#i love flaws! i LOVE charas making BAD DECISIONS

[anticute-marshmallowmars]

#going ‘you absolute fucking donkey’ to my faves but while holding them in my arms anyway#it’s about the knee-jerk reactions of ego and revenge outweighing their self-proclaimed values of rationality and intelligence

I love seeing characters make the wrong choice. Like logically, morally, whatever. It should be so easy, so obvious, to do something right for once! But they don’t see it or they don’t care. Their instincts always lead them to choose poorly. Bad for them but great for me because it’s so interesting and I like to watch the suffering. ^_^

[stainedglassthreads]

I’ve talked about this a lot before but I feel like what’s so great about Undertale’s characters is that all (well, most) of the flaws of the characters are really just their positive traits, exaggerated to such a degree that they’re no longer useful.

Asgore is a kind king who will always put the needs of his people before his own needs, and will stop to help even the meekest and lowliest Whimsun or Froggit. Even if if goes against his morals and slowly destroys his mental health until he wants to die. Asgore is very in-touch with his emotions for a male character, and is very open about crying easily and being kind to others--but he also lets his anger make him make a decision in front of the entirety of his kingdom that they love, but he regrets very, very soon afterwards. His traits and feelings and emotions exist at different levels--we get the example of him going to MK’s school to talk about responsibility, we get the note that anyone can come to his house at any time and talk about their problems, but we ALSO get the lead-up to his boss fight of monsters speaking of him like he’s a God they worship, because they fully trust HE will be the one to destroy the Barrier and lead them back to the Surface.

Toriel is kind and loving and dotes on her children, but she’s been through so much loss that she becomes smothering, overprotective, and overbearing. Toriel is an incredibly moral person, but she sticks so hard to her sense of ethics that she leaves her husband over it. Toriel sticks so strongly to her sense of ethics that, even when she has herself totally convinced that there’s no way to talk Monsterkind and Asgore down from their war, she still tries to teach Frisk how to peacefully defuse a conflict until she can come and scare off that monster. But she also fails to see how much harm even a child can cause with enough LV until it’s too late.

How Chara’s completionist tendencies are remembered as a cute character quirk by the Dreemurrs in the Winter Alarm Clock dialogue, but we see how horrifying it can be in No Mercy when Chara is stripped of emotion and remorse, left with nothing but the purpose of power. How Frisk’s determination can be equally terrifying--whether you choose Pacifist or No Mercy, it results in no monster you can find and fight being left behind. For better or for worse.

Undyne is passionate and dedicated and determined and wants so very much to imitate heroism. In No Mercy this is what spurs her character development and allows her to become Undyne the Undyine, but in Pacifist this also leads to her trying to chase down and brutally murder a child who has quite literally never harmed a fly. Alphys only ever wants to help people and be liked, but when she makes an honest mistake and creates the Amalgamates, she’s so terrified of how others will react that she hides them away and makes everyone miserable, herself included.

Etc, etc, etc. This great character writing even continues in Deltarune. Rudy wants to be the kind, chilled out parent to make up for his wife’s overbearingness--but at the same time, he knows he’s not doing so great right now, and it’s unknown if he’s ever tried confronting his wife about how she’s tried to raise Noelle and the effects it’s had on their daughter. Lancer is very earnest and eager to please, whether he’s trying to be the Bad Guy for his Dad, or Susie’s friend, and it hurts to see him so earnestly trying to protect Susie, even as she lashes out against him, in Deltarune’s first chapter. Ralsei tries incredibly hard to support and comfort Kris, to the extent he surrenders his own autonomy and free will. Asgore is still the kind and helpful and thoughtful king from Undertale--but he’s no longer a King, and he’s broke, and he sometimes sees his ex-wife at the grocery store, and if he doesn’t learn to move on from the past and put himself first it’s not going to end well, and Undyne is still passionate and heroic but she’s now stuck in a town where there’s no bad guys for her to fight, and--

...Anyways. I have Thoughts about utdr characters. The sky is blue. What else is there to say.

[edai-crplpnk]

for the asks: 2, 3, 21 (Choji) 💚

For the Character Ask Game

2. Favorite canon thing about this character?

I like that he's canonically shown to be soft and kind. He is pretty unique in that way and I think the canon does a decent job of exploring that? It acknowledge that it's not always a good thing and it hinders him sometimes, given the life that he's meant to live (like in the fight against Edo Tensei Asuma) but still never says that it's a flaw or a bad thing for him to be either. Just that he needs to overpassed it sometimes, but his friends still appreciate that about him.

I like the flashback with Chouza in that chapter too, and how it's hinted that Chouza doesn't have the same personality as his son. I like to imagine that Chouza as well never judges Chouji for this trait, but also probably worries about him and knows that he will have to find a way to toughen up if he wants to make it, both in physical fight situations, but also politically if he's going to be the head of the clan. He needs to be able to be firm and to make hard decisions.

I think in the context of the Naruto world, it's an interesting personallity for a strong and politically important character to have and to keep despite it all.

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

Can I run away from having to say bad things about Chouji by saying the worst thing about Chouji is Asuma? 😆

I'm not super fond of the "he gets upset when people call him fat" trope, I guess. I sort of get why he could feel like this, but also at the same time, this is his whole clan heritage, this is what makes him strong, this is the core of his techniques. Then again, it may take him time to reclaim that and find it empowering. I'm on the fence about it (but also because I don't think Kishimoto was thinking that much about chara development when writing it, and just thought that fatphobic jokes were funny).

However, I love that in chapter 700 Chouchou is shown super unappologetic about her wieght, which makes me think maybe Chouji has made sure to teach her that and made sure she would embrace her body and heritage more freely than he did at her age, and that's very nice!

21. If you're a fic writer and have written for this character, what's your favorite thing to do when you're writing for this character? What's something you don't like?

The two worst part of writing Chouji are 1 He's too pretty I get distracted by the descriptions and I forget what I'm doing 2 For All Bones and a Beating Heart, I knew Shikamaru's chara development required to be able to formulate criticism about Chouji instead of idealising him too much, but I was on the same boat as him and I was very biased and it was very hard 😆

The fav part... I've been thinking about it for a while and I'm not sure, but I can say at least that one thing I've really been enjoying with his dynamic with Shikamaru in that fic is that I got to have a few very heavy scenes where they managed to pull through and be light with each other at the end. Like despite saying hard things they still eventually find the way to pick each other up if only a little. In canon they seem to be able to relax most when they are together and I like to imagine that they can create a bit of space to breathe together when they try, even in hard times.

Thank you for asking!

(And link to All Bones and a Beating Heart since I'm here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/55060567/)

[cutegirlmayra]

(Sorry for the rant. I was just angry at how people, even if they are clearly talented otherwise, tend to mischaracterise Amy and wanted to vent)

The Ask didn't quite relate to my blog, and it seemed like odd advertisement? (Which is apart of my rules that I don't do) but I agree that Americanizing Sonic was a bad idea but without it, we wouldn't have gotten our now childhood animes at all ^///^;

I am more than grateful for the failures of Americanizing Anime attempts because it led to America being exposed to Anime, and half my personality is now just the anime I grew up with XD

I researched Amy as a kid because I wanted to know more about Sonic and the characters, I'm glad I did. She really is misunderstood, but done right, she is a very compelling and inspiring character.

'Amy Rose' is often used in Fanfictions (As far as my personal opinion goes) as an insert 'comfort' chara for 'what we want to see in Sonic' being projected onto Amy.

"We want Amy to be angry"... why?

"Because we think Amy is mistreated"? But she doesn't feel that way.

"Well, she should." No... she is happy in the life she has?

"Well, I want her to be angry." And that's where we get angsty fanfictions lolol (Even I wrote them back in the day when I was first starting out writing!)

We have to remember she's not actually sad? She's lonely, yes, and that's REALLY fun to write emotional stories about xD But she's also content with her decision to follow and stay by Sonic's side, and we should respect that she feels, in her heart, that Sonic will choose her in the end. (As a Japanese Official said through twitter, he probably would if he was allowed to grow up in Canon.)

I would love to be given the chance to write for Sonic, but alas, Amy is the only female chara I feel is so targeted because everyone wants to 'fix' her situation, especially with Sonic.

Doesn't that mean... the American show 'guilt-tripped' us into thinking that way?

In Japan, everyone finds Amy's antics to be endearing... because she was WRITTEN differently, and for that culture.

It's a shame, when you see the American script, she's a joke. And we want to give her a just result for all her efforts.

It's very human.

So next time you see someone using Amy as a way to vent, know that they're being very human. It can come from anger at how 'mistreated' she is, or it can come from a genuine love or confusion about her, and the mind aimlessly trying to make it make sense.

The truth is out there, but only the worthy, with enough time and digging... can find it.

I wonder... if she would appreciate how many people really want the best for her... would that touch her beyond belief?

We all want to defend our 'comfort charas' that we want a 'happy ending' for. Sonic X never really gave us that feeling... so we write about it.

We feel Amy is flawed enough to project our 'unfairness' in our lives onto her and let her be angry for us... Honestly, that kind of writing can be healing, but it can also be 'too much' for other readers.

For me... I just...

Don't want to forget... who Amy Rose really is.

In the hodgepodge of Sonic Fandom confusion...

And with each of us having--most likely--discovered Sonic between transitioning to teenager and then adulthood... (I believe I was 8 when I first drew my Sonic OC, and was writing pretty much in Middle-College Sonic fanfiction. So that says something about how much Sonic touched me as a kid!)

Amy just speaks to our 'tender protectiveness' of our childhood...

We are protecting her like we would want someone to protect our childhood selves...

So yeah, it can be annoying... but... it's how they're healing... and someone, somewhere, will like that story.

Me and you? Maybe not so much... but that's the power of story, the power of character, the power of being human.

