of Mindfuck" that literally takes up over a fourth of the 10,000+ word guide. I seriously wish I was joking. It specifically goes over how to have sex with your tulpa in a male host and female tulpa perspective where Verple states that all tulpas are female whether they like it or not.

Don't believe me? Another user in the community did a video reading for Verple's guide for each section as individual videos and you can clearly see the time difference in the usual parts compared to part 12, known as "Fucking the Tulpa." Yes, this is a thing and just look at that thumbnail:

And that's just a newer version of the guide that included new things that lessened the fraction of space part 12 took up. Still absolutely disgusting, though. Do NOT recommend.

This is the kind of behavior Waifumancy promotes and goes against pretty much everything the sensible part of the community stands for, i.e. treating tulpas as people, not 2D sex dolls with some semblance of sentience. We need to call this out when we see it and let others know that this disgusting behavior is not tolerated in this community. Don't let bigoted and vitriolic people like Verple or Kopase get a foothold in the community more than they already have.

I've been wanting to make this because this has been in the community for at least a few years now and many tulpas have been hurt by it. Just wanted to bring as much awareness as I can by using this blog as a platform to spread the info.

Hope I've been able to inform some people and if any of you doubt what I've said, I can send evidence in DMs that's just... not appropriate for a public post, especially concerning bigots like Kopase.

If you find these posts informative and well-written where you'd like to support the creation of them, you can buy us a Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/eeveecraft

7-26-2021

#community talk #tulpamancy #endogenic #plurality #pluralgang #PSA #tulpa #actuallyplural #rape talk tw #sexism tw #informative post

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lizzybeth1986 · 6 years ago

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Quick Thoughts on TRR Book 3 Chapter 20

• Note: Screenshots for Hana are from @kennaxval , HIMEME YouTube Channel for Drake and Vika Avey YouTube Channel for Maxwell. Alright. Looks like this book will take another two chapters, fam!

• I feel like one will be for the final showdown between Liam and Anton, and the eventual aftermath, and the last one will be an epilogue of sorts, where the MC either has her coronation or is honoured in a special ceremony for her bravery. But I could be wrong, so don't take me altogether on my word.

• Wanna know how to be friendzoned by your spouse at your own wedding reception? Be Hana.

• I'm serious. Even if she's fucking married to you she's still expected to play the part of Professional Best Friend™. She acts more the bridesmaid than the actual bride.

• Title: A Warm Reception. Well that reception is about to get scalding hot by the end of this chapter!

• The chapter begins with a lovely sweet scene with your husband/wife (it's so nice to finally say it!!) and what they're looking forward to at the reception. In the options you get to hint at the main course you picked (if you paid the diamonds) or the cake (if you paid the diamonds) + the toast (for which you will now pay diamonds).

• We meet Ana de Luca at the boutique and she shows us a dress that...still looks like it would be more suitable for a wedding instead.

Okay maybe a little risque for a wedding...but still. I guess I'm more used to the bride changing into a different colour for the reception (for us Malayali Christians, we usually change into saris of whatever colour - but mostly red - after the wedding and the mass is over).

Well of course I'm choosing this. The other option is the dreaded LBD (alright not that dreaded. It's a lot better than Bluebelle, after all).

• Madeleine is extra snippy and snarky compared to her usual, and is determined to change her job description from Press Sec to Professional ClamJammer/Cockblocker™.

• Look, you lucky sods who did the fling option. My MC has had no sex since Valtoria and SHE. IS. THIRSTY.

• So we enter the hall, congratulated and complimented like any regular wedded couple, our friends surrounding us with joy and promises of a good time. Court members like Kiara and Penelope confess to crying over your vows (I'm guessing this crops up only if you chose the vow diamond option in Chapter 18).

• Boy they really are laying it in thick with Liam's heartbreak if he's not marrying you aren't they. Like they HAVE to drill it in you that THIS MAN STILL LOVES YOU AND IS IN PAIIIIIN before this entire betrayal fiasco occurs. They're like a few lines short of literally writing it on the poor man's forehead.

• In each playthrough, once you're done getting felicitations from everyone, you then get to meet the rest of the groom/bride's families.

