#i feel like stelena and delena are two different kinds of incredible loves

[ronandreams]

rules: make a poll of your favorite ships and see which your followers like the most

tagged by @radiobehead and @sowinchester, thank you cuties! 💖

tagging (if u want to): @henrywinteris , @joequinns , @spelmansabrina , @munsonseds , @hellshee , @vampirewillows , @nordstars , @pleasepleaseeplease, @bruceewayne, @halfstayed, @swkywalker, @frolencewelch, @elenas, @waxladrian, @stevebcks, @jeaanmoreau.

[firelxdykatara]

Reader anon here with a thought!

Do you like love triangles? I personally don't, there is something about them that is incredibly frustrating lol. Same thing for harems, though there are some that do it tastefully 😌 so I can't be too upset by them.

It honestly depends on the love triangle and the way the author writes all three relationships (and, for any genuine love triangle, there should be three relationships--they don't all need to be romantic, but there needs to be an existing and strong relationship between all three points on the triangle, otherwise I'm almost certain not to be at all invested), how they are presented, and what the narrative purpose of the love triangle is.

Ironically, one of the best examples of a love triangle done well (at least... to a certain point in the story, which I'll explain in a bit) happened in a television show that is fairly notorious for turning to utter shit in the latter four seasons and alienating pretty much the entire fanbase, to the point where most of us dipped well before the end and everyone celebrated news of the show's cancellation.

I'm talking about The Vampire Diaries.

(under a cut because i went on a LOOOONG ramble about tvd and why that love triangle worked initially and then why it failed, and then i talked a bit about another love triangle that was pretty weak and failed almost from the outset in OUAT but was ultimately axed in favor of the stronger relationship and character being given focus, and what all of this means for how i feel about love triangles in general)

While this is still very much a case where I only shipped one side of the triangle, hated the other, and couldn't wait for it to be resolved so that I wouldn't have to deal with the side I disliked any longer (the writing was on the wall as far back as season 1, no matter how in denial a certain portion of the fandom remained right up until the series finale) the development of the triangle itself and how it affected all three characters and their relationships with one another was done very well for most of the first four seasons. Damon and Stefan were brothers, with a bloody and complicated history and relationship, and they both fell in love with this human girl--Stefan almost instantly, because she looked just like Katherine and he found himself... (and here I'm going to be as fair as I possibly can to him, but if you want my full anti stelena rant I have many of them prepped and ready to go) following her, at first to make sure she wasn't Katherine, and then inserting himself into her life to protect her. Damon, on the other hand, took much longer, because he was still in love with (and trying to rescue) Katherine, and so when he did fall in love with Elena, it was because of who she was, not because of some idealized 'Not Katherine' pedestal he placed her on the instant he met her.

(I swear, I swear I'm trying to be fair to Stefan, it's just very hard.)

The thing is, Elena was in love with Stefan almost from the jump. (And one of the reasons I never really shipped stelena is because that kind of insta-love with very little conflict that isn't manufactured by the plot just isn't compelling for me, and I fully jumped ship about halfway through s1 when Damon and Elena took a road trip together. It's a long story, but that remains one of my favorite episodes in the entire show and it marks the beginning of their actual journey together.) Stefan showed up at a time when she desperately needed someone, and to his credit he did help her through her early depressive spiral--in large part because Elena's recent trauma (survivor's guilt due to her parents dying in a car crash from which she was the only survivor) meant that finding out Stefan was immortal and could not die and would not leave her resulted in her getting fiercely attached.

He was safe, he was stable, she could rely on him. But she could not grow with him, because for him, she was essentially a morality pet/the anchor to his humanity, and that meant that he could not accept when she began to grow out of her need for him. The fact that this coincided with her becoming a vampire only made things worse--because she settled into being a vampire much more easily with far less strife than he'd ever managed, and an Elena who enjoyed being a vampire in ways Stefan simply couldn't could no longer function as the idealized reminder of humanity he was desperate to cling to.

Damon, on the other hand, was the one who fell in love with Elena--not Not Katherine. He never put her on a pedestal, he never asked more of her than she could give him--when he realized how deep his feelings for her ran, he made her forget his confession because he knew he did not deserve her and he didn't want her burdened with his feelings when she was still in love with his brother and was always going to be. Elena's growing feelings for Damon coincided with her growth from a depressed and suicidal teenage girl into a young woman who began to realize that it was ok to want things for herself--to be a little selfish, to take what she wanted, to admit what she wanted. And, again, the fact that this coincided with her transformation into a vampire (although her growth within her relationship with Damon began well before that), meant that Damon's reaction to Elena-as-a-vampire was thrown into sharp relief against Stefan's--because he accepted her where his brother couldn't.

Ultimately, this led to Elena fully outgrowing her feelings for Stefan, and accepting, nurturing, and reveling in her feelings for Damon. The triangle was resolved, all three characters had growth separately and in their different relationships, and they could then move on from there along their different paths. Stefan could have had some truly excellent character growth involving moving on and finally living for himself rather than trying so hard to be this perfect brooding tortured vampire because he was the Good Brother, since there was no longer any need for that Good Brother/Bad Brother dichotomy. They'd both grown past it, as characters individually and as brothers together.