Allow young or old writers to be human beings... and connect and want to give a fictional character they projected a time in their lives on... a happy or healing ending. Even if that is a disturbing result,... it's not exactly our right to say what's right and wrong for that specific writer.

Now for me? I like Amy having a nice, sweet ending.

But I also write what people request of me.

So I mean -shrug- compromise our childhood realities sometimes? Sure.

Amy is definitely a character I long to see a happy ending for... what about you?

[hahanoiwont]

1. What kind of relationship does WT Frisk have with Nightmare & co? Is it family-like or is it friendship-like? Does WT Frisk get along with all the bad sanses?

2. What if WT Frisk met Ink and Dream first? What would their relationship with Frisk be like?

3. I know that in your fanfic Whither then, Frisk has some kinda nonchalant attitude about dying again and again. What kinda of reactions would the skeleton bros have when finding out that Frisk has died so many times to point of Frisk becoming numb to dying?

4. I know I’m asking a lot of questions, so sorry about. But I love your fanfics and they make me happy and sad when reading them. If Frisk agreed with Red to stay immortal and stop aging, would all the multiverse sanses and Papyruses be happy about that?

Thank you so much for answering my long winded questions. 😆

oh no this was buried in my askbox, I am sorry for losing it for so long! So without further ado:

1. Does WT Frisk get along with all the bad sanses?

Yeah! I'd say in the bad sanses au (mostly readable here) Frisk gets on well with mostly everyone--those of them with specifically Frisk/Chara-related trauma might take a while to adjust, but most of them have already met Frisk before they even get to Nightmare's place. This is after Frisk and Dust have been traveling together for a while, so of course they get along. They actually have to work more on the idea of being separated sometimes, when Dust goes on missions and Frisk isn't constantly with him. They've been traveling together for several universes, and while Frisk is an independent kid, Dust has been about 3 feet from them, max, for much of that time. Mostly because he doesn't actually have any means of traveling through the multiverse himself, besides just catching on Frisk's shoulder as they go. If they'd happened to go and leave him behind, he'd be stranded. Thus, the two of them were more or less attached at the hip, especially towards the end of any given run. I think that habit would be hard to break, even when they're rooming with several new people and Dust has a sorta-kinda real job.

Likely, this starts out with Frisk just hanging out with Horror, and Dust coming with them as a matter of course while they do things he's not particularly interested in. So, Dust and Horror reach a comfortable mutual tolerance fairly quickly, mostly because Dust is apathetic and Horror is busy enjoying the reunion. But I imagine the first mission they go on is a whole stressfest for everyone involved, given Horror's abandonment issues, Frisk's abandonment issues, and Dust's discomfort with addressing social situations without Frisk to run interference. So, that would be a Time.

2. What if WT Frisk met Ink and Dream first?

Hmm. Let's say it's maybe a sort of Outertale situation, where Ink and Dream happen to be in a world that they're monitoring for Shenanigans when, lo and behold, a Shenanigan drops in their laps!

This is never covered in Outertale bc Comet doesn't know about it, but the general outcode community deals with people not being where they belong by trying to find some place they can belong in. Being as it's pretty unsustainable to try sending Frisk back to UF, they'd likely try to set them up with an AU that's expressly for homeless universe-wanderers. That way, Frisk isn't wandering through AUs that aren't supposed to have an outcode presence in them, and there's a minimum of interference. So...I think that lands Frisk in some place like the omega timeline, or haventale?

I think somewhere like that would be pretty good for them, actually--they're surrounded by people who have all also lost their homes, and loved ones, and who are also trying to build a new life after all of that. Somehow, I see them making friends with a post-genocide version of one of the swap bros? Or. actually. Disbelief!Papyrus. To my understanding that's Classic Papyrus as the survivor of a genocide run in which Sans was killed before the Judgement Hall, so Papyrus is the one to wait in the Hall and confront the human for murdering his brother. I think that Papyrus would have a lot to say about Sans as a flawed but beloved individual who is now gone forever, which Frisk would be able to empathize with after their experience with Red. I think after some initial wariness, they could be dear friends to one another.

3. What kinda of reactions would the skeleton bros have when finding out that Frisk has died so many times to point of Frisk becoming numb to dying?

Well! Not best pleased, of course--learning that a loved one has died, even if they're back to being alive now, can't be easy. Of course, the Sanses generally know, or suspect--Red absolutely knows they've died, and has some specific deaths that he deduced in fairly accurate detail from Frisk's reactions and his own nightmares/deja vu moments. Ironically, he also has some nightmares about deaths that didn't happen, and assumes that those are also real. Blue, if you recall, thought he'd killed them in a past genocide run; Black and Slim were both aware of the possibility that they could time travel but ultimately dismissed their suspicions when Frisk proved to be able to REFUSE instead. US!Papyrus has learned that they can time travel and has done his best to take it in stride, but has avoided thinking too hard about the implications of that. Shy was also intellectually aware of the possibility, but he decided he didn't want to know.

However, in terms of new information, I think Fell would take it the hardest. He would see it as an absolutely crushing failure--not only did he not keep them safe from their own brother, he didn't keep them safe at all. He would seriously start to question whether he's of any use to them at all--which, given his ideas about attachment, would lead him to feel he doesn't have a place in their life. He would definitely take it personally that they died so much when he was purportedly protecting them.

I think his ultimate decision, reached without discussing the matter with anyone else, would be that he's Definitely Failed as a brother, both to Red and to Frisk, and he's just not capable of keeping anyone safe. Clearly he is simply not meant to experience love. He can save his world from itself but he can never keep a single person from suffering. I think at this point US!Papyrus would step in, because clearly someone has to, and remind Fell that he's still extremely violent and paranoid. If it came down to a duel to the death to keep their respective siblings safe, Fell would win by a landslide. This would actually make Fell feel better. Surely, if US!Papyrus is worthy of love despite being totally unable to kill a dozen people in an afternoon, Fell must be fine. He will just do Better from now on. No One Will Ever Die Again. Which is good, considering that murder is illegal now due to Fell's extensive efforts.

4. If Frisk agreed with Red to stay immortal and stop aging, would all the multiverse sanses and Papyruses be happy about that?

Well, I think that depends on exactly how they come to be immortal...I think the easy answer would be to absorb a boss monster's soul, since boss monsters don't naturally age, and go from there. Which would be an unpopular plan, generally. Especially since Frisk is quite young currently, and not at immediate risk of dying, barring unusual circumstances. It would just seem like a drastic move for a time that's so far away.

I think it would also depend on Frisk's attitude on it--if it's something that they're relieved about, or something they were pushed into, or even something they approached Red about in the first place.

Exceptions exist--Red would be both smug (he did a Good Thing. no one else even thought of it but he did) and quietly relieved; Fell would disapprove of Red being a bad influence on Frisk if the method were particularly violent but would notably not obstruct the process and not let anyone else stop it, either; Slim would be all for as long as Frisk was alright with it; and Black would insist that it's their choice and his approval or disapproval isn't what's important here. Though he would be likely to corner Red later and convey his gratitude through terrifying and questionable means.

Sfrisks would think that all of these people are insane.

Hoo boy this got long, but,, thank you for sending in these asks! I love answering these questions, even if it takes me a while to actually get to the answering bit. I appreciate it!

[rainbow-scarab]

This is my take on Asgore (with a healthy side of Chara).

Obligatory disclaimer that you are free to have your own take, and I enjoy seeing other takes! In the end he's just a fictional character, and people have all sorts of life experiences that lead them to different interpretations.

Also warnings for discussions of difficult subjects found in Undertale, such as suicide, guilt, grief, psychological trauma, death, war, genocide, etc.

Asgore rates pretty low on my scale of UT character morality XD Though I find him an interesting character.

Asgore has both good and bad points as anyone in UT. He's a gentle soul at heart who likes bringing joy to others. But he is very reluctant to wield responsibility. And I believe this inaction is what's behind most of his other negative points, especially when it comes to making decisions.

When Chara came to the Underground, there was renewed hope. Asgore called them "the future of humans and monsters". For a time they all were a happy family, Asgore, Toriel, Asriel, and Chara. Or mostly. Chara was a very troubled child.....

Chara and Asgore were close, as were the rest of the Dreemurrs to Chara. But I don't think they quite knew how to help Chara. Chara must have had such a horrible life among humans to hate them so much...and then just decide to leave where they would never return. They found a loving family, and loved monsterkind. But they were still quite disturbed and probably had a lot of self-hate, both for being human and for their problem behavior. Being designated "the future of humans and monsters", they may have felt a lot of pressure.....and took what actions they thought would help monsters. Already hating humans, and humans being the cause of the monsters' imprisonment underground, on top of the self-hate, killing themselves and going on to kill six more humans in pursuit of monster freedom would feel like the best way they could contribute to a family, and species, that they loved so dearly.

Though I don't think being designated "the future of humans and monsters", a symbol of hope to the kingdom, ended up being healthy for Chara, I don't blame Asgore for this. The kingdom really needed that hope. And the Dreemurrs themselves would have been overjoyed both for that species-wide hope, and for the place Chara had in their family. It would be near impossible to be able to guess what Chara would ultimately do. It seems Chara did not open up about what had happened to them to Toriel and Asgore, and only partially to Asriel. But I think they would have been able to provide an environment of love and support to help Chara heal had they been there longer.

(Check out this post for a thorough analysis of Chara. It talks about and give evidence for Chara and Asgore's relationship. Also explains the "Chara is the narrator" theory I'll reference later)

But once Chara and Asriel took action, and both died.....Asgore became enraged. He declared war on humanity, completely reversing tone from before. Toriel left, and Asgore was alone.

