#i said it was weird to do so because it's a pedophilic ship

[myymi]

Tails can crush on Rouge but Rouge shouldn't ever reciprocate it.

Tails is an 8 year old little lad, it's okay for him to do things like develop crushes and it's fairly common for people to develop crushes on people older than them like celebrities and teachers.

Rouge is 18. She might have kissed Tails on the cheek in Sonic X but that was to get him out of a contest and at that time she was shown regularly flirting with anyone is it meant she could get her way.

Even if you aged Tails up to 18, Rouge should then be 28. While it would then be legal, there's still the social taboo of dating someone much younger than her.

yeah?? i know???? i don't understand the point of this, anon. i don't ship them, i don't even headcanon tails to have a crush on rouge because it's weird to me. i feel like he sees her more as an aunt or distant cousin then anything.

[the--queen-of--hell]

I don't know what to think about anti proshippers anymore.

Antishippers say "stop normalizing child x adult ships" "stop normalizing incest" "stop romanticizing child x adult ships" "stop romanticizing incest" while being okay with romanticizing murder in some shows/movies and romanticizing cannibalism in some shows/movies. I didn't see any antiship throw hands the moment someone said "I like Hannibal" although it romanticize cannibalism. It's weird, isn't it?

Antishippers say "shipping fictional minor x adult ships is gross and disgusting" "shipping fictional incest ships is gross and disgusting" and "shipping X is gross and digusting" while being okay with telling real people to kill themselves. While being okay with telling real people "you should be raped" "you should be tortured" "you should burn in hell" and more things. Do you even pay attention to your actions and the actions of other people? How shipping two characters is worse than telling a real person "kill yourself"????

Antishippers say "you are gross" "you need help" "you're insane" "you need therapy" while being the ones who tell proshippers "you deserve to have trauma" "you deserved to be raped" (for those proshippers who were raped and were told they deserved it by antis- I'm so sorry). I'm no therapist, but if I were I would honestly find more disturbing an anti saying "kys" to a real person than a proshipper liking problematic fictional content.

Antishippers say "protect the children" "children could see this and think it's okay" "victims of pedophiles/abuse don't deserve someone romanticizing their trauma". You have no right to claim you want to protect children when you're harassing or telling children to kill themselves. Because yes, in the proship community there are minors. And no, they haven't been groomed into being a proship. Actually, if anything, they would have been groomed into being an antiship because they're scared of people telling them "kys" "you're a pedo" "you're fucking disgusting". And what are children doing in Tumblr/AO3/Wattpad anyways? They're not supposed to be here. They're not supposed to see content not made for them. If they are in these websites, I'm worried about why their parents aren't there to tell them "this is not a safe place for you". And if people were hurt by real pedophiles or were abused, I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry for them. But why the hell they're seeing fictional content that triggers them? If it upsets them, then block the content, ignore its existence, and trust me, you will feel less upset and more happy.

Antishippers say "you deserve to be harassed" "if you don't want to be harassed then stop being weird" "if you don't want to be harassed then stop sharing that type of content". Do you realize you sound like those people who say "if you don't want to be harassed for being gay, then don't be gay" "if you don't want to be harassed for being trans, then don't be trans" "if you don't want to be bullied, then stop being a weirdo", right? Or you didn't realize that?

Antishippers say "this ship is fucking gross" "this ship is fucking disgusting". I'm sorry, didn't you see the thing that said "block button" "filter tags"? Because you can do that. If you don't like some kind of content, use the filter tags/block button. Watch the content you want to see. Use the block button and filter the tags. Search for the ships you like instead of the ships you don't like. I forgot something? Oh yeah. Use. the. block. button. and filter. the. tags.

Antishippers say "why there are so many fics of these ships on AO3?" "why people are so gross?" "why people have to write about this?". Bro- I'm sorry that you didn't realize before but- AO3. IS. A. FUCKING. WEBSITE. FOR. PROSHIPPERS. So don't start with the "Proship DNI" in your tags because AO3 is a PROSHIP web. If you don't like it, GET OUT of AO3 and go WATTPAD or FANFICTION. AO3 is for PROSHIPPERS and we're TIRED of your "Proship DNI" bullshit.

Antiship community is honestly one of the worst communities I've ever seen. There's no other community so inmoral, digusting, and horrible in the Internet.

To my proshippers fellows, if I forgot something antis say you're free to add it.

[olderthannetfic]

I'm not really contributing to any of the ongoing discussions here. Just relaying a recent experience I had.

I was perusing ao3 (as you do at 1AM) and came across a fic with a promising premise. The summary read like it was centralized around one of my favorite characters, and the tags were all tags I liked, especially so with said character.

So, I got that initial reader's high, tapped the title link like "let's gooooooo," only to get a few paragraphs in and realize that this was not a "favorite character" positive fic. Very quickly, it became apparent that this author did not like this character. The narrative was written from others' POVs with a focus on said character's less endearing traits. Traits that were not all that significant in canon. It was kind of like they took a behavior, exaggerated it to the max until it consumed and rewrote the character's personality, and then had others (that, in canon, actually like the character) bash them for it. Which is kind of weird-funny to me cause, 100%, the character is controversial. There are a lot of reasons to be critical about them. I've seen fics where the basis is 'everything is canon, but the character is completely written out.' You like them, you don't, or at the very least they're tagged character bashing.

But okay. Whatever. The tags and description were misleading. The story was disappointing. It happens. I'm the one who decided to keep reading anyway because it was actually quite well written despite the characterizations making me sad. It's all good. It's the expected hazards that come with the perusing. But then, I had let my curiosity get the better of me.

I read the comments.

Four down, I found a deleted comment. I don't how bad it must have been. But the responses to it were certainly... yeah. Someone, not the author, responded with quite the vitriol. They shared the user's pseud 'in case they deleted their comment,' said they went through the user's bookmarks, aired out the "problematic" pairings the user had read, said 'of course they like this character, they already have the leanings,' and then concluded by calling them an incest loving pedophile.

The author also responded with a remark along the lines of, "while I appreciate you taking the time to read my work, I hope you never do so again as I don't want 'your sort' here." And ended it with a 😊 ❤️.

Like... I don't know what the original user said, but did it really warrant that? The problematic ships listed weren't even problematic. The only ship they could even be referring to as 'incest' among the ones listed was a ship I know is between between two people, not related, never canonically thought themselves to be so, three years apart, mostly just really good chaotic friends, that the fandom had decided blanketedly were brother and sister. Plus, the controversial character I said was one of my favorites, canonically, has only loved one person their whole life, who is the same age as them. So I don't even know what they mean by 'leanings.'

