#i know the first 2 seasons like i know my own name but post 3x11 is where it starts getting fuzzy

[timelessbian]

the funny thing about ouat is that we really were all watching completely different versions of the same show bc i straight up do not remember half of what goes on in the later seasons, but then it'll hit the obligatory sq scene and i'll realize ohhhh it's this episode and by funny i mean i want a&e on trial for their crimes

[swanqueensalad]

Is your question thingy still on? if so, would you rate top10 episodes to watch if you want swanqueen :)

ahhh this is such a good question!! and my ask box is literally always open for anything, i love chatting with y'all <3

this is Not a comprehensive list, just ten great ones that come to mind (plus two bonus ones and a lot of rambling bc, as always, i got carried away).

i've tried to put them in chronological order for the show!

1. a land without magic (1x22)

don't get me wrong, there's a lot of incredible swan queen episodes in season one (the pilot, desperate souls, that still small voice) but the content in finale just does something to me man...

emma pinning regina against the wall, the intensity of the confrontation and regina admitting everything, the way they're instantly a TEAM despite all that fury and heartache because henry comes before anything else, the literal entire sequence paralleling charming fighting maleficent and saving snow to emma fighting maleficent and saving regina, i -

2. broken (2x01)

feel like this a bit of a rogue one since, again, s2 has lots of good stuff, but there's a LOT going on in the premiere! emma promising to protect regina for henry (which we know develops into this kind of sacred oath she fulfils at her own peril over and over throughout the years) and being so attentive to her, saving her from the mob, helping her to her feet, human-shielding her, and the look on regina's face when emma's touch restarts her magic and opens a portal to another realm - the literal requirements for 'true love'. so, so good.

3. the cricket game (2x10)

a classic. emma starting to not only see but fight for the woman regina really is. this strange developing trust and respect, the desire to not be enemies for a brief second before it goes wrong again.

4. and straight on til morning (2x22)

i will never be able to scream enough about the sq development in the s2 finale. regina being the most vulnerable and herself in front of emma, begging her to let her die as herself because she knows she's the only one who could understand and grant her that - and emma not letting her, emma jumping in and finding their shared magic together for the first time to save each other and everyone else. emma speechless, seeing everything regina feels for henry.

also "you might not be strong enough but maybe we are" is one of my favourite swan queen lines, because i think it just sums up the whole ship!

5. going home (3x11)

jumping to the 3A finale, what can i say? once again, as always when it comes to henry, they are a team above all else. the group hugs, henry calling them 'mom, mama', emma being a human shield again, regina whispering her name as she wakes up, ready to give emma everything she ever wanted for herself and their son.

the incredibly intimacy and intensity of their goodbye and all those things unsaid and unfinished between them. *chefs kiss*

6. breaking glass (4x05)

ok so despite the stupid frozen arc, season 4 is actually one of my favourites for swan queen content, bc you have emma promising to give regina a happy ending in the premiere and seeing that all the way through to sacrificing herself for her in the finale. and that's what dreams are made of.

i specifically mention breaking glass bc there's so much sq screen time. emma is gutted that regina thinks she'll never have her back, literally follows her around all episode trying to prove the opposite (in the same way hook follows her around lmao), elsa telling emma not to give up on her.

and there's that gorgeous scene where emma is so honest with her about the two of them having something special and unique and different from what they have with anyone else, and that hopeful 'it's a start' ... i ...

7. operation mongoose (4x22)

what would be a list of top tier swan queen episodes without the climax of all that 'fighting for her happiness' - the saviour sacrificing herself to the darkness to save regina. this was truly the peak of ouat i swear to go d

also lots of nice stuff in the alternate reality with emma, henry and regina!

(before i move on from season 4 i do have to mention bonus episode: lily - emma's super gay fucking backstory, regina telling her she needs her, the first (?) swan queen road trip!, regina talking emma down from shooting lily/beating up that dude because she believes so strongly in emma's goodness)

8. dreamcatcher (5x05)

i remember after this episode came out, there was a post circulating of a bunch of c$ fans saying they were literally worried sq was becoming canon/getting undeniable.

so yeah. everything in this episode is pure gold. the swan mills family dynamics, regina trusting emma with her most painful memory, emma crying over the dreamcatcher, and that deliciously tense argument on regina's porch that was so electric it made sq feel inevitable. ('don't miss swan me, we've been through too much' is another favourite line!)

9. only you (5x22)

swan queen road trip, them being married af the whole time plus regina once again being her most open and vulnerable with emma? what more do you need

10. wish you were here (6x10)

this is another episode i don't think i can ever scream about enough - there's just so much to unpack! firstly, emma becoming enfuriated and attacking the evil queen because she's upsetting regina. secondly, regina thoughtlessly wishing to be sent after emma to get her back. thirdly... emma swan waking herself up from a curse and remembering who she is, sparking her own magic back to life, because even in her most cursed unknowing state she had to save regina mills.

how do you ever get over that (also they're so soft together once emma's awake, i...)

honorable mentions go to

enter the dragon (4x15) - for regina's gay backstory with mal, emma being insanely protective of regina and literally following her around all night super unhappy about her being in danger ('if i see anything i don't like i will come in blazing' oof) all the while regina is doing it to protect emma in return, jesus christ -

birth (5x08) - purely for the scene at the well where regina begs emma to tell her why she's hanging on to the darkness (aka begging emma to admit she loves her, while emma is being super repressed but they both know that's what they're talking about)

i'll be your mirror (5x08) - for all that good married sq teamwork content in the mirrorworld, regina admitting she's scared to raise henry alone and emma promising to always be there and never let anything bad happen, and the softness and tenderness of them watching him dance with violet and realising they've done such a good job together... i'm so weak bruh

[travllingbunny]

The 100 (re-) rewatch: 4x12 The Chosen

4x12 The Chosen

While this is the only penultimate episode in the first 5 seasons that isn’t supposed to be the first part of a two-part finale, half of the episode (the storyline with Clarke, Bellamy and the rest of the team on the mission to fetch Raven) is practically Praimfaya, part 1, while the A storyline feels like the season 4 finale for everyone who is still in the bunker(Kane, Abby, Jaha, Octavia etc.), although she gets two more scenes at the start of 4x13, before that storyline gets a direct continuation in the flashbacks of 5x02, Red Queen.  

This episode also feels like the culmination of Kane’s arc. After this, it seemed like the show didn’t really know what to do with him, except to make him a supporting player in the story of Abby’s downward spiral, which really begins here. (I do really like Kane’s final episode in season 6, though.) Jaha will get one last hurray in his important role in Red Queen, but after this, it feels like the leadership baton has really been passed to the younger generation.

My thoughts on the complicated grey moral issues from this episode and season 4 in general got too long when I finished writing them, so I’ve put them in this previous post. 

Other thoughts on the episode are below.

This may be my favorite Abby moment in several seasons: going back on her previous statement that “Maybe there are no good guys” (from the season 2 finale) and telling Clarke that yes, there are good guys, and Clarke is one. She is a hero. It’s also a sign of the show starting to show that moral relativism of that kind is not its final statement on morality. Sadly, Clarke does not quite believe her (as we will see in 5x01, she still tends to think “There are no good guys”, and even after changing her mind and accepting Monty’s message to “Be good guys”, she still doubts in 6x02 that she is one of them – even hearing Abby in her mind, voicing Clarke’s own guilt and self-loathing, telling her she is not one of the good guys.) Instead, she is looking towards Bellamy – wondering if he will forgive her (which he does, just a few hours later) and needing to know if he also thinks that she is one of the good guys.

I’ve always thought that the moment in 4x11 when she aimed a gun at Bellamy and burst into tears as she realized she couldn’t do it, was what finally pushed Clarke to fully understand and admit to herself how she felt about him. When we see everyone at the start of 4x12, Bellamy is brooding and looking at no one, while Clarke is hyper-focused on him.

This is the last time Clarke and Niylah see each other before Praimfaya and the six-year time jump – and it’s a bit sad that Clarke doesn’t even seem to say goodbye to her, but – even though Clarke did care for her and has tried to make sure that she survives, Niylah has probably always known that she was not one of the people Clarke feels most strongly for. That was already obvious in 3x11, when Clarke was focused on Bellamy’s emotional state (even though she had learned Niylah had lost her father). Niylah was a good friend (with occasional benefits) who provided some comfort to Clarke when she was traumatized by Mount Weather and wanted to run away from everyone, when she was grieving for Lexa and when she was feeling the pressure of trying to find a solution to save the human race from the upcoming end of the world, but it was also a way for Clarke to avoid the potential pain of a relationship with someone she really loves. In any case, this short scene is where Clarke barely even sees Niylah or can’t pay attention to her because her focus is elsewhere - is very telling.

Later on, after Bellamy, Clarke and others leave, Octavia saves Niylah when she almost finds herself thrown out by both Grounders and Arkers – which makes her later devotion to Octavia perfectly understandable. Niylah’s laid-back, kind and empathetic nature (she doesn’t blame the Arkers who wanted her to throw her out for being a Grounder and points out it’s a result of people being afraid) seems like a perfect foil to Octavia’s anger. Unfortunately, as we saw in season 5, Niylah proved to be way too adoring of Octavia and unable to challenge her and help her moderate her actions.

During season 6, I’ve seen a comparison made between Abby bringing Kane back through bodysnatching to Kane saving Abby against her wishes in 4x12, but I don’t agree with that: it’s a very different thing to have to actively kill someone you love, and I think it was very unfair of Abby to ask that of Kane. She could have committed suicide instead, like Jasper did. She was not able to do the same herself – she smashed the radiation chamber in order not to risk Clarke’s life, she opened the bunker because she wasn’t able to let Kane die, so why did she expect him to be that strong, or that able to turn off his emotions, to actively kill the person he loves?

What in the world made Jaha think that Octavia would respond well to him, of all people, appealing to her loyalty to Arkers as “her people”? This is the second time in season 4 that a Blake sibling has called out one of the Ark leaders for what they did to them back on the Ark (after Bellamy told Kane “You floated my mother” in 4x07), and I really liked that. Forgiveness is nice, but it’s even nicer when people are not pretending that everything has been forgotten.

We’ve had so many instances of Bellamy saying “My sister, my responsibility”, and in season 5 we’ll get Octavia saying “My brother, my responsibility”, but here we get a unique version of that with her saying “My people, my responsibility”- in the same meaning that Bellamy said “My sister, my responsibility” in 5x08 after poisoning Octavia. Is this the first time she’s called Arkers “my people”? In any case, one noticeable change from seasons 1-3 Octavia is that, in season 4, she no longer says she is a Grounder –which used to annoy me every time, because it made no sense. It’s not like that’s a lifestyle and you choose it and just need to decide you’re a Grounder. By season 4, she seems to have realized that Grounders will always think of her as “Sky girl”, so she doesn’t feel that she belongs to the either group. Until she decides to make them all into one group, Wonkru. (Not that this will end “Us vs Them” divisions – because the Eligius prisoners will become “Them” in season 5!)

It’s not just Indra who’s had an “Enemies to Lovers” relationship with guns! Grounders have now raided the Arker supply to get the guns for the expected battle with them. OK, but how many of them have had even the basic training? We know some did in the camp in season 2. Have they been training the others? Has Indra? On the other hand, not all Arkers are guards or former guards, or Delinquents who needed to train in season 1, and everyone (except maybe Bryan) from the Farm Station is dead, so I don’t know how many Arkers are that good with guns, either, and having half of the numbers of the present Grounders (many – most? – of whom were probably warriors, knowing what Grounder culture values) sure wouldn’t have helped.

I don’t know if this is the first time Jaha has allowed someone (Kane) to change his mind, but it is sure a rare moment, whether he did it because he realized that the last remnants of the human race killing each other a day before the apocalypse was bad for the human race, or because he realized that Arker chances were not the best and that they could have all been killed.

This episode has obvious parallels and contrasts with 1x05 Twilight’s Last Gleaming, and it bookmarks Kane’s arc really well. Unlike the first culling, which Kane deeply regretted when he realized it wasn’t necessary, this one is, but few people are volunteering to die this time. One exception is David Miller, taking himself out of the lottery to give his son more chance to survive – another example of a parent sacrificing themselves for their child, which recalls Tor Lemkin’s sacrifice for his daughter.

In the end, Clarke’s list did end up being significant, but Kane and Jaha still would have a few spots to fill, since some of the people on the list were not there (Raven, Clarke, Bellamy) while Octavia did not count, but since Octavia left them with 99 spots, giving one to Niylah, that means they had 3 spots to fill with others. One of them was Miller (who did get chosen in the lottery) and I’m guessing that the other two were probably also lottery winners that Kane had already announced before the riot started.

The show was still trying to justify its name, with this storyline of having to choose 100 people to survive. Then it gave up in seasons 5-6.