In the years that followed, Asgore's declaration was followed. Monsters had great prejudice towards humans, and the royal guard kept a lookout for humans. Humans would either be killed by the guard, or Asgore himself.But at least by the time we get to him....he doesn't seem to be angry with humanity. He doesn't pretend that he will try to be friendly with Frisk the same as he does with other monsters, but...he wants to be. And he will give Frisk all the time they need before their fight. Doesn't even seem to care if it's years down the line. He just won't let Frisk pass in the end.

Once you fight and defeat him, he expresses how much he hates all the stuff about war, and just wishes for everyone to be happy and hopeful again. And perhaps...it could all just be over, and Frisk could leave the Underground with his soul. (More on this later)

To me, Asgore's big flaw....is not his declaration of war. Though that is definitely bad. One does not just declare their intention to not just kill humans to free monsters, but to destroy all of humanity, while in a position of power and influence...for that to be dismissed as nothing.

But....he was also very angry, for a very understandable reason. And....at some point....that anger subsided. And yet, he continued on the same path.

To me Asgore's biggest flaw is that he avoids responsibility and making decisions. The only time he ever is shown to make a significant decision...is his declaration of war, and it took extreme emotion for that to happen. But once back to more reasonable levels of emotion, he wouldn't even take action to reverse his own declaration. He felt duty-bound to kill humans, or else they would lose hope. Mmm...I'm not sure if that's just what he was telling himself to avoid decision, and perhaps the feared consequences of changing course were overblown. More on this in a minute.

In the past, it was Asgore and Toriel ruling together, even if Asgore seemed to the be official one in charge. As far as I can tell, they worked well together. Toriel on most of the details of running a kingdom, and Asgore, keeping up the spirits of monsterkind. Once Toriel was gone....no one really replaced her role.

(pic from Alarm Clock dialog)

Asgore did not develop the skills to run things well, and did not find anyone to help as far as I can tell. Undyne became head of the Royal Guard sometime after Toriel left (Undyne does not recognize her when they meet), though it's possible the Royal Guard itself appoints their own leadership. At the very least, Asgore appointed Alphys into the long-vacant position of Royal Scientist.

Though as seen by this bit of dialog from one of the neutral endings, merely having people in official positions doesn't mean his role as king is supposed to be over. Proper oversight would have certain made the amalgamate situation different anyways.

(There's the question of Sans possible working for Asgore. But since there's no hard evidence that I know of for this, I'm not really using this in my analysis)

Asgore still wants to get help. I think...to be unburdened from some or all of his responsibilities. Even if he doesn't know much about who he's asking help from. Like Frisk.

Ambassador is a huge responsibility to place on a young kid. Granted, there aren't other human choices, and even a child with no political skill would be a great symbol to bring humans and monsters together. And this child is the one who just saved everyone pretty much. Okay, I’ll grant him that.

Once defeated in a neutral run, he asks Frisk to take his soul and head to the surface. He would pass on the fate of monsters and humanity to someone he knows nothing about, not even their name, only that they came and defeated him in battle. But perhaps he just was...tiring of even trying anymore. Perhaps he was filled with guilt and grief and just...didn't want to live anymore. Okay. Spare him, and he entertains the thought of living a peaceful life together as a family, before Flowey kills him.

If you complete a neutral ending, then go back and defeat Asgore again on a neutral route, you get some special extra dialog. On choosing to spare him, Flowey doesn't come as quickly to kill him. He thinks again of life as a family, before dismissing it as fantasy. He identifies you with Chara (for having hope), with the prophecy of the angel, and then asks you to find a way to free monsters without really giving you a choice. ...again, he knows nothing about Frisk, their name, where they come from...only that they would give them mercy. And yet he is willing to make them in charge of the fate of all monsters. He kills himself, offering his soul up (before Flowey destroys this possibility).

(Side note...this or my analysis do not have the message that suicide is avoiding responsibility. I analyze his stated motives. It's quite possible that he had additional feelings of guilt and grief that led him to chose this. Even if not, it can't and shouldn't be generalized for other suicides)

Asgore is so reluctant to act...not even in genocide will he do anything special to save his people.

When you reach Asgore, clearly he has not heeded the warning and absorbed the human souls. I considered that perhaps Alphys did not call as she hates phone calls. But... there's a Queen Alphys ending, an aborted genocide ending. In it she pushes aside her fears and steps up, saving her people, implied that she hides them in the True Lab. I think this Alphys would have called.

He even gets a second warning here. But...he still tries to reason his way through, and speak with kindness. He is promptly killed.

In addition to his reluctance towards taking action, the other half of why Asgore wouldn't change...is that he was afraid that the people would lose hope.

...but I agree with Toriel. Through Asgore's lack of leadership, and continuation of the anti-human policies that came about when he was angry...the hope in the future that Asgore gave his people was dark.

In reality, though Asgore didn't want his people to lose hope...he himself had already lost hope. Perhaps that's why he couldn't bring true hope to his people.

In the Queen Toriel neutral ending, Asgore and the six human souls are gone. Toriel has instated a new policy to treat humans as friends. The people's hopes have taken a blow....but I don't think all is lost. It is possible to have a new vision and policy going forward, without Asgore or hoping for humanity's destruction.

In the King Papyrus ending, things are not quite as bright. There's a new policy to treat humans on a case by case basis. Papyrus tries to keep everyone working and fed. Sans does...a lot of paperwork. Productivity is up. But.....things are really hard. Papyrus is a great candidate to keep people's hopes up, kinda like Asgore (...Sans functions like Toriel too taking care of a lot of the details lol). But the Underground has lost many of their most beloved in this ending.

Yes.....I don't think Asgore, despite having lost hope, was only a detriment to monsterkind. His presence still brought some hope to the people, and his death was something to be mourned. But the loss of Asgore and his vision forward is just one factor in the outcome. Ultimately, I think Asgore's fears were not very true. If he changed course, away from his declaration of war...the people would adjust.

....Through all this.......

There was still one person still filled with Asgore's original hopes.

Chara never forgot Asgore's words as they lay dying. Even though they didn't heed these words....Asgore was an important figure to them in life.

Chara sticks by you the entire game, giving narration. In a few parts of the game, they share their memories with you, like when they fell into the Underground and were found by Asriel. And.....

When you die....they relay Asgore's own words to you. A message of hope to keep you going. A message that repeats to you the entire game, as many times as you need it upon death. Determination...the will to keep living...the resolve to change fate.

When you reach Asgore...he sees it. Maybe it doesn't mean anything special. A child may be full of hope for many reasons. I just kinda...want to believe that the same message of hope he gave to Chara...encouraged Frisk to make it this far, and it shines through on their face.

Through Frisk, Asgore's hopes come back to him. It's come full circle. He believes in a bright future again. A future with both humans and monsters.

You meet Asgore at the very end of the game. You've known him all of five minutes before Flowey shows up, and the final battle begins. Perhaps this is why he didn't have time to grow beyond this. Maybe, once on the surface, he'll work on himself further. Or not, I dunno, he stayed the same for a long time. We don't know.

Honestly....in the course of writing this my perspective on Asgore has changed. I expected to mostly write about his flaws, and why I thought of him poorly. But I didn't want to be unfair. And well...in Undertale.... When you dig a little deeper, you can find so much more about them than your assumptions and initial impressions. That the whole beauty of the game.

While I still think that Asgore is one of the most flawed people in the game...he has his good points too. And those actually turns out to be pretty important. Stay determined ❤

Screencaps from the Undertale Text Project (the work of squishing many textboxes in one image done by me)

P.S. One of the funnier lines in the game to me:

Thank you for reading!

[rubberduckyrye]

I did not mean to imply that Kokichi is a twisted sociopath. I REALLY don't want to perceive him that way, but a lot of people see him like that. And it kinda feels... unnatural for me. To go to your blog, to see portrayals of him as a leader, as a boy who is rude, callous and a trickster, but who still cares about his classmates with all his heart, who did horrible things out of desire to help others, to see him as a human instead of the evil incarnate. "There must be some kind of a mistake" I

think, "You must have been mistaken about something. How the hell can you interpret him as a flawed, twisted(in later chapters) but still likeable human being? It's clearly wrong because he is a villain" I don't allow myself to even slightly ponder the fact that Kokichi has feelings, that he is not a sociopath that enjoys human suffering, because for some reason it is WRONG. And I don't want to see him as "Nagito + Junko + Hiyoko but worse", but somehow in my head every interpretation of him

other that "sociopathic nazi gremlin" is WRONG and blasphemous. Somewhat like with Chara several years ago when I was into UT. I liked the Narrator/Player Chara theories because they showed Chara as a very flawed individual who did a lot of things wrong but also had many redeeming qualities despite that, because it gave them some depth instead of reducing them to the one-dimensional "for the evulz" villain and also provided an interesting deconstruction of game mechanics(narration, interaction         

game mechanics. But the voice in my head kept telling me that this game mechanics. But the voice in my head kept telling me that this interpretation is wrong, completely not canon in the slightest bit, Chara is pure evil, you are just stupid for daring to assume sth else about them. Because of it, I eventually started to hate Undertale and everything pertaining to it. This is a very simular thing to my Undertale experience. Surfing this blog and finding UT and DRV3 content made me realise that.     

----------------------------------------------------------

All right gonna assume the rant is done here since that last ask looks like the end but tbh it doesn’t really matter because this is basically pushing my boundaries here and I’m getting really tired of this nonsense in my ask box.

Because gonna be blunt Anon, this sounds like a “you” problem.

First of all--this blog, impytricky, has over 900 followers. Meaning that ~900 people follow this blog and agree with the notion that Kokichi is not a terrible person. My blog over at @unweavinglies has over three hundred with a significant drop in total posts on that blog, and my theories there often get hundreds and hundreds of notes. People who don’t even follow this blog or that one will reblog my analysis posts in agreement.

So a lot of people see Kokichi as less “evil” and more morally grey. Actually, I’ve seen more positive interpretations of Kokichi than I’ve seen people making him into a true villain. That’s because making him a pure evil little bastard is kind of really boring and misses the entire point of his character and character arc.

