#i know there's versions of Clark learning a ton of languages or writers come up with wacky ways for Kara to know english already

[jesncin]

hi, I just read your ask about the "true kal-el/clark kent" and your answer about now it's reductive to try and pin him into one box or another when in truth he'd surely have a nuanced and potentially complex relationship to these two facets of his identity. really interesting and well-said stuff!

further to that, how do you see the constructed persona of Superman: Man of Tomorrow fitting in with this question of identity?

I know that in some stories the costume is/is inspired by kryptonian garb and in others it's not really, and that in some stories he uses the superman persona as a public outlet to live as a man from krypton while in others he tries to hide that side of himself from the public (although usually not for long, like in sstk) and I'd be really interested to see your take on how the superhero dual identity can relate to the immigrant dual identity

Thank you!! I'm glad people enjoy my musings about Immigrant Superman, haha. And this is another fun question! There's a ton of versions with how Clark comes to terms with the persona of Superman all with varying levels of a different diaspora Superman reading- personally I am really fond of the SSTK version.

Some versions have it so Clark is bestowed the Kryptonian clothes and House of El symbol, but in SSTK Clark gets the idea to present Superman as The World's Strongest Strongman, inspired by circus performers' colorful costumes in a deliberate move to look less intimidating.

Then we have Ma Kent sewing Clark's Superman costume, translating the "othering alien symbol" into a "S in a funny diamond shape", letting people interpret the symbol to mean the "S" in Superman. What I love about this version is we get to see Clark very relatable-y fear alienation and xenophobia by attempting to present himself as the most palatable, model-minority American Man ever. He doesn't debut as Kal-El the alien, he debuts as Superman! The Strongest Super MAN on Earth.

If this kind of Immigrant Superman characterization were to continue, I see Clark's relationship to the Superman persona as his outlet to be the approximation of so many identities that he can't quite have all the way. In the beginning of SSTK, Superman was his attempt to be the human approximation of an alien. Afterwards, once he's formally come out as an alien immigrant and can more comfortably showcase and explore his alien powers, the Superman persona becomes his means of connecting to Kryptonian culture. He's not going to emulate being a Born and Raised Kryptonian perfectly, since he's adopted and came to his alien roots later in his life- but his "S" was also a humanized translation of an alien symbol. His costume is now how the only representation (before Supergirl) of an extinct culture. Would he be able to communicate in Kryptonese perfectly? I'd like to think he struggles with it, as many migrants do with learning languages later in life- especially on their own.

Couple all this with the fact "Superman" is the public persona while "Clark Kent and "Kal-El" are his secret identities, makes his journey of connecting to his roots all the more complicated. Because he's doing all that reclamation of an extinct culture while the world watches.

That's how I see it anyway! I feel Superman characterizations that aim to make him "more scifi starting out" and embrace the alien side of him ("make the suit more scifi and less circus strongman!") to be lackluster because they're not taking advantage of Clark being a step removed from Krypton. How Clark presents Superman, from his mannerisms, to the outfit, the anxieties around his alien identity, and which powers he chooses to showcase is an opportunity to tell a compelling story.

[blueraith]

The way fandom characterizes certain characters...

Bothers me. I usually don’t speak out much against this stuff, preferring to ‘rectify’ these kinds of issues with fics of my own, and my own take on these certain characters. Characters that the fandom, for whatever reason, has decided that they don’t like and will portray them as terribly as possible.

Now, most of the time, this is done by warring ships. Those, I don’t particularly care about. Shipping wars have lasted forever, and I will easily write a fic or two about this kind of thing to fix my inner disquiet.

Parents, on the other hand, are the other. And this makes it so much harder for me to personally fix. I don’t know if it’s because fanfiction is written by a large number of young people, or what, but it’s clear that some of these authors can’t seem to recognize that problematic parental figures are not always abusive pieces of garbage with no redeeming qualities.

I have mommy issues the size of Texas. I know this. It’s typically the reason why, in my original work, the mother figures in my works are never the problem parent. It hits too close to home. I write what I wish I could have had. Which is probably depressing and a little pathetic, but it is how I’ve coped for a very long time.