Unfortunately, where TVD ultimately failed (and this coincided with the way the show utterly lost the plot in terms of storylines, character arcs and cohesiveness and became an unsalvageable mess) is in refusing to let the love triangle die.

What should have happened is that once the love triangle was resolved--Elena growing as a character and moving on from her immature first love and fully embracing her feelings, as an adult, for her much more adult relationship with Damon--they abandoned the love triangle premise and let all three characters continue to grow outside of it. Damon and Elena should have been allowed to grow together and explore their relationship, Stefan to figure out where he still fit in their lives--as Damon’s brother, and one of Elena’s closest friends who she still loved dearly even though she was no longer in love with him--and then explore relationships of his own outside their family unit as he finally began to fully move on and grow out of his own overly idealized feelings for Elena.

Instead, what wound up happening is that the stelena side of the love triangle kept being teased--probably to keep the avid stelena shipping contingent invested in the story, hoping for ‘another brother swap’ as was lampshaded in one of Nina’s final episodes before she left the show (and, indeed, many of them remained utterly convinced that stelena would be endgame, right up until the series finale)--and rather than growing together, delena fans were constantly hit over the head with how ‘toxic’ Damon and Elena were for each other (even though this ran contrary to everything we’d seen in the show to that point, including having Damon regress repeatedly for, presumably, no reason other than to never let fans forget he was the Bad Brother and always would be, and Elena just couldn’t help but love him anyway), and all three characters and their relationships wound up suffering horribly for it.

That is an example of a love triangle that had a very promising foundation and development, right up through what should have been a resolution, and the reason it is generally looked on so unfavorably in fandom circles is because the show refused to move on from the triangle organically when the story needed it to, because it had already served its purpose.

For an example of a love triangle that, in my mind, simply didn’t work from the very beginning, I’d say my go-to example is from Once Upon a Time--the short-lived love triangle between Emma, Killian, and Neal. I think the first stumbling block there was that there weren’t really three relationships that mattered. Technically, Killian did have a connection to Neal--because they’d met in Neverland, prior to Neal remaining in the Land Without magic--but it functioned more as a backdrop to explain why Killian knew him when they got to Neverland again in the story, and why Neal didn’t trust him. It wasn’t actually developed as anything outside of that brief flashback, and they didn’t have any connection in the present outside of one episode where they essentially fought over Emma and she (rightly) got angry at them for it. There was no real exploration of who they were to each other outside of the fact that both of them had feelings for Emma, so it really was just one woman torn between her feelings for two different men, and with no real stakes attached to her choice.

The other problem with this particular triangle is that one side of it was... conspicuously weak. While Emma’d had a full season and a half worth of interactions and development with Killian--where they went from enemies, to grudging allies, to Killian openly acknowledging that he hadn’t ever believed he would be able to love again until he met Emma--she had... very little to support her potential relationship with Neal outside of their history. History which consisted of then-young-adult Neal knocking up underage Emma (she was 17 at the oldest because she was still in Juvie when Henry was born, and he was already ten years old the day she turned 28; so she was either 16 or very newly 17 when she got pregnant) and ensuring that she got sent to prison for his own crime, at which point he didn’t see her again until she was nearly 30. When he did see her again, he treated her incredibly poorly, up to and including getting angry at her about the fact that she didn’t tell him that Henry was his son--even though he had no right to that information, because Emma was in prison because of him at the time she found out, and she had no clue that he was in any way connected to the Fairy Tale world until she was helping Mr. Gold track down his son and it turned out to be Neal.

A big point is made, throughout the early seasons especially, about Emma’s walls and how much difficulty she has trusting people--and a great deal of that stemmed from Neal’s betrayal. This could have been the foundation for a story of healing and growth and two people coming back together--however, with the way Neal treats Emma in the present and how little closure she actually gets for what he did to her in the past, it comes across more as ‘well, she never did get over her feelings for him, so maybe he still has a shot even though she has no real reason to want to be with him now’.

Killian, on the other hand, never doubted Emma’s abilities and always had the utmost trust in and respect for her (after they became allies), and it was obvious that this is something Emma experienced very little of in her life. It’s notable that the first episode where they really interacted is the one in which Emma’s history with Neal is revealed, and it very deliberately paralleled and contrasted with her interactions with Killian. This already presented him with a leg up on the love triangle once Neal did show up, because Neal was the reason for a lot of the walls Emma had built around her heart, and it wasn’t until meeting Killian that she finally began to let some of them down.

I think that the show recognized this, and it pulled something that is actually a very frustrating pet peeve of mine--rather than write out the story that makes sense and have the main point of the love triangle make a choice and stick to it, the third point of the triad was simply written out. In this case, Neal essentially killed himself via his own stupidity, allowing Emma to angst about losing him without actually having to tell him she wasn’t in love with him and wasn’t going to choose him. (Veronica Mars pulled something very similar with the Logan/Veronica/Duncian triangle in season 2--rather than admit within the narrative that her relationship with Duncan was built on flimsy feelings of infatuation bc of their history, and a ‘stability’ that didn’t really work for who Veronica was at her core, he simply got written out of the story, running away for Plot Reasons and never forcing Veronica to confront the fact that she wasn’t actually in love with him and hadn’t been for quite some time.)

