#i really love sonic as a character cuz he's so silly but when he's angry he's unstoppable i love that for him

[iwasbored777]

This is the same guy

[egg-emperor]

I can vividly see Eggman pulling the "you're no daughter of mine" line against Sage if she did something that displeased him or if she failed him one too many times. That's what people aren't picking up on how canonical Eggdaddy works: it's extremely conditional and based entirely on selfish motivations. He likes Sage BECAUSE she's actually competent and effective at doing what he built her to do. He sees himself as her father BECAUSE it makes him feel better about himself to feel like he created life that is superior to natural reproduction. He is proud of her BECAUSE of how she reflects upon himself as her genius creator. And if any of those things stopped being true, if she starts slipping or if he makes something newer and better, then paternal bonds also go out the window. Both because he really would be willing to sever all ties at the drop of a hat, and also because it'd make Sage feel like she has to work twice as hard to try and earn his approval back.

It's all there in the text. This isn't stuff we're just making up lol. It's fine to make up your own fun little ideas, even if I personally chafe at acanonical depictions of the characters people are still more than within their rights to portray them however they want. But this denial about the way the nature of their relationship is portrayed IN THE GAME in the (few) cutscenes he has and in the Egg Memos, is just kind of silly. Ian Flynn literally said himself "you WANT to feel happy for Eggman cuz love is a good thing, but it's coming from this extremely dark place of Dr Frankenstein being happy about his monster." Regardless of what people WANT Eggdaddy to be, the intended interpretation could not be more black and white.

YES THANK YOU. I've brought it up elsewhere but not here yet but one of the biggest things that I can't emphasize enough is that Eggman didn't change and develop into a better person at all in the game and that's not what was happening in the forming of Eggman and Sage's bond. There's a reason Ian Flynn is still emphasizing that he's a "BAD person" and warmed up to the idea of the father daughter dynamic "for all of the wrong reasons"

Eggman's usual personality and outlook are actually the very reasons WHY he even accepted the dynamic and values Sage at all- it's all down to his self-centeredness, selfishness, and ego. The Egg Memos literally had him say it word for word with him saying she's great because she's loyal and efficient, because her father is a genius, and because he made her in an impressive unique way with code and electrons like a true genius too.

It couldn't be any more blatantly clear than in this memo. It's literally just "me me me" all the way through. She is an extension of himself as his creation and a reflection of his genius with her existence and abilities for him to take pride in, and she's loyal and useful to him so he can value her for something and take pride in it when she accomplishes in that too. It's all about himself and what's in it for him, like always.

They're literally the specific circumstances he praises her for anything in the game. To the point he can yell at her for doing something he doesn't want one second and praising her highly and saying he's proud of her the next for doing something he does want.

It happens in the scene where he's furious with her for suggesting teaming up with Sonic but she saves him in the next and suddenly he's all like "wow you surpassed expectations I'm so proud"

It's crazy how you can get the second scene to play IMMEDIATELY after the first, I got it in my second playthrough. It creates a parallel to the Eggman and Gamma scene in Adventure.

Right after raging at them and calling them all dummies, when he finds that one of them did get the right frog then he immediately changes his tune, praises him highly, and pretends he knew he'd be of use to him

It's literally the same vibes with Sage lol

And he can just go right back to being angry when she does something he doesn't like, like when she tried to urge him to get back into Cyber Space and team up with Sonic again and he keeps snapping at her.

If that's not conditional and selfish as FUCK then I really don't know what is lol

I see people question why he hasn't scrapped her yet like he would much quicker with other creations but why would he? She can make him angry but she still has potential, he can take pride in her, and he needs her in those times to protect him, try to fight Sonic and gather information for him. Plus she is loyal and when she goes against his exact orders it's still only with his best interests in mind.

And who's to say he wouldn't have reacted in worse ways towards her if he wasn't in a situation where he was reliant on her? We might not even get to find out as he's likely to restore her back to her original red self without all the development she went through only thanks to Sonic and friends- makes sense as he'll want to keep total control because he still only values her for what she was actually created for.

How quickly he can switch from being mad at her to praising her highly when she does something he wants really gives the impression that he's buttering her up to keep her loyal, which he clearly values most. He's smart and cunning, he knows what he's doing and he's always thinking about what's in it for him- so I'm certain it's what he's doing. And it's definitely fact that it's very conditional.

But if she does start slipping and fail to meet expectations, fail him, no longer be of use to him in comparison to a newer creation, etc and he loses the two main qualities that he praises her for, her loyalty and efficiency + his pride in her as his creator as a result, then what's left? I can see him dropping the act immediately and making a deep cut with harsh words like her being no daughter of his because she doesn't reflect his brilliance and genius anymore.

Eggman is saying what he knows Sage wants to hear. He may accept her as his daughter and Orbot and Cubot as being like her siblings because it also makes her happy- and it all keeps her loyal and with the drive to succeed. It's just like how he explained that he designs robots with sentience in The Murder of Sonic, to take advantage of it for selfish benefit as it gives them more of a drive to serve him.

And yeah while it makes me uncomfortable as fuck and makes going into her tags feel like walking into a line of fire on a battlefield unarmed and makes me come out covered in blood lol- people are allowed to do what they want in their fan works. But the way people take issue with us for seeing what it really is in the game and being so vile and aggressive over those who portray it that way is ridiculous.

What you really have in game is Eggman's side being shallow and self centered and conditional as fuck. Sage's flashback montage especially shows that super wholesome family bonding didn't happen. The nicest thing he did was say he's proud of her- for doing what he wants. But any time she doesn't, he thumps things and yells at her. He also cares so much about her fulfilling her original function that he let her go and sacrifice herself to save him.

Much wholesome. Very pure. Happy family.

I really like Ian Flynn's summary and I wish I could shove it in everyone's face a million times over until they finally get it and stop denying that it isn't as wholesome and sweet and especially not deeply heartfelt and selfless on Eggman's side in the actual game. And what he said was right and it's because they want to be happy about it, they want it to come from a genuinely pure place but it just doesn't.

What was intended was so much more interesting to me over how it was sanitized and changed so heavily in fanon and I wish I could analyze it for what it actually is and create based on that without getting shit for it. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of their official dynamic in the main game canon especially. But the small glimpse at them in The Murder of Sonic and in Minecraft is a good sign!

I really like how it's handled in canon because Eggman's massive ego affects literally everything he does like interactions, behaviors, motives, goals, outlook on life, etc, it'd make no sense for his relationships like familial bonds to be a sudden exception. It wasn't with Maria and not even Gerald. In fact his ego and selfishness are the reasons WHY he accepts the dynamic with Sage in the end and that's great!