#i dont think its a morality tale | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

axelsagewrites · 2 years ago

Note

I was think threesome with Ellaria Sand and Yara Greyjoy...don't know if that would be ok tho.

Ellaria and Yara*Company

Pairing: Ellaria x Yara x Targaryen!reader Platonic: Daenerys x sister!reader

Warnings: smut, f!receiving oral, fingering, nipple play, hickeys, slight degradation, dom Yara/Ellaria 18+

Word count: 3447

Summary: Yara and Ellaria decide to give the reader some company before the depart for Sun spear

A/N: I accept all requests so pls dont worry :)

Masterlist Here

While many men were threatened by your sisters claim you were surprised by the amount of powerful women in Westeros ready to back her. though the tales you had been told of its current queen could help explain why. Daenerys had always defended you growing up, fighting with your brother when he tried to sell you off after her and eventually having him killed. She always made sure you had her most trusted guards stationed outside your bedroom and would burn the world around you to keep you warm. You still remember the proud face she wore when your road Viserion for the first time.

Now you joined her in Dragonstone and sat in on her small council meetings. While you weren’t an expert in battle plans or ship strategies you were her heir and moral compass. She needed you to be on her side not for the war but for her sanity and her moral compass.

You listened to how even the women started to almost lecture your sister. “If you want the iron throne, take it!” Yara Greyjoy began her rant of brute force tactics. When you first met her, and you knew she would be stubborn and commanding. While you privately found this endearing it frustrated your sister who did not want to rule over ashes. You smiled as she discussed ships and soldiers. As if there weren’t three dragons who would win the war in an instant if you both agreed to it.

Tyrion knew this well from your sisters’ lengthy talks with him and pointed it out to the Iron Islander. Then the Dornish one spoke up. “It’s called war. If you don’t have the stomach for it scurry back into hiding,” Ellaria spat. You had heard a lot about her since her arrival. Watching her lover be murdered in front of her. a true tragedy. However, you were told she was just as passionate even before that.

As you learned about her you learned of the customs in Dorne as well. Men and women and women and women and men and men or sometimes many of each. Your sister had tried to protect you from the Dothraki ways, but the Dornes had a certain appeal to them. Despite her words Ellaria was beautiful in a way that left you so stunned you couldn’t even speak up. Your sister had to when Ellaria and Tyrion’s fight continued too long. you knew Ellaria’s sharp tongue should make you grimace or argue but it caused a strange light feeling in the pit of your stomach.

Daenerys approached the table as she began to discuss further with the council she had formed and rested her hand on your shoulder, giving it a gentle squeeze. Your silence was unusual to her, but she did not realise its cause. As they discussed war plans your eyes kept flickering to where the most beautiful, sharp witted, women you had met stood beside each other. An unlikely pair you thought but so attractive that it made your breath catch in its throat.

The only thing that broke your admiration was Tyrion’s next plan, “Lady Greyjoy will escort you home to sun spear,” your eyes snapped back to where Tyrion moved the wooden figures across the board, and you suddenly stopped the frown that had fallen on your face. It was so brief, half a moment if that, but when your eyes glanced to Yara you saw a smirk play on her lips, her eyes glued to you.

You had sunk slightly in your chair under her unwavering gaze, trying so hard not to blush or meet her eyes. Then she spoke, “Perhaps the princess should come with us,” Yara said causing your sisters hand to leave your shoulder and turn to Yara, “So she can wait out in the safety of Dorne,”

“No. She does not leave my side. I will not have it,” Daenerys said coldly, “She is safe with me,”

“I assure you your grace she would be treated very well in Dorne,” Ellaria said, her eyes flicking to you with what looked like a warm smile, but her eyes were filled with something else.

“My sister stays with me, in Dragonstone, or by my side. Always. Understood?” Daenerys said and the women nodded, their eyes trained on you, “Good. Now Tyrion continue,”

When the council meeting ended Daenerys asked Olena to stay to speak but held you back for a moment as well, “Don’t worry sweet sister. I will protect you. you are safe here you must not worry,” she said as she held your hands.

You smiled at her words, “I know Danny. I’m not worried,” you assured her.

“You just don’t seem yourself. What’s on your mind?”

“Perhaps we should discuss that later?” you asked, nodded your head towards where the Tyrell was still sat waiting expectantly.

Danny smiled and squeezed your hands before letting go, “I’ll find you before bed. Get some rest,”

When you left the chamber, you did not expect to see anyone else in the corridor, but Ellaria was outside of the door, leaning against the wall. She perked up when she saw you, “Princess,” She smiled as she pushed herself off the wall, “I don’t believe we’ve been properly introduced,”

“I don’t believe so,” you nodded, your head down as you tried to conceal your flush, “I’m just heading to my chambers im afraid,”

“I’ll walk you,” She smirked as she linked her arm with you and began to drag you away.

A hot flush crept over your neck as you said a quiet thank you. she walked with such grace and elegance that it was almost as if she was floating. “So, tell me about yourself,” Ellaria told you as she placed her hand over yours. You shivered at her touch; her skin as soft as silk.

“I’m afraid there’s too much to tell,” you blushed.

“Good thing im an excellent listener. When we get to your chambers, I can send someone to get a bottle of my finest Dornish red for us and you can tell me everything,” You knew you should not trust her or anyone for that matter, but her offer was so alluring that all you could do was nod.

When you arrived at your chamber, she told one of your men to fetch the wine then made herself comfortable as she sat on your bed, holding your hand loosely and bringing you to rest beside her. your eyes darted to the floor as you followed her silent command, but they were brought back to meet hers when she stroked a stand of hair out of your face. Her touch lingered and you felt yourself lean into it before she returned her hand to her side, “You are such an exquisite beauty,” her voice was low though and caused a warm tingling feeling across your skin.

“Not as pretty as you,” you tried to be confident, but your skin was hot.

Ellaria smiled at your words and bit back a chuckle, “Oh how sweet you are princess,” she said before you fell into a silence as you stared into her eyes. Your body felt pulled to her and hers yours as she began to lean in, her lips ghosting over yours.

Then someone knocked on the door. Ellaria didn’t break eye contact when she replied, “Come in,” her lips brushing over yours as they spoke.

Your eyes turned to the door where Yara stood leaning against the doorway with a smirk on her face, “Princess im shocked,” she teased as she sauntered into the room, “I thought I would’ve at least got an invite,” You blushed at her words, stuttering for a response when your guard appeared with the Dornish red that had been sent for. Yara took it off the man, “You can go,” she told him before closing the door behind him.

Ellaria moved closer to you as Yara approached but her lips had moved back, and you yearned for their return. “How can we help you Greyjoy?” she asked as her eyes trailed over the woman holding her wine hostage.

“I don’t know what’s finer,” Yara said as she ignored Ellaria and grabbed a spare cup off your nightstand. “Dornish wine or their women,” Yara said as she filled the cup and raised it slightly in Ellaria’s direction. The Dornish women let out a soft chuckle at her antics. “Though of course your grace neither are as fine as you,”

“At least there is something we can agree on,” Ellaria leaned in, so her hot breath fell onto your ear causing you to shiver.

Yara held the cup out to you and your fingers brushed against hers when you reached for it, “You are both far to kind. I don’t want to take up anyone’s time,” you stammered out before drinking half the cup in one go for some kind of courage. The wine was so sweet that it made you wonder what the Dornish lips tasted like.

