#i didnt realise i was missing that leaf at the back until after i posted it on Instagram so here we are

[creatrixcymraes]

study of a plant I met in Vasiliki (gouache, oil pastel sgraffito and watercolour pencils on paper)

[bitchbrows]

Karin, Sasuke and Sakura + Love

*TO ANY HARDCORE SASUSAKU FANS, READ AT OWN RISK. I AM AWARE SOME ARE CHILL ABOUT THESE POST SO ITS IN THE TAG.*

So I got into a rather heated debate with a tumblr person whom I shall not name, but could be figured out considering how they made a post based on the worst points I mentioned. Head is more in gear now and so wanted to make my points more clear based on these 3 individuals.

Starting with Karin. Now, I have noticed alot of sasusaku fans tend to make Karin look bad, alot in order to make sasusaku seem like the ‘better’ choice, not just because it’s canon. My problem is that the one reason they berate Karin for is how she let Sasuke sink deeper into the darkness.

Okay, actually, let’s put Sakura and Karin together and compare their lifestyle and actions. For starters, at the end of part 1, Sakura insisted to join Sasuke in his quest for revenge (Not bothering to get manga caps because that is 1. too much hassle 2. describing scene and time shall suffice so feel free to prove me wrong otherwise but I recall the scenes well enough). Now if Sasuke didn’t say no to her and let assist him. is that much different from what Karin was doing? They both wanted to just be by his side. Yes, one can argue that was past Sakura but I am judging it from if Sasuke didn’t say no. After a while of assisting him, she would most likely think it was wrong, though left short on options: go on a suicidal short mission and try to stop him only to be killed or attempt to escape back to the leaf to seek help. The latter seems more plausible, but nonetheless she at least had people to turn to for help on saving Sasuke. And since then and part 2, it’s has mostly been either her heavily relying on others to do the job because she can’t or her foolishly charging in without much of a decent plan. She couldn’t bring herself to do it.

In Karin’s case, she is stuck in the dark side (No stars wars ref intended); no-one to turn to if she thought what he was doing was wrong, no full sense of morality, surrounded by bad guys whom are now neutral/good. Would Karin, in Shippuden timeline which means Sasuke was far more powerful and sinking further even before he recruited Karin..Would she really be that stupid to just throw her life away in vain, knowing full well saving him by herself (The others wouldn’t help since they don’t oppose his path.) would end in inevitable failure and cost her her life? No. What she was doing was unhealthy on both sides yes, but if Sakura was in her position, her upbringing, things wouldn’t be much different. At the end of the day, they wanted to be by his side. Also, Karin based it off one’s chakra and Sasuke’s was warm and okay up until mainly summit/Danzou fight where she finally realised that it was wrong. She had no village to return to. No-one to rely on. That is a major difference and they shouldn't be compared over that as to who was better. Upbringing/past makes up a majority of what you end up becoming in the present. Sakura had light/joy, Karin had darkness/despair, someone who was deprived of anythung good in their life (Hinted when she saw Naruto’s chakra and thought how lucky Sasuke was to have comrades/friends like them). End of.

Moving onto love. Sakura’ literally birthed from superficial reasons that were equal to that of Ino’s..He was cool and strong. That was it. No depth, nothing more..That was all we got as to how and why she fell for him. I am not saying there needs to be reason, but for a love that grew so unhealthily strong from something so weak and a mere childhood crush, that is what I call bad romance. Yes, she spent most of time with him, however they were rarely alone. Naruto was there, they barely had one-to-one interaction that didn’t add any depth to the ship when there was plenty of opportunity, unlike in Karin’s case (Sad side character life). After he left in part 1 on a bad note (the beginning of dark age puberty), that was 3 years of his absence. 3 years of no interaction nor bonding, let alone any communication at all for that matter and on their first reunion in part 2, what was she greeted with? Near-death by katana if Naruto wasn’t there to save the day for the 100th time.

Lets be realistic, if you loved someone back in childhood days only to see them leave at the start of teens, only to come back years later and not even on good terms, then there’s a problem. That problem in Sakura’s case was how self-absorbent she was with her feelings. yeah, she developed abit in Shippuden, but for someone who is set as female protag, that doesn’t suffice for decent character development/characterisation. Her love for Sasuke was ultimately what backfired her character as whole that even the plot changed for the majority of part 2. Naruto: Sasuke Hunt. Yes, the others made the choice on their own, like Naruto anyone would feel responsible on trying to make someone they love happy. Sakura was pleading throughout for Naruto yet fails to consider to his feelings until late in part 2 which was handled terribly with the fake confession, after that whole thing with Hinata protecting Naruto in pain arc too and her acknowledging Hinata’s feelings for Naruto. Good job.