By the end of season 4, and Murphy and Bellamy were still not friends, and Bellamy still didn’t trust Murphy and thought of him as someone who cares only for himself. Clarke had, by that time, spent more time around Murphy post-season 2 and gotten to know him better, and be aware of his love for Emori. But Murphy’s change has been about having someone he loves, and starting to care for his friends – it’s never been about starting to care about general morality or the lives of random people he doesn’t know. He’s never been that guy, so his season 6 arc of wanting to become a bodysnatching Prime wasn’t really a big surprise.

(Interesting how we see characters say this line to or about someone they love._

Murphy was never troubled with ethical dilemmas of whether to sacrifice someone he loves to save a greater number of people, which also means he is really not troubled by the hypocrisy of being angry whenever he or Emori seem deemed disposable, while he’s at the same time treating many other people as disposable. For instance, in 4x08, he was very much in favor of testing someone for Nightblood, pointing out that it can save them all, and even admired Emori for getting that random thief to get tested instead of (potentially her) – and only became upset and angry when it was his girlfriend who was going to be tested. This time, he sounds points to Bellamy that he “killed them” (him and Emori) by opening the bunker, since they have no chance of having a seat saved for them. True enough, but what did he expect? That Bellamy would let his sister die to save him and Emori a spot in the bunker?

The reason Bellamy forgives Clarke pretty quickly after she tells him she’s sorry, is because he completely understands where she’s coming from. And he knows he means to her a lot. Just like he understood her motives in season 5, because he had been there himself – but what upset him in S5 was that he started to think she didn’t care about him. Which is why he immediately forgave her when he realized how wrong he was about that. Bellamy and Clarke can quickly forgive each other because they understand each other better than anyone and can empathize with the tough decisions they have to make.

In this episode, they go back and forth, discussing that issue, whether to try to potentially save everyone, or to save a close friend who would definitely die otherwise. First it was Bellamy calling out Clarke on having been willing to leave Raven out of the bunker to die. Later, Bellamy is the one to bring up saving everyone - suggesting that, if Nighblood works, they should go back so Abby could make everyone Nightbloods; and it’s Clarke who retorts that it would mean that can’t save Raven. (I don’t like when people exaggerate the whole “Head and Heart” thing to the point that they try to make it look like Clarke is always driven by logic and Bellamy by emotion. It is much more complicated than that.) But I don’t know how I’d feel if it turned out that they wasted a chance to save hundreds of people in order to save their friend. This is not the case though, because, as Clarke points out, it’s too late to see Nightblood tested – as it would take days – and they couldn’t even convince people to let them in the bunker if she was sick, let alone start making people Nightbloods based on that.

If Monty and Harper hadn’t come to save the group when they had lost their car, and instead had gone straight to Polis, would they have been left outside of the bunker?

One of the rare interactions between Clarke and Echo happen when Echo tells Clarke: “I was just trying to save my people. Was that so bad?”, and Clarke obviously empathizes with her. Clarke has constantly shown the ability to empathize with people, even her enemies. 

On the other hand, when it turns out that Emori’s suit has been torn a bit and she’s starting to get radiation poisoning, Murphy’s first instinct is to suggest to take Echo’s suit by force, and he points out that she had followed them and saved them just out of self-interest. Which is true, though I don’t think Murphy is right that Echo would’ve attacked them. That wouldn’t have helped her. I think she was waiting for a chance to prove herself useful, make them owe her, so they would let her in the lighthouse bunker, exactly as she told them. Quid pro quo. But the same is true of Murphy and Emori – they are also there on the mission because they want to ensure their own survival, so it’s interesting that Murphy – who tends to sees the worst in people – blames Echo for the same things he’s himself guilty of.

I remember someone arguing that Clarke didn’t sacrifice herself for her friends in 4x13, because she would have died anyway if he didn’t align the satellite dish. True, she would have, but let’s note the fact that Clarke had a guaranteed spot in the bunker and was going to be safe, if she hadn’t gone on the mission to save Raven.

Let’s also note the fact that Clarke gave her helmet to Emori, risking her life again (since she did not know if the Nightblood solution worked), saving both Emori and potentially Echo. Maybe Murphy, too, since I don’t see Echo just going down lightly and letting him take her helmet off. This is the second time she’s risked her life to save Emori’s, a fact that *cough* certain people tend to forget.

Let’s also note the fact that it was Clarke’s idea that they go to the Ring.

Timeline: This episode begins 23 hours before the death wave is to hit Polis, at least according to the characters’ calculations (though those have proven to be unreliable throughout season 4, as the death wave proven to be much faster than anticipated). It’s mentioned that the team going to retrieve Raven will need 10 hours to Becca’s lab on the science island. However, they lost a lot of time because of the attack, losing the car, problems with anti-radiation helmets, before meeting up with Monty and Harper and getting another mode of transport. By the end of this episode, they have arrived to Becca’s lab, and by that time, the death wave has already hit Arkadia, though that’s unimportant as everyone who was there was already dead or had left.

My re-rewatch has also helped me figure out the timeline of season 4 more precisely. At the beginning of 4x04, Roan says it has been 3 weeks since they made the alliance (which means, 3 weeks since 4x01). Since 4x02 was set 9 days since Clarke destroyed the City of Light, this means that these were rare moments when some time passed between episodes: 8-9 days between 4x01 and 4x02, and additional 10-12 days spent in doing repairs on Arkadia, before, during and after 4x03. But since 4x04, things have been happening very quickly: 4x05 started soon after 4x04 (the period of time Octavia needed to reach Arkadia after Ilian found her, and less than the Azgeda army needed to march to Arkadia from Polis), 4x06 on the next morning, and Clarke was already in the lab in 4x07, making it all just a couple of days. And in 4x07, the characters said the death wave was coming in 10 days. So, the entirety of season 4 lasted  just a little over a month (and seasons 1-4, minus the last few minutes of the season 4 finale – a little over 6 and a half months). Not only was ALIE wrong when she thought Praimfaya was coming in 6 months, but Raven’s assessment, made 9 days later, that it was coming in “2 months or less” was not entirely wrong only because it turned out to be less – half of that time.

Body count: Several desperate Grounders who were trying to steal the anti-radiation suits. (What were their further plans, if any? Where did they intend to find shelter during Praimfaya?) One of them practically threw himself in front of the car and was over by Bellamy. “As if he wanted to die”, Clarke said – and he probably did. I can see why a quick death by your own choice and helping your friends would be preferable to a horrific death in a death wave or slowly from radiation. The seven others were killed - six by Echo, one by Bellamy.

Hundreds of other people, including over 300 Arkers, were left outside of the bunker, so while they did not die in this episode, they were practically left for dead, which makes this episode one of the most heartbreaking ones. At least one of them chose it – David Miller, who gave his lottery spot to his son Nathan, in another case of a parent sacrificing themselves to give a chance to their child (which reminds me of the first culling and Tor Lemkin). Ethan’s father (the same guy who was giving speeches against Ilian in 4x06 and who now started the riot with Jaha) is certainly among those who were left outside, asking Jaha to take care of his son. Which we will, but not for long, as Jaha himself would die not long after, during Kara Cooper’s rebellion. Cooper’s husband was also among those left outside, while she was presumably counted as essential personnel.

Rating: 10/10

[elixir448]

This past week: A summary

1. We have had an influx of promos over the past few days, mainly compiled of footage from seasons 1 and 2 with some additional unseen footage from season 3 that the fandom has been alternately salivating and freaking out over.

 • We have another shot of what the fandom is 100% sure is Rio’s hand, placing a gun (notably not his infamous golden gun) in front of a computer. (https://www.instagram.com/p/B8bs4_9JzuS/?igshid=7jx2mam2rss7).

The majority of the voiceover from Beth is from quotes in seasons 1 and 2, although she does state “This person that you knew, they’re just gone”, potentially in the same scene as in the promo below with the customer.

• Beth is clearly struggling with the guilt and trauma of shooting Rio in another promo (https://ggfanatic0.tumblr.com/post/190764519813/new-teaser), wondering in front of a perturbed customer “It’s a shock when someone dies. The lights go out. One last breath. It’s so weird. Cause like did you ever know him at all?”

• Another promo (https://twitter.com/NBCGoodGirls/status/1225926582839074818) with a voiceover from Rio sent the fandom into a frenzy, as we all attempted to discern what he was saying. Our collective efforts have unveiled:

“She tried to put me away.

But she didn’t think things through.

You wanna be the king you gotta kill the king (1x10)

I know her entire bag of tricks

She’s no good / she’s my girl (You guessed it, we are freaked. It most likely is she’s no good)

But we both know how this ends.”

Could he be speaking to Turner? Or another character?

• A Ruby and Stan centric promo was also released, compiled of footage from seasons 1 and 2 (https://twitter.com/NBCGoodGirls/status/1225926715966255104). While there was season 3 footage of Ruby involved with making counterfeit cash and the girls entering a graveyard with spades, there was no new footage.

• We got our first look at JT in season 3, with the girls standing in front of him at the Qwik Cash counter and him saying “you just levelled up” and the girls laughing and smiling. (https://hereliesbethboland.tumblr.com/post/190709556247/came-across-this-its-not-really-new-hahah)

2. A video where members of the cast (Retta, Christina Hendricks, Mae Whitman, Reno Wilson and Matthew Lillard) answered questions regarding season 3 became available.

• Interestingly, certain segments of this video have the voices of the cast blanked out, potentially due to spoilers.

• A huge emphasis has been placed on the efforts the girls will exert in making their counterfeit cash appear legit.

• It has been confirmed that Ruby works in the nail salon for access to chemicals, Beth in the paper store for access to printers and Annie’s valet job was chosen as she would be in receipt of many $1 bills.

• Reno dropped something interesting when asked why people should watch season 3, stating that “extraneous family members get pulled in”. Could we be meeting the extended Hill family or new family members of other characters? Could this refer to the kids being drawn into what their parents are trying to protect them from?

• Matthew Lillard gushed over Manny Montana. He also enjoyed teasing fans by saying that he knows what happened to Rio’s characters after 2x13, that Beth are Dean’s relationship is “ever growing” and Beansie is sexier than Brio. Lol.

• Mae implied that Annie may be slightly less impulsive and more well-rounded, while retaining the qualities that we love!

• Christina and Mae touched on the topic of when the girls should stop, whether they want to stop and their changing reasons for being involved with crime, with Christina stating that their reasons may be more selfish.

3. According to IMDB, Rob Heaps will play Dr Josh Cohen from 3x02 to 3x11. Whose doctor could he be? Or do the girls rope him into their business?

4. A promotional video titled Rinse and Repeat: Get the Dirt on Good Girls was released, featuring 2 ladies in a laundromat discussing and gushing over the last two seasons of the show, with some additional comments from other viewers in the laundromat.

5. The second episode of The Influence of Good Girls, featuring Manny Montana, and aptly named The Crime King was released.

• Manny said that he likes when Beth “gets the jump on Rio”.

• He views Beth and Rio’s motives as being no different, as he has a son and a family as well. He also feels that just as Beth is enamoured with the world that Rio exists in, Rio is also enamoured by the world she occupies.

• He addressed the car scene between Beth and Rio in 2x12, stating that he thinks Rio both does and does not view Beth as work; he viewed her as work from day 1 but he slipped at some point.

• He discussed with Jenna Bans how Rio could ever work with and trust Beth after the events of 2x13, stating that “the way they wrote it, it just made perfect, perfect, perfect sense” and “it’s so good”.

• He feels that season 3 is on a different level, with everybody going through something different and doing their own thing. This may imply that Rio has a few more scenes outwith the girls?

• His favourite storyline this season is Stan’s and we are now terrified for our favourite cinnamon roll.

• He admires Beth for having the balls to take on Rio and try to take over. “It’s a scary world she’s in.”

6. The third episode of The Influence of Good Girls, titled The Perfect Heist, was released. 

7. NBC continues to shock, by acknowledging that Good Girls exists and ramping up their promotional efforts, with billboards, posters and by mentioning the show on their official twitter.

Thank you to everyone who originally posted links to the above information or promo! Also, let me know if I’ve missed anything out!