Both women chuckled at your blush. Ellaria took the cup from your hand and took a sip for herself, “I have all the time in the world for you, your grace,”

“As do I,” Yara said as she refilled the cup, but her eyes were solely on you, “Surely you must get lonely. I hear you have never been wed,”

“Not yet,” you murmured as their eyes burned into your skin, “No suitable man has come up yet,”

“No man will ever be suitable,” Ellaria’s hand moved to rest on your thigh causing your breath to catch in your throat. You felt your skin tingle as she dragged her hand up your thigh to rest on your hip, “Not for someone of your beauty,”

“Trust me my princess,” Yara said as she leaned down onto on knee in front of you, taking your chin into your hand, “The company of women is far more…rewarding than that of men,”

“I-,”

You tried to talk but Ellaria used a finger to turn your head to face her as Yara’s hand fell away to rest on your knee, her thumb rubbing circles over your dress. “Have you enjoyed anyone’s company yet my sweet?” you shook your head at her words, “It would be an honour to share your company princess,”

“The highest of honours indeed,” Yara agreed as she leaned up from where she kneeled in front of you, her lips hovering over your breasts, “Tell us sweet princess. Would you like company this evening? Stress relief is important in times of war,” her fingers trailed over the neckline of your dress.

“I suppose I have been stressed recently,”

Ellaria tutted as she moved to kneel behind you, her hands going to your shoulders, “Stress is no good for you my dear,” she said as she swept your hair to the side and placed a kiss behind your ear. You shivered at her touch but leaned back into her, “Let us help you unwind. Would you like that?” you felt her nose gently run along the skin of your neck and you craved her lips again.

“Please,” you almost whimpered under their light touches.

“Who are we to deny the princess,” Yara said as her hands fell to move under your skirts, pushing them up your legs so her hand could rest on your bare thighs.

Ellaria’s lips began to leave open kisses to your neck, her tongue running over your skin and causing you to melt into her touch. She brought her hands down to begin squeezing your chest causing your nipples to harden. All while Yara placed her own kisses on your skin, starting at first on your knee before trailing up your inner thighs to you under clothes. Her fingers dug deep into your thighs and the pain and pleasure caused you to let out small moans and whimpers. “You sound so pretty,” Ellaria praised.

Yara began to kiss and suck on one bit of your thigh as she left deep purple marks into your skin, “So fucking pretty,” she agreed before soothing to spot with her tongue before adding another. “Tell me princess,” she asked as she pulled away from your flesh, “Have you ever touched yourself?”

Your breath caught in your throat as you stared down at the Islander who refused to break eye contact with you, “She asked you a question sweetheart,” Ellaria’s fingers had found your nipples and pinched them at your silence.

You gasped at the sensation, your eyes fluttering shut when she began to softly twist them, “Yes,” you confessed in a moan causing Ellaria to chuckle.

“How naughty of you princess,” Yara grinned as her hands moved up your thigh, closer to your admittingly wet pussy. “I’m sure I could do it better though,”

“Prove it,” you stuttered before moaning again when Ellaria put her lips back on your neck.

Yara chuckled at your attempt to be bold, “Your gonna regret that,” she smirked as she pulled your underclothes off, “Look how wet you already are. How pathetic,” she grinned as she trailed a finger up your wet fold causing you to gasp. Yara put the finger in her mouth to taste your juices. The way she moaned made your stomach flutter, “Better than the wine,”

Yara began to press kisses to the tops of your inner thighs, her face brushing against your core as she moved. You whined at the feeling. “So impatient,” Ellaria purred. Yara placed one last kiss to your thigh before turning to where you needed her most. She trailed her tongue up your slit causing a loud moan to fall from your throat. “She likes that,” Ellaria chuckled as she pulled her lips away.

“Good,” Yara smirked before her tongue descended back onto your wet cunt, licking long stripes up your wetness. She brought your legs over her shoulders, her hands gripping your thighs so tight you knew there would be marks tomorrow but you didn’t care as her tongue dived into you.

Ellaria turned your head sideways to face her as she crashed her lips onto yours. You moaned into the kiss as she continued to squeeze one nipple, the other hand holding your jaw in place. Her tongue began to glide over your lip causing you to open more to let her in, something she gladly did.

Meanwhile Yara’s tongue trailed further up to began making sloppy circles over your clit. The new sensation and your moan caused you to pull back from Ellaria’s kiss which only made her grip your jaw tighter before slamming her lips onto yours.

A warm feeling was bubbling in your stomach as the sensations overtook your body. Yara brought one of her hands to replace her tongue at your whole, two fingers diving in and curling inside you with expertise. You whimpered into the kiss. Ellaria pulled her lips off you and began leaving sloppy kisses on your neck, her tongue trailing over your skin. Her hands pulled the top of your dress down, revealing your breasts fully which she began to squeeze.

Almost as if perfectly timed Yara began to suck on your clit as Ellaria squeezed your nipples, twisting them gently as she did. Your body tensed before releasing all the pressure built inside as you came on Yara’s tongue which did not stop moving until you slumped back into Ellaria’s arms. “You were so good for us,” She praised as she pressed a kiss to your head.

“But you’re not done,” Yara said as she stood up, her knees probably aching from how long she was between your thighs. “Get up,” you did as you were told as Ellaria shot Yara a questioning look. Yara took her hand and raised her from the bed. She turned back to you and took your face into her hands “You’re going to ride her face while I suck on those pretty tits of yours,” she said before clashing her lips onto yours.

Her kiss was harsh and desperate as she began to pull the dress off your body. Ellaria pressed herself behind you, placing kisses to your neck as her hand reached round your front in between yours and Yara’s body. Her hand moved to between your legs, rubbing her fingers expertly around your clit. “Fuck,” you whined as you separated the kiss.

“You don’t get to cum again just yet,” Ellaria said as she removed her hands from your body. Her hands moved to untie the strings of her dress, letting it pool to the floors beside yours. “Come with me princess,” she said as she took your hand and led you to the bed.

Ellaria eyes gazed into yours as she lay back on the bed, pulling you to kneel above her. “What if I hurt you?” you asked causing the other two to laugh.

“You won’t,” she assured you, her hands resting on your legs, but you were still hesitant, “If I need you to stop, I’ll double tap your thighs my sweet,”

“Okay,” you said as you shuffled up slightly, your body now above her chest. “Do I just uh- “you stuttered which made Ellaria smile and Yara laugh.

Yara knelt behind you and grabbed your hips forcing you to shuffle up. Your core was probably soaking from what had just happened to it. You felt Ellaria’s sweet breath fan over it. Yara pressed a kiss to the back of your neck, “Let yourself enjoy it princess,” Yara told you.

Slowly you sank down onto Ellaria’s face, her hands moving to grip your thighs and pull you down more. You gasped as her tongue licked up your slit, her nose nuzzling against your core. You felt Yara shuffling behind you before she took her place on her knees in front of you of the bed. Her hand went to the back of your neck and pulled you in to crash her lips onto yours.

You whimpered when Ellaria’s tongue began to dive into you, curling against your walls. Yara smirked into the kiss as her hands moved to grab your breasts. Her hands were much rougher than Ellaria as was her grip which made you moan more. However, her hands soon moved to grab your ass, sinking her fingers into the flesh before delivering a quick spank to one cheek. You gasped which broke the kiss but soon chased her lips again as her hand ran over the red mark to sooth it.

One of her hands found your hips to make you grind against Ellaria’s face. This made her nose nuzzle deeper into your clit making the same pressure as before building up all over again. Yara’s other hand went to your breast, grabbing it hard before her fingers began to toy with your nipple. Her lips fell from yours to capture the other nipple with her wet kisses. Your moans rang out in the chamber as Yara’s teeth grazed your sensitive bud.

The pressure was almost painful as the pair continued their assault on your most sensitive areas. You felt your body tighten and Ellaria pulled your thighs down further as your hips tried to buck away. “Please im gonna- “you beg was interrupted by a gasp as Yara pinched your nipple.

She released the other with a pop as she pressed a wet kiss to your lips, “Let go princess,” she told you and suddenly the knot in your stomach unleashed as you came hard from Ellaria’s tongue and Yara’s hand. A moan ripped through your throat as your body spasmed above her.

