#i firmly believe that whether or not something in fiction is seen as 'stupid' entirely depends on how the audience feels

[denizenhardwick]

I think the reason why TFC is so "love it or hate it" right off the bat is that it takes its concept seriously and doesn't try to ease the audience into it, so if you aren't willing to suspend your disbelief and buy into that concept from page one, you're going to think it's incredibly stupid. It throws a lot of information at you immediately and expects you to suspend your disbelief and roll with it. Because above all else these books are entirely unapologetic about what they are, that's one of the series's greatest strengths, and throwing you into them like this weeds out people who probably wouldn't have a good time anyway.

[aenwoedbeannaa]

Pretty Words | Geralt x Reader

Requested by: salmonbutter 

Summary: Geralt may have needed some help finding a book, and the bookkeeper's apprentice may be the reason he keeps coming back. 

Word Count: 2,319 

Warnings: Implied smut.

The first time he came into the rather blandly named Book Emporium, you had been an Apprentice, still shaking with nerves every time the bell on the door announced the coming of a customer. Now, of course, you can handle curious visitors with ease--you know every nook and cranny of the shop. You know where to find books on monsters, from alghouls to wyrvenns. You know which books identify plants and their magical properties, and which books can help an herbalist use those very same plants to create poisons.

But, on the day that the Witcher first walked into the store, you were probably more lost than he was as you dashed between the stacks, trying to find the book he was looking for. You could feel your face blushing, your cheeks positively on fire, when he gave you a playful feline grin and pulled a book off of the shelf that you would not have been able to reach without stepping up onto the battered wooden ladder.

You were scared, because this was your first time alone in the shop, and you didn't want Artur to think you incompetent. You wiped your sweaty palms on your apron, feigning nonchalance. You were desperately trying to think of something to say, anything to break the tension.

Thankfully, you didn't have to.

"Well, with it being all the way up here, it's not a wonder that you didn't see it," he said with a smirk. 

****

The second time the bells chimed and you looked up to see his familiar white hair, you were thankfully much more composed. It had been at least a couple of months since you had last seen him, and you wondered if he had used that book on wraiths to kill one. He was a Witcher, after all.

You maneuvered around the few stray piles of books behind the counter and stepped around front to greet him.

"Geralt!" You exclaimed, a bit too brightly.

Mentally cursing yourself for looking, you assumed, like a star-struck villager. "How can I help you, Sir?"

"You can start," he began slowly in that gravely tone that you'd been playing over and over in your head since the last time he'd been here, "By dropping the Sir." 

You nodded--too eagerly, once again. "Of course! Sorry si--Geralt."

"Second, I didn't catch your name last time, Miss."

Given that you had spent most of your life lost in books, you were not used to that question. You were invisible to most people, it seemed.

"Y/N," you answered timidly.

You weren't sure if it was the fact that you were not so great at hiding your emotions or whether he could hear your hammering heartbeat with his Witcher senses, but either way, you heart leapt into your throat when he leaned over on the counter, bringing his face only inches from yours.

"Are you always this nervous, Y/N?" He leaned slightly closer, a seemingly out-of-place grin on his lips. "Or are you scared of Witchers?"

It was a rhetorical question, but you answered anyway, conversation coming easy despite all of the awkwardness.

"No, not afraid of Witchers," you said, a vivid memory coming to mind. "Once, when I was little, I was sitting out in the field--on the hill--you know, the one outside the town a ways away?"

He nodded understanding, so you continued on.

"Well, I was reading, and all of a sudden, this thing... " You shuddered at the memory, losing your train of thought for a moment.

"A Drowner?" the Witcher interrupted your strangled thoughts. "The stream there is teeming with them. They usually stay well away from settlements, though." His amber eyes hinted concern as he looked at you expectantly.

You nodded, pushing the unpleasant memory out of your head.

"Yes, a Drowner... And anyway, there was a Witcher... He hacked it up pretty well."

"I'll have to thank him," Geralt said so seriously that you believed him wholeheartedly.

"Vizimir was his name," you added, surprised you could still remember. "He wouldn't even let me pay. I offered him the book I was reading--I didn't have any gold, you see."

"So, the old man doesn't always follow the Witcher Code," he said with a gleam in his eye.

There was a moment of silence before he finally broke eye contact and leaned back, eyes scanning the stacks of books behind you as if searching for something to focus on.

"I am here for a book about similar things," he said. "Would you happen to know if you have a book about alghouls, would you?"

This time, you knew exactly where to point him. He still stuck around to hear your explanation of three different volumes and the slight difference between.

He bought all three.

***

The pattern continued over the next few months. Every few weeks, the door chime would sound and you would look up to see your silver-haired friend.

One time in particular, you were surprised to see that the afternoon had faded to twilight and the candles had burned down nearly to stumps as you poured over books with Geralt. He was researching a Witcher potion, or something like it that was more suitable for humans. He didn't tell you what for, but it didn't matter much.

He ended up purchasing one of the rare texts, the ones you had to fish out from the back room.

Another time, he caught you off guard, while you were completely wrapped up in the novel you were reading. You nearly jumped out of your skin when you heard his voice from just over the counter. Your embarrassment only grew when he asked you what it was that you were so interested in that you hadn't even heard the door chime and you had to give him a brief synopsis of a fictional kingdom... and a princess and a knight.

It was really quite mortifying.

***

Though you will never admit it, your favorite section of the store is nestled in the back corner, where the deceptively large collection of fiction is stacked on crowded shelves. Your mentor is always telling you that you should be reading books of more importance. But those books, as important as they may be, are of little interest to you. You know enough about history and mankind to know that the history books are full of only war, pestilence, and suffering.

Reading is your escape. So, important or not, you spend many a quiet afternoon nestled in the back of the shop on one of the old chairs that has been scratched to pieces by the bookshop's cat, Erasmus. (An old, fearsome looking but completely harmless thing with a bad habit of sharpening his claws on the furniture and chewing on the corners of priceless manuscripts.)

This is where Geralt caught you this time. Though, to be fair, you heard the door chime, and you'd had to scramble out of your warm little corner. It was actually just past closing hours, and there had hardly been a soul in the shop all day. It was one of those early winter days, where the weather seemed to be reminding everyone of the bitter cold to come.

"Y/N," Geralt grinned, "I found your lair." He had somehow managed to cross the length of the shop in only a couple seconds. How Witcher-y of him. You told him so.

By now, you had slipped into an easy friendship with the Witcher. You no longer stammered when he talked. At least, most of the time you didn't.

It took you a moment to realize that he was carrying something this time--a book. You raised an eyebrow, also immediately realizing that it was not a book from the shop. This one had a ribbon tied around it. Artur was not one for such frivolous things. There was not a scrap of ribbon or wrapping paper in the entire shop, you were sure. So he must have brought this with him.

Clearly aware that you were staring curiously, he offered it to you--for once, he was the one with a slightly bashful look on his face as he waited for you to take it.

You took the book in both hands, blushing slightly as you pulled the ribbon loose and inspected the cover. It was well-worn, just like most of the books in the shop. You recognized the author, though, and your eyes sparkled as you teared up slightly. You didn't even remember the last time someone had given you a gift.

"But..." You stammered, flipping through the pages in disbelief. "This isn't even supposed to exist!" It was a continuation of the book that he'd caught you reading before. It was published only once, so there were an incredibly limited number of copies. Sure enough, you saw the words 'first edition' printed on the yellowing page. "I mean... there are only, maybe, fifty in all the world!"

The Witcher's amber gaze was fixed on you as you poured excitedly over the text. "Well, I see a lot of the world," he said. "With my job, and all."

His words only served to fill you with more emotion. You wiped your eyes quickly, not wanting to look stupid for crying over a silly book. "Thank you, Geralt," you said, eyes fixed on the book so that you wouldn't have to look up at him with tears in your eyes. "Truly."