In Liam's playthrough Regina and Leo tell Liam how proud they are of him, and Leo is impressed at his wedding taking place in Bossina Cathedral (hinting at the fact that if you married him in RoE, he was one of the few royals who did not get married there). In Drake's playthrough, the MC meets Bianca, and we find out more about both her and Jackson (Jackson wasn't a big fan of big events with lots of people, and Bianca can't wrap her head around the gazillion spoons and their purpose on the dinner table. Don't let your future son-in-law Bertrand catch you saying that, Bianca!). In Hana's playthrough, Xinghai and Lorelai sound nostalgic, and Lorelai tells Hana that she wishes Hana had let her braid her hair. Hana tenses up at the comment, but given the speech Lorelai gives later on, it seems more like a sentimental moment she wanted to share with Hana before the wedding. In Maxwell's playthrough, the family members are Bertrand, Savannah and Bartie, and Savannah uses her time with the newlyweds to...make pointed remarks about "how hard it is to take the leap" and give Bertrand shade for taking their relationship further yet. Um. Okay Savannah.

• We then move on to the main course. Now if you didn't buy the group scene at the festival in Castelserraillian, you do have a main course - they just don't specify what it is. If you do, however, the main course you chose will unlock a scene with the LI that recommended it. The chicken tagine unlocks some playful dialogue between Liam and Leo about how much Liam disliked this dish and how much his tastes have changed since then. The ash-e reshteh unlocks a cute scene between Hana and her parents about their experience in Iran during the Persian New Year, including a sweet story about how Lorelei had lost her bag and ended up walking around in a t-shirt instead. The feijoada stew doesn't give us any extra stories, but it does unlock a funny scene where Bertrand looks suspiciously at the stew ("It smells like...Drake". Bertrand Bertrand Bertrand. If only you knew how much grovelling you'd have to do in front of Drake later), Drake encourages him to try it, and Bertrand is bowled over by the taste. I guess that's to be expected, considering Drake only specified that he liked the taste of the stew rather than assign any personal connection to it. Overall...nice touch having the food item connected to the LI that suggested it to you, and it makes me a little sadder about the fact that they didn't assign one to Maxwell at all.

• The LI you married gives their speech for free, each in their own unique style, each giving us an insight into their individual stories:

In their individual ways, each LI stresses on how their love story wasn't expected to work out, but did despite all the odds. Both Maxwell and Drake are self-deprecating: one speaks of how he - even now - cannot imagine that this beautiful feisty woman would choose a 'cynical bastard' like him, while the other highlights how fairytale-like her journey was expected to be and how he was the court jester who shouldn't have been getting the girl, but did. (Lol I also noticed that the married Drake now calls his spouse "Walker" 😄 Edit: Looks like this is by option. @i-dream-so-i-write tells me that in the carriage scene post the wedding, you get to choose what he should call you, which I missed. Nice touch!). Hana speaks of how her feelings towards the MC gradually developed over time, becoming stronger and more difficult to ignore even though she knew they were both supposed to be here on the same purpose (ie. vying for Liam's hand). Liam's highlights his constant fears that their relationship would be brought to an abrupt end several times, but above all, he speaks of her as Cordonia's Queen, reminds his subjects that she has proved her worth as a leader time and again. This is important, because it's a reminder that Liam will always belong to two: to his country, and to the woman who marries him.

• You then get a diamond option to hear the toasts of all your friends (the remaining LIs + Olivia) + a family member of that particular LI. In each playthrough, there are discrepancies: ones that seemed odd and confusing to me at first but that clearly show a pattern. Each LI will have just one fellow LI who will speak about them as well, rather than just the MC, and a family member who will reflect on that person's growth. Out of all of them, Olivia addresses only one directly with substantial attention to the LI: and that is Liam (she has a line directed to Drake that is doubtless funny but actually doesn't add anything and could have been done without really). Each one ends with a final toast from Bertrand. So here's what the breakdown of the toasts in each playthrough:

Liam: Toasts given by Drake, Olivia, Maxwell, Hana and Bertrand. Family member: Leo.

Leo's speech is primarily about bringing us back to the roots of the TRR story (his abdication and the aftermath of it all is how this story begins, after all), and reminding us of how it all began. He acknowledges the toll his decision must have taken on Liam, but also makes it clear that the MC has helped Liam find the balance between his duties and his needs that he so clearly needed.

The LI who focuses on Liam is Drake. This is but natural, given their deep bond and personal history. He speaks of Liam's "heart of gold" that matches the literal gold he's got around, and considers him his brother.

Maxwell and Hana focus on the MC, and only cursorily mention Liam (Maxwell does cute finger guns though lol).