I think that in OUaT, the love triangle could have worked if a relationship between Killian and Neal was not only established in the past but developed in the present--Killian was in love with Neal’s mother centuries earlier, and something I’m actually really upset we never got is the two of them talking about Milah and maybe Neal getting some closure for his mother’s abandonment and someone apologizing to him for what they put Baelfire through as a child--giving stakes to Emma’s choice beyond ‘one of them will be all uwu sad that he wasn’t picked’. It also would have worked much better if we were given any reason for Emma to still have feelings for Neal in the present beyond the history they shared, which caused Emma nothing but pain for the last decade and change. If Neal had treated her more fairly--if he’d treated her like someone he actually cared about and even still loved, rather than blaming her for things that were his own fault and undermining her belief in her own abilities, among other things--then their relationship might have been strong enough to stand on its own opposite Emma’s relationship with Killian. I don’t think it ever would’ve been a relationship that appealed to me, personally, but then I could have at least enjoyed watching the three of them grow together and seeing all of their relationships grow and change.

So, ultimately, TL;DR: I do like love triangles, conceptually, but there are a few requirements they must meet for me to feel anything other than irritated at the inclusion. One: there must be at least three equally important relationships between the three characters. If it’s just one character torn between her (or his, but it’s usually a woman) feelings for two unrelated people, that can be compelling for a short time but ultimately I’m going to be left feeling frustrated by her refusal to just make a damn choice and put me out of my misery. Two: there should be some sort of development in each relationship which makes the presence of the triangle narratively significant. Why is it important for one character to have conflicting romantic feelings for these two other people at the same time? What purpose does it serve either their character arcs or the story as a whole? While I am both a Bangel and a Spuffy shipper, I’ve never considered Angel/Buffy/Spike to be a love triangle--they are very different relationships that she had at very different points in her life, and while her feelings for Angel never really went away (and do cause some angst for Spike near the end of btvs) they are never really competing for her affections in any meaningful sense. If that competition does exist, there needs to be a compelling reason why. And, as a further addendum to this point, I need to at least understand why the main point of the triangle is invested in each relationship, even if I don’t ship it and actively dislike or even outright hate one side of the triangle. (I loathe stelena, but I’ve always understood why Elena was in love with him in the beginning of the show, for example. And before s5/s6, I was really pleased with how the show handled her feelings for him and finally allowed her to grow and move on from them.)

And finally, three: the triangle needs to be resolved at some point--and, when it is, it needs to stay that way. Where TVD ultimately lost me (aside from the ridiculous plot contrivances and rampant character assassination) was the refusal to let the love triangle die a natural death when it is what the story called for, and all three of their characters, their relationships, and the show as a whole suffered massively for it. So, when the primary point of the triangle makes a choice--particularly if she had made one choice in the beginning of the story, but it was clear that she was ultimately moving towards choosing the other side as she grew and her feelings and relationships grew and changed with her--let that be the end of it. Move on to exploring what that choice means for the main pair and the party not chosen, sure--maybe explore their feelings about not being chosen and how that affects their relationships with both of the others afterwards--but don’t constantly tease the possibility of the ‘losing side’ getting back together just to keep shippers invested. It’s only going to hurt your show and make everyone look callous and stupid.

Alternately, a final possibility: make it an ot3 instead. But again, if the other three conditions aren’t met (particularly number two, and its addendum; if I don’t understand why the main point of the triangle is in love with both other points, an ot3 is unlikely to resolve that issue and I’m only going to wind up resenting it), then this won’t work, because it’s just going to wind up a lopsided and stilted mess of a relationship that leaves me wishing the offending point of the triangle had been killed off just so I wouldn’t have to keep hearing about them.

[alphinias]

Okay so I know it’s 2021 and all but your comparison with Stydia was SO good that I have to ask something. I saw how at some point you used Stydia as an example of romances that are shown, not told. I totally agree with you on that, but could you maybe go more into depth and explain how? I always have a hard time putting it into words, but it’s actually one of my favorite things about them.

Anon, it’s never a bad time to talk about Stydia! They were the ship that brought me into fandom, made me make a fandom ig and all. I’ll always love them.

I think what I mean is just that it’s a romance I believe. This is the combination of a lot of things: subtlies in the writing, directing, acting choice, and natural chemistry. A lot of ships are flops right out of the gate because there isn’t a lick of chemistry to be found; in this case it’s always better to cut your losses and move on (seriously. Do people not do chemistry reads for casting of major couples? Do they just suck at doing them?).