I read an embarrassing amount of fanfiction. Typically because I am super Gay(TM) and have to depend on either dead ships (fucking bury your gays trope can go light itself on fire in a fucking dumpster) or crack ships. Either way, I’ve gotten ridiculously good at perusing and finding virtually anything I could possibly imagine by learning the most common ways people tag, summarize, or title their works. Usually, I will go into a specific fandom, read through the most recently updated stuff first, then get into the most kudos’d/favorited stuff next, then go into character tags, and then finally start searching additional tags or search terms for things that didn’t quite cure my itch for certain topics. This typically takes me a period of two weeks or so. After I’ve exhausted everything I could imagine, was interested in, or what was available, I leave for about four to six months, and then come back to start the process all over again.

Like I said, I read a shit ton of fanfiction. And I learn how the fandom thinks in broad strokes. There are fandom versions of certain characters. They are, for the most part, in character, but there’s this odd ‘fandom’ spin that writers of fanfiction have either created themselves or have latched onto and that thing will permeate throughout the entire section of the fandom. Be it a quote, behavior, or personality. One example would be Maggie, in a shit ton of fics, will find some way to mention that she’s a “detective, Danvers. I detect.” Like it’s her motto rather than a witty one-liner she said one episode and never mentioned again.

But that’s the most minor example of this issue. The most extreme would be the way the fandom characterizes Eliza Danvers. Now, I know her past. I know that she was hard on Alex. It was a plot arc that hit uncomfortably close to home for me. A mother who is far too hard on her eldest child and charges said child to take care of their younger sibling(s) to the detriment of their own well-being. It is a form of emotional abuse. One that I have, unfortunately, lived myself. Also the sheer, crippling fear of failure or of being a disappointment to said mother that Alex feels is another plot point that hits too close to the mark for me. The fact that Eliza acted as she did is not the issue I have with her role in fanfiction.

No, I have a huge problem with how most writers completely ignore her character arc and her continuing development with Alex and act as though she is still as awful as she had ever been at her worst. A low point that we only get the barest of glimpses of on screen in season 1. It’s maddening. Why? Because if my mother ever looked me in the eye and told me that she was proud of me and made a mistake in how she’s been treating me for the past several years, and then took steps to fix the problem, I’d fucking.... Shit, I don’t even know, guys. I’d be fucking ecstatic, to say the least. Because Eliza Danvers has been working on easing up on Alex. You can see it in what little we get of her in season 2.

(I may have also searched high and low for Alex and Eliza scenes on YouTube in order to find out if their relationship did indeed get any better. It did, btw.)

We can see the start of this in season 1, first of all, when Eliza breaks Myriad’s control over Alex by telling her how proud she and Jeremiah are of her. Without framing that pride around Kara. She specifically spoke only about Alex in that scene.

Season 2 Thanksgiving is rather telling in that Alex is still stressed out by her mom. And I don’t think that is because of any particular ugliness Eliza has shown her recently. Mostly because of her continuing actions in this season, but one also has to consider that, perhaps, Alex only got drunk in order to come out to her mom because she was emotionally scarred. This kind of trauma just doesn’t evaporate overnight. For god’s sake, Alex is like 27-28 and she still has a crippling fear of disappointing her mother. That’s not healthy, and it’s not something that will fix itself over a short period of time. I do not think Alex acted as she did because Eliza is still trying to be as hard on her as she used to be. (Not that I think she immediately turned perfect either, but that she has likely been working on being better.) But that’s not going to make a difference on the kind of emotional toll it has taken on Alex over the past 14 years.

And this suspicion of mine is further supported by just how freaking great Eliza was when Alex did actually come out to her. Eliza made some very specific word choices in that conversation. Alex has forever had an inferiority complex as far as her mother is concerned, but also as a more general flaw in her character. Eliza specifically calls her exceptional for a reason. I think she’s perfectly aware of how terrified Alex was to come out to her. For one thing, if she missed that Alex was really fucked up on Thanksgiving, then she’s super fucking blind because an infant could have spotted how hammered Alex was. And I think she did, because Eliza says that she knew Alex had been trying to tell her something. Not us. Not everyone at Thanksgiving. Her. Then there is the fact that Alex was moved to tears over her coming out, and that she had to choke out her fears that Eliza wouldn’t accept her. I mean, you can’t be any more clear than that in giving your parent the message that ‘you’ve made me really fucking terrified over whether or not you even love me.’ Eliza has proven to be very observant over these past two seasons. I don’t think she missed that firework display of insecurity that Alex set off there.