Olivia's toast is special to the MC because it's where she makes clear her respect for her, and confesses that though she hated her in the beginning it turned into respect. Liam is perhaps the only LI Olivia properly acknowledges:

In the rest of the playthroughs, Olivia may end up being Liam's eventual Queen, but in this one - she is affirming that whether he belongs to her or not, he remains her inspiration and she will always care for him. Kinda like a fitting goodbye to that dream I guess? Comparatively, she ignores the other LIs, except for Drake whom she baits and then declines to make a toast for.

Bertrand speaks of his personal journey with the MC, but does not make more than a cursory mention of Liam and the fact that the MC is now Queen.

Drake: Toasts given by Liam, Hana, Maxwell, Olivia and Bertrand. Family member: Savannah.

Savannah's toast is more centered around the MC than it is Drake, and possibly gives the MC more credit than is wise. Like yes, if the MC chooses she can convince Drake to actually reach out and talk to his sister, but she wasn't the one who - in Savannah's words - "found" Savannah. That was all on Drake. Drake was the one who found the address. He was the one who took initiative to check it out and see who stayed there. All the MC does is maybe give him the required push to stay, and even that is optional. In any case...when Savannah does talk about Drake it is to reaffirm his deep denial that there was anything between them up until he was able to get engaged to the MC.

The LI who focuses on Drake is Liam. He speaks of their long-standing friendship, how Drake deserves happiness, and hints at how much he has sacrificed for Cordonia without taking anything in return.

Again, Maxwell and Hana do not mention Drake except in passing, and their toasts are mostly dedicated to their friendship with the MC.

Olivia's toast is basically added here just because Olivia-roasting-Drake is popular, and I think it falls a little flat really.

Bertrand, being Drake's future brother-in-law, speaks briefly of his affection for the Walker family and therefore affirms his respect for Drake based on what he has heard of him from Savannah.

Hana: Toasts by Maxwell, Liam, Drake, Olivia and Bertrand. Family member: Lorelai.

Lorelai's toast ties in with what she tells Hana at the beginning of the reception. She brings up the way she used to braid Hana's hair as a reference point to her childhood, speaking at length of how close they were even if the relationship was a strained one. She speaks of how afraid she was of losing Hana, and how she is now coming to terms with the fact that by setting her free she is actually becoming closer to Hana than she ever imagined. Which is nice...but as with most things Hana related...it's a whitewashed pretty picture that really doesn't delve properly into this relationship as it has been depicted before.

The LI that focuses on Hana is Maxwell. It's clear that there is a tiny element of hero-worship there ("when I grow up I want to be like Hana Lee"). He acknowledges her particular manner of caring for people, her amazing dance skills and her kindness. It's quite sweet, even though frustrating because I've seen more of the LIs laud Hana's perfections in lieu of proper characterization. But that aside. It's sweet.

In this case, it is Liam and Drake who do not focus on Hana, instead stopping at their toast to the MC. Olivia does not directly address Hana either.

Bertrand, as with Liam's playthrough, doesn't have much to say about Hana the way he does about Drake and (understandably) Maxwell.

Maxwell: Maxwell's has only four options - the remaining LIs and Olivia. This is because Bertrand, Maxwell's brother and only surviving family, is also the MC's sponsor and speaks in that capacity as well. In the case of Maxwell's playthrough, he represents both the bride and the groom.

Bertrand's toast here is pretty much an extension of his toast in the other playthroughs, with him exploring his history with his brother. He recognizes Maxwell's gifts, acknowledges the childlike quality that is a part of him, confesses there is so much about Maxwell that he doesn't and may never really understand, and apologizes for making him feel like he deserves less than to know his brother is proud of him. It reflects on the journey the Beaumont brothers have taken, and how he finally realizes Maxwell's worth.

The LI that focuses on Maxwell is Hana. Like Maxwell she speaks of his excellent dancing skills, but then again she also speaks of his zest for life, his sense of humour, his playful spirit.

Liam and Drake focus on the MC instead of Maxwell, which feels a bit odd since they've known him for long enough as well, but I can appreciate that Liam and Drake are closer to each other than to anyone else in the group, and so are Hana and Maxwell.

Again, Olivia does not say anything about Maxwell either.

It looks like they decided to center the toasts around the MC for the most part, with a few insights on the LI from those closest to them. They spread that out by including a family member and an LI close to to them, and additionally in Liam's case, Olivia.

• Seeing Hakim try to say "WOO" and then ask if he's doing it right if you ask everyone to say make some noise, has to be the cutest thing about this chapter xD

•

Yes Esther. He picked the song. From the HSS soundtrack.