[unproduciblesmackdown]

ok-yikes replied to your post: diefordarkseid replied to your post: ...

ok but like thank u sm for the link i’ve been vaguely following your winston/billions content and ive been trying to find the context without having to watch the whole thing lmao so now i can fully understand ur analysis and art that i already enjoy!!

oh first of aw!!!! that’s such a compliment lol ty and yes s/o to @winstonthequant for posting that compilation for 5.5k+ people to partake in, it’s super useful

yeah we Jest that all anyone needs to know to understand the Spirit Of Wynnstanning is to have seen those scenes with winston and taylor from kompenso, ep 3x11 lol.....i mean it’s partially a joke but it’s also partially true, that’s pretty much the Cause of the group of us going “oh my god” and becoming Invested in all of this. winnie n tay baby.......their Dynamique...they are way too good Ugh

and yeah the Broadest Of Strokes of this series overall is that the Central Theme is "insufferable bastard hedge fund ceo damian lewis [aka axe] man Versus insufferable bastard attorney general paul giamatti man [aka chuck],” just these corrupt assholes having a back and forth slapfight power struggle every season. nobody cares what happens in season 1 but taylor is introduced at the start of season 2 as a just-out-of-undergrad intern at axe’s hedge fund. turns out they’re amazing at hedge funding (they have some goddamn sense and strategy and awareness, whereas axe is 100% beholden to the whims of his own Delicate Temper and Ego and is a continually self-sabotaging idiot, nbd) and by season 3, while axe is doing a bit of jail time over insider trading (see: previous parenthetical) taylor is left effectively in charge of axe’s hedge fund, which btw is called axe capital

Our Beloved Quant Winston enters the picture 3 eps into this situation, where taylor is attempting to start a quant team at axe cap, hence interviewing him, then only known as “quant kid 2″ in the credits. [not-that-informed explanation of What Is A Quant: where the Traditional Financial Analysts in a hedge fund try to make profitable stonk trades just via like, reacting to The News and other publically available info / whipping up Strategies / intuiting shit and making judgment calls or whatever the hell they do, a Quantitative Analyst (a more recent development in the high finance world) is taking a more mathematical approach to the whole legal gambling operation which is The Stock Market and might, as winston does, use An Algorithm to analyze finance info and make trades in response. is the vague idea here] Quant Kid 2 was not Originally meant to ever reappear, hence him just messing up the interview and getting sent off after like 30 seconds, but they wrote him in further when William Roland showed up and actually filmed the scene. 

when “i’m a shitty bastard driven by my shitty ego and will self-sabotage if my Pride asks for it on a whim” axe shows back up, tl;dr, he spends the rest of s3 being terrible and unappreciative to taylor, who you might imagine is Threatening That Delicate Ego of his by capably taking care of his hedge fund while he was indisposed. for example, he needlessly wrecks taylor’s relationship with a guy they were having a nice time dating (and will, we’re pretty sure, talk to again in s5ep2!! hoorayy) and does basically the opposite of apologizing, sweeps taylor’s Quant Project into the trash, gets mad at them for failing to land a certain investor which he said they did on purpose which idk they May Have lol i think this was later in the season, and won’t give them the raise they want, and that’s just A Few of the bullet points in this topic. but oops, turns out that taylor has been secretly taking steps to put together their own entirely separate hedge fund! which is where winston comes back in, aka their meeting him in that empty classroom only to summon him to a random basement. that algorithm he ends up creating for them (which he’d Assumed was for axe cap purposes) was used by taylor to entice a Big Investor at axe cap to invest in their own hedge fund, taylor mason capital, which exists by the end of season 3, which obviously axe is not happy about and of course it’s a whole ~betrayal~ even though he did it to himself but no, he decides taylor is his Nemesis, b/c in so many ways he is a dumbass. god

season 4 has winston as taylor’s Main Quant (the one time we hear his name spoken aloud is taylor saying “winston and the quant team). taylor spends the season dealing with all the problems of having a Brand New Hedge Fund and having a Well Established Hedge Fund With An Asshole At The Helm constantly trying to sabotage their fund, which we also call tmc / mase cap for short, just for reference lmao, the latter being how they shorten it in the show’s actual dialogue. the Front Running mentioned in that one clip was an instance of such sabotage. and by the time winston shows up 5 eps later, that Fracking Subplot (lmao...this fucking show) was about taylor being reeeeal sick of axe cap’s sabotage b/c they kinda made it personal, and thus spending the whole episode Completely playing axe for a fool, which was kinda fun, b/c it’s not that hard and he has it coming. it gets a little involved with what’s going on in ep 4x11 with the bonuses lmfao but it's nbd, just know that winston was right, we went frantic about him being Bullied and are still indignant about it, and taylor talking to Everyone in that 4x12 clip does seem to address what winston had said, compare and contrast 4 yourselves, even if this apparently went totally over the heads of any Regular Billions Viewers lmao. and then in 4x12 A Lot Happens b/c it’s the finale but axe manages to self-sabotage himself in a way that does a lot of damage for mase cap though, and axe thinks that he’s successfully blackmailed taylor into returning to axe cap with mase cap as a Supposedly Temporary subsidiary of axe cap, which sucks, but taylor is not as blackmailed as he thinks, which is a secret, Drama and Twists and Shifting / Dubious Loyalties and Stonks are just constant themes here and who cares. we are here for the quant, who is there with taylor

We Have Many Ideas / wise concepts and headcanons, seeing as canon is a nightmare and there’s not That much material re: winston and precious few details about him / he spends sooo much time offscreen and unmentioned and it leaves us plenty of blanks to fill in. for example, maybe u noticed we think he should kiss taylor and also get railed by them, there are extensive ideas about that relationship wherein we happily ignore Finance. also, there is an unusually kind and reasonable analyst over at axe cap named ben kim who we also think should kiss winston, so yeah That idea is sure around as well lol, they have enough Parallels and complementary Similarities and Contrasts and also just like, a normal nice person is a rarity on this show, so ben does Not have a world of competition in our [list of people who’d be Okay to kiss winston, b/c someone should, b/c he deserves that cuz we love him]

yeah that’s my Quick Basic Context summary lmao we hate it here but also we have fun, and really at any time (extending this to anyone lol) feel free to Send An Ask about anything at all b/c i am Not annoyed by random / unprompted asks from anybody, i love interaction! who knows if i’ll answer promptly (for example: sorry @ the person who’s asked for deh/bmc hcs who i havent answered yet lol) but yeah. it’s totally nice that you were already interested even without any Context lmao like. i mean yeah basically the joke still stands that the only context u truly need is that one scene from Kompenso but. yeah #Stonks

[nothingunrealistic]

👀 okay I'm starting to get into billions (bc of will). Can you recommend some essential episodes or something to get an understanding for what's happening? (And also I really like Asia Kate Dillon so like important episodes with them too)

the tricky thing about billions is that those of us who are into it aren’t, for the most part, actually watching the episodes in full or trying to understand all the plotlines. so if you want to know what’s happening with Everyone on the show (which is a dizzying number of characters), i can’t really pare it down to what’s important because i refuse to care about like half of them. but if, as it seems, you’re primarily here for winston and taylor (will’s and asia’s characters respectively), then good news - that’s almost all we care about too

the essential episodes for understanding winston are easy enough because he’s only shown up in five so far (3x03, 3x09, 3x11, 4x03, 4x08, and 4x11) for a couple minutes each, and all footage of him has been lovingly collated and posted on here. his first several appearances, and the context for them, are collected here; his moments from the most recent episode, which we were yelling about all day on sunday, are here. (he’ll be in this coming sunday’s episode too, which is also the season finale, so expect even more yelling about that.)

narrowing down the Essential Taylor is a little trickier because they’ve been in nearly every episode of seasons 2 3 and 4, of which i have watched exactly one episode. if billions had a decent fan wiki or anything similar, i would direct you to that, but they don’t, because they suck. the main way i keep up with the episodes/figure out what happened in previous seasons is via fan-run sites (which are superior to the recaps on Professional Media Websites usually), as follows:

fanfunwithdamianlewis has multiple recaps of every episode (including some from people who actually understand and can explain the financial stuff going on), as well as lists of all the locations shown, transcripts of cast interviews, and other fun stuff, all thoroughly tagged with actor and character names

gingesbecray has a recap of every episode as well (including gifs), always very detailed and entertainingly opinionated in ways we generally agree with

the billions companion collects and explains all the references that characters make (which is half the dialogue), sorted by episode, character, and keyword, as well as listing a wide array of other helpful sites

from these sites, the decent number of clips floating around youtube, and a collection of all taylor’s dialogue in seasons 2 & 3, we’ve pieced together the basic arc taylor’s had in the show so far. here’s my best approach at a season-by-season highlights reel (with links to relevant clips in bold) under the cut  because it’s ridiculously long

season 2: taylor arrives at axe capital as an intern. axe recognizes their talent and convinces them to stay, and they gain experience, status, and respect at axe cap over the course of the season, becoming the chief investment officer by season’s end.

2x01: taylor is an intern working for mafee (an executing trader at axe cap), and mafee wants them to stay once their internship is over.

2x02: taylor meets axe and impresses him with their insight. though taylor knows they don’t fit in at axe cap and plans to leave for grad school, axe later convinces them to stay, with a salary of a million dollars for a year.

2x03: taylor gets invited to play at a charity poker tournament (a real thing!), to the chagrin of others at axe cap. taylor has reservations but ultimately agrees to play; they win the tournament by outthinking their opponent, but are reminded of how out of place they are in hedge fund culture.

2x07: taylor is involved in figuring out what to do about a struggling small town that axe cap is heavily invested in.

2x08: taylor notices that mafee has been struggling at his job ever since he introduced them to axe, and asks wendy (who’s married to chuck [one of the main Legal Side characters], the performance coach at axe cap, and one of axe’s closest friends) if they should do anything about it. (ultimately taylor decides to assuage the guilt by giving mafee a signed wrestling poster. that’s the world of finance for you!)

2x09: axe’s birthday party, which everyone is expected to attend, is in conflict with taylor’s personal life, so they talk to him about what they should do and why they’re conflicted.

2x10: taylor is questioned by connerty (another of the characters on the legal side of things, who we don’t care about otherwise) about what happens at axe cap.

2x11: taylor is warned by connerty that this line of work might endanger their soul. they’re also given the responsibility of assessing all the analysts at axe cap and firing one - and told that it can’t be based solely on the numbers - and decide not to fire rudy, who is the worst performing analyst but is dedicated to succeeding.

2x12: axe is arrested/indicted/somehow penalized for insider trading and other hedge fund shenanigans, and he puts taylor in charge of axe cap’s investments.

season 3: taylor keeps axe capital running and thriving in axe’s absence, but once he returns, he overrules their decisions and undercuts their trust, leading them to start their own hedge fund (taylor mason capital, or tmc) by season’s end.

3x01: taylor calls a meeting at axe cap and tasks everyone with preparing for an Idea Dinner where they’ll impress other hedge funds with a new and exciting plan for making money. ultimately taylor comes up with a plan that involves reverse engineering microchips, and it goes over well.

3x02: taylor struggles with making the right choices of investments after a tsunami hits brazil, confronts axe when he shows up at the office despite being banned from trading, and talks with him later about how the day has gone and how to move forward.

3x03: taylor interviews quantitative analysts (”quants”) for axe cap, much to the chagrin of analysts who are worried about losing their jobs and traders who don’t trust computers. ultimately none are hired because wags (the COO of axe cap and the epitome of everything absolutely wild about billions), who conducted the interview with taylor, doesn’t trust quants either and sabotaged the process. (this is also where winston first appears! hi winston!)

3x04: taylor expects a space mission led by weird off brand elon musk to fail and invests accordingly. they’re rooting for him anyway and are horrified when he dies in an explosion after launch. they also deal with attempts to get them to invest in a charitable organization brought to axe’s attention by oscar langstraat, a venture philanthropist, and wind up with significant distaste for oscar.

3x05: taylor encounters oscar again in silicon valley where they’re hearing pitches, and though they’re hostile to him at first, a conversation about star wars makes taylor regret that they made other plans for dinner, and playing an obscure board game is enough for them to sleep with him. (like i said: enemies to lovers speedrun!)

3x06: taylor is “rattled” (their word) by something related to axe’s legal troubles in this episode. oscar flies in from silicon valley unannounced to keep taylor company while they’re working on their quant project because he’s That invested. no clips of any of this online though

3x07: axe and wendy are planning to convince mafee to take the blame for some shady investing they did at the end of last season, and taylor inadvertently enables them to do it by giving them information about how mafee thinks and what he believes in.

3x08: axe returns to axe cap free to trade again, and immediately undoes all of taylor’s work (including the quant project), though he also invites them to join the team that will raise money for axe cap. taylor wants a fund of their own to manage (still affiliated with axe cap but separate), but axe won’t give them as much money for it as he’s promising.

3x09: axe needs money and tries to take some from grigor andolov, a russian oil oligarch, which taylor thinks is a terrible idea. they also restart the quant project again, in secret, which means winston’s back! winston & taylor’s meeting in a room with a chalkboard and taylor’s introduction of the quants to the quant headquarters are both from this episode.

3x10: taylor and oscar are celebrating a deal that oscar’s about to make, but when taylor mentions it to axe in asking for his help with getting a dinner reservation, axe, who’s searching for more sources of money, makes the deal before oscar can, which crushes taylor and ends their relationship. 

3x11: taylor discovers that winston has driven off the other quants, but asks him to work on The Algorithm instead of firing him. it’s also comp time - axe won’t give taylor as much of a bonus as they want and also removes them from the capital raise team; this decision is later reversed when taylor talks to wendy and wendy talks to axe. winston completes The Algorithm, and taylor emerges from the quant basement into the offices of taylor mason capital to talk to grigor.

