#i think between the two of them jon has it worse

[best-magnus-archives-character]

Why do you think voting for Jon means being ok with how he treated Tim?

(major tma spoilers ahead)

i think the podcast does a very good job explaining that Jon distrusts and stalks his coworkers because 1. he just found out his predecessor was killed by someone In The Institute, not a monster like he had expected and 2. The presence of the NotThem literally gives him paranoia. like idk if maybe i misunderstood smth but to me it was clear the NotThem was a huge influence on his mental state at the time. Now is that an excuse? No, nor am i saying it is. In fact Jon himself feels guilt when he realizes what he did (or at least it seems to me like he does). And about the work power imbalance- I don't see how tumblr being "the pro worker website" would affect how individuals see a fictional character, but I do think its a disservice to your own point when you point out work dynamics when clearly the main problem was the betrayal of trust due to their friendship. You should google what gaslighting means, by the way. They are coworkers, yes, but they are also friends, maybe that's a wild concept to you but it happens in real life too. And that's what Tim's pissed about. Yes, Jon was able to do what he did because he's their boss, but the problem is the betrayal, and the "cause" for Tim's depression is the PTSD after the Jane Prentiss situation, not Jon. Jon adds salt to the wound, because the person who went through the worst of it with him and should understand how Tim feels doesn't trust him for similarly no good reason. Then he's depressed because of Sasha, and he doesnt have his friends anymore because Jon betrayed his trust and Martin is, from Tim's perspective, taking Jon's side. He's not depressed because of Jon although I'll happily admit Jon did not help at all.

That said, Tim lived a good life before what happened to Danny. He was even fine again for a bit before joining the Archives. His depression arc is painful, but he's not the only one struggling, and I don't think that's enough to say he's more mistreated. Tim gets the ending he wants, and it's as heartbreaking as it is cathartic. He suffers, yes. And it's fine if you think he has it worse than Jon, but to get mad at people for voting Jon because you think Jon is the monster who made Tim suffer seems like taking this a bit too seriously to me???

I mean just look at the whole story. I'd argue that anyone who lives ends up suffering more than the characters who die, simply because they're present for more bad things.

Jon's parents died when he was a child and he was raised by a grandma that mostly tolerated him. Then we have the Mr. Spider incident (whether that's worse than what happened to Tim and Danny is entirely up to personal opinion, I think the way Tim lost Danny is a much sadder story, but Jon seeing that as a child might've left a deeper scar)

It also marked him in a very literal sense, that his entire life from then on was controlled both by The Web and, while he works for the institute, by Jonah. His choices mean nothing in the end and everything he does ends badly. They all go through the Prentiss situation. Tim suffers from Jon's betrayal, and Jon suffers with his paranoia and the constant certainty that he will be killed by his own friends. They all suffer the loss of Sasha, Jon tries to make it right by breaking the table and almost dies. He leaves the man who saved him alone in a room for a moment and the guy dies, he comes back to a corpse. He gets kidnapped multiple times, goes into a coma, comes back into the whole situation that is season 4, where everybody hates him because he's slowly turning into a monster even if it's not a conscious choice (did he ever have one?). The one person who doesn't hate him is avoiding him (Martin). He saves Daisy and even that doesn't make Basira trust him again. He finds a friend in Daisy, someone who literally tried to kill him before, and then Post-Change he has to witness what she's become, and she doesn't even recognize him, only Basira (which makes perfect sense, but I find the scene in which he confesses that made him sad to be heartbreaking). He's also constantly Seeing everyone suffer through an apocalypse he was forced to cause, including the children in Callum's domain.

Then he finds out his whole life he was a puppet, and when he tries to break free of the strings and do what he thinks is right (there was no right answer in the finale, whether you agree with Jon or not, the whole point is that there's no right answer) that's immediately taken away from him and we all know how that ended for him and Martin.

And then, there's people in the fandom who constantly demonize him for his mistakes, while as far as I've seen Tim is a widely beloved character, I'm sure there's Tim haters out there too, you seem to have encountered some from the way you said people blame Tim, I personally never encountered any. So maybe our perspectives on this one will just be opposites because of personal experience, I guess.

Anyway, I genuinely think Jon checks the boxes for both mistreated by the narrative and mistreated by the fandom. And maybe Tim does too! This isn't even Jon propaganda honestly. I'd be fine with either of them moving forward. They both suffer a lot and it's heartbreaking. This Tim propaganda just really rubbed me the wrong way and I wanted to say something. The fact that Jon does carry some responsibility to Tim's pain doesn't exclude Jon's own suffering, so I don't really get your point. And I don't see what you gain by acting like its a moral mistake to vote Jon?

Then again maybe I'm the one who took it too seriously, I don't know.

(sorry for rambling on your post, op)

Round 1: Right Side - Jonathan Sims (The Magnus Archives) vs. Tim Stoker (The Magnus Archives)

[annabelle--cane]

I don't really know what this bit is trying to do but they spend a while in the last act of s5 setting up this weird little miscommunication about helen between jon and melanie. in mag 190, when melanie and martin are talking, she brings up of her own accord that helen has turned dangerous and she feels like a fool for having liked her, and martin tells her jon killed helen as a type of reassurance. this conferral of information clearly does not get passed to jon, because when he meets up with basira in mag 195 and tells her that he killed helen, she says that melanie will probably take it badly when she finds out because the two of them were pretty close a while back. finally, in mag 199, melanie says that jon should be capable of killing elias "like he did to helen," and jon clearly starts to respond as though that were some passive snipe that he needs to apologize for before the conversation moves on.

like. what purpose do you think this is trying to serve? the effect is that jon believes, with fairly good reason, that melanie thinks worse of him than she actually does, but I can't place a finger of why. I'm having difficulty scruting it, as it were. thoughts?

[eruherdiriel]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately is how Jon knows what it's like to be burned. With his hand, he doesn't feel it in the moment but that's probably adrenaline more than anything else.

"You do not look well. How is your hand?" "Healing." Jon flexed his bandaged fingers to show him. He had burned himself more badly than he knew throwing the flaming drapes, and his right hand was swathed in silk halfway to the elbow. At the time he'd felt nothing; the agony had come after. His cracked red skin oozed fluid, and fearsome blood blisters rose between his fingers, big as roaches. "The maester says I'll have scars, but otherwise the hand should be as good as it was before." "A scarred hand is nothing. On the Wall, you'll be wearing gloves often as not." It was not the thought of scars that troubled Jon; it was the rest of it. Maester Aemon had given him milk of the poppy, yet even so, the pain had been hideous. At first it had felt as if his hand were still aflame, burning day and night. Only plunging it into basins of snow and shaved ice gave any relief at all. Jon thanked the gods that no one but Ghost saw him writhing on his bed, whimpering from the pain.

-AGOT, Jon VIII

And then there's the scene of his wound getting cauterized. Which, yeah, he's otherwise injured and just escaped the wildlings, experiencing a lot of physical pain and internal turmoil, etc., etc. Still:

Maester Aemon sniffed Jon's wound again. Then he put the bloody cloth back in the basin and said, "Donal, the hot knife, if you please. I shall need you to hold him still." I will not scream, Jon told himself when he saw the blade glowing red hot. But he broke that vow as well. Donal Noye held him down, while Clydas helped guide the maester's hand. Jon did not move, except to pound his fist against the table, again and again and again. The pain was so huge he felt small and weak and helpless inside it, a child whimpering in the dark. Ygritte, he thought, when the stench of burning flesh was in his nose and his own shriek echoing in her ears. Ygritte, I had to. For half a heartbeat the agony started to ebb. But then the iron touched him once again, and he fainted.

-ASOS, Jon VI

This doesn't even touch on how he feels about the R'hollor crew and stories of people intentionally being burned. Whether he's there when King's Landing burns or hears about it, he will be able to empathize with the people of the city. There will be survivors, some with burns like on his hand and some with way worse. There won't be enough milk of the poppy for everyone. There will be men, women, children, soldiers, civilians, and old people burned and screaming in pain. Before KL burns, Jon will have heard about the other places DT has been as well. They're not gonna be pals.

But there will be conflict in his interactions with DT. Jon fiddles with his hands when he's conflicted or distressed:

Jon's breath misted the air. If I lie to him, he'll know. He looked Mance Rayder in the eyes, opened and closed his burned hand. "I wear the cloak you gave me, Your Grace."

-ASOS, Jon II

Lots of examples from AGOT, when his hand is still freshly burned and in more pain:

"Grief and noise," Mormont grumbled. "That's all they're good for, ravens. Why I put up with that pestilential bird … if there was news of Lord Eddard, don't you think I would have sent for you? Bastard or no, you're still his blood. The message concerned Ser Barristan Selmy. It seems he's been removed from the Kingsguard. They gave his place to that black dog Clegane, and now Selmy's wanted for treason. The fools sent some watchmen to seize him, but he slew two of them and escaped." Mormont snorted, leaving no doubt of his view of men who'd send gold cloaks against a knight as renowed as Barristan the Bold. "We have white shadows in the woods and unquiet dead stalking our halls, and a boy sits the Iron Throne," he said in disgust. The raven laughed shrilly. "Boy, boy, boy, boy." Ser Barristan had been the Old Bear's best hope, Jon remembered; if he had fallen, what chance was there that Mormont's letter would be heeded? He curled his hand into a fist. Pain shot through his burned fingers. "What of my sisters?"

-AGOT, Jon VIII

When Jon had been Bran's age, he had dreamed of doing great deeds, as boys always did. The details of his feats changed with every dreaming, but quite often he imagined saving his father's life. Afterward Lord Eddard would declare that Jon had proved himself a true Stark, and place Ice in his hand. Even then he had known it was only a child's folly; no bastard could ever hope to wield a father's sword. Even the memory shamed him. What kind of man stole his own brother's birthright? I have no right to this, he thought, no more than to Ice. He twitched his burned fingers, feeling a throb of pain deep under the skin. "My lord, you honor me, but—"

-AGOT, Jon VIII

Jon raised the hood of his heavy cloak and gave the horse her head. Castle Black was silent and still as he rode out, with Ghost racing at his side. Men watched from the Wall behind him, he knew, but their eyes were turned north, not south. No one would see him go, no one but Sam Tarly, struggling back to his feet in the dust of the old stables. He hoped Sam hadn't hurt himself, falling like that. He was so heavy and so ungainly, it would be just like him to break a wrist or twist his ankle getting out of the way. "I warned him," Jon said aloud. "It was nothing to do with him, anyway." He flexed his burned hand as he rode, opening and closing the scarred fingers. They still pained him, but it felt good to have the wrappings off.

