#i just know the circe saga is gonna be so much worse

[mythology-void]

congratulations! I will now never recover

I drew it...

[asofterepilogue]

I deeply love the epic musical but I have one big and unfortunately pretty central issue with it, and it's that it often seems to conflate kindness and stupidity.

odysseus' mistake wasn't sparing ("sparing") polyphemus, it was going into a cave full of food when he knew something was off about it from the beginning, and then giving the cyclops his real name when he had already won. it wouldn't have mattered that polyphemus was still alive if odysseus had just stuck to his brilliant original plan. polyphemus had to live long enough to move away from the exit that he was blocking, and going back to kill him once he was awake would have been incredibly dangerous, and hard to justify when he'd already so easily killed 7 (14?) men. mercy didn't have all that much to do with it, even though odysseus, athena, poseidon, the crew - the narrative itself at times - all later insist that's what doomed odysseus.

still, the lesson odysseus somehow learns from that is that he needs to be ruthless (which he already clearly is! he might hate it, he might wish he didn't have to be, but he is, at the end of the day, ruthless enough to murder a baby). but when it actually comes down to a choice between mercy and ruthlessness (and not just... a test of whether he can keep his mouth shut), mercy does a lot more for him than ruthlessness.

he's at his most callous in scylla's lair, and how does that work out? he makes the crossing, sure, but his crew attacks him, knocks him out, and takes the opportunity to do the most insanely idiotic thing they possibly could have, which ultimately sends them to their death, and odysseus to 7 years of suffering.

in contrast, odysseus gets help from circe. he chooses to go back for his men, he chooses not to lead with violence, he chooses to appeal to her mercy, and she ultimately chooses to be merciful herself. that's the only time odysseus and his crew aren't worse off having stopped somewhere. and it's not because odysseus was ruthless, it's not because he put his emotions aside, it's not even because he tricked anyone into anything - it's because he was unselfish and honest (but not completely stupid! he didn't provoke her, he used the moly well, etc.), and was met with kindness.

the implicit false equivalence between kindness and stupidity is even more jarring once you get to the wisdom saga, because athena is learning the exact opposite lesson. she's much kinder to telemachus even though he never seems as promising a "warrior of the mind", she sounds downright nostalgic telling him about odysseus, she admits she hasn't been sleeping well since she and odysseus fought.

she chooses to help odysseus not because she can use him for her own glory, but because he's her friend after all, and he's suffering.

and she doesn't win the god games by being ruthless (as in, cruel to her opponents) but by being smart. you could argue she's manipulating them, but I think she's just trying to find what would sway them, and she's not dishonest or mean about any of it. she can be smart without necessarily being ruthless!

there are still two sagas left, so maybe odysseus won't finish the story thinking he has to be the monster every time everywhere if he wants to win (though considering the snippets and tracklist... yeah I'm gonna doubt that). either way, I know I'll love it. I just don't love the casual way wit and callousness get conflated throughout what we've seen of the musical so far.

[urbestestwindgod]

epic the musical sagas 1-7 song rating tw i have bad taste

1. keep your friends close—this shouldnt be a shocker this was the song that after knowing abt epic but noy having tiktok at the time to be able to see its progress n stuff i didnt know much abt it n listening to the songs out of order was confusing but the moment i hesrd this enchanting melody i was a fan fan downloading tiktok just for the updates from jorge this has been my unbeatable favorite for a while im rlly annoying abt it as we know

2. open arms—the first released song i heard that introduced me to epic and again not knowing much abt it or how to listen to it in order in the early days (fun fact my intelligence peaked in algebra and ive never been that smart abt anything else ever) seeing ppl talk abt polities not knowing he died was kinda scary like wdym this cutie goes to “the wrong club”?? :(

3. suffering—its fun n ody gets to talk to his wife what do u want from me

4. scylla—AHHHHHHHHHH i fold over and seize every time those strings start after the “hello”

5. ruthlessness—like the idea of poseidon man handling him what can i say WHAT DO YOU W A N T from meee

6. wouldnt you like—i would i would

7. remember them—hes so dumb i lovw him

8. lucky runs out—if iii wasnt overstimulated rn i could gather my thoughts and explain this but unfortunately i am a student

9. storm—this and luck runs out are twins in my head and heart

10. polyphemus—THATS MY CYCLOPS!!! HELL YEA!!!