Ellaria’s grip on your thighs relinquished and before you could fall on her Yara grabbed your shoulders to pull you to lay on the bed. “Fuck,” you gasped as you stared up at the ceiling dazed.

Soon the two women were laying on each of your side, Yara’s hand stroking your thigh as she placed sweet kisses to your cheeks. Ellaria began to play with your hair, leaving her own kiss on your forehead, “You were magnificent,” she praised.

The three of you continued your fun before retiring in a heap under the blankets. You were half out of it when you heard your chamber door creak open. Your head lazily turned to the side before your eyes quickly widened when you met your sisters gaze. Danny stood, her jaw dropped and eyes wide before she quickly composed herself, “This is not what I meant by rest,” she said, her voice low when she noticed your two new friends were softly snoring.

“Sorry?” you offered with a sheepish smile.

“Its okay,” Danny said with a chuckle, “I guess I’ll have to start knocking,”

A/N: First time writing wlw smut one shot so hope I did it justice. It was also my first time writing a three some so two in one lol

#yara greyjoy smut #yara greyjoy imagine #yara greyjoy #ellaria sand #ellaria sand imagine #ellaria sand smut #ellaria sand x reader #ellaria sand x yara greyjoy #yara greyjoy x ellaria sand #yara greyjoy x reader #game of thrones smut #game of thrones show #game of thrones #game of thrones x reader #game of thrones imagine #requested #wlw

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ps1demodisk · 10 months ago

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Thinking about the Solitaries recently.

There is not much lore, it saddens me.

I think from his interaction with Vala and #7 in his Tales, it's a case of the Solitaries becoming part of The Heroic Order after Valen's capture.

When he tries to be smooth with Vala, during that interaction she says "The Heroic Order are the swords and shields of the nobility. How can one be unaware of those who serve them?" Meaning the Solitaries as a group server under The Heroic Order and not just Valen.

But from #7 in his Tales, one of the Solitaries is questioning how Hogan managed to catch Valen (referring to Valen as "the captain"), implying they were their own thing before this point.

While it's currently unknown (as far as I'm aware) how long it's been since they began working under The Heroic Order, it can be assumed it's a while considering how Vala makes no mention of the Solitaries as anything except a branch of The Heroic Order

[This next part is from a conversation I had with my friend masondjar]

It would also explain why Valen does undercover work, I think before his capture the Solitaries were a lot more morally grey, definitely not legal by any means.

I don't think they captured him to make him join The Heroic Order, but he hit Hogan with that pathetic white boy stare and poor Hogan was like "oh he's baby... my child... my son now..." and they ended up striking some sort of deal.

In the words of mister d.jar because they put it in baby terms for me after my brain died and I like their funny words:

"i was just like. wondering if they were tasked to do other things before being ushered into the heroic order? i dont think they were doing everything the heroic order wanted them to do. it feels similar to anonymous and how people become white hat hackers. anonymous is a group of people who tend to "troll" big companies and people. leaking, doxxing, internet sleuth kinds of things but morally grey - not really good but not really bad. white hat hackers are people the government takes in to deal with, break down and study potentially harmful viruses, trojans etc. they typically come from a background of prior hacking and creating malicious malware. so with him being "captured" i dont think they captured him in order to ask him to join the heroic order - least not outright. he may have been a lot more morally grey at that point and had done some things the heroic order wanted him to "atone" for yknow - justice to its fullest sorta thing"

Uh so yeah thanks for attending my yap session about Mister Valen AFK Journey :]

#afk journey #afk arena #afk valen #valen afk #yapping #lore speculation #I think

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arcoiriaaa · 1 month ago

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I think i will chew someone head if i see anyone whos trying to be moral police over shippers, especially right now they are targeting Sukume ( Sukuna + Uraume) Shipper. Holy Moly, the allegation that get thrown is insane from pedophillia to grooming accusation.

Guys I know maybe in real world you're not really significant and you want to get to a 'better world' idk lol, but shaming someone for something FICTIONAL is actually making you look dumb and dont have any emotional intelligence. Ok you can bring 'fiction can affect reality' argument here, but with the same logic you should get mad at anyone who likes horror movies with killer and violance, or action movies with gun and punching people. And holy sht Sukuna is a mass murderer why the hell are you simping him??! Are you insane?!

See. Nothing in fiction actually sane. Fiction is exciting and fun because its not define and ruled by our moral code, Fiction is a break from ourvreality. Fiction is usually something that we dont really encounters in real life and thats why its exciting. Do you ever see someone doing 'kabedon' in real life? No right, and if it does its cringe, but its looks really cool in romance stories.

Anyway if you want somehing whos really into moral and such you can go to a church not social media.

Trying to be moral police over a fiction is big waste of energies. Theres so many starving kid in Africa, and so much more get kill*d in war. So why dont you use your voice and actually help them. You could be better people, someone whos really change the world.

And actually im not done. Why are you trying to shame people over a headcanon thats up from interpretation, parent -child relationship is a headcanon, as well sukume as romantic partner, theres no wrong with that because thats just different viewpoint.

From what I see Uraume and Sukuna never refer themself or each other as a family/dad/son/daughter. Never once Uraume act/depicted as a childern so why are you insisting the shipper are proship? When its not comfirmed anything about their age. You guys literally make a headcanon over 4 pages and Sukuna call Ume Child ( i see someone on reddit said that it could also translate as 'brat' a more age free choice of word) then you all treating they are parent -child as a canon. Not only that you are also trying to shove everyone throat of that hc, you then shaming people whos have another interpretation.

So tell me, Did a father see their child like this when bathing?

Or did a child see their parent like this, even though he is literally naked here? For what? Admiring their dad 15 yrs old new body??

They dont look like parent and child to me. Not until theres another official source that says otherwise, but for now their official canon dynamic is master and servant.

Ohh you still want to bring ' but they are meeting them when they are a child' argument here. Fck u and you close minded brain whos think anywhere in the world is having the same morals with western region of the world. In Asian, i think most asian counties is never have a problem with age gap couple, or 'meeting them as a child', whats we gonna have problem is when the child get married under legal age and didnt have consent for it.

Most asian countries is having patriachal culture( including Japan) . The husband is usually older (could be much older) than his wife because man have responsibility to be a guardian, a teacher, and a wise partner for his wife.

In Japan i think age gap or 'meeting them as a kid' is never a problem. I think Japan has many literature and entertainment product that include this tropes.

Should I tell you a bit about ' The Tales of Genji' a classic Japan literature , and considered as one of the oldest novel in the world. Written by noblewoman Murasaki Shikibu in Heian Period. Genji as the protagonist is having a very adventurous life especially in romantic aspect, form another woman to another woman. Do you know about one of his wife is named lady Murasaki. He met her when she is just 10 years old and he is impressed because she reminded him about his stepmother Lady Fujitsubo (whos he also banging) , then he ask to adopt her, andddd guess what, yess they married later on.

Andddd how about ' memoirs of geisha' movies. You must've been heard about that right. Yess, Chiyo (female lead) is meeting chairman when she is just i dunno maybe 9? And chairman looks like 30 in movies.

On modern era, in anime we have plenty of that dynamic to. How about the famous one Sesshomaru Rin from inuyasha, Sesshomaru is thounsand years and rin is just 7 (?) maybe when they met.

Well how about the latest shoujo anime that i think still airing right now. Its called

"Yarinaoshi Reijou wa Ryuutei Heika wo Kouryakuchuu"

The female lead is in 10 years old body right now. But yeah shes already promised 10 child for him in the future lol 😂😂😂

So yeah it is just some example, actually I could list so many stories that have the same concept, from straight manga, bl ,movies , and everything. Meeting your partner as a kid is definitely not a foreign concept in Japan. Whats important is the romantic relationship is developed after the younger one already legal and consenting for it.