You probably don’t see a lot of the “good” interpretations of Kokichi because you don’t go looking for it/ignore it/dismiss it when you come across it. Probably. Like how I see less of the villain interpretation because I don’t go looking for it/dismiss it/whatever.

Second of all: Kokichi is technically not a villain. While I still go by the policy that all interpretations are valid, it’s not canon that he is a “villain.” Narratively speaking, Kokichi is an anti-hero. An anti-hero is “a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes,“ and yes, can be antagonists. Antagonists does not equal Villain, however. Anti-heroes are often marked by the idea of a hero doing bad things for the greater good.

Third of all: Please for the love of god cut that shit out with the Nazi thing. Kokichi is not a Nazi. I hated this stupid misconception before and I still hate it now--it’s offensive, outside of fiction, and it’s just plain inaccurate either way. This misconception comes from the fact that Japan especially tends to romanticize military attire, including attire in WWII Germany, which shows up in Kokichi’s hat in one promo picture. Another reason this misconception is the bane of my existence is because some fantranslator translated Kokichi’s ultimate talent to be “Ultimate Dictator” when it was apparently able to be translated as “Ultimate President” or “Ultimate Leader”. The Nazi misconception is just that--a huge misconception created by poor taste in design and fantranslations being inaccurate.

Please for the love of god, take that thought and unlearn it now. Seriously, it’s offensive. Stop it.

Fourth of all: This is where I see that this is more of a you problem above everything else. From what you’ve said, you seem to deem “morally grey” characters as “evil” or “Villainous” which comes with black or white thinking. From my perspective, what I’m hearing is “I can’t see shades of grey, so this must be black because it is not white.”

Let me ask you: Gonta Gokuhara. Whether or not Kokichi showed him the flashbacklight due to “””Evil””” intentions or whatever, he chose to kill Miu. Kokichi did not “trick” him into it, nor was he able to force Gonta into it via blackmail or what have you. Gonta chose to kill Miu of his own accord. This is a straight up canon fact. He chose to kill Miu because he believed that Mercy Killing her and everyone else before they found out the secret of the outside world would be kinder. This is canon fact that really cannot be disputed.

Let me ask you--is Gonta evil all of a sudden because he chose to kill someone? That he was aiming to kill everyone?

What about Frisk--or the player, in undertale--who has to actively choose to genocide run the game? Are players who choose ths path evil all of a sudden? What about Frisk, who would also be making this decision? Deltarune has implied that “Chara”, or the demon or whatever, is a separate entity that can control the character we play and we can’t control them when they’re in control. Meaning that for the whole Genocide route, Frisk had to actively choose to kill every single monster underground. If you go by the theory that the player isn’t just controlling their movements at any rate, you can see Chara take control in when thy kill Sans and Flowey. Yes, this means that Chara was not in control before then, thus putting the blame for most of the Genocide run on the player, or Frisk.

Yet the choice to do a pacifist run is there too. So which is it? What’s evil, and what isn’t evil? Can you really call Frisk pure good or evil? What about the player? What about Gonta?

That is the complexity of grey morality--the answer isn’t black or white and can’t be so simplified. Because what’s kinder, in Gonta’s case--killing everyone, or letting them find out that basically all of humanity was wiped out off of the face of the earth and the killing game they were forced into was all for nothing? Sure it’s terrible to kill someone, but it’s also terrible to allow people to be mentally tortured too, which the outside world basically did to everyone when they did find out.

It sounds like you’re stuck in the mind set of things being black or white. If you want to see characters like Kokichi and Chara as morally grey, then you need to tell that voice that says otherwise to shush up. No one is perfectly evil, no one is perfectly good. Good people can do horrible, terrible things and still be good people. Bad people can also do very, very good things, and still be terrible people.

I won’t be answering asks like this again. Please refrain from shoving your opinions down my throat. Maybe you didn’t intend to, but you are with lines like "There must be some kind of a mistake" and "You must have been mistaken about something. How the hell can you interpret him as a flawed, twisted(in later chapters) but still likeable human being? It's clearly wrong because he is a villain" because yeah that’s basically ways of saying “You’re wrong about Kokichi and I don’t like your interpretation.”

[softshouyous-archive]

do yona!!!

AHHH HELLO LOVE THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! i smiled so much when i saw this ask last night thank you for enabling me hehe (under a read more because i . am very chatty today JFLKG)

haven’t heard of it | absolutely never watching | might watch | currently watching | dropped | hated it | meh | a positive okay | liked it | liked it a lot! | loved it | a favorite

don’t watch period | drop if not interested within 2-3 episodes | give it a go, could be your thing | 5 star recommendation (please it’s so funnie, there is amazing chara dev, oh no i forgot my last point gfjg) (the manga esp is so amazing omg thank you miss kusanagi)

fav characters: yona: she is SO strong god i . god i love her sososo much i’m tearing up just thinking about her hjkgdfhgfjdhg her chara dev is SO amazing oh my god. if you watch the first episode and then read one of the most recent chapters you’d just be stunned at the difference . i love my queen i was going to go on some more about my other faves but this would get Long so i’ll just list them: the four dragons, yoon, and lili least fav characters: gogi (goji??) and perhaps the king that they’re facing off rn, i forgot his name jkghgdfjghffav relationship: hak and yona and hak and jae ha GDFJLKGJ they’re so dumb gdjksgk OH and yona and lili fav moment:omg okay honestly my memory of yona is like . super bad esp since i sped read it like . maybe a year or two ago gdfjkghdfg so i forgot a lot, though i plan to reread soon hehe (~: i actually reread the arcs where lili appeared and wow

like okay first . yona saving lili from that guy who was on nadai??? drop kicking him and then turning to lili to ask if she’s all right??? please that was really cool.... and also like. i really love how lili saw yona and was inspired to change because of her??? like she realized her own flaws/insecurities once (?) she saw yona’s strengths and was like shit dude??? when she realized her flaws i feel like, hm how to say gdfjghjf yona’s strengths helped her improve in the areas of herself that she was unhappy with?? that just makes me feel . so warm like. wow . gjdfksgjfkd but yeah she wanted to change things > her dad wouldn’t let/help her > and she was also. really scared?? but i feel like seeing yona’s displays of courage really helped her be more brave !!!! for ex, when they were staying at the inn where the guy responsible for nadai was at, yona put herself out there and protected lili and tetora. lili questioned yona’s actions and asked if she was scared and said that she wasn’t strong. yona pretty much agreed with those things but was like ‘even though i’m scared, i have to protect you both’ (or smth) and just. wow . that really. Does Something you know??? and i just love yona so much for that she’s so admirable like putting yourself out there even though you’re scared??? i..... h. and wow i’m really going off track . i feel like that all really fueled lili’s next actions of taking the golden water seal and making all those decisions for the better in order to try to get rid of the nadai. if i remember correctly, even though she was scared and knew of the repercussions, she still went on because of the courage she saw yona had and because she really cared about her nation and i just !!!!! fuck man !!!!!!!! she’s so strong and that made me so happy to see that she wasn’t held back by her fears and that she was willing to sacrifice things for the better like . god man . 

and i just love their friendship besides that like when they hung out in the tent and just their convos are so fun!!!!! i love that yona is lili’s first friend like i think that’s so cwute ))): i would die to see an ova or an extra story of just them hanging out and having fun like god i really love their bond so much like every time they’ve had to part i get so emo like no please stay together T___T and i also really love that they’re both figures ??? of royalty in some sense idk why i think it’s kool gkjdghfdoh and that guy who tried to kill yona after they were exiled, his chara dev was great i love and appreciate that gjkfdhgjf

headcanons/theories: oh BOY i WISH i had some ugh but my brain and its lack of creativity ://// oh wait hm maybe i would like to think that hak one day is able to move on and receive some sort of closure from what soo won did ???? like i completely recognize that it’s super hard to recover from what happened ://// like god his. anger from when he first saw soo won again???? like zude . i feel like that was illustrated vvv nicely but it was also so sad to see how mad he got bc it just means that he’s hurting so much you know ))): like his anger and pain was so strong that it was so difficult to hold him back ))): 

hm i like to think that the night of when that happened, yona just sits with hak outside and he just starts talking about his feelings and yona is just there listening because hak doesn’t really talk about his feelings )): he usually  keeps the Cool and Strong front for Princess Yona but those feelings are bound to come out one day, and that day was after seeing soo won again. he goes on about how it felt to see him again and you know about how he just felt so betrayed and hurt, about how ‘i refuse to believe that the gentleness we were shown was fake’ (as said by yona but i like to think that hak feels this way too) and i just feel like that makes it so much more painful because. you have someone who was your childhood friend who was really nice to you and who you had a lot of fun with. then one day they turn around and suddenly take the life of someone very important to you. you want to hate this person and detest them and lock away any memory of them, but it’s hard because you have fond memories of them, they were a good person to you. so then it’s like how do you feel??? i feel like it leaves them feeling vvv conflicted and torn. and it’s just so. heartbreaking to hear hak express his feelings like this esp because she can Feel his hurt. they’re sitting side by side and it’s dark with Minimal moonlight but she can still see the slight tears ): she can’t hear him crying because he’s talking normally and masking it somehow gjdkfhgjf but she gently puts his head on her shoulder and takes his hand and i die unpopular opinion: hm i sadly don’t see that many akayona opins in general so i don’t know :/// oh hm one of them may be that i don’t really like soo won??? gdjkghf like i’ve seen some people say they like hm... and i honestly don’t know how to feel??? i’m trying to pay more attention to his character during my reread and right now i’m Conflicted because . you know gjdkfghdfjgf but hm he is interesting thoughhow’d you find it: OH boy so i have a friend who i watched anime with during my last year of hs and she recommended that we watch yona!!! it was sososo funny omg the anime is so fun!!!! i really loved it and decided to read the manga and oh Man am i so happy that i did because it shows way way more than the anime does and it’s SO good SO amazing i love

random thoughts: zude i feel SO sad for zeno ))): okay before i go into it, first can i just say. the fucking TRAUMA of everyone seeing his power for the first time???? when he got cut up and got his HEAD cut off ???? like miss kusanagi did not hold back with that and showed it i gjdghj and god yona’s expression when that happened like the HORROR on her face i . even though he ended up being okay, i don’t know how someone can recover from that trauma you know???? of seeing a loved one get their head taken off like that??? like god....

