#i can’t believe i never edited s7 rick THAT much

[rickswh0r3]

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[just-whelmed]

A Long, Rambly, Incoherent Rant Regarding TWD

!WARNING!: a lot of complaints, a lot of tangents, specific shipping of specific pairings, wishful thinking and weird ideas, probably unpopular opinions -- all up ahead.

[i just needed to get my thoughts out there; i’m not looking to fight anyone over things i think/believe/like or don’t like about the show. i’m aware my opinions are not fact, nor are they the end all, be all for the walking dead. i’m just a fan who has no one to talk to about all this junk. nothing more. ignore if you want.]

I love The Walking Dead. It’s been a huge part of my life, my family’s life, for going on 5 years now. I’ve sat down every Sunday (when the show is airing) since the season 4 premiere to watch live, I’ve argued with family members after episodes, I’ve analyzed and defended characters, spent time making stupid edits and writing fluffy fanfics and just generally thinking about this show for an admittedly unhealthy amount of time.

I’ve never liked zombie entertainment. I didn’t even want to watch this show initially, but I’d been convinced by my sister one day and so we sat down in my room and watched season 1, which we rented from a video store before it went out of business. Right away, during 1x01, I realized that this wasn’t a zombie show—it was a show about survivors. It was a show about one man waking up to a dead world and wanting nothing more than to find his family. It was about seeing all these characters with all their complexities, whether you liked them or not, trying to keep themselves afloat while anyone could die at any moment. But that was never the point. The point was to follow these characters we meet right alongside Rick and root for them to conquer the threat of the world, no matter the cost. Because amongst all the loss and sadness, there was survival and hope. That’s how I convinced my grandparents to watch, too. 

And so it makes me sad, mad, frustrated, that I can barely recognize the show anymore. That I can rarely even enjoy it. Where’s the fun in watching characters you’ve cared about for years get killed off without any payoff (especially when it’s falsely promised that it’s for some type of “reason”)? Where’s the fun the show either being so predictable that it becomes stupid, or so outlandish that you have to laugh at the ridiculousness of it?

I know the common arguments, just as I know my opinions are purely my own. This is a show that’s created by a team who can do whatever they want with it. They don’t have to take the fan’s wants and desires into account (they rarely do, anyhow). They don’t have to cater to anyone. However, why should they then expect the fans to keep watching when they (Gimple) consistently flush everything we love about what made TWD what it is right now down the drain? Actions have consequences, and while yes, this is a show and what happens shouldn’t revolve around whether or not people are going to get mad, I do think TWD deserves a little more care and common sense.

And I’m in no way saying that this show should not evolve every season, that it should only be about 5 people and no one else, that threats can’t be bigger and greater or that main characters can’t eventually die. I know all these things, I accept all these things, I even like some of these things. But there’s a time, a place, and a way to do all of this, and the way it’s been done recently… it’s just frustrating.

Of course, no matter what happens on the show, someone will always complain. There’s too much plot, not enough character moments; too many character moments, not enough action; too much action, not enough plot. Etc, etc. Nothing can please everyone 100% of the time and that’s fine, but where’s the balance? Where’s the forethought? It seems like Gimple plans a season without thinking about the future of the show, and now said future is far too bleak—in terms of TWD itself and the state of how long AMC can keep this train running before it completely wrecks.

And everyone has an idea on when this started happening. For reference, my favorite seasons OVERALL are 1, 2, and 6. S3 had a lot of great episodes, but too much focus on Woodbury too suddenly. S4 had some stand out episodes, but was slow a lot of the time and had weird plot moments intertwined. S5 might be my least favorite, really, though it contains a couple of my favorite episodes in the series. The first half with all that hospital shit? No thanks, but the second half was pretty good. A lot of people disliked s6 and cite this as the season that things started to fall apart, but aside from the completely random obsession Rick had over Jessie and the fakeout dumpster with Glenn (also, Denise’s too-soon death), I think the season was strong. It had a lot of little character moments where most everyone got to shine and essentially helped change the course of the show in new and interesting ways.

Unfortunately, s7 took those changes and ran in the wrong direction. The pacing was off, half the focus was about Negan when we had three communities (two of which were extremely new) to learn about, and practically all the deaths were for shock value. (Also, the whole “blame Daryl” bullshit really blew up here in full force, stopping Negan from taking accountability for anything because he’s so ~charming~.) Now, I have a lot of individual episodes in this season that I actually really like, for various reasons (7x02, 7x03, 7x05, 7x08, 7x13, 7x14, 7x15, 7x16; obviously, 7B was better than 7A in my eyes). And there were a lot of things in the other episodes I enjoyed, too, but overall? S7 was kind of a big mess.

Why did Glenn need to die, honestly? What was the point of the dumpster bullshit if he was going to get his comic death anyways, only this time as an afterthought and therefore the exact opposite of the huge show-changing event they’d claimed it would be? Abraham dying, alongside maybe a surprise someone else, would’ve done the same damn thing that s7 showed us, except Maggie wouldn’t have lost yet another person she cares the most about, Daryl wouldn’t be persecuted for something Negan did on solely his own will, and we’d still have some fucking hope for a little bit. TWD immediately started feeling less like TWD when Glenn was killed off. 

