#i really went into a a long discussion here about female portrayal in fiction

[ramblingguy54]

Re Mabel, Lilith and Marcy getting flak— I wonder if it has to do with what seems to be a general aversion to female characters acting selfishly, especially if it has consequences. Like, I feel that's a huge part of why the live action Disney remakes fall so flat; women/girls *all* have to be "strong female character who never does anything selfish or wrong". So instead of being seen as what they are (great characters with strong arcs) Mabel, Marcy and Lilith get, as you said, demonized.

Disney remakes I'd say do contribute to the issue of how those interpret other female character depicted in a more flawed manner as simply selfish people and nothing more. However, that's simply a drop in the bucket being apart of a much larger issue of how female characters are depicted throughout stories. This isn't just a problem to be found in other Disney related material, such as their remakes portraying their iconic female leads, rather it's one rooted in shallow writing as early when the whole mantra, "Girl power!", became a an unfortunate trope some stories still utilize to this very day. Female characters aren't allowed to show weakness whatsoever. They've gotta be strong, unwavering, and perfect role models to follow, right?

See, therein lies a serious contradiction. It's not about gender whether you're male, female, or choosing to be both, depending on your lifestyle. They're all people and what do we undeniably share as a trait? Something binding us together symbolically?

Weaknesses. We’re all vulnerable, carry baggage, and even are capable of doing selfish stuff hurting people when we didn’t intend to. People follow what they believe in their convictions to be “correct” from developed ideologies. Buckets of grey, more or less.

Let me throw an example out here. Belle from Disney’s 2D animated iteration of Beauty & The Beast showed what a strong female lead can be capable of. She took none of Gaston’s shallow nonsense, was conflicted about her place in their judgmental village, and most importantly didn’t see Beast’s humanity, until being saved from the wolf pack attack. Belle was a role model who was strong, capable, and intelligent, yet didn’t rely on shallow ideas I mentioned above.

A consistent issue I’ve tend to notice is people zeroing in on a characters actions, rather than observing why they went about committing them, or simply ignoring outside forces, like other characters, playing a role in, too?

Mabel’s selfish desires caused Weirdmageddon!

Marcy’s fear of being alone got them all stranded in Amphibia!

Lilith is responsible for Eda’s pain and suffering with this curse!

Mabel being solely responsible for Weirdmageddon is a take I’ve seen people throw around leaving me absolutely puzzled by this mind set. How is it the girl’s fault when Dipper & Ford decided to keep that orb containing a dimensional rift Bill needed their little secret? Those two made a choice to keep something under wraps for their own reasons, which came back to bite them pretty damn hard. Mabel was terrified of the future, growing up, drifting away from her brother, and most importantly was scared of becoming bitter about it all. There’s a reason why Mabel stated to Dipper in A Tale Of Two Stans, “Can you promise me you won’t get stupid...?”, given it was foreshadowing her inevitable breakdown of trying to run away from these issues.

Bill Cipher took advantage of an emotionally desperate kid’s need for an uncompromising happy ending is what it all boils down to. Mabel’s only morally questionable action was not wanting to accept their reality, which Dipper had to snap her out of this self destructive behavior. Hiding away in some imaginative place doesn’t fix the problems you’ve got in front of yourself. They’ll only grow bigger. An important rule of life is allowing change to happen, but it’s equally so to remember how crucial a stable family connection is, too. Dipper leaving Mabel to struggle alone in life wouldn’t have been an ideal scenario for either of them. Something I’ve seen people seem to forget is after Dipper helps Mabel become content they think she’s getting her way, while he is giving up his dream. Yet, for some reason, people forget this small important exchange between the two.

“Hey, Dipper. I appreciate what you said back there, but, if you want to take Ford’s apprenticeship, I won’t get in your way.”

“And miss out on your awkward teen years? You wish!”

Mabel gave Dipper a third option to pursue his goals, if he genuinely wanted this dream of working underneath that author of those journals the kid was crazy about. However, Dipper saw Mabel, as well as the message of family ties, more important than anything else, even working underneath Ford. To Dipper, Mabel’s sibling bond was his greatest dream to fulfill. While Mabel may not be a character I gravitate towards, as Dipper is someone I relate to a lot more, she did experience a journey of emotional growth in learning to understand Dipper’s needs are just as important as her’s. The sock puppet episode encapsulated this idea of her developing maturity.

Marcy Wu’s entire arc in Season 2 was very interesting to see play out. There’s a defining difference in how Marcy’s a lot more independent, than she used to be when Anne watched over her at their school. While she still can be clumsy, Marcy has become very physically competent in taking on riskier situations demanding precise accuracy. Although, there’s a definite lingering fear of solitude when Anne was going to let the Plantars leave her behind in Newtopia. True Colors’ revelations completely add a new layer to it.

Knowing now Marcy didn’t want to be alone without Anne & Sasha re-contextualizes this moment of remorse from her. Sure, she’s sad to see the Plantars go too because the girl is also fond of them, much like Anne. However, another thing I’d say it’s because she didn’t want to see Anne leave, naturally. In spite of these conflicting feelings, Marcy reluctantly lets her return to Wartwood not only considering she knew they’d meet up again, but maybe it could be out of possible guilt for playing a part in manipulating Anne & Sasha into taking the Calamity Box. I wouldn’t put it past Marcy if this was part of her reasoning. After all, she was quick in trying to make amends, by saving Sprig from dropping to his death and sending Anne back home to protect her from Andrias’ wrath. Whatever thing Marcy could do to show her compassion she would gladly do.

