#i don't mind at all that somebody translated it; i think it's neat

[yellowocaballero]

lies down on ground Will y'all fucking believe that I have been working nonstop on that fic JUST so I can get it out in time for pride month. If I've been disappeared it's because I'm a gay rights respecter who dattes my pride bayos or what the fuck ever.

Time to fucking CATCH UP ON ASKS.

Unrelated to that: is anybody here Vietnamese, and can you do me a favor?

What is this site? Is it, like, a Vietnamese Wattpad? I saw this translation originally on Wattpad, and I'm guessing (knowing Wattpad.) it was scraped from here. Just curious. Google refuses to translate the page for some reason, so I'm having problems exactly figuring it out.

[waters-and-the-wilde]

okay so one of the fun and neat things about going on T and shifting into boy mode is. i'm hot now??

it's not that i've changed that much or was dealing with negative self-image stuff, like i was already the prettiest boy you've ever seen before i got on T. back in girl(?) mode i dodged the worst of the usual body image issues due to a confluence of factors, such as

a.) enough early messaging to the effect of 'hey trying to make girls be attractive all the time is kinda fucked up' and me going 'yeah! that is fucked up! fuck being pretty'

b.) just. extraordinary amounts of asexuality. and with that came the primary incentive to go 'oh fuck i don't want to be attractive. dear god get that away from me. engage the Somebody Else's Problem Fields to maximum capacity!!'

c.) 'but also hey i've got great hair and look dashing in a waistcoat, i just do it for me you know? i'm like if a vain creature spent a lot of time scrabbling about in a tree hollow'

like i felt like i looked fine as a girl(?) and i didn't want to deal with the social baggage of being pretty (TM) or hot (TM) and clearly all that took so much effort anyway so it was super easy to just. not. although I liked wearing fancy costumes so in a lot of ways it's easier to look back on like. girl formalwear moments and be like 'oh yeah. that's drag. i was in drag.' without getting hit with the dysphoria stick. and the moments i felt really good about myself, like, 'flirt with myself in the mirror' moments were. boy drag. but i wasn't going to call myself hot. (also probably an autism thing, bc The Neurotypicals and the CisHetAlloNormies love to take the things you say literally and contort them to fit their assumptions so i couldn't risk them conflating 'hot' with 'sexually available'.) i was 'allowed' to be hot when i was dressed as jack harkness but under all other circumstances i didn't want that and wasn't willing to risk being thought of in those terms. never mind nipping it in the bud i was gonna salt the earth first.

which, maybe was a little overkill, i've got a bit of a tendency there but tbh i'm incredibly grateful for how much that kept the background society noise from getting the worst of its hooks into me. like the rampant asexuality and baby's first genderqueer shenanigans did me so many favors for maintaining a neutral-to-positive outlook on my relationship with my body. especially when it came to keeping prospective attention at bay so any time someone actually tried to ask me out it was just like. reaction gif of those girls with the red cups at the party. how did you get past security.

didn't hurt that i didn't want to hang in the kind of environments that made a big deal about appearances slash recognized it's rude to be a dick about peoples' appearances, but also there was probably a certain amount of baseline white/able-bodied/skinny privilege that i wasn't really aware of at the time, and lately i've been suspecting that contributes to other people trying to reinforce their idea of my place in 'the girl club'. something something same coin as those standards that also exclude and deny cis women for not measuring up.

recent years it's been weird because it sort of hasn't mattered how obvious i think the transmasc cues are, how much i look in the mirror and go '!!! hell yeah look at that handsome little guy!' because it just wouldn't translate. there was just a lot of 'yes fine i know i know i kNoW what people see when they look at me. it is still weird to me but i have to maKe Allowances for our soCiAL coNText riGht?? just because i got sick of being low-effort nonbinary and decided I wanted a turn at the blue hair and pronouns thing doesn't mean that other people aren't stuck in their assumptions. yes i know who i am but i have to wear a little sign and point it out to people and most of the time they don't notice or remember and if i'm lucky they'll wring their hands and get all conCerNed about having oFfEnded me instead of telling me they don't think they should have to make the effort of trying.' and don't get me wrong i love meeting cishetnormies who are cool and onboard and supportive or just baseline chill about it, but there are a lot of them where there's this definite undercurrent of knowing they're just humoring you and it itches like a shirt with the bad textures.