-AGOT, Jon IX

Not until he was well beyond the village did Jon slow again. By then both he and the mare were damp with sweat. He dismounted, shivering, his burned hand aching. A bank of melting snow lay under the trees, bright in the moonlight, water trickling off to form small shallow pools. Jon squatted and brought his hands together, cupping the runoff between his fingers. The snowmelt was icy cold. He drank, and splashed some on his face, until his cheeks tingled. His fingers were throbbing worse than they had in days, and his head was pounding too. I am doing the right thing, he told himself, so why do I feel so bad?

-AGOT, Jon IX

[satinoflowers]

Hey! What are your thoughts on Satin being a Reach lord’s bastard? I think GRRM kinda left it open for himself, but there’s seeds of being a lord’s son for sure. Or do you have other theories?

Thank you so much for the ask!! <333

Textually theres a decent amount of suggestion to me that satin is a lord's son. He uses the formally educated "my lord" instead of the common "m'lord" when addressing jon, which rly stands out to me as grrm seems to be consistent with this. Satin is a crackshot with a crossbow despite minimal training, and i like the reddit user muflonlesli's point about tyrion's line about "i never thought to feed the fire, that had always been a servant's task" in regards to satin not being as diligent with lighting jon's. That one always stuck with me because as fanficable that that character trait is within satin, in the context of the chapter it does seem a strange bit of coloring to add. Satin is proved diligent, so by pointing out his negligence in that aspect i think grrm is purposefully and specifically hilighting it.

One of my favorite hints to him having the surname flowers (which is an incredible reach and is so so sodelusional of me. I mean seriously take this with a pound of salt) is the line from acok, dany iv where she has the vision with the "sweet-scented blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice"... hear me out, instead of having blue roses be represntative of lyanna, think of them as being a symbol of love within lyanna's line. If r+l=j and satin SPECIFICALLY has a line about the "sweet-scented oil" being registered by jon in the godswood on an icy day,, satin is the sweet smelling blue FLOWER (bastard surname in the reach) and jon is courting him just as rhaegar courted lyanna. And if u think about it. Jon does need a nyssa nyssa so like how far of a reach would it be to say that by comparing jon+rhaegar and their need for a cute person to fulfill a prophecy,, u get sweet smelling satin flowers???🤪🤪🤪

Realistically i dont think theres much of anything to be gained by having him be a lord's bastard, though. It serves as explanation for his mannerisms and character traits for sure (theres also the littlefinger's spy theory but again i dont see the need for him to have one that far from kl and having nothing to do w the current events in his story. Maybe he is a jonsa stan idk) but... the only addition would be to his role within the story on a meta level, if grrm is hinting at a parallel between satinjon and another pairing of characters, which is rife with opportunity for sure.

One more thing to add would be that since empathizing with and aiding those in marginalized groups/ different walks of life from jon's own is so vital within his story (including satin being a prostitute), having satin be a fellow bastard in a much worse position than jon would be a decent addition. Does that set jon up for empathizing with those whose bastard-ry leaves them in positions in which they must make (in jons judgement) immoral choices? In satins case, prostitution, but in aegon vi blackfyre's case? If satin is as important to jons story as i hope he'll be, then a conversation/ philosophic monologue in a jon pov about discrimination being different across class division with those two could be poignant in regards to jons development and future actions.

[apollo-likes-writing]

June of Doom Day One - "Help Me."

Characters: Bruce Wayne/Batman, Clark Kent/Superman, Alfred Pennyworth, Ra's Al-Ghul (mentioned), Tim Drake/Red Robin, Damian Wayne/Robin, Stephanie Brown/Spoiler, Dick Grayson/Nightwing

Summary: Bruce has always been stubborn, much to the dismay of those around him. It's only when he has no other option that he actually decides to ask for assistance.

Word count: 1603

Tags: Light angst, light gore, injuries, depictions/recountance of injuries and violence, medicine/medical terminology.

Author's Note: In comparison to other angst fics I've written, this one is incredibly tame. Call it the calm before the storm for this challenge lol. Enjoy! As always, feel free to like, comment, and reblog. It helps me out a bunch.

@juneofdoom

Masterlist | Day Two

The Dark Knight is revered across the world as being untouchable. Unbeatable. The stuff of legend that you tell your kids about so they will behave. “You better be good, or the Batman will come and get you in the night!” It works a treat. There are some people in the world who don’t even think He exists. They believe it’s clever CGI or paid trauma actors or a talented cosplayer (as to what they’re cosplaying is up for debate, for obvious reasons). Like on of those fake movies where people on social media work together in their thousands to gaslight people into thinking they exist when they don’t. It’s not true, of course. Batman is as human as any other person on Earth (except for the large variety of aliens that also call Earth home, but that’s another thing to ignore). He is human. He has skin and lungs and teeth and a tongue; and with such things comes vulnerability. The Dark Knight is not untouchable, and he certainly isn’t unbeatable. 

Especially considering the state he is currently in. 

It is well-known throughout the hero community that Ra’s Al-Ghul is not a man to be messed with. Whenever his name pops up on mission briefs it is always given to the more capable heroes in the Watchtower. Usually the Big Three: Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, and today was no different. When the small-time hero of somewhere unimportant came shuffling over to his office to timidly poke his head through the door, Batman was surprisingly quite understanding. 

“That must have been a formatting error. I’ll handle it, don’t worry. Ra’s Al-Ghul isn’t a villain for the regular hero. Thank you for bringing this to me, Jerry.” 

How on earth he knew the man’s name was between him and the gods. He scampered off and out of Batman’s office before he got the chance to ask, his own fear getting the best of him. How heroic. 

Now, while Bruce is clutching his side and using his cape as an impromptu bandage across his torso, he wishes that Clark and Diana were not on their respective breaks. 

“The kids are on school break. I’m going to take them to visit Ma and Pa for the weekend. Shout if you need me, Bruce.” 

“My sisters in Themyscira have requested my presence for a ceremony of some kind. It is apparently important, so I will be back in about a week.” 

He can’t blame them, of course. Superhero work is tough, and everyone is in need of a break now and again. Jon and Kon are important to Clark, as are his own children to Bruce, so he understands. And the surprise birthday party for Diana has been in the works for months. Being the only naturally born Themysciran, it is a ceremony worth celebrating for the Amazons, so Bruce can’t fault them either. He just wishes their departures could have been spaced out a little more so he wouldn’t have to deal with Ra’s alone. 

Now, in the middle of god-knows-where in some North African country, he is alone. Crippled by some sort of Lazarus Pit magic that was blasted across his thigh and various sword-related wounds dotted around his torso and legs. He’s been in worse situations, but he’s also certainly been in better as well. With Alfred piloting the Batwing from the safety of the Batcave, he’s got about four hours until it arrives, and he can be brought back to his own domain. Back to safety. He hesitates at the idea of calling for help from Clark. The man has his own priorities, and it’s been an incessantly long time since he’s had time alone with his family without the stress of hero work. 

However, some priorities overrule others. 

“Clark, help me,” he whispers, voice cracking and hoarse after hours of fighting and sustaining injuries. As he treks away from the arena where Ra’s and Bruce fought (some secluded spot in the middle of a dessert - Bruce would personally guess Ethiopia due to the landmarks surrounding him, but he has been wrong before and wouldn’t be surprised if he was at this moment as well) and with the fact that Ra’s has been defeated in mind and handed into the local authority, he pushes forward. Every step through sand dunes feels as if he’s walking through treacle, and he can’t help but struggle with his own body as he reaches the crest of a particularly large mountain of sand. In the distance, the sparkling lights of a large city twinkle at him with the promise of assistance, but he highly doubts he’ll get there before he collapses to dehydration or his injuries. He’s already exhausted the little water he had in his utility belt and the bandages in it have already been used to patch up wounds of the highest severity. The strange green magic that Ra’s used on him made the material of his trousers stick to his left leg painfully, so he had to cut the cotton-Kevlar material off.  

So, there he is: trudging in the middle of some desert in the middle of nowhere in the dead of night - dehydrated, injured, and miserable with his incoming support not available for another several hours and half of his costume in disrepair. He can’t help feeling a little irritable towards his comrades for this, even if he is completely aware that it isn’t their fault. He was the one who deemed it too dangerous for his children to come with him to combat the Demon’s Head and made the incredibly intelligent decision to go alone. Even Alfred had urged him to go with one of his more mature children, but his fear of losing them after what happened to Jason put the rational part of his brain on autopilot in favour of the worried parent in him to disagree with every alternative. He can just hope that either his family or Clark finds him before it’s too late. 

That’s the last thought he has before he collapses, face first, into the sand. 

— 

He’s in and out of consciousness for a long time. When he’s got half a mind to take in his surroundings, Bruce notices that he is travelling. Rapidly. When he blinks, he’s in a vehicle, then lying down on something, then surrounded by darkness. He hears voices too, but they’re often mixed and warped together until he can’t discern whose is whose. Eventually, the soft timbre of Alfred reaches him, followed by the worried voice of his eldest son. It’s then when he realises he’s back in the Batcave and safe, so he closes his eyes again and stays like that for a while; not particularly in the mood for waking up. 

When he properly regains consciousness, he’s met with a pounding headache and a sharp ache overwhelming his legs and chest. Bruce opens his eyes and is immediately blinded by the bright LED of a medical light glaring down on him. He squints into it and brings his arm up to cover his eyes with a groan, and the room, which he didn’t realise was occupied by others, suddenly went silent.  

“Bruce? You’re awake!” That was the voice of his third son. 

“It was about time, Father. How was Grandfather?” That was his youngest. 

