#i think this is just a case of the panopticon

[iamonlyhereforthefreefood]

It's honestly so dystopian to see people talk about something horrific while using advertiser friendly censored terms like "grape" and "smeggs"

[pinkfey]

i struggle

[artyphex]

Lmao my TikTok was too long to upload here so I’m just gonna retype it all out

Chester and Norris: Are they really Jon and Martin?

Wrong question imo! The BETTER question is: How MUCH of Jon and Martin are Chester and Norris?

The fact is these programs have SOME link to Jon and Martin, Jonny and Alex would not be voicing them otherwise, so what it comes down to is how much of a link?

Because it could be that it’s ONLY their voices. Annabelle explained to Jon that the tapes belonged to the Web, and that by “taking his voice” Jon was therefore bound to the Web and the other fears by extension. It’s entirely possible that when the Fears left Archives’ universe, they brought Jon (and Martin as he was also on the tapes) voices over with them, but JUST the voices. Nothing else. It’s just a coat of paint over the entities methods of collection, Chester and Norris aren’t Jon and Martin anymore than glasses are the person wearing them

But I’m not sure that’s the case. There’s a lot of holes there. The main one being: why? If it is just hollow voices, then why? What’s the purpose of the fears using them? It’s only been two episodes, so it might be answered later, but let’s talk about the second possibility

Chester and Norris ARE Jon and Martin, they just aren’t aware. When Martin “cut the tether” in episode 200, he didn’t cut the Fears away from Jon, he cut the Fears away from the world and at that point, as the Pupil of the Eye, Jon was part of the fears. Since Martin was in the panopticon when they went, he went too.

And now we have a disembodied Jon and Martin existing in a dazed but still hungry state. They seek out whatever’s familiar and since there’s no Magnus Institute, they go to the OIAR, get into their system, and read out any “real” statements they can find. Feeding off of them.

In this possibility, Jon and Martin are effectively asleep. They aren’t aware of what they’re doing really, just going by their new instincts/nature. But I think the more they feed, the more conscious they’ll become, and we’ll start to Chester and Norris break script. Stutter over a word. Add words. Things that a text to speech program simply CAN’T do even if glitched to shit

What complicates this possibility is the fact that Alice said they only showed up a year ago when it’s implied the OIAR has existed much longer than that as well as the fears in this world. It could be they move from place to place feeding off what they can, and when that’s bled dry, they move somewhere else? If they’re as intertwined with the fears as this theory implies, they could exist across infinite universes, staying alive like this

I’m not sure! It’s super interesting tho. I think the saddest ending would be if it’s never really answered, and Jon becomes, at least in some ways, a mystery

[sleepybugeyes]

I read through all of Elias/Jonah's dialogue (as you do) plus some relistening and mentions of him, so here's a big list of some fun things and behaviors I noted!

I thought he made a lot of eye puns/jokes, but he only does it once in mag161, however he does enjoy making jokes. "Creativity never was their forte." from mag80, "You want my account? My sworn testimony? My statement?" from 82, "If you die, I’m afraid you probably won’t be able to claim your expenses." in 116 and "I only have two eyes, after all." in 120. no one ever laughs at his jokes only he finds them amusing

His last words telling Jon a sarcastic or mocking "good luck" are mirrored earlier as he also tells Basira good luck the last time he sees her, and Martin, as he's getting arrested

He loves gloating. "I forget how new you all are to this." from mag92, "Coffee is not as good for disguising tastes as you might think." in 98, "She’s hoping that even if I see it coming she’ll still be able to overpower me. She’s wrong, of course," in 102, "A masterpiece, isn’t it?" abt his panopticon in 158 and of course his whole monologue in 160

He does his budgeting on tuesdays and his scheduling on wednesdays

He also likes getting lost in work

in mag40 he makes up proper incompetency (said he didnt know how the fire system works, while he later admits he was actively waiting) just that once, but more so he acts like he doesnt get the full picture (doesnt know whats in the tunnels, whats strange about the institute) or acts too late and apologises (not stepping into jon's stalking behaviour). Which makes me think he is quite fine letting people think less of him but unless he has something to hide hes not actively looking to give the impression

in mag92 elias slides the papers for basira across his desk, but you don't hear him take them out before, meaning he prepared and got ready for this before he called the police

in general he's a very preparing man, Lukas steps in when Elias is arrested so has has control over who'd run it. in mag118 he says he prepared something to hurt martin (my speculation is that he likely has some trauma that could hurt you prepared for any person that could cross him, just in case he needs it). When he gets arrested he has something prepared so he doesnt get killed and ofc s1-4 is preparing Jon for his grand ritual

Elias admits the idea for his ritual kinda fell into place after Getrude didnt do anything about the people's church in march 2015. He shot Getrude and appointed Jon shortly after so "when you came to me already marked by the Web, I knew it had to be you." is pure dramatics as Jon was hired 4 years prior

also he got his ritual in 2018 so he managed to acomplish his life's goal in only 3 years, love his grindset 🔥