Which, subsequently, made me wonder if the original comment had even been genuinely deserving of such harsh responses. I guess it also just bothered me a lot cause, like I said above, the pseud is still there despite the deleted comment. Anyone can go and harass them if they wanted.

I don't really have a point.

It was just a lot. I'm still thinking about it a day later, and I don't really know how to feel about it all.

--

I know how to feel about it:

This author does not deserve comments.

[damnfandomproblems]

Response to 5634: Mkay, do not start complaining about something you like being censored because you’re acting indifferent to someone being pro-censorship bully arguing with an anti-censorship and anti-harassment person.

The reason why these arguments are a big deal (and you can just ignore the arguments by blocking if it bugs you that much) is because the arguments antis make is similar to that of puritans, old ignorant people trying to blame video games for school shootings and wanting games like GTA censored or banned, and people that were book burners as one of the commenters pointed out.

Antis actively go into spaces they KNOW they hate with a passion and make callout posts that were designed to harass people, Antis legit made blogs PURELY just to bully someone over dead dove fanfiction, and antis are the most bigoted people, when someone who writes content they don’t like just so happens to be a minority, it quickly is no longer about fictional content they hate, now they gotta be racist towards a POC writer (I’ve seen this happen to a South Asian woman).

Antis have also been the reason why some artists get ran off the internet. I’ve seen it happen to a non-binary artist who was harassed off the internet a pseudo-incest ship. Their Twitter, Tumblr blog, and anything else they had were all wiped from existence, and I will never forgive the people that did that to them.

Antis are also the most insensitive people and insult real life rape victims or people that have had CSEM made of them. Jenna Ortega had CSEM made of her by sick freaks that made explicit AI generated photos of her as a kid. Then idiots made it about weird gross anime porn fetishes and that is how it leads to creeps online making CSEM or prey on real life kids. Read the GODDAMN room.

Speaking of CSEM, antis have defended Netflix’s Cuties, which is actual CSEM in comparison to drawings and fanfiction with underage characters.

Another anti who was ironically an artist also responded to a CSA survivor saying, “do not equate my pain and suffering to anime drawings” in the most insulting way imaginable with an eye roll gif.

There has also been cases where antis were caught being a creep towards children. One minute an anti is calling people “pedophiles” over fiction, next thing you know, they got caught sexting a minor, they have actual convictions and are on the sex offender registry, they accepted minors into their 18+ space, or literally anything else that involves endangering minors. Which is why I’m bracing myself for a similar incident in the JJK fandom with all the puritans running around invading tags like an obnoxious person.

I could go on, but this is already long enough as it is. Now, the next time you wanna play that Peter Griffin clip on full blast saying, “who the hell cares,” think about everything I said here.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[roadhogsbigbelly]

ok i didn't really want to do this because i deleted the original posts when it had only 70 notes because i was under the assumption noone would see it but t/xttletale ended up reblogging it anyway and now i have people telling me to kill myself in my inbox so i guess i might as well give details

honestly did not know she was trans until people accused me of pedojacking her, for some reason it never registered because i guess i only see her blog when her posts pop up on my feed but you know my bad i guess

2)yes it's true the term "loliporn" never shows up but someone does say "don't say you're pro-kink and nasty gay sex if you're not supportive of ageplay, cnc, or incest shipping" and than she said "yes, and" which like. seems slightly like an endorsement? but i assume that loliporn was just kind of included with the package, because i do have evidence that toonimal would not be against that

3) i never directly called her a pedophile just that it's really fucking bizzare to have that hot take about "wholesome games" when you agreed with a take that said not liking incest porn or ageplay is "anti-kink or whatever

now did initially censor the names in the post because of reasons i'll explain later but i did realize with no context it looks like both posts were from the same person so i did end up mentioning in the tags that there were two different people before later deleting it all together. but i honestly don't feel THAT bad attributing it to her because she did both reblog the post and than also add on to it, which kind of negates the possibility she didn't fully read the post? still i did censor it again for reasons i'll explain later.

4) i kind of went out of my way to not attribute anything to her. when i talked about her weird stardew valley take i still censored them, because after being told to kill myself for having a lukewarm hot take on sex work last year i usually always censor posts when criticizng/making fun of them. i'm honestly surprised she managed to find it because i deleted it when it only had like 60 notes, and the only reason i found out she found it is because one of her followers sent be an ask telling me to kill myself. and out of curiousity i checked her blog.

i deleted this post before i post this just so her follower doesn't get harassed or whatever. but you know. not fun.

and 5) while i insist i didn't directly accuse her of being a pedophile i DID in fact accuse the person she was agreeing with of being a pedohpile. cause they are.

i'm not going to post the entire callout post cause it's honestly really fucking gross but tldr they run a "contact positive paraphilia forum" which is a basicly code for "actually fucking pedophiles" which kind of recontextualizes they entire post right? that's also why i went out of my way to censor txttletale's name and than later specify there were two different people before deleting it. because i assumed she didn't know the person she was agreeing with was an actual pedophile, but accidently agreeing with a pedophile is uh. not good. i think, someone actually informed her that toonimals was a pedophilia and she said this.

now i'm not saying you have to do a background check on every person you reblog from but if that post talks about "how pro-sex freak people need to be more supportive of people who are into incest" than actually yeah you do sort of have an obligation to make sure they aren't an actual fucking pedophile. the entire basis of that post is "people should stop being mean to actual sex freaks" and you not only reblog it but add onto that yeah that's a fucking issue because 99 percent of time the people who make those posts ARE actual fucking pedophiles, so yeah you probably should be a bit wary. because like.

this is my issue, i don't think you're a pedophile because you don't think there's anything wrong with fiction/sex acts that depict immoral things, my issue is that that logic is used and agreed upon by actual pedophiles. pedophiles are agreeing with you! that's not great! there's my issue with your logic!

[chaifootsteps]

...nevermind! I have another thing to say and ask.