“Stop pestering him! Let him get his bearings before you overwhelm him with questions.” His eldest daughter. 

“I’d appreciate it if you didn’t overwhelm me with questions at all. At least, not yet,” Bruce grumbles, attempting to sit up without triggering a massive headache and failing miserably. He slumps back on the hospital cot, closing his eyes. He feels a cool and damp fabric being placed on his forehead, realising that Alfred is busy doing his medical ministrations as he always does. 

“You gave us quite the scare, Master Bruce. I hope this acts as a lesson to not fight the League of Assassins without correct backup,” the butler states. Bruce sighs, the act causing pain to shoot through his ribcage. Ah, so he broke them.  

“I won, didn’t I?” he states, attempting humour. The joke falls flat in the now silent room and the man represses the urge to sigh a second time. 

“We all know that’s not the point here, Bruce.” His eldest son, Dick, steps forward and stands next to the cot where his father lies. “You gave Clark quite the scare.” 

That’s what gets Bruce to open his eyes. 

“He’s here?” 

“He’s upstairs in the Manor. He wanted to give you space.” 

He can’t suppress the sigh this time and it turns into a wince. 

“Damn it. Can you bring him down here? I want to apologise for keeping him from his family.” 

“Visiting hours are closed for a few hours,” Alfred states bluntly and shoots a poignant glare behind him at the several others in the room. They all look away, shuffling around awkwardly. “Unfortunately, your stubbornness is apparently hereditary.” He turns to face them all. “Children, Master Bruce is awake. You can come back later when he’s in a better state of mind and body.” As if on cue, Bruce groans in pain after a failed attempt to move his legs into a more comfortable position. 

“Right- yeah. Sorry, Alf. We’ll go.” Dick begins to turn away but stops himself halfway to the door. Once the others have left, he gives a meaningful look to his father.  

“Stop thinking you have to do everything alone, Bruce. You have friends. Act like it.” 

With that, he leaves, leaving the Dark Knight in the care of his butler and his own thoughts.

--

Will be posted on Ao3 later on :)

[devine-fem]

As someone who likes Damijon as both platonic and romantic…I don’t understand the obsession of certain antis bring up whole age gap thing when it comes to Damian and Jon. It’s getting really old and pissing me off at this point.

I can’t recall a fandom I’ve been in where antis kept bringing up an age gap between two characters.

Idk if I’m talking out of my ass but it sounds like as if antis think the fandom puts Damijon in sexual situations 24/7 when that’s not the case.

Jfc no one is forcing you to ship them if you don’t (it’s not even canon!) but don’t go around accusing the fandom as p*d*s just to make a point. ( I know in fandoms there some weirdos too but it doesn’t make up a whole)

Let the Damijon fandom enjoy whatever crumbles they are getting right now…because it’s really just crumbles at this point.

If those antis also consist of those who are our rival ships (they know who they are) like yall are getting canon content rn from DC if you’re upset with the quality of it speak with your wallet idk…???

Sorry for the rant it’s just for the most part Damijon fandom has been pretty chill (excluding Twitter that’s another can of worms) and I hate the accusations parts of the fandom love to make.

Yeah… people don’t talk about how Jon had to be 11 to Damian’s 13 before he left for space because they only read super sons, they never really look at any other source or think about their ages as more than that because tom taylor said out his mouth that they were 3 years apart when dissing the ship BUT he admits himself to not know their exact ages and that it could be a 2 year age gap.

So I just think of it as two years, and with two years I don’t really care because personally even in my youth I’ve been with people who are two years older with no issue because age alone doesn’t determine whether or not someone is taking advantage of you for obvious reasons. Age gaps are not tangible things, to some people what you consider weird is normal to someone else.

Then there’s the fact that neither Jon or Damian have birthdays. Damian was aged up for teen titans which people don’t seem to care about. Among other things like how Jon and Damian are the same age in most other universes… did you know that? Also, people like to say theres a maturity gap but forget that Damian was the immature one that picked fights. Plus, when characters grow up beside each other then it’s less ‘weird’ cause then they are expierencing similar traumas. It’s probably lots smaller then we think.

When I talk about them with a three year age gap then its probably platonic but sometimes romantic, two years then its sometimes platonic or romantic, one year, platonic or romantic and I stay between these because their age can slightly change their dynamic. It’s for fun, its exploring their platonic dynamic if it had elements of romance to it. Its interchangeable to me but for the most parts its two.

They are barbies that I play with at my own free will. They are not real people, they may imitate life but they do not infact replicate it.

So yeah… when they are young I only ever have really seen or interacted with media where J and D have not done more than maybe peck. Its just supposed to be cute and sweet.

Do people not understand the concept of the fact Jon and Damian should not be getting into a serious relationship while they are young or else it would go horribly wrong? Do they not understand that a lot of the ships appeal in the childhood friends TO lovers factor?

It kind of bothers me to be having to put the fact that I l hate Jonjay and like Daminika in my bio so people can get a feel for the type of person I am. And “rival” ships? there’s no rivalry, I don’t feel threatened by other peoples ships at all… especially if they’re canon… unless its like jonjay where the origin of the ship is inherently problematic, substanceless and built on character assassination… but we hate damijon and praise THAT? We say that damijon is worse than that? I’m sorry but jonjay to jon kent is jayroy to roy harper to me.

Twitter is very strange, very very strange people on that app to which this morning I had to uninstall because I KNEW that they would feel threatened by damijons today and hate profusely in response to it.

Although, you guys gotta put that age gap shit to bed…

Dami look 14 here to you? If Damijons are the ones who don’t read comics then how do we know that they are well in their 20s and 30s here. They are both consenting adults in main continuity that can do as they please here. You simply cannot say anything. No arguement can be supported now because now, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

There was no point in hate the age gap really in the first place since time was always gonna heal it anyway???

But part of me kind of understands hating it if you experience fandom through twitter which is not a fandom app at all. Damijon stans are annoying and gross on twitter, I get it but not everyone is inherently horrible for obvious reasons.

[dancingacrossthemilkyway]

cupping their cheeks and giving them a peck on the nose or lips - graveyard watch

It’s still a relatively new thing, whatever it is that is happening between them. Jon’s not stupid; he knows what’s going on, even if he doesn’t know if he’s ready to label it quite yet. The thing is…

It seems too convenient. Too good to be true. Jon doesn’t get nice things. No, Jon gets Leitners and burns, scars and worms and promotions that don’t make sense. Jon gets accused of murder, of manipulation, of having power that he doesn’t understand. Jon gets talked over and ignored and treated like garbage.

So how is he to believe that this man - this handsome, patient, laid-back man - has an actual interest in him?

“You’re thinking too much.” The voice is a baritone, speaking slowly but firmly as Oliver finishes his rounds with the plants decorating his flat. Jon furrows his brows and opens his mouth to protest, only to have Oliver raise an eyebrow and smirk at him. “You’re making the face again.”

“I- wha,” Jon sputters, scrubbing a hand over his face as Oliver chuckles and heads into the kitchen where the coffee is brewing. “I do not make a face.”

“You do. It looks something like this.” Oliver leans his hip against the counter and rests an elbow lazily on the old top as looks at Jon. He wrinkles his nose slightly and purses his lips, almost tilting them down, and scrunching his eyebrows just so to get a small crease between them. “It’s cute. I’d like it, if it didn’t usually mean you’re talking yourself out of something.”

“I, you - I’m not cute!” Another thing Jon doesn’t know quite how to accept is how casual Oliver is with compliments. They appear to be sincere ones, too, without any strings or expectations attached. Wrong, because Jon is hardly the cute type, but sincere nonetheless. 

“Yes, you are.” Oliver reaches into a cupboard to pull down two old mugs from the top shelf with an ease Jon envies. “But that’s not the point right now. What’re you thinking about?”

Jon immediately looks away. How does one admit they’re stuck struggling to believe that they’re worthy of someone’s attention? That the affection bestowed upon them makes them fearful that they’re somehow tricking someone into loving a version of them that doesn’t exist? He knows that it’s easy to tell he has poor self-esteem and even worse self-worth; Oliver had said as much when they’d first met in person. That should, in theory, make it easier to bring this up, shouldn’t it? 

But if he admits that he’s struggling, then he admits that he’s failing. Failing to be what Oliver needs him to be, failing to be a halfway decent partner in this relationship. And Oliver deserves so much more.

Warm hands cup Jon’s face suddenly, bringing him out of his mind to find Oliver crouching in front of him. “Hey,” Oliver says, nearly a whisper with how close they are. Concern is etched among the wrinkles of his face, affection laced in the words he speaks. “What’s wrong?”

Jon swallows. “What if…” he starts and god, he wants to duck his face to avoid seeing how Oliver reacts to him. He won’t. Oliver’s grasp is loose to allow him the freedom to do so, but he won’t. Even if he’s failing at every other aspect of this relationship, he will at least give Oliver this. “What if I’m not… good enough?”

Oliver’s eyes search his face for a long moment. “Good enough for?” he prompts after a second, even though Jon’s fairly certain he knows what Jon’s referring to.

Jon sighs, long and sad. “You.”

“Mmm.” Oliver rocks forward and places a soft kiss on Jon’s forehead, lingering long enough to ensure the skin continues to tingle after he pulls away. “It’s that kind of day, huh. Let me get the coffee and then why don’t we curl up under a blanket. Are there any documentaries you’d like to watch, or should I put on whatever catches my attention?”

Jon can’t explain it, can’t put into words why this reaction calms him more than if Oliver were to attempt to reassure him that he is good enough. He can’t put a lot of things into words, actually, about his turbulent emotions and how Oliver somehow manages to be a steady anchor through it. It doesn’t need to be verbalized, he supposes; that’s no what matters. Oliver reaches behind Jon to tug down the blanket he owns that is sinfully soft (one that Jon became obsessed with the first time he touched it) and drapes it over Jon’s shoulders. 

Clearing his throat, Jon pulls it tighter around himself. “A, uh. A documentary would be lovely.”

Oliver nods and hands him the remote. “Here. I’ll be right back out with drinks. Stay out of that head for me for a few minutes, okay?”

Jon chuckles. “Yeah. I’ll try.”