We never get a number for how many people Elias has killed in his ritual, the real life millbank has held over 1000 people at once, but id imagine his one panopticon held less than a whole complex

its really interesting to me in mag92 that hes SO sure they all know he's talking to them of his own free will. is he just that dead set on being in control or making sure they take no credit for his confession

there is a clock in Elias' office (but it's only heard in mag98)

He has killed people but Elias is very much not a blood thirsty person. Getrude and Peter are both surprised when he results to that. He's very much just ruthless and does not care, if to get his way he has to kill someone. It doesnt seem like he's ever happy to do so, maybe this is a quirk of being eye aligned and getting rid of any type of knowledge is painful (he does for example never want Tim to die at the Unknowing), or he just finds covering those murders up a hassle

for the Unknowing Elias books them all hotel rooms, how thoughtful

something cute to me that Jon was too good at the Eye that Elias couldnt meet him face to face post coma

In mag158 he implies that even Institute employees not in the archives are tied to it, at least enough that they could suffer or die if it burned down

between finding other people just as tools to watch and discard and saying empathy holds you back he was definitely a very very lonely man

He is a very breathy person. He sounds breathy when he talks. He takes deep breaths to ready himself and before he uses his powers. And he often breathes through his nose before speaking or during pauses

He has said Jon's name 62 times, only twice calling him "Jonathan" and called him archivist 25 times (24 in the mag120 statement, 1 in mag138 and 1 in mag161)(he also kinda calls him The Archive in 160)

other fun amount of words: know (65 times), see (42), martin (35), detective (20), eyes (20) and eye (9), afraid (9) and "bullshit" (1)

its still insane to me they added all of those sound effects of Elias' cuffs in prison, thats something fun to appreciate. It also means its canon he gestures quite a bit!

[bassband]

I want the foucault essay please.

Well... since you asked...

The thing is, the move from the London apartment(s) to the phouse represents not only a symbolic shift in the visual language of their videos but a material change in both Dan and Phil's lives and in their relationship with their audience. Furthermore, we can use it to understand some of the murkier aspects of phandom history if we care to delve into an investigation of sexuality, conformity, and desire.

The London apartment is a place well and truly of its time, from the geek chic decor to the midtwentysomething string lights in Dan's bedroom. It was a serious undertaking for two twenty-somethings who had just gotten a radio job, and were committing to live in a very expensive location on an entertainer's income. They have spoken about the difficulty they experienced in separating their work and their public personas from their private lives, which is perhaps most poignantly demonstrated by the fact that they literally slept with cameras and lights pointing at their beds.

In Discipline and Punish, Foucault (and forgive me, I've donated my copies of his books since I left college, so I'll be working from memory) describes the modern phenomenon of the "panopticon"-- a disciplinary tool of the modern era where rather than physically restraining or controlling transgressors, people are kept in line by the feeling that they are constantly being monitored. The knowledge of societal norms, and whether an individual has violated them, is the axis on which power turns.

During their time in London, Dan and Phil were experiencing a meteoric rise to fame which no one could have anticipated. Suddenly it seemed that their every gesture, every movement, every interaction with one another, was under constant scrutiny from millions of viewers. One can only imagine the degree to which that feeling spilled over into their day-to-day existence, because it must have-- I can't imagine putting on an act for the camera, scouring the footage for bits that seemed too revealing or vulnerable, and then trying to sleep in front of the same camera which, even if it wasn't on, represented the watching, monitoring gaze of the internet.

The social norm in question here, of course, was being gay. Mostly, anyway. A transgression of sexuality. Foucault has a lot to say about this too, of course, in the several volumes of his History of Sexuality. I won't get into that too much here. To summarize with a butcher's brevity, the modern conception of sexuality is, like that of criminality, shaped by the need to cognize, label, categorize, and scientifically observe it. At other points in the past, even when sexuality may have been perceived as deviant or wrong, it was treated as an act, not as an intrinsic flaw. To identify someone as being homosexual, or queer, or trans, or what have you, is a relatively new invention.

Were Dan and Phil gay? Were they just friends? Were they bisexual? Did they actually live together? Did they fuck? The near-rabid desire to get to the bottom of these questions was shaped in part by a societal urge in our culture to pin people down like butterflies in a collector's case. The knowledge of bodies, desires, and the latent Catholic urge to demand they all be confessed in excruciating detail haunted Dan and Phil wherever they went online.

In this new era then, are we doing any better? I think we are. Where the London apartment is documented by floor plan down to the last inch (and worse yet, was at one point doxxed), the phouse is an intentionally private space with plenty left to the imagination, where I do so hope the boys are living WITHOUT cameras pointed where they sleep. There's something interesting to me, too, in their disinterest in framing their relationship in concrete terms. The nature of their celebrity is bound to expose them to scrutiny, both from friendly and unfriendly gazes, but I feel like the main difference in their attitude these days is a plain refusal to allow the surveillance to dictate their lives. Some things, they just don't want to talk about. Some things they do (and oh boy, do they love to talk about those things).

Our cultural frameworks do us no favors in understanding this kind of ambiguity, but I think it's to our credit as an audience that overall I see more and more people embracing it. Foucault is a bit of a downer overall, but he concludes the History of Sexuality vol. 1 by saying something to the effect of, the best we can do is to follow our desires and try to find joy for ourselves and our communities in doing so. And a radically liberatory approach to desire and joy is I think exactly what this community cultivates at its best, for our boys and for ourselves.

