#i prefer writing him juxtaposed to Harry

[1dcraftawards]

November Author of the Month...

Drumroll please.... our November Author of the Month is none other than the incredibly talented...

@all-things-fic ! 

Congratulations to a wonderful author, Liz! You can check out our interview with her below!

1.Did you start writing fanfiction for One Direction, or was there another fandom that you wrote fanfiction for before this?

I have one fic that I wrote for One Direction Fanfic Archive, that will never see the light of day. It was really awful, but everyone starts somewhere. I’ve shared it with two people on Tumblr and we just laughed about it.

I’ve also written a Niall Horan fic which has been flagged for how explicit it is, which is quite laughable as it’s tame in comparison to the Harry stuff (eek!)

2. How old were you when you started writing fanfiction?

I was a teenager when I first started writing fics. I don’t know if I would consider it “proper” fanfic though as it was riddled with cliches.

3. What’s been your favorite fic that you’ve written to work on so far?

For the longest time I was proud of the second part of Divorce Harry and specifically the second part. It just felt real to write. I can’t even explain what it is about that piece.

I think at the time it stemmed from an ask I received where I was asked if I was a parent - I’m not - but this someone said I portrayed aspects of a marriage and how children can tip the balance really well.

The sheer bitterness of two people in love and the juxtaposed feeling it brings was an interesting dynamic. Being bitter and in love? How? It happens. You love someone, but bloody hell don’t you hate at the same time.

And I think on the hand Quarantine Harry is the opposite side of the same coin. I love it because it’s so happy. When you’re smitten and basking. Your baby waking you up at 3am and meeting your husband on the landing with the freshly made bottle is a time to enjoy because you’re doing it together.

But soon enough the third child is sprawled out in your kingsize bed and their foot is pressed against your ribs and you're tired. This isn’t me saying the two stories are linked (I do get those theories quite a lot haha)

4. Do you prefer AU or OU?

Definitely more of an OU gal. I’m massively into writing things “realistically” because I think it’s so relatable and helps draw readers in more so. Especially if the writing uses and references visuals that readers are aware of.

5. What’s your favorite trope to write?

Would we call a long-term relationship / established relationship a trope? If so then this is my favourite. Writing characters who know how to push each other’s buttons, knowing what they can and can’t say to get the other going. Being able to write two people who can share as little as a glance and know what the other is feeling.

Sprinkle a bit of angst on the top for good measure.

That’s my kryptonite.

6. What’s your ideal space to write in?

I tend to write when I’m in bed quite a bit, usually really late at night and on my phone rather than my laptop. Often lying in the dark. Sometimes first thing in a morning.

7. How do you get motivation to write?

This one made me laugh considering I’m unable to finish a single piece of writing at the minute.

Pictures are quite inspiring. New images of Harry can usually start something in me. The images of him in the whacky joggers for example from set have inspired a scene in Quarantine Harry (who knows for which part just yet!).

8. Do you typically like to listen to music when you write? If so, what do you listen to?

Very rarely listen to anything when I write, I tend to like silence really. Sometimes this is so I can dictate into my phone.

9. Your dialogue is some of the best I’ve ever read on tumblr, how do you plan conversations in your fics?

Thank you for the compliment, it’s really nice to read that you think so highly of my dialogue. I don’t really plan them - conversations or my fics. I’m quite visual in how I write, so anything that you’ve read I’ve most likely had it play out in my mind and typed it as it’s moved. For dialogue I tend to speak out loud as I’m typing to try and get the pacing right for the conversation.

No, I don’t try to do a Manc accent… Just in case anyone is wondering haha!

10. What is your writing process like?

I write what I see and then hope it fits. Honestly it’s pretty chaotic. The only time I tend to plan is when I’ve got a lot of different scenes written and I need to know if they’re suitable for an update or what order to place them.

Then I read through them and think about the characters and how they would be a certain time and move the documents into another document. Then I close all the tabs and cry cause my motivation is nonexistent.

11. What’s been your favorite scene to write from Quarantine Harry?

One that hasn’t been shared haha! I’m joking (maybe).

From part one my favourite bit has to be the part where she makes up with him by taking him a cuppa and he gets a dig in about how she hasn’t brought any biscuits with her. Also the bit where he says “come an’ love me” meaning he wants to cuddle. I’m quite conscious I don’t really ever write soppy fics, so when I’m writing “fluffy” aspects they’re more so everyday affections. Like, you know someone is properly in love with you when they’re doing the washing up cause you’re busy, or they’re taking out the bins on bin day. That kinda thing.