I just literally searched your username in Tumblr and I got to see a lot of posts accusing you of a variety of things, things like:

being a lolicon / shotacon (steming from you pointing out in a post that fictional children shouldn't be reported and the accuser said that's part of the problem and you're encouraging pedophilia)

being a zoopedo (because of the toothless and hiccup pairing, of course, also managing to see that they've defended and remarked that the "SoftFurArchive" / Norry / idk was trying to warn all of that)

being an armchair psychologist and ableist (because you and an Anon diagnosed Viv with narcissism in a ask)

being a proshipper (an amalgamation of posts, but most focused on the fact of the Toothless x Hiccup ship)

being a KiwiFarms apologist (because of posts about you talking about KiwiFarms and sometimes praising some of the users' comments there)

being a gatekeeper over what's trans (from you saying what a trans should or should not be in a post)

Please, Chai, ease my mind by clarifying if any of this is true or false, or it's just a byproduct of gullible people falling over supposed evidence, or just proshipper puritans attacking you because they don't like you.

— Instagram!Stolas Anon, concerned.

Let's break this down point by point

No, I don't like loli or shota, but I've got a couple of ships that are weird and personal and require convoluted explanations, so I try to extend the same benefit of the doubt to other people.

No, I'm not a pedophile. I'm a CSA survivor, which is why I'm incredibly concerned about things like alarm fatigue. I think certain terms need to be limited to things involving real children and then we can argue about Naruto ships all day.

No, I'm not a zoophile, I like monsters and dragons and generic furry stuff. The term for the former is teratophila. I've been accused of murdering my pets and sent links to actual animal abuse over this.

I don't call myself a proshipper anymore because I'm not playing the "Ah-ha, I think it means X and you said you're that, so you believe what I think you believe" game. I judge people as they come and whether you call yourself proshipper or anti, you're welcome here as long as you can behave.

I've said before that I shouldn't have indulged that ask, but I didn't say that Viv definitely has NPD, I said that if you dangled me over a shark tank and forced me to throw out an armchair diagnosis, it's one I've wondered about. I hope she doesn't, because it's a misunderstood disorder and an extremely sad one. To quote someone who's got it, Nothing's ever OK. You're either too high on yourself for outperforming everyone else, or too harsh on yourself for not being good enough for your own standards.

I'm fascinated by old internet forums and Kiwi Farms is a place that interests me more than any other. It's swaddled in a mixture of misinformation and being exactly as bad as everyone says, but in an increasingly corporate owned, regulated, KOSA-just-passed-the-Senate internet, there are days I'm profoundly grateful that Null's as stubborn as he is.

I'm trans. I genuinely have no idea where this "gatekeeping" thing is coming from.

Let me be very clear. The FBI and NCMEC have literally begged people to stop reporting fictional characters, because fighting pedophiles is like fighting a million headed Hydra. So it burns me when people say things like this.

If you think it's acceptable to do something child protection agencies have again, begged people to stop doing because it gives you a good feeling to do it and you think that trumps the well-being of real missing and exploited children, you are dangerously detached from reality and not welcome on my blog.

TL;DR: All false.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

If everyone called Adult Showrunners of Shows for Kids pedophiles just because their show for kids includes kids having crushes and getting together, there'd be no romance in kids' media at all. I think what bugs me the most about ZKs is the double standards and how much they'll be intellectually dishonest just to keep attempting to prove a point

"There'd be no romance in kids' media at all" that's actually something I've seen people push for. Like, they think that a fictional story acknowledging the fact that kids already know romance is a thing and that sometimes they have crushes on each other is the same as it sexualizing/grooming children, even if nothing even remotely sexual happens in said story.

It's basically the modern day version of the Hays Code imposing the stupid rule of "You can't show a married couple sharing a bed, even if they're literally just sleeping, fully clothed, not even touching each other, because acknowledging that married people share a bed is obscene because it subtly reminds people that sex is a thing."

And it is funny that zutarians often go "Aang being 12 makes the romance weird/inappropriate" or makes Bryke look "suspicious" for "forcing kids to kiss" multiple times when:

1 - The Kataang age-gap is the same as the Zutara age-gap.

2 - A 12-year-old having a crush on someone is the most normal thing ever.

3 - Plenty of them were Aang's exact age or even younger when they started crushing on Zuko/shipping Zutara.

4 - The overwhelming majority of them are now adults but they are still writting full on porn of Zutara, just like they were doing back in the day as pre-teens/teens.

It's pure "This harmless thing is now bad because I said so - but only when other people do it."

[ask-dare-my-bbieal-au]

hi hello! uhh new ask blog this is new i’m new to this help me hidjdjjskd

main: @churrothezanyrabbit (mostly active-ish there)

i have a discord, feel free to ask for it in messages!

for this blog, and especially due to me being new, asks won’t be answered right away at the beginning, and may take some time, so please be patient with me! (i’m begging for my autistic ass cuz i’ll get stressed out 😭🙏)

rules/dni’s for this blog!!

dni!!

basic dni, y’know, the obvious

dni if you are ableist, homophobic/transphobic, pedophile/pedo supporter, incest-liker/incest supporter, and y’know just the basics just DON’T BE A FUCKING JERK, and no fetish shit ew/lh

—

rules!!

don’t send nsfw asks (dirty jokes are fine, just don’t make them too explicit)

magic anons are allowed just don’t do weird shit like turning a kid into an adult just so you can like them (bc if you like a child character, example being suzy[aka playtime], you’re getting mcfucking BLOCKED YOU WEIRDO), otherwise typical normal (i use that term lightly) magic asks are fine

for the love of dr reflex don’t do any m!preg asks bc to me that counts as an nsfw ask and i will not do it

no fetish art i’m not doing that it’s a nono for me (doesn’t count as nsfw, like what you want as long as it isn’t illegal but don’t bring it to me please/lh)

—

things i WILL do!

draw (obv, possibly commissions but it depends)

post randomly bc i’m weird like that or im just bored

draw blood/gore/etc (but if it’s heavy i’ll prob censor it, bc ofc, people have triggers and i don’t want to disrespect them, tho if it’s light or whatever i’ll post it)

constantly give new headcanons to the characters (i’m autistic let me do my thing and you do yours without being a dick)

have sporadic on-and-off moments (as in i might not post for a hot while and then have this sudden spur of posting stuff quickly)

attempt to draw oc’s and such (as long as they’re not complicated)

draw other baldi’s OF COURSE :D (as long as they’re not problematic or too hard to draw 🥲🙏)

—

things i WON’T do!

draw nsfw (obv)

post uncensored heavy gore

have any minor (y’know, like kid) characters do anything normal wear anything even remotely sexual in any way shape or form

accept asks relating to any political stuff or anything in the irl world (this world is purely fictional, and this is partly comfort for me to escape reality, so please don’t 🫶)

NO M!PREG I’M STATING IT TWICE

ship oc x canon/draw it (sorry it is just weird to me a little bit, ofc i have no problem with it but i don’t want it on this blog, respectfully! however i’ll be willing to draw said oc :3 …if it isn’t complicated 🥲)

interact with problematic content/au’s/other stuff (and if there is any other stuff that is problematic please let me know asap cuz i don’t want to support problematic creators!)