Then there’s the Danvers Family Reunion dinner in 2x14. First, we have Eliza giving Maggie a hug right off the bat, didn’t even blink an eye. I have no doubt that the only reason Alex went through with her extremely quick, yet hesitant, kiss on Maggie’s cheek right before that was because both Kara and Eliza supported her. She was stressed about Jeremiah in that scene, not Eliza, and I think that speaks for how their relationship has improved since her coming out. In that same episode, after Mon-el acts like an ass and accuses Jeremiah a few minutes later, Maggie is the first to bring Alex down from her anger, but if you watch Alex throughout the whole background of that scene, specifically as Jeremiah is walking Mon-el out, Alex is being comforted by Eliza. Again, more support that things are better between them. Alex could have easily stuck with Maggie in this scene. TV rarely does anything by accident. Eliza and Alex in the background together in this scene was done deliberately and it was developing their relationship further through body language. Specifically, I believe Eliza and Alex were facing each other, and Eliza was rubbing Alex’s arm in comfort. Doesn’t get much more clearer than that.

(Also, who the fuck accuses somebody of suspicious activity at their fucking family reunion? I know I’m behind in Supergirl, I’ve honestly not watched a ton of Mon-el simply because he is not a lesbian nor a sister of someone on this show. I am not about to unilaterally label him as a terrible person or anything because I know next to nothing about him. But for real. This scene gave me a bad taste in my mouth for him. Time and place, dude. Presumably, you at least have J’onn’s phone number. Call him up after dinner and share your concerns. Privately. Away from Jeremiah’s celebrating family. Jesus Christ.)

Anyway, the next thing I’m aware of, as far as Eliza scenes are concerned, is when Jeremiah goes through with the betrayal. She rushes into the DEO, and goes to Alex to comfort her. Kara is conspicuously absent in their conversation. She’s having her own conversation, but Alex was just in that same conversation with Kara. She was called away by Eliza by name. Eliza didn’t call out for both Kara and Alex. Just Alex. Because she probably knew that Alex would take Jeremiah’s betrayal much harder than Kara would.

I don’t know. I see this a lot. The 1OO have fanfic writers shitting on Abby. Vampire Academy has folks dumping on Janine. It seems parents are a sore spot for most folks. Trust me, I get it, but personally? I prefer to see these relationships improve, as they do in actual canon. (At least as far as Supergirl and VA are concerned. I have no idea about Abby and Clarke’s relationship because I didn’t get far enough in to find out.) Because it gives me a bit of catharsis that, even if it’s fiction, at least somebody is improving their relationships with their mothers. Because God only knows how much I want that for myself.

Whether its stories that repeatedly have Eliza holding Alex to ridiculous standards, standards she’s seemed to have abandoned for the most part in canon, or if it’s a high-school AU and they make Eliza really fucking homophobic (???? Like, that didn’t even happen in the show? Where does that come from????), there’s a lot of hate out there for her. And it bothers me. Because it’s extremely unlikely that I will be able to write something of my own over this subject in Alex’s voice. That’s the only way I’d be able to do it (because it would be Alex’s POV that I’m the most familiar with on this subject), and if I tried to go through with it, it would bring up a shit load of emotions that I am currently not able to deal with at the moment. This is a rare occurrence for me. I’m not used to having this kind of idea in my head and not being able to actually sit down and write it. I’ve compartmentalized a lot of shit I feel about my own mom, and even writing this rant has got me thinking too much about our relationship and the disappointment I know she will feel towards me very soon.

Okay, end of that paragraph. Can’t get into that. I don’t know. I don’t expect this to change anything. People will write what they will. I guess I’m wondering if I’m the only one who even thinks about this. I’ve been on a fic binge, I’ve seen this phenomenon a lot recently and it’s hit close to home and I’m feeling a bit fatigued over it. I harp on my less than perfect relationship with my mom enough in real life. I guess it feels more like a punch in the gut when I’m reading fanfic, have gotten like six chapters in, and suddenly “LOOK! LOOK HOW TERRIBLE THIS CHARACTER’S PARENT IS! aREN’T THEY THE WORST????” Like, yeah, I guess.... Because these scenes are almost always over the top. There’s no nuance. No one sticks up for anyone. It’s typically a scene of the parents just shitting on the kid, and geez.  As if I don’t already live that. I suppose this is how some people vent, but ohhh. It’s definitely not how I do it.

Maybe I’m just a tad more sensitive about this than usual.