Why is Negan’s characterization so flip-floppy? He was, to me, a threat in 6x16 and 7x01, as well as 7x03, and then for the rest of the season (as well as 8a) he’s just a joke-cracking, lame ass leaning cartoon who likes to pretend he’s not coercing his “wives” into being with him and who seems so obsessed with Rick’s dick that I’m not sure how he thinks about anything else. His relationship with Carl also falls flat. Yeah, I can see maybe if he had some kind of fatherly feelings towards him, but he just seems like a sociopath. He makes fun of Carl and then apologizes when he starts to cry, only doing so to gain control. He carts Carl around to show him the workers he treats as slaves, the “wives” that are only with him because they want to avoid a worse fate, and tries to emasculate his father by propping himself up as some kind of God to his “Saviors,” as if Carl will think that’s cool. He used Carl to break Rick in 7x01 and then was ready to bash his head in during 7x16, but it’s okay because he feels bad, right? Negan is a villain who has no empathy, who makes excuses for his actions the same way his fans do; there’s nothing to make the audience connect with him in a way that even the Governor, as whiny and dumb as he was, had. His s8 tragic backstory? Cheated on his dying wife. Okay. But it’s alright because he’s funny sometimes, yeah? In my opinion, Negan is a weak villain who’s plot armor is so obvious that so much of the show has become stupid. He controls so many people and yet you’re telling me that only Dwight hates him? That no one can just freaking shoot the guy who strolls around without a care? You’re telling me that Rosita is suddenly a shit shot and hits the small surface of baseball bat instead of Negan’s forehead? You’re telling me Sasha couldn’t take the knife from the rapist in the cell and stab Negan? She was going to die anyways, so why not just do it? You’re telling me they had Daryl on the B-Team in 8x01 because… why? He had a bike to lead walkers to Sanctuary? No, it’s because he would’ve popped Negan between the eyes if he’d been in that crowd, instead of shooting out windows too many stories up to even matter. Like… not to shit on Rick’s plan, because it’s pretty clever when you take the whole thing into account, but really? They could’ve killed Negan in 8x01 and the show would have been more interesting with Simon as the new main villain.

Also, what’s the deal with introducing characters (Heath, Sherry) that suddenly just disappear? I get actors have other things going on, but then there’s literally no mention of them again. Tara finds a sheet of paper, which we have no clue what would even have to do with anything, and hopes Heath is okay. Dwight gets Sanctuary’s doctor killed so he can lie about Sherry being dead. That’s it. And then what’s the deal WITH BRINGING BACK A CHARACTER FROM SEASON 1, SOMEONE THAT COULD HAVE HAD POTENTIAL TO SHOW MORE TENSION WITHIN NEGAN’S RANK, SOMEONE WHO COULD’VE HELPED DWIGHT TURN ON THE SAVIORS AFTER RECONNECTING WITH RICK, SOMEONE WHO COULD’VE AT LEAST FILLED THE EMPTY SPACE MORGAN WILL BE LEAVING ONCE HE HOPS SHOWS, ONLY TO KILL HIM AT THE START OF THE VERY NEXT EPISODE??? The most random shit you have ever seen, right up there with scavenger freaks that talk like robots even though the apocalypse has only been around for like 2-3 years.

It really pains me to complain about a show I love so much, but maybe it’s because I have such strong feelings for it that I have to air my grievances.

But wait, there’s more!

So, sure, season 7 had a nice finale, with Sasha at least going out on her own terms and Glenn finally really being acknowledged by newly appointed leader Maggie, plus the cool visual of seeing Rick, Ezekiel, and Maggie give rousing speeches to their followers, but we then get s8.

It had a strong start. Rick’s plan is confusing and, for some reason, not fully explained when it’s the ONE thing that should be talked about. But, essentially: Rick teams up with other communities to trap Negan inside until they can no longer survive, with the threat of walkers looming, rather than outright killing anyone because he wants them to surrender. Then, with Dwight’s information, they go to every outpost to clear them of outside Saviors and to arm themselves with more weapons. His back up plan, in case something goes wrong, is to call upon the group that already betrayed them. Then, they just need to wait it out.

Except a lot of things go wrong, as they usually do, and this makes up a lot of the plot. Great! I enjoy the fact that many of our favorite characters are disagreeing. Daryl, Tara, and Morgan want revenge at all costs; Rick and Maggie are struggling with morality; Ezekiel loses nearly all of the Kingdom and needs Carol to get him steady; Jesus, the new moral compass, has taken prisoners because he’s thinking not just about the present, but also the future and what the cost of winning will do to everyone; Rosita’s learned her lesson, Michonne is on neutral ground, Carl once again won’t stay in the house, Eugene’s become an asshole as well as a coward, and Aaron is dealing with the loss of Eric (which was unnecessary, but whatever).

But within these neat little things are several problems. For one thing, Tara in s7 seemed to care about the innocent workers, even after she learned about Denise, Glenn, and Abraham. Now, she wants them all dead and is kind of manipulating the fragile state of mind that Morgan and Daryl are in. Like don’t get me wrong, crashing a truck into Sanctuary was Daryl’s big idea (and it was NOT a bad one, entirely, just morally incorrect, which he even knew and seemed to struggle with at times), but after Michonne tried to talk some sense into him and we saw that he’s once again suicidal, Tara is right there to make sure he goes through with it, just like she said Morgan was right after he had a breakdown and nearly killed Jesus. As for Eric, I get that we need casualties in war, and considering that they never developed the background characters (Tobin, Francine, etc) like they should have, Eric is the only one people would have cared enough about. It’s all about impact. (Note: If it wasn’t clear, I do not ship Aaron and Jesus on the show. I don’t read the comics, I don’t like the comics, and I don’t care if they’re a thing in them. On the show, they’ve not spoken ONE WORD to each other on screen. They’ve never interacted, which is a shitty setup if the plan is to then try and convince us later that a relationship can form there, especially if they killed Eric just for that. Why does Aaron need to be with Jesus when he was already in a perfectly loving relationship? Tom Payne said it best: it would be lazy plotting. Aaron is grieving. Give him the random baby, since Ross mentioned that he’d clung to that bit of life in the wake of losing Eric, and leave him alone.)