You registered the feeling of his calloused fingers under your chin at half-speed. The world seemed to slow down has he titled your face up to his. He brushed a stray tear with the pad of his thumb. His touch was gentle even though his skin was rough. Your knees nearly buckled.

"Don't cry on me, Y/N," he said, voice softer than you'd ever heard it. "I'm glad you like it."

For what felt like an endless time, but was probably only a few seconds, the two of you just stood there, staring at each other, unable to look away as if held by magic.

Tension pulled tight as a rope when he spoke next.

"I'm not an expert on these kinds of things, but a when there are no monsters to save the Princess from, it only seems right that the Knight brings her a present."

"I...Gera--" he cut off you stuttering by pulling you firmly into his arms and pressing his lips to yours.

You responded immediately, so quickly that the book slipped from your hands as you wrapped your arms around his neck and kissed him back. Breathing seemed basically out of the question when one one of his arms snaked around your waist and the other tangled itself firmly in your hair.

You had to admit, you certainly felt like a princess when he picked you up, avoiding the stray stacks of books littering the floor. You were absolutely certain, though, that the cold of his Witcher medallion pressing against your chest was a far more pleasant feeling that chain mail would.

You had approximately a millisecond to catch your breath when he pulled away to lay you on on the oversized chair and strip off his weapons and then he was on top of you, with his lips on your neck.

You had no idea how much time passed between that first kiss and when you lay with your head in his lap, his fingers stroking your hair, out of breath and utterly spent. All you knew was that you'd knocked more than a few piles of books over. There was lots of moaning--you? Him? Your head was still too clouded to remember.

Finally, though, you had to get up and pull your clothes back on. You couldn't very well sleep in the store, no matter how much you wanted to just lay there, curled up against his warmth.

Geralt stayed with you as you did your final rounds around the shop, extinguishing candles and placing loose books, abandoned by customers in the strangest of places, as usual. Thankfully, this was a relatively simple task considering you knew the bookshop like the back of your hand. Admittedly, it was a task you usually did in the morning before the shop opened. But Geralt was here now, and you wanted to stretch your time with him as far as you could.

Soon enough, however, every stray book was in its place, and all but the candle glowing on the wall next to the door were long-cold. You hesitated in the doorway, keenly aware of Geralt standing only inches away.

You blinked up at him, feeling uncertain of what you should say next. This was not a position that you were often in. In fact, it was a situation that you were never in.

Finally, you manage to cobble together a sentence out of the thousands of words in your head.

"I do hope to see you again soon, Geralt."

The Witcher's amber eyes are fixed on yours, looking like liquid gold even in the faint light of the single candle.

"Well, it is winter," he said thoughtfully. "And I was thinking that this year, perhaps, I'd like to do my wintering somewhere away from Kaer Moren."

You smiled then, tentatively reaching out to touch him, but pulling back at the last moment. You chewed on your lip for a moment, heartbeat racing in your chest.

"I know a place that you could stay."

Geralt's gaze had not left you for a moment, but now he reached to pull you to his chest, pressing a kiss on the top of your head, stopping for a moment to breathe in the smell of your hair.

Geralt pulled away slightly, one large hand resting on each shoulder.

"Please, lead the way, Princess," he said as he blew out the final candle. 

[marshmallowgoop]

senketsu raped ryuko in their first scene together. shipping them is gross.

It’s fair if you feel it’s a bad pairing.

However, what does sending this rude ask essentially calling me a disgusting person for shipping them accomplish? I’ve written a plethora of essays about how much I hate Senketsu’s first scene, how I don’t fault anyone for disliking the relationship Senketsu and Ryuko share as a result, and how I wish his introduction had been handled differently. 

Please don’t act like I don’t recognize and acknowledge the problematic aspects of what I enjoy. I do. If you had attempted to look for this subject on my blog at all, you would see that.

If you’re really interested in a discussion on this, I can link you:

Senketsu’s First Scene*Further Analysis*Even More* Final Thoughts* 

What Changes Would You Make to Senketsu’s First Scene?

8 Reasons Folks Can’t Get Down with Pairing a Girl and Her Sailor Uniform Together: Masterpost of Rebuttals to Common Criticisms Against Ryuketsu* (point 5)

Do People Actually Ship Ryuko and Senketsu?

Ryuko’s Choice to Wear Senketsu

Or, to address your main point, I can quote what I’ve already written. From the “Even More” post:

The question of whether or not Senketsu “technically raped” Ryuko is likely something that it is utterly dependent on what you define as “rape.” From what I understand, laws vary everywhere about the issue. Here’s just one article discussing the confusion, for a small, small example of the problem. With a million different definitions about what counts as what and what counts as what where, the terms are blurry. Add in shaky and dangerous ideas about consent, and it’s no wonder so many have to ask, “Wait, was I raped?”

I can only really offer you how I personally view this matter. My definition of “rape” lines up with a generic, dictionary.com definition: “unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.” Applying this to Kill la Kill, then, I don’t think it’s fair to say Senketsu raped Ryuko. They did not have sex. He is not penetrating her. In my personal opinion, I think it’s almost offensive to define this as “rape.”

Is it a rape joke that’s completely and totally disgusting? Absolutely. Is it what I would consider sexual assault? Yes. Senketsu removes Ryuko’s clothing, gropes her breasts, and forces her to wear him when she doesn’t want to. But I wouldn’t categorize it as rape. It’s like forcing someone into a bikini or a leotard when they don’t want to wear it. Awful, yes, harassment, yes, but it irks me to call that “rape,” which is something very serious in my mind that shouldn’t be made light of.

But, really, I’m just getting into semantics. The real question is: Do you think Senketsu’s actions are forgivable, given the situation? This is fantasy. Senketsu’s created from parasitic Life Fibers that want to hurt humans—just take a look at Junketsu and what happens to Kinue. His actions in his introductory scene follow this line and are completely against his characterization for the entire rest of the show. He’s clearly not in his right mind nor himself when this occurs.

From the “Senketsu’s First Scene” post:

… that first scene? That’s something Senketsu is so incredibly afraid of being. It’s probably his greatest fear of all, a fear that’s even reflected in the battle theme “Before My Body is Dry” with the line, “So help me to stay focused so I don’t fall apart.” He really, truly doesn’t want to be that forceful monster he is then. It’s horrifying to him, and that’s the way I think the scene should have been played—as horrifying.

And it’s not like Trigger is incapable of this. The scene where Satsuki first puts on Junketsu is a scary, powerful scene that really shows the monstrous nature of Life Fibers. The scene where Ryuko is forced into Junketsu is also much the same—scary and frightening.

The only reason I can think of Senketsu’s scene being played in the way it is is to show that Senketsu’s not really evil, since the whole thing’s treated as a joke. But… it’s just so jarring. What he’s doing is just the same as what Junketsu’s doing. It’s not funny in the slightest. Add in the not-so-subtle rape joke and it’s plain offensive.

But it’s not like this is an issue just with Senketsu’s first scene. This is my biggest beef with Kill la Kill in general—it, like a lot of anime and media these days, has a nasty habit of playing off sexual harassment and abuse as something hilarious. Personally, I don’t know why Senketsu’s first scene is always used as the worst example of this, since it’s shown to be pretty OOC for him early on and he never acts remotely like it ever again.

Meanwhile, characters like Mako and Aikuro do similar things to Ryuko when they are in their right minds. Mako gropes Ryuko’s breasts in her Hallelujah in episode 3, takes off her bra in the one in episode 5, and constantly invades Ryuko’s personal space and grabs onto her when it clearly makes Ryuko uncomfortable (see the motorcycle scenes in episodes 8 and 17). Yet, this is seen as funny, cute, and romantic. Then there’s Aikuro, who completely disrobes Ryuko in episode 2, immobilizes her with needles while she’s naked, and flirts with her when he’s her teacher and when doing such is completely inappropriate and brings Ryuko a lot of discomfort. And this, again, is seen as funny.