—

reblogs are heavily appreciated!!

—

my version of baldi is shipped with my partner’s version of baldi, who is named harris. if you are interested in princibaldi, baldiflex, or princibaldiflex or whatever else you ship then, don’t come to this blog, please. if anything, i’ll be posting it on my main, which is up there! i like those 3 ships, ofc, but i won’t be doing them here./lh

i will not stand for negativity and hate towards this blog, and if you send me an ask directed with hate towards me and/or my versions of the characters anonymously, i will not be answering you. if you don’t like it, get out and block me or something because i’m not taking shit from nobody.

i use tone tags! (please use them back i’m begging)

finally, take the boye!!

the polymorph who is indeed only 4’11”….. (will give other info later)

Phineas King Baldimore!

(he/they)

[aurathian]

things that have stuck with me as a woc in (the zelda) fandom

Hey all. This post is mostly about the Gerudo and my own experiences in fandom as a Middle Eastern woman (will be using acronyms such as MENA and woc), because the longer I stay here the more insane I become. This post is mostly about a lot of horrible stereotyping, misogynistic, racist, etc. headcanons, and just downright horribly offensive comments I've witnessed that have stuck with me throughout my time here.

There are a lot of other problems in this fandom with a lot of other aspects of the games (the Zonai...) which I won't touch on, as the Gerudo resonate closest with me and I feel I have the authority to speak on these issues as I am MENA, and they are based on MENA stereotypes.

TW for racism, misogyny, xenophobia, abortion... it's just strange.

The most notable thing I've experienced during my time in this fandom is being spoken over, as a woc talking about woc issues, by white people. White people who were MY FRIENDS.

One instance that sticks out to me is when someone shared their art of Urbosa in a Zelda server. It was really sexualized, and her waist was EXTREMELY tiny. Below the art, the artist said, "her waist is snatched because she got an abortion." She didn't say this about the other characters she drew. Only the woc.

Do I need to elaborate on why that is a horrible, disgusting thing to say?

This really upset me. What upset me more, however, was that nobody spoke up. Nobody said hey, this is wrong, and what you said is gross. When I spoke about this with my friends, they continued to bash the art style or whatever and ignore the fact that what was said was disgustingly racist. Then, after repeating about 5 separate times the impact this had on me as a woc (because nobody was listening to me and the most action that was taken was hug emojis), I got asked: Are you MENA?

They chose to ignore the racism they were witnessing and then questioned my (already stated) credibility. To question my capacity to be upset, hurt, and angry. These were people I called friends.

This next instance was not me being spoken over, but it was... weird. In a Zelda server, someone shared their headcanons for their personal AU. One of these headcanons was:

The Gerudo stop aging until they meet their significant other.

The Gerudo stop aging until they meet their significant other.

This was to justify the person's pedophilic ship with Riju, which... yeah. Self explanatory. So not only that, but you are tying the life and worth of WOC to their partners which, in-game, are men. The Gerudo do not continue their lives until they met their partners. The woc do not continue their lives until they meet their partners.

Be real.

This person ended up getting called out (after MUCH convincing from me to do so...).

These are two specific instances that have stuck with me during my time in fandom, but now I'll touch on more general stuff.

The only way people speak about Urbosa or other Gerudo characters is sexually or violently. It seems we only have the capacity to say "yes mommy Urbosa step on me! Crush my bones!! Yes!!" which is actually extremely harmful. You can like the Gerudo. You can think they're sexy or hot. But you need to be more mindful about how you speak about them, because if the only way you can express your feelings about these woc is through acts of violence, that is a problem. Because you cannot see the Gerudo as characters beyond being man-hating lesbians to satisfy your own fetishes. By acting this way, you also contribute to the idea that Gerudo women cannot be feminine because they are brown-skinned. No other race in Zelda is spoken about this way.

The Gerudo are often attached to other characters, as mentioned previously. I think this is most commonly and easily seen with Urbosa. Whenever she is discussed, it is in relation to Zelda (mother-daughter relationship) or Zelda's mother (having an affair or whatever other headcanons there may be). It is rare that Urbosa is written on her own, outside of her relationships. Not like she has an entire society to run or anything.

Let's also not forget about the sexualization of Link in his Gerudo vai outfit. Yes, it's cute. Yes, it looks good on him. But so many of you borderline fetishize him wearing it. However, I don't think I know enough to speak on this specific issue, so I will stop there with that.

I will never forget the time I came across a post saying that the existence of Ashai, a pale Gerudo, is racist.

Here is Ashai. She teaches the dating lessons in Gerudo Town. As you can see, she is paler than a lot of the Gerudo.

However, contrary to the westernized belief that all Middle Eastern people are literally brown-skinned Muslims, the Middle East is extremely diverse. Middle Eastern people are pale, dark, brown, tall, short, Muslim, Christian, Jewish. We are not carbon copies of each other like this poster wanted the Gerudo to be. In fact, this same exact identical-ness is what made early versions of the Gerudo so racist. The one thing Nintendo did right was having a diverse range of skin tones for the Gerudo in BOTW, and by saying Ashai's existence as a pale Gerudo is racist, you erase all of that progress.

Race is not just in your skin tone. It's in your eyes, your nose, your mouth, your ears, your body. That is why, despite being pale, Ashai is Gerudo. Ashai is a WOC.

This post is not intended to stir up drama, because if you believe racism = drama, that is not on the poc calling it out.

If you are a white person who is friends with POC, this doesn't make you exempt from contributing to the harmful stereotypes or racism.

Sit down. Listen. And reflect.

[a-secret-bolton-vampire]

Something has been bugging me lately; why is it that so much of the ASOIAF fandom hates romance? Like, this is a problem I've noticed and it's honestly kind of weird. To be sure, George's view on what is romantic is, uh, dubious at best, but to outright be so against it the way I've seen some people be against it is quite bizarre, to say the least.