• Each LI then speaks about/alludes to their previous dances with you. Liam recalls the first dance at the Masquerade, Hana alludes to the many dances they have done over the course of the story (mostly because dancing with her is optional), Drake speaks about wanting to get things right especially on their special day and Maxwell speaks about having the right mood and music depending on the situation. Quite sweet.

• Once the wedding dance is done, the LIs dance in a group together. Liam twirls Hana, Hana performs ballet, Maxwell challenges Drake to do spin kicks, Drake does some killer spin kicks, crediting self-defense with teaching him those moves. Penelope (and Kiara, very cautiously once she realizes Maxwell is volunteering to coach because she clearly wants all her bones intact by the end of the night) is so impressed she asks to be coached. Maxwell does the coaching.

• Olivia is not here, and Maxwell assumes she's gone to check out the hors d'ouvres. Hmm. Hmm.

• Cake cutting time! Now technically, if you didn't buy this option, it still happens - you just don't get to see what they're cutting. Choosing your cake allows you to see it and (more importantly in my opinion) gives you some lovely food descriptions. You also get gag options for cake cutting and for either feeding the cake to your spouse or smearing it all over their faces.

• If you're getting married to Liam and bought the gastrodiplomacy scene in Castelserraillian, you get an extra chocolate souffle. I wasn't sure they would remember this one post hiatus, but looks like they did. Now if only they'd remember Hana was an actual character deserving of a good arc with that much accuracy...

• If you bought the cake scene, you also get to surprise your spouse with an extra dessert. Liam is willing to share his baklava with you after being outed by his brother as being a Joey (I DON'T SHARE FOOD), Hana loves the hot chocolate and wants to refine her recipe based on it, Maxwell calls it the "second best cake" he's had (the first being their wedding cake). Drake's is the s'mores, but the playthrough I saw shows him enjoying the Cordonian Ruby pie (which honestly looks more like its been filled with berries than apples) and speaking of how nice it is to have one down-to-earth dessert. I'm guessing he must have either a similar reaction to the s'mores, or there's some reminiscing of the time he prepared it for her back in Book 2.

• The scene now shifts to BertVannah, who are having an argument. Savannah looks pissed off about Bertrand not calling and informing her about the attack in the boutique (gee, I wonder how that conversation would've gone. "Hey honey. At the brink of death here. Toodles!"). But her real ire is because she wants to take things to the next level but is getting mixed signals from Bertrand. She tells him she will probably be joining her mother in Texas instead. The timing of all this is supposed to be terrible, because Bertrand was planning to propose. With that ruby ring from LoveHacks.

• What ensues is a diamond scene to help Bertrand give Savannah her fairytale proposal, one last exercise in teaching Bertrand words and this couple to hold hands. Whether you choose it or not, Bertrand proposes, Savannah says yes and we find out her middle name is Jane.

• The diamond scene itself is quite sweet. It begins with Bertrand buttering up to Drake to get his approval, the highlight of which is him imitating a chicken to prove to Drake that he would do anything for Savannah. It then moves ahead to the Cordonian barbershop quartet (Liam, Drake, Maxwell, Bertrand) agreeing to get together after their last appearance in Book 2 to help him with the proposal, which will be sung to Savannah during the bridal bouquet toss.

• Somehow, no matter what, the TRR writing team have to remind us that they don't consider Hana a bride at her own wedding:

They somehow forget that Hana is a bride in this part of the Hana playthrough, have her round up the bridesmaids when that should be done by someone else (Madeleine or Kiara or literally any other woman), and make her stand in her fucking wedding gown in the line with the other bridesmaids. It's bad enough that she remains the "professional best friend" even after you're engaged, has to wear black at her own bachelorette and a glitch in the game during the ceremony directly affects her fans more than anyone else. Like if I were Hana I would circle the photo album of this day and mark it WORST WEDDING EVER. Yes. In red 😠

The MC is really out there treating her bride like a wedding planner on their wedding day. So much for making this wedding Hana's dream wedding, MC. Such love much wow.

• Proposal done, it's now time to give the LIs their gifts. Very nice, very emotional, they all love what you got them and they're all adorable.

You get the usual with the remaining LIs, and some extra kissing with your spouses. Overall, quite nice.

That's a lie Hana and you know it.

• So Olivia is completely MIA post the toast, Gladys is walking around looking poker faced, Bastien is taking Mara's place while (I'm guessing) she recovers...and Madeleine is still being a colossal cockblocker/clam jam.

• You get a few last minute conversations with Kiara and Penelope, including a default acknowledgement of how much Kiara sacrificed to be here and how tough it was for her (nice try, PB, but I'm not forgiving you for Lythikos).