Now. Daryl. Obviously, he’s my favorite character, so no matter what I say it’s going to seem like I’m defending him just because. But what you don’t know about me is that I actually like to see both sides to a situation. I don’t think one character is always right or wrong, I’ll admit to anyone if something happens that I don’t agree with, and then I try to see the other side if I can. So… Daryl’s been a popular character since his first appearance. Like him or not, he’s a mainstay and a huge part of the show. Daryl has always been hot-headed, violent, and emotional. He’s also always been caring, loyal, and an outsider. In 6x16, he goes out to find and kill Dwight, despite the fact that it would probably get him killed in return. Why is he doing this? Dwight, who he’d helped in the woods, betrayed him and stole his stuff. Then, he killed Denise for no reason and showed zero remorse. Rick, Michonne, and Rosita followed him out because they cared about him and thought what he was doing was stupid. People act like Daryl is the only character who does stupid shit. Yeah, he’s not, but anyway. Instead of realizing Glenn, Michonne, and Rosita have their own minds and make their own decisions, people want to blame Daryl for them getting captured instead of blaming Dwight and the Saviors for acting on Negan’s orders. In 7x01, when everyone is in the lineup, after Abraham is murdered, Negan taunts Rosita. He’s looking for an excuse to kill someone else. He’s purposefully going around, trying to see who he can rile up. When he starts shouting at Rosita, Daryl snaps and punches him. Stupid, stupid, stupid. BUT look what happens after. The punch, which Daryl no doubt thought would get himself killed, backfires and makes Negan like him because he’s not a “bitch” like Rick. Immediately, Negan turns to Glenn, who’d already spoken out of line, and beats him to death. Aside from the fact that the writers wanted Glenn to die, if we’re looking at it in the scope of canon, do you really think it was random? Do you really think Abraham was random? Abraham, who’d straightened up as a challenge to Negan when he first went down the line? He was a threat and Eeenie Meenie Minie Mo was a farce. He picked Abraham for a reason, just as he picked Glenn—because he saw how Glenn reacted to Negan suggesting he would kill Maggie, and then with Daryl’s outburst on Rosita’s behalf he realized how much pain it would cause everyone if he killed someone else (someone who already showed strong ties to another in the ine) instead of the one who punched him. This is behavior he carries out constantly: choosing someone at random to hurt when someone else acts out because it’s cruel, because the person who defies him is doing so thinking they’re going to die, which means they’re ready to die, and killing someone else leaves that person living with pain and guilt. He tries to make Rick cut Carl’s arm off to get him to break. He was going to kill Dwight for when he, Sherry, and Tina escaped, leaving Sherry alive to ive with it. He burned Mark’s face for seeing Amber. He killed Spencer when he sucked up to him about hating Rick. He told Arat to kill someone random after Rosita shot at him. On and on. This is a pattern. Would people be less pissed if it had been Glenn who punched Negan and if someone else died in his place? Is it only Daryl (who has always been portrayed as impulsive and angry in hard situations) that elicits this reaction? It continues into season 8. Daryl goes against Rick’s plan, just like pretty much everyone else has been going against his plan, and he’s actually got sound reasoning. He wants to blow a hole into Sanctuary to let Walkers inside, furthering the threat and shortening the timeline of their surrender AFTER they’ve lost many of their Kingdom fighters. Rick cites the innocent workers and Daryl tries to make himself feel better about the plan by saying the workers could possibly escape (showing he cares, but not enough in his mindset to back down). Rick pretty much tells Daryl he cannot do it, which is a bad idea, and Daryl decides to disobey. But honestly, Rick’s plan is to recruit the trash people that betrayed them and have shown not to care about anything other than themselves, so how is Daryl’s plan, as ruthless as it is, any worse? Then, when he carries it out, with the help of Tara and Morgan, it succeeds in what he wanted it to. BUT THEN PEOPLE WANT TO BLAME THE WALKERS ROAMING OFF ON DARYL, WHEN HIS PLAN DID THE EXACT OPPOSITE. AND EVEN AFTER IT WAS STATED TWICE IN ONE EPISODE THAT EUGENE WAS AT FAULT, I STILL SAW PEOPLE BLAMING DARYL. It makes no sense. But neither does the show half the time, so whatever.

Sorry. I needed to get all that Daryl stuff off my chest.

Let me talk about Jesus for a minute.

Jesus had one of the best introductions on the show in 6x10 (which is my all-time favorite episode ever). Tom Payne is strong in the role, which, from what I understand, is quite different than the one from the comics… and that’s okay. And no matter what people say, I actually think Jesus has been characterized consistently since he’s been introduced, we’ve just seen it expanded on in unexpected ways. The issue comes with the fact that we haven’t seen enough. Gimple has underutilized him constantly, for no reason. After a good start at the end of s6, he was a background piece for a lot of s7, which is a shame since he shined whenever he was on screen. We established that Jesus is pretty much the only real fighter at Hilltop, the only scout, the only person who’s out more than he is in. But when we see him in s7, he’s just hanging around Hilltop like no big deal. If the point was for him to be there for Maggie and Sasha, then maybe more than a couple of little scenes was necessary to show that. And in 7x16? They took away his big Negan moment without giving a single fuck. That moment would’ve solidified him immediately as a member of Team Family instead of being just on the edge of it, but nope, give it to the cgi tiger (i love her, but let’s be real). And in 8a? We’ve seen his morality, his philosophy, and some of his many capabilities as a fighter, but there’s so much more to explore and I have little hope that they will in 8b, especially in the right ways. I so hope I’m wrong because I love his character and there are countless possibilities for him (one of which is a relationship with Daryl, but maybe I shouldn’t get into that. Yet).

I’ve liked a lot of little moments in 8a. I like the action, the conflict, the spotlight on multiple characters in an episode, the dynamics. But Negan’s plot armor is still around, the trash people are still around for no reason, shocking deaths are still around, and it’s exhausting. For as good as the pacing has generally been, the little details of the overall plot are convoluted.

The show that’s been about survival and hope no longer has either.

As bad as Glenn’s death was, even with the way he’d been slowly phased out before that point, Carl’s impending death is somehow worse. Carl, who was Rick’s reason for living since the start; Carl, who we’ve watched go through so much, who’s grown up so fast, who was just a kid who kept losing himself and is now a man who is capable of so much compassion; Carl, who is the future of the show, literally and figuratively. It’s all gone. For nothing.

For all the talk about “anyone can die at any moment,” no one ever really thought that Carl would be an option, and it’s precisely this reason they did it. I don’t care what excuses Gimple and Kirkman give. I really don’t. There will be no payoff for this, just acceptance from those who haven’t yet already quit. There are people who might think this is overdramatic or who don’t care or who are happy because oh how shocking or because maybe they didn’t like Carl, but this is legitimately a huge blow to the show. Not even simply because TWD is losing Carl himself, but because it’s losing everything he represents to the show and to the other characters. This is a big impact and it’s entirely negative. The trailer for 8b has Carl mentioning Lori telling him he would beat this world, which is sad and poignant, but why does it have to be? Why couldn’t she be proven right? Why does Gimple have to ruin the very foundation of the show with dumb stunts like this?