Rhaegar and Lyanna? Of course there's no romance there! Rhaegar clearly was just using Lyanna as a baby factory to produce a super prophecy child because that's all there is to his character!

Jon and Daenerys? They won't be getting together like that dumb show! And if they are, it will be purely a political marriage! No lovey dovey stuff there!. After all Dany likes "bad boys" (which somehow translates to "evil men") so why would she like a strong, assertive man like Jon? And why would Jon like her? Not like he likes strong fiery tempered women!

Those are the two biggest examples but there is more. Daemon Blackfyre and Daenerys Targaryen are more ambiguous since they are historical characters, but a lot of people are convinced it was 100% unrequited love.

I've even seen fans complain about the line from Barristan where he thinks about how Bittersteel and Bloodraven's rivalry over the affections of Shiera Seastar caused the Blackfyre Rebellions. Like sure it wasn't the only reason, but to think that jealousy and romance didn't have an effect on those rebellions is a bit weird.

Yes, I am aware these are some problematic pairings, not least of which because most of these are pretty incestuous. However, the complaints about these romances do not stem from a moral quandary. In the case of R+L, you see people calling Rhaegar a groomer and pedophile (see my post on him on my full thoughts there), but the majority of it is simply "well it's stupid because they told no one and caused a whole war, the selfish brats" (bonus points if someone specifically targets Lyanna).

Okay, setting aside the fact that, like with the Blackfyre Rebellions, Robert's Rebellion was caused by far more factors than their elopement, why does making it an abduction Rhaegar did simply for a magic messiah baby make it a better story than the fact these two were in love and desperate to escape situations they felt trapped in, leading to shortsighted decisions that had an unexpected affect on many people?

With Jon and Dany, the backlash is "but that's so cliche! George wouldn't do something as cliche as two of the biggest protagonists falling in love." As if George doesn't constantly engage with cliche storybeats as often or even more than he subverts them. Even when the evidence for the two getting together is literally so overwhelming that you'd need to be willfully ignorant to ignore the foreshadowing (plus the fact George literally said that their union is "the point of the series").

And again, I must ask; why is Jon and Dany marrying to secure a political alliance without any real love between them a better story than an epic, doomed romance between two people who have gone through such similar struggles and have such similar personalities? What does R+L=J even exist for if they are just a couple of convenience using each other?

I'm not saying you have to love and ship all these people together. Because we sometimes forget our little fandom bubble, most people are not okay with even fictional incest ships. That's okay. Sometimes it's not even incest ships, but again, that's okay! We are all different and have our preferences! Some might not even care much for romance.

But the way a lot of this is criticized doesn't read like that. It's always focusing on the negative aspects. Especially with Dany's love interests. I'm not a fan of Daario and Dany, personally, but it is a bit uncomfortable how she is targeted so heavily for thinking and getting horny about him. Like... let a girl be horny and infatuated? Lol, I don't know!

With Rhaegar and Lyanna, Prince Duncan the Small and Jenny of Oldstones, the "problem" is that their disregard for political betrothals and following their hearts makes them stupid monsters who are directly responsible for the deaths of thousands. That is absolutely not the way we should take these romances.

These doomed, tragic affairs aren't about how people are selfish. It's about the power of love. The way love makes people act rashly. The way love consumes someones thoughts and feelings. Love is powerful, it is transformative, transcending. That is the point. Even in spite of the death and chaos occurring around it, the love these people have for each other is something that cannot be broken.

I feel like the fandom has taken the wrong approach to this series tone and themes. I'm not George's biggest personal fan, to be quite honest, but he is a self described romantic. Turning Rhaegar from a lovestruck prince to a selfish crazed maniac is not romantic. Turning romance or potential romance into cold political maneuvers is not romantic.

The point of all this is that, yes, the world is dark. It's scary, it's cruel, unforgiving, and cold. But in that darkness, there are pockets of light that shine and make you feel safe, and warm, and happy. It makes you forget all the troubles around you. That light, that warmth, that love, is worth fighting for, even if it's all that is left, even if it doesn't last.

I am of course, slightly biased in my assessment, lmao. You could say that me, being a bisexual polyamorous transfemme, is maybe a bit of a big fan of romance and love! Yet, it still saddens me that people try to keep romances from just being romances, and try to make the story and world more bleak as a result. We already have Ramsay, Joffrey, Gregor, Euron, Randyll Tarly. We have people who use love against others for their own gain or outright reject it violently. We don't need more of that.

[sister-lucifer]

Genuinely curious why someone who seems to sexualize (fictional) serial killers and (fictional) murderers draws the line at "proship" stuff, which is also very much fictional? Aren't most horror characters actively problematic? Or is it virtue signaling with little knowledge of what "proship" actually is, you're just trying to show that you're not like "other" freaks, even if you're cut from the same cloth. Lumping people who ship weird stuff in Fandom spaces in with literal nazis is such a silly take. It just trivializes the sentiment when you say that you believe real life nazis are on par with people who engage with dark topics in fiction. You're a "proshipper" by the very nature of the fandoms you're in, as horror is the most "problematic" a medium there is.

[tws for discussion of sex abuse, gore and incest under the cut]

pro shipping is the attempt to normalize things like incest and pedophilia within shipping and fandoms. while yes these characters are fictional, and i completely support the existence of dark content as a medium to explore these topics, my issue is with the fact that proshippers want to treat incestuous and pedophilic relationships as normal. there’s no trigger warnings on proship content, no indication or attempt to keep these things away from those it could harm (pro shipping is also super common in fandoms of kids shows, like steven universe and MLP, which is super worrying for obvious reasons). There’s a difference between writing something dark to explore its existence vs writing about a father raping his young daughter as though it’s a completely normal and healthy relationship. that sort of content pushes the idea that children can consent and want sex, and often pushes blame onto victims of assault. with no tws or any sort of attempts to guard this content, and the fact that the way it’s written actively seeks to normalize these actions, it’s incredibly dangerous.

i expanded more on this sort of idea in this post (and there’s a follow up here if that matters idk), which i highly recommend anyone who’s questioning this sort of thing reads and takes a look at the other things linked in said post, because i do think it’s important to have these discussions. there’s a difference between normalizing and exploration. everything i write has a content/warnings section. i don’t want gore porn to be normalized, which should be inherently clear by the fact that all of my dark fiction has a wide array of trigger warnings on it to make sure no one thinks it’s normal or will accidentally stumble upon it. i’m happy to have my niche little community, but i would never want something so shocking to be easily stumbled upon by someone who didn’t want to see it.