———

Prompt list

[northeasternwind]

Considering writing a short Frogwares Games/Canon (or more likely Granada since then I don't have to deal with Watson's marriage I'M SORRY MARY I JUST LIKE SIMPLICITY) crossover isekai thing where the wave at the end of The Awakened dumps frogwares!boys into a parallel dimension and now Canon Holmes and Watson have to sit here and watch going oh god. We're fathers now

Canon!Holmes: I think a trip to the Diogenes is in order here

Frogwares!Holmes: a trip to the what

Canon!Holmes: WHAT DO YOU MEAN A TRIP TO THE WHAT oh god it's worse than I thought

Poor Sherlock and Watson get to deal with their Cthulhu trauma by obtaining two middle-aged fathers. For literally zero reason I love the fanon that Holmes's father is the one who taught him to box, so he learns that Frogwares!Holmes can't box, immediately deduces half his tragic backstory, goes oh my god you poor child and then realizes holy shit I have an intellectual equal and I can teach him boxing.

Frogwares!Holmes is traumatized but maybe beating up his "older brother" will help. LMFAO.

My idea here is to posit that the fanon "eldest brother Sherrinford" does exist but died stillborn in Frogwares verse, causing the Holmes couple to wait a little longer between babies and making them more demonstrably affectionate toward the sons they did have. Canon Mycroft is as chill as he is because his parents were SUPER detached and he wasn't expected to inherit the estate, so Canon Holmes learns that Frogwares!Sherrinford and the Diogenes club don't exist and puts it all together like HEAD IN HANDS

(Meanwhile canon Watson can say FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T GIVE HIM ANY DRUGS HE DOESN'T CONSENT TO, IT'S HARD ENOUGH KEEPING HIM AWAY FROM THE ONES HE DOES even though I suspect Frogwares!Holmes has a rather different relation with medicine in general OOP)

I haven't even STARTED on Jon yet, lordt

[rainhadaenerys]

Daenerys Meta Masterpost Part 6c - ASOIAF

This is a continuation of my Daenerys Meta Masterpost Part 6 and Part 6b.

I’ve compiled more than 2000 metas about Daenerys, both about the books and the show, and I intend to constantly update this post with more metas. The metas listed here will be linked to their reblogs in my blog, (since many people tend to change their usernames, and I don’t want the links to stop working in this case). Of the metas linked here, the ones that I wrote are in bold text. It’s also important to note that the metas here reflect my own opinions about the characters, I don’t claim to be listing every meta that was ever written about Daenerys.

Tumblr has a limit of 250 links that can be put in a single post. Once you reach that limit, your links will no longer appear. Which is why I am making this continuation of my previous Masterpost, because Part 6 is very close to reaching this limit of links, since I constantly update it with new metas as I reblog them in this blog.

The topics of this part will be the same as part 6:

MAGIC AND PROPHECIES

DAENERYS AND FERTILITY

ENDGAME, SPECULATION AND STORY STRUCTURE

HOUSE TARGARYEN

DRAGONS

DOTHRAKI

WORLDBUILDING

Please check both partS 6, 6b and 6c if you’re looking for meta about any of these topics.

This is a list about the books, but there might be a few metas that mix books and show if I think they bring up interesting points about the books.

Link to the complete Masterpost: HERE

Last update: January 24 2025

MAGIC AND PROPHECIES

The unintentional start of the ritual of waking the dragons

Edit: Daenerys is Azor Ahai and Drogon is Lightbringer

Daenerys is magical

Evidence of Dany being the main focal point of Azor Ahai's prophecy, even if there are others that also take a part in it

Dany's vision of Rhaegar in the HOTU is not a perfect representation of what happened, but a sign from the author that she is Azor Ahai/TPTWP

Why the Others don't need to (and probably won't) be humanized

Theory : Targaryens having visions of Dany waking dragons and thinking it's about them

Dany knew exactly what she was doing when she woke the dragons

Comparative Mythologies of the Long Night: Part Two – Azor Ahai and The Red Sword

Edit: GEORGE R. R. MARTIN’S STATEMENTS AND HOUSE OF THE DRAGON INDICATING THAT DAENERYS TARGARYEN IS THE PROPHESIED HERO OF A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE

Dany's dragons wake 400 years after the Doom

"It seems I must be a warrior."

The fake and the real Lightbringer

Argument against the idea that Dany can't be Azor Ahai because "it wouldn't be feminist": (1) (2)

More arguments on why Dany is AA/PTWP

The Undying and the Others are not exactly the same, even though they have parallels

DAENERYS AND FERTILITY

ENDGAME, SPECULATION AND STORY STRUCTURE

Edit: Dany tropes - Rule of Three

"I decided I would not die." - speculation on Dany's ending

The difference between subverting tropes and subverting expectations

Arguments against the idea of Dany dying

Why Jon Connington or Cersei could end up burning King's Landing instead of Dany

HOUSE TARGARYEN

Dany's parallels and anti-parallels with Valyria

Dorne and the North are not anti-Targaryen

The impact the Greens had on the view of women and bastards

Dany and House Targaryen: survival against all odds

GRRM did not write House Targaryen to show how rotten they are and he doesn't believe any family is only good or bad

We don't need Dany to explicit say she is against the Targaryens of Old Valyria did for us to know that she is against slavery and against what they did

The Doctrine of Exceptionalism doesn't mean Targaryens are blood purists

The idea that the Targaryens didn't make alliances or adapt to Westerosi customs is false

Nymeria conquered Dorne just like Aegon conquered Westeros

Targaryens are not colonizers, unlike the First Men and the Andals

Targaryen's flaws are no different than other houses

Dany's ancestors wouldn't exist without her

About the idea that incest makes House Targaryen "worse" than other houses

It's not just House Targaryen that represents the "old way"

Targaryens are not colonizers

The words of House Targaryen: Fire and Blood, but take it positive

Why is there so much anti dragon sentiment in the ASOIAF fandom?

Dany is not meant to be the only good person in a "rotten family"

Dragon eating its own tail symbolism and House Targaryen

About the erroneous idea that "cycles of abuse" and "rot" only apply to House Targaryen

Why the fandom shouldn't attribute all failings of House Targaryen to 'rot' inherited from their Valyrian ancestors

The ways in which Dany is different from her Targaryen ancestors

The Targs are the best house for the Smallfolk

About the readings of Dany's character as both culmination and antithesis of House Targaryen

House Targaryen is not significantly different from other houses

About incest, abusive relationships and House Targaryen

DRAGONS

Dany's dragons act like the people they're named after

The mother of Dany's dragons was probably Dreamfyre

It is injustice done to the innocents that leads to the dying of the dragons, and now dragons fight against injustice

The magical healing power connected to the dragons

Dragons and the environment

About dragons being a nuclear deterrent

DOTHRAKI

Dothraki society being led by women of the dosh khaleen reflects horse behavior, and how this ties to Dany being the Stallion

WORLDBUILDING

Tokar parallels with the Roman toga

[atopvisenyashill]

🔥16, 24, 25 for the violence ask game

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

i mean the entire “dany will be the uncontested queen of westeros” boring bland been done a hundred times before ntm it’s not ~breaking the wheel~ she would essentially just be aegon the unlikely if he had dragons and we know that despite egg being a good goose at heart he wasn’t a particularly effective king! dany coming into her crown while everyone applauds does not engage with a single theme in this series. dany FAILING to get the crown? now that’s compelling!!!

for a slightly less “you talk that one to death” take, and probably a more cancelable one but i don’t think there has been any child on child bullying happening in this series. luke & jace think aemond is In On The Joke they have no idea that they’re hurting his feelings that much (which imo is clear when jace & aemond have that little missed moment at laena’s funeral! now that he knows aemond is bothered by the teasing bc jace, a bastard, is laughing at aemond, a true born targaryen, jace feels bad about it and aemond sees he feels bad about it and almost reaches for him!) and to me, that’s not bullying that’s children just not understanding boundaries yet. similarly, i don’t think sansa bullies arya; i think arya gives as good as she gets, and i also don’t think sansa is saying anything with malice. she makes those snide remarks about arya bc septa mordane does, and because sansa wants arya to be a “proper lady” so they can do proper lady stuff together. she’s very explicitly put out by arya running off with micah because she wanted to hang out!! arya and sansa both feel isolated at winterfell in their own ways bc they’re kids and a lot of kids feel like they don’t fit in - look at jon & theon too!

“what about aegon” what aegon does to aemond (and what aemond eventually does to aegon) is not “bullying” it’s way worse than that! bullying is like…when children see an “outsider” and isolate them with physical or verbal manipulation. what’s going on with those two is like out and out abusive family dynamics that’s not the same. “what about the driftmark brawl” i don’t know how to tell you that when an argument between children escalates to actual physical harm, it has left the realm of bullying and gone into “a fucking problem” 😭

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

objectively the most rancid is whenever anyone makes a single comparison involving arya & lyanna that isn’t comparing them to each other. sorry but “my favorite teenager is hotter than your favorite teenager” and “comparing these two practical toddlers to their parents is misogyny bc *fart noises*” is genuinely insane.

and for another less obvious take, i think there’s this weird discourse that pops up around kingsguard characters where people will just fully buy into the concepts of like, chivalry and courtly love being the ideal and say shit like “aemon is the best knight ever bc he died trying to save his evil brother” buddy if my lover OR brother died saving trump or even like, pritzker (who i genuinely like as a governor!) i would carve “died a loser” on their gravestone. why is it so virtuous to die for a bad man?? for a politician???? aegon was raping naerys practically NIGHTLY, let that bitch die!!!!!!! or the semi recent discourse about how arthur gerold and oswell were ~only protecting jon and lyanna~ or people unironically being like “jaime is a bad person for killing aerys” like how do you read affc and come away with this take.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

“bran/rhaenyra are boring” first of all if you got into the high fantasy series and are upset when characters are invested in the fantasy elements of their world, idk what to say but you played yourself. second of all mfers will say they only like the political story line but when rhaenyra talks about her birthright or bran uses magic to jack the throne suddenly it’s “we’ve already done this story before it’s boring”