3x12: taylor meets with grigor and convinces him to invest in tmc, arrives (late) to the capital raise event and impresses the investors there, swipes a good portion of that capital for tmc, and leaves axe cap for good, having successfully convinced mafee (and failing to convince ben kim) to join them. axe and taylor argue about taylor’s betrayal and what comes next. taylor also tries and fails to bring wendy to tmc.

season 4: taylor strives to keep tmc successful while fending off axe’s repeated attacks and dealing with their own interpersonal relationships interfering with business. how will it end? we don’t yet know [UPDATE: it ends with taylor making deals with both axe and chuck, but truly being on no one’s side except their own.]

4x01: taylor, mafee, and sara (taylor’s COO) struggle to hire employees due to axe paying off tmc’s headhunter (though they don’t initially know that’s the case). taylor disguises themself as a cis woman to get money from a sovereign wealth fund that axe cap is also seeking money from. (the full episode is available on youtube.)

4x02: taylor can’t get funding because axe has persuaded all the banks to cut them off. grigor brings in a pair of shady brothers to invest in tmc; taylor would really rather not depend on the brothers’ money, so they trick the banker the brothers are using into cutting off their credit lines and ask grigor to use his influence to get independent funding for tmc.

4x03: axe cap has managed to get a hold of tmc’s trading patterns, and they start front running tmc (making trades based on what they expect tmc to do) to throw taylor off. (this is where winston comes in again! and declares himself cassandra!) taylor’s dad, douglas, shows up and spends nearly all of his screentime either persistently misgendering taylor or helping them create a mathematical equation, which includes a mistake added by taylor as a message to axe (who of course is watching) for a meeting. when they meet, taylor asks axe for a truce, and he declines.

4x04: grigor brings down axe cap’s whole computer system, allowing tmc to profit off a natural gas crisis that axe cap was hoping to benefit from. taylor also agrees to support douglas’s aerospace project, a “lattice grid fin,” now that he’s actually respecting them as a person. but the climax of this episode is chuck talking about his and wendy’s sex life in front of the press, and taylor calls wendy afterward to offer sympathy. (and chuck, who subsequently wins his election, gets grigor deported and his money frozen.)

4x05: taylor is #Stressed about the loss of grigor’s money, which endangers tmc overall and douglas’s project especially. sara brings in lauren, an investor relations expert, to help out; lauren gets taylor a meeting with the new york firefighters’ fund, who used to invest only with axe but are looking elsewhere, and taylor gains their support.

4x06: taylor is working with douglas and a couple other companies on getting his lattice fin project off the ground, while trying to avoid axe cap’s spying (not that successfully), and douglas is mad that he isn’t being treated like the smartest person in the room. taylor and wendy also meet up repeatedly, in a seemingly friendly way, but wendy mines their conversations and her patient files on taylor to figure out how to force taylor to destroy douglas’s project. 

4x07: rebecca, axe’s girlfriend (though tmc doesn’t know that) and a business mogul herself, offers to buy douglas’s project (as a way for axe to access and destroy it), which taylor turns down. taylor has also enlisted wendy’s help to furnish a new apartment for their parents. then taylor gets the news that douglas’s project has been found to be a threat to national security (thanks to axe) - and though they initially choose to hold onto his project despite the ensuing loss of funds, wendy comes over to commiserate and inadvertently gives away that she’s been playing taylor this whole time. taylor sells the project to the government to save tmc, at the cost of their relationship with douglas.

4x08: taylor wants financial revenge for being manipulated, and first taunts, then argues with axe on live television. at mafee and dollar bill’s charity boxing match, taylor first is confronted by wendy about reporting her for malpractice (which sara did without taylor’s knowledge), then reveals that they tricked axe into getting fracking legalized so they could profit from buying water rights where fracking happens.

4x09: taylor is going to great lengths to destroy rebecca’s new position as ceo of a department store (saler’s), including buying out three of the largest shareholders and planning to meet up with a fourth who already hates axe. the plan doesn’t work in the end, but taylor finds out that axe will make huge sacrifices for rebecca - and starts a relationship with lauren, who helped them get a meeting with the fourth shareholder’s son.

4x10: taylor is preparing for wendy’s malpractice hearing, buying an appliance manufacturer closely tied to saler’s in order to have power over rebecca, and doing a terrible job of hiding their relationship with lauren. wendy comes to see them at tmc, and taylor claims they won’t go to the hearing, for wendy’s benefit.

4x11: taylor indeed doesn’t go to the hearing, and wendy fesses up to her wrongdoing. it’s comp time at tmc (winston’s most recent appearance! we’ve only just recently stopped shouting about it!), and everyone defers their bonus except lauren, who says she’d be too heartbroken to stick around if she and taylor broke up. rebecca, who’s tired of taylor making her life difficult, offers taylor a business deal related to saler’s, and taylor, who’s tired of being at war, accepts.

4x12: here is imdb’s summary of this episode: “Axe makes a big decision. Connerty gets closer to the truth. Tensions rise, and dynamics shift.” real specific. [UPDATE: taylor apologizes to their employees and promises to focus on running tmc The Right Way. and then axe sinks tmc by effectively killing saler’s, and sends a former axe cap employee who tried to get a job at tmc to try and bait taylor into engaging in insider trading; he hopes that chuck will then arrest them and blackmail them to work for axe again. taylor doesn’t take the bait, but chuck arrests them anyway, and makes a deal with them to work together to take axe down. secretly taylor plans to set up chuck and axe to destroy each other, and then get out of the way. the episode ends with taylor and their tmc team walking into axe cap and being “welcomed home.”]

[murdocsmacattack]

the reason im not afraid of 3x10/3x11 and the reason 3x10/3x11 needs to happen

so ,the name at the very least ,for what will ether be ep 310 or 311 has been revealed "mac+fallout+jack" and for pretty understandable and obvious reasons its left 99.9% of the fandom with a seance of foreboding especially given mac and jacks interactions resent episodes ,

however im not afraid , and, i may be giving the writers to much credit with what we've been getting and all, but last time in season 2 when i gave the writers some credit , we actually  came pretty cloes to what i was thinking , so im going out on this limb again , and i hope you'll hear me out , because were dealing with the bromance slash surrogate father relationship of jack and mac , and this area at least the writers have always gotten 99.9% right ..with ..a few hiccups here and there but you get what i mean , so what am i getting at?    

the offness were apparently ALL picking up when it comes to mac and jack..is being done on purpose.

why do i think this ? well its a bit long and briefly personal , but art imitates life and there is a point so i hope you bear with me,a little while back around 302 i did a post about the reaction of the fandome to mac leaving, coming back , and still wanting to leave again , where i basically stated the former

"i think the problem is a lot of people are looking at the situation through “mac” colored glasses so to speak like “oh macs so sweet and so strong , so clearly this isn’t him , this is childish ,his friends are going to easy on him , hes a compartmentalize mac would never do this , hes not allowed to act like this!”"

and im not saying everyone whose coming to the “macs being a dick ” conclusion is completely wrong , but i truly still stand by the believe that his actions are more of a gray area then were giving it credit for , and ill get into that and why its important in a sec but first , lets look at jack  

the thing is , after reading a lot of my fellow fans feelings and reactions and mulling over my own thoughts , i think people are seeing jack through jack colored glasses as well, see jack discovered something about himself in 301  when it comes to mac , something i just assumed everyone else saw even tho it was subtle, and its something about himself that knowing jacks character he doesn’t much care for      

in 301 it was ether riley or bozer who stated "jack didnt care where you were , as long as he knew you were happy " witch as far as there relationship has gone thus far , has been the assumed status quo between them and towards each other, but then we see jacks actions, and hear his own words when he finally comes face to face with mac after there months apart

"I was gonna hunt down and capture Walsh.Yeah, I kind of figured if I collared your old man's ex-partner, I don't know, he'd just retire.And-and then you could return to the Phoenix."

"You know, you did save my life, pal, but I could argue that I'm saving yours as well.Rescued you from a life of misery, - wasting your talents. '

" the world needs you, Mac.And you owe it to the world to work for the Phoenix."

jack goes on to tell mac his main reason along with the ones stated above was jack was doing what he always does , protecting him , but having had this short conversation and hearing his thoughts out loud AND judging from jakcs reaction to mac coming to find him at the airstrip in the next episode , jack realized somethings after having time to mull over his own words

1 that mac being happy , alone, isn't enough

like riley said ,jack knew mac was relatively happy, he had his first steady girlfriend that hasn't tried to kill him , and tho not in any war zones , was still using his gifts to help people , he was healing and happy to the point he was considering not coming back , and i honesty don't believe this was an easy choice or taken lightly on macs part, whose the type of person who wont leave a house he loves despite the fact its literally unsafe, mac had to be happy in a real kinda way to come to this decision , and jack must have known that

but jack still cant fully accept that , hed rather have mac happy AND be with him , then only the former , jack assumes mac is "living a life of misery " because jack is miserable without him , and in that dialog jack admits this to mac and himself out loud for what is probably the first time  

this revelation is so hard on jack , because knowing jack he no doubt thinks this is very wrong of him to feel , jack views riles and mac as his children , but because he hasn't had biological kids of his own for a long and continues amount of time , jack doesn’t understand that theses feeling of a parent in relation to there child are completely normal ,every parent struggles with the balancing act of wanting there child to be happy , and also wanting the child they've raised to be near them

in jakcs mind hes come to the unwanted conclusion that when it comes to mac , he can be greedy and even a little selfish , even if that isn't entirely true and even if mac himslef may not actually feel that way , its how jack is seeing himself now and its put him on edge in concerns to mac

2 jack thinks macs dads physical presence is the only problem

jack and his own father had a completely different relationship in comparison to mac and his dad , but its influencing a lot of jakcs actions , jakcs convinced if big mac is out the building mac will have no problem walking back in , but that's not the real issue ,witch brings us to mac himself and the main problem when it comes to him and his relation to the people around him ,witch is ?

mac is emotionally distancing himself..because his emotions are being disregarded .

macs life was truly torn apart last season after what his father did, hes left  feeling the crushing weight of looking at any and i mean any aspect of his life , and feeling like it doesn’t belong to him ,most likely to the point were doing anything that reminds him of those feelings may even be physically painful , no really , i want you all to imagine building something real that you thought was amazing for years and then having someone tell you “no you didnt do any of that , none of that’s real , you’d have nothing without me ”

god guys its..skin crawling ,and mac was crawling in his own to the point he felt he had to leave the continent to get away from it,of cores macs not acting like who he is , he suddenly has to question every aspect of what that is, mac was faced with a real identity crisis ,and i know for people who haven’t run this kinda race that’s a hard thing to understand , to understand having such a great support system to fall back on ,and not being able to reach out to it , but its a real thing ,and its actually a pretty accurate picture of someone not being able to see past it when there in that much pain , because that’s what this is its pain ,and quite frankly macs handling it better then i did      

i did what mac did to the people around me ,only i didnt have to leave my room to do it, but i was given that space and all the time i needed  to mentally and emotionally heal, the problem is, mac wasn't, not really , mac thought hed found a woman and a purpose, and that was it, hes good , but that's not who mental health works , and it really doesn’t help , that macs kind of the martyr of the group , thanks to his dad mac was pretty much a parentified child from the time he was 10 hes been putting everyone else’s feelings and well-being before himslef for a looong time

and because that was his default setting within the group , it became a shock when mac did something drastic for his own good that put himself first , and weather we or the characters like it or not , that distance was needed, and the slow healing that was happening was cut short, and then he comes back and jack tells him in his own words that he wants him with him to the point of putting him self in harms way , because he knows mac will turn around and put himslef last to save him ,and mac doesn't know what emotionally to do with this , because macs not used to being so wanted , but hes still not healed and being around his father is still hard so he goes to leave again , but then murdoc happens  and mac puts himslef to the back again because someone died , witch brings us to the big point of why "mac+fallout+jack" needs to happen

mac and jack still arn’t right with themselves..and there not talking about it 

mac tries , weakly , at the end of 302 , but jack cuts it down and says there fine , and mac in turn says the same , becaues both of them don't want to acknowledge that something no matter how tiny between them has fractured , but this moment where they both chose not to talk is what sets the tone going forward , jack doesn't let himslef be as close to or open with mac as he was before , and macs feelings, especially when it comes to his father , continue to be pushed aside or misinterpreted ,so mac emotionally distances himslef from everyone and everything and says nothing ,and why would he , mac put his own feeling first , for the first time ..and it was met with a very negative reaction

but they need to have this conversation , and the only thing that may very well bring that about at this point with them playing pretend ,is that mac needs to have an emotional blow up ,hes been pushing all this shit down from all sides and its really been fucking with him , its been a long time coming and there needs to be screaming and crying and yelling , and it may be painful to watch and painful to hear , they may not talk for a day or 2 , but this needs to happen , they need to lay it all out and get themselves right so they can be right together  

mac and jack have both been disillusioned with there seance of self , even if the things they now believe about themselves arnt exactly true , its made them loose the equilibrium within there relationship that has been there constant , their off ,and they need to find each other again.