there’s a difference between writing something dark or disturbing while actively advertising the fact that it’s not for everyone, vs posting “ship” art of a child being abused and acting like it’s so cute and perfect. someone who didn’t know better could take that to heart.

sex abuse is real and rampant in our society, and it affects and hurts people every day. that’s different than fake serial killers.

also…i fail to see how having both nazis and proship on my dni is equating them? youre allowed to put whatever you want on your dni. i’ve seen people with “creepypasta fans” right next to “proshippers” on their dni, and i don’t say anything, i just move on. it’s not my business why they don’t want those people interacting with them; maybe it’s because they had a bad experience in that fandom, maybe it’s because they don’t want to see gore, maybe it’s because the stories just unsettle them, why do i care? it’s not a personal attack against me, it’s just their prerogative. it’s not my place to argue with them, they can put whatever they want on their dni and it’s not my place to try and change their mind. they’re not equating or lumping in anything, they just don’t want those people interacting with them. and that’s fair enough.

it’s also a bit of a stretch to call horror a “problematic” medium when the very nature of it is meant to be disgusting and scary. if its disgusts and scares you…..good?

you’ll never find me in someone’s inbox trying to change their mind about what they are or are not comfortable with, i just block and move on, like everyone should really. i’ve seen some seriously dogshit takes on this site, and despite how absolutely abhorrent they are, i just block and move on. it’s easier, safer and happier that way.

if you really care this much, you can make your own post about it, or come out of your anonymous box and talk to me for real. i sure as hell don’t care that much, so i won’t guarantee you’ll get a response.

seriously though, if you hate me that much, just block me and move on. in fact, i actively support people blocking me. it reduces conflict, and i know that my content isn’t for everyone, and that’s totally okay.

i don’t want this response to come off as angry or indignant because really these sort of discussions are important, i just can’t say with my whole heart that you sent this ask because you wanted to talk; you sent it because you’re angry at me for what you perceive to be a slight against you or something you believe in. i get it. but believe me, you get a lot more out of life when you remove the things that make you upset instead of trying to argue with them. start caring less and blocking liberally 👍

[slutshamethesquirrels]

welcome to this episode of shamesy cant stay out of shit and is really good at pissing people off LMAO

if you're one of the few people that messaged me my response is here.

i don't think dubcon/cnc is disgusting, nor do i think it should not be written. i HAVE written mild dubcon?? hello?? i DO think that this fandom is overrun with romanticized abuse in its worst forms.

anything involving minors will always be disgusting and absolutely reprehensible to me. sue me. i block blogs that write fanfiction about minors. s u e me.

(aged up characters are a no-go for me as a writer but those of you who do it haven't lost any respect from me. another grey area i don't care enough to debate.)

non-con is a grey area for me personally, it depends on how it's written and what the fucking point is, but i dont block blogs that write non-con because its a grey area for me as well as a lot of people.

cnc written in the context of it being actual cnc, as in an agreed upon seen is, of fucking course, fine.

incest is a trigger for ME, personally and so it gives me the ick. im not debating morals bc it gives me the ick, so i try not to think about it, thats literally it. the same way anyone elses triggers fucking function. i BEG of you, touch some goddamn grass???

this was never a pro-shipping blog. this was never a blog meant to please everyone. ive said it 12 million times, i would rather have a small audience than one i have to bend over backwards to placate.

i don't feel bad for speaking freely about how pedophilic fan works are bad??? and i never will.

now, could i have clarified i didn't agree with everything in the post? 100% that's on me but I didn't think it would matter that much.

i beg of you all, sever your weird parasocial ties you have to me and realize i am a person who has thoughts, feelings and opinions you might not like?? the block button,,, its right there and im not the only one who can use it!! thank you so much!!

[byghostface]

Look I dunno what this Daminika shipping drama is all about. (I followed you because I like your Rayllum art).

but it's not a cool thing to do to share stuff calling Jon Kent/ Damian Wayne ship "pedophilic yaoi". sounds homophobic.

We should only call the actual crime of pedophilia that and not use the word like a petty insult. Also all this rage gave me the impression that Jon/Damian was like a super twisted ship or something but I googled it and they are 17 and 13 y.o. which would be weird irl yes but that's still literally not pedophilia. they are both teens and people draw them looking the same age in fan art anyway.

If you are not in the dc fandom then maybe don't speak on something you think you know.

But it's not a cool thing to do to share stuff calling Jon Kent/ Damian Wayne ship "pedophilic yaoi". sounds homophobic.

Damian and Jon always have 3 years age gap, even before dc age up Jon, they are like 13 and 10, And after age up(Jon is stuck in space had lived through years and is back on earth) they are now 14 and 17. In most of the fan art, you see people who draw them looking the same age pre-age up, because Damian is really short at 13. And people started to ship them when Jon is 10 year old child. You don't date a child when you're a teen, or date a 14 year old teen and being a college student, that is weird.

In the current comic Jon Kent has a boyfriend-Jay Nakamura(Gossamer) whom he met in college and still happily dating.( then there are racist thing ppl would said about Jay on twitter just bc he is a Japanese character and the other shipper use that to attack him too bc they doesn't like Jayjon as a ship )

-[Action Comics v1 1059 (2024)]-Artist: Marguerite Sauvage-

As an asexual, I mostly headcanon Nika and Damian as nonbinary and asexual. And a lot of the ppl who like Daminika see them as trans for trans too.

You said you followed me for my rayllum art. So you don’t know what the characters I’m talking about, have been drawing about in dc fandom. In my previous vent post is referring to the weird age gap ship, and the maturity of different ages and mentalities when characters are being ship together. And that ship's shippers + incest proshippers are being misogyny towards Nika relentlessly. It's not about against mlm ship, or being homophobic like you claimed.

Maybe you are young and see the fanart and can't think clearly what the issue is. That I can understand, because a few years ago(when I was young and dumb!! and didn't/unable to use my brain to think clearly!!!) I used to think the weird age gap was nothing but now I'm looking back and regret the weird ship I used to ship and draw (Toph and Sokka), I don't ship them anymore + Suki x Sokka superior!!

I have deleted some of Toph and Sokka art and the remaining ones have changed titles and tags to platonic sense. I didn't delete them all because they are still part of my (dumb and reckless!!!) art journey and the things that I'm now getting over and will not ever draw as a ship again.