#sukume #sukuna #uraume #jjk #sukuna x uraume

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helaenalyst · 7 months ago

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alternative alicole reading: they're not just lancelot and guenevere, they're also don quixote and dulcinea

if you are not familiar with the story of don quixote, it is a spanish book that parodies the typical tales of knighthood of northern europe (such as the arthurian legends or la chanson de roland) under the premise that "such a story could never be told here, because people are down to earth and don't care for honor or morals here". within this context, don quixote is an aging minor noble who sets out on a quest to embody the ideals of knighthood in a world where it is impossible to do so and as a person for whom it is impossible to do so

personally i find that criston's character as he is written in the show also explores these themes even if a lot is different. the worst parts of himself are constantly spilling through the cracks in the armor that he hopes to contain them with (plus he's dornish! dorne is based on southern spain iirc as george rr martin said). but of course criston is not only don quixote as he does have many qualities of the lancelot archetype as well such as the youth and the unmatched physical prowess

now as for don quixote's "lady", dulcinea. dulcinea is a peasant woman who has been abused and mistreated all her life, she is seen as worthless and as a "ruined woman" as a result of the abuse she has endured. but to don quixote, due to his "madness", she is a lady worth serving, worth worshipping and worth dying for. they are not in love, she thinks he's crazy, but it does move her in the end to have one person in the world who thinks of her as valuable after the way she's been treated so they have a platonic relationship that is quite special

i am an alicole shipper in the sense that i love their complex dynamic, and i love both characters very much, but i don't think alicent's view of criston is like guenevere's view of lancelot, i think her character is a mix of guenevere and dulcinea vibes and her perception of criston is deeply complex but leans more towards "dear friend i am fond of and find physically crazy attractive" than "love of my life that i would move heaven and earth to be with". he's the one who's been there for her through it all treating her like she's worthy of worship in a world that told her that she didn't matter and that she was born to be used and dismissed. but even that didn't protect him from also acting dismissive towards her in the last episode. even that didn't stop him from committing a murder in front of her "for her sake" that made her scared of what he might do next. i think they're both characters that wish they were nobler than they are but ultimately they are just extremely human and flawed no matter how hard they fight against it

i've seen a lot of disappointment over how alicole developed this season by people who expected a more noble, more romantic version of their relationship when it finally came to pass and i think that no one feels that way more strongly than alicent and criston themselves. but imo it didn't turn out that way because it couldn't turn out that way for them because of who they are and the world they live in. but i still find their attempts to live up to these standards impressive and commendable and i think that they also see that in one and another and is a reason why they love each other (even if i dont personally think that they are in love with each other). ironically it's precisely these attempts to be more than they are that often get them so much hate from the fandom and the other characters because it is percieved as them being hypocrates by believing in one thing and then doing another. which is a valid reading and something i think they are aware of and eats them up inside

tldr i like their bond for what it is even if its not the perfect ideal of romance, i still think it's beautiful in its own way and i am glad that they had each other through all these years in a situation where they did not really have any alternatives of others to turn to. i don't know if any of this makes any sense to anyone who hasn't read don quixote in spanish but it makes sense to me <3 so i hit post

#hotd #criston cole #alicent hightower #alicole

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tubchunk · 1 year ago

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me spitting out all my thoughts here as i watch tubbo's vod

"YEP innocent" "innocent to me" yeah like qtubbo doesnt give a shit if fred is bad, he will burn it all down to find her

"its time for me to step into the sun, you know? and who cares if everyone else burns?" HOLY FUCKKKKKKKK TUBBO??????

"this is more than a villain arc, this is a lifestyle adjustment" oh qtubbo you are going to fly so close to the sun and youre going to burn and i am here for it all

"you wrong me? you're not gonna be around to tell the tale" HES SODHDJDBFBFJ QTUBBO ENJOYERS WE ARE SO BACK

"this is not a story of villains and heroes, this is a story of revenge" WHAT WAS IN HIS FOOD TODAY WHAT WAS HE ONNNNN LINE AFTER LINE IS HITTING

qtubbo knowing the server underestimates him and is now ready to show what he really is capable of YOU GO BABYGIRL

"this is a conflict where there arr no winners, just mutually-ensured destruction" goddamn he is on it today

GIRL 26 STACKS OF TNT?????????

"anything to get the upper hand, am i right?" AND THEN MENTIONING THE FED OFFICE WARP PLATE IS ACTIVE OH MY GODDDDDDD FED QTUBBO ERA????

"in my own experience, the members of the islandhave been much worse to me than the federation ever has been" oh my gOD YES QTUBBO FEELING THE FED PUNISHMENTS ARE STILL "JUSTIFIED" CUZ THERE WERE RULES BROKEN BUT THE ISLANDERS HAVE BEEN POKING AT HIM FOR THINGS HE CONSIDERS UNNECESSARY OH VILLAIN ARC TIME IS REALLLL

HE CALLED FRED "THE ONE PERSON I CARE ABOUT ON THIS SERVER" IM SICK TO MY STOMACHDBDBFGBDBFJFJ

qtubbo deciding that morning crew doesnt need to know about what hes gonna do, cuz theyll always be his boys :(

"i think we show them a healthy does of regret" his qcellbit is coming out !!

just imagining qtubbo with his airpods in as he is dramatic, bumping classical music

"the suit stays on until he's found, safe and alive" thr fact that qtubbo does all this, still in thr suit for his date GOD its so sad

that post that said qtubbo, a machine guy, tearinf every block down by HAND is important cuz that shows how genuinely furious he is. cuz he needed to feel the catharsis of tearing it all down himself.

why did he research warp plate mods to figure out where fred is😭😭 gay love stories are getting out of hand

"i made a promise today. i said i would break every block he has ever placed. *i* will break. fire wont break. tnt wont break. *i* will break." holy fucking shittttttttt he got possessed by qtubbo

FIT LMAOOOOO

qfit noticing and asking why qtubbo was at quackity's but as qtubbo askes him to leave him be, he did. he knew qtubbo would come to him when he wanted to.

COY PISO INTERMISSION!!!

qtubbo's action plan just being pushing qquackity over the edge that is so fucked up and i am here for this downward spiral !!

"i could mentally destroy him until hes a quivering ball of tears and regret on the floor" HOLY FUCK???????

"youre trying to turn me against the federation while actively doing thr same exact thing they're doing, the fucking hypocrisy" GOD i think qquackity is justified in his reasons BUT QTUBBO ISNT WRONG HERE!!!! IN HIS EYES, WHY WOULD YOU SAY THEYRE BAD AND THEN DO THR SAME THINF AS THEM???

him still saving all the stuff qquackity got from the eggs and others cuz "those seem important" GOD

"he doesnt need a hoise, cuz home is where the heart is. and i feel like thats a lesson he ought to learn. too bad that his is dead and cold" QTUBBO HOLY?????