[thelallybrochlibrary]

Claim a prompt via The Lallybroch Library’s Ask Box: From now until April 30, anyone and everyone is invited to claim a prompt. Each prompt on this list can only be claimed once (either by sending us a message via the Library’s Ask Box or commenting below). We will be confirming claims on a ‘first in first served’ basis and any and all prompts that have been claimed will be crossed out. For more detailed information on the Outlander Fan Fiction Prompt Exchange please visit [THIS POST].

PROMPT #1:  “You’re tearing my guts out, Claire.” Modern Day AU (submitted by @scotsmanandsassenach). [claimed by @smoakingwaffles]

PROMPT #2:  It might be fun to have Claire run a small struggling horse/animal farm and Jaime is the veterinarian subbing for the usual vet. He is engaged to ? and etc. Also I would really like either Jamie or Ian to really let Jenny have it when she’s nasty and interferes/causes trouble. She drives me up the wall! (submitted by @annagoober) [claimed by @thebrochtuarachs]

PROMPT #3: "I don’t remember…. I don’t remember anything.“ (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @whiskynottea]

PROMPT #4: Jamie meets Claire in a New York City night club in the 1920s. Both have started getting tired of the superficial world they live in, until they meet each other! (submitted by @whiskynottea) [claimed by @owlish-peacock36]

PROMPT #5:  ... A story where Jamie finds himself able to travel through the stones to another time and finds Claire. (submitted by @anne-hedonia) [claimed by @seablue4u]

PROMPT #6:  TV canon divergence: what if Claire hadn't managed to attract Jamie's attention from the shore in 3x11? (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #7:  Claire opens her suitcase to discover it's not hers at all. In fact, according to the tag, it belongs to someone by the name of James Fraser. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @mo-nighean-rouge]

PROMPT #8:  'What's a lass like you doing out here on a night like this?' (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @kkruml]

PROMPT #9:  Jamie and Claire find themselves all alone on Fraser's Ridge. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @jules-fraser]

PROMPT #10: A fic of Jamie coming through the stones with Claire after season three (assuming the ship reck didn’t happen) and Claire, Bri and Bri’s bf (the reverends son ) that reunion and introduction, have to teach Jamie the ways of modern life. From how to use the bathroom to the idea of getting your own meals there being no kitchen maid. Learning to ride a bike, how to make a bed and trying to find a job in 20th century. Maybe they even fly back to Boston all four of them. (This may have already been done idk, I’m very new to this fandom). (submitted by @cookingwithcharlotte)

PROMPT #11: Jamie marvels about how for someone who didn't raise any children of his own he sure has a lot of children living here with him on Fraser's Ridge. (submitted by @annalisedemoodboards) [claimed by @katnoenau]

PROMPT #12: Frank Randall and Jamie Fraser discover a way to communicate by military correspondence. They can discuss what Frank found that has him worried about Brianna and the family he'll never see. But through documents knows about. (submitted by @docsama) [claimed by @muykonos]

PROMPT #13:  "You're really not as good at this as you think." (submitted by @cagedbirdsong) [claimed by @romancoin]

PROMPT #14: Modern day Fraser’s Ridge. What would life be like up in the mountains with the conveniences of 2018? (submitted by @katnoenau) [claimed by @the-fear-you-wont-fall]

PROMPT #15: “Your feet will bring you where your heart is.” Irish Proverb (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @seablue4u]

PROMPT #16: “Good morning. I see the assassins have failed.” (submitted by @the-fear-you-wont-fall) [claimed by @underthewingsofthblackeagle]

PROMPT #17: Claire and Jamie meet on an elevator that breaks down. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @yanceyrenee]

PROMPT #18: “You’re one insult away from starting a war.” (submitted by anonymous)[claimed by @underthewingsofthblackeagle]

PROMPT #19: Good Will Hunting meets Outlander.  James Fraser is a troubled janitor at the local university who secretly solves complex math problems at night.  Claire Beauchamp is a medical student at the same university.  How does their story unfold? (submitted by @the-fear-you-wont-fall)

PROMPT #20: “The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be loved.” ― Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible (submitted by anonymous)   [ claimed by @cagedbirdsong]

PROMPT #21:  Canon compliant: Instead of Dougal choosing Jamie to marry Claire, he chooses Murtagh. How this marriage of convenience pans out to Claire and Murtagh, and the complicated and conflicted feelings of kinship, loyalty, respect, growing friendship, love and passion brewing between the three of them, and how Jamie and Claire's undeniable bond and attraction will impact on things. (submitted by @ladytp) [claimed by @anoutlandishfanfic]

PROMPT #22: A modern AU of Claire and Jamie celebrating their 20th anniversary by renewing their vows at Lallybroch. (submitted by @lindseyylu17) [claimed by @theliteralheart]

PROMPT #23: When Harry Met Sally but with Jamie and Claire. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #24: What if Jamie is actually transported to the colonies (and he survives the journey, and Bree and Clair accidentally stumble upon the stones in America, on like a field trip or something. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @jesushrooseveltchristsuperstar]

PROMPT #25: What if instead of the ill wish being meant for Claire, it was meant for Jamie, because Claire has an admirer at the castle who is not pleased that Claire has come back married to Jamie. (submitted by @just-a-kid-at-heart)

PROMPT #26: Jamie and Claire sexy time: Claire making an excuse to pull Jamie aside for a quickie before he leaves on an Indian Agent journey. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #27: Jamie and Claire sexy time: Jamie and Claire christening Claire’s new garden near the new house. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by ourkissgoodbye]

PROMPT #28: Jamie and Claire sexy time: Jamie and Claire are stuck at a Mohawk village due to a freak fall snowstorm and the Chief offers them a cozy teepee to stay in until the storm passes. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #29: Jamie and Claire sexy time: In Charlotte Jamie surprises Claire for her birthday a new gown, dinner, a nice hotel. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #30: Jamie arrives in Edinburgh after years away to see that his wife is gone and his daughter is being raised by his nemesis, so he opens a barber shop under a pseudonym-Sweeney Todd (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #31:  Teaching archaeology at a major University, Claire enjoys collecting antiques as a hobby. One day, during her summer break, she happens to find a old book of Scottish love poems in an antique store. As she opens the book a slip of paper falls out with the most beautiful love letter from Brian Fraser to Ellen. Touched, she is determined to find out about the two lovers no matter where it takes her. (submitted by @pattmich) [claimed by @diversemediums]

PROMPT #32: Enchanted AU where Jamie falls out of a fairy tale storybook and right into modern-day Claire's life (submitted by @written-rebellion) [claimed by @awesomeeyeroll ]

PROMPT #33: Modern AU: “Chemistry Test.” Claire auditions for a role opposite Jamie, who has been cast as the male lead in a TV drama. (submitted by shadylainey) [claimed by @betweensceneswriter]

PROMPT #34: How about Brianna around the age of thirteen knew somehow that Frank wasn't her biological dad and went to go find out who he (Jamie) was and then travel to go find him?  How would Jamie react? (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @annalisedemoodboards]

PROMPT #35: Harry Potter AU: Jamie and Claire as students in Hogwarts. Jamie in Gryffindor, Claire in Ravenclaw? Or both in Gryffindor. Maybe post canon?  (submitted by @thistlekat777) [claimed by @written-rebellion]

PROMPT #36: A piece further teasing out of Jamie and Claire’s growing attraction and deepening relationship during the weeks they were with the group collecting the MacKenzie rent with a canon divergence where Claire is not captured and they have more time on the road together. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @lawofavgs]

PROMPT #37: Jamie is a selfish man who knows that he is handsome and that all girls want him when he meets Claire and becomes completely in love, so he is surprised that she is not interested in him and that his charm does not work on her. (submitted by anonymous)  [claimed by @jules-fraser]

PROMPT #38: Modern AU where Claire has a kid(s) before meeting Jamie.(submitted by anonymous) [claimed by quietcatastrophe]

PROMPT #39: What if Claire went back earlier/was there when Black Jack visited Lallybroch the first time. (submitted by anonymous) [claimed by @notyobeerwench]

PROMPT #40: Imagine that when Brianna and Jem meet Brian, they tell him who they really are. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #41: Lord John Grey arrives at Helwater for Geneva's wedding. Jamie confides in John, telling him of Geneva's blackmail and what he is expected to do tonight!  How will Lord John help his friend? (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #42: Before Colum dies he makes Jamie vow to lead the McKenzie Fighting Men home and become the Laird of Leoch until Hamish is old enough.  Jamie and Claire are able to work against Charles Stuart from within the clans. (submitted by anonymous)

PROMPT #43: Bree loved bunnies since she was a baby. What if bunnies in Jamie's life, represents Bree. Waking up on the Battlefield, raising a baby Bunny in Dunbonnet's cave, and so on. (submitted by @docsama) [claimed by @camilladiconza]

PROMPT #44: The ability to travel through time seems to run in the family. What was Uncle Lamb’s life like before he took on the role of raising Claire? (submitted by anonymous)

[ecampbellsoup]

3x11 UNCHARTED REVIEW

So I am new to Outlander, but I am ardently in love with it.

I discovered this phenomenal show about 2 months ago and have already watched seasons 1-3 three times through. It has utterly captivated me. I haven’t posted any reviews up until this point but after this show, I felt the need to. I am pretty verbose but I think my thoughts are worth expressing (as everyone’s are!). So here we go!

Ep 3x11: Uncharted

Overarching thoughts:

* Sam Heughan is simply perfect. And I’m not just saying that because he’s beautiful. Anyone who truly understands what honest and genuine acting is cannot deny that he is TALENTED and does miraculous things with the material he is given. SAM. HEUGHAN. ALL. THE. WAY. One of the brilliant things about Sam’s work is his subtlety. He doesn’t have to go “over the top” or be forceful to get the script and story line across. His work is in his eyes, body posture: all slight movements and you can even see him thinking like Jamie in the scenes. I know people have criticized him for his reaction to Bree’s photos and other scenes but, to me, he does an EXCELLENT of being honest in all his scenes; he is BELIEVABLE. Can’t say enough good about him. He is the tour de force of this show.

* Cait is really growing on me. Don’t get me wrong I’ve ALWAYS loved her as Claire and she does have some strong, powerful moments. But her acting in season 1 and 2 has many moments of insincerity and “over” acting. She just simply wasn’t organic in some scenes (the scene where she asks Jamie to wait one year to seek vengeance on Black Jack always comes to my mind first). However, she has blossomed this season and is coming into her own. I think this is a direct reflection of working with Mr. Heughan and growing as an actor.

OK ALL THAT TO SAY: I did thoroughly enjoy this episode. Let’s start with my constructive criticism and then PRAISE.

Constructive Criticism:

Ok so my biggest beef with season 3 is that the last few episodes have been ENTIRELY off on pacing and story line. The writers simply are choosing the wrong moments to highlight and stretch for too long. Don’t get me wrong: “Slow” doesn’t bother me. However, you have to choose the right plot points to develop slowly. And I think that Heaven and Earth is a prime example of this. They took an entire episode to show characterization that could’ve taken 25 minutes or less. Literally. How I personally would have shot Heaven and Earth is condensed what they had into 25-30 minutes and then shot Claire on the island and ended the episode with Claire standing on the beach waiting for Jamie. This makes more sense IMO. Then Uncharted could’ve been the wedding and turtle soup and more into Jamaica. With only 2 episodes left, I am nervous about what will be left out and rushed.

Some of the dialogue has come off or translated as insincere and awkward on screen. Truth be told, the show has done a brilliant job of picking some of Diana’s best dialogue to keep in and weeding out the more trite/silly exchanges. That’s not a diss on D cause I LOVE HER. But sometimes her dialogue is just too over the top and lacks depth or realism. However. This season: Sometimes the writers have missed the mark with the dialogue choices which make it harder for the actors to “sell” the story.

Ok so those are my two largest complaints with season 3. They are not blanket staments for every episode, but more so just observations I’ve made over the course of watching the season through 3 times. NOW FOR THE PRAISE!!!!!

Praise:

The reunion on the beach was truly LOVELY. It was passionate, sweet, reviving, and sincere. This little moment was one of my favorites. And the build up of tension before the embrace was perfection.

The wedding was absolutely precious. Full of humor, love and excitement (just like real weddings are). The moment that eclipsed it all was OBVIOUSLY when Jamie claimed Fraser over Fergus. I literally had tears down my cheeks. This moment has more implications and tenderness to it than I can tease out in this post BUT: the fact that Fergus is officially, after all this time, stamped with the Fraser name AND WITH JAMIE AND CLAIRE TOGETHER NO LESS TO WITNESS IT, is simply beautiful. It has immense meaning to both Fergus, who has loved Jamie and Claire SO well since the minute he came to them, and Jamie, who is finally able to recognize that he did raise a child and taught him how to be in the world.