With Stydia an example of a scene done really, really well was their first kiss. If you don’t pick up on nuance in a scene (which... an alarming amount of people don’t. There is a trend in corners of fandom where if two characters aren’t having sex on screen they must be platonic, but that’s another tangent I’m not going off on) or if you have two actors who do it differently, you might come away thinking “Lydia stopped Stiles’s panic attack by kissing him. It was just to stop his panic attack, and they moved on.” (You’d think this is a joke but... I have heard this exact argument... ANYWAY). Watching the scene, though, you see the wonder in their eyes. The awe on both their faces, how Lydia felt something she totally didn’t expect to feel. The way they played off each other was just incredible and we knew they felt a LOT A LOT about what had just happened just based on acting and filming choices alone.

We saw Stydia go through shared trauma together, we saw them risk their lives for each other time and time again. We saw them admire each other’s intelligence. Stiles shielding Lydia from harm with his whole body, not once but twice. When the “I love you came” it felt so, so earned.

In contrast, I think a lot of main season one ships tend to be kind of shoved in your face. They say they’re madly in love and you just go “wait but why though?” I don’t want to be asking why they even like each other. Usually these are Insta love, but I have seen some more fast burning ships pulled off... they just have to have 10/10 actor chemistry (Jarah and scallison are believable. Even Stelena, and I’m a Delena shipper. Nimue and arthur from cursed are... not. This is my favorite example I can think of, but I know a lot of you haven’t seen it). And ships like Stalia and becho being put in a committed relationship off screen when they have a competitor that’s built up on screen and is superior in every way is never going to work, either. Pokie is another ship without a shred of romantic chemistry, too.

[livlepretre]

Do you have a list of your tvd ships anywhere? (I LOVE your klaulena and fte's tylena and stebekah \o/)

OH NO I thought I had responded to this already!!! This is what I get for multi-tasking TOO! MUCH! 

I don’t have a list, but that sounds like a brilliant idea, so how about I make one right here right now? 

Stelena and Delena – I put these together because my feelings on them are so interwoven– I’m unashamedly all about this love triangle– way back when season 1 was airing, I was a huge delena shipper, but then at some point in season 2 I realized that I was ALSO really invested in stelena… and the thing is, even though I really wanted delena to happen… I didn’t want to lose stelena. I was always a little disappointed that the show dropped stelena so hard once delena happened. Like, my feeling on it is I like these ships best when they are in conflict with each other. Not sure I really ship this as an ot3, although I’ve read some truly phenomenal fic for that and there is a lot about Stefan and Damon’s relationship to be parsed out by the potential for them all 3 to find some balance with each other, but I definitely definitely am here for these 2 ships in a really big way. Like, FE wasn’t supposed to be a stelena fic at all, and I only realized once I really got into writing it that it just was. Elena’s love for these two is just so incredibly intrinsic to who she is. 

Klena/Klaulena – (why didn’t we ever settle on a ship name???) If you’re reading this, you probably already know this is my OTP. Maybe my OTP of OTPs, since it’s continued to interest and inspire my writing for like 8 years now. Just. How to even put all of this in a short paragraph. There’s something really fascinating to me about how they both play into each other’s psyches as these larger than life forces– Klaus for Elena is like this descending doom, this inevitability, this force of nature she can’t stop, or even run from, she just has to stand and face it, and the pressure that puts on her is really how she learns who she really is, and what she is really willing to do. I think Elena found out so much of who she is when her soul is scraped down to the very bottom from Klaus’s bearing down on her. She learned she was a force of nature herself. And for Klaus, Elena is this idea he’s been fixating on for a millennium. Because don’t tell me he wasn’t still fixated on her even after he thought there would be no more Petrovas. Because he totally was. And I think she excites but also frightens him– I mean, she’s got the face of his dead beloved, and there’s got to be something faintly unnatural and therefore unnerving about her. But also, there are great themes about fate– that they had this written in the stars kind of destiny, that was dark and terrifying and brutal, that they fulfilled together (I’ve always felt like there would be this subconscious part of Elena that would have yearned to fulfill her part, even though it was totally messed up and she died doing it)– and there is fantastic imagery– fire, water, how much better does it get? – and their chemistry is INSANE. Like, I think I jumped on board this ship a month before Joseph Morgan even stepped on camera, but by the end of the season I’d tossed out everything else I was doing and that was that. UGH and their power dynamics? Wild. You don’t get quality content like this every day, people! I could write a thesis about this ship. 

Rebekah/Stefan – the ship I wish had sailed much more prominently than it ever did. I was really really really into this, and fascinated by the idea that Stefan could have his memories be restored and be in love with someone else, for real, and I was super interested in the drama and just emotional turmoil that would have stirred up. I was always disappointed by the show kind of brushing stebekah under the rug– I really felt like this is the great love story we never got. 

Rebekah/Elena – the ship with all! the! potential! don’t even get me started. I really really really enjoy how they have both the capacity to be incredibly sympathetic to each other, and actually seem to really like each other and get along well… except that ELENA is the one who can’t help but backstab (literally) and Rebekah, who always lashes out in the worst possible way, responds by like… trying to light Elena on fire. It just has always intrigued me that Elena, the human, is the one who behaves more monstrously, when you would expect it to be Rebekah. I just am really super interested in their dynamic, which is both kind of sad and also really hot, and wish (again!) that we’d gotten something here. I have a few Becklena fics that I pray will someday see the light of day. 