[phantomfallacy]

There’s not nearly enough analyses of Wriothesley and the panopticon that is Meropide.

Like, sure, the connection is there, but are your lines connecting to the right points? Because if you think Wriothesley’s office is the control tower and the Fortress is his all-knowing domain, I think you’re wrong.

Spoilers for his character quest and the Meropide world quest ahead, as well as various tidbits in mini quests:

The Unfinished Comedy reveals that there is a child who had been born in the prison, more or less a decade ago. More than enough time for Wriothesley to “discover” her. But he doesn’t. He is, without a doubt, an advocator of children, and would never allow her to stay in prison if he can help it. No matter what excuse there is, such as being busy with the reformation of the prison, the Fatui invasion, or the Wingalet construction, it doesn’t negate the fact that Wriothesley doesn’t know, or he would’ve acted.

The Beret Society as well, while coming under Wriothesley’s purview, has existed long enough to brainwash and break the spirits of the people who have joined. He had no evidence that Dougier had been breaking rules and infringing on human rights.

So no, Wriothesley, contrary to the Fortress of Meropide description, does not know everything that goes on in the Fortress, and he tells us so.

So then why does the description say otherwise?

The concept of the panopticon is that a single prison warden can maintain order because people will never be able to tell if his eyes are on them. As a result, they will behave, regardless of whether the warden is truly watching or not. Wriothesley tells us that he doesn’t have eyes and ears everywhere because we are not a prisoner. We do not need to be intimidated into behaving. Moreover, the Traveler seems to be an exception to everything like a harem protagonist so let’s discount “our” knowledge of Wriothesley’s claim.

What I think slaps the most though, is that his panopticon isn’t just the Fortress, but the Court of Fontaine as well.

It is mentioned that Wriothesley knows the ongoings of the overworld despite rarely coming up. The citizens of Fontaine see Meropide as this horrible place, even after Wriothesley’s reforms, and it’s not only because of prejudice (though that is most certainly the case), but because of his refusal to be perceived. He refuses Charlotte’s interviews, though being a Duke would most certainly put him in the eye of the public. This is a tentative maintenance of his public persona: that of a cruel and unfathomable man.

“The less people see of me, the happier they will be.”

If people understood that Meropide had welfare meals, stable work hours, and relatively accessible healthcare, why would they be incentivized to follow the law? Especially those of Fleuvre Cendre. But Meropide cannot possibly be that kind of haven. It is a prison, and forever should be—because it is not sustainable.

What humans cannot understand, they fear, and that works to keep the rest of Fontaine in check from committing crimes. No one wants to go to prison, no one wants to suffer, no one wants to see the Duke of Meropide. It’s embedded into the very society, so much that they have pop culture-like phrases for it.

The Duke’s office isn’t the control tower. The whole of Meropide Fortress is, and Fontaine is the “prison.”

There are other interpretations of course, such as the factor of more recent commentary on panopticons and how they bring up the topic of holding those in absolute power accountable. The warden at the center of the panopticon has absolute power, but how is he to be kept accountable?

It could be a hint about how Wriothesley isn’t as in control as he presents himself, and the way he rules is dependent on the people who keep him in check. After all, he says that as Duke, he must set an example of persecuting only after evidence has been found of a wrongdoing, otherwise he could have simply killed Dougier. However, that would certainly bring the Fortress down around him as people questioned his reputation as a fair ruler. (Cough bringing back my sword of Damocles bullshit here//shot).

Alternatively, Wriothesley himself could be a sword of Damocles upon Fontaine, evidenced by Neuvillette’s story quest, but I feel like that would be a Wriolette thread…

Without the source material confirming anything, we’re just playing with Schrödinger’s cat though. Just some food for thought.

Next time on Dragon Ball Z: my TED Talk on why the Fortress of Meropide is not called the Fortress of Atlantis because Wriothesley presents it as communism but it is totalitarian and why that works— (Kidding, I don’t wanna touch this with a ten foot pole pls don’t respond with political philosophies I will perish 🫠🫠🫠😵)

[bitchslapblastoids]

thinking about the more cutting elements of the show... thinking about how they prod at the grotesquerie that is the youtube landscape now. something that was originally homespun and free and fun is now this soulless maw of manipulation and cynicism, and they're naming names.

thinking about the more cutting elements of their feedback for us; how the sweet homespun thing they birthed then morphed into something massive with its own acute levels of grotesquerie and horrors for the two of them. and how alongside all of the giddy love and joy and euphoria i've experienced these past couple of days, i have also been feeling some more complicated feelings. and i guess some of that may be shame, because for all the years i've loved them so, i was in the trenches participating in the retraumatization of dan (a word that kind of bowled me over to hear). and i sure as shit wasn't 12. i just fervidly wanted to know every damn thing i could. still do, i guess. tis my nature. but hearing dan describe him and phil as the internet's 'first true crime case' had me feeling quite specifically chastened. and sad.

