#i just feel like odile would be. y'know.

[ravenwolfie97]

i don't remember how i got this thought but i HAD to get it out of me

[lucabyte]

i am looking at nohats au 👀 please share more

So! NoHats! I'm going to grab you and use this to ramble. A Lot.

The NoHats AU is @samhainian's it's just that I'm the strange little freak who takes the words said unto me and executes on them. But I can still do a little explainer on what our overall thoughts and vibes are. (And, that we are in fact propping up a little box with some cheese under it here. 🪤 Please (PLEASE) feel free to pick up what we're putting down.)

We're far from the only ones exploring a "what if siffrin fucking died" AU, though the main difference with NoHats is the placement of the death in the timeline. Instead of being 'Mal Du Pays Wins' or 'Act 6 encounter goes horribly wrong', the death is… Just after the (literal) falling action.

(This placement is because Sam is a comic book fan who thus has become used to characters being ripped away at the cruelest times by shitty writers. THANK FUCKING GOD adrienne is not that and isat is delightful yippieee, but, back on topic.)

Giving the party the full understanding of What Happened that you get by putting the death after black hole siffrin, but before the A6 encounter leaves an interesting gap to be filled. See, making Siffrin's death very much not Loop's fault means that… this once again reads (when not read as simply a tragedy...) as the universe doing what it sees fit to fulfull Loop's wish… Thus making Siffrin's death Loop's fault again, but only in their eyes. And only in a way they could express if they were honest about who they were…

And this is where having had excuse to waffle about my general Postcanon Loop thoughts the other day comes in handy, because Sam and I have that as our canon-compliant reading to begin with, NoHats plays off of a lot of the same readings of Loop's character. Namely: Uh Oh Somebody's Lying By Fucking Omission Again. (BECAUSE TO BE FAIR THIS TIME… HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU HANDLE THAT?)

Now, neither Sam nor I are fanfic writers, so this has been a little bit trapped in our heads and DMs (and my unfinished art but,)

But our thoughts on how NoHats like… Goes.

Siffrin's death is peaceful, but that does not mean the aftermath of it is. I can't imagine the party takes it well, especially after understanding the circumstances of the Loops. (And, of note, in A5 where nobody had the discussion on what to do with each other's bodies should something happen…) But I'd imagine it traumabonds them somewhat (understatement of the century) and now knowing how the rest of the party feels, they resolve to travel together for the forseeable future.

The party track down Loop to deliver the terrible news, since they were clearly Siffrin's friend too, and invite Loop along to travel at least long enough to (let them grieve) get the burial over with. Loop, here, can be helpful in knowing what Siffrin would've wanted where the party would be at a loss. Loop, I think, takes a bit of a lead on the funerary aspects of it all, because, um. (Performing rites on your own body, huh?)

Then, as things are after a death, life just… Kind of has to continue on as normal. The party travel, pick up Nille, and get to know Loop as this mysterious new person. Maybe in this situation they might stay in Bambouche for a while to give Bonnie more stability since. They are probably taking it the worst. It would've come out of absolutely nowhere for everyone in the party obviously but god, for a kid? For A Kid?

It should be stated NoHats is not intended to be grimdark, just y'know. An exploration of grief. This is also why it's got a bit of a lopsided focus on Bonnie vs the rest of the party because hhrrhghghhghghhhghhghhh <- incoherent

Now, a crossroads.

How does the party discover Loop to be Siffrin? How long does it take. How much have the party embraced them as part of the family (especially with something as intense to bond over as this)?

There's the Odile option. Have her put it together and have to bring it up somehow. This could also be done by Isabeau, perhaps. He's smart. (which. God. If anything's the real Isabeau Torment Nexus it's this)

Then there's the other option batted around by Sam and I. The: The Universe Dislikes Duplicates option.

The items in the house that fzzt away when inspected. The Universe doesn't like there to be two of something, at least not when they're acknowledged. But one of something is just fine…?

Which is to say. I'm not a personal proponent of 'Loop getting their body back'. EXCEPT …… except this one time.

There's only one Siffrin now, so they don't need to be obfuscated to exist.

Consider, if you will. Loop swallowing their guilt for long enough to be comfortable. Falling back into old habits. Without another Siffrin around to compete for the niche of, they actually begin to act like Siffrin again. Not intentionally, it's just… The party is as welcoming as they've always been. And the party swears they keep catching glimpses of a face under all the light.

Then, one day, while still not fully human again, the resemblence becomes undeniable. Loop having not even noticed until everyone looks at them like they've seen a ghost.

Has it been months? How long have they kept up this lie? Is it even a lie, to them? They're Loop. But they were, once, Siffrin.

Even after explaining it, does that make it better or worse?

Bonnie cuts through the betrayed, struck-nerve reactions with a sobering "I missed you."

… Anyway !