Regarding Gaiden, that didnt really help much either since Sasuke was absent for long period again, and moment he comes back, can barely make eye contact or even kiss his own wife. For someone who could bang a chick and agree to a long term mission with her present only to come back all shameful/undeserving of her affection, that is rather odd. They literally became canon after Naruto done the saving, and had less depth than naruhina, despite Hinata being one who could be considered side character when looking at her screentime in comparison to Sakura. It’s a shame honestly, but am going from what was given to use and quite frankly, sasusaku ship was handled poorly and out of blue since the last Naruto vs Sasuke fight. His poke to her forehead doesn’t even justify the ship especially when just before the that fight, Sasuke acknowledged that he saw no reason why she loves him and visa versa, Christ, he could be considered a narusaku shipper as he let Sakura know of naruto’s feelings and seemed like he wanted to push away that moment for that ship to be canon.

Back to Karin. Her love for Sasuke birthed from during the chunin exams when he saved her and greeted with a ‘warm smile’ that she dearly missed in Shippuden. They spent majority of time together in Taka, not alone just like team 7. A few moments that were mainly for comic relief. Her character never really went up or down, it was pretty straight throughout. Unlike Sakura whom had plenty of screentime to see her grow, Karin was rather neglected as an individual character. Not much can be said on her end. Her behavior was vulgarly unhealthy, yes but with lack of guidance or discipline when it comes to morality, what was right and wrong? From our perspective yes, it was bad and so would be from Sakura’s perspective but from Karin’s, it didn’t seem all that bad. It was normal behaglvior to her maybe. Besides, she is not mwntally well…Clearly shown when she was, for example, locked up and had 180s over Sasuke despite planning for escape. No-one questioned it on her side, maybe background ‘ew’ reactons from Suigetsu but no-one stopped her. She wasnt emotionally manipulative like Sakura was...She comically forced herself into his personal space yes..But didn’t take it any  further.

To me nothing is more pathetic and desperate than to force ya emotions onto someone the way Sakura did. She may have toned down abit in part 2, but she ended up repeating the same she did back at end of part 1. Joining his personal journey, this time for redemption. Nonetheless, it was bad and she know Sasuke rather wants to do it alone if she really knew him. After all, claiming her strong love for Sasuke, it is rather pitiful how she lacks the understanding or even knows Sasuke from what we have seen.

That whole thing in gaiden made it more stupid when Sarada questioned if he ever wore glases and Sakura wasnt sure. Way to make her top wife. barely knows her bloke, even physically in that time.

Also, same could be said for Sakura’s relentless chase which I find bizarre when it comes to not be opposed. If I was Ino (Whom gave up on Sasuke knowing it wasn’t good for her), I would have gave some talk no jutsu or at least try. Doubt Sakura would come launching with a katana anytime soon for trying to stop her (LOL)…or choked or kunai’d (ninja shank).

They both were let to have this unhealthy obsession with Sasuke, but I am mostly disappointed with Sakura, since she is the main female. One that young females would want to look up to. Did I? No. Kishi has handled this heroine so poorly to the point where even he thought other fem characters in Naruto like Hinata would be better as the Heroine (Higher popularity) and of all shounens I have seen, she is on the low rank list for top female protag and is replaceable as a character in the series, the story would end the same anyway. Not just because of her love for Sasuke, but how she handled situations, almost cost the rest of team 7 their lives for her pointlessly reckless actions (Going to Sasuke with only a kunai for sneak attack, after literally gassing Kiba, Lee and Sai who only wanted to help. Good job. Like she could do better alone and put them out of harms way? Her likeability certainly dropped after that.) and doesn’t hold any vital part to the plot which is sad for she is the lead female. Just there to shoutout to Nardo or Sasuke and be saved or throw punches. It was Naruto and Kakashi’s choice, yes, but she should very well know them by now that they wouldn’t let her just die in vain (The repercussions of her actions are costly) and for that is one of reasons why I think Karin was wiser with her actions. She was aware of her capabilities and the outcome besides the Danzou fight - false hope. She knew her place and supring thought straight. Hell, if she was in Sakura’s place as main female, she would have grown so well as a character considering her upbringing. She’s a mix of Hinata and Sakura but more eccentric.