Deaths are no longer shocking or a good idea. Killing off main characters when you have so few remaining is no longer a good idea. Focusing on the horrors of their world with so few moments of happiness and love to counteract it is no longer a good idea. (How many couples on the show are there at this point?) Watching the characters we actually care about get kicked down over and over again, without getting to see them stand all the way back up, is no longer a good idea.

We have 8 episodes of the season left. A lot of things can happen, good or bad, we can only speculate right now, but based on the course season 8 has taken so far? I’m not too hopeful. We’re going to lose Carl, we’ll lose Morgan in some way since he’s crossing over to the other show, and I would be majorly surprised if Negan dies. It’s hard to be excited for whatever else might happen when most of the possibilities are disappointing. Even with Angela Kang ready to run s9, right now I feel kind of apathetic. Will she have as much control as Gimple had? Can she mend whatever else s8 breaks and create a new, interesting story with our remaining characters for s9? Or will it just be more of the same—maybe even worse—because AMC can’t get it together?

I complained about Gimple sticking far too closely to the comics during 7, which forced the show in awkward directions that it hadn’t been on track for (Spencer becoming a random douchebag for the guts death, for example), but instead of finding a middle ground between adapting and tweaking storylines from the comic for the screen and creating original ideas in s8, Gimple’s now strayed so far from not only the “source material,” but also from what the show has been and what it should.

How can it get back to its roots while becoming fresh in a way that’s actually logical and interesting? Maybe one day we’ll see. Cross your fingers.

You guys probably don’t care about my undeniably optimistic desires for the future of the show, but maybe I can list them anyway, since I’ve rambled enough as it is. 

One: Get rid of Negan. As much as I love JDM and think he’s a fantastic actor, Negan’s run his course. I vote for Rick not sparing Negan, but instead sparing the workers and those like Siddiq who he would have otherwise ignored, if not for his son’s interference. If Carl wants Rick to be merciful, it should be a side effect of Negan’s death, maybe make him feel guilt about how he went about the whole thing, but don’t keep him alive. Heck, Gimple recycles plotlines so much, why not have Rick take the workers into Alexandria like he had with the Woodbury citizens? It’d make more sense than the mustache-twirly villain living while Rick’s own child dies. At least the Governor had some humanity.

Two: Slow down on the character deaths. Seriously. How many nameless Alexandrians are left? How many nonfighters at the Kingdom? Oceanside has already been touched by Negan and Rick, and while the Hilltop is currently intact, I doubt they won’t suffer some damage by the end of this season. No more main or side characters should die this season; no more mains in s9, either. There’s barely anyone left. The characters we’ve already established are what make this show worth anything.

Three: Time jump for season 9? I think the show needs it, at least a couple of years. We’ve got a new showrunner, now we need a fresh slate. If a few years pass between 8 and 9, more options for what to do with the plot will open up. (Will they do the Whisperers? Will it be some big remix, like turning Lydia into a boy for Enid, having Lydia develop a mother/daughter relationship with Carol, having no kid at all? Will Jadis live to become Alpha by finally shaving off that horrible haircut? Maybe we’ll get an original villain? Who knows.) But people will be healed up, rebuilding can be under way, and we can explore storylines for characters that could have started during the jump, making things feel natural.

How about some little things I’d love to see, but that we probably won’t? Buckle up for some major wishful thinking and maybe exit the vehicle if you aren’t on the same page as me for certain things... like desus, carzekiel, etc.

Maybe we can recycle Rick not knowing if he should lead or not, still struggling with the loss of his son and trying to live on for him and Judith. Maybe Michonne is more driven after the initial mourning of another son and takes a more active role in getting Alexandria back on its feet, since she didn’t want to leave it for the Saviors in 8x08. She and Rick are stronger together and can focus on raising Judith to know her roots, like Lori’s sacrifice and how much Carl loved her, keeping his spirit alive. Maybe they recreate the council from the prison and any new characters (Siddiq, perhaps the introduction of Magna and her crew) can be part of it, alongside the oldies like Rosita, Aaron, and Gabriel (if he survives).

Maybe Daryl has decided to stick around at Hilltop. Not only did he never fit in at Alexandria, but perhaps he feels an obligation to look after Maggie and the baby. Maybe Enid’s come into her own (with the help of Maggie and Jesus?) and can have a critical role within the group, maybe as kind of a runner like Glenn had been at the start?

Maybe Jesus is more secure in his position in the community(ies), more secure in himself, and gets a personal story… like, say, developing a relationship with Daryl. And maybe this, too, can be a new start/story for Daryl; a departure from all the self-sacrificing and depression he’s been getting these last few years. Daryl’s sexuality has been ambiguous since the beginning, basically, as we usually know or see who a character is interested in fairly quickly (Rick with Lori and then Jessie and then Michonne, Glenn and Maggie, Tara and Alisha(?) then Denise, Sasha and Bob, Abraham with Rosita and the Sasha, Eugene’s interest in Tara and Rosita, Aaron and Eric, Carl with Beth and then Enid, Jesus coming out to Maggie...). And the fact that it has continued to be ambiguous, and to be covered as some kind of mystery as of late, leads directly into a chance for one final, organic reveal. Daryl has always been a character that’s formed unique and important bonds with others. He was integral to Jesus being introduced into the show and they’ve shared some very important scenes since; plus, it’s easy to pick up on signs that Jesus might have a bit of a crush on, or is at least attracted to, Daryl. (There are so many desus scenes, shots, parallels, etc. that have already been talked about, so I won’t here, but you know. you know you know.) Showing a bond between Daryl and Jesus that turns into romance would be an interesting story, a new one for both characters, it would make sense in a myriad of ways, and it would also be groundbreaking. (Also, Daryl deserves some freaking happiness and dialogue for once, just as Jesus deserves to be pushed to the forefront, and something like this could do just that.)

