#i do have video proof of octavia spencer reassuring us that amphibian man has a great butt in the movie

[cielrouge]

The Shape of Water Q&A at AMC Lincoln Square

Went to see The Shape of Water on opening night at the AMC Lincoln Square, and was lucky enough to stick around for the Q&A afterwards with the Director Guillermo Del Toro, Doug Jones (the Asset/Amphibian Man), Octavia Spencer (Zelda Fuller), and Michael Stuhlbarg (Dr. Robert Hoffstetler). The Q&A was really enlightening and the moderator asked some great questions but sadly only one audience question was answered before they ran out of time. More about the film below:

The Film’s Genesis, Setting & Major Themes

The Shape of Water first came about when Guillermo watched The Creature From the Black Lagoon for the first time when he was six. There was a pivotal scene where he saw Julie Andrews’ character swimming underneath the sea creature, and Guillermo essentially shipped the pair and wanted them to end up together. Evidently when they didn’t, he was very salty about it hahaha. 

So, Guillermo told himself “One day, I’ll fix it.” Granted, he joked that “It took me 46 years”, but better late than never he supposes.

When Guillermo started seriously working on the film idea, he had been trying it in different forms and ideas, but it wasn’t until 2011 where he had his real first breakthrough with the storyline, after sitting down for lunch with an author friend Daniel Kraus (who he also co-wrote the novel with). He told Kraus about his story featuring an amphibian man, and after bouncing back and forth with various ideas, they locked in on a specific idea of a janitor taking the amphibian man home as a plot point. 

Guillermo stated: "This was the key and the way into the story, because if you go in with the government agent or the scientist, it's the same bullshit, but if you go through the service door with the cleaners and the janitors, that's already, politically, a very different statement."

For Guillermo, the film was: "always about giving a voice to the voiceless,” which is immediately noticeable by the fact in the trailer, the two most prominent voices, one who is the narrator and the other who is speaking on Elisa’s behalf, are Octavia Spencer and Richard Jenkins’ characters, a black woman and closeted gay man respectively, who traditionally would have had their voices silenced in this era. 

The Shape of Water is set in 1962, a year that Guillermo acknowledges is a year often viewed with rose-colored lenses, in which conversations about a time period in which America was “great,” is commonly cited as the 1950s and 1960s. 

However, Guillermo wanted to show that this was more of a “hollow pasture/green” in which this idea of America being “great” during the 1960s was really a hollow illusion, because “if you weren’t the right gender or race during this era, you were really on the other side of the fence.” He specifically cites that 1962 was really “the end of that dream when JFK is assassinated, the War in Vietnam escalates, and you have this negative space in wider society created by Madison Ave.” 

Sally Hawkins’ Involvement 

In 2011, Del Toro immediately sent a message to Sally Hawkins' agent letting her know that he was writing a movie for her, and the agent said “sure!” and that he’d let her know.

But it really wouldn’t be until 2013 where Hawkins got on board. Guillermo said that during the night of the Golden Globes afterparty(?), some friends called him up to get out of the house and mingle together. 

Guillermo was initially reluctant to attend, preferring to watch the rest of Antique Roadshows instead (LOL) but was eventually dragged out....where he then promptly ordered 40 shots of tequila at the venue (Omfg Guillermo plz...) 

Later when he was leaving, Guillermo spotted Sally Hawkins near the exit and allegedly ran up to shout at her “I’m writing a movie for you....where you fall in love with a fish!” Though, Sally was apparently a great sport about it and simply replied: “That’s great!” 

Doug Jones’ Involvement and His Working Relationship with Del Toro 

Jones discussed that this is his sixth film that he’s collaborated with Guillermo on, having also previously collaborated on the television show, The Strain, together. Guillermo first told Jones that he had a creature role for him, but presented it with a certain gravitas, specifically emphasizing that Jones would be the romantic lead. 

Guillermo wanted Jones to channel something more "raw" and "animal," but "throw in a bit of matador with sexiness and leaning in with the pelvis." This was coupled along with the backstory that the Asset/Amphibian Man was "worshiped by the locals like a God in the Amazon."

So, Jones stated that it was important for the Asset/Amphibian Man to hold himself with a level of regalness and superhero-esque stance, since "the mystery was whether or not the Asset/Amphibian Man has powers."