•

We get a lovely call-back to the first chapter of Book 1, by having Not Henney be part of our wedding.

• Regina then comes up to talk to you, admitting that she was wrong in thinking that the MC would be "dangerous for Cordonia", and is now happy you're here.

• Gladys then comes and asks us to accompany her because someone is "impatient" to be with us.

• Uh huh, uh huh, I thought. Time for a diamond sex scene?

• But nope. It's free. (Waiiiiitaminute. Something is not quite right about this. We can't be boinking with our fiancé/es for free. What's going on!)

• ...oh. OH.

• Shame on you Gladys!

• When I asked you to call me Lamb Shawarma I didn't mean for you to turn me into one!

General Thoughts:

• If you're marrying Hana, Drake or Maxwell, they are lured into the maze first, and used as bait to catch hold of the MC. If you're marrying Liam, however, you're the bait.

• Prior to this, Olivia is missing as well, possibly for Anton to establish his "rightful" claim over his wife (good luck with that, buddy. I'd love for this to end with one of her knives on your throat) in the next chapter.

• Which is probably why Liam having feelings for the MC keeps coming up so much in the final few chapters. It propells him into anger either way, and seeing Olivia in a danger as well allows Liam to finally wake up to his possible feelings for her in the other playthroughs (I hope?)

• I think there will be a duel. I think it will be a parallel to the Costume Gala duel between Drake and Neville, except here the stakes are much much higher. Which is why Neville is shown in the chapter, after a long time of not being shown at all even though it's clear he's still part of the tour. He's probably there as a way to foreshadow what is to come. Also, it works as a bit of an inverse.

In the Costume Gala duel, Drake was clearly the underdog, and Neville clearly the noble who needed to be taught a lesson. Drake has spoken about agreeing to the duel to prove that as a commoner he has his worth and dignity, and it doesn't need to be trampled on.

In this duel, Anton appears to be the underdog fighting valiantly against the king of a "tyrannical" dynasty, and this is a rhetoric that at least some people take seriously, as we saw in the riot in Chapter 17, and in a little of what Gladys says before the betrayal.

But here...the tables are turned. Anton is the power-hungry candidate for the throne who is willing to destroy the livelihood of Cordonia's farmers and throw the economy of the country into shambles (ironically, since his father was part of the Sons of Earth), to get access to the throne. Liam has been established over and over as someone who genuinely cares for his people and wants them to prosper with him, not have himself prosper at their expense. So in this case, the non-noble here is established as the one who would be absolutely wrong for the country, and Liam as the monarch Cordonia needs and deserves.

• I wonder how much of this chapter will the actual duel take. I'm guessing half of it, with the LI, Liam, Olivia and the MC then going through the aftermath, and then eventually moving into the Coronation/honouring ceremony of the finale in another chapter.

• There will (hopefully) be some focus on Liam's emotional state? That man has been through way too much shit minus any space to actually talk about what he's been through. It's high time he gets his space to really open up about his trauma and actually get to heal, because this book has been keeping his state of mind in limbo for way longer than it should. It's been poorly worked on and poorly built, his overall crisis arc, but I'm hoping this coming chapter will make up for that.

• I deserve TWO sex scenes for the kind of crap I have to put up with at my own fucking wedding. An attack the day before! An attack before I dress! An attack at my reception! What BRIDE goes through this shit!

I'd better get great lingerie and explosive sex for the kind of stress getting married in Cordonia takes out of me.

• So technically Gladys is supposed to be our surprise element this chapter, and I guess it makes sense, since she is a recently introduced character and you can push her forward as shady without making it very obvious because she only enters the story when the book is close to being done.

• One thing I did find interesting is that if you choose to thank her while she leads you to the hedge maze, she looks sad and speaks of how "the nobles are usually too busy thinking of themselves on a night like tonight", leading the MC to feel sorry she's had such a bad experience. Which kinda gives us a hint why she might be in cahoots with Anton in the first place. Anton is not a nobleman (though he is married into a noble family), and seems to be preying on commoner emotions to get support for overthrowing Liam's government. I'm sorry Gladys, but I think you've been fooled.

• That's it for this chapter, guys. On to Chapter 21!

#the royal romance #long post #liam x mc #king liam #drake x mc #drake walker #hana x mc #hana lee #maxwell x mc #maxwell beaumont #olivia nevrakis #bertrand beaumont #savannah walker #trr quick thoughts #quick thoughts

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