anyway it's not as if i didn't know i built in a bunch of defensiveness around knowing I was being perceived female and trying to control for the implications of that. (it's been a perennial topic of household conversation bc sibling and sibling-in-crime are a bit more settled into their own flavors of genderqueer especially in terms of dealing with other peoples' perceptions and i've still been grappling with a lot of 'i need to look GAY i need to look QUEER i need to look LIKE A BOY I need to look COMPLETELY UNAVAILABLE. do NOT perceive me. ENGAGE 'SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM FIELD' to MAXIMUM CAPACITY. i am JUST SOME GUY. FUCK i dress like a 12-YEAR-OLD and people think i'm in HIGH SCHOOL but they STILL DON'T THINK I'M A BOY' 'buddy hey do you think maybe you're overthinking the way people perceive you and trying to accommodate for that instead of being yourself' 'I KNOW BUT HEY'

i think starting to working in a much more public retail job kind of threw it into sharp relief because before I wasn't doing that on purpose, i just got so used my Whole Deal just sort of automatically flying under the radar. and suddenly every day i'm having to deal with other peoples' assumptions. and every day i'm still kicking and yowling and biting because all i'm getting is other people trying to shove me into a box. they see a girl-shaped person and it doesn't matter about the collared button-down shirt and what's usually a boy's name on the apron, lol what's a pronoun button, she's young and skinny and cute and white and that's what the quirky young ladies do these days because androgyny is trendy right??

(do not get me started on how women are not allowed to age and how trans guys get infantilized and how i keep getting clocked as much younger than i am, what does a guy have to do to get treated like a goddamn grown-up ah fuck i gotta show up with healthy boundaries and self-respect probably because i'm not about to stop dressing like a twelve year old because i am fighting for my life to retain my youthful whimsy on this godforsaken bitch of an earth)

and then. not much changes but I change. six weeks on T and i'm like ugh nothing's happening it's fine it's fine it's gonna be gradual it's gonna take its own time. and then two weeks later, holy shit. the goddamn second i unlocked the slightest bit of facial hair and boom. 'not my fault you think i'm a girl. skill issue. oh shit i look GOOD'

they (the charming and helpful transmascs who make youtube videos) said T won't just up and fix your confidence issues, and yeah okay they're right because something something gotta find that in yourself or whatever, but also. they were right when they said it doesn't not fix your confidence issues.

now. sometimes it's even more fucking jarring when it's easier for me to forget that it still doesn't always translate. last week some middle-aged guy tried to ask me out while i was at work (it was a short and not ill-mannered interaction but pretty obviously 'area man has interacted with a Young Lady for five minutes and decided to go for it' way) and it was like. The FUCK? now?? like. sir. babygirl. you are not only barking up the wrong tree you are not even in a forest right now. this is in fact. a lumber department. 'you look lovely' my ass i am the grubbiest little dweeb you have ever seen and these aprons flatter nobody, not even me. who the fuck do you think you're trying to kid. also i'm a boy. no sparing your feelings no laughing it off no 'easy mistake to make' i hope you feel super awkward about this. not my fault you tried to pick up a grown-ass man with a mustache. i don't care if you were polite about it you're old enough to be my dad and this is my workplace. i am once again asking how the fuck did you get past security.

(work-life gender is totally a thing too. at work i am 'actually a boy but thanks', i'm they/he and uh him actually when people use 'her', i am just some guy, fuck you i am a grown-ass man stop telling me how to do my job boomer. and then i get to go home and be a creature and a weird little man (nonbinary) and i'm suddenly more comfortable in a bunch of the girl(?) shirts i had stopped wearing and i'm looking forward to approaching more of a queer guy flavor of femininity on my own time)

it's weird too in that materially very little has changed, like it's been all of four months, i sound like i'm getting over a cold and my face can do a new party trick. it's all still mine, it's just that maybe it feels a little bit more mine now.

anyway the point of all this was that. i couldn't be hot because i couldn't act like i was hot because i couldn't envision a version of events where people didn't make this my problem. and suddenly I'm Just Hot Now. because I Am. like it's just a fact now it's an immutable law of the universe. all those posts about 'i'm transgenedner and sexy' and i was like 'love that for you, couldn't be me tho' and now i'm transgedener and sexy. am I going to do anything about it?? god no. i'm gonna make this everybody else's problem.

(be funny if i had a slut era in an asexual way but one thing at a time perhaps)

[salvatoreschool]

'Legacies' EP Brett Matthews Teases How Characters Face Their Demons in Film Noir Episode (Exclusive)

It's an episode you do not want to miss!