Elejah – how could I forget this gem? my original doppelganger x original ship. I think I fell in love with this ship around the time we got that great deal getting brokered in Elena’s bedroom. DEFINITELY by the time she daggered him in The Dinner Party. There was always a sense of menace and top tier creep just simmering below the surface, that appealed to my horror-romance loving heart. 

Katherine/Elena – this one is kind of weird because I don’t quite ship it romantically– more like, I think there is a TON of interesting stuff to unpack about both of the doppelgangers that can be gleaned from shipping them, and a lot of imagery with mirrors and reflections and things getting warped as fuck that I really really really adore. It’s probably feels too narcissistic to me to ship them romantically, since I really think they are the same girl nature-wise with very different upbringings resulting in their apparent personality differences… but like, I do still ship them as an idea, and of course, sexually, with each other. Idk this is almost more like a character study/idea ship than an “I want them to be in love” ship. 

Marcel/Elena – oops I might have invented this but what’s done is done

Tyler/Elena – this was always supposed to be part of FE, but I think I actually convinced myself of this ship while writing FE, like, the more I thought about it the more sure of it I was. Tyler’s always been one of my absolute favorites– swear to God he sometimes feels like my viewer insert because he says the stuff I’m thinking ALL the time– and I have this headcanon that he’s super misunderstood, but someone like Elena, who’s known him her whole life, knows the real Tyler, and sees past all of that– and likewise, Tyler can see through Elena’s smoke mirrors, which are AMPLE. There’s just so much potential for tenderness and sincerity and he saved her at the end of season 3 because of course he did, of course Tyler would jump in like that for her, she’s Elena Gilbert, he’s known her his whole life. 

Almost all of these are Elena-centric, which… is just sort of how I operate. 

I do low-key ship these though: 

Team Forwood– ah, the good old days. I really felt like this ship got shunted for Caroline’s other big ship, but c’est la vie. 

Jeremy/Tyler – two misunderstood boys angsting over line art also the chemistry

Katherine/Damon/Stefan – umm Memory Lane is my favorite episode it is what it is 

Rebekah/Klaus and Klaus/Stefan and Klaus/Rebekah/Stefan – I don’t even headcanon this I’ll straight out tell you that all of these things are canon – have you seen the promo image for season 3? Klaus is clearly the interloper in the established love triangle, whispering in Stefan’s ear/seducing him – I don’t really think these ship configurations can be untangled from each other though, at least not in canon  

[whitewolfofwinterfell]

Jonsa

Grab a drink and some snacks and make yourself comfy, because this is gonna be a long ride.

My opinions on Jon and Sansa as a pairing are very complex. In the time that I’ve shipped them I’ve gone through these different phases where at some points I’m hardcore for them and other times I’m not really that fussed about them. Currently, I’m somewhere in between. Before I get started, you can read what I’ve previously said about Jonsa here (just scroll to the bottom, they’re the last ship I talk about).

The thing that drew me to Jonsa as a ship is the chemistry. To me, when Kit and Sophie are on-screen together I don’t feel like I’m watching siblings (even when the dialogue and circumstances portray that), I feel like I’m watching lovers. The eye contact, the tension, the tenderness; it’s all there. Every single scene they share feels like it has an undercurrent of sexual and/or romantic tension. It was that tension that led me to stumble across the Jonsa fandom and I was immediately like, “hey, so, I’m not the only one!”. Because you know when you’re watching something and you sense that chemistry between two characters that you know probably shouldn’t be there and you think you’re going crazy? Well, that was like me with Jon and Sansa.

There are so many aspects of the ship I enjoy and their story is beautiful to me in lots of ways. The fact that they grew up estranged, then parted ways, endured awful tragedies and finally found each other and began to heal as a result of that is beautiful to me. Jon and Sansa both reserved themselves to the fact that they would never see or be with their family again, and the emotion in their reunion scene encapsulates that immense surprise and relief that they feel at having found each other. I love that Jon was amidst a deep dark depression following his resurrection and was ready to give up on everything until Sansa walked back into his life and gave him a purpose; a reason to fight. Her strength and determination that they needed to reclaim Winterfell impassioned him to join her and fight for their home, for what what rightfully belonged to them and their family. I love that despite the fact that they were each others least favourite sibling growing up they were able to have a second chance and forged an incredibly unique and special bond as unique as the bond they had with any of their other siblings.