Maybe Tara can make the move to Oceanside. She needs a break, some time to get herself together, and she’s closely tied to that community already… which is full of women. Give Tara a girlfriend that isn’t murdered. (Cyndie? How even old is she, I don’t know.)

Maybe Rosita can find happiness again, now that she’s more chill and humble. Her bond with Tara can be further explored. If they want to throw her into a romance like in the comic, it sure as hell isn’t going to be with Eugene (either kill in in redemption or do something other than this back and forth confliction), so how about Tara or Siddiq? Dwight seems likely, given their interactions thus far, and while I’m still salty about him I see that he’s trying to redeem himself and Rosita would be someone who would understand that. There’s also Gabriel, but I would rather see him continue to sort of mentor her.

Maybe Ezekiel can rebuild Kingdom and maintain his more active role as a King, letting his people know the drill instead of feeding them an image. Maybe Carol can be his queen, his second in command, and they can be themselves together as they know exactly who the other is. A romance between them already seems perfectly set up; we’ve seen that they clearly care for each other and have a deep connection. 

I could go on, but I’m just spitballing here (and probably also revealing some things i’ve planned for my fic’s sequel so oops). There are tons of things this show could do in place of constant tragedy. Yes, deaths can still happen. People can still be shitty, walkers can still bite and eat people, that’s how it’s always been. Conflict and angst have to there. But after a war this big, with so many losses from s7 and s8, we need something else. We need to bring back that feeling of survival in the face of certain death, those little rays of hope than shine after dark times. The show needs this if it wants to be good again and not just become another thing on TV that’s wasting away. 

The characters deserve better, the actors deserve better, and we deserve better.

I’m so close to quitting before we even get to what Angela might be able to do, and you don’t know how sad that makes me. It doesn’t matter that all of this is fiction; it’s such a big part of who I am at this point, and to have it screwed around with by someone who clearly doesn’t give a shit is something I still don’t understand, and I’m not even as critical about TWD as some people are! I can overlook a lot, find enjoyment in certain things that might otherwise be bad or annoying, and like… I don’t even know if I have an episode that I hate. I’m just done with wondering about what we could’ve gotten if things had gone differently. I still really wish they will, but it’s up in the air at this point.

So… Please, 8b, don’t burn that final straw. I want to tune in for s9 with real interest and investment and excitement again, not just because I’m loyal to the characters that are still standing.

Sorry.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

TWD 10x15: The Tower - First Thoughts

The episode is SOOO good! How did everyone like it? It also really sucks because we won’t get the next episode for a while. It definitely feels like a transition to the big battle. And it literally ends on the steps of Grady. I swear they’re doing this to us on purpose. Like the last shot in the episode is Beta showing up at the hospital with the horde and it shows a shot of the exact door Daryl carried Beth out of! Gaw!

But there’s TONS of good symbolism the spoilers, of course, missed.

***As always, spoilers for 10x15 abound below. Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned!***

Symbol #1: Negan walks into the hospital with…a possum. That stuff he’s cooking? It’s possum stew. No lie. They draw attention to it several times. Recap: possums like to “play dead,” so it’s an apt metaphor for Beth seeming to be dead, but not being, and rising up to live again at some point. There are only two times I can remember seeing the possum symbol: at the moonshine shack, and then Daryl shot one when they first got to Alexandria. Definitely a Beth symbol.

So here’s the thing. I think the possums represent the coming death fake out in a particular arc. So the one at the moonshine shack obviously represented Beth.

I think the one Daryl killed outside Alexandria represented Glenn’s death fake out. (Remember, it knocked over some garbage cans; and Glenn slid underneath a garbage can.) 

I’m sort of missing one. I’m thinking there must have been one around Rick in S8, but we missed it, or at least I don’t remember it.

In the other two cases, we saw one the season before the death fake out happened. S4 for Beth, and her fake out happened in S5. S5 for Glenn, and his fake out happened in S6. So there must have been one around Rick in S7 or S8. So, this possum really may be to represent Zeke’s death fake out, which will probably come next season. But, the tie to Beth is clearly there. And, Glenn survived his death fake out, so…

Cats:

At first, I was really confused about the cats. I don’t mean symbolically. The symbolism around them is resurrection-oriented. 9 lives and such. What I mean is, the stuff going on with them in the episode was extremely weird and random. Carol pets Dog (which, btw, happens once, for all of 3 seconds; that’s it. Yes, that’s sarcasm because the spoilers were extremely weird about that point) and she says, “he’s keeping all the cats away.”

Why would stray cats leave because Dog was there, or because TF moved into the hospital. And why would they care whether the cats stayed or not? And you could argue it was just a joke or something to say (which we know the writers don’t do anyway) but they keep mentioning it.

Lydia later pets a cat and Judith says, “I thought all the cats left.” And there’s the cat that crosses Beta’s path. Which, btw, they give no indication that he followed that cat to the hospital. I suppose he MIGHT have followed it, but what I could tell, he saw the cat, but kept going. It wasn’t until a little later that his horde turned toward the hospital. So either the source misunderstood, or if it turns out to be true, it’s just more proof that the spoiler source knows things that aren’t actually shown in the episode. At the very least, I wouldn’t have thought Beta followed the cat to the hospital if I hadn’t read it in the spoilers. And we don’t see the cat again when the horde reaches the hospital.

Anyway, obviously the cats are symbolic. But wasn’t even sure how they were justifying putting them into the episode at all. The plot around them wasn’t making sense to me. Plot-wise, I’m still unsure.

However, while making the episode edit, something finally occurred to me. I was taking some screenshots to make an edit for the episode and thought I might include a picture of one of

the cats, since they have such a huge presence in this episode. I was staring at this one 

(which incidentally I didn’t end up using, LOL) and something occurred to me. Lydia is wearing pink here. Pink = Beth.

It kind of came together for me all at once. Lydia = Beth because of the pink. Beth tamed Daryl. Daryl = cat, because Joe Claimer called him a cat in S4. But Lydia also kind of tamed Daryl because parenting her is what gave him purpose again. So, I think all the cats in this episode represent Daryl in some way. It just makes some of the weird lines about them make more sense.