Titled "There's a Place Where the Lost Things Go," Thursday's Legacies sees Hope (Danielle Rose Russell), Josie (Kaylee Bryant), Lizzie (Jenny Boyd), MG (Quincy Fouse) and Rafael (Peyton Alex Smith) transported to a fabulous film noir world.

In order to deal with all their recent traumas -- including Kai Parker's return and a black magic-filled Josie -- Emma (Karen David) makes them participate in a group simulation where they confront their conflicts head-on or risk the game's consequences. However, like most situations, things don't go as planned and the students come face-to-face with something they never imagined.

ET caught up with executive producer Brett Matthews, who also co-wrote the episode with Mark Ryan Walberg, where he shared the inspiration for the episode, why Professor Vardemus (Alexis Denisof) has returned and teased if there could ever be something more between Hope and Rafael.

ET: What was the inspiration for this episode?

Brett Matthews: It really goes back to a class I took in college at Wesleyan University... Film noir is a genre that will stay with me forever and is something very near and dear to my heart that I never really thought the right opportunity would present itself in this way to explore. I'm really glad it did. It's like an itch I had since I graduated college that I finally got to scratch.

What will surprise fans most about it? Is this a one-off episode or how will this push the narrative forward?

We don't really do one-offs. We do a lot of format break episodes, but we only do them when it's really the best way to explore the characters' journeys and the things that all of our characters are going through as they come to a head. A format break episode or a special episode will do that better than a conventional one. That's when the time's right. So absolutely we are telling this episode because it's where our characters are at coming off of [episode] 12 and 13, and really traumatic events. It's a group therapy exercise that kind of goes awry. It always starts and ends with the characters and they got us into it and the discoveries and revelations that they experience in the film noir world will come to influence them on the other side, when we're back to our normally scheduled program.

Is there a reason everyone has their distinct characters in this episode? Is there more than meets the eye with their film noir roles?

Yeah, everybody is sort of at a point in their emotional journey for the season, where they have some things they have to face, and the therapy sort of puts them in a role which allows them to make the discovery that their, sort of, person needs to learn from, move on and process. Film noir is a really good fit because it has all these tropes and archetypes and it was really fun. Mark Walberg and I, who I wrote the episode with, who's our script coordinator here, really got those characters into those different types based on where they are coming from and where they were headed for the rest of the season. That's really the "why" of who's the movie starlet, who's the gumshoe and who's this. I got to say, it was really fun to put Quincy Fouse's MJ sort of front and center in an episode. That was a really neat opportunity. We really enjoyed to be able to do that.

We see Alexis Denisof's Professor Vardemus back, I thought he was gone? Am I wrong? What's his role in this?

[Ryan] Clark took Vardemus' identity at the beginning of the season and [this episode] sort of gives us the answer to where Vardemus has been this whole season, which is his mind has been locked in the therapy box and his body has been stowed in the school. And inadvertently, the kids end up setting him free and we finally look forward to getting to know the character of Vardemus as Vardemus, and not someone pretending to be him. [We will learn] who he actually is, a scholar with a bit of an edge, who's lived a really interesting life, but has a really great amount of knowledge to share with Alaric and other educators at the Salvatore School. We just really love Alexis and what he did with the character, so we're excited to begin exploring this new facet and get to know the actual Rupert Vardemus.

So he will be sticking around for more episodes?

Yeah, we hope so. We obviously have a lot of characters to service and that's always the hard part about running a television show, there's never enough time. But Vardemus is just a character [we love], and Alexis is one of the kindest, most professional actors you hope to work with in this business. [Creator] Julie [Plec] and I really love what he's doing and he is a character you will see pop up here and there, and we would love to explore more in the future.

Landon is not in this episode, but we see Rafael and Hope together. How much tension is there between them and is this foreshadowing them getting closer in the future?

I think that Raf's takeaway from this episode is that he is part of a very deep mystery that disturbs him and that he needs to get to the bottom of, and obviously feels uncomfortable enough about it that he is lying to people about it. And so, that is sort of what's forefront in Rafael's mind, but he does have this deep relationship with Hope and a super neat and profound relationship with Landon. Both of those characters will help him unwrap and get to the bottom of, and hopefully solve, the situation he's found himself in.

We've seen Josie, Kaylee Bryant, just come out of her shell this season, from a sweet, kind and shy girl to this badass, evil villain. How has it been working with and getting that dynamic range from her?