because it is sad that their private world had all these porous slippery bits and all these intrusions and this panopticon around them and their every move, tracking every blush, every whisper of a mention of attraction to men, every possible slip-up, every morsel of their deeply personal love for one another. i imagine a feeling akin to a trapped animal. and you don't know where the predator is or even if there is a predator at all or if you're the one who has done something wrong, all you know is you're trapped. and there are helicopters and a searchlight too.

this isn't a mea culpa; i'm not looking for feedback or reassurances or anything. i really feel super duper okay about feeling this weirdness. i think it's probably good and healthy. i'm sure it's cathartic as hell for them to finally say all of this and point the finger at (some of) us. and we're moving on. they've moved on. i'm aware. and i don't think anyone else should feel any kind of way; i am not a proponent of shame. i hold a firm live and let live approach to fandom, so it feels weird to make this post when i've railed so much against the phandom's guilt complex.

but i did just want to dog-ear this somewhere. that among all of the sappy giddy fluttery feelings, i'm also feeling some weirdness and some reflection. and that amidst all of the joy and hilarity, there was some heavy fucking shit in that show. and so it is odd to feel like i was in some small way a participant in the construction and reinforcement of some of that shit. i know this may all feel like..yeah...duh...rudimentary....and yes of course i've considered this all before, i am self aware, yes. but it's different hearing it so explicitly from them in the flesh, you know?

[mitchasaurus-r3x]

Spoilers for all of tma :p

I had a tma time travel fic idea that basically goes like Jon gets sent back in time after mag200 and doesn’t find Martin, so he ditches the institute immediately and goes to current timeline Martin in his flat and Martin being the lovely, too kind man he is is like “OH MY GOD” and future jon is like “HEYY LISTEN IM FROM THE FUTURE AND YOU NEED TO DO THESE THINGS IF YOU WANT YOUR FRIENDS TO LIVE AND IM MOURNING BUT IM AWFUL AT FEELINGS SO IM PROJECTING MY LOVE AND CARE I SHOWED MY MARTIN ON U” and current Martin goes “ok.” So NOW what happens is Martin does stuff with future Jon’s advice, and current Tim and Sasha are so confused and suspicious but oddly enough current Jon isn’t? Instead he’s more kind and friendly to everyone, even Martin (only by a smidgen, he’s not that great)! But Martin is too caught up in whatever future Jon is saying will happen in the future, so he doesn’t quite notice.

Then eventually, the Vittery statement comes in, and Jon assigns it to Martin. Martin tells future Jon of this and he goes “NOOO NONO NOPE tell ur Jon to drop the case immediately , and do not go investigate.” So Martin calls up current Jon with his phone on speaker so future Jon can listen and current Jon is… surprisingly understanding? Like he just sort of, drops the case as soon as Martin mentions it. Actually, he says that he was planning on calling Martin to TELL him to drop it.

Which, is wierd.

Future Jon never remembers even thinking about asking Martin to drop the case, but maybe with Martin changing the timeline already he’s softening up quicker? Well whatever it is, good, Martin is off the case and hopefully will never need to ever meet Jane Prentiss or be so so lonely in his flat. But future Jon has a job to do, he still needs to eliminate Prentiss, and luckily he still has some residual Archivist powers. Not as powerful as in the apocalypse, but maybe alright for one more smiting (he decided to kill Jonah in a different way, preferably taking out his real body in the Panopticon). So he sneaks down to Vittery’s flat in the dead of night, not before telling Martin where he was going (Jon is all about communication now, he WILL make it up to this Martin, he WILL be better). He makes it down and plans to duck into the basement with the same window but… there’s someone(thing?) hunched over the basement window. Jon immediately goes Archivist mode, stalking up to this figure and … wait.

Martin?

No, he shouldn’t be here. Jon TOLD HIM to stay out of this, how dangerous this would be. In a sudden flash of anger he grabs Martin’s shoulder, ready to cuss the man out, and he whips around armed with… a fire extinguisher? And his hair is longer, and his stubble is gruffer, and his eyes are washed out and it’s… it’s his Martin. His Martin wielding a fire extinguisher at his chest, in an old band shirt, and smelling like old books and dust.

They kiss right there on the street, fire extinguisher squeezed between them, certain of crawling worms just inside that window ready to eat their flesh, but they kiss right there and everything is ok because somehow Martin made it here alive, and he didn’t find Jon in the Panopticon so he ditched in tears and went to the only place he could stand. Current Jon had stared at him, pissed, confused, worried, every combination of emotions but he let Martin stay, and Martin told him how to save his friends, to stop taking live statements, to keep the archives in chaos, and to make sure current Martin never goes to Vittery’s flat. And uhhh yeah they kill Jonah somehow and it’s one more for the everyone lives/nobody dies tag!