[paper--machete]

idk if you did this before but ummm rank all qotsa albums including them crooked vultures

I'll do you one better! I'll include the desert sessions 11+12 cus imo it's too thoroughly produced to not include

10. lullabies to paralyze

no hate on lullabies but honestly the whole vibe of the record is just sooooo 2005. in my head has to be their worst song just because of how embarassing that chorus is and also there's just a lot of fluff, even the deep cuts on this album feel like throwaway tracks (which I would even say about my favorite songs on the album, tangled up in plaid and broken box). the whole album just feels like a radio-friendly attempt to prove they still had their edge after Nick was kicked out

favorite songs: tangled up in plaid, little sister, i never came, the blood is love, broken box

9. villains

villains gets too much hate. people always point to Mark Ronson for ruining the album but honestly I'm glad we live in the alternate timeline where qotsa made a pop album. the way you used to do is awesome (ESPECIALLY the live version), domesticated animals is awesome, un-reborn again is one of their best songs. hideaway has always sucked tho and I hate the ending of the evil has landed because it just sounds like they were trying to do 3s and 7s again for some reason (with the slide guitars and Josh going "way-ee-ay") but otherwise also one of their best songs. also I wanna mention that Jon Theodore is at his best on this album, you can really hear his background in prog shine through on certain songs

favorite songs: the way you used to do, domesticated animals, fortress, un-reborn again, the evil has landed

8. desert sessions 11+12

first and foremost noses in roses forever is one of the best songs jho has ever written. DS11/12 basically feels like josh decided he wanted to do his own Gorillaz style collaborative project thanks to the increased production values and honestly it just makes me want another desert sessions release just like it.... which contradicts the other thing I wanted to say which is that there's really no album that sounds like 11/12 out there. nowhere else will you hear a song like chic tweetz because any other album would’ve left it on the cutting room floor for being too stupid. i love it

also I wanna say that i think crucifire is for royal blood what ultralight beam was for chance the rapper lmao

favorite songs: noses in roses forever, chic tweetz, easier said than done

7. in times new roman

damn I'm surprised the recency bias isn't getting to me on this one lmao. ITNR has a lot of really good songs on it but put together into an album it really feels like they’re just treading old ground. (I was originally gonna write a review of it when it came out titled “new dog, old tricks”). despite this there’s a lot of great stuff, paper machete and emotion sickness are two of my fav qotsa songs and straight jacket fitting might be their best closer? idk. this would be higher if it didn’t just feel like a “more of the same” type album

favorite songs: paper machete, negative space, made to parade, emotion sickness

6. self-titled

this placement hurts so much because like a year and a half ago this wouldve been #2 😭 anyway i love the self titled so much because it sounds so different from the rest of their discography… you can hear alot of the leftover kyuss influence in the heavier songs and riff writing, plus what other album is gonna try some crazy shit like walkin on the sidewalks or hispanic impressions? (btw hispanic impressions is their most underrated song) also the expanded edition is better for having spiders and vinegaroons but worse for having droids

favorite songs: regular john, avon, how to handle a rope, hispanic impressions, you can’t quit me baby

5. songs for the deaf

i’ve always had beef with songs for the deaf…. i’ve always felt like the best songs on it are so good that they make the lesser songs seem worse in comparison. like another love song is great but when it’s sandwiched between god is in the radio and song for the deaf its like. well obviously this is one of the weaker songs on the album. anyway it’s still good, being the other nick-era qotsa album you can really hear the collaboration between the band’s all-star lineup across the whole thing

favorite songs: hanging tree, go with the flow, god is in the radio, song for the deaf, mosquito song

4. them crooked vultures 

TCV is just a really, really solid album. the sequencing is great, the songs are all great, the musicians are all at their A game, ESPECIALLY josh as it’s not an unpopular opinion to say this album is where he really started tapping into his skills as a vocalist. while i consider TCV to be the honorary bonus qotsa album, i feel like it also manages to stand on its own thanks to the creative contributions of dave grohl and john paul jones.

favorite songs: mind eraser no chaser, dead end friends, bandoliers, warsaw, spinning in daffodils

3.5. over the years and through the woods

maybe I'm biased cus qotsa brainworms but the dvd of this is the best concert film/album I've ever heard. there's a perfect balance between songs being played as they are on the record and songs having things tweaked or even reworked entirely, which is something i’m picky about when it comes to concerts (i saw jack white two years ago and he changed waaaaay too many songs :P) also there’s a lot of neat little bonus things in the set, like an early version of make it wit chu, another desert sessions track (covered in punk’s blood) and of course the live performance of fun machine which is a top 3 song for them and always will be

favorite songs: feel good hit of the summer, avon, little sister, you can’t quit me baby, the fun machine took a shit and died

3. rated R

rated R is a perfect album! i think its greatest strength is its sequencing tbh, it succeeds at both giving the impression of it being a concept album (while not necessarily conforming to the concept) as well as having a super diverse tracklist where no two songs sound alike. also characteristic of nick-era qotsa, i love how rated R isn’t afraid to have short songs or long songs, though unlike on songs for the deaf the short/long songs here feel like they don’t sacrifice length for substance relative to other songs. 

favorite songs: feel good hit of the summer, leg of lamb, auto pilot, better living through chemistry, i think i lost my headache

2. era vulgaris

there is no album that sounds like era vulgaris. why does misfit love sound like that? why does battery acid sound like that? WHY DOES I’M DESIGNER SOUND LIKE THAT??? it’s so fucking weird and rich with ideas, there isn’t a single moment on era vulgaris where the band isn’t trying something new. even my least favorite songs on here have something new and unique to offer while also being the most fucked up little beast creature thing youve ever heard.

favorite songs: turnin on the screw, i’m designer, into the hollow, 3’s and 7’s, run pig run

1. ...like clockwork

i’m an artsy kid, i like artsy albums, and i love like clockwork for how mature it is. every song feels like a statement, an emotion concentrated into a 4-minute masterpiece. while the lows on here are lower for me than on other albums, they still make important contributions to the album experience as a whole (not to mention the highs soar, i appear missing and fairweather friends are top 5 material for them. I appear missing might even be top 1 tbh.) i’m out of things to say so uhhh yeah like clockwork is my favorite :)

favorite songs: i sat by the ocean, the vampyre of time and memory, fairweather friends, i appear missing

[f1-disaster-bi]

Now I’m just having more Party au thoughts 🙈

How would Party au Lando handle this F1 season? All the highs and the lows and the expectations and pressure of finally having a good car. Finally winning in Miami and the celebrations afterwards. The contact with Max in Austria and anger afterwards followed by the fear of losing that friendship. The disappointment of losing Silverstone when he was so close and blaming himself. Daniel’s season not being great and the threat of him not being on the grid anymore and being close every weekend to support Lando…

Anon, you and me both right now! I actually just a message to Birb with a whole idea for a little Party au drabble/prompt based on this past weekend.....

I may also be thinking about Koa meeting Leo and Roscoe 👀

This season would definetly be stressful for both Lando and Daniel in different ways.

Lando might have the pressure of his first win off his shoulders but he also now has the pressure of being in a top car and being able to fight for wins. People have turned from talking about him having no wins to fixating on every little mistake, talking about him as if he will never win again, a one hit wonder, and Lando, at first, adjusts to the pressure saying he has already proven himself. He does go back to having a meeting every two weeks with his therapist instead of the monthly meeting that they've dropped down to, and that helps.

It's the triple header that has him really struggling because he catches that cough that won't go away. He's sick and he's tired. He's trying to be the partner Daniel needs and encouraging Daniel to keep up with his own therapist, and being a comfort to him but by the end of Austria Lando is struggling. A lot of what he said in the media came from him worrying about Max and their friendship but also Max's sobriety and his own because for the first time in about a year, Lando want's to drink. He wants to leave the paddock and go buy a bottle of vodka and sit in the dark and drink and that scares him so he's just a bit of a wreck, Luckily, he flies home with Alex and Daniel, and they help distract him and Lando goes straight to a meeting the next day and meets up with his sponsor and does what he can to stop a relapse, and he tells Daniel that he scared himself.

Silverstone is the nail in the coffin and Lando is just really struggling but he isn't hiding it. He's honest with his friends and Daniel, with his sponsor and therapist, with Jon. He doesn't try to go it alone and that is what saves him from a possible relapse.

Daniel is also struggling throughout all this with negative thoughts and the media speaking shit about him. He knows he might lose his seat. He knows the car isn't the best and that he's struggling to prove being on the grid when RB have drivers waiting in the wings to be called up so he's trying to fight for his seat and to stay on the grid. Mentally, it's draining, and it only gets worse when he sees Lando going into the triple header looking like he's struggling because he's always worried about Lando in the same way Lando worries about Daniel.

Before that, he was able to be there to support Daniel and his worries about his season, but after the triple header both of them are a little raw and know they need to be there for each other without hurting themselves in the process. Luckily, they have a great couples therapist that they see every so often to help them navigate things like this so they know how to support each other without sacrificing their own needs. They spend a lot of time just comforting each other physically rather than verbally. Lots of soft touches and hugs, lots of cuddles and sweet kisses, hands on shoulder/thighs/backs, just being present for the other to lean on. They do talk as well but they find the physical comfort helps them both.

They spend most of the break between Silverstone and Hungary just hiding away together. Just taking time to heal, to get their heads right and reconnect with each other and disconect with the world for a bit until they're both feeling better.

It's still a struggle, but they have each other's backs and they work together to make sure they're both okay

[findafight]

i like stonathan and fics where they're friends but i also feel like the cheating goes from bad to worse in those fics. like if they become friends after it's not quite so bad but then i do feel like there's more of an argument for jonathan having a moral/good friend obligation to tell steve what actually happened. but in fics where they're friends pre s2 it's honestly kind of evil of jonathan to do that then just let nancy lie and never say anything himself. i've seen both cases in fics and it always really bothers me.

ya like. i sort of see it as, if they're friends/interact friendly, maybe Jonathan thinks Nancy told Steve? It's not the best start to a relationship, and maybe they just don't talk about it really (they seem to avoid their issues together) So I see Jonathan, if they were friends, being super awkward about it and avoiding Steve(who wants to be around their girlfriend's ex that she cheated on with you?), but not realizing Nancy hadn't told Steve what happened. so that's how it slips out, if Jon talks to Steve after to apologize? and it causes more issues between the three of them and probably causes issues between Jonathan and Nancy too.

but if they are friends/friendly and Jonathan knows Nancy didn't confess.... gross and nasty and bad and on the verge of unforgivable for Steve. It's Nancy's responsibility but you're right there's some kind of obligation/morality in either encouraging her to tell Steve or doing it for her. Because if they were to try to form platonic relationships with Steve, the betrayal would be that much worse if he found out later.