Kaylee is a wonderful actress and it's not real hard. Dark Josie really makes a lot of sense because it's just that repressed part of the character she usually plays. Josie is a selfless character and puts others above herself, and I think it's a very human thing to have that part that says, "What about me?" or somebody always putting off their own wants and desires, and that often comes to a head and people often snap. That's a little bit of what she's going through. So I think for her it's probably a little more hand and glove than it would be for somebody coming from the outside in because our actors really do inhabit their characters and live in their skin year-round in a way another person doesn't. I think it made a lot of sense to her and then to translate that to the physicality and the surface menace of it all. I think she's doing a great job with it.

How was the cast's reaction when they saw this script for this episode and started getting into their wardrobe?

I think they always enjoy the format break episodes because they allow them to really just do something fun and exciting, and I feel like the whole crew feels that way about it as well. Like Julie said, when I gave her the script, she's like, "They're not going to know what film noir is," and I said, "Well, I don't know if it's that large of a problem." But we did pull a couple landmark film noir episodes that we thought really encapsulated the genre and everybody watched them and did their homework and very quickly, whether they had prior experience with the genre or not, understood what it was and really gave it 110 percent, as did our director Mike Karasick. But the cast, like they usually do, gave it their all and made it shine. I'm sure it was fun for them because of wardrobe and they got to be in another world for an episode and those are always fun for everybody.

Will fans get to see another themed episode like this in the future?

We'll have another one or two over the course of the season. We're doing a really big, exciting musical episode this year, as we try to do one every year. So we're working on that one now and that's something that sort of revisits our history as a franchise. We're very excited about that. So you can definitely look forward to that one and seeing all your favorite characters singing and dancing and all that good stuff.

Last question, both Ian Somerhalder and Michael Malarkey told ET that they would love to work on Legacies. Ian wanted to direct an episode, while Michael wouldn't mind reprising his role as Enzo. What are your thoughts?

I love both of those guys! They are part of our family and like we say to all our members of our family, the door on Legacies is always open. All they gotta do is give me a call and I will certainly, always take that call. I'll always be interested. In terms of characters, you want to make sure that you have enough, you know, like, Vampire Diaries and The Originals, they had their own endings. So just on a character level, it's always a case-by-case basis to make sure that they're respecting the integrity of our cast, but god, if there's a way to do any of those things, we're always inclined to do them. It's just the people you know and the relationships you form and that makes up for the long hours and all these things. We're very lucky people to have worked with so many wonderful, talented artists and we would love to work with them all again in the future.

Legacies airs Thursdays at 9 p.m. on The CW.

[lesliepump]

Podcast #147: Accessible Justice, with Haben Girma

In this episode, we talk with deaf-blind civil rights lawyer and accessibility advocate Haben Girma about accessible justice and how designing courts, law firms, and the attorney-client relationship for people with disabilities can increase access to justice for everyone.

Haben Girma

The first deaf-blind person to graduate from Harvard Law School, Haben Girma is a civil rights lawyer and she advocates for equal opportunities for people with disabilities. President Obama named her a White House Champion of Change, and Forbes recognized her in its 30 Under 30 list. Haben travels the world consulting and public speaking, teaching clients the benefits of fully accessible products and services. She is a talented storyteller who helps people frame difference as an asset.

You can follow Haben on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Thanks to Ruby Receptionists and Clio for sponsoring this episode!

Listen & Subscribe

To listen to the podcast, just scroll up and hit the play button (or click the link to this post if you are reading this by email).

To make sure you don’t miss an episode of The Lawyerist Podcast, subscribe now in iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast player. Or find out about new episodes by subscribing to our email newsletter.