[kani-miso]

hngngngnggngn guyss what if the dude in the ending of the t2 summary, will influence es even further into their warden role (and maybe something really bad will happen)

we all know that the dude used "watashi" instead of jackalopes "ore-sama", this is really important. since we know in the novels, jackalope's aren't technically "jackalopes", they are technically "human", sort of. maybe, the dude who used watashi could be jackalope off of work, or the dude in the novel (the boss). the identity of that man isn't really important in this discussion, but i just want to find out ig.

what's important is, do you remember about the aviot collab? es' last test line is the main topic. (im to lazy to take the image). the line, "i(boku wa)... i(watashi.. wa..)...." iirc. the 1st "i", uses boku, their usual 1st person pronoun. boku is usually used by young boys, but in this case they're using it since boku is used by workers (boku is also gender neutral). the 2nd "i" uses watashi, they have NEVER used this 1st person. what if, the reason why they used watashi, is because of that dude in the ending of t2 summary using watashi. only we can hear that dude since he appeared when es is put to sleep, if they are taking reference off of that dude, how did they hear it? the viewers mind and es' mind is sorta connected (the reason why es can hear our thoughts).

before es is put to sleep, jackalope is awfully manipulative i will rip my guts out. "and anyway, whatever happens to them, none of it can be taken back. its not for the guard to worry about. that's right, you are the guard. don't doubt it. that is your job. as long as you dont forget that, it's fine. now that you understand, go to sleep, es."

its not for the guard to worry about : jackalope knows that es has their full trust on him, he's using that as a chance to take advantage of their own feelings, making them slowly lose empathy for the prisoners. also, maybe jackalope said this because he knows es feels guilty for what happened to the guiltied (…I'm sorry. I'm responsible for the fact that you've ended up like this.) ig he is supposed to be the representation of the all seeing eye in the panopticon.

that's right, you are the guard. don't doubt it : in some occasions, es doubted their role of being the warden (ex: "Guard-san"... Is that really... me?). since they're doubting their role, i think jackalope is trying to push the warden role onto them so they wont ever give up and become a vulnurable target of "manipulation" for the prisoners.

as long as you dont forget that, it's fine : yeah ig its self explanatory.

also, the last line, "oh yes, just as i predicted, you have all turned out to be...." its so smart. in the original milgram experiment, there are three results: 1. those who followed the rules but blamed themselves for what they did 2. those who followed the rules and felt great for what they did (because they thought they actually hurt the person) 3. those who rebelled and halted the experiment. in the back of the undercover cd, there's 3 es'

and i think they can be connected to each of the results. the one on the top could be the 1st result, the one on the middle could be the 2nd result, and the third one could be the 3rd result.

i love how they just cut it off before he says what we all turned out since there's three results that could happen. because we technically have the idea of what es could end up after t3, i wonder how much farther would they go to be the ideal warden (especially with how jackalope is persuading es to not worry about what happens to the prisoners).

(+edit: a jp person translated the ending part where it glitches, its "you have all turned out to be psychopaths who enjoy other people's misery", which is technically the result of the real milgram experiment, even stanley milgram himself was horrified of the results, "a very high proportion of subjects would fully obey the instructions, with every participant going up to 300 volts, and 65% going up to the full 450 volts.".

i might be reaching too far so take this with a grain of salt

tldr; the dude at the end of t2 summary will worsen es

[thetriboulet]

Woooo so the Magnus Protocol premiered and I have things to say and things to overanalyse!

As we know, 'Chester', 'Neil' and 'Augustus' are, maybe?, Jon, Martin, and Jonah, respectively. Hence this:

And, of course, there's 'J1', 'M1' and 'J2' in the trailer.

However, I've seen confusion over the fact that the third 'Error' is voiced by Tim Fearon, who as far as I'm aware has not previously voiced any characters in the Magnus universe. Even though the name is distorted, I can make out what looks to be an H at the end of the name, so this very well may be Jonah.

My theory is this: 'Augustus' is Jonah (or just his voice). However, since the body of Elias was killed in the Panopticon, Jonah does not use Elias' voice anymore. Jon, Martin, and Jonah are all disembodied, if we are to believe they are somehow inside the computer/other technology (ie Alice/Sam's phone in the pub scene) or in some way somewhere adjacent to the world of Protocol. So it could, in a dream-logicy eldritch sense, follow that Jonah is able to survive in his own creepy old ass man way, and use his original voice. Obviously, I cannot corroborate this claim in any meaningful way. We have not heard Augustus speak yet, but I think it is a possibility nonetheless.

The fact that Augustus supposedly shows up to read cases aloud significantly less than Chester and Neil could also be a clue. Maybe Jonah is weaker than Jon and Martin due to his injuries, and is therefore unable to materialise as often as Jon and Martin. Maybe the voice that speaks the true cases (because, similarly to how true statements were identified using the tape recorder in TMA, I imagine true cases will be singled out using the text to speech system) is relevant to the case itself - ie, Jonah only speaks when a case is heavily linked to the Eye, etc.

Furthermore, there's the question of who is spying on who and when/why. By this I mean that we hear our perspective switch between devices (the phone, the computer, the security camera during Colin and Sam's interaction, etc), and I believe that this happens because one or more of the 'Errors' (as I am going to refer to them henceforth) is travelling between devices to spy on the characters' conversations. What we hear is dictated by what the Errors, characters who have prior knowledge of the Fears, deem important. This is backed up by the episode's closing scene: Colin's paranoid closing lines. It is clear that Colin believes someone is listening to them, and it is implied that he has made a connection between this and the Errors. What intrigues me is the Errors' motivation for doing this at all. If what they deem important is what we hear, and this is the first that we are hearing, then it seems to me that it is Sam's arrival that has given them cause for concern, or (in Jonah's case) hope (if he is plotting to return, or something, I don't put it past the scheming weasel). So, why are they listening? And how can we really tell if what we are hearing is the spying of Jonah, or of Jon and Martin?

