#i still have faith in 15x20 tho

[angelsdean]

like, i get that some people are upset that dean is still in heaven but, it wasn't really a shock to me at all ?? sure i clowned a bit w/ the 'time traveling aliveboy dean' stuff but they literally said before the show even started that dean was on a "hiatus" from heaven and that was always in the back of my mind thru out my clowning. and it really was a hiatus from heaven ! it all took place in the heaven drive time gap as like a finale coda (and what a huge time gap that is to fill. there's still so much they can do w/ that bit of time alone imo). we also don't know how much jensen + robbie were allowed to change, there may have been stipulations w/ spnwin to not change the heaven finale, something that might have to wait for a reboot / continuation of spn prime.

but regardless, crucially ??? what spnwin did is it completely recontexualized dean's ending. i said this in the tags of this post but i'll say it again: the spn finale said. ok dean's dead. he waits for sam. and that's it. spnwin said. no actually !!! he's not accepting that peace !! he's not waiting around for sam !! and giving dean back that agency is important to me. giving dean back the ability to make his own choices and want things for himself is important to me.

and i know some people are doubtful that we'll get a s2 of spnwin, meaning dean's story would end here, on him being unhappy in heaven. but personally, i don't think it matters if we get a s2. i think jensen is Not done with dean or the spn prime story. he's said before that spnwin is only one of many stories he wants to explore in the spn universe. also, after that answer he gave recently at jibcon re: a destiel reunion, i think he def wants more spn ("hopefully we get to see that at some point / i'm sure it would go how we all think it would go" and dean wanting to talk abt the confession)

i think even if we don't get a s2, everything that spnwin established re: dean's story will be the foundation for that reboot / mini series they're always talking about. personally, i Don't think we'll see dean again if there is a s2. (tho we may hear him in voiceovers as they read his journal and use it as a guide. and we may learn more abt dean and his journey this way). overall, i think dean helped establish this story and these characters, but moving forward it will be focused on them and not dean (tho we will see familiar spn faces, and maybe they will get involved in the multiverse too and visit the main spn universe, who knows?)

i think we needed what spnwin gave us re: dean's story not being over, dean unhappy in heaven, dean still searching more, (hints about jack possibly being "off" too / chuck won theory...) as a foundation for future stories in the main spn universe post-15x20. we want to see dean bust out of heaven and find happiness right? well, the seeds for that have been planted. and i knowww that's asking for optimism and faith that we WILL see a continuation in the future, and i get that some people are just doubtful and hopeless, but i really think we will see a continuation in the (maybe not so distant) future. and imo having this foundation to work off w/ dean's recontextualized time in heaven is important for all the things we want to see in a continuation.

and like, even tho i'm annoyed that ppl think his 'ending' now is worse than it was in 15x20, i don't think it's wrong to feel upset, because if that really were where it ended for dean i wouldn't be happy either. but for me the thing is i really really do Not think this is it for dean. i don't think jensen will be satisfied w/ dean staying dead in heaven forever. it completely goes against the thesis of the show, and dean's personal desire for freedom over peace in 'paradise.' and after everything jensen said abt dean + cas reuniting, i think there's a lot of unresolved things in spn that he wants to address, and he'll keep trying to make more spn until we get a better ending for all these characters (bc lbr, sam's ending also sucked. we never saw cas again and all he got was a throwaway line in the finale. jack deserves better too. they all do).

[bunnymcbunnister]

Finally got around to rewatching 15x19, and I was just as underwhelmed. I spent most of the rewatch on my phone playing candy crush, which is depressing because I would rather pay attention to exploding bonbons than the penultimate episode of my favorite tv series of all time. That being said, my main complaint (besides the “where”s the angel” insert gif here) is Adam/Michael. At first, I was mad at Bucklemming for kicking over the sand castle of another writer and the brilliant idea they had in bringing him back and then I remembered- IT WAS THIER FRIKKIN IDEA! They wrote Michael/Adam in 15x08 in such a fascinating way, and then threw it all away because they can’t write their way out of a paper bag. It gave me Jamie Lannister flashbacks to see Michael defaulting to his daddy’s boy programming. I’m so glad I can delete those two and their weirdo Lucifer boner from my life, although I’m sad I have to lose the show along with them. 