My point is, be it Karin or Sakura, not much would be different. The story would end the same, Naruto saves Sasuke. Both girls failed, none better than the other when it comes to love for Sasuke even if one was more in the light (Sakura), same outcome though. What would have looked better as gay couple considering the lengths they’ve gone for each other, ended up in heterosexual relationships with near to zero interaction/good bonding.

The only canon ship that made sense was ShikaTema because they had build up and were mutual. No one-sided, only the girls get their crush happy ending bullshit.

Sasuke was no good for Sakura nor Karin, but if I had to choose (Tho don't ship him with anyone tbh), SasuKari. Mainly because since the ending wouldn’t be different and ships became canon after Sasuke was saved by Naruto (‘Woken up’ by the hokages somewhat), it would be no different than sasusaku relationship except Karin would be more understanding of his actions that may look sketchy during and after sasuke shinden and would scold/berate him for doing anything stupid (As she was with him in his darkest times and shares similarities such as being the last pure bloods of their clans and losing entire family, so the empathy would be great. Saying Sakura was also with him at his darkest moments only counts for part 1. He was far worse and changed as anyone would during teens, in part 2. Plus, we barely see Sakura actually give him any rightful scoldings for his shit, even after he returned. Lets him off easy.) and it would just be the same as sasusaku was, except Karin didn’t emotionally damage herself as much Sakura had over the course several years when it comes to Sasuke. Sakura was empathetic, yes and cared but again, her actions were what ruined that. On the other hand, Karin didn’t get as much chances shown to us on to actually understanding/convey her feelings for Sasuke and see how she would be given the fact she was only in it for Sasuke’s goal. We know how she came to like him and the fact that his happiness comes before her own feelings whereas in sakura’s case, it was 50:50. She said better more selfless words back in part 1, can’t say the same as much in part 2; the scene where she was pretty much begging if there was thought of her in corner of his heart, come back pretty much. ‘Not too late’ (Sure as hell late to me, that was a horrible ending. Nopity4Sasuke.) That scene left a small distaste in my mouth though. Could have been written better. And the fact she always to be by his side when at times clearly he wants to do what is right for once, alone, like get over it and give the guy time & space..I was hoping that it would be different in part 2 near the end and she wishes him well on his journey but nope..part 1 repeat (Character development backfire, nostalgia fail)..Though she was more chill this time. However, it is really hard to compare two girls from completely different sides and whom is more right for Sasuke or meaningful feelings, especially when you barely see much of Karin and her development/growing up. Sakura would have blossomed better as a character if she got over Sasuke. I am not saying the ship is better, just prefer it judging by what it does for character and the handling. Karin’s obsessive odd behaviour wouldn’t last long as she seems to have matured and became less of comic relief in that moment she was shown in Boruto mini series with that horrible pointless plot. And although Sakura’s feelings were selfless in part 1 mostly, it was 50:50 between selfish and that depending on what Kishi decides to do with her this time when it comes to Sasuke.

I don’t care who y’all ship, just don’t go berating a character that threaten ya ship or is shipped with one of the characters from your ship just to make them look good. It's okay to ship multiple pairings that may involve the same vharacter that than ship one ir the other since both are ship threats to one another.

On another note. Sasuke…

‘Curse of hatred’ does not excuse Sasuke of his severe actions that done more damage than most of the villains we’ve seen in the Naruto verse, emotionally and physically. Letting him off with ‘oh but he was influenced greatly by curse of hatred like Hashirama said’ is like excusing a drunk man of their violent crimes because they were ‘drunk’. It may change ones behavior, but NOT their morality. He succumbed to it willfully as it was a ‘need’ in his quest to avenge his clan that was long planned before this ‘curse of hatred’ came to be known. It just fed off his anger, but it didn’t have control over his actions, that much was proven when he overcame the COH. A poke to the forehead as sign of affection after all that mess does not redeem nor justify the sasusaku ship that may have looked goodnback when they were kids and was only chick on team he was stuck with. But hey, guess Kishi started the shounen trend of throwing all these senseless couples to shipsville by the end, albeit Kubo’s ships weren’t bad to an abusive degree and was more agreeable.