From part two absolutely the entirety of the morning where she takes the pregnancy test. That was the part I had as clear as day and I worked backwards to the opening scene. I really loved the idea of Harry knowing his partner is pregnant before said partner knows. Him knowing his lovers body like the back of his hand so much so that he’s able to pick up on the smallest of things.  I knew I had to write it.

And how he casually suggested she took the test, by pressing a kiss into her back. His face finding that test and then being an insufferable sod and pleased with himself cause he’s in the know about the outcome before the MC.

12. Is there a schedule you follow in terms of when you write? Or are you more impulsive and just write where and when you can?

So impulsive it’s actually embarrassing. I cringe at myself. I know I’ve mentioned this loads but I really write what I see. So if I’m not seeing anything, I’m not writing. It’s quite frustrating.

13. What is one thing you wish you would’ve known before you started writing?

To not talk about your writing before you’ve finished it. I feel like I massively let people down when I post sneak peeks and then I can’t deliver because life gets on top of me!

14. What do you prefer writing, multi-chaptered fics or one shots?

One shots and then if they develop into something more that can be exciting!

15. What's your secret to portraying such a complex and interesting relationship between your main characters??

Personal trauma…… *tumbleweed at another one of my poorly thought out jokes*

I’m a bit stumped on how to answer this one. I think being well read(ish) helps you create complex characters and relationships, not saying that I am but I’ve read a fair few books. Life in general helps too, sometimes personal relationships. Just growing up. My fic when I was younger was nowhere near the type of things I’m writing now but I’ve got a couple (okay, more than a couple!) of years on myself since then.

I think just apply your own lived experiences and call upon emotions you may have felt through certain times that you’re writing should you have experience it.

Partly I also think so many of us are a little bit nosy. Sometimes we all kinda want to be the fly on the wall in the home of couples to see if everything is a rosy as it seems or as intimate. Or whether it is just raw passion with a couple of arguments thrown in for good measure.

16. What Harry era/mood/look/vibe/song/etc. do you get most inspired by?

What’s weird is my favourite era of Harry is 2014, but I wouldn’t want to write him like that. The current Harry is quite marvellous. I’ve never known anyone like him, he really is fine wine (the real album title…. ‘we’ll be a fine wine’)

If you’re asking what mood I like to see him in, it’s either when he's pensive and looks a touch pissed off with a crease to his brow or when you watch his joke his eyes before he’s even said it and he’s amused/pleased with himself.

His current look, mainly late 2019/2020 is quite something (hence the quarantine fics)

I tend not to get inspired by his songs but my two faves if I had to pick would be Woman and TBSL. I think they’re massive Scorpio energy and would make great premises for a one shot sometime!

I’m not sure if I even answered this how you wanted it answer but hopefully it was something haha!

17. Who or what inspired you to start writing?

I’ve always loved writing, I think it’s because I do a lot of it with my line of work. The person that gave me the push on this site was actually an account called @meetyourmouths. The lovely Iz is no longer on tumblr but she wrote a Harry piece that just made me think ‘fuck it’ and I posted Practicing. If you go to that piece the authors note makes mention to Iz.

I would also say @stylishmuser was one of the first people to reach out to me and be encouraging which has always stuck with me. Massive love for, P and still talk to her all these years on.

I’m now sat here thinking about listing all the lovely lovely people who have been so nice to me both in regards to writing and outside of it and I’m conscious I’m not mentioning them. The troubles of being a bit of a people pleaser. Hopefully those people know I love ‘em… You know?

18. Some readers are wary of leaving feedback because they're unsure how the writer will take it, how do you personally like to receive feedback? Do you want to be critiqued, or would you like to just know if they did or didn't enjoy what they've read?

First thing I’d say is please don’t ever think as readers you can’t be negative. Sure there is a way to present the feedback to the author cause writing can be quite personal, but everyone has room for growth.

Just come chat to me. Can be about anything and everything. A simple ‘loved the update’ to ‘this bit was rubbish’. I’m open to all feedback.

One thing to remember is there are a lot of writers out there so there is something for everybody. If a fic isn’t for you there are tons out there waiting for you to go and grab ‘em!

19. Is writing a hobby or do you have aspirations of writing professionally outside of fanfiction?

I used to think it was mainly more so a hobby, and I do still lean towards this. However, now I’m not so sure. My problem is I tend to have long spells of not being able to find balance in my ‘real life’ job and the extra-curricular stuff.

I’m dragging myself here but I don’t think my fics have much plot to them. I’m more so about writing the everyday life and I don’t think there is a market for that really (unless you have something explosive happen somewhere).

20. And finally, What's your purpose for writing? What do you hope to accomplish?

For a while I wanted to write Harry being insufferably British. I found it quite hard to find writings that I thought wrote him using Britsh-isms (is this even a thing?) and types of phrases that are common over this side of the pond. I wanted to put that out there for someone who may have once felt like me.