"its like you never existed at all. thats my mission" girl youre speedrunning that descent into insanity and evil and i love you for it

"youre crazy. maybe i am! i dont give a shit!" wow hes so aware

"i didnt have a purpose before. but now its to make sure quackity never has a mark on this server" he didnt have a purpose and now, after losing fred, his purpose is to make qq pay holyyyy

"i never said i was morally grey, i said i would fuck up all his shit" LETSGO BABYGIRL

HIM GOING TO THE FED OFFICE TO PoSSIBLY SNITCH, CUZ THE ENEMY OF HIS ENEMY IS HIS FRIEND

NOT THE SERVER RESTART STOPPING HIM LMAOOOO

him literally saying he doesnt care and the enemy of his enemy is his friend yoo

qtubbo not being silly and walking into fred's office and just quietly moving on STOPPPPPP

NOT THE LORE SPOILERSSSSS LMAO

RETURN OF CUCURUCHO OFFICE PODCASTTTTTTTTT

"if youve become as bad as the thing you are trying to destroy to destroy it, yourr not better. youre just a replacement" BARS 🔥🔥🔥

qtubbo's voice instantly softening looking at fred's office and the desk plant he got STOPPPPP THEY MEAN SO MUCH TO ME

him replacing the flower on fred's desk with a poppy :(((

QTUBBO REPLACING THE WARP AT HIS HOUSE TO THE FED OFFICE OH I CAN FEEL HOW THIS GOES DOWNHILL

"why do i bother making anything to help the server? this is the thanks i get" oh yeah he is fully turning against everyone soon

oh god convo with qfit

oh i know qfit is concerned hearing qtubbo talk this way but theres nothing he can do to make him change his mind, so he just stays by him

"just to watch him. not say a word. just watch him" WATCHER QTUBBO??????

oh qtubbo is actuslly scaring me rn

"theres an old sayinf that 'if youre on the quest for revenge, dig two graves" "thats alright. i dont care if i burn as long as he does as well. maybe ill dig 3 graves. maybe ill take some other people along with me on the way" HOLY FUCKCJDJFJDJFJFJDJFJ QTUBBO YOURE INSANE I LOVE YOU SO BAD

"so i take there was no date?" "i was invited on one. it was real to me" GODJDDHFB IM GONNA END IT ALL

qfit still reassuring qtubbo that fred is okay, he still cares for qtubbo so much thats someone he has grown to care for

TUBBO SHOWING FIT WHAT HE DID TO QUACKITY'S HOUSE AND SAYING "like i said. like he never existed" AND THEN JUST BOUNCED????? GIRL.

qtubbo gaslight gatekeep girlboss

"is it more satisfying to destroy a person. or watch them destroy themselves?" AND WE ARR WATCHING AS QTUBBO ALSO DESTROYS HIMSELF BIT BY BIT OOOOOOOOH

his ass spoiling stuff again😭😭

snack break!

PHIL HOUSE TIME

qtubbo instantly leaving when he sees quackity joined and fred joined god

the curse of bad nees bringer tubbo about to strike again with wilbur LMAO

distracted to spy on wilbur so real

QUIRKYDUOOOOOO

qtubbo just carrying thr flower from fred's office in his offhand im sick

qtubbo warning qpac that he may hear some stuff about him that isnt true i. coming weeks, and qpac saying he trusts qtubbo 100% MORNING CREW MY FAMILYYYYYYY

PAC MY BELOVEDDDDD

not pac and tubbo arguing over who has to break the news to wilbur lmaoooooo

qtubbo qquackity's biggest hater rn

damn im sad tubbo crashed before the event but that laptop was hanging by a THREAD

#q!tubbo #qsmp #qsmp tubbo #qsmp liveblog

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violentdevotion · 2 years ago

Text

what if i.....?

i used to have the old tube tv in my bedroom and idec about the foot cancer it probably gave me i miss that thing so bad

#self rb #i understand all the moral tales abt trying to capture your youth blah blah blah bc i wanna buy fucking everything #its just. im gonna sounf SOOOO annoying now #everyone in my family has a tv in their room except me (and my mum) :(#im sooo impoverished #and i dont want a TV like a flatscreen wall mounted tv #but i think abt my old tube tv and idek what happened to her #i dont remember getting rid of it its just gone now forever #and i want it back

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hawkzeyes · 10 months ago

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hey i'm so sorry i know you've linked to it probably a million times but i can't find it: can i have the link to your hawkeye reading list pleaseee and thank you 🥳

Hi Hi!! Please never apologize for asking I have the most unorganized blog in all hawkeye accounts LMFAOOO so not being able to find recs in here is understandable

Im assuming you mean Clint, but just in case not I will add Kate's in at the end!

So First of course is this icon's first appearance in

Tales of Suspense #57 (1964) - (he also shows up a few more times in tales of suspense but obviously this is the most important one!)

The Avengers #16 (1965) is when he joins and becomes our favorite little Avenging Archer (forewarning he is a little shit here. His favroite pass time in the beginning is driving Steve up a wall. I personally find this dynamic very funny but some dont)

He is with the Avengers for a really long time. Like more than 150+ comics(he isn't Hawkeye the whole time though as he does have a little bit I believe that starts in Avengers #63-#98 where he is Goliath. He comes back to us as Hawkeye in Avenger #99)

Hawkeye (1983) is his first solo ever! It's a mini series but its one of my personal favroites!

West Coast Avengers (1984)- this is where we get to see him take lead in a brand new team in California!

The West Coast Avengers (1985)- this is just a contitnuation of the previous mentioned!

Solo Avengers (1987)- We find out more tea about Clint's life prior to avenging here

He stays with the West Coast Avengers for a hot minute before we get his second solo

Hawkeye (1994) he's reaaaaal tough guy big feelings in this one

then he shows up in Avengers again in 1995 (yeah I know but hey he is the avenging archer so that's where youre gonna find him the most) He even gets a new lil fit and everything (he looks like he belongs in a boyband and I love it)

Thunderbolts (1998) is where Clint shows up ( in 2001 I believe) and takes over the team! He essentially helps try to guide them into being a good hero team and if I remember correctly I think its either #74-#75 where he leaves the Thunderbolts (I can't remember exactly I'm sorry)

Hawkeye (2003)- a third solo!!! look at our little guy go!!!

Then he... well he dies LMFAOOO in Avengers (2004) and the Clint Barton you knew and love is about to change forever

The New Avengers #26 (2006) if i remember correctly and it's.. well it's a sad one and he isn't the lovely Hawkeye when he comes back either. This is where Clint becomes Ronin, which is a rather dark time for Clint.

Secret Invasion (2008) This is also sad im sorry LMFAOOO Clint's morals are tested often as Ronin

The New Avengers (2009) Again he is ronin here so if youre looking for Clint just as Hawkeye he isn't here but don't worry he is back as Hawkeye soon enough

New Avengers: The Reunion (2009) whooooo's he getting a reunon with ;)

Hawkeye & Mockingbird (2010) guess what, that's who he got a reunion with I LOVE THIS COMIC

Widowmaker (2010) is basically a continue on of ^ with Nat involved

Avengers: Solo (2011) CLINT!!!! AS!!! HAWKEYE!!! Doin Hawkeye shit

Hawkeye: Blindspot (2011) do you like family angst? Good. Here. Have the family angst.

There is an event going on around this time called Fear Itself that he is involved in and also he is in Secret Avengers (2012) starting #21 or #22 where he becomes the leader.

Hawkeye (2012) We all know and love this bad boy. You could fit so many tears into it.

Secret Avengers (2013) again??? yes again.

Secret Avengers (2014) haha yeah again

Hawkeye Vs Deadpool (2014) it's fun! it's cute! Wade makes me laugh and he has a soft spot for the Hawkeyes

All-New Hawkeye (2015) there is some retconning done here

I don't wanna talk about Civil War II (2016) it makes me really sad LMFAOOO but yes he is in it and it should be read because well.. he makes a BIGGGGGG choice here that I feel has def echoed in his characterization since and has caused lots of misleading beliefs about Clint

Occupy Avengers (2016) Woooooooh I like this one it's fun

Secret Empire (2017) He is in it if I remember correctly but I grouch about this whole concept because I thought it was stupid. It gives the same energy as "What if Superman was evil" and I'm sure as a DC fan you know how annoying that concept is.

Generations: Hawkeye(2017) This is soooo cute I love this one. Kate meets a younger Clint in it and they run around together

Tales of Suspense #101 (2018) This will never not make me laugh. Him and Bucky working together is always funny

He is also involved in Kate's Hawkeye run during this time but I've got that on her list

West Coast Avengers (2018) I liked this. I love when Kate and Clint work together and I liked seeing the nods to the original WCA

Hawkeye: Freefall (2020) crying puking throwing up it's so good and fun until it's not fun anymore

Black Widow (2020) Not my favroite run for Nat... feels like the tone is off but he is in it

Thunderbolts (2022) I liked this...would have been super cool if Marvel had kept it as a continuing run because I feel like it didn't get to finish it's story. I'm still sour about it.