Yeah so that's the vibe for NoHats. As for LoopLoops? That's more nebulous. I think it can go anywhere really in the NoHats timeline. I err personally toward the "Loop continuously replays the last 10 minutes before Siffrin's death almost immediately after they find out and have to parkour their ass up the House in the most distressing situation possible to try and get them to hold on, just please hold on." (Remember! Siffrin can remember the contents of Loop's loop backs in the A6 fight!)

But there is the possibility that this happens months, or worse years down the road. One last Loop back. Throw it all away for the chance to just get that one thing you didn't know you even wanted but now know you NEED.

Misc:

Okay miscellaneous time.

This is where I admit that I have a bunch of unfinished NoHats art that I haven't gotten around to yet because I feel like a right tool being so obviously Loop-Centric with my fancontent (I AM . . I REALISE I AM NOT DOING MUCH TO BEAT THE ALLEGATIONS.) So like if people want to see that please say because euaghghghhfh <- the nervous.

this is like the most fucked up place to do isaloop fr. anyway.

one of Sam's mid-game observations that I'm just going to share for no particular reason is that Bonnie's hair shares a bunch of shapes with Siffrin's. The flick up at the top, the 3 pronged shape of the fringe… just something to think about.

Without 2 Siffrins around to compare each other to it'd likely be a lot harder to notice Loop's similarities. Doesn't mean that those similarities don't sting more in this context though.

If you do NoHats without LoopLoops. The concept of this all fading into memory years down the line while they just have slightly-glowy but otherwise regular Siffrin hanging out is fucked up to think about. Just like real grief. Augh

6. a peek into the original dms as a treat from us

[therantingsage]

Is there a point where Loop admits\realizes Siffrin's telling the truth? (I feel...oddly passionate about this. Probably to an unhealthy degree...)

I've noticed lmao. Here's how it goes down. idk what part of this is the part you're eager for but (under the cut for various spoilers):

After a certain point, as I've said, Siffrin starts to talk to the Empty Party with the intention of communicating with the one puppeting them. And, thus, starts to have full-on, genuine, repeated conversations with the Change God. Complete with their faces going all weird.

Loop is watching as much of what Siffrin's going through as they can. The first few times the party acts weird, they brush it off as 'not my party not my circus not my monkeys etc' and just decides "not like they WOULD act like who I want them to be." But. But. There's only so many times you can watch Odile's facial features disappear, only so long you can stare at a Bonnie with Too Many Eyes before....y'know. They'd be stupid to keep insisting to themself that Siffrin's making stuff up to mess with them.

But the thing is....Loop is stubborn. Loop, character-wise, would NEVER go up to Siffrin twiddling their fingers going "sowwy, i was a big meanie and you were right and i was wrong and i'd love to talk to your friends actually". Loop just wouldn't do that.

By the time they realize they were wrong, by the time they realize they'd been that callous, and the party had been there to witness it...they figure rekindling, trying to make amends, trying to make up for it, none of that would...work. To them it would be a lost cause. To them it would be pitiful. They've already fallen so far. They've already proven themself a quitter.

They refuse to let Siffrin ever see them again.

And when Siffrin forces them to talk, despite their avoidance...they're breaking apart drastically. They barely have enough face to even support one eye.

........on that note I'm actually considering having the secret fight happen before the post-game. But I haven't plotted out the motivations for it yet so I'll figure out the how's and why's later.

[vampiromano]

okay uhhhh all my thoughts are scrambled so this is just kind of midnless yapping. about. stuff

1. okay so the king is. yeah idk why I trusted him when I should've logically understood that the guy has absolutely no idea about the previous convos we had. it does make me wonder whether I could've changed his mind by asking EVERYTHING and gifting him th flower all over again but. I doubt it. why would he change if this is all he has y'know. and if his literal god sorta told him he was doing what he had to.i dunno he's very interesting and I'm actually looking forward to the next fight

2. also looking forward to my next chat with loop. gotta wonder what they'll have to say about the guy who was so desperate to be understood thry Wished to get another self to talk to. I'm not sure it's gonna be the chat that gets me to The Reveal Of Loop's Identity as Siffrin2 or whatever BUT it's certainly heading that way if it isn't.

or maybe not! they're fun like that.

3. colours!!!!!!!!! nothing more to add just Colours.

ACTUALLY definitely something to add. did the same thing that happen to colours happen to the island????? is that it???????? will it be explained????? i really doubt it'll be explained. alas.

4. How Does Loop Feel About Their Home Country No Longer Existing. do they feel like Siffrin? or are they avoiding it the way Siffrin was for a while? are they detached bc now it's technically not theirs (assuming they're Alternate Siffrin and not Future Siffrin, bc I don't think Future Siffrin would make that much sense? okay maybe. some sense but. idkkkkk)? LOOP I NEED TO LOOK INSIDE YOUR BRAIN

5. Isabeau is soooo perceptive I luv him. my aversion to the crush has gotten slightly better the more Siffrin is reciprocating it and the less I'm thinking of Siffrin as Guy I'm Playing As (the more I think of them as A Character and not An Avatar, is what I mean). so I'm growing to appreciate him a lot more he's my fave guy. truly so cool. I get him. if nobody got me I know my man isabeau got me. he's my best friwnd.