Which would be weird irl yes but that's still literally not pedophilia.

You admit that would be weird irl and yet tired to dismiss me when I express my uncomfortableness and wanting those ppl to leave the characters(Nika & Respawn) I care about alone. If you are the type of proshipper that says fictional doesn't affect reality… then stop talking to me + invalid opinions‼️ (don't affect reality?? Of course it is! You are a person in reality who argues with me about fiction and conception/representation that affect all of us)

Like I said in my vent post, I never want to interact with them and I don't go into their page or cross ship tags and comments on things or anything related to their ships before. And this is the first time I have spoken up and tried to defend Nika here on Tumblr. Because I'm the only one constantly making contents about her and love her as a character and the only person here on Tumblr who wants to talk about/express my love for her through my art for nearly three years.

And I can't speak up when they want to tools Nika and Respawn for their own ships and set them up as toxic made up characters in their head?!? And I should let that kind of blunt lies disguise as "playful! fun even!!" fanon and let it slip and damage Nika and Respawn's character!?!?? And let that MISOGYNY energy towards Nika fly into fanfic further misconception both of their character and personalities?!??? Similar things that had happened to Talia being constantly demonized through racism and misogyny by fanon?!?!?? A reappear theme by shipper/yaoi incest proshipper tools her as a bad Asian mom to make a sad and twisted background for Damian to need to be protected by the characters they ship him with?!??

Not all of the shippers/fic writers do this but still, I'm meant by the misconception fanons that spin out of control… then SOMETIMES THE ACTUAL COMICS WRITES(different ones/weird ones) WOULD MAKE IT CANON AND DAMAGE THE CHARACTERS‼️IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE‼️‼️

I know the shippers and the fandom will always be there because of the internet. And I can't control it, so I set up boundaries now by speaking up and defend my favorite characters while I still can.

You can comment under this post if you still disagree with me(unless you're a proshipper then stop interacting with me‼️), and don't hide behind anonymity before you understand what I'm talking about and don't twist my words for your own comfort.

(Again, sorry if you are not in the dc fandom and catching strays of my discomfort and anger. But I love Nika too much so I had to speak in my page)

[chicken-wayng]

Don't know if you're aware of the current fandom drama but certain fans *cough* Team Black *cough* are attacking fan-artists because they're creating AUs where Jaehaera Targaryen lives thus Aegon III doesn't marry Daenaera Velaryon.

It's honestly pathetic that they're being this petty over FICTIONAL characters, but harassing real life people is a step too far imo.

That being said, as a Rhaenicent fan what do you think of Jaehaera and Aegon III's marriage working out?

I was not aware. I try to stay away from fandom drama. I think a toxic fan (on either side or no side) spewing hate to the actors, fans and writers (cuz let's be real, they're doing what they can with a money-hungry, cash grabbing network that's cutting every corner they can. It's not great, but to send threats??? That's nasty) is WEIRD. I'll say it again for the people in the back:

No matter thy side, don't send hateful threats. Tis gross my dudes.

I think I know the fan art you're talking of and I think it's beautiful. I love AUs (obviously, according to my top post) so I think that they were not only able to come up with one but also do art for it, well that's hella cool.

Honestly, I haven't read the book since high school, so is Aegon 3 the one that has all those kids, including the old man in GoT (damn I really need to reread those but I'm so obsessed with Cobra Kai fanfiction it's not funny)? Cuz if not I'm totally blanking on who Aegon 3 is.

Sorry that didn't answer your question, but thanksya for asking it! I can say though that in my professional opinion, as long as a ship isn't pedophilic why go out of the way to hate on it? I know GoT/HoTD walks a fine line (and often go over it) but seriously even Daemyra is okay in my books. I don't like it, I can't read fics with it UNLESS it confronts her gender envy of him. I'll even admit to enjoying some Lucemond fics (there's this one really good one that talks about the smallfolk, (Luke falls, gets saved by Aemond, thwarts Blood and Cheese by taking Groceries and taking him to the street of silk and hiding) legit it was plucked from my brain and they wrote it just for me) - cuz toxic love is okay as long as we all know that it's that. Like I have Rhaenicent brain rot so badly BUT in real life, in a modern world, I'd encourage both of those mean girls to get therapy and read some feminist works. (Alicent needs to read Who Cooked the Last Super frfr) before even being in the same room as one another.

[cryinginthefkncorner]

Look, i know I’m about to kick a wasps nest, but I need to say it.

I don’t really care for fandom shipping discourse, I don’t take Sides religiously as both have good points, and ultimately I’m just anti-censorship…

…but that doesn’t mean I think the pro side is all right and the anti side is all wrong

Both sides harass the shit out of each other, both sides extremists are bad and need to go touch grass

But y’all also need nuance in these discussions your having

Because let me tell you, as someone who was groomed by multiple predators (one would go on to abuse me Irl for 7 years of my life btw, starting when I was a tween) because of fandom, the pro side of the debate has made it quite clear that they don’t actually care to understand the ramifications of the type of abuse I went through, or to actually listen to survivors of CSA who’s abuse occurred through fandom.

The pro side will be quick to point fingers at adults of kids in fandom, but the adults in charge of me were told by therapists I was seeing at the time that I was “being a normal tween” for believing I wanted to be in a relationship with an adult at 13/14. That I was “over dramatic and should be responsible for what happened” at the hands of this adult when I disclosed the first time about the abuse. I also got in trouble for the evidence of the grooming that was found by my parents, instead of them realizing I was being targeted by a creep.

Part of this was because I was a lonely, bullied, and ostracized kid.

It’s almost like sexual predators bank on adults failing to act and blaming young girls for the abuse. It’s almost like they’re right when they tell young girls that no one will believe them when they disclose. The pro side proves this too by how they justify their romanticization by pointing fingers at parents “not parenting kids” as if they can never do anything wrong, or miss the signs.

My parents missed the signs because they assumed a teenager (who was 17-18 when he started abusing 13 year old me) could not be a pedophile. They were happy their daughter “had finally found someone to talk to” because my own peers hated me and bullied me every chance they got at that age. To the point where I was actively suicidal for years.

All of this grooming happened because I dared to interact with the MLP fandom at 13. And trust me that fandom was filled with pedos at the peak of its popularity. Like I said multiple full grown men groomed and RPG’d in a sexual way with me, even after I disclosed my age. Because I dared to like pastel colored pony’s and I wrote some (PG-13) fanfic, and drew some fanart.