but anyway onto my point gdjfklgf i feel so sad for him because of his immortality )))): like he’s going to go through his life meeting and bonding with so many people that he’s going to eventually lose )): as he goes through out his life, he must get sad thinking about the people who he’s lost and how he can never talk to them again no matter what. he carries these memories of loved ones and i think that SUCKS i would literally just want to die i don’t think i can deal with a loved one dying, and for that to happen again and again forever???? like..... zude 

also jae ha is so stupid i love him  

[sephcnes-blog]

DANIELLE CAMPBELL —— Well, if it isn’t PERSEPHONE BLACKWOOD, the HUFFLEPUFF superstar. For those of you who don’t know HER, you can spot them sitting with the other SEVENTH years. Most people think that they’re EXPRESSIVE and NURTURING, but they can also seem pretty ENTITLED and VAIN. Sometimes people call them the EBULLIENT. Sure, they’re a MUGGLEBORN, but that doesn’t define them.

hello hello it me your girl rhia coming at ya with a new muse that i’ve already fallen in love with lmao. this is kinda long so i’m sorry about that but anyway if you wanna read her full bio & stats, those can be found HERE, along with her pinterest HERE, but the real fun stuff can be found under the cut ! 

BACKGROUND

Born February 10th, 1960 in Edinburgh, Scotland.

In the Muggle World, the Blackwood name is one that everyone has at least heard of. Persephone’s father, and many men who came before him, were all well noted politicians.

Her mother, is also a politician, though she is one of less caliber. She met Persephone’s father, Edmund, through her work. The two have never really been in love, their marriage is based on appearances alone. There’s an unspoken agreement between the two that they remain together, they may see others outside of their marriage. 

Being the youngest of the two Blackwood sisters, Persephone was brought up receiving everything a young girl could ever want with just a pleading look. Her sister, however, got the short end of the stick, burdened with responsibilities that Persephone never had to deal with.

The two sisters somehow managed to remain close for a good portion of their childhood. Whenever Persephone’s magic manifested, it was always Thalia who took the blame.

Although she had originally made the conscious decision to do this, she resented Persephone in a way for it, wishing she had a normal sister who wouldn’t do such things. This resentment caused a rift in the girls’ relationship.

As she reached age eleven, Persephone was greeted with a man with a pointy beard and half moon glasses, who wore funny clothing unlike anything Persephone had ever seen before in her life. He explained to her, and her family that she was a witch and she would go to Hogwarts to study magic there.

Her parents were Catholics, and were shocked when they heard the word ‘witch’. To them, any form of witchcraft was considered evil & Satanic, and how could poor little Persephone be capable of such awful things ?

Thalia knew better than her parents and knew what the old man said to be true. Though their relationship at this time was complicated, she still stood up for her younger sister.

Reluctantly, Edmund & Amelia allowed her daughter to attend the school, as long as she came back for breaks & was able to maintain she was at some other elite boarding school.

LIFE AT HOGWARTS

Her time at Hogwarts was not how she expected it to be, at all. Persephone walked through the Great Hall expecting her name to have some substance when interacting with the other students. However, to her disappointment, her blood-status held her popularity down. 

She became acquainted with the term ‘mud-blood’ early on, and had to learn how to be humble.

Thankfully, her house was one that she felt she could belong to, where she wouldn’t be judged simply because of where she came from. These people, along with a few others outside of Hufflepuff, would become her real family.

There are only a few places on the Hogwarts grounds where Persephone can be found. Most of her free time is spent either in the greenhouses with Professor Sprout, or with Professor Kettleburn aiding him with whatever magical creatures he has stashed away. The petite brunette has never been good in any sort of practical magic, such as D.A.D.A. or even Charms, but she finds that she excels in classes such as Potions, Herbology, and of course Care of Magical Creatures.

Made herself an easy target for harassment & bullying by being so open about her blood-status at the beginning, but she remained confident & never let anyone get her down. 

Breaks are always hard for Persephone, because as much as she would love to stay at school, she is forced to return home to her parents and stay there.

PERSONALITY

likes: order, cleanliness, art, painting, money, kindness, compassion, daydreaming, romance, fashion, drinking, partying, attention.

dislikes: chaos, dirt, messes, dishonesty, betrayal, cheaters, laziness, selfishness, bullying, silence, vulnerability.

Whenever the name Persephone Blackwood is ever mentioned in a conversation, there’s a certain image that pops into people’s minds, of a petite brunette well-groomed to perfection. When out of uniform, her style is with the most recent & popular trends. in uniform, although she is less fashionable, she still manages to find a way to accessorize as much as she can. Her face is well decorated, and never wears the same hairstyle twice. appearances are extremely important to her, and would never step outside of her bedroom looking anything less than perfect.

Given that her parents are locked in a loveless marriage, one would assume that Persephone despises the idea of falling in love, but in fact, she’s quite the opposite. She’s a dreamer, and fantasizes about falling in love constantly. She is of the belief that there is someone out there for her, just waiting to fall in love with her. she has a picturesque idea of how love should be, and anyone who falls short of that immediately gets cut out of the picture. Unfortunately, this means she has racked up quite the list of ex-lovers.

Coming from Scotland, she’s got quite an accent, although it’s dulled out a bit after years of travelling with her family, either for work related reasons or vacations.

Although she can be quite entitled & vain at times, she is a fairly easy-going person & gets along with most people ( as long as they can get past her flaws ). The only people she never could see herself getting along with, are those who bully or belittle others, or with previous exes that ended on a poor note.

Persephone is often known for her optimism & cheerful nature. there is rarely an occasion when those around her see her without a smile etched on her features. Those who truly know her, know that she isn’t this way because she’s naturally a happy person, quite the opposite. She spends her time at home being unloved by her parents, whose religion say that she is evil & worship the devil, as well as ignored by her sister because of their childhood together. Even at school, there are times she can’t help but be weighed down by the darkness from those who wish she never existed. Those who are closest to Persephone understand that she acts in such an upbeat manner as a way to cope with these feelings.

She loves art & painting with a passion, though most who know her would never guess it. She uses magic in quite a lot of her works, although hardly anyone has ever seen these creations. Although she does have a very outgoing personality, she can be a very guarded person, and wouldn’t show these to anyone unless she really trusted that person since her paintings are often a very personal thing to her.

Persephone is quite the picky eater, and has been ever since she was a little girl. For an entire year she wouldn’t have anything but chicken nuggets for dinner, no matter how hard her parents tried. Although her palette has expanded a bit since she was a young girl, she has trouble with certain foods. She won’t touch anything with tomato on it, or any sort of beef. Thankfully for her sake, she gets along with the house elves quite well and they make sure she gets exactly the foods that she prefers.

WANTED CONNECTIONS:

the entire list can be found here, but i figured i’d put a couple of my faves here as well. and of course, i’m open to plotting anything really.

best friends; these two/three are inseparable, and are always seen together side by side. these are the people she trusts most in her life and would literally do anything for. (possibly 1-2 people for this plot idk she isn’t the type to have a ton of close friends, just a couple that she’d trust)

pen pals; someone seph doesn’t know the identity of, but relates to them on an emotional level. someone she relates to, and writes to whenever able.  

exes; ( up to plotting, could either be a bad break up for the angst or just two pals who didn’t work but persephone is the type to have quite a list of exes so um yeah )

ex best friends; the person seph used to be closest to in the world, but lost due to (reasons to be plotted). now when they see each other in class or in the halls, its as if they never knew each other. any conversation shared is filled with an awkward tension.

fake relationship; ( not sure how or why but i love me a fake relationship plot so i’m adding it anyway. could be to piss off her parents or maybe her bc her family is pressuring her to find someone of worth. or maybe even something she can fulfill on your charas side idk just give me all the angsty plots lmao )

anyways, sorry this was long asdhkfhk if you do wanna plot with persephone give this plot a like and i’ll message you either here or on discord ( probs on discord though bc i feel like its easier ??? idk if u have a preference lmk ! )

[battlestar-royco]

(1) Hello! First off, I'm not an anti (neither stan) but I enjoy reading anti blogs mostly because they're the only place where I can actually read criticism (and sometimes constructive) towards sjm's books. The only thing I don't really like about them is the treatment of some characters... Like I understand Alien is a perfect snowflake with really problematic traits, but when she does something right or it's actually blamed by the narrative that's just ignored or credited to a "slip" by sjm.

(2) And it can apply to the inverse. D/orian is a cute puppy but if he does a horrible thing that’s sjm ruining the character so we are gonna ignore it and pretend it never happened. Like, I also get angry by some twists sjm has done to some of my fav charas (like m/anon’s in e0s), but I think sometimes antis treat characters unfairly just because they’re not their faves (and I mean, it’s ok to not like those characters! But blame on them what your faves also do is kinda hypocrite).