If the theory of Marcy having a rocky relationship with her parents is confirmed in Season 3, I’m theorizing it’s more against her father than mother, it puts another weight of tragedy onto why she trusted Andrias so much with spilling her heart out to him. Marcy thought she’d finally found an adult, who wouldn’t undermine her beliefs, personality, and actions. Marcy didn’t view Andrias just as a friend, rather a father figure she felt comfortable venting her emotional issues toward. Andrias saw this kid with low self esteem issues thinking, “Yeah, she’ll be a perfect pawn to use and throw away when I get what I need.”, making Marcy Wu arguably the most tragic character in this trio of people used as a tool by a greater evil.

Marcy never intended to hurt Anne or Sasha. She only wanted to live a life free of pain, which her dream was mangled severely by Andria’s ambition for multiverse conquest. This girl was someone who wanted everything in their world. Marcy didn’t know the box would accurately work, even if she did use her friends in a highly morally wrong fashion. Although, the kid read about this box in a book, so Marcy did have an idea being somewhat aware what she was getting herself into. At least, more so than Anne & Sasha were, who thought it was a silly looking item to steal from a thrift shop.

Seeing everything fall apart for Marcy, as her friends back away from this haunting realization, is easily on my list of top crushing moments from the series. It rivals that of Sasha willing to fall to her death to save Anne’s in exchange. There’s such a poetic gut punch in bringing it full circle for Marcy. She wanted everlasting friendship, but now Marcy’s decision caused them to step away from her. In terms of lighting, I love the dramatic nuance of having a shadow cast over her. Marcy stands alone by herself to stir in emotional grief. No one there is gonna comfort Marcy, preferring to let their silence speak loudly. 

Marcy Wu desired to have her cake and eat it, too. The poor kid lost her friends, trust in Andrias, and her own life, in spite of it being temporary, trying to make amends for all this guilt. She wished so badly to have freedom to choose, only to have none at all in the end. The moral of this story is be careful what you wish for.

Lilith’s whole issue she struggles to overcome is realizing how flawed and corrupt the Emperor’s Coven is, as well as the idea of Covens’ in general. Lilith’s mentality was all about order, control, and obligation to a greater magical cause. What added depth to Lilith’s character is her connection to Eda wasn’t an obligation of some kind. She loved being there for her sister determined to do anything to undo the curse Lilith placed upon Eda in their childhood. Belos saw a prime opportunity through Lilith to use her sister as leverage, so she wouldn’t compromise that oath to the Coven for Eda’s safety. Any episode focusing screen time on their dynamic you can sense the love and respect Lilith has toward Eda, regardless of their differing views on how magic operates. She still cares for her.

The tragic twist of Lilith being responsible for Eda’s curse shows the circumstances of their sisterhood being challenged by this very world they live in. Lilith only went through with cursing Eda because of Belos’ mentality about winning by any means necessary to justify the end result. It’s exactly why Lilith wanted Eda to join her Coven to heal this curse and make her abide by the laws she believes in, killing two birds with one stone. Lilith being bitter about Eda’s skills surpassing her own for that magical competition certainly played a part.

It’s made more than evident in their climatic confrontation in Agony of a Witch. Eda calls out Lilith’s incompetence, as their exchanging blows in finding it hilariously ironic she can’t be beaten at her worst. Lilith, having enough of being criticized, spills the beans about how it was so easy to curse her. Again, Lilith was only speaking out of bitter rage when she blurted the truth. She never took an ounce of enjoyment in hurting her sister, as you can clearly see the immediate regret and hurt written across this woman’s face. This isn’t the face of someone who relishes in their sibling’s suffering. It’s the face of somebody that has made a terrible mistake. A mistake Lilith never wanted Eda to find out about wanting to sweep it under the rug. To know your sibling has placed a curse on you in the most awful fashion would anger any person in that unfortunate position.

Lilith wanted to make amends, but the damage was already done. There wasn’t a chance Eda would hear out her sister’s pleas after dropping a bombshell of this magnitude. Eda had enough of Lilith preaching about order for the greater good when she pulled a toxic double standard putting something chaotic upon her. To have a curse placed, which can transform anyone into a mindless creature, endangering everyone you care about stings all the more to know it was her sister. It wasn’t someone with an evil master plan, like Belos. This culprit was someone Eda placed her trust into, since childhood. Who’d be there to the share that pain of scraping her knee had the gull to put her through this kind of Hell. The sad truth is, Lilith didn’t want any of this to occur. That curse was only meant to last a day and Eda wouldn’t have any more problems. A worst case scenario of something minor transforming into a larger issue.

It’s a disturbing reality check for Lilith when Belos, being the clever manipulator, uses the very knowledge she valued against her in justifying petrifying Eda. This flips everything Lilith held dear in her own values upside down. What she thought was “correct” for years only badly affected their world and citizens. Belos undermining her hopes for Eda’s cure defining it all under their Titan’s will to dispose of anyone, who doesn’t follow their rules, paints a genocidal picture to what Lilith viewed through rose tinted glasses. She wasn’t supporting an individual of equality, but one of a power hungry dictatorship. Belos was going to slaughter all people or any living sentient creature that stood in his way.

While I wouldn’t call Lilith’s arc great, as Season 1 did suffer from Disney executive meddling with Dana’s vision of the series, it was certainly a good one, overall. There’s a real weight and somber symbolism to Lilith being a product of a flawed magical system. Season 2 could easily explore more of her redemption because denouncing your beliefs after holding them stubbornly to your heart isn’t an easy thing to process mentally. Lilith devoted herself to that idealism for so very long, where you don’t just move on from all that with a flick of a switch, so I’m very interested in seeing what Dana and her crew will accomplish next for Lilith’s development. They could easily very well remedy problems in pacing I had with Season 1.

To sum up this very lengthy answer of mine, please keep writing more complex female characters. Break the boundaries of stereotypes that women shouldn’t show vulnerability. It makes for a more introspective story, instead of conforming to stories following a silly status quo for women in fiction.