And trust me, I saw the romanticization of my own abuse in that fandom, and seeing it being defended still is disconcerting.

Like, an actual survivor saying “hey, please don’t portray the abuse that ruined my fucking life as a good thing please” shouldn’t make y’all so fucking mad. But it does. And it’s fucking weird.

I’m not going to name call or anything, won’t even tell you what you can or can’t post but just know I’m one of those people where if you are posting that crap and I stumble upon it, or are vocally defending your right to romanticize it, that I’m silently judging you.

And I’m just going to block you if you try to defend it on this post.

I’d say that if you want to avoid drama maybe just get a fucking sensitivity reader if your discussing CSA, and aren’t trying to romanticize it. But apparently sensitivity readers are just “enforcing censorship” or whatever so I know I’m just talking to the equivalent of a brick wall.

Before you bring up not reading this stuff- I don’t, I’m just kinda sick of a real problem in fandom being dismissed and victims being blamed for their abuse

Before you bring up Lolita as a “gotcha” defense- I have reading comprehension abilities, evidenced by how I have a minor in creative writing (which btw involves a metric fuck-ton of reading and discerning meaning and intentions of the author from those readings) Lolita was not defending predators, it’s meaning was twisted by people who want to defend grooming and csa, and since I can tell the difference between condemnation and romanticization, I’m sure a lot of people who share my opinions also can as well. Not everyone with “anti” opinions is uneducated like you think they are, some of us are just expressing why we have limits and why we find certain portrayal distasteful. If you think I’m still wrong i reccomend going back and reading the prologue in Lolita that you obviously skipped.

Before you say I’m advocating for censorship- I’m not, I’m just saying you don’t get to shout at abuse victims who were affected through fandom to shut up. Write insensitive portrayals of traumatizing shit, and then get upset when someone tells you your portrayal is making the traumatizing shit look like it’s a-okay. If you post something on this vein be prepared for someone to say that what you wrote is portraying harmful stereotypes (ie that CSA isn’t harmful if an often repeated myth, it’s akin to saying rape victims were “asking for it” because they were drunk).

Also I’ve never harassed anyone about this in my life, in fact the people who defend romanticization of my abuse are usually just blocked on site, because I just don’t want to deal with the shit-stirring that occurs.

And finally for those who think this is me being against harm reduction- I’m not against harm reduction, maybe these thing are harm reduction for awhile, but eventually, just like alcohol or painkillers, these little fanfic stories aren’t going to be enough for would-be predators forever. They will build up a tolerance where imagination and text isn’t enough anymore, and that’s when they start to actually do the real illegal shit.

If you have reading comprehension you’ll realize I’m am not saying fiction=reality, but to spell it out more clearly, the fiction isn’t making them offend, the inability for the fiction to be enough to get them off is what leads them to offend. It’s like someone who can’t get oxy turning to heroin out of desperation.

When the harm reduction doesn’t work anymore, is it really reducing harm, especially when the stuff they now turn to is the illegal stuff they were supposedly trying to “avoid” in the first place.

Anyway, that’s my thoughts on this shit, I’m tired of seeing it debated or people with the same trauma being told to shut up because the truth is inconvenient. I needed to just get it out.

Anyone who openly defends this crap in the notes or reblogs will be blocked.

[roadhogsbigbelly]

newsflash: people reblog objectively correct posts without knowing the CROSS SITE DISCOURSE of OP all the time. she didn’t fucking know who op was until people told her (which you can do if you care, instead of calling someone a pedo supporter behind her back). she has been vocal about not supporting rape or pedophilia, and yet your dumbass posts are talking about her linking ‘’’loliporn’’’ to being queer for literally no reason aside from one reblog that lacked context. everyone has blind spots, yet for this single one of hers, one that she has clarified her stance on over and over, you say all this about her supporting whatever sex crime feels easiest to accuse her of! the least you can do is apologize

even if she didn't reblog from an actual pedophile i still would made fun of her for agreeing with a post that said "you're a fake queer if you don't support incest fantasies" cause even if that's not morally abhorrent that's a still a fucking stupid thing to say. i never even straight up called her a pedophile i said she "thought loliporn was queer expression" which was just a roundabout way of saying "she reblogged and added on to a post that said "don't say your pro kink if you don't support ageplay, , or incest fantasies" but apparently there's a such a wild difference between "loliporn" and "age play and incest fantasies" that she views the former as such a wild condemnation but the latter is perfectly harmless and not even worth caring about.

like again even if the original post she reblogged wasn't written by an actual pedophile i would of still made fun of her (while keeping censoring her name which i did but that didn't seem to work i guess) for it because it's a bad fucking post. i made fun of it actually way before i even saw her stupid stardew valley post. i made a post talking about how it's perfectly fine to have standards between "weird kinks that are perfectly fine that you should probably ignore" and "weird kinks that are actually potentially harmful" because i think not having any standards with "people's fantasies" as if they inherently exist in a vacuum in really dumb! and bad!

but i think i do need to stress that i did not know she was a trans woman when i made my post, and in fact i have made similar posts about people who were cis women or cis men or trans men or non binary, people of all genders and sexualities, that had bad opinions on incest kink. there was this pretty popular cis gay bara artist who drew alot of incest porn and porn of underaged male characters (but "aged up") and it honestly made me uncomfortable but i kind of bit my tongue because they were popular and i didn't want to rock the boat, and than later they got called for having a sideblog where they drew actually straight up toddler porn and than i didn't feel so bad about being suspicious.

so bascially i do not think she's a pedophile, i never thought she was a pedophile, i made a post vagueing her for having a bizzare take on a video game while thinking that "loliporn" was something worth defending because she reblogged and agreed with a post saying "don't say you love kinks and sex freaks if you aren't supportive of actual sex freaks who enjoy ageplay, and incest shipping" and i assumed loliporn was included in that, because why wouldn't it be, it's "fictional age play" if she doesn't think loliporn is good that's great but weird with her reblogging and agreeing with said post, but basically no i don't think she's a pedophile. i think she just has a really bad opinions. if she thinks actual pedophilia is bad that's wonderful great, noble peace prize, but if she still think "incest and ageplay fantasies" are "above criticism" because some queer people have them. uh no i disagree, i don't think she's a "bad person" for having them but uh. not that's really dumb