The moment with Claire and Marsali was brilliantly done. Props to the writers and actors on this one. The nuance we see in Marsali here is striking. Because you can see that she really does like Claire but she doesn’t want to betray her mother. It also reveals that she admires Claire and Jamie’s relationship despite what has happened. Props all the props.

Wowzie. Turtle Soup was quite different from the book but I personally loved it. Cait was hysterical. I mean truly hilarious. Their chemistry was playful and sweet which is so refreshing since it has not been this way for a LONG time between them. I also love the moment where Jamie cannot stab Claire with the needle because he couldn’t bear the thought of hurting her. Again, Sams facial expressions are ON POINT ALWAYS. Could’ve had the scene run for 2 more minutes but overall YASSSSSS.

ALSO SHOUT OUT TO WILLOUGHBY WHO MAKES ALL MY DREAMS COME TRUE AND IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!!!!!! And Bear’s musical choices are ALWAYS incredible. This season particularly. The Willie theme and the music this episode stand out to me.

[elizabethrobertajones]

3x05 & 3x06 - Dean & Sam’s moons

I am assuming they're both on full moon a month a part as part of season 3's year-long schedule, although tbh it was probably an aesthetic choice and no one stopped to consider it. 3x05 is near Halloween, 3x06 must therefore be in November, and the Christmas episode is 3x08.

Anyway some musings on the moons because I love that they both have one with this same transition.

The one in 3x05 is placed directly over Dean's bed and the camera continues to pan down over him sleeping (which I didn't gif because it would have been huge and I made aesthetic choices >.>) which to me represents it as a thought bubble, almost, showing him dreaming. Dean's pastoral fairytale dream I am pretty sure is photoshopped because it reappears in 3x10, the dream episode, in Bobby's hotel room, sans moon but representing the same sort of thing since it was already here representing a dream:

http://www.homeofthenutty.com/supernatural/screencaps/displayimage.php?album=54&pid=12108#top_display_media

in that case I think it's pretty ironic that it's the sunny daytime version of the pastoral dream. Almost like the scene Sam steps into when he leaves the house, but of course it's so much worse inside, not like it seems on the surface.

Giving Dean this transition I think is exceptionally beautiful because it shows the prosaic normal of their motel-living lives as the sort of landscape they truly inhabit, and then transitioning to Dean's dream, the fairytales they metaphorically inhabit. I wrote this 2 years ago in my last rewatch because of this moment:

I have a lot of feelings about Supernatural as actual folklore, like, with the stories that are told, and how they’re told, and the main characters as folkloric heroes and blah blah, stuff I’d need to dust off some old books of mine to really talk about properly. :P Suffice to say, going from the hum drum exterior shot of the realities of life on the road to this mystical fairytale woodland with the puddle as a great lake and the dull motel as a mill, bigger hills, bigger trees, no sodium lights or bright vending machine… Sort of putting the magic into what they do and making the leap of imagination into the stories that happen around them.

There's something that really soothes me about this episode because of this shot. Dean's so prickly to fairytales and yes there's been meta written about his deflecting behind porn, his calling Sam gay for knowing the details, and his instinctive reaction that he's not gonna kiss the frog and how he still kinda thought it was going to be his role to be the "princess" there on first take. All been done before, but still. (I'm sure my 3x05 tag doesn't have a whole lot in it but I'm pretty sure I reblogged commentary about all of this in more detail one time or another)

Dean has defensive walls a mile high about liking this sort of stuff because it might make him seem weak, and there's a real thread through this season and season 4 about their strength, where Dean is stuck behind the facade but even before he goes to hell it's obvious he's putting a lot of it on in many moments. Sam becomes more and more manipulated by a lot of the baddies they pass that he has to be stronger than Dean, and by 3x09 Dean calls him out on it and Sam says he's trying to be more like Dean - that is, a harsher, more vicious hunter. In 3x11 mystery spot!Sam betrays that's more like John once he's gone all the way to the far end of that mindset, but anyway, Sam puts a name to it as trying to be more like Dean, and in season 4 he feels he's supassed Dean and become stronger than him through Ruby's manipulations, taking this to the logical end of their fight.

(As I was saying last night this season establishes Cain & Abel as the template early on in 3x04 and 3x06 - I watched the little behind the scenes bit about 3x06 on the DVD and it was the VFX guy congratulating themselves on a job well done, but he did agree that the ghosts taking each other out was where the show might go "this season" (oh season 3) so I'm feeling more certain than ever that the show decided this was the new template for the brothers all the way back here and started to apply it...)

Anyway. This episode, then, Dean gets to have the macho fight with the Big Bad Wolf (which he might think is silly but is a pretty brutal fight and he was this close to killing him before the doctor broke through to the little girl, so he at least physically defeated the Big Bad Wolf in a sort of metaphorical way) - I kind of feel like that moment might have set him more at ease, defeating a strong masculine element, as the Big Bad Wolf was the same guy in a couple of stories - the 3 Pigs as well as Little Red Riding Hood, which just goes to show the whole basic pool of characters being drawn from nature of fairy tales.

In some ways Dean is always trying to defeat the masculine elements that provide him the toughest opposition... Compare the Big Bad Wolf fight to (everyone rolls their eyes) 12x22 and the fight with Ketch - brutal, man-on-man, smashing up all the furniture and wrestling brute strength against each other. In season 3 the masculine influence on Dean is the ongoing ghost of John, who metaphorically got sucked up into Gordon, who Sam (the one who identified this idea out loud) defeats in 3x07 after he also goes fully monstrous as a result of his black and white view on monsters.

Dean defeats yet another metaphorical representation of this in the Big Bad Wolf and goes to bed to sleep, and we get this transition to what he dreams of - a peaceful, pastoral fairytale scene. No pretentions or anything, just a reconciliation. Dean can occupy the motels and gritty Americana as much as he likes, and still dream of fairytales if he damn well wants to, and there is a calm and innocence to his sleep in this scene, contrasted to Sam sneaking out to confront the crossroads demon.

In 3x06, Sam's moon, it's after he has the brilliant idea of how to defeat the ghost and save Bela from a seeming fatal, inescapable and twice self-inflicted curse. The ghost hunts those who killed their own family, and Bela's theivery has sold the one thing that she could have used to save herself simply.

Sam has the bright idea to take this all back to the start - the river ends at the source - and to use a spell to summon the original combatants of this ancient sibling rivalry to take each other off the board. We're shown the moon huge and ominous and clear, but as Sam does the incantation (hi Castiel) the clouds gather over it. Sam's moon is an omen, fading to him doing spellwork that involves blood (the clip again continues to pan downwards, this time showing Sam tipping a bottle of blood into the bowl), and the moon is a spell circle. One of invokation, rather than protection or warding, as we most often see in this show.

Of course it mirrors Chuck & Amara, Cain & Abel and in the words of the VFX dude, Sam & Dean. I don't know exactly what was going to happen in season 3, but the staging of one ghost lunging into the other and taking them both out also has echoes of Michael charging at Lucifer in 5x22 and both falling into the cage together, and of course their fight was another step in the siblings pitted against each other.

Also, of course, Sam using magic to achieve this, to me is a part of the old "season 10 is the new season 3" stuff... Mel sent me a bunch of stuff after I talked about this last night (and, sorry, I talked about this one last night so I have slightly less to say here :P) so I'll link that

https://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/post/114299870202/63-the-final-scene-of-the-episode-drives-the https://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/post/126306223069/season-10-is-the-new-season-3-some-parallels-from https://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/tagged/season-10-is-the-new-season-3

[twdmusicboxmystery]

2017 Re-Watch: 3b

Good morning and Happy Monday! Here are my observations for 3b (I made it through the hardest part of the re-watch. We’ll only be doing 3 episodes/week from now on.)

3x09 - 1) So this is the episode where Daryl leaves the prison with Merle (and the fandom sobbed for a week). The thing that really jumped out to me about this are Daryl’s words to Rick before and Merle take off.

We’ve been discussing this a lot in my FB group. I think we’ve all be a little surprised at what we’ve observed as we’ve re-watched: Beth, even in S3, is not considered a child. (And this isn’t specifically a TD thing so much as an argument against the lame age-gap argument the haters like to throw around.)

Remember how in my last post I mentioned @rednecksaints observation that Beth and Daryl often talk indirectly in group discussions and answer one another? Well, I realized in 3b that it’s not just Daryl. Both Rick and Glenn on various occasions also speak with her as though she’s one of the adults and answer her concerns just as they would Carol’s or Hershel’s. The interesting thing is that, in Georgia, you’re considered an adult at age 17, rather than 18. That’s specific to the state, but it’s interesting that they went out of their way to tell us she was 17 in s3.

@boltthrutheheart also observed that Beth is never lumped in with the “children.” We were talking about s5 at the time, which I’ll get to in a minute, but you see it here in 3x09 as well. And from Daryl, no less. Let me show you. So he’s getting ready to leave with Merle. He says this to Rick:

“Take care of yourself. Take care of Lil Ass-Kicker. And Carl. He’s one tough kid.” Before walking away from Glenn and Maggie, he specifically mentions Hershel. “Say bye to your pop for me.” Glenn had already asked what they should tell Carol. So he doesn’t mention Beth specifically (we wish, right?) but the point is that when he talks to Rick, he specifically mentions the children. Tells Rick to take care of them. And Beth is most definitely not lumped in with them. Even in S3, he didn’t see her as a child.

I’ll do a post about this later, but we see an echo of this in 5b when they reach Alexandria. While being interviewed by Deanna, Daryl specifically mentions that the “boy and the baby” deserve a roof.“ That doesn’t have much to do with this. The post I want to do is about Daryl and Beth being protectors of children. But the point is he thinks of Carl and Judith as kids. No one else. I do think it’s kind of interesting that he says this in S5 right after killing the possum. In fact, he brings the dead possum to the interview. He’s holding it. (Ew.) 

So if that was meant to be a parallel with this in S3, here he was leaving with Merle. The more I watched S3, the more parallels I saw between Beth and Merle.

2) Interesting line from Andrea at Woodbury: "We don’t even have funerals anymore because the death never stops.” Obviously the reference to funerals caught my attention. But it also occurred to me that in the show, TF and the “good” people always have funerals. “Bad” places–think Woodbury, Terminus, Grady–specifically don’t. This line was a foreshadow that Woodbury was a bad place. (By this part in the season we already know the Gov is twisted, so it’s not a big revelation, but it is a hint of what to look for.)

3) Beth and Carol talk about Daryl. I posted this edit last week bc I love this scene. 

Two things jumped out at me from the dialogue. Again, not so much TD-ish as just Bethyl-ish. But again, if she’s really not coming back, what a waste.

A) Carol says, “Men like Merle get into your head. Make you think you observe the abuse.” Beth asks, “Even for Daryl?” I think she was surprised, since she’d always seen Daryl as so strong (“We’re weak without him.”) that Merle had so much sway over him. She’s trying to figure him out here, with Carol’s help. This convo with Carol gave Beth a lot of insight into Daryl. It played into their relationship later. Because of this, Beth would have understood that Daryl was being masochistic after the fall of the prison. That he was punishing himself for something that wasn’t his fault. This sets an interesting groundwork.

B) Beth says, “She wouldn’t have made it Daryl hadn’t been here. He couldn’t stand to lose anyone else.” I’ve seriously heard that line/watched this scene like a hundred times, but I’ve never connected that line to 4x01. “Just tired of losing people. That’s all.” That line prompts Beth to hug him. It shows that she was paying attention back in S3. She remembered how hard he fought to keep Judith alive and when he was sad about losing people in 4x01, she understood probably better than anyone else at the prison specifically BECAUSE she remembered.

See what I mean? So much buildup here. No way Gimple is stupid enough to waste that.

3x10 - Home is my favorite episode of S3. We get some much backstory about Daryl and Merle. This is also where we see the scars on Daryl’s back for the first time. And at the end he shows up to kick butt and save the day. Not a mystery why it’s my fave, right? Such a great episode.

Also, this bridge scene with Daryl and Merle is interesting. 

I’ve never looked very closely at it before, but it contains a bridge, a red car, a crying baby, and a blond, female walker that’s shot in the head. Just saying. To be honest, I’m not sure about it because it doesn’t FEEL particularly symbolic, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been built on. If there is a connection, it probably has to do with Merle, and the fact that he was presumed dead and time-wise, this was not long after he and Daryl were reunited.

3x11 - So after Daryl and Merle return to the prison, the group is all standing around in the cell block, discussing what their next move should be concerning the governor. Only because I was paying attention to Beth and Daryl’s dialogue/interactions, something jumped out at me.