Sasuke was right to say Sakura has no reason to love him. He has done nothing good since end of part 1 and I don’t even recall him doing more good than bad to her throughout. Failed to reciprocate and was absent for most of her teen years, only to come back after shinden for quick shag maybe…Go again on his travels only to have Sakura inviting herself rather than be invited on his travels then voila..Sarada, a megane child (For no reason other than to rile up the two rival ships on who is the real mother. Ugh) to piss off again for a long mission.

Overall, Sakura, a main female, isn’t far off from a side character like Karin (Both use a close friend as punching bags to vent emotion.), a major side character at that and that is bad to say because if anything, Sakura had so much potential and opportunity to be better (A promising start at beginning of part 2 then flopped after that reunion with Sasuke.) but ends up being an unoriginal Tsunade throw strong punches copycat who can’t even oppose Sasuke or berate him like she does with others (Mostly to one who done her the more good than one she loves. Constant punch-ins; comic relief or not, that was only funny in part 1..Totally appreciative) when he should be getting the most smackin’ and continues to follow him to the point where had Sarada whilst doing so. PLUS, the fact she just sweeps everything Sasuke did under thr rug and still insist to join another quest of his just baffles me..Willing to leave the leaf behind for someone that has yet to redeem himself and goes with a mere apology that was accepted just like that. For one who is said by Kishi to be the most normal and realistic girl, set a pretty bad example. At least Karin’s character was shown to be more mature with her feelings (Despite the ‘comical’ flirt attempts) and handled rejection pretty well for someone who was completely obsessive. She respected Sasuke and Sakura ending up together and I would just love to see how it would be if it was the other way around. Karin is not a bad person nor is Sakura..Just hated how she was written and all. Try considering other ‘love rival’ character’s upbringing and quality of life/circumstances, before bashing them out over narrow reasoning.

And regarding this whole Sakura didn’t force Sasuke to reciprocate or that wasn’t her goal. I am sorry, but if she really didn’t care about that, she would have put her feelings to the side and focus on the actual saving instead of constantly tearfully screaming out her feelings to him as if expecting that would ‘save the day’. That scene where she looks back on a photo of team 7 and is shown to miss Sasuke isn’t an SS moment. If it was, both sides would have been involved, but you don’t see Sasuke thinking or missing Sakura. People need to stop making a panel that involves their ship but not exactly in romantic sense, rather one sided, need to get their delusional minds straight on thatpart (Honestly hate that word since alot of shippers tend to use it on notps for something they are hypocritical for judging their notp shippers for). SavethepainofconstantrejectionSakuralove. That is no different than forcing ones feelings onto another or wanting them to reciprocate. Thus another reason which bothers me on how she goes about situations/predicaments. Emotionally manipulative, be it pure good intent or not. Ending it with just because it’s canon, doesn’t make it right or a reason to ship. Sasuke was better off alone continuing long solo travels like that. No point of putting the two together..Just because they are mains and since naruhina got canon gotta have these two sent to shipsville too? Was it really worth all that wait Sakura did to finally get Sasuke but not in the way one would expect of a couple with constant distance on Sasuke’s end and withdrawn to even show affection - from what we’ve been given in canon (‘He thinks he doesn’t deserve her love’ doesn’t excuse forbmany reasons..One being they banged and had Sarada so clearly made love yet now he is like no..I don’t deserve it. C'mon.). He would have been better off dead. His character hadn't improved much besides being allies once again with Lead, but still acts aloof and withdrawn. He got over his goal with partial achievement and is just there, unable to love his supposed wife properly. Like urh, pointless. Should veen the end to uchihas during war. Some noble sacrifice or whatever...Not some poxy rival fight to then be 'saved'.

I forgot what else I wanted to vent out about this but for now that is all. Don’t think my thoughts came out clear as I would have liked but fawk it.

P.S.I am not going just put this in anti tag, for I want everyone to know. I want discussions..Debates, no ‘yes I agree, lets bash bash bash’. Not about that life. Anti tag is pointless because the purpose of these post if for discussion/debate. By now we should be decent mature beings and accept different opinions & criticism, if ya won’t let it slide..Come reply then. A reasonable one would be nice too instead of pointless anonymous death threats.