Psychologically I find Jonsa fascinating, because I think the possibility of Jon and Sansa developing romantic feelings for each other speaks to the experiences and traumas they’ve had. They both endured so many horrors and regardless of the coldness between them when they were children, for them the Starks and Winterfell have been and always will be their safety and strength. So in each other they found that literal embodiment of home and family, of safety. For Sansa, Jon is the only man she can truly trust after being used and abused by a string of men. For Jon, Sansa is his purpose; someone he needs to protect and that’s important because Jon as a person is built to protect others, that’s what drives him at all times and without that he’s lost. There’s a reason there’s so much emphasis on Jon’s instinct and desire to keep Sansa safe (besides the fact that he loves her and wants to protect the future of House Stark), and it’s because her safety has become one of the two sole purposes of his life (the other being to end the Night King). It’s funny because whenever I see criticisms of Jonsa as a ship it’s mostly about how gross or wrong it is because they grew up as siblings and are blood related, but that connection, in my opinion, is specifically a part of why they make sense as a pairing. It’s complicated for me to explain, but I’m going to give it a try. But the way I see it is that they grew up distant enough that they didn’t develop a full brother-sister bond so there isn’t that whole “ew he/she is my brother/sister” vibe between them. However, the familiarity they have and connection to Winterfell and the Starks draws them to each other. They longed so much for home and for family that it makes sense that when they found each other their feelings for each other would become conflicted, particularly when there’s that lack of brother-sister bond from childhood.

However, despite how much I love Jonsa, I’ve realised that I like the possibilities and tropes associated with the ship more than the actual ship itself. I guess you could say that I’ve been conditioned by fanfiction and meta to perceive Jon and Sansa’s relationship in a certain way, but over time (especially recently) I’ve come to realise that in canon they’re not necessarily written that way. For example, on the show they’re written as being quite untrusting of each other and resistant to work together. Sansa calls upon the Knights of the Vale without telling Jon about her plans, Sansa constantly questions Jon’s decisions, Jon rarely listens to Sansa’s ideas and has to be told to listen to her because she might actually have valuable advice and insights, he barely writes to her when he’s away south in season 7, he bends the knee to Daenerys without consulting her first and even in the season 8 premiere, there’s still that kind of vibe between them where Sansa doubts Jon and he’s fighting for her to trust him completely. There is a lot of conflict between them and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, because all the best ships have conflict, but I think that until recently I failed to see that this conflict existed between them and projected my own perception of them (shaped by fanfiction, fanvids, meta etc.) onto their canon relationship.

Following on from that, based on 8x01 I’ve also realised that I have some issues with the way Jon and Sansa are being written. Their scene in that episode and Sansa’s behaviour generally throughout the episode is an exact repetition of what’s been going on between them since season 6. They seem to be stuck in the same cycle - Sansa picks at Jon and questions his decisions, Jon gets frustrated that she doesn’t trust him and she then confirms that she does trust him, despite all of her words and actions being the contrary. At this point, it’s just bad story-telling because it’s been established repeatedly that Sansa does trust Jon and vice versa (Jon left Winterfell in her hands, the ultimate symbol of trust), so why are they still writing them this way? If Sansa has faith in Jon and she knows it and he knows it, why is she questioning his decision to bend the knee? At this point in their relationship, Jon and Sansa should be united. They definitely needed to have a conversation about why Jon bent the knee, with Jon apologising for doing so, but immediately after that all of this tension between them should be put to bed because it’s being unnecessarily dragged on when it no longer makes any sense. However, I’m trying not to be too judgemental about their scenes in this episode, since it’s only the first episode out of 6. There’s still plenty more to come from them and it could go in a much better direction from here onwards.

Generally, I hold a lot back when it comes to shipping Jon and Sansa, because I don’t want to get caught up in the Jonsa-Jonerys ship war (I’m still too exhausted from the Stelena-Delena ship war that took up 8+ years of my life lmao), but mostly because unlike most other Jonsa shippers, I don’t have much faith that they’ll actually be endgame. I’ve over-invested in so many ships in the past and I don’t want to do that again. I always try to be realistic with my ships, regardless of how much I love them, and in my opinion, the chances of Jon and Sansa being endgame are very slim. It’s clear that D&D are invested in Jon and Daenerys, and that that’s the main love story of their show. They condensed the development of their love story into one season so that they could make it a central plot for season 8, so the chances that they’re going to completely scrap that relationship or end it abruptly and go for a Jonsa endgame doesn’t seem feasible to me. The chances of Jon and Sansa marrying for a political alliance is more likely, but still not very, because that would require Jon not only surviving the war (which, I don’t think he will) but also fully embracing his parentage and proclaiming himself King of the Seven Kingdoms. Also, if you go to other sites and read fan theories or opinions, barely anyone thinks a Jon and Sansa endgame is feasible. So I suppose you could say I’m being cautious not to become over-invested in a Jonsa endgame only to be disappointed. The ending is going to be emotional enough without the added blow of being disappointed that my ship isn’t endgame.