Merle makes everyone uncomfortable by telling them the Gov has the advantage in guns and numbers and that he could easily besiege them at the prison and starve them out. Maggie says they should put Merle in the other cell block. It’s obviously just because what he’s saying is frightening her. Daryl says, “No. He’s got a point." 

Maggie turns to Merle and starts yelling at him saying, "This is all you. You started this.” Then Beth chimes in saying, “What’s the difference whose fault it is? What do we do?”

It occurred to me that Beth kind of defended Merle, or at least kept the others from directed more negativity at him, right after Daryl did. And why would Beth defend Merle? In 3x09, talking to Carol, she said she thought he was a jerk. She has no reason to defend him now, especially against Maggie. Merle was the one that imprisoned Maggie and took her to the Gov. Beth really ought to hate him in the same way Glenn does. Beth only said something bc Daryl defended his brother against Maggie. Beth was taking his side. (All together now: Awwwwww.)

Beth sings the song, Hold On in this episode. I won’t say anything about it now. I’m gonna give it its own post.

3x12 - Clear has been discussed before as a major TD episode. (X, X, X) Check these three linked post for info about stuff on the walls. Couple of other things I noticed, though. At the beginning of this episode, we see a sign that Rick, Michonne and Carol drive by. It says, “Erin, we tried for Stone Mountain. –J" 

When they get stuck, a female walker with a bracelet that says Erin shows up. 

I’m not really sure what to make of that, and I’m not saying it’s a TD thing, but… It reminds me of 4x06/07 when the Governor is on the road and sees names and signs on the side of the barn. He then assumes one of the names when he meets Tara. I feel like there’s higher significance to this little detail than just the obvious tragedy. (And remember Gimple wrote this episode.) I can’t put my finger on what it is.

Btw, we also see train tracks in this episode. Very obviously. Just sayin’.

3x13 - In this episode, Maggie and Glenn make up and do the deed for the first time since before they were taken into Woodbury. I noticed that Maggie said, "I’m with you. I’m always with you.” That’s pretty much exactly what Michonne said to Rick in 5x16. “And if we don’t, I’m still with you.” Now, granted, Beth didn’t ever use this exact phrase (Shh. Don’t tell the haters.) But she did say, “I’m not gonna leave you,” which means the same thing with different words.

My point is that this is an exchange we’ve now seen twice with romantic couples. I bet we hear it at some point in the future with Bethyl. And Carnid.

Rick announces in this episode that they’re going to war against the Governor. And it’s a hella lot like Negan saying it in 7x16.

3x15 - This is where Merle kidnaps Michonne and takes her to the Governor. So we have Merle in a car a lot. (Can we appreciate this shot of Merle in the front of a blue car with a cross?)

This scene also had a lot to do with cars and killing walkers with wires, kinda like the wire trick on the highway in S7. Both also included Michonne (you go girl!).

In the car, there was some interesting dialogue. Michonne tells Merle that he can just change his mind and they can go back to the prison. Merle stops the car and says, “I can’t go back. Can’t you understand that?” It reminded me a lot of the S5 dialogue. “Can’t go back, Bob.” I don’t know how the two would be connected, but just wanted to point out the similarities.

And can we appreciate that there are only two people Daryl cried like this about: Merle and Beth. 

Not only does it show that they’re the two people he cared about most in the world, and lost, but the two of them have a surprising amount of parallels.

3x16 - Okay. There were lots I saw in the finale. And that’s not surprising given that Gimple was brought in to rewrite the final episode, especially as concerned Andrea’s death. There’s no way to know how much of the episode he rewrote. Did he just put in small things here and there, or did he completely overhaul the final episode? No idea. But there are definitely some things that show he was preparing for S4 and Beth’s arc with this episode. Read THIS POST for lots of details about the Beth stuff. I’m only going to mention it briefly here.

Let’s start with some foreshadows we can say for sure were fulfilled in S4. I point them out to show that most of this episode foreshadowed coming events:

1) Carl killing that Woodbury kid with the gun. This was a plot point we saw a lot in S4. Carl losing his humanity is what led to Rick stepping back from his leadership role at the prison. So this one event informed all of 4a. We didn’t see Carl’s anger until 3x16. It wasn’t something they were building to with all of 3b. I really think it’s something Gimple added in at the last minute. Him killing that kid was a sudden, somewhat random occurrence.

2) The Governor. He killed his own people and disappeared, which led to his arc and eventual demise in S4. I honestly think, if Gimple had been in charge for more of S3, they might have dispatched the Governor in S3. But no way they could have given him a decent sendoff in only one episode. So they left him as a loose end they could use to propel the story forward in S4.

3) Karen’s survival. It was kind of random that one member of the Gov’s people would just so happen to survive. But this served three different purposes: she was able to tell Rick and Daryl what had happened, she led them back to Woodbury so they could be with Andrea in her final moments, and Karen became a part of season 4 because of Tyreese, the virus, and Carol killing her. Yeah, that was the kickoff for Carol’s whole arc which is still going on in S7/S8. See what I mean? Lots of planning there.

Bonus: Um, can we also appreciate that Karen survived what would have been a gunshot to the end (though he didn’t actually end up shooting her) and when TF arrived on the scene, she was in the front seat of a green truck. Juuuust saying.

4) Another thing you could see as a foreshadow concerning Karen: when they get to Woodbury, Tyreese shows a lot of concern for her. Remember that he doesn’t trust Rick’s group because the last he saw of them, Rick had a meltdown and kicked him and Sasha out of the prison. He yells to Karen, “Are you all right? Why are you with them?” She tells him Rick saved her, etc. But you can kind of see how that convo could turn into romance. I think this foreshadowed Ty and Karen’s relationship in S4.

Okay, that enough proof that they used this episode to kick us into S4? Let’s look at few others that are important to TD:

1) In the cell, as they’re all getting ready to get into place for the Governor’s attack, I noticed that Carl was looking at the sheriff’s badge. It jumped out at me, but it had little to do with Beth, so I dismissed it. Then I noticed something else. Right after looking at it, he walks up to her and gives her some bags to put in the car. It’s a small interaction. Minute. But we had the sheriff’s badge, and then 5 seconds later, Beth.

But it gets more interesting. After telling Rick that he doesn’t feel bad for shooting the Woodbury, Carl drops the badge in the dirt, and Rick picks it up. 

They were already leading us into the “new sheriff in town” theme. By dropping the badge, Carl is relinquishing both his “good guy” status, which is why Rick also steps back, to save Carl’s humanity, and his “sheriff” status. The obvious thing is that Rick will simply carry the badge as a symbol of him still being the sheriff, but in 4x01, which is the VERY NEXT episode, he’s stepped down as leader. See what I mean? It’s very round-about, but there has to be a new sheriff in town. The only other one besides Rick and Carl in these two scenes, is Beth. Just saying.

2) Beth wearing ComicBook Andrea’s beanie is important. It shows that they were already planning to give her Andrea’s arcs, even in this season. (X)

3) The Governor reads a scripture about resurrection. Think about that, guys. RESURRECTION. The wicked vs. righteous reference I get, but there are about 2,000 scriptures they could have used to piss the Governor off, here. Nope. They went with one about resurrection. And the Governor, other than going missing and returning, never had any particular resurrection arc. Gimple was already planning for some sort of resurrection arc in this episode. This was his foreshadow of it.

4) I noticed some lighting parallels I hadn’t seen before. The Gov going into the prison vs. Ty’s hallucination in 5x09. 

Again, I’m not sure this was planned, but it could have been built on. If it WAS planned (again, big if) it becomes interesting because this lighting happened almost synonymously with the resurrection scripture, and of course 5x09 was all about Beth’s and Ty’s “deaths” being tangled up. Super interesting.

Two more things and I’ll be done. (Sorry this is so long.)

5) Andrea says, “No one can make it alone, now.” And Daryl answers, “Never could.” I’ve heard that line lots of times, but it jumped out at me as a possible foreshadow of Daryl’s arc, both because it’s Andrea (who’s shoes Beth steps into) and Daryl talking and because of, you know, 4x13 Alone.

6) Finally, two arcs end pretty well in this episode. With Andrea, though I know a lot of people hated her death, she says, “I know how the safety works,” which is a mirror of the very first major interaction she and Rick had. Gimple loves to close arcs this way. We’ve seen it time and again, most recently with Sasha when they recreated the sunrise/sunset scene from Them. 

The other one was that Rick stopped seeing Lori at the end. He’d seen her throughout all of 3b. Finally, at the end, she disappears, showing that his guilt was gone, he felt good about what he was doing, and it’s time to move on. I’m seeing Gimple’s hand in both those closings. This is how he finishes character arcs. And then there’s Beth….

Just saying. That’s all I’ve got. I’m really gonna shut up, now. ;D

[faithandfairies]

Okay, so, a couple of things.

I was looking at this picture the day before yesterday and the first thing I noticed was “Henry has the book.”

Now, doesn’t that seem weird to anyone? All I could think was, “Son, you’re at your mother’s wedding, why do you have the book? What is so important that you have to have the book right then, even if it is “THE book”.”

The other thing I noticed was the open seat next to Regina and Henry. One open seat. I’m assuming that there are at least two open seats, for Snow and Charming, but  the picture is taken in such a way that as Emma walks past you only see one. Which immediately makes me think that open seat is meant for Emma. Which makes no sense, but actually it couldn’t make more sense.

Here’s why. I was watching the season 3 2-episode finale yesterday and in that episode Emma is ready to take Henry and leave her family behind. She tells Hook that aside from being with Henry she doesn’t belong anywhere. To her the book is just stories and she wasn’t there for any of it.

Rewind a couple of scenes, Emma runs out of the diner. Everyone is ganging up on her because she wants to leave and you have Hook following behind her telling her family he’ll talk to her.

This is what Henry says:

“Wait, take this. It might help her remember where she belongs.” (He hands Hook the storybook. Hook exits the diner.)

Then later we have this:

Hook: “You're making a mistake.” 

Emma: “I don't want to talk to you about this.” 

Hook: “Don't listen to me, listen to your son”. (He takes the storybook from his satchel and hands it to Emma.) “He thought this might remind you of what you're leaving behind--your family.”

Emma: “Henry is my family and I am taking him where he is safe.”

In light of the Queen’s “Is your new father bothering you?” and Henry’s response of “He’s not my father!” after Hook throws Henry’s food that his mother probably bought for him in the trash, you have to wonder. Not to mention Henry’s face as Hook start to propose to Emma the second time around. The same face, coincidentally, that he pulls right before the Queen asks him about his “new father”.

Also, what is the book, really? If we’re right it’s Emma and Regina’s story, written by Henry.

I think it was @stregaomega who pointed out that “Storybrooke” without Emma and Regina’s first initials makes “Storybook”.

So does that mean that Henry having the book, not to mention that strategically taken picture showing exactly one empty chair next to Regina and Henry is another reminder of where Emma really belongs? The family she’s leaving behind? Which does not include Snow and Charming, since surprisingly they are both walking her down the aisle?

 It’s also interesting to note that Regina, Emma and Henry are all dressed in their Swan Mills Family colors. Red, white and black. Where black and white put together makes grey, the other color to the red in Henry’s scarf.

(x)

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You know something else I just thought of that doesn’t really have anything to do with this, but does? 

@anothershadeofgreen mentioned that Tiger Lily may be the true love Emma was actually taking the portal to. What I can say about that is that a lot of us have speculated that Lily Page is actually a younger version of Regina. On top of that a very important parallel to Regina is Jasmine, whose pet, Rajah, we haven’t seen on this show, but happens to be a tiger. Then we had Regina dressed in leopard print of all things and Shady pointing out Aesop’s Fable about a lion isolating a bull. It’s all just very “coincidental” on a show where nothing ever is.

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I also love how the floor in the picture reminds me of a chessboard. And I only thought of this because of Harry Potter. Ha!

There’s more.

After Emma is captured in 3x22 this exchange happens.

Snow tells David that she doesn’t have his ring and David doesn’t believe her. Hook says the following:

“You should. She’s telling the truth, mate.” (making a bow) “Prince Charles. Lovely ball the other night. The mutton was a tad overcooked, but that happens. Snow White doesn’t have your ring. But I can tell you who does. My princess. And I need your help to get her back.”

Prince Charming: “She has my ring? That’s two women who robbed me. Where is she?”

 Hook: “Well, that’s the problem. The Queen’s castle.”

The most interesting things about this moment to me are that Emma is at Regina’s “castle” and David mentions that that’s two women who robbed him. Which could be Snow, Charming’s and Hook’s opinion on Emma and Regina if Emma and Regina do get together romantically. Them being robbed of their idea of Emma’s and their happy ending. 

Not to mention the “keys to the kingdom” reference, Emma giving Regina the kings to her kingdom, in 6x10, was definitely a sexual reference.

Also, look at this picture again. Who looks happiest? I’d say it’s Snow. 

This also plays perfectly into the fact that the one threat the Evil Queen has made consistently to Snow was:

“I will destroy your happiness if it is the last thing I do.”