For example, in this particular shot, Lydia is playing with the cat and Judith walks up to her and says, “I thought all the cats left.“ Lydia replies, “not this one.“ Later in the episode, Judith tells Daryl she was afraid he would leave if she told him about Michonne. He tells her that he won’t. So, he’s the only cat that didn’t leave.

I had to think about what the line about Dog keeping the cats away meant. Because taken literally, with Dog =ing Beth, that would mean that Beth kept Daryl away. And obviously that doesn’t make any sense. But then it occurred to me that Joe Claimer was specifically talking about Daryl being an “outdoor” cat, or a wild cat. So, Beth keeps Daryl tame and civil, rather than having him become wild.

Lydia has had a similar civilizing influence on him. I’m not entirely sure what to make about the cat crossing Beta’s path, but I half think it might be a death omen for Beta. In terms of Halloween symbolism, a black cat crossing someone’s path is a bad omen. And I’ve always believed that Daryl will kill Beta, just as Carol killed Alpha, even if she didn’t actually deal the killing blow. She orchestrated it all. But I’m not positive about the cat that crosses Beta’s path. We’ll have to wait and see what comes of it.

@wdway​ added these thoughts:

“The reason Daryl and Beth work so well together, the reason you could say they complete each other is that they have a sweetness, a kindness that is about being able to understand another person’s pain. Even though they might not have had the same experience themselves.

Beth understood Daryl's past life, the pain he had as a child growing up just as Daryl understood her loss of a beloved father, something he never experienced himself. They both are extremely strong people and it's not about the ability to physically fight, it's about not losing themselves in the fight. Beth realized that in Daryl, their souls share the same heartbeat. Daryl was drawn to Lydia because just like her he had been a child of abuse and he recognizes that her heart beats a similar rhythm as Beth's. I would like to point out the fact that the one-eyed dog in Alone was a stray. Beth (dog) and Daryl (cat) are both strays. The only true home either of them will ever have will be with each other.”

In short, Beth = dog, Daryl = cat. Yet another way they complement one another.

More evidence of this:

Judith is SO Beth in this episode. I know we already knew that because…obviously. But there were like 16 things aside from the obvious hat/braid/trained by Daryl. She was up in the tower/Grady/ hospital and sort of snuck out to be with Daryl. He trains her, of course. After he kills the whisperer woman, she gets upset that he just leaves her there. She doesn’t actually say the word burial, but she says, “we’re just gonna leave her?” and is obviously upset they aren’t burying her or returning her remains to her people.

There’s a line where Daryl tells Judith to go back to the tower and she says, “No. I hate it up there. It smells like cat pee.” It reminded me of the line Daryl said in 5x11: “This barn smells like horseshit.”

The scene between Daryl and Judith was STELLAR. Like when she gave him the vest, it’s sweet and beautiful and SO Full of Beth. Judith literally gets mad at him for leaving that woman behind. (It’s important to note that Judith worries the woman might have a family that is looking for her—also a Beth parallel. I doubt that, as the woman is a Whisperer and didn’t show any signs of being chummy with them. Plus she told Daryl that she left Beta anyway. But I think it’s sweet that Judith thinks that. She’s just young and naïve enough, and has grown up with people who care about her, to think everyone must have a family who would look for them.) Anyway, she says, “I can’t believe you just left her there. In a ditch. What if you were lost? And no one could find you…?” Sound like what happened to Beth?

He asks where all this is coming from and she tells him she talked to Michonne. And this is interesting. She does not tell him about the possibility of Rick. As the spoilers said, she just says Michonne went to help people who needed it. She says she didn’t want to tell Daryl and when he asks why, she says, “Because I was afraid you’d leave, too.”

I think this is 1) the answer to whether or not Daryl will leave to go find Rick. Even if he found out now, I don’t think he would. He knows Judith needs him too much. And 2) I think that’s why she didn’t tell him about Rick. She had really no reason to think he’d leave to go help Michonne unless Michonne actually asked him to. But I think Judith instinctively knows that if he knew about Rick, he might have. Just really interesting.

But then it gets better. Judith has an “it doesn’t matter” line. (Beth.) When she asks Daryl to promise not to leave and he says no, she gets upset. My favorite line was when he said, “Nothing will take the place of someone you love being gone. But that doesn’t mean that everything that follows will break your heart.” He’s SO thinking about Beth there. I mean, he’s been training Judith, she talks about leaving people behind, and not being able to get back to one’s family. Then there’s the “gone” reference. Remember, he literally told Rick that Beth was “just gone.”

And actually, we get at least three different references to the “old days,” meaning S4/S5 in this episode. There was this one (the one Daryl loved who is gone). When he’s trying to radio Michonne and she doesn’t answer, he’s talking about how being on the run like this, outside the walls, reminds him of the old days and the old gang. The last time they were on the run was between the prison and finding Alexandria. In other words, when everything happened with Beth. And the third one is when Kelly is talking to Carol. She says everyone has heard stories of things Carol did in the old days. Before. I can only imagine she’s referring to Terminus. So yeah. Lots of reminders of that time.

I think the whole Princess arc in this episode was a Beth parallel. That gets into Detail territory, so I’ll go over that on Wednesday. Carol and Connie’s scenes were kind of interesting. Not particularly ground-breaking but setting something up. I’ll talk about them later, too.

That was most of the big stuff. But it totally blew my mind that one of the last shots of the episode was this one: guys, that’s LITERALLY the door Daryl carried Beth out of How can that be a coincidence?

There have been plenty of times that they’ve filmed in locations they used several seasons ago. But they make the place look so different in the episode that we don’t even recognize it. They usually have to tell us that it’s a familiar locale. For example, I remember at some point during S7 or S8 (don’t remember for sure) they said they’d shot some forest scene in the same place they’d shot where Sophia went missing in S2. Now, granted, most forest locales look similar, but my point is that they had to tell us that. Here, they’re not even trying to make it look different. They’re not showing us a different side of the building. This is the exact door from Coda. No way that’s not purposeful.

We REALLY think we’re going to see her in the finale. Which SUCKS because we don’t know how long it will be before we get to see it. But I really do think we will. I’m going to show you why tomorrow, even before I do the Details. It’s that important.

Stay tuned!