Another thing. Jonny makes a point of letting us know that Alice does not think the work they do is of any significance, or is checked by anyone. She constantly mentions it in passing and is very casual in her attitude towards work. We obviously have the foresight to know this isn't true. The reason I point this out is because of what Sam does when filling out his paperwork: he ticks the 'Response' box, to which Alice responds that it doesn't matter. This could be nothing, it probably is nothing, but I feel like the fact that Sam has ticked the onboarding box of a mysterious department of an already mysertious organisation might come up later...

Yes I know I am jumping to a lot of conclusions, especially where the Errors are concerned. Please take every theory you hear, from me or anyone else, with a grain of salt, this is all speculative. From a writer's perspective, I honestly think it's pretty likely that Chester and Neil aren't actually Jon and Martin, and just their voices taken by the Web or something, but shh I can dream.

Edit: oh my god they changed his name to Norris that is even worse. Jonny and Alex were fr like 'neil is too kind, we need the name to be Chester levels of horrific'

[ddarker-dreams]

lock!!! I need ur thoughts on Wriothesley

holding myself hostage to not go on another panopticon tangent

wriothesley has piqued my interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the underwater prison in particular adds so many unique possibilities to him as a yandere. one of my absolute favorite horror experiences is the game soma, with its decrepit submarines and the intense claustrophobia from being stuck underwater... i find the ocean terrifying. like wtf is going on down there. what is a leviathan. why are giant sea beasts mentioned consistently throughout so many ancient cultures. Why are there noises picked up in the ocean that cannot be sourced. why are anglerfish. why why why.

as it relates to yan wriothesley — the fortress of meropide would have a subjugating presence that rivals his. creaking metal vents, dripping pipes, the all-consuming scent of saltwater and rust; running back to his arms would be a temptation. it'd play an integral role to ensuring your cooperation. wriothesley doesn't demand complete submission. he knows human nature, the tenacity sentience imbues, for better or for worse. he doesn't see the appeal in dampening the flames that burn within you. he'd rather build a perimeter around it that'll keep the fire from spreading and burning too hot.

total transparency isn't how he operates, though. he'll clue you in, build the maze you're to navigate, but won't hand over the blueprints. you're free to traverse the fortress as you please. you can talk to whoever you want, say whatever you want, such is your prerogative. at first, you can't help but find him naively arrogant. he might be "the duke," but even he must have limitations.

or so you think.

the vacant areas that guards seemingly overlook wind and stretch for miles. each step diminishes your hope, little by little. will your provisions last? do you really have the expertise to pull off a successful dive and ascent? why did a prudent man such as wriothesley leave a potential escape route unobstructed? these doubts are weights that drag you down, and, inevitably, back to where he waits.

this leaves pleading your case to your fellow inmates or the guards. the first time you try, it's a rush of adrenaline, stumbling over your words just in case he'd come dragging you back at a moment's notice. this incoherent accusation of his grace forging false evidence to keep you here, in the depths where he'd like you, doesn't go as you dreamed. you're either met with awkward apprehension or outright ignored. in the case of the former, it's safe to assume they think you're having a break from reality. the latter is worse, more cruel; they can see where you're coming from and elect to do nothing about it. why should they endanger themselves for your sake? it's a dog-eat-dog world in the fortress.

defeated and humiliated, you return to the administrative area 'willingly.' there he waits, the door unlocked to show he anticipated your return, leisurely sipping his tea. he isn't angry, bitter, or vicious. he just simply asks,

"did you have a nice chat?"

[kell-be-belle]

TMAGP Thoughts (Spoilers)

I'm an RQ Patreon so I got to hear EP 1 & 2 of Protocol today and I know it'll be a few days for general hype, I need to share my thoughts about a very specific part while it's still fresh in my mind. I'm going to try hard to be articulate about it, but I'm also having a lot of feelings. Spoilers below the cut

On the subject of the program known as Norris. Now, I know that there's no official equation between Norris and Martin Blackwood, but for argument's sake, I'm going to treat them as related. This is also all my own speculation so bear with me.

The first significant sentence we hear Norris say in their reading is "I just couldn't face the thought of the rest of my life never hearing him again." and when I say it knocked the air clean from my lungs, I cannot be exaggerating any less. I immediately burst into tears.

First off, the fact that the reading specifically states the idea of never hearing a loved one's voice again, in a series where voice holds such power, has implications that I can barely even begin to fathom at this moment. And the fact that it is Martin's voice speaking about it must have reason. From what I've gathered in Jonny's writing, there isn't much that can be chalked up to coincidence and I most certainly don't believe that could be the case in something as highly anticipated as Protocol.