[estrel]

I may one of the few but I fully support the prequel, let creators create, but honestly hope it starts of, in cinematography wise, bright, young Mary full of hope and further along it gets darker and darker as she discovers J*hn while not yet the pos we all know and loathe. But someone who has seen humanity at a low point and see he's not what he seemed to be when they first meet. And since Dean is the narrator and essentially unrealible in this he would still hope his mom had some happiness not that a has much faith in J*hn. In short I think ppl are jumping to conclusions way too soon there are so many ways how this can be a decent show, still sucks it couldn't be wayward sisters tho

agreed, i think if they went the route with mary and john being shot by cupid (i mean...they have to. right??? right?) then some shots like those in 2x20 with the djinn dream (or...even 15x20 heaven lighting) and maybe some references to like...narrator!dean or mary or something being in a universe that Isn't Quite Right alluded to with the fake beer brands and stuff like that would add to an ominous feeling that might be really interesting to delve into yknow !!

and if this story is just one of many, i think that'd make me more optimistic/hopeful rather than a full prequel just about mary and john. but who knows! we really only know the bare minimum right now so it could go either way

[hallowed-by-thy-name]

Man, I'm sorry to say, but 15x19 sucks ass.

I mean, atleast a little bit lmao.

Aside from the minimal recognition that their best friend of 12 years is super deaded (because alright fine they've done that before, maybe forgivable), like the entire episode seemed... weird.

Like the season throught has done a decent job of consistency with the mood and the character arcs, especially the last 4/5 episodes.

15x19 atleast cinematically felt kinda disjointed, like it was trying to convey the feeling but fell short. (I maybe biased tho after 15x18 which was done so well, but tell me what you think)

The dialogue was kind of like they were trying to put in humour, but like why????? The mood is supposed to be ominous right?? (The asshats thing just felt random to me lmao)

And sure Destiel, but Sam not even HINTING at acknowledging Eileen; Jack leaving without hugs from his dads (1 dad subtracted), no 'I'm proud of you'?? Like was he not their adopted kid for the last 2 years???

I did like the ending for Chuck, the way he was left human and still in denial. But a lil more build up would have been nice???? It didn't come across as one of those mega showdowns (again, my thoughts). Maybe cause it was the season finale, shit was rushed, which is alright, I guess. But they don't tell me they didn't have much more potential for this one.

That being said, 15x20 leaves a lot of room of thought, because we KNOW that what they're doing now and their choices from now on are unequivocally THEM.

Them riding off into the sunset together is great and all, sure but like that's just a huge 'fuck you' to the show's deeprooted 'Family don't end in blood'.

Anyway.

I continue to hope, for both Saileen and Destiel and like a wholesome fuckin ending with like pie and dogs and lovey-dovey shit 'cause god know Sam and Dean deserve it.

We've got faith in you Dabb, Bobo. Don't let us down.

[tearsofgrace]

fave emoji is 🥺 and I've been feeling it a lot lately lol positive 15x20 thoughts: there's literally NOTHING else to do except bring Cas and Eileen back 🤞🤞🤞 and also Misha hasn't posted anything about saying goodbye to the show/cas whereas Alex Calvert posted basically straight away so (even though my clown shoes squeak) I still believe in Dabb to give us the ending we deserve 🤞

aww that emoji makes me so soft tho. yesssss the alex post thing is making me so hopeful. faith. in. andrew. dabb. 2020

url: i confused | ooh cool | i love it (would love the story) | amazing !! | “i think it’s adorable”

icon: ooh cool | i love it | may i have ? | iconic (get it) | “i need you”

desktop theme: nice nice | ooh cool | i love it | perfection | “you just gave up an entire army for one man”

original content: none | nice nice | ooh cool | i love it | flawless talent | “cas, i hope you can hear me”

reblogs: nice nice | ooh cool | i love it | flawless/10 | “he’s in love… with humanity”

overall: nice nice | ooh cool | i love it | deserving the world | “you are the most selfless, loving human being… i will ever know”

following: no, sorry :) | now i am ! | yes ma’am | “YOU HAVE CHANGED ME. I LOVE YOU.”