Mostly,  I just want to put pieces out that take people elsewhere, even if only for a couple of minutes. A lot of the world is a bleak place, if you find my little corner on tumblr and it makes you smile, that’s achieved something, hasn't it?

[dramionediscussion]

One thing that really grinds my gears about (ginger boy who I will not name so as to not summon antis) stans is their constant refusal to admit when he messes up or is acting flawed. They love to rave about how “he’s so flawed and human and relatable”, but then ANYTIME another fan pops on and gives an example of a when (ginger) wasn’t acting his best and that bothered them, antis will attack that person and blame them for “bashing” and “misunderstanding the scenario.”

They always have some kind of excuse or they point fingers at the people around him to make him look blameless and to make it seem like anyone who is criticizing his behavior are just “looking for an excuse to bash him.” They say he’s a flawed and relatable character but never give him the CHANCE to be flawed and relatable. They let Hermione, Harry, Ginny, etc. take the fall and be wrong, but can they ever do that for (ginger)? Nope.

Here’s the thing...I LIKE him. I WANT to like him and support him and root for him! But I can’t do that if his stans insist on portraying him as this untouchable god who graces everyone with his presence everytime he’s around. The same goes for (ginger x Hermione)! I’ll occasionally find myself in their tag and see fanart for it or edits or text from the books and I’m like...oh I kinda like this? It’s not bad. Not my cup of tea, but not bad! I may even save some of it! But then I see stans opening their mouths and degrading every freaking character to make (ginger) look better and basically give him the same treatment that the early fandom gave Hermione.

Personally, I think character worship is just as bad as bashing. You pretty much erase everything about the character and turn them into this caricature of their former selves. Bashers (genuine bashers, not just people who criticize behavior) take flaws of the character and inflate them to turn the character into a much much worse version of themselves. Worshippers take flaws and suppress them until the character is basically a Mary Sue. BOTH of these things destroy a character and ruin their potential. Do I think the fandom tends to lean a bit more toward bashing for (ginger) and worshipping for Hermione? Early on, yes. But we’ve grown and learned that that isn’t always the right mindset to have. Things are starting to level out! Which is why I can’t stand seeing the scales beginning to tip again!

I went back-and-forth about posting this, tbh. I want to remind our followers that we’re not necessarily here to “vent” because there’s a fine line between venting and hating on characters/people/authors ourselves--and mostly a fine line between letting one person vent and that snowballing into people responding with their own venting which snowballs into mean things said. What this blog is supposed to be is an opportunity to discuss maybe a fanfiction you didn’t quite get, or to fancast, or to talk about why you think a main ship character should be portrayed a certain way. I don’t want to put a fine point on it because this is Dramione Discussion and so that implies an openness of subject, but I just want to make sure that we collectively understand what’s happening here.

Why I’m choosing to post it is because I think you present an interesting argument about character bashing/worship in general, so I want to reorient this discussion to point out some general things we’re seeing in the fandom (and which have been discussed on this blog lately).

I agree with you that extreme reaction to a character--whether bashing or worshipping--is going to limit the character. Additionally, part of what I like about fanfiction is that you can do that. I don’t like a Mary Sue Hermione, but some people do, I’m sure, or else she would never get written that way. What I’ve enjoyed about watching the fandom over the 18/19 years I’ve been reading fanfiction is watching us all grow. You can kind of tell when it’s a 15-yo that wrote the story--there are limits to how successful the author can be in portraying multi-dimensional characters in complex situations, because they just don’t have the experience to portray it accurately. But as we have aged and learned more about life, we’ve built a large, complex fandom with a variety of interesting stories about all kinds of things. In my youth, I could never imagine a story about Hermione and Draco being parents because that was just too far out of my understanding to relate. Nowadays, a story like The Request is right up my alley, not because I have children, but because I have friends who are widowed and have kids and are getting remarried, and that story has become more relatable. Alternatively, when I went through my last breakup, a story like The Request was too realistic for me to handle and I turned to cleotheo for something to just get me feeling normal again in much the same way others turn towards Hallmark movies. Each story/author has its own purpose for me as an individual, and I think a purpose for the fandom as a whole.

I feel that way about characters, too. As someone who studied literature in college, I’ll tell you that a story needs a villain and a tragedy needs comedic relief. Neither of those characters are likely to get much development. A good way to juxtapose this is to talk about Dumbledore and how he went from being this paternal, all-knowing, good guy, to being a very complex, and sometimes hated character by many in the HP fandom. My 13 yo self reading OotP would never have imagined that Dumbledore might be a bad guy--but we’ve created such a complex story around him as a fandom over the years that now I prefer not to read about him at all in my stories. The same can be said for Voldemort--there’s a not insignificant part of the fandom out there that finds ways to redeem him regularly in their fanfiction. That’s what’s so great about fanfiction.