Stonathan AND Stancy either romantic or platonic both require Steve to know what happened. Idk I think it'd fuck Steve up if he were to become Jon's friend post S2 only to find out later Nancy cheated with him. There's be a lot of confusing emotions and betrayal.

At this point in canon no one has told him and no one seems to feel at all guilty about it (because canon doesn't believe Steve was cheated on, even though getting together with someone less than two days after breaking up with your almost year long partner is still pretty hurtful). Nancy and Jonathan seemingly sometimes make fun of Steve behind his back (something I've only really done with friends exes who we don't see anymore, not someone who you still see pretty regularly. Nancy still at the very least sees around town but possibly more with him giving Dustin/max rides?) that scene with them at hop's cabin where Nancy says Steve has grown up doesn't seem like it's 'someome we both know does stuff that annoys us but it is kinda funny' complaining and more 'lets laugh about your stupid ex we don't like' (which is fine to do, just. Maybe I wouldn't do it about a guy who saved my and my sibling's lives separately at least twice that I'd see because he's still friends with my sibling's friends...) It's not like STEVE was the one that broke NANCY'S heart.

At this point I don't think the monster hunting trio will be able to have a good friendship, just because it would be too lopsided with Nancy and Jon not respecting Steve, Steve and Nancy having too much history, and Steve and Jon not liking each other.

[rise-my-angel]

The thing with R/L shippers and their annoying push back when anyone brings up the super dark undertones of that relationship is that they have convinced themselves the show depiction of R/L is more or less what will happen in the books/is GRRM's intent. Which is hilarious because the people who ship R/L are almost always Dany/targ stans who think Dany breaking bad, being the final villain, and Jon/the Starks being antagonistic to her and taking her down was complete Benioff and Weiss fanfic. Which...lmao...I have a bridge to sell them.

In general, I've noticed this with the remaining book fandom, there is very much an undertone in their 'theories' and 'speculations' of 'everything I liked in the last four seasons of GOT totally came from GRRM and will totally happen in the books, and everything I didn't like was total fanfic, not Martin's intention at all, and will not happen.' Which, once again lmaooo and good luck with that!

Side note, the show depiction of R/L was hilarious. The writers had to magic away Rhaegar's marriage in one of the dumbest plot points on that show, and then attempted to magic away Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon's existence/deaths. They also had to magic away Rickard and Brandon's existence/deaths. Gave zero explanation as to why and how and what happened between R/L. The writers really made R and L into two sociopaths who they wanted viewers to romanticize, but only the opposite ended up happening. The absolute dragging they received from the fandom was INSANE lmao.

Anyway, I think the lack of any development of R and L by the writers to the point where Jon didn't even state how he felt about their relationship might indicate that the book version Benioff and Weiss were told was problematic and they just didn't want to open up that can of worms. But instead their writing choices made R and L even more hated and worse than I think GRRM intended. Just the most hilarious writing choices.

The fact that where the first substantial introduction to the nuances of this plot was scrapped entirely tells me that Benioff and Weiss had no idea what kind of character they wanted Rhaegar to be. We don't truly see anything of the Tower of Joy until late in season 6 in some half baked Bran Greensight vision. But if they did it properly, that Tower of Joy scene should have been all the way in season 1.

Open episode 6 of season 1 with the Tower of Joy flashback as it is depicted in the books. Then slowly transition into Ned waking up in bed after his fight in the street with Jaime Lannister. That is how early in the books the seeds of that mystery were planted, but they never even begun to tackle it until the end of season 6.

Which is bizarre, beacuse they actually shot themselves in the foot already. Show Robert is so much more nuanced of a character in his book counterpart. The way he talks about Rhaegar and the way he lements a genuine heartache over Lyanna is so much more dynamic then what we got from book Robert.

What I could critizise from the books, should have been fixed in the show. They proved they could. They turned what is a pretty black and white unlikeable character in Robert to someone who is as problematic as he is tragic. He is so much more human and that should have been the perfect set up happening at the same time Ned is beginning to experience his traumatic dreams and flashbacks about Lyannas death.

That despite Roberts heartbreak, there is something so much darker then Ned is letting on that is now spiralling him into having consistent trauma reactions over it.

If this were a love story, why would Ned twenty years later be so utterly haunted by it in a way he had long since pushed down?

Also the annulment is...I don't have words for how impossible it is.

I'd literally have to make a whole separate post to explain why that annulment subplot literally could never have happened.

And like, Jon had no reaction because they did not care about using it properly. The revelation of who Jons mother is has always been about Jons personal journey with identity, and making sense the parts of his father he never understood and the sacrifices he made to protect him. It's supposed to be about Jon realizing he was never the bastard who accidentally ruined his fathers honour. It's about Jon realizing he had a mother who loved him and watched over him in their home his entire life, and that Ned Stark chose Jon to be his son all on his own.

It's about Jon learning his mother died loving him feircly begging to keep him safe, and that Jon wasn't Neds son by accident. He was Neds son by choice out of love.

But they only used it to fuel half baked drama about the Iron Throne because at that point all Jon was there to do, was act as an accesory on Danys arm. He was no longer his own character by then so of course he has no reaction. He wasn't told because it was meant to impact him. Jons secret was revealed soley to add drama to Dany's narrative.

R+L=J was never meant to be about Jon's Targaryean side. It was meant to be about Jon learning he had a mother who died protecting him, and that Ned chose to ruin his own reputation because he decided to raise and love Jon as his own.

It was supposed to be about Jon learning who his mother is, why she isn't here, and how that heals all of the hurt left behind that Jon didn't understand about Ned.

It was never supposed to be about Rhaegar or the Targaryeans.

But I mean the second I saw they aged Lyanna up to the the oldest in the show I checked out. I knew they did that beczuse they couldn't portray a 14-15 year old girl marrying a 25+ year old man without the obvious implciations of at the very least, grooming a minor.

They knew this wasn't a romance, but that is too hard of a story to tell, a forbidden romance is so much easier. It was done only out of convience. They had to do something about that mystery, and so they took the easiest route and only ever mentioned it when it pertianed to adding drama to Dany's personal narrative.

[ollieofthebeholder]

And If Thou Wilt, Forget: a TMA fanfic

Read from the beginning on Tumblr || AO3 || My Website

Chapter 37: Who has redeemed and not abhorred

“—one more time, I’m going to rip his intestines out and strangle him with them.”

It probably wasn’t a serious threat. As small and scrawny as Jon was, Sasha was even smaller, and she kept her nails extremely short and smooth, so she likely wouldn’t have what it took to scratch him enough to bleed, let alone do any serious damage. Still, the combination of words with the tone she said them in touched off the hair trigger on Tim’s increasingly irritating urge to protect Jon, and he bristled instinctively as he jerked his head around to find her.

As usual, she was not dressed for the weather; she must be part polar bear, or else she was just that stubborn. Her only concession to the near freezing temperatures was to switch out her sandals for penny loafers and throw a shawl over her shoulders. The bright red spots on her cheeks were probably from anger and not cold or fever, though. Martin, who was walking with her, was much more sensibly dressed in the cornflower blue jumper he’d taken to wearing more often in the last month and a pair of scuffed but sturdy Doc Martens he’d managed to score at a swap meet because his feet were smaller than most men’s and there hadn’t been much competition for them. His expression was somewhere between frustration and anxiety, which was more or less his default expression when thinking about Jon these days. The way his hands were jammed in his pockets told Tim that, whatever Sasha was saying, he didn’t want to agree with it, but he did.

“Look,” he said, obviously trying to sound reasonable, “he’s—i-it’s been hard on him, you know that, he—”

“It’s been months, Martin. Whatever…whatever trauma it is he’s trying to work through”—oh, the sarcasm she put on those two words—“it doesn’t give him the right to do what he’s been doing. You know I’m right. Didn’t Elias tell you the same thing?”

“What?” Tim’s tongue freed itself at that and flung out the word much more sharply than he meant to.

Sasha and Martin both looked up at him at that, Martin flinching backwards and Sasha with an expression that indicated she was thankful to have an ally in whatever it was. It was Martin who spoke, though. “It’s Jon. He’s…” His shoulders slumped, and he looked suddenly exhausted. “He’s getting worse, Tim. I, I mean, I think he’s as healed as he’s ever going to be physically, but…”

“He’s ridiculously paranoid,” Sasha said, gesticulating wildly. “I caught him going through my desk a couple weeks ago. And he lied about it, but I know he’s been following me, too. You weren’t here last week when he went after Martin, but—”

“Not like that,” Martin cut in swiftly. “Not—I, I mean, he didn’t attack me or anything, I…”

“Martin,” Sasha and Tim said in unison.

Martin, if anything, slumped even further. “He accused me of killing Gertrude.”

“He accused you?” Tim exclaimed. If he was trying to throw suspicion off of himself, Jon had picked the worst possible candidate for that. “Why, for God’s sake?”

“He found a letter…well, he found a statement. Remember Trevor Herbert, the vampire hunter? I told Jon he died after he gave his statement, but apparently there was more than the one he found, and, and maybe he didn’t actually die? I dunno.” Martin rubbed at his face for a moment. “But then he said he’d found a letter I wrote to my mum and…”

Tim sighed and shook his head. “Okay. So he’s paranoid. I get that. He was stalking me, too. What was that about Elias? Was he asking you about Jon?”

Martin winced. “I, I went to talk to him.”

“Martin!”

“I know! I know, it’s…I don’t want him to get fired or anything. But he’s not listening to us, Tim. Somebody’s got to do something.”