rules | send me fave emoji+15.20 positive for blograte

[neven-ebrez]

i Hate to be that person but i........... really hope spn doesn't go the way as magicians

Okay so I don’t know the exact details but the gist of what the Magicians did sounds like what Cas has been doing for a long time. Cas is depressed. Cas keeps sacrificing himself because he has a cause to die for, a person to die for, but not one to live for. Thus, the narrative presents this as a problem to be solved. For Cas, living is literally the solution to his problem. He just needs to hear that he’s wanted unconditionally and loved the same way. Unless Andrew Dabb and Robert Singer are the dumbest people on the planet then Cas sacrificing himself again (for the same thing) absolutely can’t be where we are headed. Meredith Glynn is the one handling this part of the story and her metaphor of the Empty as walking, talking depression literally can’t be made any clearer. She’s taken great care and nuance with this storyline. The storyline itself is not her choice tho. It’s been the showrunner’s decision every time.

Mytharc episodes, huge mytharc plots, these storylines have huge showrunner oversight. This entire plotline reveals their intention with Cas. There’s literally no point in setting up this whole scenario if Cas is just gonna kill himself again. It’s a rescue scenario, with Dean being the one framed to be the rescuer. 14x10 and 14x18 focus on Cas’ failures and specifically how Dean handles them, with Cas basically powerless to whatever Dean decides. Many times, Dean is framed as catalyst to Cas’ feelings over failing and failure is what the Empty specifically focuses on. Failure causes Cas’ depression. Failure is letting Dean down, not being wanted and loved unconditionally. If Cas feels he fails Dean and is depressed over that, then Dean making him feel not a failure is the solution. “I failed you, Dean.” “You’re dead to me.” Over and over again. This is Cas’ spiral and Dean is structured to stop it because he perpetuates it.

Whether Cas finds a way inside himself to live for himself outside of what Dean thinks of him or whether Dean rescues him (and I think we’re past the former btw, as I don’t think anyone is interested in that as we care about Cas because he rebelled for Dean), it doesn’t “technically” matter. Those are literally the show’s only options here. Breaking cycles is what 14x18 was about and it’s what the show will continue to be about. I can almost guarantee it. Because we are out of time and the spiraling structure is almost complete. For everyone.

The only one still “spinning”, still spiraling, is Jack. And that’s by design. Because while Cas is learning to live, Sam and Dean are learning that when someone dies, you let go. As sure as Cas will face his lesson, so will Dean and Sam, which means them (or one of them, but likely both) probably dying. The lessons fail, until they are finally learned. Jack, as I’ve talked about before, represents a narrative device that would allow TFW to learn all these lessons, but still facilitate a happy ending. Jack simply sacrifices himself to acheive this, redeeming himself and finally creating the paradise he promised. Jack spins, then we come full circle. It’s how Supernatural functions as a narrative. If someone isn’t spiraling, there’s no lesson crux, no story.

I mean. Supernatural could be entirely stupid here, but it wouldn’t be because this structure has been read wrong. It’d be because they decided to change the ending. Which does happen sometimes, but usually when that happens it’s because someone’s hand has been forced, like with what happened with Voltron. No one is forcing Dabb and Singer’s hands here so I personally believe that wouldn’t be an issue.

I’m personally not worried. From here on out I’m just enjoying the drama that’s left in the spirals. That’s because I know what “full circle” should look like for everyone and it’s a story I know I’ll like. So I personally have faith in the show here. I know Dabb’s style. We can see what he values. This is WAY different than what someone like Sera Gamble values. If she were ending the show I wouldn’t be watching. If Carver was ending it I don’t think I’d watch either. Same thing with Kripke. All those showrunners loved tragedy. Supernatural is a queer tragic narrative. Or it was until Dabb took over. Dabb isn’t interested in tragedy. There’s been enough of that. He’s interested in letting go of the past and learning to live for the future.

I can’t tell you what’s best for you, anon. What you should believe in. We’ve all been burned before. I don’t think that’s what will happen here. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Voltron, for example, doesn’t exist past 7x02 for me. So I’m fully prepare to reap Supernatural before 15x20 if I have to. Good luck to us all over the next year, yeah?