But the Asset/Amphibian Man is important because “his presence is one in which he changes everyone around him.” Such as when he helps Hoffstelter in getting back his real name, Dimitri, back for the first time, or when he helps Zelda realize that her marriage is over. 

Elisa’s relationship with the Asset/Amphibian Man also helps the audience realize that her “beauty is one that develops profoundly over the course of the film, yet at the same time, she’s an individual that could be sitting next to you on the bus.” 

Jones notes that "the challenge was creating a love story between a creature and a young lady, and making it feasible and plausible."

Jones also stated that fine artist Mike Hill bought in a great artistry with the Asset/Amphibian Man’s character design to make him the "most beautiful, sexy, appealing monster that I have ever been in my entire life." 

At this point, Octavia Spencer interjected to reiterative to the audience, "He had a great butt, guys." And everyone basically started howling in laughter, but in total, unanimous agreement lolol. 

Working on a Guillermo Del Toro Set

The moderator pointed out that there’s usually not much CGI or anything of that nature. “These are practical sets with practical effects.”

Octavia stated that Guillermo “has a beautiful eye for detail, and the beauty you saw was what we felt.” When the pair met up for the first time to talk about the film, they bonded over their mutual love for antiques. 

Octavia noted that the sets were” elaborate, but in a real person sort of way, very practical, in a way that you wanted to purchase things from it." 

Michael noted: “Everything were there. Every track on the floor, no green screen at all. So instead of having something conjured in your mind of what you think something is about, you had it right in front of you. It’s very immediate and extraordinary. It was really quite extraordinary."

Octavia Spencer on Zelda Fuller’s Characterization 

Octavia stated that she's played several characters like Zelda in this era (1950s-1960s), but The Shape of Water was the first time where she felt that she played a character with agency. 

She noted: "You know that I'm a black woman, and the history of our country in 1962, but Guillermo made it so I didn't have to play in those circumstances, and made it so I got to act as a regular woman who finally felt contemporary. I'm in a relationship that I don't feel appreciated in, and that's literally all I talk about.”

However, Octavia noted that her role as Zelda actally felt empowering and “I know that sounds crazy, but it did. But it did feel empowering for the first time where I didn't have to play my gender or my circumstances of my ethnicity in this particular role.” 

Guillermo interjected at this point that these racial and gender dynamics do come into play with the tense confrontation scenes between Michael Shannon and Octavia Spencer’s characters (Zelda and Strickland) in the laboratory bathroom and later in Zelda’s house. 

For Strickland and Zelda, in terms of black-and-white morality, Guillermo noted that they’re basically on complete opposite sides of the spectrum, and everyone else polarizes around this spectrum. Everyone changes around Strickland, and this was what Guillermo felt made him a particularly interesting character. He then joked that the scene featuring Strickland's meeting with General Hoyt is comparable to meetings he’s previously had with Hollywood studio executives early on in his career.

Michael Stuhlbarg on Dr. Robert Hoffstelter’s Characterization

The moderator pointed out that the second most compassionate character in the movie is probably Dr. Hoffstelter, a Russian agent and Soviet spy in the Cold War. He then asked Michael about what initial conversations he had with Guillermo about Hoffstelter. He responded that Guillermo is “one of the most remarkable, whirlwind aritsts that I’ve ever met.” 

Michael noted that at the first day of shooting, Guillermo handed him, and most of the main cast, these “three to four page biographies about our characters. About how Hoffstelter was, what he'd been through to get him to that point in the start of the movie, what books he read, what food he loved, what food he had to learn to love in America, and so on. It was astounding and you can tell really how much Guillermo loved these characters to the core.”

Michael did his best to use as much of this character biography template as he could in the film, and Guillermo then interjected to reference the scene where Hoffstelter is ironing his own pants as an example. 

Guillermo also encouraged Stuhlbarg to draw a lot on-set, and the drawings that you see of the Asset/Amphibian Man in the film are actually Stuhlbarg's own drawings that were used. 

The Main Cast on Working with Sally Hawkins as a Scene Partner 

Jones noted that “not having a verbal language was a challenge and a beauty all at the same time,” since “words can be so polluted but a touch or a look of an eye isn't. It's very pure, honest, and true." His mime background was one he found particularly helpful for this film. 