“Maybe he should get fired,” Sasha said, not quite under her breath. “If he’s going to keep going on like this.”

Tim ignored her. That could easily be spite on her part; despite her claims, and despite how long it had been, he didn’t think she was actually resigned to not having got the Archivist position. He also wouldn’t put it past her to knife him in order to get it. Martin, on the other hand, was genuine—and genuinely miserable about it. He wanted to help Jon. He’d just chosen the worst possible way of going about it.

Clearly it was going to be one of those days.

Focusing on Martin, Tim tried to keep his tone neutral. “What did you say to Elias?”

Martin looked miserable. “I just told him what’s been going on. And that maybe we should…I dunno, do something about it.”

“I talked to him, too,” Sasha interjected. “He agreed with me that Jon’s behavior is out of control and it needs to stop. He’s been doing it to you, too—don’t you agree?”

Tim ground his teeth. “Maybe, but—”

“Ah, Tim. May I have a word with you, please?”

Tim turned to see Elias standing a few feet away, hands folded in front of him and an expression of infinite patience on his insufferable face. He inclined his head towards a door to his left, which led to the small meeting room that got used for department head meetings rather than the more formal room to impress donors and trustees. “We needn’t go up to my office, we can just step in here.”

Since telling Elias where he could shove it would necessitate removing both his head and the stick already lodged in there, and saying that he would sooner chew off both hands at the wrists and wear them as earrings than lodge a formal complaint about Jon’s behavior with the head of the Institute would send Martin into a worse anxiety spiral than he was already in, Tim flashed Elias a huge, completely insincere grin and stepped into the meeting room as requested.

He waited until Elias actually came into the room and indicated that he should do so before he took a seat. The table was a long one that could easily seat a dozen people, set so that whoever was at the head of the table could see anyone entering; Tim, rather deliberately, selected a seat along one of the longer sides and pushed back from the table a bit, just to see what Elias would do.

Rather than sit at the head of the table with his hands folded formally on its top, Elias actually chose to sit in the chair next to Tim’s, which he also pushed back from the table. He propped one leg across the other knee, rested his elbows on the arms of the chair, and steepled his fingers. It was the most relaxed posture Tim had ever seen the man adopt, including when he’d come to Jon’s birthday surprise and very pointedly sung Happy birthday, dear Archivist directly in Tim’s ear—an open, casual, this is just an informal chat sort of posture.

Tim distrusted it instantly.

“I’m certain your colleagues have spoken to you about Jon’s behavior,” he said in an even, reasonable tone. “The paranoia, the constant suspicion of the three of you, the accusations, the surveillance, the…clandestine recording. Certainly I doubt Martin would have brought it to my attention except as a last resort, although, perhaps, I should have noticed sooner.”

“How?” Tim said pointedly. Not that he expected an honest answer out of him. “We’re in the basement. None of us come in the front door if we can help it. Nobody from up here comes down, and there’s no CCTV coverage in the Archives. I know you say nothing escapes your notice, but how exactly were you meant to notice Jon’s behavior if nobody came to complain?”

Elias gazed at him steadily. “Yes. Why have none of you come to me, by the way? If the situation is truly becoming…”

“Untenable?” Tim supplied, echoing Elias’s words from the discussion about his own behavior. He clenched his fist to keep from visibly working at the ring on his finger and stared Elias down, pressing against his mental barriers to keep them upright. “If you’re asking if I told them not to come to you, then no. We haven’t talked about it like that. Would I have encouraged them to talk to you? Absolutely not. If they’d told me they were planning to, I’d probably have tried to talk them out of it, because I am not sure anything you can do will help matters.”

“I do have the CCTV footage from the day of the murder,” Elias said thoughtfully. “The presumed day of the murder, anyway.”

That right there? That was bait. Elias definitely wanted Tim to ask about the footage, to hook him in and make him enter into whatever bullshit game he was playing. Tim crossed his arms over his chest. “You’re asking why I didn’t come to you about the way Jon was behaving towards Sasha and Martin? It’s because I was handling it. Or I thought I was. I didn’t know how bad it was affecting them because Martin was trying not to get him in trouble and Sasha was waiting for him to push things too far to walk back before she said anything, which tells me you spoke to her first.”

Elias’s eyebrows lifted, just slightly, and Tim immediately threw up a few extra wards to keep him from probing deeper. After a moment’s pause, Elias continued in the same reasonable tone. “All right. Why did you not come to me about the way he is behaving towards you? I presume there have been…incidents. Martin mentioned seeing pictures of your house on Jon’s desk.”

“Yeah, he was following me a couple weeks ago,” Tim said with a shrug. “Badly, might I add. I took care of it. And it didn’t happen on Institute property or company time, so really, it was none of your business.”

“Did you take care of it?” Elias asked pointedly. ���Or do you just believe that whatever you said to Jon did the trick?”

“I haven’t seen him since I called him out, which means he’s either leaving me alone or he’s learned how to stalk people less conspicuously, so yeah, I’d say it did the trick,” Tim shot back.

“Or he’s simply decided you’re none of his concern.” Elias paused. “Yet.”

That was also bait, but it was bait Tim had to grind his teeth very hard to avoid chomping at. He knew damn well what Elias was implying, or trying to imply, in such a way that if Tim tried to use his words as justification for whatever he did he could plausibly deny he’d said anything of the sort. With anyone else it might have been something of the “you’re not important enough to matter to him in the grand scheme of things” variety, which could spur an impulsive hothead into action, but Tim heard the underlying concern loud and clear: Jon, if Jon had been the one to murder Gertrude Robinson, might be focusing on Martin and Sasha as his next victims to begin with. Tim might be too much for him to handle…yet. The subtle threat made him bristle a little, and he had to remind himself to settle down, to not jump down Elias’s throat. To not let him know how close he’d come to striking a nerve.

“Or,” he said instead, “you made a shitty choice for the replacement Archivist, and the combination of duties and responsibilities and…obligations…that comes with that position is eating away at his mind and slowly driving him insane.”

Elias’s expression never changed, but Tim knew the remark had struck home. Not the part where he was critical of Elias—Elias expected that, it would be suspicious if Tim wasn’t insolent and borderline subordinate at this point—but the part where he suggested that Jon’s mind wasn’t up to hosting the Archivist. There were dozens, possibly hundreds, of statements in the Archives from people who’d got too close or too deep too quickly and ended up losing their sanity, and ultimately their lives. Depending on how far and how fast Jon went down that route, it could be a disaster for just him, or for the entire staff.

Luckily, at least luckily for Tim, that wasn’t what was happening. Jon’s behavior came from him, not from the Archivist, and a big part of Tim’s job was keeping Jon from biting off more than he could swallow. Hell, he hadn’t even started compelling people properly. He was a lot more resilient than people, even Martin, gave him credit for. But Elias didn’t know that for certain and Tim had just introduced a healthy bit of doubt into his current world view. Whatever was going on, he hadn’t picked Jon out of desperation; he needed him, specifically. Tim didn’t know why and wasn’t going to ask, but he realized, as he waited for Elias to respond with a raised eyebrow and an insouciant posture, that he’d just bought them all a little time.

“I had intended to have a…disciplinary meeting with Jon,” Elias finally said slowly. “Similar to the one I had with you a few weeks back. But I think, in light of your…observations, perhaps it’s best if we do something a bit more informal.”

“We?” Tim repeated.

“How do you think Jon would respond to an intervention?”

Badly, was the answer. Exactly how badly would depend on how the intervention was staged, how they phrased it, what time of day they went for it, and whether or not Elias or Sasha or both goaded Martin into saying what he was actually thinking instead of being diplomatic. It didn’t take an expert to know that Martin’s opinion of him was the one Jon was most dependent on and keenest not to lose. And while Tim was…admittedly less certain than he previously had been that Jon had been the one to murder Gertrude, that was by no means certain, and if he had there was every risk he would take that as a sign to eliminate those who opposed him.

On the other hand, maybe they’d get lucky and he’d go for Elias first.

“Best get it over with now,” he said, putting his hands on his knees and making like he was going to stand. “He doesn’t usually go out for lunch, but maybe if we convince him he’s being an idiot first he’ll actually eat something.”

Elias actually looked momentarily startled at that, like he hadn’t expected Tim to actually agree, or maybe like he’d expected to have a little bit of time before they actually did it. Nevertheless, he rose to his feet. “An excellent point. Let’s see if Martin and Sasha are still outside the room.”

“They are. They think you’re going to fire me. Or at least Martin does.” Tim rose, too. “But we both know better, don’t we…sir?”

Elias stared at Tim for perhaps half a second longer than was strictly necessary. “Quite.”

At this point, Tim wasn’t even surprised to see that he was right. Martin and Sasha were indeed hovering a few feet away, one anxious and the other impatient, and both straightened when they Tim and Elias emerge. Tim ignored Elias, walked over to them, and clapped both on the shoulders. “It’s okay. We’re going to stage an intervention.”

Martin visibly relaxed, which told Tim he’d been right—he was genuinely afraid, especially after Tim had called him out for going to Elias, that Jon was going to be fired and it would somehow be his fault. Sasha, too, seemed to relax a little, probably because she took the it’s okay to be for them, not for Jon. Either way, they fell into step willingly behind Tim, who graciously allowed Elias to go first down the steps.

He only gave a tiny, fleeting thought to pushing him down them, which could probably be considered progress.

The door to the Archivist’s office, unsurprisingly, was shut. Elias raised his hand as he approached it, clearly preparing to knock, but Tim ducked under it and grabbed the knob. Jon’s paranoia about being discovered doing…whatever he was doing was one thing, but he genuinely hated it when people knocked on his door—especially twice—and the last thing they needed to do was set him on edge right from the get-go, even though something told him that had been exactly Elias’s intention for whatever fucking reason. He opened the door stepped into the office, and bowed theatrically, sweeping one arm forward in the most ostensible, dramatic fashion he could.

“Yes, thank you, Tim.” Elias sighed and strode into the office, Martin and Sasha in his wake. “Jon. We need to talk.”

Jon squared his shoulders almost defensively. As Tim shut the door, he reached over for the tape recorder and, without breaking eye contact with Elias, pressed the RECORD button.