Now, as far as we know from the end of Archives, Martin has successfully killed Jon. It's highly likely that Martin is also killed, however, we can still hear him breathing and crying even as the Panopticon collapses around them. It's perfectly reasonable to speculate that Martin somehow survived the aftermath. Meaning, Martin could have very possibly been left to process the insurmountable grief of losing Jon by himself (Which has other themes tying back to his connection with The Lonely that I can't even touch upon)

The reading made by Norris talks about a grieving spouse who is going to some relatively extreme lengths to be reconnected with their husband, Arthur. It appears as though the dearly departed Arthur has somehow come back to the mortal plane. There could be a couple of explanations for this, but I think it could mostly likely be one of two. Either, something is masquerading as Arthur OR Arthur has come back, but has come back wrong.

So here is where things get really sad for me because this is the scenario my mind supplied me with upon gathering all this information:

Martin survives the fall of the Panopticon. Jon is dead. Martin grieves for his lost love. The grief becomes so deep and so all-consuming that Martin becomes desperate to scrounge for any scrap of Jon that could possibly remain. It leads Martin down roads best left untraveled and perhaps, but some miracle or more appropriately a curse, Jon has somehow come back, but, like Arthur, he's come back wrong. Perhaps something with the Eye or the Web or the other fears that possibly looks like Jon, almost certainly sounds like Jon, but is not Jon. And now Martin is left with an impossible choice. To lose himself in the sound of a voice he feared he would never hear again or acknowledge that voice speaks hollow words and silence it to himself permanently.

Anyway, this feels like a bit of a ramble, but I hope it makes enough sense. While a lot of it is speculation, I don't think the fact that it was that particular reading done in that particular voice after those particular events is without some significance. Only time will tell us the truth of what happened. 

[madbadash]

Ok TMAGP fans. I know we love the Theorizing and the like "oooooooh Augustus could be anyone?!?!" But if we think about this logically there is only one answer, and I will explain under the cut. Literally finale TMA spoilers

If Chester and Norris are Jon and Martin then Augustus is Jonah, no doubt about it.

Now, there's a lot of reasons this may seem like the case just looking at vauge hints. The fact that Augustus is an older voice. The multiple instances of JMJ. But, there is proof I find DEFINITIVE in telling us that Augustus is Jonah.

He was the only other one in the panopticon when it was pulled away

Now you might be thinking "oh Tumblr user you are so dumb! Elias was the one in the panopticon!!!" And you are sort of right!!! However in MAG 193 after Jon takes the original Elias' statement Martin asks if Elias is still in there

Jon responds

(Image ID: a screenshot of the transcript of MAG Episode 193. It is just the dialogue that states "No... No. It was... an echo. The last spasm of a corpse. It-It's far too late for either of them.)

This means that Elias is solely the body that Jonah continues to inhabit. We also know that Jonah in general has some very strange rules about his consciousness. I mean. Bros 200 years old he's got some tricks.

Now let's flash forward to MAG 200. Jon kills Elias/Jonah and takes the spot as the Eye's pupil. Martin comes up after the statement and the girls blow up the bottom of the panopticon, starting it's collapse/implosion, whatever you want to call it. Jon tells Martin that they have to sever the fears. Kiss, everything ends.

But then we cut to the aftermath.

And Basira says this, which is the lynchpin in the idea that Augustus must be Jonah

(Image ID: a screenshot from the transcript of MAG 200. It reads Basira: No bodies, though. That's a good sign, maybe?)

No bodies?

The only 3 people in the panopticon when the fears are sent away were Jon, Martin, and Jonah. Rosie was sent away when Jon became the pupil. They are the only ones who could possibly fill the rolls of Chester, Norris, and Augustus.

[thevoidcannotbefilled]

Actually going to make this reply its own separate post. TLDR: I have a theory that Chester, Norris, and Augustus are essentially spooky AI created from datasets from the fears/tapes.

Now, @gammija and @shinyopals weren't sure how Augustus fit into this. Right now, the leading theory is that he is Jonah Magnus. He only had one statement in the show, so there's basically no data to collect, so why would he be an AI?

Hypothetically speaking, let's say he isn't Jonah. Or at the very least, he isn't the Jonah we know.

Here's an idea: Augustus isn't the TMA Jonah Magnus, but rather the Jonah Magnus of the TMagP universe.

Here's my current thoughts as to why this may be the case:

1) TMA Jonah is dead. Jon had to kill him in order to control the Panopticon. While I won't discount TMA Jonah's and TMagP's Jonah's memories combining, I don't think it can be entirely TMA's in there.

2) I'm pretty confident that Freddie has connections to the Institute, for a variety of reasons. If nothing else, Freddie could have been connected to them before the Institute burned down in 1999. And unless it's a different Magnus starting the Institute, I'm just going to assume for now that Jonah started the Institute in both universes.

3) Augustus already separated himself out from Norris and Chester in two ways. He speaks less than the two of them but also his case is really odd which I'll go into next.

4) Augustus is the only Text-to-Speech voice who didn't say where his case came from. Norris and Chester so far have always told us where they're reading from. They say links, they mention threads and who said what in each thread, and we know each different email sent. Meanwhile, Augustus can't even tell us who the case giver is in "Taking Notes". This wouldn't mean much, but... we also know that all the papers in The Institute are gone. Noticeably so. Perhaps even integrated into the Freddie system.