For the dance number scene he had with Hawkins, Jones admitted that he’s not much of a dancer and he and Hawkins had only three weeks to prepare. Jones claimed that he was "Ginger Rogers, but with flippers," whereas Hawkins was meant to channel Fred Astaire. 

But working with Sally was a delight, since “her soul is right here for you,” and the main cast had already built a strong mutual trust and bond by the time filming started. 

Octavia described Sally as “painfully shy,” but once you get to know her, “she’s the funniest person and has a beautiful sense of humor. She’s one of the biggest artistic talents that I know.”

Octavia noted that along with Sally, pretty much with the main cast, “we all had to fall in love with one another, since you can't fake chemistry. What you see between all of us is real. A bond that happened naturally.” Octavia admitted that she feels very fortunate that “we are still this way to each other, even after shooting finished.” 

In Octavia’s case, she and Sally really bonded when they took sign language classes together prior to filming, and that’s how they got to really know each other.

Guillermo Del Toro on Sally Hawkin’s Characterization of Elisa Esposito 

It was revealed that Guillermo asked Sally to watch silent films to help prepare for the role of Elisa Esposito, particularly Charlie Chapman and Buster Keaton films. When drafting the film, Guillermo knew for certain that he wanted Elisa to have a monologue and dance number. 

Michael praised Sally’s talent for improvisation, citing the scenes where Elisa is mopping around, since “you know everything about Elisa, even when her back is turned.” 

Guillermo particularly praised Sally during the powerful scene where Elisa initially enlists Richard Jenkins’ character (Giles)’s help to rescue the Asset/Amphibian Man. Essentially there is a “triple monologue” going on, where you see the words pretty much written over Elisa’s face, then you have the physical action of her signing the words to Richard, and then the epiphany seen on Richard’s face when he repeats Elisa’s words verbally for the audience. 

The Most Compelling Part of the Story 

The one audience question that was asked was in regards to the most compelling part of the movie for each panelist. 

Michael Stuhlbarg stated that from the POV of his character, he noted that Hoffstelter “was a scientist first,” and subsequently had some divided loyalties that he really grapples with throughout the film. The character note from Guillermo that stuck out to Michael the most was that Hoffstelter was a character that wanted to die back home in Russia, not the US. 

Michael was also just dazzled by the combination of different styles/genres in which Guillermo masterfully fuses magical realism, romance, and Cold War-style espionage thriller elements together, along with a homage to Old Hollywood musicals. 

Octavia Spencer once again reiterated that the most compelling part of the film was being able to play a woman that had agency for the first time in this particular era. But when she also first met with Guillermo to talk about the film, she knew that “it was going to be a beautiful picture from the first page with Eliza sleeping underwater,” and she was very eager to see how Guillermo would execute this on-screen.

Octavia also called herself a “hopeless romantic” and “say what you will about the film,” but she loved the fact that Guillermo is saying that there’s still someone out there for everyone, with the romance at the very heart of the storyline. 

Doug Jones loved the classic message of the underdog wins in the end with unsuspecting triumph. He particularly related to his character, the Asset/Amphibian Man, because there were times growing up as a gawky, long-limbed teenager where he felt like the “monster” in the room, and “is love out there for me?” was a question that he always asked himself. So, the message of “finding the beauty of the monster within you,” was one that was compelling to him. 

Guillermo Del Toro had a sweet moment where he admitted that the most compelling part was that ‘you guys [the audience] showed up.” 

Guillermo said that filmmakers often have to trust their instincts and one of the most valuable pieces of advice he got once from a former screenwriting teacher was: “Don’t make the movies you need, make the movies that need you to exist.” 

Followed by a sobering moment where Guillermo confessed that as a filmmaker: “it’ll take three to four years of your life and you end up sacrificing a lot of your social and family life for an IMBd entry or a single slot on Netflix. So, making a movie is like “being part of an accident in slow motion,” in which filmmakers are never entirely sure about audience reception. But seeing the full house and the generous reception that he got after the opening night screening is what basically makes all the personal sacrifices, time, and effort all worth it in the end for Guillermo as a filmmaker.