That’s not to say that I want to bash on these characters or pairings. I just ask why it is that these scenes and behaviors are excused as funny and cute when they’re very clearly not, while Senketsu’s first scene is—as it should be!—almost universally agreed to be disgusting and uncomfortable. Ryuko and Senketsu are one of my most favored relationships in all of fiction, but I would never dream of saying that their first meeting is anything adorable or hilarious. I honestly find it frightening that a lot of similar behavior—unwanted touching and removing of clothing—is brushed aside and laughed at because the perpetrator is a sexy teacher or a cute girl.

Of course, Senketsu’s first scene is a lot more intense, and I’m not stupid. I know exactly what they were referencing with it. It deserves to be controversial, and deserves to be spoken up against. But I think the hate against Senketsu for it is pretty… misguided, to say the least. Again, it’s not that it happens that makes it so bad in my eyes. It’s that we’re supposed to find one of Senketsu’s greatest fears hilarious. We’re supposed to think it’s funny that he’s hurting Ryuko, when his character is so utterly devoted to her and so terrified at the thought of bringing her any harm. This is something that I see as really sad, and it’s so disappointing that we don’t get to see Senketsu grapple with it or apologize for it.

Now, “not being in control!” or “not being in his right mind!” aren’t excuses for what Senketsu does, and it will always be awful and unacceptable. Even if he did apologize for it, it doesn’t erase what he did, and I think it’s a fair argument to say that you should stay away from people who have harmed you in the past. Personally, though, I don’t necessarily believe in that. I think people change all the time. Who I am now is different than who I was five years ago, for better or for worse. It’s the now that matters most to me, so in Senketsu’s case, he’s pretty much a darling sweetheart for the majority of the series, which I place a lot more importance on than his actions in a terrible, OOC-introduction scene where he’s overpowered by primal urges and not himself.

There’s definitely something to the idea that some actions are unforgivable, but when it comes to Senketsu, I lean against that. Still, I’m not going to argue with anyone who does feel that way—that’s just as valid as my feelings.

This got quite a bit longer than I intended. Basically, I hate the scene, but mostly because it’s framed as a joke. As someone who has been subjected to sexual harassment, I can firmly say that there’s absolutely nothing “funny” or “cute” about it, and I think it’s really disappointing and gross that the show plays Senketsu’s nasty behavior towards Ryuko in that way. Not only that, but it’s just so against his character, and is thus something incredibly tragic to me. Had it been played as the nightmare that it is to Senketsu, I don’t think the scene would be so widely hated, but instead seen for exactly what it is: a horrifying moment that must cause Senketsu great pain and fear.

From the “Final Thoughts” post:

I just personally am uncomfortable with categorizing Senketsu’s actions in his first scene as rape. Others may very well have their own valid reasons for defining it in that way.

But if the issue is indeed sexual assault, this is a huge problem in Kill la Kill in more ways than simply Senketsu’s introduction, since the show, unfortunately, falls into this common trend of playing off that kind of behavior for laughs … 

And believe me, I understand and think it’s totally fair if Senketsu’s behavior in episode 1 makes his relationship with Ryuko uncomfortable or unacceptable to some. But I also think that this conversation needs to be extended more often. Senketsu and Ryuko’s friendship—and Senketsu himself—get so absolutely vilified in amounts that I don’t see concerning Aikuro and especially Mako, which, personally, strikes me as unfair and a double standard. These characters also disrespect and assault Ryuko throughout the series—and when they’re in their right minds, too.

Of course, I don’t mean to accuse you of anything, Anon! I just feel that this issue is so, so much bigger than Senketsu and deserves to be talked about more. It really irks me that I retread this argument so many times whilst similar behavior coming from other characters is hardly called out, instead getting hailed as “cute” and “romantic.” In my opinion, if you’re comfortable pairing Ryuko with Aikuro or Mako and believe her relationships with them can grow and be healthy even after past instances of disrespect and harassment coloring their interactions (as I do!), then I don’t see any reason to think differently concerning Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship.

And, finally, from the “8 Reasons” post:

In my mind, there are bigger issues with the series’ handling of assault than Senketsu’s first scene, but beyond that, Senketsu is honestly probably the most respectful character towards Ryuko in the entire show. He never forces her to wear him when she doesn’t want to—and the fact that Ryuko does take him off multiple times across the series when she doesn’t want to emphasizes that her wearing of him isn’t her being a poor prisoner, but her choosing to be with him—and Senketsu values Ryuko’s thoughts and opinions, openly communicates with her, and constantly considers her wellbeing.

As I once put it, “[Senketsu] is nothing like that first scene in all actuality, and Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship is built not on nonconsensual behaviors and violence, but on respect and understanding.”

tl;dr, please stop acting like I don’t acknowledge the problems in Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship. I can like something and understand that it’s not perfect. I can like something and understand that others might hate it and think (fairly) that it’s offensive. 

I don’t want to make assumptions, but considering I’ve only been getting these mean-spirited asks since I wrote out my thoughts on Ragyo and got attacked for it, I figure there’s a connection. Please stop acting like my criticisms of Ragyo were somehow unique to her. I probably have more criticisms about Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship than even the biggest haters of the pairing, and I love them to pieces.

You can like something and also understand that not everyone will and might even find it problematic. Please stop sending me nasty, personally insulting messages about what I like when I have never, ever shamed you (or anons who think like you) for liking Ragyo.

[one-girly-geek]

My ultimate 14x20 thoughts post

Well, it’s finally time for me to type out my mess of feelings regarding the episode- and by extension, Dabb era as a whole.  As a whole, feelings will not be positive. You have been warned...

If anything, this finale made me more certain that it’s time for the show to end (before Dabb runs it into the ground completely).

I realized once and for all how dissatisfying later seasons have been for me just before this episode aired.  I was looking back at previous season finales and thought ‘when was the last time we had a season finale that was actually about our main characters?’ And I realized that there hadn’t really been one since, S11. An argument could be made that it hasn’t been since S10. 90% of the S12-14 finales have been about Jack...

Some small positives-

-The first half was fun.  It is nice to see that truth-spells don’t have the same effect that they used to- early seasons, the boys would have been yelling nasty, ugly things at each other, but now it’s just affectionate teasing+ the revelation that Dean reads mommy lifestyle blogs.  Everyone else was going nuts, but they’re so in sync with each other now, nothing really phased them. One thing the newer seasons have done well is to show that maturity between them.

-I was bracing myself for a big brofight, and was really grateful that that didn’t happen.  I was glad that what really pushed Sam to not be okay with killing Jack was the knowledge that Dean would have to die too.  It hurts, but he can go on without Jack. But not without Dean.

-Chuck was right, I liked the old Death better too.

-The last few seconds were an epic cliffhanger. I would have no qualms with if it wasn’t for what happened in the previous 20 minutes.

The rest- this is gonna be long. And probably incoherent. 

Disclaimer- I personally am religious, but I firmly believe I would have hated the ‘twist’ regardless.  I don’t and never have watched this show for theological accuracy.  Fiction=/reality. Now in no particular order-

-Why is everyone acting like it’s some revelation that Chuck knew what was going on and didn’t do anything?  They’ve known that since they knew Chuck existed. They had a whole conversation in S11 about it, they knew he was aware of everything that went on on Earth and usually didn’t interfere. So why is it some shocking reveal now that he...knew everything that was going on and didn’t do anything?

-Free will.  Are they trying to tell me that Chuck was, in fact, interfering all along and nobody had any free will? If so, way to just kill the biggest overarching theme in the show. We’ve already had the big storyline of the main characters saying screw destiny, and how making their own choices is the most important thing.  It’s arguably the most consistent theme over all these seasons.  And now Dabb &Co is basically spitting on it and saying it never mattered anyway? I know a lot of the current writers don’ care about previous seasons, but how do you screw that up?