Transcript

Speaker 1: Welcome to The Lawyerist Podcast with Sam Glover and Aaron Street. Each week Lawyerist brings you advice and interviews to help you build a more successful law practice in today's challenging and constantly changing legal market. Now here are Sam and Aaron. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Hi, I'm Sam Glover. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> I'm Aaron Street. This is episode 147 of The Lawyerist Podcast, part of the Legal Talk Network. Today we're talking with deaf/blind civil rights lawyer and accessibility advocate Haben Girma about accessible justice. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Today's podcast is sponsored by Ruby Receptionist and its smart, charming receptionists who are perfect for small firms. Visit Call Ruby dot com slash Lawyerist to get a risk-free trial with Ruby. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> Today's podcast is also sponsored by Clio Legal Practice Management Software. Clio makes running your law firm easier. Try it today for free at Clio dot com. Sam, we had the privilege of seeing Haben keynote the Clio Cloud Conference in New Orleans this fall and instantly knew that we needed to have her on the podcast to talk more in-depth about some of these topics. We've talked a little bit in the past about accessibility as it relates to law firm websites and client experience and intake. I think it'd be worth spending a couple of minutes here before the interview refreshing how practices in accessibility can relate to better design overall for everyone. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Yeah. Haben and I talk a little bit about this. I think it's really worth emphasizing. Microsoft has a theory on this that they employ in their design. I think it's really aware of just the advantages that you can have by designing for people who are disabled. The theory is that people who are disabled have more challenges moving through the world day to day that they've already solved most of the problems that the rest of us have. In designing things for people who are disabled you're probably solving problems for everyone else too. That turns out to be true again and again and again. You're listening to this through the medium of a variety of devices that were all built with accessibility first in mind. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> Absolutely, whether that's your iPhone with a whole set of accessibility features or on the website. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Phones, keyboards, microphones. All of that stuff was built for disabled people first. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> We transcribe every episode of this podcast so there is an alternate text version of it. Those might help people with disabilities access the content in this podcast but the reality is regardless of whether you have a disability or not you might prefer the text transcript of this and it makes it easier for Google to know what's in this podcast so that if you're searching for this topic it makes it easier to find. Lots of ancillary benefits to pursuing things that are good for some people that make them good for lots of people. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I want to say this again and again. It is not that difficult. I know that it feels daunting because it feels like you're trying to put accessibility on things or you need to go out and reach out to a consultant who will make your stuff accessible. Really, it's just about the stuff you ought to be doing anyway. In hiring somebody to optimize your on-page SEO for your website you're probably also nailing 98%, 99% of the things that you need to do to make it accessible. It's stuff you ought to be doing anyway and it's not that hard. I think once you dig into it you'll find that it's a lot less difficult than you maybe worried it is. There's no reason to delay. Make it so. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> Today's conversation with Haben is not an SEO conversation but it's fascinating how a conversation about how to make justice more accessible for people with disabilities can have SEO and marketing implications and ... <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> It's super neat. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> It's a really cool topic. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Here's my conversation with Haben. Just at the beginning we're going to leave in the delay while Haben's translator types my questions for her to respond. I just want you to get a feel for the way the conversation flowed and then we'll start cutting out the typing so that it flows a little more quickly. Here's the conversation. Okay. Go ahead and introduce yourself. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> My name is Haben Girma. I work as a disability rights lawyer, public speaker, and author. I teach organizations about the value of disability. Disability can be an asset to a community, an organization. It's a matter of learning about how to be accessible and what are the different things we can do as a community to make sure our websites, our apps, our facilities are welcoming to everyone. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Haben, thank you so much for being with us on the podcast today. Maybe we should start by talking about how we talked about disability. What are some of the words that we should be using when we need to distinguish between people who are disabled and people who aren't and just discussing disability in general? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> The words I prefer using are disabled and non-disabled. A lot of people ... Well, some people are not comfortable using the word disability but I'm comfortable using the word disability. The word disability for me is associated with civil rights because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and other civil rights protections that use the word disability. Maybe in this podcast we can use disability and non-disabled. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> That sounds good. I'll do that. On your website you have a frequently asked questions that starts with some messages that we should avoid when talking about people who have disabilities. I want you to tell us a little bit more about those messages and why we should avoid them. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> There's several messages to keep in mind. One message is that when we talk about disability we should avoid trying to judge people with disabilities as existing to help non-disabled people feel grateful that they don't have disabilities. Often stories in the press will describe people with disabilities as inspiring non-disabled people to stop complaining. Like, "You have no excuse. Disabled person did this. Therefore, non-disabled people should feel shame that they're not able to do this." That's not fair. That's disrespectful. It's still stigmatizing a group when you're using them to shame another group. I don't want disability to be used to inspire shame in anyone. The interesting thing about the disability community it's the largest minority group and it's a group that anyone can join at any time. Our bodies are always changing. As we grow older change is a natural part of growing older. At every stage in our life we deserve dignity, inclusion, and access to everything. It's really, really important to respect those of us who are different. Rather than categorizing us as an other and stigmatizing we should instead be welcoming to everyone because it's not really us versus them. We're all going to change. We're all going to be different at some point. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> It sounds like part of the danger is in thinking that disability is something unlucky that happens to just a few people when really you could almost look at it as a spectrum that we all sit somewhere on it. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Exactly. There are actually a lot of people with disability. In the United States there are about 57 million Americans with disabilities. Throughout the world there are about 1.3 billion people with disabilities. That's a significant population. When companies choose to be inclusive they get to tap into this large market. It's good business to be inclusive because you get more customers, a larger audience. That means more business, more revenue in the long run. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> When we talk about people with disabilities we're talking about I think roughly a fifth of the population, which is a huge chunk. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Exactly. We may also be talking about our future selves. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I think, though, a lot of people who don't think of themselves as having disabilities or who don't fall into that don't really understand how to empathize with the problems faced by people with disabilities in just moving around the world. Maybe you could tell us a little about your journey to becoming a lawyer so that we understand how that has played out in the law school and law experience that you've had. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> I am deaf/blind. Most of this world is not designed to be accessible for people who are deaf/blind. I faced many barriers. My disability is not a problem. The problem is the way the world is designed. People can choose to provide information in multiple formats or they can choose to provide information only in one format. People can choose to design a building to have ramps and elevators so that people who use wheelchairs have access or they could choose to only have stairs and deny access to people who use wheelchairs. When there are barriers it's not the disability that's the problem. The problem is the design and the choices that people make. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I really like that way of thinking about it. Thanks for that clarification. The world is a design problem and we've only designed it for some of the population. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Exactly. Most schools are not accessible. I was very, very lucky. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area, which happens to be the heart of the disability rights movement. The city of Berkeley was one of the first cities to have curb cuts so that wheelchair users can independently move from sidewalk to sidewalk and cross streets and travel around a city. A lot of disability rights access changes have been first in the San Francisco Bay Area. I grew up here so I've benefited from many of these changes and I've benefited from having teachers and going to schools that valued inclusion. I had people telling me, "Yes, you can." I had people getting me all the materials I need in accessible formats. I had access to school. I was able to learn math, science, English. If I had grown up two hours outside the Bay Area in other parts of California or in a different state in the United States I probably would not have been able to get an education and go to college and definitely not go to law school. I know other deaf/blind students in California who missed part of elementary and middle school because the school refused to provide real materials or they refused to provide interpreters. The parents and students spent all their energy trying to advocate for access when they could have been learning. There's still so much unfairness here in the United States and limited access to materials. We need to change that. We need to make sure everyone has access to an education. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> One of the things that you've talked about before is just pointing out how many innovations that we all use came to us by way of designing for disability. What are some of your favorites? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> A lot of the technologies we use have been designed or inspired by people with disabilities. These stories are hidden. Very few people know about them. I think it would be beneficial to get these stories out there and have more people learn about the stories. One example is Vint Cerf, one of the fathers of the internet, is hearing impaired. Before the internet existed as we know it today, deaf people didn't have an easy way to communicate long distance. Vint Cerf found that by sending electronic messages, electronic mail, he could communicate long distance with people without having to strain to hear on the telephone. This benefits everyone. Email benefits everyone. Lots of people use email now. That's an example of how something that helps the disability community, a solution inspired by disability, often has benefits for the whole world. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I think when Vint Cerf was using the internet over the phone lines the phone lines were also designed by Alexander Graham Bell to overcome either his hard of hearing or his wife's difficulty in hearing, wasn't it? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Yes. Alexander Graham Bell did a lot of research to try to find ways to help deaf individuals communicate. Through that process he ended up developing a telephone. That's another example of how when you see disability as a design challenge and design solutions, often these solutions benefit the entire community. Investing in hiring people with disabilities and making your businesses accessible drives innovation. You're more likely to have a more innovative workforce if you include people with disabilities. People who think differently are more likely to come up with innovative solutions. Diverse teams are stronger teams. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> You've mentioned before that ... Maybe this is just what you're getting at but in designing things for people who have disabilities you're probably solving problems for the world at large by doing that. By designing your firm or your business around accessible principles you're probably building a more client-friendly firm for everyone. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Exactly. Wouldn't everyone want more clients? Wouldn't you want to be able to tap into the largest market possible? Another thing to keep in mind is that the Americans with Disabilities Act prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities. There are also other laws, state laws, and federal laws that prohibit discrimination against people with disabilities. Access is a right. It's really important for everyone to invest in inclusion. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> As a civil rights lawyer I imagine you have a much clearer window into some of the ways that access to justice is harder for people with disabilities. What are some of those challenges that those of us who aren't dealing with disabilities on a day to day basis may not be aware of? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Some of the barriers that exist in terms of access to justice are physical. Court houses, reading spaces that are not wheelchair accessible. Designing access to people who use wheelchairs. That could be lawyers who use wheelchairs, it could be judges who use wheelchairs, it could be clients who use wheelchairs. There is a lot of information online regarding legal services. Often information online is not accessible. The vast majority of websites and apps have access barriers. We need people in the legal field to ensure that their websites and digital information is provided in accessible formats. The web content accessibility guidelines teaches people how to design websites to be accessible. For mobile apps, Apple and Android accessibility guidelines teach people how to design them to be accessible. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Haben, have you had a chance to visit Lawyerist dot com? I'm wondering how well we've done. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> No. I haven't had a chance to visit it yet. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> We have tried to design it around those accessibility principles. It's not really that hard. It turns out that a lot of those things that you would do to build an accessible website are the kinds of things that Google would like you to do to optimize for search engines. It turns out Google is also deaf and blind. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> That's a good point. When people make their services accessible it increases content discoverability. Accessibility, some of the things that are necessary to do to make sure services are accessible online is to make sure you have text labels or images for buttons and when you increase the text associated with your content you also help with search engine optimization. Those are things to keep in mind. Access benefits you in multiple ways. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> One of the things you mentioned when I heard you speak at the Clio Cloud Conference is that you have to be aware of trying to put accessibility on your app or your website or your building at the end. Can you say a little bit more about why that's a problem to try and add accessibility? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> It's much harder to try to add accessibility at the end of the design process. It's much easier to plan for it from the start. An example we often use is to compare it to building a skyscraper. To ensure wheelchair access a skyscraper needs an elevator. It's much harder to build the skyscraper without an elevator. Then once you're done building the skyscraper to add an elevator afterwards. That's more costly, time-consuming, it takes more resources. It would be easier and cheaper to design the skyscraper to have an elevator. Put it in the plans. Same thing with digital accessibility. If you plan for it from the start it's easier to do. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> It sounds to me like accessibility needs to be part of the lens through which you see the world and see the design problems in your client service delivery methods? <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Yeah. Accessibility needs to be prioritized. Make sure your websites are accessible, have your designers look at the web content accessibility guidelines, and design the website based on those principles. It also helps with search engine optimization. Also, keep in mind that there have been a lot of lawsuits these past few years regarding digital accessibility. I worked on one of those cases. It was a case called [inaudible 00: 19: 49] of the Blind versus Script. Script is a digital library. Blind individuals wanted to be able to read books in the library. The way the library was designed created barriers for blind readers and blind readers couldn't read books on Script. Script tried to argue that the Americans with Disabilities Act doesn't apply to online businesses. The judge in that case looked at our arguments and agreed with us and said that the Americans with Disabilities Act does apply to online businesses like Script. Script and other online businesses need to adhere to the Americans with Disabilities Act. That was an exciting, rewarding case to be involved with. It's something that a lot of organizations need to keep in mind. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> A bit of a stick and a bit of a carrot. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Sam, can we take a few minutes break? My dog is crying. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Yes. Of course. This podcast is supported by Ruby Receptionists. As a matter of fact, Ruby answers our phones at Lawyerist and my firm was a paying Ruby customer before that. Here's what I love about Ruby. When I'm in the middle of something I hate to be interrupted. When the phone rings it annoys me and that often carries over into the conversation I have after I pick up the phone, which is why I'm better off not answering my own phone. Instead Ruby answers the phone and if the person on the other end asks for me a friendly, cheerful receptionist from Ruby calls me and asks if I want them to put the call through. It's a buffer that gives me a minute to let go of my annoyance and be a better human being during the call. If you want to be a better human being on the phone give Ruby a try. Go to Call Ruby dot com slash Lawyerist to sign up and Ruby will waive the $95 setup fee. If you aren't happy with Ruby for any reason you can get your money back during the first three weeks. I'm pretty sure you'll stick around but since there is no risk you might as well try. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> Imagine what you could do with an extra eight hours per week. You could invest in marketing your firm, you could spend more time helping clients in need, or you could catch your daughter's soccer game. That's how much time legal professionals save with Clio, the world's leading practice management software. With Clio tracking time, billing and matter management are fast and easy. Giving you more time to focus on what really matters. Clio is a complete practice management platform with plenty of tools and over 50 integrations to help you automate daily tasks such as document generation and court calendering. See how the right software can make it easier to manage your practice. Try Clio for free today at Clio dot com. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Sorry about that, Sam. Thank you for your patience. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Oh, of course. My dog is currently enjoying our freezing cold weather here in Minneapolis. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Wow. My dog ... When I lived in Boston we had to deal with snow. She hated snow. She would refuse to go to the bathroom when it started snowing because she didn't like snow on the ground. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> My dog is a husky so my challenge is getting him to even come inside. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Oh. Husky, those are beautiful. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> He is very fuzzy. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Did you grow up in Minnesota? <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I didn't. I grew up in Virginia, Panama, and the Dominican Republic. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Wow. That's a fun and exciting childhood. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> It sure was. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Did you go surfing in the DR? <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I was in second and third grade so I don't think I got past a boogie board level. It was very cool. It's one of my favorite places in the world. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Yeah. I went there for a wedding. It was amazing. The staff were super friendly. Often times when I go into a restaurant here in the United States the staff stare but they don't really ask questions. In the Dominican Republic I remember when I was in restaurants waiters would come up and ask, "What is this? What are you doing?" Not in a mean way. Just in a friendly, curious way. I just explained that it's a keyboard and braille display. People type on the keyboard, I read in digital braille. I let them try it. They typed in Spanish and I know basic Spanish. I studied Spanish in high school and college. [Foreign language 00: 24: 20] I was able to read that and respond back. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Very cool. It seems like one of the challenges is people who don't want to engage because they're shy or uncomfortable asking questions or approaching you. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Yeah. I love questions. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. I don't mind if people ask me questions about disability. The thing to keep in mind is your intentions. It's more about attitude. If someone uses the wrong word I'm not going to get offended. If they have a pity and disrespectful attitude I'm not going to be happy. It's more about their intentions, how they approach a situation. Is it friendly, respectful curiosity? Or is it pitying questioning, implying that you don't belong and to leave their establishment? It's really about their intentions and attitude. When people come up and ask questions I'm happy to explain. Deaf/blindness is rare. I don't expect people to know about deaf/blindness. My parents didn't understand deaf/blindness. They hadn't heard of Helen Keller or braille. My parents are from Eritrea, Ethiopia, so they were learning a whole <strong>new system:</strong> the American culture, our system here, and improving their English in addition to learning about disability access, braille, the civil rights movement, that sort of thing. I'm used to people not knowing. I don't mind teaching and explaining as long as people are respectful and kind when they ask. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> It sounds like a lot of the solution to inclusion and to increasing accessibility is to include. At the beginning of every process, whether it's creating a business or a building or meeting a new person, to favor inclusion rather than getting to it later. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Yeah. Plan for it from the start. Make it a priority. Before you build something, whether it's a new building, a website, an app, a program take the time to plan about accessibility. How can you make sure everyone in your community is welcome? If you're not sure, do the research. Look at the web content accessibility guidelines, engage with the disability community. There may be disability organizations in your area. If not, you could tap into national networks. You could contact disability rights experts, like myself. You can reach me. I have a website Haben Girma dot com. I'm also on social media, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. People can find and follow me there. Reach out to people if you don't know the answers. Definitely start asking questions with the intention of trying to welcome everyone. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> I think what people will find as they try to open up their practices, their websites, the court system, is that it's actually not as hard as it seems like it might be once you get started. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Exactly. It's really not as hard as it seems. Often times disability access needs are free, simple, easy. The vast majority of people with disabilities can explain what they need. If you ask, people can help point you in the right direction of what you need to do. Sometimes it's being flexible. Maybe moving a meeting place from an inaccessible spot to an accessible spot. Maybe it's just moving furniture a little bit to create more room. Maybe it's bringing in an interpreter. Maybe it's switching from telephone to email or using a chat service that provides access. Just being flexible about how you communicate, where you communicate, will allow you to connect with more people. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> That sounds awesome. I hope that lawyers who are listening are starting to think about ways that they can bring that fifth of the country who is disabled in and help them find legal services and make them clients. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> I strongly encourage everyone to think of this as a business opportunity. It's not charity. It's good business for all of us to be inclusive because you get to tap into a larger market. Sam just said it's one-fifth of the population. 57 million Americans with disabilities. That's a significant market. It benefits all of us to be inclusive. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> Haben, thank you so much for being with us today. I really enjoyed our conversation. <strong>Haben Girma:</strong> Thank you for spotlighting inclusion, Sam, and creating the opportunity to teach more people about disability access. <strong>Aaron Street:</strong> Make sure to catch next week's episode of The Lawyerist Podcast by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast app. Please leave a rating to help other people find our show. You can find the notes for today's episode on Lawyerist dot com slash Podcast. <strong>Sam Glover:</strong> The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not endorsed by Legal Talk Network. Nothing said in this podcast is legal advice for you.

This transcript was prepared by Rev.com.

Podcast #147: Accessible Justice, with Haben Girma was originally published on Lawyerist.com.

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