I say all this to say that there’s a place for the bashers, and there’s a place for the worshippers, and if you (not you, Anon, but the public) don’t like to read it, don’t read it. I appreciate that you mentioned that there’s been some Ronmione out there you might have liked, because I think a lot of people in our ship might not branch out enough. If you love to read fanfiction bashing Ron, then fine, you probably won’t love Ronmione, but there’s no reason to seek out a Ronmione lover and tell them that. Let them read in peace. Additionally, they (Ronmione authors) are going to write stories where Draco is weasel ferret, and we know there’s some canon in the book to back that up, and if they want to read Draco-bashing fanfiction, let them.

Writing about these not-real characters is a great way to reflect on our society. I’ve mentioned before that I’m, personally, not a fan of POC Hermione because I think the muggleborn aspect serves the purpose of reflecting racial bigotry we see in modern society without being on-the-nose. Additionally, hero-worship and character-bashing in fanfiction can reflect ideals or wrongs, respectively, that we see in the world onto certain characters. I think that allowing someone to read/write in peace is a great way to start extending compassion and individuality past your personal life into your social one.

-Shirlyn

[idontdohats-archive]

((Good morning, friends! I’m going to be mostly on @memoirsverse today playing catchup, but I’ll try to get to my other blogs sometime in the week!))

[gostaks]

yuletide 2019 letter is done!

(I might end up editing before assignments go out, but once they do this letter will be static)

Hello creator! Thank you for writing/creating for me this yuletide :D

My AO3 is gostaks

Brief TOC (Not linky b/c tumblr sucks)

General info

The Arcadia Project

Damar

Earthsea

Emelan

General stuff

DNW:

body horror

porn without plot—porn *with* plot is fine

mind control

canon-atypical child abuse

I'm not up to date in Earthsea! I’m cool with spoilers but I would prefer fic that doesn't require any canon knowledge beyond Tehanu (by publication order). Thanks!

If you’re not sure whether something is a dnw/it’s borderline, you can assume it’s okay. Feel free to contact me via mod but really I’m only concerned about obvious examples.

Likes:

Tone-wise, anything from fluff to darkfic is welcome. I have a soft spot for stories that juxtapose content and tone, or that are very different in tone to their source material!

Backstory or worldbuilding: I love stories about how familiar people or places came to be that way. Anything from distant past to five minutes before the story starts is absolutely welcome

Far future: I also love stories about characters many years later, or about the ways they’ve changed their world. I particularly enjoy stories about characters stepping into the roles of their mentors or being deeply changed by the power they wield.

Little details: What do characters lives look like on a micro scale? Show me powerful characters doing mundane things or the things that feel mundane to them.

alternate universes and timelines, the more out there the better!

Unconventional fanworks and interactive fiction: I love unconventional formats and IF! I would be super happy to receive either. My one caveat is that some days I’m limited in the amount of clicking and typing I can do, so it may take me a little while to actually work through your story if you don’t give me a transcript :D

How to stalk me: this is my tumblr; my ao3 is also gostaks. ‘nuff said.

Specific fandom likes + prompts

If you already have an idea you’re psyched about please write that for me! I wanna see what you think is fun to write :D  

The wordcount of each of these sections isn’t balanced, but please don’t take that as an indication that a canon isn’t wanted! I’m super psyched to read fic from any of these fandoms.

The Arcadia Project, Mishell Baker

Where to find it: The Arcadia Project is a three-book series of new adult-ish urban fantasy novels (Borderline, Phantom Pains, and Imposter Syndrome). 

If you’re looking for a fifteen-minute fandom, I’d like to formally invite you to read the preview available on goodreads, then write me a fic based on whatever you think the rest of the book might shake out to be. I suspect whatever you come up with will be interesting and possibly hilarious and it would definitely be an awesome gift to receive (tw for preview: suicidal ideation and discussion of suicide, psychiatric institutionalization, sexual assault mentioned briefly)

Likes: I initially came to the Arcadia Project for its depiction of mental illness. I fell in love with the characters, but I would very much be open to an OC-heavy story set in the same universe. I love how willing Baker is to make all of her characters abrasive, and how characters struggle on-screen with being better and kinder and healthier people and don’t always succeed. 

Prompts: 

People interacting with their echoes! Millie (& or /) Claybriar, Brand and Parisa Naderi, or any of the other echo pairs we’ve seen!

Millie and Claybriar just hanging out? Like going to see a movie or cooking or drawing together or just anything cute and mundane.

Millie trying to do something creative or trying to deal with the fact that she can’t interact with Claybriar the way normal echoes interact.