“You don’t mind if I record this, I trust?” he said, a slight edge to his voice.

“Well, to be honest—” Elias began.

“That’s kind of one of the things we wanted to talk about,” Tim interrupted smoothly. When Jon’s eyes flicked over towards him, he quickly rolled his pointer finger over a couple of times in what he hoped would be interpreted as a keep going sort of gesture. Elias almost certainly wanted him to shut it off, and yeah, it was probably bothering Martin and Sasha—especially Sasha, for some reason—to have their every interaction recorded, but eventually they were going to start turning themselves on for Jon automatically the way they sometimes had for Gertrude, and sometimes did for Tim, which he hadn’t mentioned to anyone. One way or another, this was probably going on record, and it would make Jon feel better if it was voluntary for now, at least on his part.

“This is an intervention,” Martin said, in as gentle a voice as he could.

Not gentle enough. Jon rose to his feet, eyes blazing. “Excuse me.”

“If you’d rather this was an official disciplinary hearing, Jon, we can arrange it,” Elias said pointedly.

Jon looked momentarily like a scolded child, then seemed to visibly force himself to calm. “Fine. Say your piece.”

Martin licked his lips and glanced at Tim, then Elias, but Sasha beat him to the punch, her voice dripping with sincerity. Tim didn’t believe it for a second. “We care about you, Jon. And you’ve been rather erratic since the Prentiss incident.”

“And we’d, we’d really like…” Martin began, then stuttered, obviously not sure where he was going with it.

“To not have to fire you,” Elias put in.

The look of fear that flashed through Martin’s eyes made Tim want to punch Elias for that, but he recovered quickly and turned back to Jon. “To make sure you’re okay,” he said, emphatically.

“Look, I understand that I’ve been a bit distant lately,” Jon began.

Oh. Oh, no, that wasn’t going to work. Either Jon actually had no idea of what they all knew, or was hoping they wouldn’t say anything. Tim spoke up, pointedly. “You were watching my house.”

“You followed me on my lunch break, and searched my desk,” Sasha pointed out.

So she had known that; Gerry would be interested to know, Tim thought as Martin finally blurted, “You said I was lying about a murder!”

From the suddenly startled look on Jon’s face, Tim realized he was right—he hadn’t actually realized they all knew that. Or at least hadn’t realized they’d talked about it. “I, uh, uh, that is to say—” he stammered.

“You think we killed Gertrude,” Sasha broke in.

Martin genuinely flinched at that, and Tim put a supportive hand at his back as Jon sputtered, “No. It’s…I…” He swallowed, and then suddenly his chin came up in a determined, belligerent defiance. “Maybe. Maybe you did. I don’t know.”

Either Sasha had just given Jon a brilliant idea, or he really did believe that, and Tim genuinely wasn’t sure which. Elias shook his head, almost sadly. “Jon, this is absurd. This goes far beyond an unhealthy work environment. I'll admit it's partly my fault for letting it get this bad. I, I should have stepped in earlier.”

Jon puffed up slightly, and Tim decided, no. No, this was where he needed to step in, he needed to stop this now or someone—either Jon or Martin or both—was going to get hurt. “What’s your evidence? Or are you just going on gut feelings?” He gestured at Sasha, Martin, and himself. “You’ve done your research. What are the red flags? You can’t build a case on maybes.”

“It’s not right,” Martin insisted.

Jon’s eyes snapped to Martin, and there was a flicker of something in them that told Tim he badly wanted to agree, but couldn’t let himself. “We’ve gone a long way beyond right or wrong, Martin. There are monsters out there and I don’t know who or where they are or if any of you…” His hand went, almost unconsciously, to his upper arm, where the stab wound he’d refused to explain was giving him yet another scar. “If you want me to trust you, then I’m sorry, but I need evidence.”

Elias sighed heavily and handed Jon what he’d been holding. Not, Tim realized, a folder. A DVD case. “Here.”

“And this is?” Jon asked, but he took it.

“A copy of all the CCTV footage from the week Gertrude disappeared,” Elias replied. “The police finally finished cleaning it up and examining it, and returned a copy.”

Jon gave Elias a suspicious look. “There aren’t any cameras in the Archives.”

“But there are everywhere else, including all of the entrances into the Archives and across all the feeds,” Elias pointed out. “It provides a remarkably detailed account of all of our movements over that week, even yours.”

“And you think this gives everyone an alibi?” Jon demanded.

“The police certainly do. Everyone who was here, at any rate. But feel free to check it yourself.”

Jon pursed his lips and narrowed his eyes, but all he said was, “Thank you. I will.”

Sasha stuck her hands on her hips. “And let’s have no more of this paranoia.”

Tim was pretty sure he was the only one that noticed the recorder shut itself off before Jon reached for it.

He followed the others out of Jon’s office, went over to his desk, and unlocked the top drawer—locking it was unnecessary, the same key worked on all the desks and honestly you could jar it loose with a good hefty shove of your hip, but he did it so nobody would suspect he kept the really important secret stuff he didn’t want anyone to know about in his bag—then rummaged around until he found what he was looking for. Ignoring Martin and Sasha, and not even caring if Elias was still there or not, he stalked back into the Archivist’s office and tossed a stack of papers on to Jon’s desk. “Here.”

Jon, who had been examining the DVD case, started and looked up at Tim, his expression somewhere between annoyance and suspicion. “What is this?”

“Receipts. Hotels, plane tickets, train tickets, round trip ferry ticket, meals and the occasional purchase receipt. Everything I expensed back to the Institute.” Tim cocked his head at Jon and indicated the DVD. “I won’t be on that recording. I told you a while ago, I was away when she was killed, on official Archive business. But, here, you can track my movements anyway. Maybe make a few phone calls, although I can’t tell you how many people I talked to will even remember me. I was trying to be careful.”

He’d either just made things better or made things a hell of a lot worse, he thought as he headed back into the Archives proper to try and get some more work done. Either way, it was done. The die was cast; let the chips fall where they may. Or as that old American television show had put it, the avalanche had begun—it was too late for the pebbles to vote. He was just going to have to keep his head down, keep doing his job, and hope he’d done the right thing.

It was all he could do for the moment.

[agentrouka-blog]

My favourite thing when anons want to stir trouble is that like, inevitably they have consistent misspelling habits which mean you know exactly who it is sending repeat asks. So unself-aware.

Anyway, I do think there is a balanced path between the text and what the author says. GRRM's comments about Sansa are about as light as they could come. I love when people want to ungenerously frame the debate as if she's tantamount to Tyrian or Daenerys, come on. Girl took a steak knife to see a drunken knight in the godswood. The most harm she's going to inflict is driving Jon crazy with the incest. I'm trying to be lighthearted here.

Anyway, Rouka, what's your opinion on author vs. text? How much is too much, relying on the former? On the other hand, with the Daenerys is a tragic hero fandom, there's a lot of outright twisting of the text. Does relying on the author's comments provide some clarity or just make the conversation harder, since one would want to reason based on the text? Thank you for your time and your graceful handling of us terrible anons 🥰

(The posts referenced: one and two)

(I'm chronically bad at recognizing these individuall spelling patterns. Unless they make it obvious, every anon is a newborn dawn to me.)

Hello and thank you!

For me, the actual text of the books should always be central when it comes to actually analyzing the books. (You know. Obviously.) Interviews can be nice, but should be absolutely optional to any of it. If you NEED an interview to support your position, you're not analyzing the text.

Perhaps I am biased because I can't be bothered to follow GRRM interviews, let alone dig up ancient ones - unless I am feeling especially motivated.

But also, most of the time we don't have a lot of good context for GRRM's quotes. How exactly a question was phrased, what direction the conversation went before it, how distracted or rushed was GRRM when answering, how likely is it he actually managed to get across exactly what he meant, and how easily can it get twisted around? Who edited and published it? Worse, did it go through a translation process?

Take the "Aragorn's Tax Policy" quote that still has people frothing at the mouth. People hear him mention Tolkien and lose all sense of nuance. No, he's not describing how his endgame king will be elected on his tax plan. He's giving context for parts of ADWD. That's it. Still people wail about what an evil hypocrite GRRM supposedly is because Bran was crowned king in the show without a single published treatise on his taxation policy.

Same with some commentary on the show, specifically Dany with Drogo. I've had people in my Inbox arguing for Rhaegar/Lyanna because GRRM is obviously okay with adult men preying on teenaged girls based on that interview. Which... you know, actually read Dany's chapters? Please?

The books, on the other hand, were not blathered out in a hurry. They are not a commentary on a text, they are the text. A labor of many hours of writing, editing, rewriting and more editing. They are complete and fully intentional in their form. They are the message.

So, while I admire how someone who knows what they are doing is able to create a brilliant body of supporting evidence on book content by compiling quotes in a meaningful way, often with good sources and context - looking at you here, @kellyvela - these lovely metas should never be considered necessary to understanding the text, and they should certainly neither replace nor supercede it. They augment the experience of it.

Knowing GRRM approved on the Meereenese Blot essays is nice.

But you don't need to know them, nor what GRRM thinks of them, in order to arrive at the same conclusion.

Knowing GRRM agrees with the statement that "Brienne is Sansa with a sword" is nice.

But you need never have heard of that quote in order to understand the similarities between these two idealistic, dutiful female characters.

He called Tyrion a villain, which is nice.

But you can arrive at that same conclusion by reading the books.

On the other hand, you can take one quote about the Key Five Characters from a decades-old outline that deviates from established plot in multiple significant instances, and then try and justify dismissing the importance of other characters. You just need to ignore the published text in order to do it!

So I just can't take that anon seriously when they gesture wildly at some quote about Sansa while ignoring the way it's entirely contradicted by the actual body of the text.

And if some members of the fandom have a habit of very selectively reading the text then this makes their analysis suspect, so what's really the point of arguing with someone who isn't really interested in analysis in the first place?

If "she burned a slave alive" or "she is ordering her servant to please her sexually" or "she condons torture even while she knows its useless" or "she ordered the murder of children" isn't going to convince them, an interview snippet isn't going to do it, either.