Having said this, you don’t choose your ships, they choose you and whether I like it or not I am a Jonsa shipper. It’s my shipper heart that wants to believe they’ll be endgame and to trust in all of the signs I’ve seen that indicate they could be. I mean can it really be a coincidence that Jon and Sansa fulfil so many romantic tropes or that so many of their scenes share characteristics with romantic ships from the show? (x) (x) (x) (x). Sometimes I think that fans put more thought into analysing the show than the people that create it do (which I definitely think is true), but nonetheless great consideration is given to every single scene that makes the final cut of an episode. We know that GOT suffers from great time constraints since they have so many characters and plots to fit in and do justice, yet Jon and Sansa consistently get scenes. Familial relationships have been important throughout the show, but from my recollection no familial/sibling relationship has had the kind of emphasis Jon and Sansa have and certainly not scenes framed in the same way that theirs are (with the romantic undercurrents). And what’s the significance of showing us not one but two scenes where Jon physically threatens people because he’s so protective of Sansa? Why is it important to show us that? If Jon is really just Sansa’s big brother (cousin), isn’t it implicit that he’s going to be protective of her? We don’t need to be shown that unless it serves some other purpose. And why is so much of their relationship saturated with this ongoing tension? Starkbowl didn’t happen in season 7 (at least not between Jon and Sansa) and I doubt it’ll happen in season 8, since there isn’t enough time to fit it in, so the only real purpose that kind of tension serves is because there’s underlying sexual tension. There are so many what ifs about the ship, so many signs that indicate that we Jonsa’s aren’t just imagining their romantic chemistry, but I’ve been very wrong about this stuff in the past, so like I say, I’m proceeding with caution.

To sum up, because I could talk about this all day, my opinion on Jon and Sansa is that I love them individually and together. Their chemistry is fantastic, I love their relationship platonically and see a lot of potential with them romantically. I adore reading and watching Jonsa content and writing Jonsa fanfiction (they’re my favourite couple to write for out of all my ships). They are potentially the most interesting couple on GOT and could have such an incredible love story. If the show was to follow through and deliver what I believe should happen (political!Jon and Jonsa) I’d be ecstatic and have no hesitancy in proclaiming them my OTP. But, unfortunately, I have reservations so for now I’m keeping my guard up because my shipper heart has been burned too many times before. Instead, for the final season I’m trying to focus more on enjoying their relationship from a platonic POV and if they are endgame I’ll be over the moon, but if not I’ll love and appreciate the depth and emotion in their relationship no matter which direction it takes in canon.

Thanks for asking!

send me a ship and i’ll give my honest opinion…

[xsocietydropoutx-blog]

Dear TVD

Warning: the following blog might be very unfocused and somewhat confusing, but that's only because I have a lot to say.

It doesn't take much to create a bad show. However, it's pretty difficult to make it good. Creating a good show from the start takes effort, talent, and luck. But you know what is super easy?

Creating a good show, and then ruining it completely.

At first, Elena is the type of girl that could make a gay guy go straight again. Just incredible. And Stefan is the type of person that would make that same man gay again. Damon, however, is the ultimate villain. Killing and tormenting people for no good reason at all.

Then, for no good reason at all, Elena starts to have feelings for Damon. Why?! He literally killed her father (or attempted to), slept with her birth mother, killed her brother, raped Caroline and abused her, tried to kill Bonnie and was responsible for the death of her grandmother, all for Katherine.

For 150 years, he was in love with her, and then all of the sudden he forgets all about her and moves on to Elena? Are you freaking kidding me?! How is that even logical?

Damon is constantly blaming Katherine of the person her became, and each time he does that, I don't know if I should roll my eyes or laugh out loud. She didn't teach him how to kill, and he was just a bad person ever since he decided to ruin Stefan's life after his transition. Plus, take Klaus for example, he was abused as a child, but not once did he blame Mikael of the person he became (only Ester, but rightfully so). Damon had no excuse of his actions, and that pisses me off.

One of my favorite characters in the show were Lexi, and of what we know, she was Stefan's best friend for over a century. And then, Damon killed her. Two episodes later, it was all forgotten. WTF?! But, when Stefan "killed" Enzo (it was a freaking self murder for crying out loud!) Damon never forgot about that, but completely ignored the fact that he left him for dead before.

Plus, Lexi is 360 years old. Remember when she went to help Damon in New York in the 80? She is a lot smarter than they made her in that scene in which she falls for Damon's crap. She would've known better.

I feel like the writers don't even know the character's personality half of the time, and just constantly change it. It's really confusing an frustrating. One minute, everyone is being mature and reasonable, and the next, they go back to kindergarten.

Normally, characters develop for the better, such as: Caroline, Jeremy, Klaus, Tyler and... well, I think that's it.

The characters that were regressed: ELENA, DAMON, BONNIE, MATT, STEFAN (sometimes) and the list goes on and on and on.....

From being the ultimate dream girl, Elena became a freaking doormat. Always obeying to Damon and being his little bitch. That's not love, my friends. That is freaking twisted.

Damon went from being a fifteen year old to being a ten year old. Makes a lot of sense, right? Plus, he is supposed to be the older brother, but not for once in the whole show did it look like that. Could've fooled me with Stefan being the eldest. Plus, in his human life, he was actually kinda nice, what the hell happened to that?! Oh yeah, Katherine. Not.

Stefan was often treated very poorly for making one bad choice. Damon has slept with so many people for so long and killed more than all of the originals combined, but when Stefan slept with Rebekah in season 4 and Katherine in season 5 people treated him like he is Satan.

Damon is the type of man you fall for in the middle of high school, change your whole personality for just to have his attention, and then he leaves you broken. That is a terrible massage to the next generation.