Welcome to the stanti club :) I won’t speak for all antis, but I certainly fall into the habit of loving a character who is disproportionately hated in order to compensate for that hate. I do that in all my fandoms (namely with Finn and Poe from Star Wars and Sansa from AS0IAF/G0T because they get soooooo unfairly hated and it really doesn’t help that they’re respectively the token MOC and an extremely feminine girly girl!!!!!!!!). Also, we try our best to hold everyone accountable for all they’ve done, especially because SJ/M and stans only do so for certain characters while Failsand and Ratalien tend to get off scot free. For example, no one tries to pretend that N/esta wasn’t abusive to Faerug or that Man0n isn’t a murderous, man-eating witch. That said, we definitely favor the non-central characters/the ones we identify with, and it probably appears like we are really harsh on certain characters. But that’s because otherwise no one critiques anything they’ve done, even if it’s just as bad or worse than what secondary characters have done. Also, a lot of things the side characters do is framed as terrible simply because it disservices Ratalien or Failsand, even if it makes sense for the character to act that way. For example, L/ucien is considered a bad friend to Faerug for not leaving Tom Lane and not saving her from the SC while Faerug fails to recognize he was also being victimized by Tom’s abusive behavior. M0r is angry at Rice for giving V/elaris to Keir even though the city was supposedly under her jurisdiction, but Rice is in the right because all his decisions are for the greater good. Darrow tells Alien she isn’t ready to be a queen because she has literally zero training, but he’s one of the most hated minor characters in T0G. N/esta doesn’t want to be friends with the IC because they exclude the hell out of her and they’re really toxic, but they kick her out of V/elaris without consulting her because they dislike her so much. C/haol was marginally involved in N/ehemia’s death but Alien straight up tried to kill D0rian. And the list goes on.

At this point I dislike Faerug, Rice, R0wan, and Alien so much and they feel more like hollow outlines than real characters to me, so it’s just not my instinct to praise them for the good things they’ve done anymore. I will say that I really enjoyed Celery’s character from TAB-H0F, and I loved that her arrogance both helped her succeed and fail, but now that her flaw has been erased/not acknowledged by the narrative, I can’t really appreciate her. I’ve also personally never found Faerug likable or compelling. So yeah, antis do get caught up in liking/supporting certain characters over others, but that’s because we’re taking into account the fandom and the narrative. And I think we’d all be open to discussing the flaws in the characters we like, because that’s part of why we like them, but if the flaw in question was due to bad writing on SJ/M’s part, we would probably call that out as well. So please if you want to discuss the bad parts of anti-adopted characters, you’re welcome to come to my inbox! I can’t guarantee I’ll agree or anything, but I’m open to discussing the bad and good parts of all characters whether I like them or not.

[stainedglassthreads]

I have a very complicated relationship with Asgoriel as a pairing. 

I will preface this by saying, if you enjoy Asgoriel because you like sweet, fluffy, happy pairings, I’m not trying to attack you. I do understand that these characters have been through a lot, and people want their favorites to be happy, and for a lot of people, ‘being happy’ means ‘in a loving relationship, as an escape from how life can be rough’. You can scroll past this if you so desire. But I'd be delighted if you ask yourself if the ONLY happy ending for these two characters is ‘in a loving relationship again, possibly with children’. 

On the one hand, I don’t like Post-Pacifist Asgoriel stories. I feel like the majority of them skip over the very real issues that Toriel and Asgore have, in an attempt to make Asgore happy, because the author believes the goat dad deserves happiness, and the only way he can acquire happiness is by giving him back the things he yearns to have back. Sometimes with a fankid for extra cuteness. 

But not only does this feel unfair to Toriel, who firmly establishes that she does not want to be friends with Asgore anymore... but it feels like it’d be horribly unhealthy for Asgore, too. 

In both Undertale and Deltarune, Asgore fixates on the past. To perhaps an unhealthy degree in Deltarune. In Undertale, when he’s forced to confront how recreating his perfect happy family and ignoring all the horrible things that happened is impossible, he kills himself. It feels to me that just shoving him back together with Toriel, and giving him Frisk, a newly revived Asriel, or a new baby fankid, to give him his desperately desired happy family, is not actually giving him a happy ending. it’s enabling his tendency for denial. He’s not actually dealing with his grief, or suicidal depression, he’s pretending that nothing bad ever happened, or something similar. Attempts to give him this ending exactly, or pretending that it’s Toriel’s responsibility to smile to make him happy, feels like it’s missing massive, gaping chunks of Asgore’s character and flaws. 

On the other hand... writing their relationship as though they never, ever loved each other also bothers me a lot? 

I’ve seen some takes, occasionally, that Asgore is abusive, or that Toriel never loved him. Admittedly, six years after the game’s creation I’ve stopped really seeing them, but they used to be based off Asgore’s reaction to his kids’ deaths, Asgore and Toriel’s behavior in the True Pacifist ending, and the fact that they had separate rooms. I feel like pretending that they never loved each other... misses the point of their whole tragedy, too. Just as much as claiming that Chara was evil and only ever wanted a boss monster’s soul from the Dreemurrs. 

Toriel and Asgore were so embarassingly sappy that they had cute nicknames for each other. Toriel, specifically, had at least two or three for Asgore. They were so physically affectionate that they beat the incredibly lovey-dovey Dogi in a nose-nuzzling competition. And they may have had different rooms, but Toriel was so excited about being a mother that she woke Asgore up in the middle of the night to tell him mom puns, and once he had woken up a bit, he laughs at them and tries making puns back. 

They loved each other. They were happy together. And then a horrible tragedy hit them, and they both made the wrong choice in dealing with it. And then they both kept making wrong choices. Asgore declared war, and through either his declaration or his own weapon, killed six children that Toriel had cared for. Toriel stayed in the Ruins, unwilling to decisively pick a side between her husband and her children, for fear it would end in watching one of them die. They let an indefinite period of time pass, without really dealing with their grief or their mistakes. 

The point of the tragedy isn’t that one was a victim and the other was a horrible person. It’s sad and painful and engaging and compelling because it’s complicated and there is no real ‘bad guy’. Flattening it into ‘well, it was just a little spat and they managed to work it out!’ feels reductive to me, but so does ‘they don’t love each at all anymore, perhaps they never did.’ I think they still did love each other, and they may have been why Toriel was so unwilling to decisively stop Frisk and Asgore’s fight. But also... love is not some magical force that saves people all by itself. It’s just another emotion. Like fear. Like anger. Like joy. 

I don’t think Toriel and Asgore will ever truly regain the relationship they once had. It’s a tragedy that impacted the entire Underground for generations. That’s not to say they can’t ever be friends, or even begin a new relationship. But Asgore needs to overcome his suicidal depression instead of relying on a romantic partner to save him, and Toriel needs to learn to take care of herself instead of other people. And I think they both need some time... apart, but not alone. They were both self-isolating for a long time, and I don’t think leaping into a romantic relationship where they rely on just each other for happiness and denial is the healthiest thing. I think they both need more friends than just Sans and Undyne, respectively. 

[renjunvinates]

myself ; yourself

Hello! It’s currently spring break and I have an idea of a new series coming soon? Hopefully I'm able to write a lot this week but we’ll see cos I still have homework and dance practice to attend and get to. But here’s a new update

Charas: You x Optional Bias

Length: 1579

Genre: Angsty angst

I’m always hitting up with an Angst because fluff is to cringy

We went through difficult times during our relationship whether it was about our heated arguments or us breaking up either way both times were difficult. When it came down to our arguments they were so petty. You would get angry at me for the littlest things. When I dyed my hair you got angry, when I went to go hangout with my best friend you got angry. They were ridiculous arguments that were unnecessary, and it affected our relationship. But was I better? I would get angry at you for hanging out with your friends, I would be angry if you didn’t message me. We were both petty and immature in this relationship, but then again we were just teenagers. But then when we broke up it didn’t get better we tried being friends and we would still act like we were together and have countless petty arguments. Then we would distance each other and then comeback. It made no sense? The only thing that made sense was we both knew we really loved each other and didn’t want to let go. But after that huge argument with your words wishing we were never together, that was the day that broke us off officially. I’m sure you didn’t mean too, we were both heated in the moment but at the same time it doesn’t excuse what the both of us said to each other. But after our distance you found someone us. I was completely devastated and upset, but did that stop me from continuing to strive? Sort of? But along this journey of hardships I’ve become a better person and I’m sure you have too.

I: That break up was one of the hardest things to overcome, we’ve spent so much time together it was hard to move past our memories. I was so unsure what I meant to you when you found someone else already. Was she a rebound? Did you not love me? Was I hallucinating? All these questions kept recurring. I was just always wondering what I even meant to you at this point. When I found out you were with someone else, I must admit. I was broken inside, and that ultimately led me to draft this hurtful and mean message to you. It was immature of me and it was under the influence of my emotions, but I will not use that as an excuse. I’m sorry, I sent that awful letter. Soon later we both tried talking it out, but we were still immature. You kept confusing me. Telling me you were going to wait for me, but you were with someone else? It hurt me, because yes, I still loved you at the time, but it was so wrong for you to tell me that and I felt so bad for the girl. She knew she was a rebound and you knew too, but she still wanted to be with you. Overtime, during this heartbreak I’ve met the best people in my life to help me overcome this obstacle and helped me shaped who I am today. Shout out to them for helping me out. I don’t think I would be here, or even be who I am today without them. But you got mad at me for hanging out with them, because they were slightly older, and they were boys. I understand you were just watching out for me but at the same time, you restricted me from hanging out with my friends in general. Even when we weren’t together. I wanted to break away from that and I did. I am my own person and I came to decision, I can’t let anyone control me anymore, I’m done being treated like trash. So, I cut you off and I hung out with them and to be honest this is a decision I never regretted making. I’m so thankful for them, for being there for me, for giving me real talk. Thanks to them, I’m more mature and I understand a little bit more of myself and I’ve gained my independence because of them. They’ve given me so much laughter and courage and they really have changed me for the better. Although there were times that they were harsh on me, but I knew they were joking around. Honestly, they were the best friends I could ever ask for. They were like my older brothers who watched out for me, cared for me, made me smile, and made fun of me. Everything was great. Myself. As someone who use to be broken and depressed over a boy and yearned for love and affection is now over and gone, I’m someone as now who realized I don’t need a relationship in my life, I’ve matured for the better and I’ve realized all I need is them. My friends, my supporters. People who have been there for me since day one. I’ve come to terms where there are days where I’m going feel like crap and shit but that’s just one day. I got plenty of more days ahead of me, for the love of god I’m still young! Every day is a new day, a new start. No matter what happens It’s just a reminder to myself, “good job, you lived another day”. But overall, you must learn how to love yourself, to take care of yourself physically and mentally, don’t let yourself drown. It’s not worth it. You are a number one priority to yourself and don’t ever forget that. We strive for happiness and success because we want to be happy and want to feel at ease knowing our life is stable and happy, don’t we?