She says it in 1x01, Regina even says it in 6x10 and I think it’s the last thing the Evil Queen says in the past in 3x22.

She’s never said that to Emma. To Emma she’s said three things that stand out.

1. “I will destroy you.” 

2. “I can give you one” referring to Emma’s happy ending in 3x11

3. “ I want to hurt you. I want you to see how pointless you are.” (the Split Queen talking about Emma as the savior)  

(Emma: “I saved her once. I'll save her again.”

Evil Queen: “Oh, that's the tragic thing about being a savior. You have to keep saving people. But once you're off the chessboard... everything falls apart. All those happy endings turn to dust, and your entire life means... nothing. Let me show you what it feels like.”)

Now, if we put these 4 statements together and assume that they are not mutually exclusive then that tells me a couple of things. 

A. Regina wants to make Emma happy.

B. Emma and Snow’s expectations for Emma coming true are Snow’s happiness.

C. Regina making Emma happy would go against Snow’s expectations for Emma. Against what would make Snow happy. 

D. Regina wants the savior gone. As long as Emma is the savior she’ll try to make everyone else happy. And neglect her own happiness. She’ll have to do that all her life. That means she and Regina will never be together.

It’s also interesting that the Evil Queen spends all her time trying to kill Snow. Everyone is loyal to Snow while no one helps her. And then when Regina succeeds in killing Snow and Charming in the Wish Realm, it leads to the events that make Emma remember who she is. Fascinating, truly.

On top of this, 3x21/3x22 is the first time dark fairy dust makes an appearance. Snow tries to use it on Regina to turn her into a bug. Then uses it on herself to escape her own execution by Regina. Then Regina uses it on the trolls that fell for Snow’s ruse and let her go. 

Interesting, since this season we had a giant spider chasing the savior in order to kill her.

There’s also this as Emma is in the Queen’s dungeon with Marian in 3x22:

Woman: “What’s that?” 

Emma: “It’s my parents’. I guess you could call it their wedding ring.” 

(Woman: “And they entrusted you with it?” )

Emma: “Sort of.”

I was reading the transcript for 3x21/3x22 as I was writing this post because I couldn’t remember everything that had stood out to me while watching the episodes. And I accidentally read over the line I have between brackets.

And you know what this exchange makes me think of? When you do something for your parents, something that you know will make them happy even though you might not care about it either way and doing it wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) take much away from you. I’ve definitely been there. 

And what Emma says here? Superimposed on what’s happening now? Hook’s engagement ring to Emma could in her mind be seen as her parents’ ring. If we are right and she is doing this for her parents. Because she thinks that’s what will make them happy.

Then there is this. In 3x22 when Hook goes to save Emma. Well, Hook and Snow and Ruby, etc. but as always he’s taking ALL the credit. None left for anyone else. But anyway...

Hook: “What the hell are you doing? You’re depriving me of a dashing rescue.” 

Emma: “Sorry. The only one who saves me is me. Speaking of which” (slipping the ring off her finger) “I’m not gonna be around much longer unless we find where this belongs.”

(Emma was wearing her parents’ engagement/wedding ring)

This to me is fascinating. Because again, superimposing this on what is happening now it makes a lot of sense. You could see it as Emma changing ever since she’s been trying to fit society’s mold of acceptable/normal, trying to please her parents. And that with her marriage to Hook that process will be complete and whom she was before, who she really is, won’t be around anymore.

Or, using Shady’s view that the ring could symbolize Emma accepting herself fully , that would mean that once the marriage happens she’ll be fully accepting of who she is. Either way the ring symbolizes a change.

Another thing stands out to me. Marian.

This moment of Hook coming to save Emma is followed by Hook finding out that Emma saved Marian as well along with herself.

This exchange happens: Hook: (falling behind in order to speak with Emma) “Swan, you didn’t.” 

Emma: “She was to be executed in the morning. I couldn’t just leave her there to die.” 

Hook: “Actually, if she’s to die, she pretty much has to.” 

This is the first time, I believe that Emma chooses to hold on to something, or someone she wasn’t meant to. And given that Marian’s name isn’t mentioned at all during this exchange  even though they are talking about her and that Marian doesn’t even end up being Marian, I wonder if they aren’t actually talking about Emma holding on to her savior image/persona/self. A part of her that Regina doesn’t like and wants destroyed.

It also explains the the way Marian was used. How angry and hurt Regina was over Emma bringing Marian with her. How it caused a real rift between them. How Marian’s return caused so many problems in Regina’s love life.

Another thing that is interesting is that Marian returns after having been thought to be dead for 30 years. Something Robin blamed himself for. Emma came back to Storybrooke as the savior after 28 years. But it took her much longer to accept that title and the burden that came with it. 30 years perhaps?

Remember, about halfway through season 3 Emma actually says that she hates being the savior. I think she says that it means she can’t be happy. And then later, when the dust has settled near the end of season 3 she chooses to leave. I think because staying involves playing her part of savior, which she doesn’t want to do.

So is Marian’s return symbolic of Emma finally resigning to be the savior? The fact that Marian comes back to Robin and Roland and we see Roland interact with her as one of the first as Regina looks on completely hurt gets another meaning if you see Robin and Marian as two parts of the same person. Emma meeting her savior self, along with Henry. While Regina gets pushed to the side. Emma also later introduces Marian to Regina herself. And Marian’s reaction to Regina. Marian hated Regina. Regina wanted her dead and was a threat to her and everything she stood for, everything she had. We also see Marian call Regina monster in front of her own son.

It would also explain how Robin talks about Marian. As if her return is a burden he doesn’t want. 

It’s also interesting that Regina almost gets Robin anyway. But then Marian’s frozen status becomes an issue. It’s interesting that at the same time Emma is also having problems with ice/ freezing/magic.

And that when Marian leaves with Robin, Emma and Regina’s friendship flourishes. But then Marian/ Zelena and Robin return.

Zelena even goes so far as to try to wipe Regina of the earth entirely, trying to make it so Regina was never born. 

In 3x22 Robin also mentions to Regina that he would have gone to hell if it meant he could see his Marian again. 

It could have been foreshadowing of his death, or disintegration. Marian herself was turned to dust.

But it could also be foreshadowing of what Emma would be willing to do and has in order to hold on to her savior status. Going to hell to get Hook back. No matter the cost.

In season 3 people bringing back people they shouldn’t or killing people they shouldn’t is a theme that repeats itself. That just ends up having a ripple effect. Neal bringing Rumple back. Rumple killing Zelena. Emma bringing Marian back. Especially Neal and Rumple’s situation was interesting. Two people in the same body, where there is only room for one. One having to die so the other can live. Kind of also makes me think about the split queen arc. 

It’s also interesting that Emma is the one who ends up separating Neal and Rumple, using her magic. After Neal insists that is what will save the town and Emma herself, and Henry.

On top of all of this there’s another thing.

This.

(x)

In season 1 Emma always wears two necklaces. You see, when she was with Neal he once stole a swan keychain for her and she split it up into two pieces, wearing the ring and the swan on separate chains. Aside from the car it was the one thing she got to keep when she went to jail. 

But at some point she loses the swan. And it ends up in Neal’s hands. He says the necklace was supposed to represent their lives together. And this is what Belle says about it when Neal wonders how it survived the trip back to the Enchanted Forest.

“Because it was born out of true love.”

(I know something else that survived the trip to another realm because it was born out of true love.)

He gives it back to Emma once they’re back in Storybrooke right before he dies. And tells her to go find Tallahassee. But she never puts it back on. I wonder if she isn’t supposed to.

(x)

There’s even an exchange in there (3x21) between Emma and Rumple that sounds very Operation OUT-y. But, yeah.

[notafunkiller]

I’m so tired of reading these posts where they say that Klaus has never loved Caroline because he tried to kill her, that he loved Camille more, or/and that Caroline has never EVEN cared about Klaus... because he actually WAS the villain of HER story, that they are HAPPY she ended up alone because her epic love is Stefan! So let's talk. Long post ahead.

I don’t know where to start, and, honestly, I don’t care how much I hate I will get after saying what I’m planning to!

Let’s adress:

1. Klaus trying to kill Caroline & the whole ‘loving Camille more' thing

I love Klaus! He’s always been one of my favorite villains (at first) and characters of all time. Most, though, in TVD. I found the layers of his personality very interesting. He was smart, witty, impulsive, with daddy... family issues, consumed by pain, and the possibility of being lonely and alone. He had an unhappy childhood that he used as an excuse for all the bad things he used to do, but it wasn’t just that. He was a big child. They don’t do what he wants, he shows them he’s the most dangerous creature in the world.

I loved how he started making progress, but still remaining the same old original hybrid that disguised his fears and feelings in hatred! The first time we see Klaus showing humanity and empathy towards someone outside his broken family was when he SAVED Caroline in 3x11. We saw that kindof human part of him when he actually apologized for doing that to her (making Tyler bite her as revenge), especially on her birthday. He talked to her, shared a part of him... he shared his views and talked about life, and future, and the dark thoughts he had, too. I remember reading an interview before the premiere of season 3 and being shocked that Klaus might get a love interest, which I thought would be a lady like Tyler’s mom. But I saw that episode and I just KNEW... and I was pretty intrigued! The gift was a sign of kindness, too, and that chance of seeing Klaus’ light was incredible after everything he’s done.

The second time he tries to kill her is in 4x13. He bites her after an argument, trying to get Tyler back. He put up his “big bad wolf” facade and thought he actually could do this... kill her. But he couldn’t. And as much as I HATED that he did this because it felt like he took a step back, I loved that he changed his mind. He was hurt and angry, but he just couldn’t let her die. He couldn’t. He let her in and she stayed for so long... until and long after that awful finale. He was afraid while he was calling her name that she actually died. And this is such a great progress for him because he let himself be vulnerable again, he didn’t deny he’s actually in love with her, even though he poses as that evil character and does bad things for no reasons from time to time.

She tried to kill him with the rest of the gang, too, so excuse me for not making such a big deal. He actually saved her several times during their journey: in 4x01, hearing about her being taken, he goes and saves her despite his sister and in 4x23 at her graduation.

In The Originals, I felt like I lost something... like the original family I loved and adored so much in TVD, wasn't the same. Yeah, I understand that they tried to show a different side of them... but it didn't feel right for me. And Camille? I found her quite something... but I couldn't actually truly like her because almost every scene she was in was with Klaus... and their moments reminded me TOO MUCH of the ones that Klaroline shared in TVD. It felt like they were trying to replace Caroline, which didn't feel right because Camille is an interesting character of her own, who should have been shown in a different light. (I liked Aurora, though. She was a feisty one!) But she had a good influence on him, I guess. It was a real therapy that Klaus needed to evolve. So no, I don't think Klaus loved her more than Caroline because he didn't love them in the same way.

2. Caroline never EVEN caring about Klaus... because he actually WAS the villain of HER story, that they are HAPPY she ended up alone because her epic love is Stefan.

Firstly, KLAUS wasn't the villain of CAROLINE's story, he was ELENA's, just like Damon was Caroline's in the first seasons (especially in s1). But that didn't stop Elena loving Damon, so why should have stopped Caroline? Because 'being good comes so easy to her'? I didn’t like Caroline’s love interests... and now I hate the list even more that they want to make us think Stefan was her only epic love. Elena's ex, her ex best friend. I felt like Stefan never fell in love with Caroline. He never noticed her, he never liked her, he never put her first... and it was like he was comparing her to Elena and she wasn't enough.

I really think that if Elena and Damon didn't match the way they did (I love Delena... they have an unique bond!) and they would have broken up, Stefan would have gone back to Elena.

And the whole 'the right way to have Stefan honored" thing is so awful! It made no sense! It didn't do justice to anyone! Stefan was selfless, he cared about Caroline in his own way... he would want to see her happy!

And it's been over a decade. She has the RIGHT to move on! I agree, she doesn't need a man by her side to be happy, but why bring her in Klaus' life again, make her open up, get closer, and then BUF! give her the same freaking ending?! She deserved better!

Matt was also Elena’s ex and they just didn’t fit, Tyler was a douche in my opinion, so she had an awful love life. Let's just make Caroline Elena's shadow, making her fall in love with all of her exes and kill the ONLY one who actually wanted to wait for her however long it takes, who noticed and would notice her anywhere, who never forgot her, who challenged her, and evolved in time just like she did, the one who understood her, who wanted to show her the world, the pleasant little things, who wanted to teach her about life, and people, and art, and music, who knew how to handle the pain of losing the loved people, who shared the beautiful feeling of being a parent.

Because that's amazing and it totally makes sense!

So yes, I ship Klaroline and I've been shipping them since the very begining despite whatever the antis say, because they had this intense connection: the darkness, the light, the fear and the empty feeling of not being good enough, the pain and the love, the attraction and chemistry... they matched so beautifully and they'll always and forever be my endgame!