Related, normal interactions between echoes! What’s it like to go through the process of getting your Echo? What does the paperwork look like? What’s it like to be an up-and-coming film professional and then have someone drop out of the sky and tell you that not only are fairies real but you’ve got one, they’re your soulmate, and it’s very important that you Come Meet Them Right Now?

Caryl! Literally. Anything. Caryl. (And Elliot, who was originally Caryl and is thus lumped in for the sake of I Love Caryl) 

Caryl being a kid with the Project, the early years of her learning how to interact with Earth again

Early days Elliot—what was the process of creating his spell like? Is the way he existed at the beginning of the series the way he’s always looked and worked? Or was his current form and behavior the result of a lot of tweaking and experimentation?

Daemon au. Oh, come on, you know I had to ask. 

Caryl (& or /) Millie and their dysfunctional relationship, or the ways in which they can grow and change and become better for each other

Caryl’s first meetings or regular interaction with other project members, dinners at Residence 4, recruitment, anything like that

Elliot POV like… at any point. Show me what he’s thinking or feeling, or his mostly-off-screen character development as the rest of the series progresses.

Normal life on the Project. What do agents normally do when things aren’t going to shit?

Blatantly fishing for rep here but I’d love to see a character with tourettes in the Arcadia Project universe, whether that means headcanoning one of our old characters as having TS or introducing an OC. Super duper not required but it would totally make my day :D

Damar, Robin McKinley

Likes: Damar is a super nostalgic canon for me—I read the books for the first time in middle school and a lot of the way I come to these books is like super informed by that. If you give me the tropeyest trope that ever trooped I will love it :D I love the richness of detail in these books, and the way the world feels lived in—there are lots of details that allude to history we don’t see on screen. I’d love to see your take on that backstory and worldbuilding, if that’s something you’re interested in!

Prompts:

There is a vanishingly small possibility that you, writer, are interested in writing a story about orange merchants in Daria. If so, yes? Very yes?

Harry and Aerin interaction, on as epic or not-epic scale as you want. Like, visions? Both summoned through time to fight a massive threat? Going out for coffee together? 

Harry/Aerin! I have no idea how you’d make it work but yay fantasy femslash. This is probably a good candidate for an out-there au if you’re feeling that :D

stories about other people who have wielded Gonturan! 

Or show events in the books from Gonturan’s perspective. What’s it like to be a sword?

Aerin & Talat!! I love their relationship so much. They’re both so good for each other :D

Talat POV! What does he think of Aerin? How does he feel about fighting dragons and generally being heroic?

Any of Harry or Aerin’s adventures after their books end! They both wield Gonturan and protect their kingdom against magical threats, of course. I’d also love to see Harry as a diplomat, and the work that goes into creating a better relationship with the Homeland through diplomatic channels

Earthsea, Ursula K. LeGuin

Requested Character: Tenar!

Likes: I love how grounded Earthsea is. It tells stories about people, first and foremost. The magic system is epic, and there are so many stories that could be told in this world! As stated above, I’m only up to date as far as Tehanu. I’m fine with spoilers, but I might be totally lost if what you want to write relies on further books.

Prompts:

Tenar (& or /) Ged being domestic!

Ged having to learn how to do farm things over again without magic, and Tenar teaching him

Just… spending time together. Cooking or working or talking or just sharing each other’s warmth.

The aftermath of the end of Tehanu—being controlled like that must be horrible and I doubt they left unscarred. How does that affect them and Tehanu down the line?

AU where Tenar stays as Arha in Atuan. How this works out is up to you :D

Tehanu being a kid or Tehanu being a dragon or, of course, Tehanu being both a kid and a dragon. Cue hijinks.

younger!Tenar in her first few years in Earthsea! What was it like, adjusting? Living in the city? 

are there any habits she picked up in the Tombs that are hard to break, or that she’s kept for her entire life?

What’s her reaction to big crowds? Attention? Not having the time and space alone that she’s used to?

Where does Tenar have unexpected gaps in her knowledge? Like, does she know how to cook for one, or only for a whole temple? does learning how to navigate new places while seeing them make it harder?

Tell me more about women’s magic. Could a woman, given motivation, become a wizard? How does this dichotomy interact with a more complex or modern understanding of gender identity? 

Emelan, Tamora Pierce

Likes: Wow, real elementary school hours here. I first read the Circle of Magic books when 10 felt really old. The concept of ambient magic is awesome and I love how big and intricate the world always feels. I’d love to see our characters continue to grow and teach, or to see more of the world around the Pebbled Sea or beyond!

Prompts:

Main four

Future fic! What are they doing five years post-Will of the Empress. 10? 50? How have their powers developed? 