Stefan, however, is the perfect gentleman. Kind, smart, loving, respectful, honoring, and since he's a vampire and this is a television show -  a tormented soul that needs to be fixed. Just like Elena.

And they were beautifully broken together. Their ripped edges fit together, like they were meant to. It was more than perfect. It was EPIC.

But, sadly, other people didn't think like that. They thought that the man who is the bad guy should be the one to get the girl, because she can fix him. Have you watch the film Gone Girl? There was a sentence there that really stuck to me. "He took and took from me until I no longer existed." That is the definition of Delena. He has taken everything from her, her freedom of choice, her emotions, her family, her personality.

"That's murder."

I have also noticed how most of the fans ship Delena only because of Ian and Nina. I have asked one of my friends if she would've still shipped Delena if Paul was the one to play Damon, and she shook her head and said; "Hell no!"

I don't know if it's just me, but I've noticed that after someone dies and becomes a vampire, they become a whole different person. I hate that. You might as well have just taken the character and left it dead. I felt the fact that their emotions are heightened and whatever, but that doesn't change them.

And I don't know if it's just me, but the sire bond between Damon and Elena is based on feelings, and they didn't say what type of feelings. For all we know, they could've been hatred. Which makes a lot more sense.

I have also noticed something that happened in TVD a lot more than it should have. Once it appears as if the character has no where else to develop, it's been killed off. Jenna, Tyler, Kol, Vicky, and the list goes on. Again.

That is how they solved so many issues in the show - love triangles, characters made for one episode alone, stuff like that. And that is so immature and stupid to make a character only to kill it off.

I just have to say this: what Nina did was kind of a bitch move. Leaving the show while you're the lead actress is kinda like a company's CEO decides to quit all of the sudden. I completely understand her decision, but I think it's really something only Hollywood stars can afford to do, and that I like you spit in the fandom's face.

The show is called the vampire diaries - the diary of the vampire - the vampire is Stefan. The show is about him, not his serial killer psychopath of a brother!

By the way, the fact that Nina left doesn't mean that Elena had to go. With all of the traveler stuff, they could've just made Elena go into different body. That would've solved a lot.

A very big part of Delena's relationship is the sex. The reason their relationship even started is sexual attraction. That is a terrible message to send the future generation - have I mentioned that? I think I did. - and if Elena would've been transformed into a different body, that would have been a huge obstacle in Damon and Elena's relationship, and an opening for Stelena.

The doppelganger storyline wasn't as main as I thought it would be. In fact, I'd hoped that during her coma, Elena would have visions of the past couples and that we might get to see a few, and that they would make her understand how special what she had with Stefan truly was.

The more I write here, the more I understand I don't even like Elena anymore. I just want Stefan to be happy and the happiest I have ever seen him was with Elena.

And I just realllllyy wanna see Damon get what he deserves.

To be honest, I didn't watch the 7th and 8th seasons of the show. I promised myself that I would only if I felt like the ending was worth it. Frankly, it wasn't, so I have no intention to sit in front of my laptop and catch up, because there is no reason to. The ending sucked. Stefan was supposed to live happily ever after. If not with Elena, then by himself (Sorry Steroliners, but KLAROLINE IS LIFE) he deserved to live. I had hope that Damon would finally take the responsibility of being the older brother and finally do something for once in his whole wasted life, and help his little brother be happy, but of course not, Stefan must "Sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of other's right?" as he said in the finale of season 4. Too right.

Stelena was love, and respect, cherishing and loving the other person, especially their flaws. It was about concurring all and saving the people you care about, but remain loyal to yourself.

Delena is sex, sex, and some more toxic sex. It's putting yourself first and not caring about the amount of people that you hurt. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE SHOW SHOULD ENCURAGE!

People say that the type of people you like onscreen, especially serial killers, says a lot about your personality. Delena fans, who support this abusive relationship? They are like the watchers in Nerve, pressing on the YES button to kill the soul of an innocent girl. That is what they did to Elena. 

I asked my nephew today about his favorite super heroes, and he said "Spiderman, superman," ect. When I asked him of the joker, he said "NO! I don't like him, he's scary!"

And when I ask my friend - the delena fan mentioned before - she says "The joker is awesome, I love the bad guys."

I don't want him to grow up in a world in which in youth he is taught to help others in shows like Dora and Spiderman, and then become a teenager in a world that likes films with criminals and serial killers. Damon represents just that.

And let's be honest, every single one of the problems in the show would've been solved if Damon died in the first season.

To sum up, the show shouldn't have gone on without the main character. And I don't know if it's because I'm just hopelessly in love with the originals' accent, but I intend to watch the originals (I haven't watched the 3rd season of it as well, because I assumed that they would be linked and that I would get confused.) but I have hope that they writers will redeem themselves in the 4th season and maybe give us all the better ending we deserve.

Thank you for reading, please let me know what you think. I have no friends and I need someone to talk to about this lol.

P.S. is it just me or we still have no idea who stood on the bridge the day Elena and Jeremy's parents died? IDK...