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Carl/Beth Entanglement Details: S4 Vs. S8

Okay, so here’s what I want to talk about today. In the past few days, I’ve posted both of these memes, and I’ve been promising a Carl/Beth post. (Btw, the Carl one has already gotten more than double the likes on IG that my pics usually get. I know that’s because of Carl’s bite, but still. People are obviously connecting with this.

I was actually going to do this post before the MSF aired, and I just didn’t get around to it. Now I’m kind of glad I didn’t. Now with confirmation of Carl’s bite, it’ll just be a little more concrete. I want to remind everyone of some early intersections between Carl and Beth symbolism, so it’s a little more obvious that Gimple always planned it that way, and that Beth has to come on the heels of Carl’s death. Here we go:

I originally wanted to talk about the parallels between the train tracks sites from the second edit. I’m going to change it a bit and talk more about Carl than Daryl. By the way, if you haven’t read my “Beth Greene was Never Gimple’s Sheriff” post, I’d advise you to do so. This will make a lot more sense if you have that as background.

So let’s talk about the structure of S4. I’ve already talked a lot about how the structure of various episodes in S4 foreshadowed future events but I’m going to talk about the overall structure of episodes. In 4x08, the prison went down, right? Remember that there were a ton of callbacks in 8x08 to the loss of the prison in 4x08. So if the two seasons are being paralleled, the two MSFs line up pretty well. S4 = loss of prison. It’s burned down. S5 = loss of Alexandria. It’s burnt down/blown up.

Then everyone was separated into small groups. Rick and Carl, later joined by Michonne were one. Beth and Daryl another. Tyreese and the girls, which Carl joins fairly quickly. And then Maggie/Sasha/Tyreese. Things are a little different here, but I would like to point out that that is the start of @thegloriouscollectorlady’s 4 Arcs for 4 Communities theory. She theorized that the groups would = living situations/leadership in the future, and she was right. (Mostly. Not all of it, especially Daryl’s, has been confirmed yet, but I believe it will be.) So Rick/Carl/Michonne = Alexandria. Carol = Kingdom. Maggie = Hilltop. We had a forth group in Glenn/Tara who were joined by Abe/Rosita and Eugene. We have a 4th group now in Aaron and Eugene, though neither of them were in S4 to be paralleled with. The odd one out is really Beth and Daryl, who obviously aren’t running a community on their own, but may at one point.

So then we have episode 4x09, from which the top picture, this one, 

was taken. (Ignore the arrows; they’re from a different meta and I was too lazy to retake the screenshot. ;D) Now, the reason I’m bringing this up is that the bottom picture was something they focused on in 8x06. In fact, Daryl rode past it on his bike, and I felt like it was a callback to S4.

So Rick and Carl leave the prison, and there is some interesting symbolism in the first place they go (pickles) but I want to focus on the house they stay in, because we have two major sequences that both foreshadow Beth’s arc.

The first is Rick. He lies down to sleep and falls into a semi-comatose state. Really, his body is just exhausted from the fight with the Gov, and he sleeps for more than 24 hours. But it’s kinda like he’s in a coma for a time, and Carl really can’t wake him up. Then we even have a scene at night where Carl things Rick has died and turned because his breathing is so ragged. Carl tries to shoot him, but doesn’t. (And thank goodness, because Rick isn’t really dead.) But the point is that Rick is in a coma and no one can wake him. At one point, TF (just Carl in this case) thinks he’s turned, even though he hasn’t. And specifically does NOT shoot him. All things we believe happened with Beth.

Oh, and Rick has a Beth-ish wound:

Then there’s Carl himself. He goes out on his own and leads walkers away from the house. This is where we get the visual parallel above to where he was bitten. So that sequence where he falls down and the walkers pile on him in S4 was a foreshadow of that happening in S8, only then he was actually bitten, where in S4 he obviously was not.

Then he goes into the pudding house. The first room he goes into, he sees a bird cage, much like the ones we saw in Beth’s cell in 4x01. It’s open, though, and there’s a dead bird on the floor beside it. 

I have no doubt at all that that represents Beth, the song bird, being “killed” when she tries to escape her cage (Grady). And that by itself doesn’t suggest resurrection so much as just death.

However, as we go along, some interesting things start to happen. Carl opens a door and walker lunges at him. Carl falls onto his back but gets his gun and shoots the walker in the head. He shoots it in the EXACT same place Beth is shot: left side of the forehead. The walker face plants in front of him. For about a second and a half. Then it jumps back up again. Carl looks shocked that it didn’t die.

I mean, that alone should tell everyone that Beth’s wound wasn’t fatal. Or at the very least that it didn’t transect her brain stem to keep her from turning. If it was possible for that particular wound to do so, this walker wouldn’t have jumped back up. So it’s both proof that her injury was survivable AND a foreshadow of her living. Because right after Carl sees the dead bird and the cage, he sees a walker jump back up after sustaining the exact injury that Beth did.

Then he goes into the nautical-themed bedroom. This is where we get all kinds of crazy S7/S8 symbolism. Carl uses a lamp from the front yard to fight the walker (Lamp Theory). The nautical theme is ALL over the bedroom (Oceanside). There’s a yellow bat in the background (Negan). And of course in fighting the walker, he loses a shoe. (Lost shoes/feet theory). Oh, and after he gets out, we see a pair of yellow-handled scissors by his foot. (Yellow = escape/Beth’s yellow polo/opening credits flash; scissors = what she stabbed Dawn with.)

So all these crazy symbols come together in this scene. Then Carl eats his pudding and returns to Rick. The next day, Rick wakes up from his coma alive and well and everything is okay.

So here’s what I’m taking away from all this symbolism. First off, Carl could = Beth here, because he heads out on his own and has to save himself/take care of himself, which he does.

But as far as Carl’s arc is concerned, I feel like this represents him being the sheriff, being an adult, and making his own decisions. Remember they said twice that this was “his show.” This sequence in S4 represented his show. And only after the sequence that foreshadowed him being bitten did we see the dead song bird coupled with resurrection. (Meanwhile in 8x08, we saw a burning phoenix.)