11. legendary—very good, love how telemachus sings like an adolescent love his dreams and love him unfortunately it IS in the same saga as….her

12. little wolf—I THOUGHT WE WOULD ALL AHIP HIM AND ANTINOUS AFTER THIS AONG BC THERES TENSION GUYS I SWEAR WDYM ITS CONTROVERSIAL :(

13. no longer you—if i could dance i would dance to this, with air probably but still

14. full speed ahead—need this song spoonfed to me while i bang on the table like a toddler in a highchair

15. the horse and the infant—NEOPTOLEMUS MENTIONED??? AHHH!!!!

16. different beast—lovely lovely lovely his voice is so

17. survive—oooo uhhhh

18. mutiny—it shocks me every time somehow

19. monster—should be higher but i forgor abt it srry—yeayea great song kick my feet to it wvery tim

20. warrior of the mind—greek son and thought daughter (was funnier in my head)

21. my goodbye—she leaved :(

22. puppeteer—if circe (odyssey) didnt plague my view of circe (epic) i would like her songs more sorry guys

23. done for—is it baaaaadddd that i dont have many thoughts on this :(

24.there are other ways—IM SURE THERE ARE CIRCE IM SURE THERE ARE

25. thunder bringer—again this was meant to be higher but i was gonna put it somewhere special and forgor :(

26. the underworld—oh ouch ouch ouch ouchie ouch

27. god games—THE SNIPPET OF THIS WAS THE FIRST EPIC SONG I EVER HEARD AND KICKSTARTED A GREEK MYTHOLOGY PHASE THAT MY FAMILY WILL NEVER FORGIVE JORGE FOR. apollos part was so short tho 😔 sigh…

28. just a man—I LIKE IT I JUST NEVER REMEMBER IT AGHHHHH I LOVE IT THO I SWEAR I SWEAR I SWEAR

29. we’ll be fine—OMFGOMFGOMFG unfortunately it is right before….yeaaaa

30. love in paradise—OH EWEWEWEWEWEW i would like this a lot more if people didnt act like calypso deserved to feel happiness or joy or pleasure or even life? idn where this unbridled hatred for her comes from i dont feel this way about way worse characters BUT I WANT EVERY DEATH IN THE ILIAD DONE TO CALYPSO FIVE TIMES EACH CALYPSO WHEN I CATCH UR ASS—its not even about odysseus anymore ody get in the car mama has business to attend to WHEN IM NOT SORRY FOR LOVING U COMES OUT I WILL SHAKE MY HEAD IN DISAPPOINTMENT AND and gently and discreetly remove it from my epic playlist :3 i block everyone i see who talks positively about her genuinely she ruins my day. i know shes not real but still the concept of her makes me physically shake in anger sometimes in the middle of my perfectly normal day SHE SUCKS I HATE HER I HATE HER I HATE HER SO FUCKING MUCH dont ask me why i dont know why but just just put me in a room with her and every weapon ever ever made that would be wish fulfillment for me

saga rating is ocean, thunder, cyclops, troy, underworld, circe, wisdom (and depending on how im not sorry for loving u goes justr know vengeance is going in eighth)

anyways uhm im a little manic this week but i hope i didnt make u hate me TOO much with this i am aware that my taste in everything is bad my favorite food is plain butterless angel hair noodles ans my favorite drink is water, my favorite color is green, my favorite animal is probably frogs bc most animals give me the heebie jeebies, and my favorite book is frankenstein thanks for being here i love u :3