6. fuck okay where was i. anyway everyone's reacting differently the more time passes and I think it's bc Siffrin is having such an astronomically bad fucking time it's transcending time. i feel like if I were in a room with them I'd just DIE I'd just say fuck this stupid baka life and drop to the ground and never move again from how rancid their vibes are. Siffrin is having the worst time anyone's ever had and I feel so sorry for him I hope I can at the very least lead him well enough he'll TALK to ANYONE(other than loop) about ANYTHING or else.

(I feel like talking to Loop is not very helpful bc Loop is just THEM but WORSE. like they already had their worst life. I don't think much good can come from talking to the version of yourself that DEFINITELY had it bad as well and seemingly BECAME A FUCKING STAR about it. idk. I'm rambling. I need to know more about Loop I need to help them also. I hope they get a happy ending with my Bones.)

7. Odile my best friend Odile is ALSO being very perceptive but she's kinda scary about it. either way I hope god do I HOPE she'll be the first to figure the loops out. or SOMETHING. bc I need Siffrin to talk to her about them I need to know what she THINKS.

8. irks me that nobody ever mentions that Siffrin poses for the picture!!! they're literally smiling!!!! every time!!!!! anyone say anything please!!!!!

9. Siffrin cut himself on glass. I was surprised! not sure it's quite self harm yet bc it didn't seem intentional BUT I have a feeling we're heading down that route!!! which is interesting!!!!!! they're certainly very self loathing and quite safe of Proper Death. idk. need to keep playing I guess.

10. Messi❤️

11. anyway yeah that's it I've got a lot of thoughts I hope someone found them mildly amusing at least!!!!

[missingn000]

y'know I notice about the swan motifs that both Maki and Yuuta share not only to symbolize Ugly Duckling tale, but also that another meaning for their shared swan motifs could also reference the Swan Lake of both Odette(White Swan) and Odile(Black Swan). I might be reading into this too much, but it feels like that Maki would be the Odile to Yuuta's Odette. In that Yuuta would be favored by jjk society (due to his OP potential), but is also cursed by factors outside his control (Rika, hit and run) and lethally bounded by love of sorts (binding vow with Getou). Just like how Odette is loved by audience as a protagonist of her story, and also cursed (by evil sorcerer for literally no reason) and bounded by love of sorts (permanently a swan if the love of her life died). While Maki is like Odile in that she (unintentionally) committed duplicity to be Toji's child (just like how Odile is sent to trick the prince by impersonating Odette), is more of an outcast in jjk society due to no cursed energy (just like how Odile is a villain and not liked by audience), AND statistically black swans are more rare than white swans (like how those with Heavenly Restrictions AND no cursed energy are really rare and hard to come by).

Again, I might be reading into this, but I just can not help but think that this is intentional parallel! If so, that's amazing!

whoa, i love this amazing parallel you've drawn!! this one is unintentional, since i'm unfamiliar with the plot of swan lake, but it works so perfectly and i'm so flattered you analyzed their dynamic this closely!! thank you so much for sharing this with me, it's so unbelievably cool

[odilestpierre]

"I miss Paris." Odile admitted, and it came out much easier than she expected. While it'd been beyond comprehension in terms of their living standards, there was something about her home, the city where she felt most like herself. She'd been born there, and for that, it would always have a piece of her. That place? It called to her like a siren. They'd come from money, her and Laurent, and sometimes she wondered if they were to go to Paris, he would've been saved from his current nightmare...she'd go anywhere so she didn't have to bury the only person she'd ever truly cared for in her life. Down to her core. "I hope you get to go back and visit soon, I feel sometimes it's always good to remember where we came from," even if for her, there was only that of wealth and family traditions.

Ones that had exiled him from her life. He was on her mind a lot.

Following immediately after, she took bac the vodka and barely grimaced. "Giordana, I've heard of. Good fighter, but nice enough. Just don't push her, I'm not sure if she's the kind...to, y'know...snap." and with the types of people they'd grown up around, she knew exactly what she meant. "I got Giorgio, actually, Giordana's friend, I believe? They work together, if I'm not mistaken."

"I've been here four years and I still miss the sun. London is my home now, but it'd be nice if it was about 30% less depressing."

Yvonne knocked back some of the vodka, letting her eyes drift shut for a moment as the burn subsided into warmth. Just as quickly she forced them back open before she fell asleep where she was sitting....again.

"I got Giordana. I don't know her or anything about her, but it could always be worse." Another drink. "What about you?"