NOW obviously this is not everything ever he has ever been in and I'm certainly not perfect enough to have read every. single. appearance. So please forgive me if I missed something important cause sometimes my brain is not so greeat with memory.

x Kate Reading List!

#clint barton #hawkeye #reading list #clint beloved

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horizon-verizon · 3 months ago

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Isn’t it kinda weird that people ship daemyra? I'm not targeting daemyra, but the shippers. Though their relationship was acceptable in their era, I see many fans using this as a pretext to actively endorse it, which is problematic. It's one thing to acknowledge the historical and cultural context of a relationship, but it's another thing entirely to romanticize or ship it when we now have the knowledge and understanding that one of the individuals involved is a child.

Need your opinion on this

*EDITED POST - 2/2/25*

DISCLAIMER: I am a Daemyra shipper. Read with caution. I DONT ship them when Rhaenyra is a child & Daemon uses her against Viserys! but when they are older, even though (I-can't-see-I'm-blind sort of situation).

Firstly, what do people really mean when they say "endorse"? I know it may seem like splitting hairs, but to "endorse" vs to be okay with something or to like it are two different things. Because endorse means:

1. to approve openly [Merriam Webster] endorse an idea, especially: to express support or approval of publicly and definitely 2. to publicly or officially say that you support or approve of (someone or something) [Brittanica]

Basically to promote it as something people SHOULD do and are morally licensed to do if they so choose--to approve of it happening in future (near or far). To encourage people (real or fictional) to do it. And some Dameyra shippers, in my experience, do not do that--or PROMOTE/APPROVE of grooming (some are too okay with it and actually do, I'll give you that).

I think bc of what I mention later, there's an understanding that while there is not an ideal situation, it's happening bc of circumstances that are in a weird way percieved as wholesome nontheless. Rhaenyra and Daemon are an exception bec of the conditions they are in.

Finallly, at this point, GRRM, writes his relationships w/ or w/o the pleasure or advice of his fans as most published novel writers do. I cannot "encourage" or "promote" a thing already arranged if we are talking within the story--and of course, Daemyras tend to not "endorse" such relationships and abuses in real life. Yes, fiction can inspire people to do terrible things and has for years, esp w/how impressionable people can be or eager to find ways to justify their behavior. But would that also mean that we're laying responsibility off of the people who should be looking at a child-adult abuse as "sexy but refuse to and make as if they'd never be inclined to do stuff like this regardless of GRRM? It's a fine line, and I don't think the "answer" is to ignore how context and the progression of the story goes.

Because it does determine the quality of said troubling situation we're assessing, and said quality as GRRM has written is not an abuse tale. I also don't want to see grooming--the definition--lose its ssens of "purposeful predation to shape victim to one's own needs regardless of said victim's own needs, often turning them against their own family or support base for said domination".

Secondly, you're essentially asking why it isn't a dealbreaker? You could refer to my post HERE, but here it is in short:

Perhaps I'm going to be flowery, exhaustive, and "purple prosey" again, but I think it is basically that that very context creating the exploration of a tragedy of forces stronger than oneself. People love tragic tales, esp doomed ones. It's almost always validating in that there is a persistence of self against outside pressures that may or may not (but usually does) have said pressures be compulsions to conform against one's own happiness or authenticity, even and sometimes especially when the couple dies at the end. That in of itself is a sort of "resistance" that's supposed to coincide with GRRM's whole thing of "choosing life in spite of death" or "we found love in a hopeless place" sort of thing in ASoIaF, but for royals and in a royal iteration. And Daemon is ironically a haven in the midst of it but much more than Harwin was.

Rhaenyra's story is a doomed one not because she was the entire cause of the Dance or some evil temptress but bc the historical actions of her ancestors and the feudal-patriarchal system they all live under has already set up designs against women and those the women could use to occupy the positions granted to men. GRRM loves his tragic tales of love; look at Rhaelya! But they also tend to--long way forward--lead to strains of hope in later generations...which works to make the whole thing even more bitter sweet and melancholy. They also both buy into it of course, which certainly contributed, but from the jump we know these two will not succeed. So from there it's a thing of enjoying the couple as they are and what they serve in the narrative. Oh, and of course the true star is Dany, and Rhaenyra had to die for Dany's story to be what it was (death of the dragons, women subjugated, Targs losing their sense of self leading to the Rebellion).

When there is no or mostly and actively morally upright party like a Daenerys, humans will root for the most impressive, thrilling, or aesthetically beautiful story/characters/relationships that scratches that itch some. You can certainly whack GRRM for creating so many ships that are this too-taboo thing(s), but people are very prone to misleading some things about people-as-people that I think (even with the historical inaccuracies GRRM defends as "accurate" about ages when noble people married) the writer does convincingly capture between this "conversation" in his work about the relationship between environment and choice. At least for enough people that there is something to how he's doing it.

And then, yes, sometimes people will over-romanticize, and much more than I think you're imagining it, anon. I've read some fics...let's say that sometimes people feel the need to dramatically change the characters that always puts me off bec it erases what was "fun" about them in the first place.

Here it is written in another way:

At risk of just repeating anon, the draw of Daemyra for a lot of people is that CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND EVEN DESPITE/BECAUSE OF THEM, they had one of the most the strongest bonds for the longest time (and yes, even with Daemon loving Laena) in the orig story and they matched each others' drive/fire/pride (the last in all its meanings).

They seem (operative word here) to understand each other the most, were the most comfortable with each other, and were the others' biggest support.

Again, it's not exactly the incest but what the incest/age gap (IN THE CONTEXT GRRM CREATED) does for the bond that comes to be, the context of Targs distrusting other houses (often w/good reason but it's an imperfect situation) AND wanting to preserve a lost culture.

Daemon for all intents and purposes could have become a 100% perfect manifestation of patriarchal privilege and male pride: one of the best warriors of his time, access to one of the most formidable and impressive creatures through his state of birth, action-oriented but not opposed to using strategy tactics, nearly irresistible to women an attitude and inspiring enough to men both in the story and in the fandom with his charisma, blah blah. And he certainly still had all those things or was written that way.

The kickers are that he's forced to acknowledge his truer desires to support his family towards prosperity and survival--where his loyalty to Rhaenyra comes in--and those desires are so much a priority he basically shuns much else, or at least removes himself from that, and thus he cannot/does not bother to put on much airs or try to gain approval...which is a very common thing amongst nobility who often curry favor or imagine themselves to be "good" people because they follow an honor code. There's a "purity" to that, an shameless honesty that draws people in similar to how some people feel about Oberyn and Jaime. And it especially is very attractive to people who have quite a bit of shame themselves over love and sex (for whatever reason, religious shame, queer shame, female shame for sexuality and desiring a stronger partner even anyway) and are (at first or never) inclined to not to try to ennoble it but are lonely and looking for a story of a strong connection/ride or die.

That loyalty to Rhaenyra is a "flaw" that some men in the fandom never forgave GRRM for or are even aware of or accept as true.

Rhaenyra similarly could have been a 100% typical or ideal princess--either way, people wouldn't have liked her or found something to say was a damning "flaw" to say she deserved her fate-- and in some ways, she was. Loved wearing luxurious things and showing off her beauty, beautiful, fertile. But she's inplacably different from the ideal of Andal patriaechy because she is a dragon-rider of a "foreign" people-descent and has magic running through her. She also is not either bahaviorall/sexually demure nor sexually ashamed and self restrictive.