On the dark side, I’d love to see someone seriously try to get Tris and/or Briar to do war magic for them. Is it possible, with any amount of force or magic, to trap one of the discipline crew at this point? How else might they be compelled or encouraged to do what someone else wants?

Life at Discipline sometime during those four years. Lessons? Adventures? “Ugh Little Bear peed on the floor again, Briar it’s your turn to clean it up!”? I want to see what takes up their time when no one’s life is threatened.

Letters! Epistolary fic! Show me what they thought was important to share with each other while they were out in the world, and what they decided not to tell. 

Teachers

Backstory! We know a little bit about what each of their teachers’ lives were like before, but I want to see more. Show me what a day in the life of dancer!Lark or farm girl!Rosethorn was like.

What’s it like to learn magic as an adult? Is it easier or harder to learn how when you already have practical skills and a baseline of control? What’s frustrating? What’s trivial?

How do the teachers interact when the kids aren’t around? I love love love Lark/Rosethorn, but I’d also love to see more interaction between them, Niko, and Frostpine. 

Second generation students

any of the students going about their training as young mages—what’s Pasco’s life like now that he’s a Provost mage? Did Niko teach Glaki learned any interesting spells while they were on their way back to Emelan? How’s Keth’s glasswork going?

Students interacting with each other! What does Evvy think of Pasco? What would either of them think of Nia and Jory? 

Evvy as a novice! How does that work? How is the way she interacts with Winding Circle and her teachers different from before she decided to become a novice? What about from the way the discipline crew interacted with Winding Circle?

Evvy gets a cat—either pre-Street Magic (I’d love to see more of her life before she met Briar and Rosethorn) or post-Melting Stones with all the complexity there.

You know that scene that was mentioned in Will of the Empress where some subset of {Briar, Evvy, Rosethorn} met with silk weavers and learned about how codes and messages were sent through slubs in the fibers, but then we didn’t see it on screen during Battle Magic? That would be awesome to read.

[obiternihili]

I want to like ssc, but every time I go to the site to read stuff there's... something in the air that really rubs me the wrong way. And I'm not really confident in my ability to articulate it and definitely not in a way that would make ~respectable discourse~ or whatever it'd be called. Of course I'm gonna try because, ???, I'm a prick???

But it's like, not really that major anyways. Just maybe hopefully some insight to be had about people who don't like his writing style? I hope?

But like, if I tried to articulate it at all, he's too Sam Harris-y. That's something bad about EY, that's something bad about rationalists as a whole. That's something bad about para-rationalists as well, including fucking me so maybe I'm throwing stones. If you finish this, do please keep in mind that my opening paragraph is admitting that I don't really read him in a habitual aspect. Anyone can rub anyone else the wrong way and first impressions count for a disproportionate lot, even if it's multiple first impressions over a period of a few years. You can feed even a rational inference machine unrepresentative data, like the point of that post of mine that went viralish a little while ago But some Sam Harris-y traits:

We like to be married to our strawmen, even after it's been repeatedly explained to us that the strawman is (shockingly) not a good model of the inner motivations of the people we're criticizing. But unfortunately when you throw out strawmen, the most likely people to respond seem to be the most like the strawmen for some reason, which I feel is happening with the lazy garbage commies who go on hate campaigns against him (the serious ones ignore him actually). And I supposed that almost certainly what happens with me and ancap-types, but I don't really have evidence to support that like I feel I have with Scott's situation.

We have a tendency to talk about new studies like they're objectively correct while ignoring the consensus. That's... not how science works. It's especially common when the conclusion is convenient to our biases, which in Scott's case really seems to mean "is interesting" more than any particular ideology. But like for Harris types it's one thing to think pomo's influence on the sciences has issues, it's another to think that while also using the same philosophical tools to critique sciences that aren't achieving concordance. Like you're going too meta there and throwing the baby out with the bathwater instead of really doing the work to get out the good data in your own framework. It's probably my own biases in assessing my writing but I don't feel like I'm as guilty of this as I used to be, with my being worst at it ironically around the time I started reading rationalist-adjacent stuff; maybe it's because I came into this with a strong allergy to that kind of pattern from my own experiences in the atheism wars and alt-medicine.

Scott mostly just ignores trolls (and ineffectual critics) which is really good behavior, but Sam Harris types also have this tendency to mistake "trying to talk in a neuter tone" with "talking in a neuter tone" (and with Scott he doesn't seem to take a lot of blogging very formally to begin with, which, that's fine, it's incredibly fine, but it affects the synthesis of a wannabe neutral tone and laid back assumptions) and feel offense when someone else doesn't understand them or gets mind-killed early on. Instead of looking over their own work for their own weaknesses as a "neutral writer" they (we) instead have the unfortunate habit of talking about mind-killing like it's the other party's fault. Scott kind of gives off this vibe (I probably do too).