-Scream at me all you like about how I’m just ‘buying into Chuck’s manipulation’ and ‘all the foreshadowing was there.’ because this was a retcon, plain and simple. Coincidence is not foreshadowing.  The Chuck originally created by Kripke was not like this, nor was he intended to be.  Carver had his issues, but the Chuck he worked with wasn’t like this either.  This a complete 180. 

The Chuck at the end of Swan Song, who said that free will and choice were the most important things in the world, wasn’t originally written to be a lying manipulator who would start an apocalypse because people...used their free will and choose family. Changing the entire original intent of that scene is a retcon.  The beautiful scene at the end of Don’t Call Me Shurly was not written to be ‘only putting on a cute guitar routine and playing us because manipulation.’ Forcing the viewer to look back at it now and assume that is a retcon. Chuck telling the angels to love and protect humanity (and he himself locking up the leviathans to protect the angels) but now saying he never really cared, is a retcon.

-This whole thing just retroactively taints so much that I loved, particularly S5 and S11. This about sums it up for me.

Not to mention, this definitely ruins the Sam/Dean/John Lucifer/Micheal/God parallels that were you know, kind of important in S4-5.  Now I am definitely not a fan of John by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s clear he was supposed to parallel Chuck/God as a largely absent father who made many mistakes, but ultimately did love and care for his children.  That’s out the window now.  

A good foreshadowing is when you look back and say ‘Oh! That made sense before, but now I have a deeper understanding then I did then’ The example I’m most fond of is the E10 reveal in Yuri!! on Ice. It’s not that everything didn’t make sense before the revelation that Viktor knew Yuri first and had been in love with him all along, but it deepened our understanding of him.  It fixed a few little things we wondered about, like why Viktor acted as forward as he did when first coming to Japan, but it didn’t fundamentally change who any of these characters were as people. You looked back at everything and were like ‘wow, that makes total sense‘ It was a well-planned, well executed bit of writing. It deepened our understanding of the characters, it didn’t change them completely and expect us to believe they were really that way all along.

-The amount of Lucifer/Micheal/Amara were right! posts I’m seeing around are frankly sickening.  Lucifer made his own decisions. Even if Chuck was bad all along- Lucifer loved him. He hated humanity, not Chuck.  He wanted to destroy humanity out of spite and jealousy.  Are we now saying he was right to do that?? That torturing human souls to turn them into demons, killing entire towns of people to raise Death, everything he did to Sam, everything he did to Kelly, how much he admitted he enjoys crushing teenagers skulls (and that’s just the tip of the iceberg)- all of that is okay because Chuck was bad?  Lucifer loved Chuck. He hated humanity. Whether or not he was right about Chuck’s motivations (and honestly, did he really care? so long as Chuck apologized to HIM, nothing else really mattered) doesn’t mean he was right about anything else. Ditto for Micheal.

Amara- she is a bit more complicated.  It could be argued that due to her nature, and how she’s been locked up for eons, she doesn’t have much of a sense of right and wrong the way other beings do. But just because you don’t know something is wrong, doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong. I’ve seriously seen people saying that ‘Amara did nothing wrong and Chuck only locked her up because SEXISM’ *headdesk*  Amara destroyed entire worlds before the current one.She wasn’t a totally innocent being, just locked up for the hell of it.  She herself admits that she did what she did out of jealousy, and that in the end she was wrong, because creation needed to exist. She didn’t actually hate Chuck, and they reconciled. (Now, I suppose they expect us to believe that the whole beautiful end of Alpha and Omega was a lie/manipulation as well? Retcon.

- Basically, this is lazy. And that’s a mark of Dabb era as a whole.  (He’s okay as a writer, but not as a showrunner).  Anything that was weird in previous seasons? We can just handwave it say ‘Chuck did it because manipulation.’  SPN has had a problem with constantly trying to escalate its villains-from demons to Lucifer to Metatron to Amara-and now to God? It’s just the laziest thing to do. Dabb was just like ‘we need the BIGGEST, WORSE villain of all for the last season! Who’s the most powerful being around? GOD!’ It’s utter LAZINESS.

-It didn’t have to be this way.  You could have done a final season as a love letter to the early show that started it all, not started another apocalypse. A lower stakes, character focused final season would have been great.  A tribute to what came before, while showing how far the characters have come since.  But no, Dabb had to be lazy and escalate everything once again, because the subtly and character driven plots seem to be beyond him. 

-I don’t know how they’re going to write themselves out of this one without massive retcons. You can’t kill Chuck or Amara and not have all of creation perish. But Dabb retcons everything whenever he wants to (see: every inconsistency regarding Jack’s soul magic/powers/morality this season), so I’m sure he’ll find some way to do that. (Which reminds me, does everyone going like ‘oh, Sam is such a badass for shooting Chuck!!’ remember the whole ‘Sun will go out and creation will die’ thing? It was tremendously stupid).

-I am so, so, so sick of Jack. I’m tired of everything and everyone revolving around him, anyone who goes against him being wrong, and everything he does being so easily forgiven. I’ve realized that most of my issues with the later seasons go right back to him. I didn’t want him dead (because of how it would affect others I do care about, not really because of him), but I wanted him gone.  Now, he is dead, but not gone at all. He’s hanging out with the Empty and Billie, which means a huge part of the plot of S15 is gonna revolve around him again. I stg if we end with Jack basically becoming God, Dabb is gonna catch these hands. Talk about being the ultimate Sue, who took over the whole show from the main characters...

-All I wanted was a lower-stakes season focused on the actual main characters and no one else...I guess that was too much to ask for.

-There’s some interesting theories going around that might make some sense of all of this, but I don’t know if I trust the currents showrunners to be smart enough to use them.

https://missjackil.tumblr.com/post/184463865432/theory-chuck-isnt-throwing-a-tantrum-at-all-he

-So that’s it. I’ll still be watching S15 because I’ve invested too much time into this show not too, and because I still care about the boys and J2,and of course I’m going to cons for the same reasons. It’s not their fault the writing is shit...

P.S You’ll not convince me that part of J2′s choice to end the show wasn’t due to the writing.  They’ve said before that they would keep going as long as the writing was good- then S13-14 happened and they’ve decided to stop. They’re far too nice/professional to ever come right out and see it, but it makes sense. I also think they realized that they couldn’t get the time off they wanted and still make a show they were happy with. We’ll see what the upcoming con circuit says, since they’ve got less reason than ever to hold back their opinions. 

[docholligay]

Silverleaf 9: Shadow Puppets

HEYO and welcome to your next edition of Silverleaf, GRACIOUSLY sponsored on my patreon by Benjamin! Please thank him for this series, it’s people like him that keep my bills paid and content coming! My patreon is HERE and my ko-fi is HERE, if you want to thank me or chip in! Also, i LOVE comments, so I would LOVE if you left one. The entire series is here. 

Her heels clicked against the marble of the entryway as her coat was taken from her, Michiru barely waiting long enough for the butler to remove it properly. She glared at the flowers on the side table, the way they were bright and cheap and inelegant and lovely, too lovely for a place like this. Too lovely for the cold, carved crystal of the vase in which they sat.

“Get rid of those.” She said to her butler dismissively, and he nodded, not bothering to ask why the bouquet she’d been so pleased with when Haruka had brought it was suddenly to be destroyed.

He had been with the family long enough.

Michiru clicked again, the tone changing as the floors changed from marble to the tile of the kitchen, the cook looking at her strangely but again, without question, as she clicked into the wine cellar and grabbed a bottle and a glass, gripping them firmly as she went toward her room.

“Miss Kaioh?” The cook asked for a moment.

“Yes?” Michiru stopped and looked at her, her hair winding around her face like a furious wave, eyes sharp, but mouth open slightly, like a rosebud, asking please. Please ask me what’s wrong.