Rhaenyra "replaced" Daemon as heir, yet instead of really planning her downfall and committing to his ire against Viserys (yes after being forced away), he appears accept his subordinate position towards the middle and end of his life, even before they marry and fully commitsd to her without losing his own...je-ne-sais-quoi. Despite her loneliness and the surrounding doubt around her for being a female heir, Rhaenyra never seemed to seriously lose her belief in her right to occupy that sort of space and never demurred like some other female characters we (pre-the rise of YA fiction and the Capable+Alluring MC Girl/Woman) were familiar with WHILE not being that kind or good a person (the trope of a Steel-Under-Silk strong, Lady usually has the Lady be good or kind of selfless, sometimes to the point of self effacement).

Both had a sort of belief in themselves to a degree and under contexts that put off both readers and their own contemporaries--for different reasons...sometimes the same ones. that sort of symmetry is very appealing BECAUSE OF AND UNDER THE CONTEXT of a world and system (unequally, but the closest it's gotten and could get).

It's a very heady and attractive dynamic.

The argument of "for the time/environment", I think, is for use of when we have people claim that some characters like Ceryse Hightower, Larra Rogare, Daemon, Viserys I are p*dophiles...when we have Robert Baratheon, Craster, Walder Frey, etc. right there. that they go out of their way to mess up children or teens bec they are genuinely want them for their teenhood/childhood. The childness (full knowledge of childness) is exactly what they (p*dos) aim for.

Sure, none of these characters do not and cannot have the exact same moral systems or values as real moderns (sometimes Western people) do...because they simply do not have that framework to live on and through. So automatically saying a character is a p*dp or a groomer can be hasty and inaccurate.

SOMETIMES (again, Walder, Craster, Robert, these were certified p*dos).

It requires one to think about what a groomer or a p*do really is. Which I've squared down to the person wanting to prey on what is known to them and everyone around them as a "child" or "too young" that is socially excluded from every practice and dynamic of sex and romance that adults are expected to participate with each other, and not with said child (or simply manipulate them away from their security/non-security to do so) because the "child" cannot develop psychologically/physically when said adults interrupt their development and/or make them think is one thing when it is the other.

Characters like Daemon, Viserys, etc. do not try to seek out what is recognized as "children" or "childlike" (and the "young maidens" or virgins the text states weirdly juxtaposes the lack of Daemon continuing said behavior into his adulthood, which true groomers/p*dos always do). All this is strictly against the idea of him being a "groomer", even though like other men and a few women, he gets into something with 14/15 yr old Rhaenyra...

HOWEVER, it is true that patriarchies tend to apply sex-purity values in ways that inevitably encourage attentions on teens (as these are the closest) AND this ALSO doesn't mean that GRRM wasn't/isn't trying to say that this is still a wrong thing for 111 A.C. Daemon to have done and that it wasn't screwy. (I think this is kinda what also "saves" it for some people, that the narrative acknowledges this particular crazy as crazy).

And just as with Dany and Drogo and the age revealed at her first pregnancy--even with Dany having been a bridal slave to Rhaenyra's princess and thus presenting a more visceral stake the latter doesn't have quite--determining how one sees Dany's regard for Drogo as blatant victim-mindset. For Daemyra, though, it's still not exactly the same and it's just that there isn't much for a claim, story-wise not life wise, of blatant you-know-what-it's.

There are about 4 main theories as to why Daemon of the bk does what he does with Rhaenyra:

he wanted to get back at Viserys for all the years of his ignorance and the recent event of his shipping Mysaria off only her her to lose what would have been Daemon's first kid (so a denial of person, position, and his own heir/family when he seemed to start trying to make himself after a long series of war in the Stepstones, also trying to make some "glory" for himself that Viserys--for him--keeps preventing or ruining)

he thought that the issues of succession Rhaenyra or even Viserys might have with the burgeoning greens, esp Otto, would be better handled if he forced Viserys to have him and Rhaenyra marry and combine lineages...tag him in, coach, he's been ready and you're not doing the job right, so let me in (ironically, I think this is very Visenya-coded...no one is going to be as competent and dedicated as me...just [ugh] with all the male trappings and privilege that shaped his...all that) -- a burgeoning storm they all had to prepare for, and he has to be there for them to survive -- he sees Rhaenyra at court surrounded by greens and is so offended he's even more determined--some might read "desperate"--to handle things even with such little...grace, shall we say

he was "tailoring" and "preparing" Rhaenyra to become more like the wife/partner that would make him most happy and rationalized that he would pay her back with his "hand" and sword, bc they were the best bet for their house...yeah...

when he got there and saw Rhaenyra in her "marriageable" state, he became attracted to her and similar to Laena and the duel, decided to "risk" the damage to his own rep...without letting himself think of the possible damage to Rhaenyra

or, ALL OF THE ABOVE...SOME OF THE ABOVE

Whatever Daemon did with her/to her (sex, kissing, near-sex, groping, etc., we don't know what happened but I think it was either sex or something that looked like it would definitely lead to that), it wasn't based on a habit and intention of straight up p. More so him being very selfish, continuing the pattern of Targ men Targ-menning against their female counterparts. Using Rhaenyra against Viserys, putting his foot down, whatever.

Therefore he was still abusing his experience and relation with her, the "child-not-child-who-should-have-been-seen-as-a-child-but-wasn't-bc-society-and-patriarchal-selfishness/advantage".

So I don't fault or perfectly disagree with people who say "groomer!" After all, their priority is not allowing other crazy people or out already-male-scorched world in further footholding for nonsense in the real world. Can't call them stupid or morally incorrect for that or being concerned. There's a child that should have been separated from these practices of sex with adults, after all.

However, I still think there's a misunderstanding of what's being conveyed by the text versus what such a thing would be in real life (Watsonian vs Doylist) AND we can't stop ourselves form writing or showing even the odd and taboo or genuinely concerning stuff when there's something to be shown/told.

It changed to what it needed to be, became what was its potential, AND Rhaenyra was set to marry someone else (before the confirmation that it was always gonna be Laenor, and she didn't know it was him until last minute) who she would likely never be able to trust because of her position, men, yada yada. Might as well be someone she cared/trusted more than anyone else for her entire life and we know would not go out of his way, even shift for someone he thought was "worthy", and whoo-boy, was Rhaenyra "worthy" to Daemon. Again, refer to the doomed narrative.

Now Daemon here is so not a good guy if he:

was willing to use his own about-to-married-off-and-subiect-to-purity-politics-standard-that-could-affect-her-reputation both as a girl/woman-as-a-female-heir niece in this way, even if it was after Viserys basically caused him and Mysaria to lose their first kid and came after years of Viserys basically ignoring Daemon--Daemon's eyes, bk and show--in favor of a man who could never hope to be as loyal as Daemon....IN FACT, THIS PROVES HE WAS NEVER THE "GOOD" GUY (I'm yelling at some fics)

prioritizes "sameness" and it comes off as arrogance--"only people like me can handle all this"...however, he'd be not totally incorrect (just annoying to some, charming to others, a little bit of both and feeding-into-each-other for others-others). He's not only a person who grew up, like both female and male nobles, value having the highest classed and prestigious person as a potential mate even if it may contradict "obedience" and he like others wishes to, he also. Again, the appeal of SYMMETRY. And sameness (albeit, in lesser degrees) does have an importance in how many people define what their ideal partner is. Not have the same hobbies or ways and color of dress, but values. Which Rhaenyra and Daemon have the potential of to the max.

If a potential partner's "worth" to be of a certain category or class...but it's fun to see shamelessness at a point (the limit is of course potential grooming) AND such shamelessness works to, again, support said female character bc it's a great pair to loyalty, which Rhaenyra needs a lot of and assurance of from.

And, no, I don't think she got enough of that from Harwin for all that she did love him (if they did become lovers...but I know you know they were, come on now). Those two had to hide; Rhaenyra's not a hider, not where it doesn't concern her kids' safety at least.

Ironically those assurances come from the reversed--or at least done a little topsy turvy--familial relations, feudal constraints, AND the reality of Targaryens being both a part of this society but also not really on part because of their dragons/innate magicness but also because they are the ruling family.