But this comes off as incredibly snide and condescending and is almost a pan-rationalist vice. Like I'd name names but this is already me being an ass as it is. Most of the people I follow do this to some degree, actually. And this might be a bad opinion, but, some topics are not neutral no matter how much you want them to be and your bias is gonna get the better of you if you don't mindfully wrestle with it. Maybe I over-anthropomorphize as well but ideas aren't to be trusted, because they want to take advantage of you so they get passed along; so do expect that they have ways of breaking into and fucking around with your cold, distant, neutral demeanor even if you think it's a game or at least you have no stake in the game.

To be honest - and maybe this is a terrible thing that negatively effects the strength of what I try to say - this is why I try to wear my biases on my sleeve. Because when I don't the impact tends to be heavier than I'm usually prepared to deal with. And when I see my thinking in plain english instead of trying to cover it up I generally feel like I'm handicapping myself when the discussion eventually devolves to tone. Because on there should be my own mistakes so I can avoid trying to be a hypocrite, instead of the shadows of my mistakes obscured even from me such that I defend myself as if I don't cast a shadow.

(Which - casting a shadow, as opposed to deity-like glowing radiance (and which I'm quick to point out radiant bodies also cast shadows, such that not even the gods are perfect even if it's not obvious) - is a metaphor I've used for imperfection and probably isn't an obvious metaphor, sorry if explaining this feels condescending)

There's also probably something to be said about ~revealed preferences~ but I don't really like that piece at all. It seems true to me that people that like certain models of the mind tend to think that way themselves, though, but in general I think the revealed preferences assumes people are more rational than they really are and that people's actions don't really correlate to their inner worlds. There might be *something* to the argument that if you give off the impression of being a reactionary (or tankie, or psycho, or narcissist, or pedo-lover or gay-hater or brown-people-genocider or [positive and neutral things I can't juxtapose against the previous because it would imply they're a natural set] or whatever) through the actions you take such as who you fight or policies you support or mistakes you're willing to make, it might be because you have reactionary (etc) pattern-matching biases in your writings creeping in from your own world, but like if inner worlds really correlated with actions I'd be dead so it'd probably come across as incredibly hypocritical to try to point out that it seems like model held to be true has negative implications and bullets you're willing to bite about yourself. Don't even know if Scott buys into that piece anyways, maybe barking up a wrong tree.

At least this shit is why places like r/badphilosophy have anti-Harris memes. Their applicability to rationalists and para-rationalists and really anyone is probably more of a subjective impressionistic thing than an absolute fact. Harris fans like to say he's taken out of context, for example. My own experiences with the guy are like he's like Marx - taken out of context, but the context gets taken out of context because he's kinda low key a pompous windbag and actually at the next level of context above the context looks like the smallest layer of context again. Like Marx's opiate of the masses quote.

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Like I said I don't (habitually) read ssc tho. I'm particularly quick to confuse disagreement with moral failing probably, half this shit's probably not even characteristic of his writing and is just an incorrect set of impressions I've gotten over years of only reading his weakest pieces or second-and-triple hand exposure to him. I really like the anonymized-esque quasi-professional advice he's given on things like depression and he's had a number of jokes I've laughed at or points about non-psychiatric topics I've thought were well articulated. I don't have anything against him and he's a worker who does something I could never do with less free time than I could manage with blogging mostly casually in that free time, so like having lofty expectations that he caters to my preferred writing styles is dickish anyways.

I just tried reading stuff of his again yesterday while running errands because a reactionary-feeling blog was shitting on him, was put off by something I couldn't actually put my finger on while wanting to like him, and tried to describe nebulous gut feelings 12 hours later in a moment of lucidity while being woken up from medication side effects augmented by stupidly poorly managed time on my part, so take me with a boulder of salt

EDIT I also wanted to add a point about how people have this habit of talking about things like everyone else assumes the same points. I'm particularly atrocious at this and basically it can come off as really snide and patronizing if you don't and feels like going A > C because A > B without establishing or referencing why B > C but I forgot to add the point. Rationalist jargon is basically all about shorthanding A > C and Harris is particularly atrocious about it as well, and between it and the other Harris-y stuff is why everyone hates rationalists

[salomedesade]

April 20 was the 18th anniversary of the Columbine High School shooting.  I was a junior in high school at the time, and believe that it was my fascination with the event and the perpetrators that began my obsession with crime. 