“Have a good night, miss.”

No, of course she wouldn’t ask, because she was afraid, because Michiru was the queen, and to become the queen you must be fearsome, and you must prey.

She clicked down the hall from tile to marble to the wood of the family bedrooms, thinking over and over how Haruka hadn’t wanted her, how she had pressed herself upon Haruka and felt her recoil, and as she she shut her bedroom door behind her, the hot shame of it all gathered in her face, and she could feel the heat of her blush, so unfamiliar to her that it burned like hot embers under her skin.

She was not used to being refused, Michiru Kaioh. Women wanted her, she played their passions and affections as she did her own violin, and each piece, from the Paganinis to the folk songs, bent under her bow. To have a woman, a gym teacher no less, refuse her...it was a strange melange of shame and anger and confusion, and she did not appreciate the cocktail.

She pulled the cork from the wine, pouring it into the glass in front of her as she sat at her desk, looking out at the cool emotionless pale of the moon.

What did you want from Haruka? The wind seemed to ask as it bent the branches of the trees in the moonlight, writing the words in perfect script against the bright paper white.

“What a ridiculous question,” she took a sip of her wine, minorly embarrassed she had responded to the wind, but unwilling to retreat, “I believe I made it quite clear.”

But nothing Michiru ever did was clear, her emotions and motivations and desires all part of the crashing and churning sea that rested in her heart, and there were times that even she could not see the bottom, could not sense whether it was deep or shallow.

Did you desire to possess her? The unkind wind continued its manuscript. Did you wish to add her to the list of women who have loved you, the siren which calls them to the rocks?

Michiru picked up her glass, poured it to the top, and walked away from the window. Sirens were beautiful, in the modern day, weren’t they? It was a beautiful fiction, spinning monsters into mermaids, but Michiru knew the truth. It was only that sirens sounded beautiful, that the images they left in your mind’s eye were lovelier than any other, lovelier even than the will to live.

But sirens were ugly, when it mattered, and perhaps it was not so incorrect to call her a siren, lovely and pleading and full of desire from far away, but too ugly up close. Perhaps she had only wanted Haruka as she had wanted all those other women, something to place as a jewel in her hoard, something to own and destroy at her whims.

All of these things might have been true, and certainly they were true of the women she had known in the past, but a more horrifying thought nagged at her, one not carried by the wind she had heard in perfect script, the one that lived inside her head, the one she foolishly tried to escape by leaving the window.

No, this wind was simple, and quiet, and simply said:

Maybe you wanted her to love you. ‘

______

“Haruka you’re allowed to say no to sex, you know that, right?” Mina looked at her with a mix of irritation and disbelief. “I feel like I’m talking to one of my girls, here.”

Mina poured the noodles into a bowl, and put them in the microwave, leaning against the countertop as she looked over at the back of the couch.

“I know.”  Haruka lay on the couch, Mouse resting on her shoulder as she petted him softly.

Mina shook her head as the microwave’s timer beeped frantically, and pulled the noodles out of the microwave. Haruka was so simple that she occasionally made it all the way back to being hard. She was straightforward and easy to read, but the way she went about things was utterly confusing, the ways she seemed to think of how to present herself, her awkward fumbling when it came to her own emotions.

“You don’t ever have to have sex you don’t want to have.” she plopped across from Haruka and slung her legs up across the oversize chair.

“But I did--” She pushed back her hair and sighed heavily, “it’s just, I wanted other stuff, I just…” she closed her eyes. “I’m bad at this. I’m stupid.”

“You’re not stupid. But like…” Mina thought carefully for a moment, twirling a noodle, “Ruka, what do you want?”

“I don’t know.” she shook her head, “I...I wanted to go on a date with her.”

Mouse headbutted her cheek, purring loudly.

Haruka looked over at Mina. “The problem is me. It’s been so long and I,” she nuzzled against Mouse, “I’m out of practice, I don’t know what to do anymore, and it was easier when I was younger, and I’d just stuff it all and do whatever and be the cool butch girl who just...did things.”

Mina slurped a noodle into her mouth. “Bud, you were never the cool butch girl who did things,” Haruka sat silent, “I’m teasing you. I know what you mean.”

“I want a relationship,” She dramatically slapped her forehead, and Mouse scowled at her, “UGH! I can’t believe I said that, I sound so pathetic.”

“You don’t have to be me, Haruka,” Mina set down her bowl and sat up, leaning toward her, “I don’t know why you think you have to be, but for a lot of people, liking someone is pretty strictly necessary to fucking them. I’m grateful we don’t have to wait til we’re fucking married anymore, but there’s nothing wrong with taking time to warm up, if you’re that kind of person, and you pretty clearly are.”

“I don’t want to be.”

Mina shook her head and shrugged. “Well.”

Haruka looked up at the ceiling, the plain white an open canvas for her thoughts. It was true, she supposed, that what she really wanted was love, and to know Michiru was invested, and to go to summer festivals and eat strawberries on a stick and sit under the flowering trees together. She wanted to snuggle up under her afghans and watch TV together, eating takeout between them. It was dumb, and every queer website she read led her to believe she should be having group bondage sex while doing a tarot reading or otherwise she was replicating heteronormative values within her life, and no matter how many times Mina told her to stop reading shit that made her feel bad for being herself, it was what she was supposed to do, wasn’t it?

“Can I ask you a question, Ru?” Mina said, interrupting Haruka’s disastrous line of thinking, peering at her as if she could read her mind.

“Sure.” Haruka glanced back over at her, giving a weak shrug.

“When has what other people wanted you to be ever helped you?” Mina leaned back in her chair, “When you tried to like dresses for you mom? When you tried to do track again for your dad? When you tried to be tough in college? When? When has it been good for you?”

Haruka didn’t say anything, just shrugged.

“If Michiru doesn’t like you for what you are, if she doesn’t want to date you the way you want it, then you’re gonna have to stop being so twitterpated and get over her.” Mina knelt down next to her and looked her in the eye “Haruka, you’re one of my favorite people on earth. But you get so caught up in the possibility of shit that you put everything into that one thing. And then it becomes a crushing blow every time it doesn’t work. Remember when you were trying to get an apartment near mine? Remember that debacle?”

Haruka looked away. “I get...into things...sometimes.”

“I know, and I know how emotional you are, and who you are is totally fine. But also, don’t hang everything on one date. You’re not stupid, you’re not wrong, you’re just you. This isn’t a crisis. You just want different things. Apparently. I guess. God forbid you two actually talk about expectations.”

Haruka scowled at her. “That’s not romantic!”

Mina stared at her. “You’re right. This is a way better option.”

Haruka held Mouse above her. “You’ll always love me, right Mousie?”

Mouse meowed in assent.

Mina stood up. “On the offchance you don’t want to spend the rest of your life with a cat, I think you should be more honest about what you want. Try going on some dates and learning how to talk to a girl. Forget Michiru, she’s this whole...thing. I’ve seen her chew girls up and spit them out, Haruka, she’s no good for you.”

Haruka toyed with Mouse’s collar. “Yeah?”

“Tell you what.” Mina smacked Haruka’s hip, and she scooted over so Mina could sit on the edge of the couch. “Let me set you up. Super low key, no pressure date, I promise. I know a girl who’s getting back into the game too, you two can just drink coffee and stare at each other like nerds.”

Haruka snorted. “That’s your answer? Go on awkward dates?”

“Training wheels!” She grinned, “Naw, it’ll be fine, I promise. And go someplace you feel comfortable, what the fuck do you know about tapas?”

“I thought it would be classy!” Haruka chuckled, “but I guess that proves your point.”

“Move over, Amazing Race is new on Hulu.” Mina nudged her, and she sat up, passing Mina a blanket.

“Thanks for coming over.” Haruka picked up the remote, passing it to Mina.