They are apart from most people around them and find more things in common between themselves, us against the world (yes, in the bk, too); isolated always--unless you're like Rhaena, Dreamfyre's 1st rider, who could and did find female friends everywhere and discovered more freedom and comfort in them through their woman-ness than anyone in her family...but even then, she was more or less emotionally isolated just by being such a woman and a Targ, and the male stink still manages to encroach its way in through Androw Farman and the love she had for Androw's father/her lover's love for said Androw. and as royals, they are by social definition not in physical proximity, thus not as easier seen as any more than political figures/leaders. I mean, sure, we might say "boo hoo", and we'd not be totally wrong, but there is still an effect of treating people not like people that humans have never been able to rein in, and it's important to how the Targs handled many things and were perceived, thus how they responded--queue Jaehaerys I. When we especially talk about the costs to oneself and to how others treat you under the nonphysical protections of power. Whether for good or ill.

Contrast to Jaehaerys and Alysanne, who, thought GRRM notes as one of the greatest pairs, also end up separated by Alysanne's & Jaehaerys' fights over their children's safety and places in the succession, with the obvious running line of it going back to misogyny for the sake of assimilating/holding power instead of using it for making the said society a little better/a lot better.

Contrast to Daario and Daenerys (yes, yes, why would I compare PoV character's observations of a person vs a history book, we get it), Daemyra/RoguesDelight has Daemon knowing and giving more suggestion of longevity bc it's suggested in the text that he had access to the most intimate stirrings of Rhaenyra's head (final letter at Maidenpool as well as all I said above) in a way Daario never did or wanted to with Dany. Oh, of course Daario knew Dany loved her people, was lonely, was all that and the 3rd; but I trump that up to be his observation of what she needed and wanted so he could indulge in being with such a woman and profit from it. Even though he wasn't exactly terrible or whatever, or impatient. This is far from Dany's fault, tbc. Daario is gonna Daario. But, as one person kind brilliantly explained about Dany being a goddess in Twitter:

Part of her struggles is w being dehumanized as a symbol of power but she constantly subverts that by placing the weight of her responsibility/influence into liberating ppl.

Jaehaerys I sorta sets himself and his later scions, by contrast, even with it having had the desired effect of getting people off his back about sibling incest. So does Aegon I, tbh, when while it left the Targs the ability to adapt to their necessities concerning succession, his and his sons leaving it open to duking-it-out...then Aegon named heir over Rhaena...made way for the first stone against women in their house....those most necessarily it seems (after the Dance).

Anyway, they were pretty solid until Rhaenyra's kids started falling like dominoes and were caught in a deceit.

I remember an ask I got once about Daemon showing Rhaenyra explicit imagery in S1E4, where anon said that him doing so proves he is a groomer in the show, where Rhaenyra is 19 instead of 14-15. An adult but just barely AND a lot of people hold that grooming--nonsexual, too--can happen to people to people as old as 34. Personally, I think that the latter is more general manipulation more than "grooming", but I digress and it doesn't really work for 18-20 year olds and up, who again, are practically teenagers.

But I brought up my misgivings about Daemon wanting to abuse children/children adjacent for its own sake already, and it's less evident in the show where the show makes it a point that he wanted Rhaenyra at most stages of her life (when again, she wouldn't be a child-child to them, scowl at GRRM, not me):

the beach scene in S1E7 with adult Rhaenyra, we all saw them heave for each other

we hear/see nothing of his messing with too-young girls after said marriage...the narrative implies he was likely imagining it as some "perfect" Valyrian bride...who happens to be around the same age as state as his niece (still problematic for all the implications of Rhaenyra's significance to him----both in the nature of sex work affecting women/girls AND we really didn't need to hear of that without proving how old those girls usually were to be so used like this as proxies…this is where I personally would have rolled my sorry self out) -> -> -> the probable immediate recall of Jorah doing similar with Dany OR simply Mysaria's observation of this unconscious/repressed desire/teasing him and show!Daemon never having actually done these things -> -> -> of course this could be due to any number of reasons, like his frustrations with Viserys manifesting in looking for a companion in the closest person possible more than that sort of desire

Mysaria: What troubles you, my Prince? I could bring in another. Perhaps a maiden. I have several. I could even arrange one with silver hair. [pause]

This included language of "could" and "perhaps" and "even" (as if this were a thing that she knows it's out of the ordinary) plus her solicitousness to meet his silence and disappeared enthusiasm indicates that show!Daemon was not in the habit of messing w/very young sex workers as bk!Daemon is rumored and told (A Question of Succession):

"and was said to have an especial fondness for deflowering maidens"

Language is important these types of documents. We're given an entire description of his philandering and the contrast of "he sampled" (definite, final, statement-to-not-be-doubted), but there is room with "was said" for Daemon to not have gone around this particular act of seeking out virgin girls. Like how one would say now "I heard such and such also went pulling people's pants down after Marcus saw him go into a strip club" or "people say that Marsha went to Payless for her prom shoes".

Active ("he sampled") vs passive voice ("he[...]was said") can be pretty important to indicate what def happened vs what people believed and could have happened but was never proven. But what do I know, I'm just a probably too-biased Daemyra shipper (this genuinely was not to be snarky, really, you can take or leave my points).

END

For me, it's more when Rhaenyra & Daemon both get older that they shine and I "approve" or really most enjoy Rouges Delight (bk ship name some have taken to call Daemyra) whatever you want to name and distinguish the couple. (SHOWWISE, I prefer their younger interations [pre E6, S1] not bc Emma is a bad actor--they re not, they're just underutilized and Rhaenyra is written so...terribly that I can never get as into it...I liked Daemyra when they reconciled in S2, for example, but I hated how they got there and not bc of "the ship is sinking" but bec it genuinely was not written well and depended on diminishing both characters). I'm not, however, out here trying to say that anyone else should love this ship, this couple, this story just as much as I don't really mind people not getting into GRRM's writing.

The 111 A.C. issue, there is a certain odd quality it of being obviously out of line and manipulative...while evidence of being a convergence of long-held tension, a beginning towards an inevitable outcome years down the line. SYMMETRY and good writing.

I suspect that part of the appeal for some is that push-pull of the delight of "matching freaks and the moral conflict of "but....he's her uncle and he's 2x her age and/or they probably did things when she was way too young", but that's a whole other thing. It keeps people engaged and is perfectly symptomatic of that quality of medievalesque/historical fiction, sure, but bc humans love to play with taboos in fiction...to a certain point. (Personally, again, it is that later timeline that "saved" Daemon for me, as flawed as that may be.) They can indulge in the curiosity of the play of "what ifs" GRRM writes and the subsequent quandaries safely in fiction without getting openly judged & misunderstood for wanting such stories.

Sometimes we "play" too close to the sun, though, I admit.

So unless someone's gone off the deep end trying to say that they wouldn't be bothered by a 15 yr old and her 2x older uncle smooching in real life, or try to deny that Daemon was performing, it really doesn't discomfit me that much in the grander scheme of things.

And at the same time, again, I can't blame HotD for uping Rhaenyra's age AND people for just not jiving or hating the ship just as there are those who cannot ever get into ASoIaF for the incessant (to them, too often unpunished by the narrative) incest even outside of the Targs alone. And I get how this is just not going to be enough or that he later is her strongest supporters is enough for a lot of people. But I do want the air cleared a bit and explain the position from where I'm standing. Could change, but I dunno about that.

Perhaps this all too biased a breakdown. I warned ya.

This is all in regards to shipping, of course. 😉 Anyway, watch out, there might be more freaks about you in your everyday life like Daemyra shippers, anon!

#daemyra #asoiaf shipping #canon shipping #rhaenyra and daemon #fire and blood characters #daemon's characterization #rhaenyra's characterization #fire and blood #asoiaf

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