Dave Cullen’s book on the tragedy has a few flaws, particularly in the slightly preachy epilogue, where he insinuates that mass murderers after Columbine targeted schools because they thought it would get them more attention.  This is an irresponsible blanket assumption, and is particularly jarring when juxtaposed with Cullen rightfully criticizing the media for spreading false facts and theories about the Columbine shooting.  In the introduction to the new edition, Cullen even turns the criticism on himself, explaining that an interview in the original edition with a young woman who claimed to have dated killer Eric Harris was full of falsehoods and had been removed from the new edition, and that he “should have been more skeptical.”

Smug editorializing aside, the rest of the book is a remarkable achievement.  It not only attempts to right the wrongs of the media coverage, it provides a comprehensive look at how the shooting affected all involved.  The characters profiled include the school’s principal, survivors, local police, parents of the victims, and parents of the killers.  The last element is one that was sorely missing from the initial coverage, and one that, until recently, has been missing from these types of events in general.  Sue Klebold, Dylan’s mother, recalls being told by an attorney that, since her son was dead, the rage of the survivors and victims’ families would turn on her.  And it did.  Sue and her husband Tom, along with Wayne and Kathy Harris, faced lawsuits and vicious accusations, claiming that they must have known what their sons were planning.  If their sons had been taken alive, I doubt that the parents would have become the targets that they did.  The brunt of the hatred would have been borne by the killers themselves.  The parents of the victims just needed somewhere to direct their anger. 

Cullen covers the wide range of reactions and grieving processes.  Cassie Bernall’s parents chose to take comfort in the image of their daughter as a martyr for her faith.  The story that she said yes when the killers asked if she believed in God turned out to be false, but her mother insisted on publishing a book reiterating the myth.  There was Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Danny Rohrbough, who filed endless lawsuits, let anger take hold of him, and even tried to blame the shooting on the legalization of abortion.  The story of survivor Patrick Ireland, known as the “boy in the window” from a photo of him dangling out a school window, is very moving. Despite his ordeal, he harbors no anger, and prefers to move forward with his life.  He often declines requests for interviews, since he’s become tired of talking about that one day.

The book exposes the biggest misconception in the Columbine coverage, that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were lashing out at bullies.  As interviews with their friends reveal, the boys were far from outcasts.  They weren’t what anyone would call “the cool kids,” but they had active social lives.  The avenging outcasts myth came about from a misunderstanding of what was going on inside the school.  It was first reported that the shooters specifically targeted athletes, but later reports confirmed that they did not discriminate in who they killed.  A review of Eric Harris’ journal and website showed a hatred toward the entire human race, not just the jocks.

A forensic psychiatrist interviewed in the book read Eric and Dylan’s journals, and came to a far different conclusion than the media over the motivation for the shooting.  Eric Harris, the psychiatrist said, was a psychopath.  He had all the traits; lack of empathy, superficial charm, frequent lying, and a feeling of superiority.  This, not bullying, is what drove Eric’s desire to kill.  He felt like a god compared to the rest of the population.  He took pride in his ability to manipulate others.  When he and Dylan were caught robbing a van, they wrote letters of apology to the owner as part of their rehabilitation.  Eric’s seemingly sincere apology impressed his case worker, but his journal revealed that he didn’t believe a word of it, and felt he was entitled to the goods in the van due to his superiority.  Dylan Klebold’s journal revealed a suicidal young man desperate to be loved, writing long passages about a girl he admired but would never speak to.  He was full of anger too, but most of it was turned inward.  Like Eric, Dylan saw himself as smarter and different than his classmates.  Unlike Eric, Dylan saw his difference as a curse, barring him from the world of friendship and love he wanted.  The psychiatrist concludes that when the two came together, they exploded  Eric drew out Dylan’s rage, forcing the inertia of his depression into action.  Dylan grew more confident in having a close friend, and his devotion emboldened Eric to grow his murderous ambitions. 

I think the reason the bullying myth endured, and continues to endure, is because it makes more sense to the general public.  Students are bullied every day, some viciously, and it makes sense that they would cling to the story of an avenger, even if it was false.  Adults who remember their own school bullies also understand the desire to harm those who harmed them.  While we may not have taken those actions, we understand those who do.  But two young men, by all accounts with a lot of potential, killing just to kill, is hard to comprehend.  So the media created a more logical narrative, based on flimsy evidence.  Because then the random deaths of twelve people would make some kind of twisted sense.  There’s nothing logical about what Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did.  I doubt even they could have fully articulated their motives.  In 1977, Stephen King, under the pen name Richard Bachman, wrote a short novel called Rage, about a teenage boy who murders his teacher and holds a classroom hostage.  Due to its connection to several real school shootings, King allowed the book to go out of print in 1997.  When the protagonist, Charlie Decker, is asked by one of his hostages why he’s doing it, he responds, “If I knew what was making me do it, I probably wouldn’t have to.”