“Eh, my fridge was empty anyhow,” she smiled, “So what else was I gonna do, go to the grocery store?”

The wind carried a song, a word, a spoken poem, a call to love, a call to question, a call to know, in a foreign language no one knew, each only with their own piece of the Rosetta stone.

Across town, staring up at a mansion in the international district, where all the diplomats lived, Hotaru Tomoe held a letter in her hand, the wind whipping by her as she stared up at the lit house, in front of the mailbox reading “Serenity.”

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Can't Help Falling

by Dan H

Saturday, 22 January 2011Dan is embarrassingly into the works of Lauren Kate

Oooh! This is in the Axis of Awesome!~

This article probably makes most sense in the context of Shim's recent review of Fallen which itself probably makes most sense in the context of our TeXt Factor Halloween Special.

This article, from the outset, contains spoilers for Fallen, Torment and for that matter the TeXt Factor (I view it as something of a coming-of-age that I have now written an article which contains a spoiler warning for one of our own site features).

At the end of the event, Lauren Kate's Fallen beat out Rachel Caine's Glass Houses in what we (at the time) billed as the battle of Cam versus Daniel. There has been a vague feeling (in some circles) that the book didn't live up to its promise. Obviously I can't speak to the personal preferences of other people, but I can say that I absolutely heart heart heart Fallen with a big cartoon heart.

Summaries: Here Be Spoilers

So Fallen is about a girl named Luce, short for Lucinda, who is sent away to a reform school named Sword and Cross where she encounters a boy named Daniel to whom she develops an instant and profound attraction. This doesn't stop her also being interested in a boy called Cam who turns out to be totally evil although possibly in a cool sexy way rather than a just a shitbag way. Everybody in the entire school turns out to be a fallen angel, the cool librarian turns out to be some kind of whacked out cultist and everything kicks off in a great big angels-versus-demons battle that doesn't seem to conclude or resolve anything.

For more details on Fallen, see Shim's review and the TeXt Factor special.

Torment begins with Daniel (probably good angel eternally in love with Luce) and Cam (totally evil angel possibly in love with Luce) making an eighteen-day truce to protect Luce from the Outcasts (dastardly Neutral angels – they're the angels who sided with Lucifer, then bottled it and are now on neither side of the war in heaven) who want to kill her (or so it seems). For nebulous reasons to do with her personal protection, Luce is moved away from Sword and Cross to a new school called Shoreline. Where Sword and Cross was ramped-up-to-eleven Gothic, Shoreline is ramped-up-to-eleven Cal-ee-for-nai-aye. Everybody is bronzed and beautiful and, it turns out, Nephilim (that's half-human-half-angel for the benefit of anybody that hasn't seen any of the many, many bits of recent pop culture that included the concept). The book focuses largely on Luce adjusting to her new surroundings and dealing with being separated from Daniel having only just found him.

What's interesting about Torment is that it seems to be written with a sense of awareness which has been lacking in other areas of this subgenre. Sometimes this actually borders on self-reference – for example when the Nephilim students at Shoreline (who have spent their entire lives immersed in Angelic culture) discover who Luce is their first reaction is something along the lines of “OMG Your Story Is So Romantic!!!” There's even a bit later on where she suggests that two of her friends get “Team Daniel” and “Team Miles” teeshirts. Miles, by the way is the guy who actually is the guy who we thought Cam was in the first book – the nice safe guy who might be a better bet for the heroine than the mysterious supernatural guy. Miraculously, he actually comes across quite well. He's nice to Luce but without looking like a spineless prick, or trying to conceal the fact that he's attracted to her.

Torment isn't without its flaws. It's still not entirely clear what the whole “War In Heaven” thing has to do with anything other than providing an excuse to have angels everywhere (because wings are hot, period) and it's certainly not clear why Daniel is the angel everything hangs on – or why if it's all about Daniel people are so focused on Luce. I'm still holding out for her to actually turn out to be Satan. All in all though, Torment does well at being what it is – the second volume in a four-part supernatural romance series – and it's got enough going on that I kept reading and am eagerly awaiting the next volume.

Analysis: But Most of All It Is a Story About Love

The subgenre that we at Ferretbrain have taken to calling “Girl Books for Girls” often presents love as a vast, quasi-supernatural force over which neither party has control. Broadly speaking, people are only allowed to have two attitudes to this:

One: OMGBBQZOMG!!!THAT IS SO TRUE

Two: Grow the fuck up.

What I've found fascinating about the first two books in the Fallen saga is that it seems to be taking a more nuanced approach to the whole issue.

Luce's love for Daniel is, quite clearly, the big Twilight-esque inexplicable obsession. It's even explicitly supernatural in origin, Daniel is quite literally Luce's destiny. Unlike a lot of books in the genre, however, the Fallen series seems to be taking a step back and asking what all of that actually means.

Luce spends the vast majority of Torment dealing with the reality of everything she learns at the end of Fallen. Part of this involves realising that while (as the girls at Shoreline believe) being immortal doomed lovers seems cool, it actually involves a series of seventeen year old girls being burned to death, leaving behind devastated families to pick up the pieces. Part of it involves realising that Daniel knows that this is going to happen every single time and still makes the choice to pursue her anyway. Part of it involves realising that this is kind of a dick move. And part of it involves realising that she loves him anyway.

There's something about this I just found weirdly mature. More mature, in many ways, than the knee-jerk “don't be stupid, love doesn't work like that” response you get from a lot of people. The thing about the immortal, doomed lovers schtick is that it is really compelling, and when you think more closely about how it has to work it's kind of creepy but still really compelling. Luce is basically presented with what, for many people (including, crucially, the book's target audience) is the dream romance. It is, to quote the blurb on the back: “Forbidden, Eternal, a Love to Die For”. But the book recognises that being “Forbidden”, “Eternal” and “To Die For” does not make something uncomplicated or even right.

I don't actually think for one second that Luce is going to end up with anybody with Daniel, but I think the process by which she is going to wind up being with Daniel is going to be what makes the books worth reading. She has – as some readers have pointed out – very little actual contact with him in either Fallen or Torment, what attracts her to him is this vast, uncontrollable, unfounded passion and the central conflict of the series seems not to be whether their love can triumph over external obstacles, but whether it will be enough for Luce. There's something – for want of a better word – deconstructive about the series' attitude to love. We are never asked to question the reality or validity of Luce's feelings for Daniel, but we are asked to accept that she can have real, valid feelings for other people as well. What I find so interesting about the Fallen series is that Luce is allowed to genuinely question her feelings for Daniel without that act of questioning invalidating them.

I don't expect that she will end up with Cam or Miles or whichever hot guy she picks up in book three or four, but I do expect that when she inevitably winds up with Daniel it will be on her own terms. Perhaps I'm overinvesting in a minor element of the text, but one of the silly things that impressed me about Fallen is that Luce cuts her hair off. Her long black hair is the single most striking feature of Luce-the-romantic-heroine (it appears on the cover of the book, and it's a major component of every flashback and everything that evokes her past lives) but it's no longer past of Luce the real girl with the real life. In Torment she actually goes blonde. It might be silly to read too much into a haircut, but I think you can make a strong case that Luce's changing hairstyle goes a long way towards giving her an identity as a person which is distinct from her identity as Luce-from-Luce-and-Daniel.

The thing which I think a lot of people find creepy about the girls-and-vampires subgenre of fiction is that it is so often so self-erasing. The heroines, designed explicitly as placeholders for the audience, fade into nothingness outside the narrow confines of their relationships. Somehow Luce doesn't. It helps that Torment focuses almost entirely on what Luce does when she isn't around Daniel (or for that matter Cam), and therefore gives her space to be herself. It also helps that every time Daniel acts like a patronising dickwad she – well – calls him on it, and seems to be doing it genuinely rather than just protesting too much. To put it another way, although her blog does include the obligatory “Team Daniel or Team Cam” post I have a certain amount of faith that Lauren Kate is firmly on Team Luce.