You: I’ve heard many things about you, and they were both good and bad. I honestly never knew what went through your head with us or even with her but either way I’m not going to lie. I admit I worried about you every single day, but as a person. Not because I was still in love with you but because I genuinely do care about you. In the beginning when we had the huge argument, you already found yourself a new girl, I assumed you were happy with her I mean you were dating her and you guys did look happy. But as I noticed, and people spoke to me. You weren’t happy, she was a rebound, and you essentially hurt the three of us. She loved you and I knew she did because you were her first, but you on the other hand would always tell her how much you loved me, and always compared her to me. At this point I’m wondering why you were still dating her but even more wondering why she was still stuck to you. Either way what you did was wrong and not the best solution, but as time passed things got worse. You drunk called her telling her you loved me and drunk texted me telling me how much you missed me. How can I not be hurt? How can she not get hurt? You fucked up, but you apologized and realized your actions. Time kept passing and I assumed things got better and you guys were finally stable, and you finally loved her. I was wrong, you loved her in the wrong way. You abused her mentally and physically, BUT SHE STILL WAS WITH YOU. I wondered every single time why she went back to you even though she knew it was wrong. It was just absurd and ridiculous how could she still stay with you even though you treated her like shit, and she knew it too? Maybe she was blind by love? It never made sense. But for me to still worry about you felt so surreal. Why was I still worrying about someone like you who hurt me? Who hurt her? Either way I hoped you changed for the better, to ask for help when you’ve fallen to your darkest place. I would love to help you, trust me, but, how can I? It wasn’t my place anymore. I realized I pointed out your flaws, but I also remembered the good things I’ve heard. Where you treated her right and spoiled her and helped her, and made her stay on top of academics, you did everything for her. But I guess essentially, she couldn’t do everything for you. Not only that but with all seriousness I can’t say you have changed for the better. Yourself. It looked like you drove yourself in a ditch and sat there doing nothing but let it get worse and worse. You asked me to change for the better and I can finally say and feel confident that I have changed for the better, but I changed for myself not for you. I hope and wish you change for the better for yourself, and snap back into reality to get your life together and be happy and stress free, but after all this is all up to you.  

A letter to myself and yourself, a reminder for both you and me, to remind for the both of us of our actions and where it all went wrong. A reflection letter to realize who we were back then. Immature teenagers who didn’t know better but to think our first love was going to last forever and was going to last till the very end and it would be a fairytale ending we hoped for.

Myself; Yourself

[icharchivist]

i know last post is a joke and it's bc chikage clearly has issues and like i say that all the time that i have 0 standarts but also I'm joking when i say that :( he has a lot of fascinating elements to him and he's much better than that...

(fucktons of spoilers for act 2 underneath) (also it got long)

yeah chikage has a terrible start in the story and he sure has flaws but he's also like a chara who canonically tends to repress his trauma and i could argue that a lot of his bad traits come from that in particular and i have so much sympathy for it (even more so since he begs for help about being saved from it in his character song)

to me it's someone who's been thrown into an awful situation and coped as he could, the fact he considers truth a weakness is indication that he could never feel safe being truthful, and the circumstances of his grief really put the fact he has unhealthy coping mechanism on fire to burn the only person he still cared about.

not to mention i think there's something just to be said about his dedication to stay in the organization to protect hisoka because it's the acknowledgement that his hands are so dirty anyway that he can keep dirtying them if it means he can protect the people he loves, but like again, in his song he begs to "be saved from this fate" so i doubt it's something he's doing because he truly doesn't mind - August wanted to free him too after all, and he knew Chikage better than anyone.

and imo there's a layer of self hatred that comes with being dedicated in staying the monster. just like also in citron's arc he accepts to be "the villain" again and be hated if that's what Citron needs of him, Chikage has no fun at all about it and he doesn't even bother to lie about it either which imo shows how much he's throwing his life away for others.

not to mention his lies are also a reflexion of that - by denying others of knowing about him he's sacrificing a part of his identity to keep everyone's safe and imo the fact he was truthful to Tsuzuru about that ways before he considered the spring troupe family (and that the lie he tells tsuzuru to get him to protect himself is still based on half truth) show that it's not something he's doing out of joy and that even at his worst he still considered ways to protect those people (even if it was for something as simple as he projected August on Tsuzuru that time)

also i do think a few of his deeper lies are based on half truth which i find fascinating. the story he tells Tsuzuru clearly is supposed to evoke August and Hisoka. The lie he tells Sakyo about where he was with Izumi is based on, if you boil it down, "making things right for your sibling" which is still exactly what happened then.

also to anyone who called his lies gaslighting, please actually research what gaslighting is because it's not what he's doing. it's not a synonym for lying. gaslighting implies wanting to make their victim doubt their reality by enforcing that their recolection of an event was made up by them and remplacing said recolection by a lie. it's a manipulation tool to make people think they cannot even trust themselves. and it is a paterns, not a one off thing, because it's a form of long term abuse. Chikage always says he's lying about himself, not about what people think they know, he made it clear that people shouldn't trust what he's saying, the only "lie" he keeps up is about his identity and it's to protect everyone, even in the end he tells Sakyo that he wishes he could tell the truth but he can't share it. "Rather than fooling others, i'm better at fooling myself" as he says in his character song. also another indication than his lies are a coping mechanisms to set distance with his own feelings and keeping people from getting too close, not to manipulate others. (note also that as far as i can tell he never lied to Hisoka, ie the only person who actually knows him).

when people love or relate to a character who sees themselves as the villain, as the monster, there's deeper truth that can be unveilled for that.

and if he's honest about it, considering his thoughts on his mother and step dad(s) i think there is a deep cut into his ability to trust others because of that situation and it is so deep that it's probably more arguments on why he closed himself to this point. also i know ppl are mad at the direction this took and yeah i get it but it's a him problem, he just doesn't want to be touched and I'm still mhmmm at the amount of trust you must have lost from your parents to get to such a level of repulsion.

but without even going that deep a lot of Chikage's fans I've met are Gekka fans and they're especially emotional over his dynamic with Hisoka and his attempts to now make things right toward him. and imo part of the reason Chikage doesn't apologize (which i saw people being angry about) is because he doesn't even forgive himself for the things he's done, he's doing the right thing now because he wants to protect what he loves but i don't think he deserves to be forgiven, which is why he also tried to run away that one time, before he could have this one convo with Hisoka when they talked about their shared trauma.

(tbh add the lyrics to Scarlet Game where Hisoka says "but only i was forgiven" because he's the only one who got out of the organization in the end and allowed to move on while it acknowledge that as long as Chikage remains in the organization he is stuck unable to move on from the horrible things he has done and will do for it. Chikage is like trapped and he picked that fate to make sure Hisoka was safe but it's so sad.)

I'd also argue that considering act 2 acts in pair, with the spring and winter chapter foiling each other and summer and autumn doing so as well, Chikage's family mistrust and how it impacted him can and should be set in parallelism with Guy's situation, because both seem to have been coping with their mother's poor decisions in men and the neglect that followed in letting their kids being hurt and repressing themselves because of that and joining organization where both could be tools with a distance toward their emotions. tho that does rely on Chikage telling the truth about that one thing but so far I'd tend to believe it.

Chikage's copings are a dumpfire and it doesn't help that his grief was so raw that he just fucked up everything, but the amount of trauma that hides underneath is so compelling to me.

also lbr but i also don't trust someone who keeps a potion used to comit suicide on him at all time is someone who is completely at peace with his life. the organization likely wired in all gekka that their lives didn't matter and that they should throw it out for the organization and imo it gave them a unhealthy rapport to death. even the fact Chikage did threatens Hisoka that he "should not come back alive if August dies" the aftermath showed that it's not something Chikage seriously thought. imo i believe Chikage believed that, but when he learnt of Hisoka's death he must have felt partially responsible and realized the weight of his words. while it's an horrible thing to say the fact Hisoka rolled his eyes at it means, imo, that they were both wired in not setting values into their lives anyway. and considering how quickly Hisoka tRIED TO KILL HIMSELF i would actually bet that it extends to Chikage. i believe both of them were wired with suicidal thoughts they could easily act on. again, the fact August tempered with the potions imo really show he expected both brothers one day to kill themselves and he tried to prevent that blaming himself for it. so yeah while what Chikage told Hisoka was awful, they were probably both raised with that mindset, Chikage realized too late the weight of this mindset and has now an opportunity to fix it, but i also think it shouldn't be brushed off that Hisoka acted on it and tried to kill himself and that by all account, Chikage would have a similar thought process.