5) Tbh... I just think it would be more interesting if they aren't all three from the same place. We know from the promotion, the Ink5oul case, especially the design of the logo that alchemy will be a major part of TMagP. Transformation and immortality. I wouldn't put it past this universe's Jonah to try to search for immortality in his own way.

And this is less of a point and more of a general obversation. We have zero clue how these three got to this state. Even if we assume "fears stuff" generally the fears and how they transform people have some sort of logic to it, dream or not. I don't currently understand the logic yet on why they've become this. Also, we don't know what triggered them integrating into Freddie in the first place.

There's an outside force at play here, and I think it would be interesting if Augustus was a key factor to understanding it.

[doggiewoggiez]

idk babe i think you just maybe started following some incest blogs and said well if theyr posting it

i think incest is good and beautiful and hot and romantic and fun and honorable and interesting and i condone it both in fiction and in real life. these are my honest opinions and i share those opinions with many mutuals, whom i found and followed because they share those views.

i used to have much shittier opinions born from internet panopticon fear and raised-catholic disgust reactions and nursed by the social rewards that being a Hater provides but that's a very sad thing and im a much happier person now that i don't feel that way. i wish i always knew what i know now because i would've hurt a lot less people if that was the case

i've been sneaky about it on here since the summer but the last couple months the mask has been fully off so im surprised you never, um, noticed before?

[akaikali]

TMAGP EP 10 REACTION (SPOILERS)

WAIT OH MY GOD. DID THEY USE MR. BONZO AT THE MAGNUS INSTITUTE FOR THEIR CHILD EXPERIMENTS???? ALSO THIS IS VERY GIVING ANNABELLE CANE CHILDREN'S TV SHOW.

MR. BONZO???? NIGEL DICKERSON???? This is strange especially after last ep Gwen was just told to go find Nigel Dickerson. I wonder who's seeing this case reading.

HELLO??? IS THAT THE MAN BEHIND THE SLAUGHTER???? KILLING PEOPLE IN A COSTUME?????

Oh my God hello???? "Why won't he let me go??" INTERESTING. IS MR. BONZO GONNA BE LIKE. A THING.

COLIN???? HE SOUNDS???? BETTER??????

Oh never mind he's still trying to kill the puters.

"Sam there us honestly nowhere I'd rather be than here with you." ALICE RIZZ DAMN GIRLLLLL

Hmm interesting that this one just...Played for Celia. Coincidentally at the same time Gwen is going to confront Nigel. And with Celia's curious nature, well... I think we might see some more Celia and Gwen?? Maybe??? Also no puter voices for Celia???

"Ow" okay that was adorable Sam

"Carved floor in the big atrium" HEY WHAT HELLO???? ARE THERE SYMBOLS OR SOMETHING??? PERHAPS OF THE FEARS???

OH MY GOD GWEN. SHE BABYGIRLED TOO CLOSE TO THE SUN.

ALICE IS SO WEAK FOR SAM AKSHAJFBE

"I'm sorry for this" FOR CALLING A FUCKING MURDEROUS CLOWN ON ME???? FUCK OFF BONZO????

"Can he read???" Oh this is "You don't sound Russiam?" coded

Okay yeah so. So. So yeah. Like I. Okay yeah I get why Lena is doing what she is. But also like. Hey what is Bonzo exactly bc that sure doesn't seem like a human! And also exactly who is he going to kill?

WAIT. WAIT WAIT WAIT. TAPE RECORDERS IN AN OFFICE??? ARCHIE??? ARCHIVE? OH MY GOD THIS IS TOO MUCH.

Also does Nigel just. Have a pet murderous clown now. Is that what's happening. Reading.

OTHERWORLDLY POWER????

"Gosh ur sexy" YEAH YOU ARE ALICE

"Why they chose us...Why they didn't choose me" hmMmMMmmMm my theory about Sam being the opposite of Jon is popping off. Jon never chose to be an avatar but I feel like Sam might chose to be something...Not an avatar but SOMETHING.

Alice PLEASE BABYGIRL. YOU'RE SO OBVIOUS.

IM SORRY. THE TRAPDOOR???? WHAT?????? SOMEONE IS BREATHING???? SO THE HOLE IMPLIES THE TUNNELS STILL EXIST WHICH BY PROXY MEANS THE PANOPTICON MIGHT STILL EXIST??? AND THE TRAPDOOR EXISTING. I DONT EVEN KNOW MAN WHAT THE FUCK.

I JUST CHECKED THE AUDIO CREDITS AND BETH EYRE??? AS IN LUCIA WRIGHT BETH EYRE???? AS IN MISS MA'AM WHO ESCAPED THE FLESH RITUAL AND TOLD GERTRUDE ABOUT IT????

AND NOW WE GOT NOTHING FOR THE NEXT 4 WEEKS YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME RUSTY QUILL IM GONNA GO INSANE-

Edit: MY DUMB ASS MISSED THE WORM TRACK COMMENT HEY ALICE WHAT THE FUCK. HEY I RLY HOPS JANE PRENTISS IS NOT WORMING AROUND. I WANT HER TO BE HAPPY AND LOVED.