Genre fiction is all, on some level, built around fantasies. People's responses to genre fiction often boil down to accepting those fantasies uncritically, or rejecting them unilaterally. Both of these responses can be equally unhelpful. What I find compelling about the Fallen series is that it seems to be saying both that it is okay to want the big overwhelming fairytale (or dark fairytale) kind of love, but that it's also okay to want other things, and that it's even okay to want several different things at once.

So yeah. That's kinda why I dig the series.

Addendum: Stuff I am Probably Wrong About

Of course the other reason I'm so into the series is that I'm still holding onto this failing hope that Luce is actually going to turn out to be Satan. Because that would be the most awesome twist ending to a Young Adult Novel ever in the entire history of the universe. Bar nothing.

So very briefly, the bits of for-want-of-a-better-term-evidence that Luce might in fact be Beelzebub (these make very little sense if you haven't read the books):

1.In the battle at the end of Torment, the Angels seem to believe that Luce is in danger from the Starshots, which we also see are ineffective against humans (admittedly, this might be a stake-through-the-heart issue: sure they're not instantly fatal to humans, but they're still freaking arrows).

2.Daniel is clearly as wet as a sack of kippers, but apparently there's still something that could make him side with Hell, and it's pretty much inconceivable that this doesn't have something to do with Luce.

3.Come on, her name's freaking Luce.

4.The Angels of Neutrality seem to feel they can use Luce as a bargaining chip to get back into Heaven. I just can't quite work out how Random Mortal Chick #5 is going to help you get back in the good graces of the almighty.

5.That note that Molly passes her in the first book: could it be … foreshadowing?

6.… actually that's pretty much it.

7.But P.S. It would be awesome.

So yeah. So far I'm still very much into the series, which I think manages to be at once turned-up-to-eleven-breathless romance and (arguably) a surprisingly subtle deconstruction of the assumptions of the genre.

Themes:

Books

,

Sci-fi / Fantasy

,

Young Adult / Children

,

Judging Books By Their Covers

~

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~Comments (

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Robinson L

at 15:02 on 2011-01-24

Where Sword and Cross was ramped-up-to-eleven Gothic, Shoreline is ramped-up-to-eleven Cal-ee-for-nai-aye.

That sounds … interesting.

Nephilim (that's half-human-half-angel for the benefit of anybody that hasn't seen any of the many, many bits of recent pop culture that included the concept)

Okay, what does it say about me that I give you a fairly explanation for what a dhampir is and how you get one, along with more modern variations—but I've never heard of “Nephilim,” nor was I at all aware of such creatures manifesting in recent pop culture?

… actually, that's pretty much it.

I'm glad you and Shimmin reviewed

Fallen

, because while

The TeXt Factor convinced me to read it, I know I won't get to it immediately, and for some reason an overview of the whole book provides more a sense of closure. Here's looking forward to the books themselves ...

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Dan H

at 23:22 on 2011-01-25

Okay, what does it say about me that I give you a fairly explanation for what a dhampir is and how you get one, along with more modern variations—but I've never heard of “Nephilim,” nor was I at all aware of such creatures manifesting in recent pop culture?

You might have missed it, since it went out early, but Nephilim were a feature in Hush, Hush. They've also appeared in a lot of pesudobiblical YA stuff as a bunch of apocalyptic movies.

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Wardog

at 23:52 on 2011-01-26Ooooh, and they're in the awesomely awful

Hex.

Ah Michael Fassbinder, I can't believe you are so beautiful and had to be in Fable...

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Shim

at 09:10 on 2011-01-27I just read the synopsis of that. Surely an evil plan for world domination that can be thwarted by

proper use of contraceptives

is a bit... flimsy? Unless the Buffy totally original protagonist is really really Catholic.

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Dan H

at 23:30 on 2011-01-30

I just read the synopsis of that. Surely an evil plan for world domination that can be thwarted by proper use of contraceptives is a bit... flimsy?

You could look at it that way. On the other hand, if I thought the only thing stopping evil from taking over the world was a bunch of horny teenagers remembering to practice safe sex, I'd be deeply worried.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 19:53 on 2012-03-24I just got through the first three Fallen books, which is not something I would admit in any other setting, but you're right, this stuff is distressingly compelling. I'm not especially interested in the love affairs of eternally self-absorbed kids, but there's a lot of other good, fairly original stuff here, and I'd love to see what Lauren Kate can do when she isn't writing a girly romance.

Nevertheless, I've gotten sucked into the silly story and want to see how it ends. Like you, I was holding out for Luce to turn out to be Satan, but that seems less and less likely, and I have a feeling the ending is going to disappoint me no matter what.

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Dan H

at 20:02 on 2012-03-24Yeah, the Luce-is-Satan interpretation is basically nixed by Passion in which Lucifer shows up as a character. I was a little bit unsure what to make of Passion, the world-hopping stuff was okay, but it felt that it undermined a lot of the interesting and vaguely deconstructive stuff that was in the first couple of books. I suspect I'll be disappointed by Rapture but you never know, it might surprise me.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 21:00 on 2012-03-24I'm holding out a tiny bit of hope there'll be another twist on the revelation that Lucifer/Satan is in fact a flying gargoyle. That's just a little too on-the-nose for me. But not much hope.

The most worthwhile part of Passion, to me, is the explicit revelation that the angel/demon division is *actually* completely meaningless and arbitrary. You're a demon if you didn't pick God's side fast enough, or if the meeting ended before you had a chance to pick sides at all. Of course that's what the story has been getting at all along, but it's nice to have it out there. Obviously the narrative voice has been quite clear that, for example, Roland is no more demonic than Arriane, or Daniel particularly more angelic than Cam, who's kind of a gleeful asshole but doesn't seem to be doing anyone any actual harm.

None of that really makes up for the endless time-hopping, though. The Luce-and-Daniel retrospective idea was nice in theory, but in the end it bored the crap out of me and I just wanted to get back to the story.

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Shim

at 22:05 on 2012-03-24I did in fact read both

Torment

and

Passion

, which were... honestly, I can only really say "okay" as far as I remember.

Partly this is my fault, since I'm far enough out of touch with pop culture that the Cal-ee-for-nai-aye stuff in

Torment

was recognisable rather than familiar, and I probably missed a lot of clever or interesting things that were going on there. The self-awareness was nice, though. I had my usual pernickity issue with Magical Schools but it came across as less preposterous than some others. Luce inevitably messes around with dangerous magic against everyone’s explicit advice but survives. There's at least one complete writing fail in

Torment

, where LK managed to confuse me enough with a bad description of angelic powers that I thought Miles was dead. That's a pretty big misunderstanding, to my mind. Otherwise, a reasonable read that I can’t remember too much about.

Passion

was more of a problem for me, partly because Luce is willing to risk causing all kinds of problems for her previous selves to learn more about herself, and partly because the time-hopping was a bit awkward. She visits some non-Western selves, which is a nice thing but gets me back to thinking about how the baptism business in

Fallen

didn’t make any blooming sense. She manages to pass herself off as a servant despite a complete lack of experience of the job, ignorance of appropriate social behaviour (servants being notoriously hung up on this), ignorance of current affairs, and very probably being much too tall, much too well-fed, much too finicky about hygiene and not talking proper.

Mostly though, it's because the War in Heaven stuff still fails to make any sense to me, and that's awkward when it's the main plot of the series. At some point it turns out all the angels did in fact bluff their way into Sword & Cross purely to hang around Luce and Daniel, so they do have some kind of limited future-telling ability, but don’t seem to do much of any particular use with it. The angel-demon division seems about as arbitrary as you say, and there’s the big playground team-picking scene. Then it turns out that Oh Noes! Lucifer has the tremendous awesome plan of going back in time to just after they fell and transporting them all forward in time again so he can have another go at enlisting them all or something like that anyway, which is an absolutely fantastic strategy for getting the better of his opponent, (vaguely Catholic version of) God, that famously non-omniscient non-omnipotent entity who is in no way outside time and space oh wait. There’s the weird subcultures hanging around as well, the Nephilim and the blind assassin types with magic angel-killing bows (bows? in this day and age?) and stuff.