(also feel like it reflects in their character song of suicidal idealization but in different ways: Hisoka of not wanting to wake up, to keep living in a dream because reality frightens him and he's scared of himself, while Chikage's would probably be more about how he feels like he cannot be saved from his fate. that's overreading though but i think about it a lot)

ALSO (this is the fourth time I'm editing this post with an addition) his spice addiction is something to consider bc I've read a thread about it once and, it seems that, spices unleash specific chemicals that sends a pain reaction to the brain that is answered with andorphine to ease the pain and it is what brings joy out of it. Chikage eats an ungodly amount of spice which is already alarming, he mentions it's the only food he can bear to eat but it took him a long while to appreciate it, so the guy just needed Homemade Chemicals to be stable and ironically those involve pain. it also can product an addiction and we know Chikage feels it that way bc of his "I'm in spice withdraw" line and that in his vampire backstage when he tries to stop eating spice it reflects on his mood a lot, Hisoka gets alarmed by how much of a bad mood Chikage is in. so like... it's not healthy for Chikage to do that and while now he probably eats spice just to eat it and the chemical reactions doesn't do as much effect (like coffeeaddiction) it still is that Chikage had to find ways to cope with his life and now he can't really let go and it's super sad to me?

and it's honestly incredible because i started this post wanting to share very personal reasons Chikage's arc echoed with me but instead with the preface alone it's a character meta that just stands on its own, so like, feel that i feel all of that for him while also having deeply personal reasons to connect with him. (not relate tho, not... really, but connect and feel sympathy)

so yeah i know I'm also one to joke about my low standarts when it comes to how i love Chikage because he has glaring flaws but all i see is a wounded man and i feel so much for him and imo there's a lot, lot of reasons to feel sympathy for him.

so yeah i love Chikage bye.

[carnation-damnation]

Open letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OqigCz2S1w

When I first found out about this game, I had a negative feeling about it.

I had thoughts like “the game looks ugly”, “It probably isn't good.”

The first time I watched a playthrough, my entire perspective changed.

I'm not sure what it was about it, but, I just loved everything.

Every character had something wrong or some sort of secret or flaw that Frisk helped them defeat just by being around them.

It was beautiful, the overworld sprites, not so much, but the colours were amazing.

The creativity and the decision-making was shining through with each region Frisk went to.

I played it for myself, although not blind.

I could see for myself how good this game was.

The music was heartwrenching, and I'll never forget the time when I started crying while reading through the text from the monsters relaying Chara and Asriel's story.

When, actually, their story was even worse than I thought.

I couldn't understand why such a small game that would probably only last about five hours could do this to me.

I've never had such an experience where a video game made me love fictional characters so much.

There's just so much content in this game to explore. So many NPC's, so many unused games files, sound files, so many unanswered questions, and so many headcanons to explore that I don't even think I'm a third of the way done with this game.

Even though Undertale itself has become a game where most people find out about it from the bad side of the fandom, I'm never going to let that discourage me from loving this game for what it is.

This game is about two children who, despite their differences, became best friends until one decided to give up their soul for the benefit of their family.

Until things just went wrong.

Think of this like a possible open letter, I guess.

A positive vent?

I'm not so sure.

But besides that, have a nice day, everyone.

[askdreemurrsiblingsthree]

Danu and Brighid for all three?

Mom and I are really close. I know she gets really nervous about me sometimes, and sometimes it’s annoying, but she did lose other children before me. I think she’s becoming a little less afraid she’s going to lose us, though, at least when we’re home. 

I have a few mixed feelings about dad, though. I know he really cares about us, and that he’s sorry for what he’s done, but he did make some bad decisions in the past. I know I made quite a few decisions I regret too, but I still can’t help but think of what he did every so often, even when I’m enjoying hanging out with him. 

-Frisk

My feelings on Mom and Dad? Boy, you picked tough questions.

When I was younger, I kind of thought both of them were perfect, you know? I thought my mom was the nicest person in the world and couldn’t do anything wrong, and that dad always knew what the right thing to do was and that I couldn’t measure up to him. 

While I still love my parents, and I still think my mom’s the nicest person in the world, I understand now that they’re pretty flawed people too. Both have good intentions, but maybe not the best ways of trying to help? 

Understanding that my parents are people and not perfect heroes kind of changed my relationship with them, I think, and my rough patch before Frisk saved us changed it even more. I still love them, but I hesitate before asking them for help. 

-Asriel

I love Mom and Dad and admire them both. I wish I could be like them, but, as I am human, and not a very nice one at that, I know I will always fall short. I guess that makes me admire them even more. 

-Chara

[sweetdreemurrs]

1. The swearing and capitalization was purely for emphasis. I'm actually don't even swear IRL. I simply felt that emphasis is needed due to the fact that I have had these debates before with these people.

2. I understand that each character is suffering. I'm the one arguing that the most often actually. If you go through their blog and mine you can find several posts where I have depicted Asgore and Toriel as equals while they put Toriel on a pedestal and demonize Asgore. In fact, I can easily link you to countless discussions about these topics and more.

3. Toriel did not force Frisk to fight. Quite the opposite. If you remember the context, Toriel was merely attempting to scare Frisk but would never seriously harm them. Think of it as being the same as a grounding, spanking, or love tap. (Granted, those are all different measures of punishment but you get the idea.)

4. Simple. Sans is nihilistic due to his past and is too lazy to do much other than laugh and support his bro. Papyrus tries to reassure himself that he is popular despite the fact he is essentially a nobody. (No offense to him.) Alphys has depression and dependency issues although that is fixed by her admissions and everyone's acceptance. Undyne is impulsive and destructive and actually had to serve community service once. Mettaton attempted to separate himself from his past so that he could rise to stardom. Ignoring his humble beginnings caused his ego to swell. Asriel was sheltered and didn't have any other friends besides Chara, making them easily influenced. Flowey only had fragments of Boss Monster soul, essence, dust, etc. and thus lacked much of a superego, allowing his id to run the show out of frustration and curiousity. Chara was a child who likely came from a broken family or several bad foster families which might explain why they hated humanity so much.

5. Asgore and Toriel's flaws and positives are the following:

Asgore is a bit slow to new concepts and tends to be more passive. As a result he can be a pushover which led to him being forced into a situation he could not get out of. His family is everything so he was understandably furious when his children were killed. Without his family, he is a broken man and was only able to wear a true smile when he was going to sacrifice himself to save Frisk and the entire underground. He wanted to see his wife and children so badly which further worsened his depression.

However, due to his style of thinking, he was able to plan ahead. Thus, Alphys was hired to find an alternative way while he ordered spike removals and other safety precautions. While it was a very slow process, he was slowly able to pacify most of the Underground which helped Frisk befriend the monsters.

Toriel is open to new concepts but is quick to judge and can be very rash in her decision making. Due to her stubborness, she is very difficult to reason with and she often faces internal struggles as she is often too stubborn for her own good. (Should Frisk stay/go, who is at fault; Asgore or the monsters, should she forgive Asgore since she is equally guilty?, etc.) Due to her thinking style, she left New Home in a hurry soon after Asgore's declaration instead of trying to reason with the monsters or literally any other possible solution. She did seem to realize the flaw in her plan upon reaching the Ruins but her stubborness forbade her from returning. Thus, she convinced herself that keeping the fallen humans in the Ruins was the safest plan of action while Asgore stalled for time.

I could list a lot more but I've done tons of Asgore and Toriel character essays, analyses, etc. which you can easily find and/or I can link you.

6. You are mixing up her genocide and betrayal dialogue. Either way, I've done analysis on them before. In Genocide she asks, "Do you hate me that much?" before dying. For her betrayal she mentions that you are just like 'them'. This further alludes to the fact that she feels that her people betrayed her and that she feels they are to blame. Not Asgore. In fact, she never blames Asgore. The only thing she critiques him on is that he could have theoretically used one soul and carry out a similar plan to their children. Of course her rash words seem to have forgotten that this is the action that lead to their deaths.

7. Several things have alluded to the fact that Asgore is innocent of killing:

Characters imply no one has ever made it to Asgore. This means they died before their bodies were sent to him.

Descriptions of items allude to at least one of the children killing monsters. The tutu and shoes are described as dusty and dangerous.

Where items were found can help us figure out how they died. For instance, Justice/Yellow seems to have fallen from Waterfall to the Dump like Frisk did. Their items were likely knocked off by impact which is how Catty later found them. There are now flowers in the area which could have been put there by Asgore as a memorial and to prevent any more dangerous falls.

8. Again, I've done countless essays on these characters, lore, science, monster biology, etc. I know this game front and back. I, and several others, am simply done with people's bullshit. (Crackshipping and/or extremely poor logic without evidence.) As a result, I don't sugarcoat things much. But trust me, I could be much, much, meaner. You are lucky I sugarcoat things at all. I have the evidence to back up my statements unlike others and that should be enough.

You know, I'm a bit confused about why you think Asgore himself would be a toxic individual. While i definitely agree that the relationship itself would be toxic for both parties due to how much both dreemurrs have hurt each other, what we see of Asgore's behavior toward others seems fairly nice? I mean, I think in game dialogue is enough to determine how kind hearted Asgore is towards other monsters. I feel like it's more what they've been through than Asgore himself that makes asgoriel toxic.

Ok..You’re right you’re being very civil i apreciate it.. i was just madAnnoying asgoriel shippers who cross tag in the soriel tag and dont look at toriels point of view made me dislike asgoreBut the character himself isnt badThe relationship would be toxic because they would be constantly be reminded of what happend to them and asgore would be haunted by what hes done of courseBut toriel would be looking at her old love with heartbreak cause that was the man who killed her children those children she tried to protect who most likely before frisk escaped the ruins to be murdered soon after or when they got to asgore When he didnt have to not only give those monsters false hope and murder those she tried so hard to protect But scared herWe dont know what happend between them he could have terrified her she could have clawed his face she could have walked away without saying a word and he didnt stop her cause he was intent on going through with this crazy ideaWhat we do know is it would be INSANE that they would work it out enough to be together again and act like nothing happendExample: If a friend of yours got back with their partner after they had sex with someone else do you think that they could just let that go? And have a healthy relationship again? What if said partner did something more serious like trying to kill theyre beloved pet/child? Or hurt them? You think even if said partner was kind to everyone it would be ok?Or changed and has always been a nice guy? No-Mod burgerpants