On top of that, it wasn’t until after he escaped from the walker in the nautical room that Rick (also a parallel of Beth) awakened. (Of course in terms of the plot, we think she awakened a long time ago, but TF and the GA don’t know that. So I guess maybe it’s better to say that she’ll appear.)

So this foreshadows that sometime after Carl was bitten, at a time in the story when both Oceanside and Negan are in play, Beth will appear. And even more than that… remember yesterday I talked about the last stand at Hilltop, and most of us have thought for several weeks that Aaron and Enid will run into her at Oceanside. So I said maybe she would come with the Oceansiders to save TF’s bacon from Negan during the last stand. I almost feel like we have that foreshadowed here. The details, of course, could be very different than I’m thinking (they usually are) but think of it this way.

Carl (Beth proxy) defeats the walker inside the nautical/Oceanside room, suggesting victory will come from Oceanside. The bat in the room (Negan) is yellow, as are the scissors outside the door. Beth used scissors to stab Dawn, which ultimately led to her defeat, and Negan has lots of parallels to Dawn. At the very least, Negan is Daryl’s Dawn. (Is everyone following? I know this is a lot. Sorrynotsorry.) So I feel like the message here is that help will come from Oceanside specifically to defeat Negan, in the same way Dawn was defeated.

In fact, since Beth was kind of sacrificed to defeat Dawn and the system at Grady, and since Carl is the one in this scene, I think it shows that Carl in a way was sacrificed to defeat Negan. Gimple was super weird about what will happen next, but he keeps saying that Carl’s death will play into the story in 8b and people will understand why it was necessary. 

So maybe it’s something about Siddiq? Such that if Carl hadn’t made that sacrifice and brought him into Alexandria, TF wouldn’t have won against Negan? (And keep in mind that in the books, Siddiq has ties to Oceanside, so it really could all work together.) I don’t know. Just spit balling here.

But are we all seeing how this was foreshadowed in S4? And this sequence was many episodes before 4x16 where the hat was actually placed on Beth’s head. As I said many weeks ago now, Carl was never Gimple’s sheriff. Beth was always going to be the future.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that the shot in 5x16 of Carl and Judith looking at the music box in front of the Morse Code poster makes a lot more sense now. We always just thought that was about Beth and the music box, but it was more than that. They could have shown anyone with the music box. Someone closer to Beth, like Maggie or Daryl, might have made more sense anyway. But they went with Carl, and that was obviously purposeful.

In the season where Beth disappeared, and TF found a new home, they showed the music box singing, I think, to symbolize that she was still out there. But once the “new home,” including the Morse Code poster, which we saw being destroyed as Rick and Negan fought, was gone, then Carl would die. He’s even wearing his hat in this scene. And the new sheriff (symbolized by the music box) would appear.

In a way, it makes more sense than ever that the music box disappeared after S5. The last time we saw it was during the last season Beth appeared in. That’s because this arc that’s been running ever since wasn’t about her and wasn’t something she would ever be a part of. This was TF at Alexandria. We probably won’t see the music box again until she reappears, and her time as sheriff begins.

So what does that mean for 8b? I’ll give you a few possibilities I’ve thought of. Keep in mind, this is all just conjecture and could very well turn out to be wrong.

Aside from the Oceansiders showing up with Beth to save the day, which I think may not happen until the season finale, I’m still hoping that we, the audience, will see her earlier than that.

I think 8x09 is a possibility, but I’m really on the fence over whether they’d have her return in the same episode in which Carl actually dies. That might get some hate from the audience if they feel like one character is being exchanged for another and Carl’s death isn’t getting the respect it deserves. So on the one hand, I would think they’d stay away from that. But on the other hand, some of the stuff Gimple has said suggests that maybe something about Carl’s death might actually usher in the change in the story in a way that the audience will like and connect with. So maybe we will see her in 8x09? I can see it going either way and honestly don’t know which is more likely.

Returning to what I said at the beginning about 4x08 and 8x08 lining up, the parallels with Carl and Rick happened right after, in 4x09, so that suggests maybe we will see her very soon. But on the other hand, predicting things like that has never worked out especially well for us. I don’t think Gimple always lines up episodes exactly. I think he purposely shies away from that so things aren’t predictable. 4x10 was Inmates, where we had Beth’s diary voice over, and a backward progression that definitely foreshadowed some things. (Details here)And then Bethyl happened in 4x12/13. So you see what I mean? It really could fall anywhere and almost every episode is a possibility.

One scenario that occurred to me is that perhaps they’ll parallel season 5. I would actually really love it if this scenario happened, but again, it’s just conjecture on my part. So in 5x08, Beth seemed to have died, but actually didn’t, right? So in that MSF, much like this one, we didn’t have any major character deaths. The death came in 509, with Tyreese. Similarly, Carl will die in 8x09. The thing about 5x09 is that Beth was in that episode as a part of Tyreese’s death hallucination. And that episode was so bizarre and abstract, with a ridiculous amount of foreshadowing and Beth symbolism in it. (Details here.)

So I was thinking that maybe in a similar fashion, all of 8x09 will be Carl in the throes of death, just as 5x09 was for Tyreese. But maybe instead of a hallucination, we’ll see flashbacks from the missing 17 days after Grady, and Beth will be in them? It would be an awesome parallel. And again, no idea if it will be this way. It might work out completely different, but I’m kind of hoping. If that WERE the case, Beth would be there, but we might not necessarily find out she’s alive. They would just be flashbacks.

(And I did draw a parallel between the slide show in 5x09 and Michonne’s line about it being Carl’s show. Just saying.)

So that made me consider that in 5x10, the music box woke up. If they were to parallel S5, maybe we’ll finally see her in ep 10. I’d never seriously considered ep 10 as a possibility. A finale or MSF just seemed more likely. But that would be super-interesting as far as the music box is concerned, wouldn’t it?

In short, I have no idea when she’ll appear, but I wanted to point out/reiterate some of these entanglements. As I’ve said many times now, these are things we noticed years ago, but just didn’t understand the full extent of what they meant. As the seasons pass and the foreshadowing is fulfilled, we can see that it was planned and foreshadowed this way from the beginning. Now all we have to do is sit back and wait.