At the same time, I don’t remember anything which would make the baptism business or supernatural loopholery make any sense, or anything that explains why Miss Sophia would sacrifice Luce (or to whom) or expect anyone at all to approve of it. I still don’t know why, if she’s not Lucifer, she has magical powers. I don’t know why forcing Luce to die repeatedly and horribly would seem like a cool way to deal with the Daniel business, especially since the war is none of her business. Part of the problem is that I still haven’t got a handle on the theological setup LK is working off and I’m not convinced it’ll be coherent if I do ever find out.

Sorry, it's months since I read them so memory is a bit hazy.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 22:31 on 2012-03-24

the Cal-ee-for-nai-aye stuff in Torment was recognisable rather than familiar, and I probably missed a lot of clever or interesting things that were going on there.

I enjoy the little details whenever I notice them. The high school teachers in California like being called by their first names with no honorifics, which few Southern teachers would tolerate. The angel-types have to go to crazy lockup reform school in Georgia, but in California it's all good, dude, and they even get treated better than everyone else because they're rich (or make everyone think they're rich, as far as I can tell), which is what really matters.

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Michal

at 04:16 on 2012-03-25

Nephilim (that's half-human-half-angel for the benefit of anybody that hasn't seen any of the many, many bits of recent pop culture that included the concept).

Or, y'know, possibly read the bit of the book of Genesis that mentioned them. I'm actually kind of surprised that Nephilim have become a Thing now, however, since I only

ever

associated them with that bit from the Bible, and never really saw the word used anyplace else.

Over a year late, I know...

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Wardog

at 09:23 on 2012-03-26Well, I don't think many of us are in the habit of casually dipping into The Bible for lulz - also I thought most of the Nephilim related stuff was in the Apocrypha?

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Arthur B

at 09:32 on 2012-03-26Yeah, my understanding is that the Nephilim are, like, minor background characters in the Bible but people fleshed them out a lot in their fanfic (Apocrypha, Zecharia Sitchin's nonsense, etc.).

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Wardog

at 09:44 on 2012-03-26Are you saying the Apocrypha are basically Bible fanfic? :D

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Arthur B

at 09:55 on 2012-03-26Well, by definition they aren't canon. ;)

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Shim

at 10:49 on 2012-03-26Must admit I'd never noticed the Nephilim before, but it's a fairly throwaway bit.

The Apocrypha are more like deleted scenes in the Protestant Director's Cut. As far as Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians are concerned they aren't any different from other bits of the Bible (although I believe the exact canon varies a bit).

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Arthur B

at 11:38 on 2012-03-26I think there's apocrypha and apocrypha. Like there's stuff which only stuffy Protestants think is apocrypha but most other denominations are cool with, then there's stuff which a few Coptic off-shoots assert is canon but the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and other Coptic factions think is too nutty (I think the Book of Enoch is in this category), and then there's totally wild stuff which isn't taken as canon by any significant denomination, either due to them being lost for ages (Gospel of Thomas) or due to the doctrinal councils proclaiming them to be completely dicked in the nob (the gnostic and Sethian stuff, more or less all the apocalypses aside from John's).

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Robinson L

at 20:16 on 2012-03-31I finished

Passion

the other week (man, I love audiobooks). Of the three, I think I liked

Torment

best, though I was ambivalent about the climax. The mythology in

Fallen

felt much too underdeveloped to me, and I felt like

Torment

went a long way towards correcting that.

Fallen

also gave me the impression that the battle between heaven and hell in these books is a straight-forward good vs. evil story.

Torment

, on the other hand, gave us two teachers, one aligned with heaven and the other aligned with hell, who despite their profound ideological differences are in a caring and loving relationship, which I find simply adorable. Furthermore, it hinted that both sides might actually have legitimate grievances with the other, rather than the angels aligned with hell just being evil. (On which note, the demon characters in

Passion

offering help and encouragement really tickled me as well.)

I think

Torment

was my favorite in terms of building non-romantic friendships. There was some good friendship stuff in

Fallen

, but I think Kate did much, much better with Shelby and Miles in

Torment

. Among other things, I felt it was neat how she had Shelby and Luce connecting over mutual frustrations regarding Daniel, thus subverting the romance cliché of two women fighting over a man—even though she did then go ahead and say “See? This is me subverting this romance cliché right here.”

And I really liked that they took the trouble to investigate the still-living relatives of Luce's past incarnations—it's the sort of logical extension of a premise which most authors don't really delve into.

I was mostly okay with the time-hopping structure of

Passion

, but it didn't particularly enthrall me. I liked that Kate eventually acknowledged that not all Luce's incarnations throughout time have been Caucasian, and that she managed to find a somewhat decent escape clause to the “Luce's features are always the same” problem.

On the other hand, I was disappointed we got so little of Luce's friends and the other fallen angels. I was also disappointed that it appears Lucifer is a separate character than Luce, and seems to be pure evil, which somewhat undermines the complexity I thought was in the second book. I think book four may still save the series' morality, but I'm very concerned.

There were also two points about

Torment

which really, really disturbed me. First, the character of Lilith and the information that

every single descendant of hers who carries her name

inevitably turns evil at some point. Free will? Screw that, predestined to be evil, baby.

The second was that time in the Mayan village when Daniel

killed off the entire village

in order to save Luce's contemporary incarnation. Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

Overall, I'd concur with Shim's assessment of

Torment

and

Passion

as “okay” (it's also how I felt about

Fallen

). I fully expect

Rapture

to be about the same.

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Ibmiller

at 16:15 on 2012-10-09Interesting, I just finished Rapture, having given Passion and Fallen In Love a miss. And it was...pretty much of a piece with the other books. I keep finding myself skipping through the bits where Luce goes Bella Swan gazing at Edward - actually, I skipped most of the parts with Daniel - and found the worldbuilding...interesting. I think I'm just not sure why these books tend to have such wet protagonists and such interesting secondary characters.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 15:34 on 2012-10-10

I keep finding myself skipping through the bits where Luce goes Bella Swan gazing at Edward - actually, I skipped most of the parts with Daniel

Same here. That shit was cute for about half a book. I think I skimmed through most of the last volume purely for the sake of finishing the thing.

Overall, the whole experience was pretty unsatisfying. I think it might broaden the horizons of the occasional twelve-year-old Twilight fan.

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Shim

at 16:58 on 2012-10-10I feel so vindicated right now.

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Ibmiller

at 21:19 on 2012-10-10Somewhat hilariously, I actually enjoy Twilight (while mostly skipping the parts where Bella does the Luce gazing at Daniel thing). So...take my dislike as you will? But I do think it has a bit of an edge over the Fallen books...if only the edge one of those little foil strips on plastic scissors has over a completely plastic pair of scissors. :)

I'm glad you feel vindicated, Shim. That's what I live for, after all. :)

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Shim

at 21:42 on 2012-10-10

I'm glad you feel vindicated, Shim. That's what I live for, after all. :)

Ibmiller,

Vindicator

.

At some point I might borrow

Rapture

off Dan or someone for completeness' sake, but then again I'm not really invested in the story any more. Some interesting ideas, just didn't really pan out for me or go in a direction that worked for me. Tragically, I could say the same for

The Host

but I dunno if that's a fair comparison.

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Ibmiller

at 21:48 on 2012-10-10Welp...I liked The Host as well...so if I liked that, and disliked Rapture...you probably will really hate Rapture? I dunno.

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